-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
Lindsey Stone, a 30-year-old Massachusetts native, has been terminated because of the photo (shown left) she posted on her Facebook page. Lindsey worked for LIFE (Living Independent Forever), a Cape Cod-based nonprofit organization that assists adults with learning disabilities. Jamie Schuh, who took the photo, and Lindsey’s supervisor at LIFE, was also terminated.
The two were on a company-paid trip to Washington D.C. when the photo was taken. The photo shows Lindsey mocking a sign at Arlington National Cemetery. The photo went viral and over 30,000 people liked a Facebook page set up to demand her firing. The two have apologized for the gag:
We never meant any disrespect to any of the people nationwide who have served this country and defended our freedom so valiantly.
While the photo obviously mocks the sign, many apparently thought it mocked those buried at Arlington National Cemetery. A sign demanding “Silence and Respect” deserves to be mocked. The wording of the sign projects a sense of arrogance and entitlement common to institutions that view themselves as sacred cows.
Adding the word “Please” to the sign would change the command to a request, a more sensible sentiment.
H/T: Mano Singham, Gawker, Boston Herald.
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The whole budget for the war machine should be transfered to development of alternative energy. The 21st Century demands better options.
My opinion is that the wars we ‘fight’ now are no longer nobel, they create more wars, create massive destruction of resources that are becoming scarce while there is more demand for them and any danger can be better addressed by international police work rather than hardware.
jmho.
As Don S said, our inability to find better solutions is shameful.
Bears repeating:
“No, Lindsey Stone’s Life Shouldn’t Be Ruined Over A Stupid Facebook Post
by Robert Johnson
http://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-stone-2012-11
….—-…..
More importantly, if Lindsey Stone wants to rip on the Tomb of the Unknowns, me, my service, or the hundreds of mutilated troops I served with at Walter Reed Medical Center, she should be able to do so without fear of retribution. Freedom like that is what we fought for, and respecting other opinions is part of what the military tried to teach all of us who served.”
——————-
Her actions as free speech, has been fought for and is protected.
It is in the spirit that will hopefully will lead to demands for correcting the problems we come each day to bemoan. Self-evident. We need more protesters, not fewer. That is the essence, nothing else.
Our dear regular Otteray Scribe, educated and experienced practictioner has done it again, as has been previously mentioned by me several times.
He has called someone a four year old, although he knows otherwise nothing about them. This is not professional, nor even worthy of being expressed here. It appears to be choler instead of reason.
Times change, society changes, norms and behaviours change.
But OS has not noticed. He expects that all will conform to his norms.
Well ,reactionary wishes are not usually granted. Tell that to the churches who want to institute a Christian nation.
We should pursue our defense of constitutional freedoms, protect Stone’s behavious or “speech” as it was expressed. AND protect ALL persons’ right to express without fear of physical attack, unlawful reprisal, offcial harassment, or the chill of drone attacks, execution without due process. etc.
Now, OS may say therefore what he will, but his comportment is as a four year old’s, not as an adult psychiatrist, whose mantle he displays so prominently and dishonors so clearly.
mespo727272:
Therefore, the question is: Based solely on the reference to Arlington National Cemetery, why is the objection justified?
Slowly gettng down through the pile.
GeneH,
Such nobel souning words on Roma’s fate. You rite purty.
Assume you have read lots.
So if Marcus Aurelius was the key figure there, then whose death here was the key event? Or do you maan we are still waiting. Enlighten please.
A refresher, for anyone who might be interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_National_Cemetery_mismanagement_controversy#cite_note-Jelinek_p.-1
Worth remembering:
FBI joins Army CID to investigate Arlington National Cemetery
June 29, 2011
By Rob McIlvaine
http://www.army.mil/article/60799/
(You’re right, justagurlinseattle: Superficial patriotism may very well be at an all time high.)
just:
“I wonder if, the name Arlington Natl. on the sign was blurred out… if people would have even KNOWN where this photo was taken????
my guess, is most likely NOT….”
*************************
Isn’t the fact that she made sure to publicize this shameless act with a specific reference to Arlington National Cemetery IN THE PHOTO precisely the basis for the objection? Most anywhere else she’d just be another employed moron.
I think Jim Croce had it right:
You don’t tug on superman’s cape
You don’t spit into the wind
You don’t pull the mask off an ole lone ranger
And you don’t mess around with [Arlington National Cemetery]
On the patriotism/heroism note vs the appropriate behavior aspect of this thread:
There is a big difference between “Hate the war, not the warrior and “Hate the war, love the warrior” One witholds individual judgment, based on intelligent reason. The other attributes individual, rote, judgment based on blind conformity. And many parallels therefrom.
More amateur psychology? Tough cookies I say. Better to be a recognized amateur (with the degrees and service to prove it) than a professional pedant.
When people come from supper they are filled with……
I was sleeping peacefully.
Junction, gotta go get my cataracts checked. Catch you later.
Like I said, they would and did pop up.
Sat themselves in a circlejerk and screamed: “Better your ass than ours, and it sure won’t be outs.” High class reasoners. Actually it is their morals which are rotten. Gene the logician, who uses a pure tool for impure purposes. OS, the psychotherapist who uses his skills in a similar fashion: He’s the doc who goes around the pary, saying at random “You look sick to me. And that’s a professional opinion”.
And Messpooo, who is a patriot, 9/11 trashed, who can’t see anything wrong with droning kids on a hillside herding goats. The figure from yesterday is 178 children to date, from babies to 14 year olds. “They should not be in a combat zone”, he says.
Since when did Pakistan become internationally declared a combat zone.
As for Cassblanca, never saw the flick, so the clip doesn’t bite me. So bite me Mark Esposito.
As for hero-worshp, forget it, ANC or elsewhere. It is fatal to the living.
Not many service men here JS. Not that we feel special for that.
But when someone tells his persomal story, we tend to believe him. …But not otherwise on other subjects. It is the same with this dog pack. They talk a lot only.
DonS:
“I’ll give good odds that if they mocked a poster saying ‘Screw Hippies” they might be given an attaboy and a promotion.
Or maybe a sign saying “Equal rights for Palestinians”
Or “union rights should be protected”
Or “Support Occupy Wall Street”
Our totally screwed up, undiscriminating attitude of allegiance towards anything military.”
In a nutshell.
anonymously..
That is a GREAT Article…
When this story hit Huffington Post, I found that many Veterans were
defending Lindsay Stone….
I wonder if, the name Arlington Natl. on the sign was blurred out… if people would have even KNOWN where this photo was taken????
my guess, is most likely NOT….
There are no graves in the photo… so, the way I see it, she is not flipping off dead soldiers…. So, how can one be mocking the dead if you are unable to see the actual graves….
You can NOT see the Tomb Of The Unknown….. so, the way I see it, she is not flipping off the Unknown…..
So… this line in the article is the one I disagree with….
“More importantly, if Lindsey Stone wants to rip on the Tomb of the Unknowns, me, my service, ”
Fact is….. had this sign been ANYWHERE else, she would have made the same joke…. This is where intent comes in…..
Had she shown flipping off the Tomb of the Unknown… or showing the rows of graves… then I could understand a BIT of the outrage….
BUT, being that she would have interacted with this wording on ANY sign, anywhere, we can not say that she was taking a stand against the military….
many people complain that we as a society have become too Politically Correct…. and yet, they were OUTRAGED over her Political IN-Correct photo….
lastly…. I would have FAR MORE respect if these same people were this outraged over Bills to fund Veterans Services properly, fail to get the votes….. that to me is OUTRAGEOUS…
We will always FIND the money to start the wars…..
BUT, when we are the asked to take care of those who fought for us…. Suddenly, we are unable to find any money… hell… we even refuse to raise taxes so that we can take care of our Military…..
That to me, is OUTRAGEOUS…..
WE had a President that sent our troops to war, without proper safety equipment….. without proper bulletproof vests…. without proper protection of the vehicles…. and YET, we did NOT fire this president…. NOPE… we REELECTED him…..
We have Military families who are on Food stamps…. That to me is OUTRAGEOUS…..
WE pay military contractors Billions…. and then our enlisted men are paid FAR less than the civilian contractors….. That to me is OUTRAGEOUS…..
So many Americans will click “LIKE” on a page to ruin a woman’s life over a photo…. stick yellow ribbon stickers on their cars to show their support of our military….
These things, in my opinion are Superficial Patriotism….
Where is the REAL Support of our Military????
When will we PROPERLY take care of these men and women who are willing to fight and die for our country?????
Gene H:
Agreed. I find it fascinating that the Romans outfitted an entire navy using a shipwrecked Carthaginian quinquereme that was reverse engineered. Then with little to no training except as provided by the Greek socii subdued the greatest navy in the world in less than 20 years.
mespo,
Reason and passion need not be divorced. Sometimes their ends are conjoined by happenstance. Such I think is the case with Carthage. They were not only the only major power in the region capable of standing up to Rome, they dominated the Mediterranean – a considerable thorn in the side of Roman military ambition in North Africa as it was much easier to move troops over sea than to march them around. On land, Carthage often had to rely on mercenary forces to bolster their ranks, but they truly had the Med wrapped up in no small part due to their superior ship design. Even Carthage took advantage of that in Hannibal’s campaign against Rome when he flanked them via Spain and came over the Alps. This doesn’t even mention the economic inconvenience to Rome of having their Mediterranean trade dampened by Carthaginian dominance of the sea lanes. Even as a purely rational decision, to attack Carthage made strategic sense from the Roman expansionist perspective.
I think it is not when reason and emotion coincide that presents the most problem for our species.
It is when emotion steers away from reasons goals and into the mist of the irrational.
Gene H:
Reason has its place on the throne of human endeavor now as in ancient Rome, but I suspect it was not mere reason that motivated the Romans to rebuild their navy not once but three times to take on the Carthaginians. And it’s hard to imagine cool contemplation caused Cato the Elder to end most every Senate speech regardless of topic with the admonition — Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.” (Moreover, I advise that Carthage must be destroyed …).
Lots more passion than aposiopesis going on there. And Carthage was ultimately destroyed.
The trend for ‘punking’ and p’owning has definitely gone too far in America as well. I agree she was acting stupid, unprofessional.
Thanks AY and OS youre spot on.
She says “This is just us, being the douchebags that we are, challenging authority in general. Much like the pic posted the night before, of me smoking right next to a no smoking sign.” This is the behavior of a teenager, not an adult. She has a lot to learn about how to behave in public/when representing her company.
Although the outcry against Stone was in part based on “[u]ncritical support of all things martial” – a trend which has indeed gone too far in this country, the reason for her firing was drawing negative publicity to her employer while on a company sponsored trip. What she did to draw that negative attention is secondary to the drawing of the negative attention itself. Genuine apology or not, if she were my employee, she’d have gotten fired too.
No, Lindsey Stone’s Life Shouldn’t Be Ruined Over A Stupid Facebook Post
by Robert Johnson
http://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-stone-2012-11
When we came across the photo yesterday of Lindsey Stone raising her middle finger at the Arlington National Cemetery, we decided to pass on making comment or adding to the viral storm around it. Gawker’s refreshingly reasonable question was, should the woman in the picture, Lindsey Stone, have her life ruined over the photo?
We figured she had enough on her plate without us adding to it.
When my reporter Geoff and I, both military veterans, closed the page, we rolled our eyes and got on with the day.
But as outrage grows — leading to posts across the Internet and Facebook groups devoted to getting her fired — I feel compelled to defend her.
Stone was at the cemetery on an office trip. She’s pretending to be neither silent or respectful next to a sign that demands she be both. As in, “Look it says I can’t. But I am.” I get it. I remember standing on the wall of a deep gorge in high school that had the words Do Not Stand here painted on it. I took a picture of my shoe beside them. These are silly, immature, little rebellions.
Stone also apologizes in a followup Facebook post: “Whoa whoa whoa… wait. This is just us, being the douchebags that we are, challenging authority in general. Much like the pic posted the night before, of me smoking right next to a no smoking sign. OBVIOUSLY we meant NO disrespect to people that serve or have served our country.”
More importantly, if Lindsey Stone wants to rip on the Tomb of the Unknowns, me, my service, or the hundreds of mutilated troops I served with at Walter Reed Medical Center, she should be able to do so without fear of retribution. Freedom like that is what we fought for, and respecting other opinions is part of what the military tried to teach all of us who served.
The blind adoration of the military and its personnel is getting creepy, and I’m talking from the inside looking out. While correcting the ugly way Vietnam veterans were treated is good, the over-compensation needs to stop. Putting on a uniform doesn’t change who you are, and questioning institutions and individuals, including the military and its troops, is good and healthy.
Aaron O’Connel, a Marine officer and instructor at the Naval Academy, had this to say about the topic in a NYT op-ed a couple weeks ago that definitely warrants a full reading:
Like all institutions, the military works to enhance its public image, but this is just one element of militarization. Most of the political discourse on military matters comes from civilians, who are more vocal about “supporting our troops” than the troops themselves. It doesn’t help that there are fewer veterans in Congress today than at any previous point since World War II. Those who have served are less likely to offer unvarnished praise for the military, for it, like all institutions, has its own frustrations and failings. But for non-veterans — including about four-fifths of all members of Congress — there is only unequivocal, unhesitating adulation. The political costs of anything else are just too high. …
Uncritical support of all things martial is quickly becoming the new normal for our youth. Hardly any of my students at the Naval Academy remember a time when their nation wasn’t at war. Almost all think it ordinary to hear of drone strikes in Yemen or Taliban attacks in Afghanistan. The recent revelation of counterterrorism bases in Africa elicits no surprise in them, nor do the military ceremonies that are now regular features at sporting events. That which is left unexamined eventually becomes invisible, and as a result, few Americans today are giving sufficient consideration to the full range of violent activities the government undertakes in their names.
Stone has genuinely apologized, and so has her father. Her employer also publicly responded, distancing itself from the situation. Maybe a little gracious dignity is in order and the lady should be taken at her word.
If anyone thinks that’s asking too much, check out the comments on the Fire Lindsey Stone Facebook page to see that just maybe this “Uncritical support of all things martial” has gone far enough.
I think DonS has a point. Call it amateur if you like. You’re wrong.