Once again I am left virtually speechless but the sheer blind rage in this election. The moral leaders of the Church in the Valley in Leakey, Texas felt that it was appropriate to post this sign reading: “Vote for the Mormon, not the Muslim! The capitalist, not the communist!” Putting aside the violation of its tax-exempt status, church leaders thought nothing of the lesson given their children in making such false and prejudicial statements. It shows the dangerously thin line that separates the faithful from the hateful in our society.
Of course, in addition to repeating the false statement about President Obama’s religion, the sign adds the common and equally ridiculous mantra about his being a communist. A term that, when pressed, seems beyond definition for some of these protesters.
The Church in the Valley headed by Pastor Ray Miller (who came up with the idea of the sign) sees nothing wrong is defining people primarily by their alleged faith — whether it is falsely Obama as a Muslim or Romney as a Mormon.
Equally disgusting is the response of a least one local businessman who insist that the controversy will be good for business. Damon White is quoted as saying “I love it. Even if it’s bad attention, bring it on. Come to town, see what it’s about.” Well, Mr. White, we certainly now know what you are about. It does not matter if it is unfair, prejudicial, and disrespectful, it is good for business. Now there is a lesson for the children of Leakey, Texas.
Notably, on its website, the Church proclaims “We believe our faith should be visible in concrete forms and models of personal and social behavior.” That model appears to include insulting and prejudicial statements about people with whom you disagree as well as use of false claims to achieve your political ends. I don’t recall the passage where Jesus Christ led the smear campaign against Pontius Pilatus. Indeed, I seem to recall something out “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” Perhaps but it does not sum up Paster Miller or the good people of the Church of the Valley.
Source: KENS as first seen on Reddit.
Bron – Good morning.
A correction. I did not give you the case #. However, you were right: I have nothing to hide. That case # is: 20100000514. Charges were originally filed in NJ Superior Court, Hunterdon County, NJ.
That case took almost 18 months to resolve. On the misdemeanor I was ultimately in the dock for, the State faced an unpleasant choice: Heller/McDonald affirmed the right to bear arms, and the Court defined any weapon traditionally carried as an “arm,” including knives, leaving the States to regulate those it deemed necessary to regulate for public safety. NJ regulates a limited menu of edged weapons by statute, and mine was not among the offerings. The Raritan Township municipal prosecutor wanted to toss the hot potato, and recused himself on the pretext of having represented my wife in a civil personal injury action. The case then went to Hillsborough Township, where, after 17 months, the State had failed to produce discovery – in the instant case, something that should have been as simple as simple could have been.
I argued that the witness’s information respecting my possession of a knife failed to meet the burden of probable cause for a police stop, search and arrest: a) insofar as the knife in question was not one of those regulated by legislature (without belief that the knife I possessed was prohibited by law, simple possession is not criminal); b) that there was no allegation of conduct other than possession on which to stop and detain me; and, c) that the exercise of a Constitutionally guaranteed right is lawful on its face, absent some controlling law (e.g. permitting for a rally or march). Had my argument succeeded at trial or on appeal, a precedent would have been set that the NJ AG’s office did not want set, preventing State and local police from finding a knife (in my case, but any unregulated “arm”/weapon generally) in a person’s possession adequate grounds for custody and subsequent searches, seizures, etc. Simply not producing discovery made the case go away, without prejudice.
As for herrings, when I was a boy, and my mother was still alive, people would say I “look[ed] just like” her, that “the resemblance is uncanny”. Doubtful. I’d hazard to guess that no one would ever have mistaken me for my mother. Nevertheless, looking at old pictures of her, there is, in fact, a strong resemblance: there could be no doubt that I was my mother’s son – nor that I was her son, which gender distinction (at the very least) made any thought of mistaking one for the other impossible.
I found myself asked to accept that resemblances allow for mistaken identities. Perhaps, some do – but, as in the example of my mother and me (by no means a unique example), certainly not all, or even most. As long as anyone is going to pursue the false argument that a resemblance must necessarily permit mistaken identities, I will deem that the “red herring” (“ablenkungsmanöver,” as someone else had it) is there by permission, and I will let the hounds loose to follow it as far afield as they like.
OTOTOTOTOTOTOTOT
================
Cross-post on the election on the Turkey blog.
There, is also my report from my young Turkish woman resident in Sweden, on her views.
” 29 Ono
1, October 23, 2012 at 7:41 pm
Evolution theory should be taught. I remember being taught that people thought the earth was flat. Laughable to think such ridiculous notions existed then and now!
30 idealist707
1, October 24, 2012 at 4:42 am
ONO,
You are so right.
It is also laughable to think that:
—-Romney would be a good president
—-that the onepercent will let us have more
Romney as Governor faced a massive demand for and supported Massachusett’s own Obamacare.
Now he wants to see the Natinal version of Obamacare cancelled.
He is owned, just like he owned the companies that he bought to slaughter for profit. And we know who owns him, and it is not the American people or its Constitution.”
by ambition—>my ambition
He obviously regards—–is obviously GeneH, not Enoch.
Reading for mistakes should always be undertaken by me.
GeneH. Hee, hee, hee. You skirted away from 3 points but ne’min.
Frances. Fortunately.
AY. Why should here be any different than most places. Even the best here have a bad day. And champ is not by ambition.
And GeneH still doesn’t get that it was he that introduce the comparison between eagles and vultures, not I. I compared gbk to a knight, well in advance of the front, with his lance on high. I did not compare him with an eagle—if that is GeneH’s implication.
His claim that I am fixated on biological byproducts is of course his privilege to deem, but I would reply no more than most. They together with phuck seem to rank high as America’s favorite word—as any viewer to evening shows can hear.
But admit an error? Have you ever seen him do it?
Delusional or whatever, it ain’t usual, if not mental.
Enoch perhsps was correct there. He obviously regards himself as alpha dog or de facto king, and no one dares challenge him. Have seen once recently, very mildly and short—and that is not Spinelli’s quote vs paraphrase bla bla.
GeneH has at least clarified that we don’t have a psychiatrist on board—only two well qualified psychologists. What other professions do we have in the house than a 3-season farmer who does timber in the winter?
AY? Frances? GeneH?
There are many here…..
Everyone’s entitled to their own deranged opinion.
id707,
“I did not misuse the metaphor”
If that’s what you want to think. If you did not misuse it though there would have been no reason to “except” gbk from it.
“I did not mention vicious. You did. I said that you kicked like a mule.”
Actually you did both (the following are your words):
“Your vicious attacks are simply a quick way to drive away those who come, fart at the banquet table and
expect applause.”
AND
“Hard to dislike someone who writes and reasons so well, but he kicks like a mule.”
See?
“Your arguments as usual, repeat as usual, are fallacious as they are completely irrelevant to the discourse from my side.”
Except I haven’t repeated myself once and none of my logic is fallacious.
“Giving you lessons in civility is also irrelevant, as you demonstrate for the ???-time.”
You are not the arbiter of civility.
“I won’t waste any breath on giving you compliments as you despise even them when they come from me, and are even well-earned by yourself.”
I’ve not only indicated that your criticism is irrelevant to me but why and more than once. If your criticism is of no value to me, why should your compliments be?
“Or maybe I shall, look at what water can do with the Himalayas now become the Appalachians, or the Colorado which produced the Grand Canyon. A thousand pharoahs could not do as well as simple raindrops.”
Whatever.
“And you are wasting your breath, as I shall not be driven away by you, nor by any other.”
Did I tell you to leave? Not once. If you cannot stand having your statements exposed to critical thought? Then perhaps you should keep them to yourself in your own best interests. Injecting comments into the commons is an action that in itself invites comments critical and otherwise. I have not once told you to leave. However, I’ll not censor myself because of your discomfort over the consequences of actions you take freely, namely introducing speech in to the commons.
“But you decide what you do.”
Yes. I do.
As to the rest of it? Your obsession with gaseous by-products of biology is most unusual but not uncommon. However it has nothing to due with your hyper-sensitivities to the consequences of free speech unless people challenging your statements somehow makes you personally gassy and that, once again, is not my concern but rather yours.
GeneH,
I did not misuse the metaphor. Those hovering were indeed vultures, and have proven themselves so previously.
Your bringing up eagles is/was irrelevant, whatever prompted it.
I did not mention vicious. You did. I said that you kicked like a mule.
Your arguments as usual, repeat as usual, are fallacious as they are completely irrelevant to the discourse from my side.
Giving you lessons in civility is also irrelevant, as you demonstrate for the ???-time.
I won’t waste any breath on giving you compliments as you despise even them when they come from me, and are even well-earned by yourself.
Or maybe I shall, look at what water can do with the Himalayas now become the Appalachians, or the Colorado which produced the Grand Canyon. A thousand pharoahs could not do as well as simple raindrops.
And you are wasting your breath, as I shall not be driven away by you, nor by any other. But you decide what you do.
Otherwise it would be a bore. And I suffer it poorly. So fart away when ready, Greddy.
What really gets me about the sign isn’t the ridiculous and simply untrue statement about Obama being Muslim, but rather the blatant endorsement of capitalism. I mean, it’s not as if Jesus ever threw money changers out of the temple or advocated taking care of the poor and the sick or anything like that. It’s well known he charged Lazurus 1,000 shekels and the use of his donkey for a month in exchange for razing him from the dead. Loaves and fishes? All you can eat, 10 shekels. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m working from the wrong notes. These notes are from a speech by Lugwig von Mises about the value of social programs and their privatization . . .
id 707,
One, I don’t care if you explicitly “excluded gbk from the metaphor” or not. Also, note the time stamps. I was writing the post about your sloppy use of metaphor at the time you posted your “exclusion”. I didn’t see your “exclusion” until I posted my comment. However that is irrelevant to the valid point I was making about your sloppy backwards use of metaphor. Just because you apologized or whatever that was to gbk doesn’t mean you didn’t make the error in the first place or invalidate my criticism of it.
Two, I truly and utterly don’t care about your schedule. I’ll post what I want when I want. If that presents a problem for you? It’s your problem. You simply don’t dictate my schedule on anything.
Three, I know how to read. Quite a bit better than you I might add so pardon me if I take a pass on your attempt to rehabilitate my skills.
Four, if you think any of that above to you was vicious? I do not think that word means what you think it means. I can be vicious if you’d like though. I sometimes take requests.
Carry on.
GeneH,
Disregarding your missing my apology for not explicitly excluding gbk from the metaphor, I re-read your lesson in GeneH’s school of argumentation.
Loved it. Very well done. U rite so purty.
Weaving in facts from the natural world (apex predators…) to anchor and enliven the metaphor discussion was “good”, mildly said.
Got a good site? Want to know the differences between bla and bla-bla.
No, that is beyond reach. Best to take the appetizers when they are offered here.
Hard to dislike someone who writes and reasons so well, but he kicks like a mule.
But I have perhaps figured out one reason. Your vicious attacks are simply a quick way to drive away those who come, fart at the banquet table and
expect applause. The quicker the better.
GeneH,
“You were in the vanguard today (yesterday), NOT one of the late-coming vultures. Not at all.” ID707
Satisfied? I know that the JTs has many comments, but read carefully next time. And I also admitted writing without considering who I must set caveats for to avoid splash effect. So that was included too.
GeneH,
I wish you would:
1) learn to read—I have already assured gbk that he was not on the vulture list. Very simple reason. He was there fighting Enoch early on, not hovering waiting for the final twitch. So as usual you can not read or you do it slovenly.
2) NOT wait until I have left the scene (6PM ET) to direct comments to me personally. Common courtesy or chivalry, call it what you will. It is difficult answering you when I have left the scene. You know by
this point that I live 6 hours earlier than ET.
Enoch:
It is so bizarre to me that you were arrested for carrying a knife. Not that I doubt what you say but someone in authority would call for arrest for that.
When I was in grade school nearly every boy carried a pocket knife to school. It was no different than wearing a belt to us or the school officials. Later, during high school, some students had shotguns on racks in their pick up trucks because they went hunting before school. Sometimes we would go shooting after class and kept the guns in the trunk. None of this was a big deal. Today, everything in this paragraph would cause a frenzy if school officials took notice. It is stupid in my view.
Bron,
I would have called it impeachment if the charge had gone to truthfulness in character, such as fraud or theft.
The old hardware store near my grandfather’s is still there, although in a new larger building and they are now an Ace affiliate. Back in the day, it was much like the one you describe – a hang out for the old timers. Today? Not so much. It doesn’t help that everyone who worked there when I was a kid is dead or retired though. The second generation now runs the daily show there and I know them all (went to school with them), but it’s still just not the same. For one thing the new building smells too new. The old building? It smelled like a hardware store had been there since the first cavemen started banging rocks together. But oh well . . . such is the passage of time and the nature of change.
Gene H:
After I posted that I thought that you could call it impeaching the character of the witness, which is a valid strategy.
If someone had me arrested for taking a knife out of my pocket, I would be a little po’ed. If I defended myself without a lawyer, I would probably give myself a pat on the back.
We had a great old time hardware store in the town I live in, the old timers would gather for coffee in the morning and swap BS. I went once in awhile and it was fun to hear the stories from “back in the day”. It is now a Latin supermarket Mercado Americano or some such name. But it is good to see immigrants taking advantage of the choices our system provides people.
And Tractor Supply does carry a lot of neat stuff. Then again, I find tool stores endlessly entertaining anyway. Any sort. It doesn’t matter. I spent a lot of time hanging around the local small town hardware store where my grandfather lived when I was a kid. It rubbed off on me.
Not in the slightest Bron. Look at Enoch’s response to that earlier post:
“Take you meds, Gene. Go to sleep. When you can conduct yourself rationally and intelligently, maybe we’ll talk.”
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/10/22/a-sad-sign-of-our-times/#comment-436945
He was anxious to talk about anything other than that valid criticism of the law around his earlier comments, he sputtered “your crazy” and then ran toward any topic but those. That was what Enoch did.
Now, technically speaking, gbk answered insult with insult based in fact by bringing the charge into it. It was about character but not in the impeaching sense. But since Enoch was proud rather than shamed by the charge, that tactic was nullified and moot. A technical foul at worst. But that does not change that Enoch has run with it (or any other irrelevant topic like Aramaic) rather than address substantive criticism(s).
Gene H:
gbk brought up Enoch’s legal trouble, Enoch didnt. As with most everything there are 2 sides and I was curious about Enoch’s side of the issue.
I dont think he is shrinking from your argument, I think he was answering my questions and he has to go to work. He answered it forthrightly and even gave the case number so he certainly isnt hiding anything. And he isnt putting up a red herring as gbk is the one who interjected the legal trouble. Is that a form of ad hominem?
they arrested you for that? That is ridiculous.
I would have been upset too, if some tech started reading me the riot act about a legal knife. I used to carry a knife for the work I did, a folding Buck knife with a 3 to 4″ blade. The company made us buy them and carrying was mandatory while on the job.
Needless to say, they would have really $hit themselves if you had put a .45 on the counter.
I love Tractor Supply, it is like a candy store.
We once had our water shut off for about 6 months during a drought when our well went dry [we have since had city water installed at great expense to us. so much for shared financial hardship in society. the only people paying are the ones who use the water even though my tax dollars are going for roads for everyone.], I went to TS and bought a 200 gallon water tank and a jet pump and ran the water through the outside spigot. It worked great and there was a yard hydrant the county installed next to a fire hydrant about a block away to service the local area. We put the tank on a trailer and filled up about 2 days a week.
We would pull up to the spigot and fill it up, we would see people using gallon milk jugs and those 5 gallon water cooler containers. What a mess that must have been. If the apocalypse ever comes, I am covered, my well is back, I can grow my own food, there are deer and squirrels in the woods, plenty of wood for heating. The only thing I need is a few hundred gallons of gas and a generator.