Once again I am left virtually speechless but the sheer blind rage in this election. The moral leaders of the Church in the Valley in Leakey, Texas felt that it was appropriate to post this sign reading: “Vote for the Mormon, not the Muslim! The capitalist, not the communist!” Putting aside the violation of its tax-exempt status, church leaders thought nothing of the lesson given their children in making such false and prejudicial statements. It shows the dangerously thin line that separates the faithful from the hateful in our society.
Of course, in addition to repeating the false statement about President Obama’s religion, the sign adds the common and equally ridiculous mantra about his being a communist. A term that, when pressed, seems beyond definition for some of these protesters.
The Church in the Valley headed by Pastor Ray Miller (who came up with the idea of the sign) sees nothing wrong is defining people primarily by their alleged faith — whether it is falsely Obama as a Muslim or Romney as a Mormon.
Equally disgusting is the response of a least one local businessman who insist that the controversy will be good for business. Damon White is quoted as saying “I love it. Even if it’s bad attention, bring it on. Come to town, see what it’s about.” Well, Mr. White, we certainly now know what you are about. It does not matter if it is unfair, prejudicial, and disrespectful, it is good for business. Now there is a lesson for the children of Leakey, Texas.
Notably, on its website, the Church proclaims “We believe our faith should be visible in concrete forms and models of personal and social behavior.” That model appears to include insulting and prejudicial statements about people with whom you disagree as well as use of false claims to achieve your political ends. I don’t recall the passage where Jesus Christ led the smear campaign against Pontius Pilatus. Indeed, I seem to recall something out “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” Perhaps but it does not sum up Paster Miller or the good people of the Church of the Valley.
Source: KENS as first seen on Reddit.
“Take you meds, Gene. Go to sleep. When you can conduct yourself rationally and intelligently, maybe we’ll talk.”
Awwww. You think that’s a counterargument or a cogent rebuttal when it is neither. That’s adorable, Enoch.
The law says what the law says and your previous suppositions were weak, unintelligent, based in ignorance and delivered in a framework of irrational fear.
You’re a real piece of work.
Just not a very good one.
Just a general query: what is “just compensation” for a dollar taken, and where is it written?
OMG this is no surprise, unfortunately. Since the beginning of the recorded history the religions have been excuses for the worst human behavior imaginable. Of course there is no respect for others; the “others” are not doing what god wants them to do! Of course there is no respect for truth; the religions define their own “truth” and impose it wherever, whenever and however they are permitted to do so without big negative consequences. NO MATTER WHO WINS THIS ELECTION THAT CHURCH MUST LOSE ITS TAX EXEMPTION. We should all demand that response from the next administration. Otherwise taxpayers are PAYING for this crap. I pay for enough crap without having to chip in for this!
Enoch,
Your complete and utter lack of knowledge and/or disregard of legal principles, jurisprudence in general and what the law actually says is quite impressive. Arguments from ignorance are always so amusing.
“As for tax exemption… the needful right of Congress to levy taxes notwithstanding, a tax is not just or proper simply because it’s lawful. Power, to lie in the people’s hands, should never be allowed to levy taxes by taking.”
The 5th Amendment states:
“No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
The highlighted section is known as the Takings Clause. So clearly takings are legal if just compensation is made. That historically the courts have had a difficult time interpreting the boundary lines of what constitutes a taking is simply a matter of jurisprudence being an evolutionary and accumulative process. Taxes are not so much the issue as whether or not and when regulations constitute a taking and this is a matter unsettled in American jurisprudence.
“In one construction of democracy, “realism” and “pragmatism” trump principle – or it can, given a majority. Imagine you had the prettiest daughter in town. Would you want the majority to be able to make her a town’s common property?”
Given that your definitions of technical terms is already demonstrably suspect, I’m going to skip over that and go directly to the Constitutional fact that no one’s daughter (nice appeal to emotion by the way, did you get fries with that logical fallacy?) is going to be anyone’s property held in common or otherwise.
The 13th Amendment states:
“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation”
These laws of enforcement apply to the states and equally to all citizens via the 14th Amendment.
Once again, you clearly are talking about something you don’t understand.
Are you a self-identifying Libertarian by any chance?
Take you meds, Gene. Go to sleep. When you can conduct yourself rationally and intelligently, maybe we’ll talk.
Sorry, Let me try that site again.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/21/3060738/blimp-like-craft-with-romney-ad.html
“It shows the dangerously thin line that separates the faithful from the hateful in our society.”
*****
A line of separation? I’ve witnessed many of the faithful in this country who are hateful. For such people religion is a ruse of holiness.
There seems, these days, to be a direct correlation between the professed level of faithfulness and the projected level of hatred and intolerance.
I wonder if Gandhi was talking about this minister when he said this.
“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians.”
One other interesting note…
I wonder if Romney outsourced this to WalMart, China or a
smart Republican?
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/21/3 … ey-ad.html
Let’s see where the 501 exemptions stay if Romney is elected……
Hi Enoch, welcome to Earth. We have a country here called “America” and this country has been doing pretty well for the last couple of hundred years. That country operates (or more correctly now, operated) under a shared belief that we all benefit when we all share a bit of the fruits grown while living under this system to make the system work even better. The results were pretty amazing. For relatively tiny contributions we got the greatest highway system, the best free education, world class universities, relatively low poverty rates, easy social mobility and generally a very good existence. About 30-40 years ago the forces of greed and stupidity managed to propel the idea that this tiny fraction being paid was not the cost of entrance to the DisneyWorld country but theft. The result of the rise of this greed and stupidity was a huge reduction in the “entrance fee” with the associated plunge toward third world status we can see around us (crumbling roads, failing schools, higher levels of poverty). And even this greatly reduce cost is still viewed as theft by the truly backwards.
But tell us about this planet you come from. The one where ones daughter could be taken from them based on the whims of others. For instance, what color is th sky in your world?
Frankly,
I didn’t say anything against shared contributions (from my original post) “[…] for a[ny] good that is not unconditionally, universally and equally available to all.”
With what part of that do you disagree, and on what foundation?
I am a liberal democrat and a native Texan. I see the sad state of politics in Texas as the last gasp of the old conservatives. Our state will soon be a “minority” majority state. This change is inevitable and I for one welcome it. I hope the next generation will govern better than this one.
Enoch:
doesnt that depend on whether or not the rule of law is an absolute and benevolent toward the rights of the individual?
Bron – In some constructions of democracy, voting to “nationalize” (a metaphor – let’s not get carried away, anyone) your daughter would BE the rule of law. Rights? If we don’t at least pretend that they descend to us via our Creator (again, just a metaphor for natural rights), these are dictated by the majority, too.
Obama will win over forty percent of the vote in Texas…. better than he will do in the many even redder states due to the diversity of the state. A white democrat is a rarity except in the cities. The birthers and racists have been attacking him on these grounds ever since he first ran for president, and it has been a nationwide effort. Donald Trump doesn’t live in Texas. Neither does Orly or Sean Hannity.
Enoch,
Here we differ: Speaking of principles and Constitutional protections is nice and I support them. But reality departs from both of them. The situation in the USA liken neither of them. Your reasoning is thus based on
hypotheticals, not reality.
The realists, shall we call them that–I am not well-informed—deny us the chance to speak unhindered. They dominate through money, leeched from us, to propagate their propaganda.
To revere and defer to them based on their “holdings” is idiotic and destructive of what little democracy we have left. Regarding democracy, it appears now to be a moot question with the situation we have now.
Why did Obama do such a bad first debate? Because he had just got the word that the plutocrats had made their choice: and it was not him that was chosen. And what we say is irrelevant. Vote fraud will fix what propaganda doesn’t.
No principles have any importance now. Survival is what counts. And we won’t under the plutocrats.
Democracy? How do you mean that?
In one construction of democracy, “realism” and “pragmatism” trump principle – or it can, given a majority. Imagine you had the prettiest daughter in town. Would you want the majority to be able to make her a town’s common property?
Well, it is in Texas where ignorance and stupidity are worn as badges of “honor.” Explanation enough.
Judas Iscariot was of the in crowd remember.
The right to speak freely includes the right to speak stupidly – and this isn’t a case of shouting, “fire!,” in a crowded theater. Be disgusted by the message, but it’s a little hypocritical to claim we have any “inalienable” rights, and then complain when someone uses one.
As for tax exemption… the needful right of Congress to levy taxes notwithstanding, a tax is not just or proper simply because it’s lawful. Power, to lie in the people’s hands, should never be allowed to levy taxes by taking. Government should never have the power to take private property without just compensation and for a good that is not unconditionally, universally and equally available to all.
Far be it for me, as an agnostic to comment, but morals and ethics have even we agnostics.
It is amazing how far the church has left Jesus teachings behind them. But perhaps the church was not in fact created with that purpose in mind. Perhaps it is but power and politics at any price that count with churches.
Ignorance is no excuse for bad ethics. That should come with mother’s milk, whatever your religion, ir- or otherwise.
I remember hearing an interview with high school kids in Texas. The subject was religion in the classroom. One cheerleader thought it was fine as long as it was Christian and not one of those ‘foreign’ religions.
How do kids that age get so closed minded? I think this Pastor says it all.
It does make one wonder how someone that ignorant, that oblivious to the world in which we live manages to breath without instructions. I don’t mind political disagreement but levels of stupidity this deep make me pray for a giant meteor.