-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
Lindsey Stone, a 30-year-old Massachusetts native, has been terminated because of the photo (shown left) she posted on her Facebook page. Lindsey worked for LIFE (Living Independent Forever), a Cape Cod-based nonprofit organization that assists adults with learning disabilities. Jamie Schuh, who took the photo, and Lindsey’s supervisor at LIFE, was also terminated.
The two were on a company-paid trip to Washington D.C. when the photo was taken. The photo shows Lindsey mocking a sign at Arlington National Cemetery. The photo went viral and over 30,000 people liked a Facebook page set up to demand her firing. The two have apologized for the gag:
We never meant any disrespect to any of the people nationwide who have served this country and defended our freedom so valiantly.
While the photo obviously mocks the sign, many apparently thought it mocked those buried at Arlington National Cemetery. A sign demanding “Silence and Respect” deserves to be mocked. The wording of the sign projects a sense of arrogance and entitlement common to institutions that view themselves as sacred cows.
Adding the word “Please” to the sign would change the command to a request, a more sensible sentiment.
H/T: Mano Singham, Gawker, Boston Herald.
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Hubert Cumberdale:
The prominence of the sign in the photo suggests otherwise. Her position in the photo is such that what she’s doing, mock shouting and flipping the bird, is easily distinguishable. The fact that she is beside the sign. The fact that she is pantomiming exactly what the sign commands not to do. All of these facts indicate she is mocking the sign, not those interred at ANC. It is not reasonable to suggest otherwise.
Just wondering if those of you who don’t think her employer should have fired her would also be on the side of people like Gilbert Gottfried who was fired after he tweeted a horrible tweet just after the Japanese tsunami or Don Imus after his “nappy-headed hoes [or is it ‘hos’?]” comment, etc. There are SO MANY examples.
Everything thing you do or say or especially post on a social networking site can be taken as a reflection on the company you work for and they have every right to fire you rather than have to deal with the drama that comes along with something you did.
Again, you certainly have every right to say it or tweet it or tumblr it or facebook it or wordpress it or post a photo showing it, but you need to be aware that there can be consequences for your actions. And you SHOULD be called out for inappropriate behavior. Why should YOU get to say or do whatever you want without others getting to say or do what they feel in return? Free speech goes both ways.
Monica
NO, I do NOT think they should have been fired….
I DO NOT think that Comedians should be fired for being Provocative….
I EXPECT them to be Provocative…..
also, there are SO MANY times where people just MISUNDERSTOOD what was said….
Bill Maher was fired and lost his TV show Politically Incorrect after 9/11 when ALL he did was repeat was one of his guest said about the Hijackers not being cowards…
ALL he did was repeat what Dinish DeSouza said, and agree with him…
I was watching the show that night… and in NO WAY did I feel that what he said was that offensive…..
I find it rather amusing that so many people today complain about the world being too Politically Correct…. yet, the first breath of somebody saying something they FEEL is politically incorrect, they are kicking up a storm….
what I REALLY think, is that people want permission to be as racist or sexist as they would like to be out in the open, like Rush Limbough…
BUT, when they are offended by any tiny slight, they suddenly want EVERYBODY to be politically correct……
in my opinion, somebody making an immature joke too close to military graves is NOT all that offensive….
HOWEVER, when somebody is INTENTIONALLY hateful, that is when the line is crossed….
in the case of this incident…..
I just looked at the photo and asked myself if she would have taken that photo if she had found this sign someplace else…. and I came to the conclusion that YES….. she would have taken this photo even if it had been at a fish hatchery…. she was NOT making a statement about our Military…..
she, in my opinion was interacting with a sign, just as she did with a NO SMOKING sign, when she took a photo smoking next to it…
Doesn’t look like she is mocking the sign to me. The way the picture was made, it appears she is flipping off the soldiers who are buried there and yelling at them. While it was a stupid, insensitive act, it just shows that people nowadays have no sense of propriety anymore. Yes it was an idiotic gesture, it is even more idiotic to claim she is doing that to the sign, when clearly she isn’t, as evidenced in the picture.
Doesn’t look like she is mocking the sign to me. The way the picture was made, it appears she is flipping off the soldiers who are buried there and yelling at them.
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REALLY, Hubert Cumberdale?
Where are these Soldiers in the photo then?
If the words Arlington Natl. Cemetery were blurred out, NOBODY would have known where the photo was taken….
\
HOW can you say that it is clear she is flipping off the Soldiers, if you can’t even SEE any Soldiers or Soldiers graves in the photo?
Do YOU really think that if she was anywhere else with a sign saying the same thing, that she would NOT have taken the photo?????
YOU think she ONLY took the photo because of WHERE it was?
NOT what it said??
http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20121129/OPINION05/311290024/Peter-Funt-Lindsey-Stone-case-offers-lesson-social-media
“Lindsey Stone shouldn’t have lost her job. Nor should she be subjected to the barrage of hate that has erupted over her warped idea of what’s funny, and her misguided decision to post a photo of it online.
For their part, “Today” and other mass media must reassess the difference between shedding light and lighting a fire.”
One of the comments:
“Thank you, Peter Funt for your view on this incident. I personally know Lindsey Stone from the LIFE organization in Hyannis. Definitely a lesson learned for all of us. Yes, she made an offensive mistake, but for the media threw her out there for a virtual stoning. The media and the Internet in general are very unforgiving. So screw the Today show and all those that sent this woman up the windmill and torched it. Are you all happy now that she and her co-worker got fired the day before Thanksgiving? If that makes anyone “glad”, you have no room in your heart for forgiveness. I do and I can still say that Lindsey Stone is my friend.”
junctionshamus,
My father was buried with full military honors, loved our country deeply, and instilled his love of country in his children. Though my father chose to be buried in a tiny cemetery far from Arlington — a place that was dear to him — my first visits to Arlington were as a young child. I’ve thanked veterans for their service to our country. In a professional capacity, I’ve worked with veterans and some of my experiences are permanently etched…, without going into detail. Still, I, too, “bristle”, as if these experiences would somehow change my view of Lindsey Stone.
I would offer this:
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.” -Plato
This incident has brought out the worst… When someone hurts this girl (and there are some who seem to feel that it’s the appropriate punishment), who among us would feel “satisfied.” No one, here, I would hope.
I have been around many mentally challenged adults that had speech problems, talk very loud compared to other people, make strange loud noises.
Maybe this worker ‘knew’ her group. Maybe she was just saying, it is going to be very hard for my group to stay silent. Maybe she was worried that a more ‘vocal’ member of her group was going to get them all in trouble by being noisy.
Maybe she was mad at the sign because she knew her group would not be able to comply all that well- nor would they understand why they had to be ‘silent’ instead of ‘quiet’. Maybe she knew she had some additional supervising to do in order to try to comply.
John would know, big fella. Sorry couldn’t resist 😉
And while I’ll not dispute your assertions about ANC, I do bristle at anyone telling me how I will feel and react, even if it’s well meant.
I might suggest that anyone with any opinion on this thread might take a day out of their lives, and spend a day at Arlington. If you are “lucky,” you might be able to observe a full honors military funeral. It’s a life-changing and life-affirming experience. For those who are unaware of what goes on, and have been in support of Ms. Stone, you might see things a bit differently.
And may I also suggest that you approach a family member and say something like, “I’m a complete stranger, but I’m very sorry for your loss, and I’d like to thank you on behalf of your loved one, for their service to this country.”
If you’ve never really made a stranger’s day, you most certainly will.
And I would fervently wish Ms. Stone, after some contemplation and discernment, a better life.
“Life is hard, it’s even harder when you’re stupid.” – John Wayne
Seems like this article has created some cognitive dissonance for some here, maybe all. So many factors. I guess the exception might be those who are convinced that Ms. Stone’s behavior is unequivocally shameful and disrespectful so consequences be damned. They have a special respect for ANC which, being the devil’s advocate, I could say, has no more absolute moral weight than anyone eles’s viewpoint, though I suppose that’s debatable. And, per many comments, I sense a sort of special pleading aspect to making this behavior so offensive. I’m really torn on that one. For instance, I have to separate my own general distaste for the military mindset from the poignant human drama exemplified by ANC. How is it that those who find Stone’s behavior so worthy of contempt don’t seem to struggle with countervailing sentiments, or appear not too. Seems like a massive job of compartmentalizing where THIS particular shrine to the dead is concerned.
I recognize my own contrarian nature (more amateur psychology!) plays a part in how I feel about this, including some identification with the underdog which, to many if not most, Ms. Stone would be: mere mortal, and not very attractive by some folks count, against the massive weight of, as some would have it, the martyrdom of the very best that this nation has produced. Whew, quite an uphill battle. Oh, and BTW, though Ms. Stone get’s (got) paid for her work with mentally challenged adults, let no one did themselves that’s a kings’s ransom, nor do individuals undertake that work, generally, without a commitment and feeling — maybe unsophisticated to some — to persons who need help.,
Finally, the leap from viewing the photograph to concluding Ms. Stone deserves firing (aside from the obvious fact that the employer has the right and ability to fire her) requires the intervention of a whole slew of mental and emotional permutations. Part is based on individual assessment — and how pure is that? And part is based on reference to societal norms. To those who make that connection and give a big thumbs down to Ms. Stone, but claim there is not a strong element of conformity with societal norms, I would wonder what else would it be? Infallible sense of human behavior based on a mere photograph. I’m not saying it’s right or, wrong, just not realistic.
As with most here, this is going to drop off my radar soon. But it certainly continues to engage reflection.
“she is being treated as if she was dancing on the actual Graves… as if she was pointing at the Tomb of the Unknown and being malicious….
I just see it as an overreaction…..” -justagurlinseattle
Yes, “it’s an overreaction…” …and something akin to a witch hunt, as others have rightly noted. She didn’t spit on any graves, to twist your words, justagurl. Rather, she behaved stupidly. She didn’t steal a body — she didn’t rob a grave. She didn’t murder anyone.
Allowing that it was a disrespectful act, the mob-like response simply doesn’t match “the crime.” And when the response isn’t proportional to the act or crime, one has to ask, “Why?” As DonS suggested, one might consider the following: Just maybe “we ARE honoring our own sense of guilt”…”almost as an excuse for the failure to find a better way than war”, in recent years and, also, in the case of Vietnam. Led to war “on false pretenses”, people are angry. After 9/11, people are angry. Good and honorable men and woman have died. Loved ones have died. Loved ones are still dying. People are angry. There are some who are calling for her head.
I would suggest that the anger that’s been directed at a young girl who thoughtlessly did a stupid thing be redirected at those who would so casually and fraudulently send our loved ones to die in wars. I would suggest that there are more appropriate outlets for our anger and outrage.
Do we want to honor the dead? Of course we do. Do we pay homage to those who, with honor, fought for this country? Of course we do. But do we “honor and pay homage” when we respond in a vituperative, reckless manner? Do we “honor and pay homage” when we respond with disproportionate anger. Of course, we don’t.
Did her employer have the right to terminate her employment? Of course. But was there a better solution? Absolutely.
“And finally, I want you to know that I have absolutely no problem believing that occasionally even you can appear “stupid and uninformed.” -mespo
In your zeal to defend this undefendable act, you’ve proven that in abundance” -mespo
Ah, yes, ever the articulate spokesman for “the fallen.” Downright “undignified”, from where I’m sitting. Another “good” lawyer who stoops to name-calling, when all else fails.
An overtly and overly angry, self-righteous response is one that merits a little personal reflection, IMHO.
justa:
“This is what she was doing for a living… Taking care of mentally challenged
adults….. That is a job, NOT many people would do…. and she was WELL LIKED by the families of the people she cared for as well as the people she cared for …….”
**********************
I refer you to Bogey in the Casablanca clip above: “For a price, Ugarte … for a price.” She’s no volunteer.
“Believe me, occasionally, I appear stupid to the uninformed.That is where Lindsey was.Her press crucifiction in an unwarranted attack foisted on her by folks who know nothing of the context.”
~Dr. and Mrs. Michael Zide Fort Worth, TX”
**********************
Believe me my good dentist et ux, I know exactly what the “context” was. It was, after all, in a national cemetery. And calling it an “unwarranted attack” is certainly debatable. That might equally be applied to Ms. Stone’s actions at the cemetery where she was offered admission as a guest.
As for her laudable efforts in caring for your disabled child in Massachusetts, I can only remind you that Mussolini made the trains run on time so we can surmise that one need not be a fool in every aspect of their lives to still be considered a fool. And finally, I want you to know that I have absolutely no problem believing that occasionally even you can appear “stupid and uninformed.”
In your zeal to defend this undefendable act, you’ve proven that in abundance.
Someone mentioned earlier there are some undesirables buried at Arlington. I’m not going there but there is a place where dishonored military members are buried having been executed by courts martial during the second world war. It is located at Oise-Aisne American Cemetery Plot E in France.
In 2009 I was reading through Wikipedia and found the cemetery. I read how those dishonored soldiers were buried in graves without having the human dignity of their names on the headstone, only a number denoting the grave location. I strenuously objected to this, no matter their crime, they had a right to their names being remembered and to not be cast into oblivion. Admittedly I was motivated by my own religious beliefs on the rights of the departed.
I then filed a freedom of information request with the federal government for the names and site location of these men. After I received their names I made a wikipedia article listing their names for everyone to see and remember. The deserved that at least.
List of soldiers at Plot E
“yelling at the top of her lungs” -mespo
Was she actually “yelling” or just pretending to yell. Do we know? And if she was “yelling”, do we know that she was “yeling at the top of her lungs?”
Was she actually “yelling” or just pretending to yell. Do we know? And if she was “yelling”, do we know that she was “yeling at the top of her lungs?”
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Anonymously….
That is just it… she was PRETENDING to yell… just making the motion to look like she is yelling……
also, you can see in the photo, she is bent down, as to NOT draw attention to herself…..
she did NOT disturb ANYONE while she was taking the photo…..
If it had been this HORRIBLE and disruptive act at the time of the photo, somebody would have come forward by now to make their complaints…
I get that many are upset because of the CLOSE Proximity to the graves and the Tomb of the Unknown….. BUT, being close to, is still NOT pointing at….
HOWEVER…. If she had blurred out the name, Arlington Natl. in the photo… NOBODY would have even known where the photo was taken…..
People claiming that she is mocking the dead are SEEING what is NOT there…..
I just wonder HOW she can be seen as mocking the dead, when you can NOT SEE any Graves or the Tomb in the photo????
she is being treated as if she was dancing on the actual Graves… as if she was pointing at the Tomb of the Unknown and being malicious….
I just see it as an overreaction…..
“Her press crucifiction in an unwarranted attack foisted on her by folks who know nothing of the context.” Dr. and Mrs. Michael Zide Fort Worth, TX
-posted by justagurlinseattle
“Kudos” to the Zides and thanks for posting it, justagurlinseattle.
The following comes to mind:
“Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant with the weak and the wrong. Sometime in your life you will have been all of these.”
-Dr. Robert H. Goddard quotes (American rocket engineer 1882-1945)
IMHO, the situation might have been handled creatively by Lindsey’s employer — it needn’t have ended with the termination of her employment. Maybe the opinions of the residents should have been considered. Was she kind and good to them? Did she make a positive difference in their lives? There was a teachable moment in this incident — a teachable moment that was squandered, IMO. What a shame.
http://www.lifecapecod.org/ (Her photo (above) is from LIFE’s web site.)
Anonymously….
This is what she was doing for a living… Taking care of mentally challenged
adults….. That is a job, NOT many people would do…. and she was WELL LIKED by the families of the people she cared for as well as the people she cared for …….
from ABC News forum…..
Lindsey Stone has been the social worker and caretaker of my 30 year old son, who has special needs. Over the past few years, she has been an excellent employee of LIFE (Living Independently ForEver), a residential program in Cape Cod for young adults with complex learning disabilities.My wife and I know her very well.In, fact I would recommend her most highly for any pursuit to which she endeavors.At the moment the notorious photo was taken, Lindsey was chaperoning 40 special needs young adults on a once-in-a-lifetime visit to DC. As a father to one of those kids, I regularly joke and entertain my son with silly manoeuvres.I don’t care that I am a 67 year old surgeon- my only desire is to bring joy to my dear son. I am his guardian and protector.Believe me, occasionally, I appear stupid to the uninformed.That is where Lindsey was. Her press crucifiction in an unwarranted attack foisted on her by folks who know nothing of the context.Dr. and Mrs. Michael Zide Fort Worth, TX
A different side of Lindsey:
http://testlife.webstarts.com/uploads/Family_Cookout_8-6-11_053.jpg
Thanks AY. I have been a little busy lately.
“I don;t think it has to do with conformity, as so many of us have said, it has to do with maturity and the fact that she was representing her company”.
Spot on, leejcaroll. The relevant fact to her being fired was she was on the company dime and she drew negative attention to her company. Regardless of the specific facts leading up to that, the results remain the same: her firing was legal, rational and justified. That it was her immaturity that led to this end is immaterial. She could have just as easily done something else that had the same net effect for her company and gotten the same result. That’s the disconnect. She’s not being punished/fired for what she said. She was fired for publicly embarrassing her employer on a business trip they paid for.
Let’s say I went to Holland on a business trip for Honeywell. I decide to get reaaaaaalllllyy high and hire a bunch of hookers. Say I decide that me and my perfectly legal escorts and my bong are going to go have sex in my hotel and I’m going to post pictures of it on FB with captions saying “My last business trip to Amsterdam! Thanks, Honeywell!” Or even if I don’t go that explicit in the caption and leave Honeywell out of it but on my FB page it does mention I work for Honeywell.
I’d expect to be fired before my plane landed. Possibly before it took off. Why? Bong hits and hookers are legal in Amsterdam. I had broken no laws. But I did embarrass the Hell out of my company while on their dime.
I’ve worked at Fortune 100 companies, medium sized companies and small companies and in every one of those situations I would expect to be fired for making the kind of public faux pas Stone did let alone my more extreme example. If she had been on a vacation she paid for herself? A totally different story. The bottom line is she wasn’t. She was in town as a representative for her company. That comes with some responsibilities. Stone either ignored that fact or didn’t know that and she paid the price for her stupid fun.