Criminal law, Politics, Society

Send God, Guns, and Money: Sandy Hook Shooting Becomes Rallying Point For Political Advocates

praying_hands[1]300px-M4-TransparentThe murder of 20 children and six adults at the Sandy Hook Elementary has spawned an array of commentary from calls for new gun controls to greater funding for mental illness in the United States. However, Fox commentator and former GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said that the shooting was not surprising after the removal of prayer from public schools. Rep. Louie Gohmert, a Republican from Texas, did one better, he wished God ensured that Principal says Dawn Hochsprung had an M-4 assault rifle at the school before she was killed.

Gohmert told Fox News “I wish to God she had an M-4 in her office locked up so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out and she didn’t have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands but she takes him out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids.” Wouldn’t it be a bit more direct to pray that God had stopped Lanza from going to the school or that he was institutionalized before his mass murder?

If school teachers are now to be armed, wouldn’t the teachers have to carry around their assault rifles at all time since they would not know when an attack would occur? Indeed, given the low likelihood of such an attack, should they also be equipped with ebola-medical kits, rabies treatment packs, floatation devices, and other equipment for more likely threats. The average soldier, after all, carries as much as 135 pounds depending on their unit. Should our teachers carry less to protect our children?

As for prayer, is that what caused Lanza (with a history of mental illness) to kill? Lack of school prayer. His first murder was at home. After shooting his mother in the face, would Lanza have hesitated at the schoolhouse gate because he recalled morning prayers in civics class? By the way, those terrorists we read about daily do a lot of praying. It does not seem to have the same impact on them.

Putting aside the desire to try a tragedy to a favorite cause, there is often a search for meaning in tragedies. The most frightening thought is that such a terrible loss would not have meaning. It was an unspeakable crime committed by an unstable person. We are all emotionally shredded by this tragedy. However, we know that this is likely to happen again. Even with gun controls, people will still have guns, which are constitutionally protected. Some will have multiple guns. We do not have to shrug and do nothing. There is a need to better deal with mental illness in this country. It was not that long ago that another unstable young man committed a massacre at Virginia Tech. However, as with gun controls, it is not clear that much would have changed in this case. Lanza’s mother decided to keep him at home and tried to deal with his instability on her own. If a parent keeps a child at home and addresses such problems privately, it is doubtful that new programs would have had any impact.

Nevertheless, I would prefer to discuss expanded mental health programs over assault weapons in schools as a starting point of any reforms.

Source: Hill

310 thoughts on “Send God, Guns, and Money: Sandy Hook Shooting Becomes Rallying Point For Political Advocates”

  2. mespo (sorry to seem to be focusing 😉 ) says “Even the new poll taken in the wake of the tragedy doesn’t show support from a majority of citizens for gun controls.:

    Chalk another one up to government by by propaganda and frenzy. Could this possibly be a broad brush correlation to the general mistrust of government action. I’d say likely.

    But why so selective to simply look at polls when none other that the estimable Edmund Burke, flogging his constituitive theory of representation said, essentially, that reps were constituted and ought to have the courage to do what is right for the common good even when it may seem to diverge from the popular will.

    I don’t know why I even bother engaging this argument anymore. Under the cover of protecting the sanctity of the Constitution there is this putrid wave of BS essentially covering up for a sleazy underground of gun merchants and a sleazy bunch of sunshine patriots.

    disclaimer – no inferences regarding anyone here, save maybe one or two special cases 😉

  3. JunctionShamus,

    If no one had a gun, then no one would die of gunshot wounds. I said that.

    And if you have no gun on you, how polite is enough when the other guy is a robber, or whatever. So everybody needs a gun in Heinlein’s society.

    I’ve been threatened with a revolver wielded by a front desk clerk at a shabby NYC hotel. I didn’t leave with the thought that “Jeez, wish I had a gun, then he’d have to duck for me.”

    Remember “McCabe and Mrs Miller”. The opening shootout, and the closing one? Is that where we are headed if you had your way?

    With all due respect for your right to say your opinions.

  4. As for the presence of the Great Hairy Thunderer
    He was with Moses in the desert for 40 years
    He was with Noah on the Ark
    He was with Daniel in the lions den
    He was with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace
    He was with Jesus on the cross

    But a 1962 USSC decision that schools can not force you to pray and teachers can not lead a prayer is all it takes to defeat Him.

    What a wimp you must think this Cosmic muffin is! What a pathetically weak and useless deity you must assume you follow.

    My God is much stronger than that – I shall pray to him now and you, the US Supreme Court and all your armys may try to stop me from praying – go on. Try to stop me!

  5. 20% of Americans own 65% of all the guns in America. Think about that for a while. We are not dealing with rational, healthy individuals here. there is no reason to expect them to behave in a rational manner.

  6. Mespo said “As Gene H said on another thread, we need to resist the desire to emotionalize every tragedy with cries of “We must do something” while still smarting from the searing heat of the moment. Rights get lost that way. 9/11 proved that point.”

    Seems like we all need to be oh so cautious about threading on the little twinkies of the RW wackos, gun fetishists and militiamen. They, as we we
    all know are duly steeped in the finer points of Constitutional jurisprudence.

    That’s all a bit tongue in cheek of course, but I would wonder exactly when is the switch flipped that indicates the searing heat of the moment has passed and we can enter cool and calm deliberations — with the certain cooperation of said right wing wackos, gun fetishists and militiamen (who, btw, would never fearmonger or appeal to emotion themselves) And what level of repeat gun violence vitiates the ‘all clear’ presaging calm and cool deliberations and, as it were, starts the ‘no discussion’ waiting period running again? Please, this is a construct without meaningful measurement. Using the Patriot Act as a negative exemplar — maybe shaming all those progressives who were rolled by that one — is a pretty low device. Neuter advocacy that has merit because of a totally inapposite example save for the putative element of emotionalism. Low.

    Finally, I’m not willing to subscribe to the purist jurist view that “the law”, in it’s many forms from formulation to appellate review is really immune from emotion. Regardless of what smarmy arrogant jurists like Scalia would seek to lecture us. Maybe it’s a nice ideal, but to have the accusation of emotionalism used as a cudgel to dodge this issue time and again doesn’t convince.

  7. Magazines that fed bullets into the primary firearm used to kill 26 children and adults at a Connecticut school would have been banned under state legislation that the National Rifle Association and gunmakers successfully fought.

    The shooter at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Adam Lanza, 20, used a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle with magazines containing 30 rounds as his main weapon, said Connecticut State Police Lieutenant Paul Vance at a news conference today.

    A proposal in March 2011 would have made it a felony to possess magazines with more than 10 bullets and required owners to surrender them to law enforcement or remove them from the state. Opponents sent more than 30,000 e-mails and letters to state lawmakers as part of a campaign organized by the NRA and other gun advocates, said Robert Crook, head of the Hartford- based Coalition of Connecticut Sportsmen, which opposed the legislation.

    “The legislators got swamped by NRA emails,” said Betty Gallo, who lobbied on behalf of the legislation for Southport- based Connecticut Against Gun Violence. “They were scared of the NRA and the political backlash.”

    Proponents abandoned the legislation, which drew opposition from gunmakers including Sturm, Ruger & Co. (RGR) In addition to the e-mails and letters, more than 300 pro-gun activists, including many NRA members, attended a committee hearing to oppose it, said Gallo, a Hartford-based lobbyist for more than 35 years.

    […] Both sides in the debate disputed the role of high-capacity magazines in the Dec. 14 school shooting.
    Crook said state legislation “wouldn’t have made a difference.”

    “We already have a lot of good gun laws on the books,” Crook said. “You can’t control people who have never done anything wrong before and then just go off the deep end.”

    U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Connecticut Democrat, said in an interview that high-capacity magazines “made the crime all the more deadly” and called for limits.

    The media office of the NRA didn’t respond to e-mails seeking comment about the shooting or the law, or return phone messages left with an answering service.
    C&L

  8. Messpo,

    I suggest study of this Huffpost article. Unusually wide different poll coverage. And ranging back for some years in time.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/margie-omero/gun-polling-a-moving-targ_b_810324.html

    The quote I based my post on had expanded the view on gun checks before sales. On that point the figure is in fact 80 percent plus favorable, including gun owners.

    I’ll leave it up to you or others to come back after trudging through the polls linked here.

    Now is the time to join other industrialized nations in gun control, single-payer medical systems, and cleaner justice systems.

  9. Mike –

    Would agree on most items, although I see some differences, where tweaking might resolve them.

    1. Guns on Campus – When you discuss campuses, are you talking about K-12 or colleges? There are a lot of students who are retirees, veterans, mature enough to carry, and if concealed, no one would be the wiser. Also, my work takes me on and off several campuses, as my case load dictates. While I may not carry a concealed sidearm (as I’m licensed to do), there are legal issues, even keeping it locked inside my vehicle.

    2. Immediate Firearms Purchases – There should be a difference, and possible exceptions between initial and additional firearms purchases, or trading in one for another. Of course, this sword can cut both ways. While having one firearm should qualify an individual to purchase others without waiting, an argument can be made that, since an individual already has one, what’s the hurry for an additional weapon?

    3. No Borders to Firearm Movement – In the time it takes to get across Texas, an individual can travel from Boston, MA to Myrtle Beach, SC. Ten States. An individual’s purpose for traveling, or traveling in and of itself, creates inherent risks, such as a lack of familiarity with specific dangers in specific geographic areas.

    4. Since guns are one of the few commodities covered by Federal legislation, it would stand to reason that a national-level system of training, licensing (though without national registration of licensees) might be required. Drug laws are standardized (though enforced differently). Why not for firearms?

    As an owner of several weapons, I have no objection to paying a minimal tax, say, $5/weapon, $30 limit, for all semi-auto pistols, revolvers and long-guns, more for semi-auto weapons, to be used for gun safety and MH programs.

    “Right winger” (if I must be categorized) that I am, I also advocate an increase in sentence enhancements for firearms used in crimes. Maybe not as draconian as California’s but somewhere between “making a point,” and “What the hell, if I’m going away for life, might as well not leave any witnesses.”

    Finally, I would disagree as to your “rate of fire” argument, though I’m not sure if it was a blanket statement or not. I’m not in support of unloading a 30-round clip on Bambi or Thumper, but in winged-hunting scenarios, it might take two, or, heaven forbid, three shots at a moving target. If it takes any more, I might suggest a round of skeet.

    Just throwing these out as suggestions, or items for further discussion. Now back to my self- imposed sabbatical on gun issues, in lieu of mental health ones.

    Mike – What I do completely agree with is, your sadness and rage at the events that have unfolded. I would really hate to argue with you in a more “cogent and concise” state of mind.

    While “… an armed society — especially as we prosecute it at the moment in this country — is the opposite of a civil society.” I’d respond with a quote from writer Robert Heinlein: “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”

    1. Junctionshamusj,

      You need to take yourself out of the equation because for you this is a work related matter and there would be accommodations made for your status in any regulations contemplated

      There is also currently a University that has established a separate dormitory for those students who are legally armed. The problem they have is that only a few students volunteer for it. I personally don’t see the need to be armed on a college campus, but then I don’t personally see the need to be armed, nor do I fear for my safety almost anywhere. However, you won’t see me drinking in a bar where people are allowed to carry, or go through neighborhoods where I feel a dangerous vibe. I’ve driven through a deserted downtown St. Louis late at night, for instance in a convertible with the top down. St. Louis is a high crime city. Was I alert, you betcha, but I was’t fearful because I trust my proven street smarts. Too many people live their lives in fear, I’ve faced the brink of death already, so what do I have to fear then except for taxes. 🙂

      As for your other points I agree with some such as number 4 and your willingness to accept taxation. As for the increased sentences I’m not sure I agree because I thik that even a little increase turns the situation into “what the hell might as well not leave witnesses”. For the “rate of fire” argument were you being ironic? Two or three shots is not the rate of fire I’m talking about. I know enough about hunting to that if you only wound an animal with your first shot, you would want another one or two to finish the job humanely. If you need more shots than that for a kill when hunting, I would advise turning to fly-fishing.

      Finally, Heinlein was a wonderful writer who I started reading around 1954 and continued reading through the years. As a person though he was more than a bit crazy and even his friends and contemporaries like Isaac Asimov, Fred Pohl and Lester Del Rey agreed on that. Heinlein and Harlan Ellison were on the same track mentally, though Ellison a bit more delusional. My favorite Heinlein book incidentally has almost been forgotten and it is called “Door Into Summer” a wonderful tale of time travel, love and revenge. “Stranger in a Strange Land” was also classic, but I didn’t find it emotionally moving. “Starship Trooper” was also a beloved piece of writing.

  11. “According to the survey, conducted Friday through Sunday, 44% now strongly support stricter gun laws, with 32% opposed. That’s the first time in ABC/Washington Post polling in five years where significantly more people favor rather than opposed stricter gun control measure. And for the first time in surveys dating back to 2000, less than 50% say the best way to reduce gun violence is to enforce existing laws. The number of people saying the best way is to pass new laws edging up to 32%, the highest level since 2000 in ABC/Washington Post polling.” mespo, not a majority for yet but certainly not a majority against, either.

  12. sm:

    Even the new poll taken in the wake of the tragedy doesn’t show support from a majority of citizens for gun controls.

  13. SwM,

    Thank you for your acknowledgement that I exist. What Blouise and Messpo think of me is clear. But they won’t get silence for that reason.

    Now emerging are stuff from back to the 1920’s, Reagan’s ideas, etc supporting gun controi. Now stats say the people want it with 80 percent plus supporting it.

    Popular support is there. Now is the time. “If not now, when.”

    Will we allow the Kochs and the Dissentionists to continue to rule over us?
    Dissentionists: my name for the Republican party.

    This is an excellent opportunity to take a step in re-taking our control of this nation.

  14. idealist, You have to make your move when public opinion is moving your way. ” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Congress needs to do something about gun violence because “we are not doing enough to protect our citizens.”

    And what does the National Rifle Association have to say about that? Well, nothing today. But three years ago, Wayne LaPierre, the head of the NRA called Reid a “true champion” for gun rights:

    “He is a true champion of the Second Amendment,” LaPierre said of Reid.

    With NRA member Joe Manchin also coming out for gun control in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, a trend is starting to develop. ” Daily Kos

  15. And if you want to support freedom of the press and support leaking of the truth, try this:

    “Today, I join with a group of colleagues and friends to announce The Freedom of the Press Foundation.

    This new foundation crowd-sources funding for a number of tireless, courageous and underfunded freedom of press organizations, including WikiLeaks.

    This is the first time that citizens can offer their financial support to WikiLeaks, since donation processing for the organization was shut down by extra-judicial government pressure on Bank of America, MasterCard, Visa, PayPal, and Amazon in 2010.

    They’re not going to stop us this time.

    Please tell the US government what you think of its attempted financial embargo of Wikileaks, by making a donation to the Freedom of Press Foundation today. You can choose how much of your money you’d like to go to WikiLeaks.

    Thank you,

    Daniel Ellsberg

    Here are related links:

    Our Huffington Post op-ed announcing the new initiative

    New York Times blog post about the Foundation

    Glenn Greenwald’s Guardian op-ed about the Foundation
    =========
    end email from Ellsberg.

  16. Gene H:

    You know I think it was Victor Hugo who said words to the effect that it is “better that a few throats be slit on the Champs-Élysées than a [French Police Detective] Vidocq on every corner.”

    Crass but it makes the point.

  18. Here are HuffPost stats on opinions in both gun-owner and the general population of gun control.

    “90% of Americans support fixing gaps in government databases meant to prevent the mentally ill, drug abusers and others from buying guns. Americans also want to see better background checks for gun purchases, no matter how they’re described. More than eight in ten (86% of Americans, 81% of gun households) support background checks for all gun sales, regardless of seller or venue.”

    — http://www.huffingtonpost.com/margie-omero/gun-polling-a-moving-targ_b_810324.html

  20. Messpo727272, says:

    “Something we will do … but with cooler heads.”

    Is this the same person who defended drone attacks?

    Do we in fact have any stats on where the people stand on this?

    Let us not forget these victims, who will quickly be smokescreened away by the ALEC and NRA groups, with liberal payments to congressmen/women supporting them.

    How long do you suggest waiting until heads have cooled?

    And how should the process go forward?

    Appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

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