Criminal law, Politics, Society

Send God, Guns, and Money: Sandy Hook Shooting Becomes Rallying Point For Political Advocates

praying_hands[1]300px-M4-TransparentThe murder of 20 children and six adults at the Sandy Hook Elementary has spawned an array of commentary from calls for new gun controls to greater funding for mental illness in the United States. However, Fox commentator and former GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said that the shooting was not surprising after the removal of prayer from public schools. Rep. Louie Gohmert, a Republican from Texas, did one better, he wished God ensured that Principal says Dawn Hochsprung had an M-4 assault rifle at the school before she was killed.

Gohmert told Fox News “I wish to God she had an M-4 in her office locked up so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out and she didn’t have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands but she takes him out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids.” Wouldn’t it be a bit more direct to pray that God had stopped Lanza from going to the school or that he was institutionalized before his mass murder?

If school teachers are now to be armed, wouldn’t the teachers have to carry around their assault rifles at all time since they would not know when an attack would occur? Indeed, given the low likelihood of such an attack, should they also be equipped with ebola-medical kits, rabies treatment packs, floatation devices, and other equipment for more likely threats. The average soldier, after all, carries as much as 135 pounds depending on their unit. Should our teachers carry less to protect our children?

As for prayer, is that what caused Lanza (with a history of mental illness) to kill? Lack of school prayer. His first murder was at home. After shooting his mother in the face, would Lanza have hesitated at the schoolhouse gate because he recalled morning prayers in civics class? By the way, those terrorists we read about daily do a lot of praying. It does not seem to have the same impact on them.

Putting aside the desire to try a tragedy to a favorite cause, there is often a search for meaning in tragedies. The most frightening thought is that such a terrible loss would not have meaning. It was an unspeakable crime committed by an unstable person. We are all emotionally shredded by this tragedy. However, we know that this is likely to happen again. Even with gun controls, people will still have guns, which are constitutionally protected. Some will have multiple guns. We do not have to shrug and do nothing. There is a need to better deal with mental illness in this country. It was not that long ago that another unstable young man committed a massacre at Virginia Tech. However, as with gun controls, it is not clear that much would have changed in this case. Lanza’s mother decided to keep him at home and tried to deal with his instability on her own. If a parent keeps a child at home and addresses such problems privately, it is doubtful that new programs would have had any impact.

Nevertheless, I would prefer to discuss expanded mental health programs over assault weapons in schools as a starting point of any reforms.

Source: Hill

310 thoughts on “Send God, Guns, and Money: Sandy Hook Shooting Becomes Rallying Point For Political Advocates”

  1. pete9999, DonS, etc.
    nobody picks on me, so no bad feelings at all. Yes, but I gave the catergories we usually have of murders: domestic, alcoholism, and deranged persons.

    However, some have “difficulties in reading” civil discourse, and claim that I am derailing the discussion. I quote GeneH:

    “Oh, I have ways to achieve those goals, but I don’t think I’m interested in letting you further derail the conversation here, id707. However, my reply to you stands. Worry about your own solutions and I’ll worry about mine.”

    Geneh does not understand the nature of a free speech blog.

    1. Gene does not determine what is on the rails here. My personal comments to DonS in response to his personal questions were included in a comment right on the money.

    2. Gene does not know that all comments here are open to comment—-although he has reminded me several times of that..

    DonS,

    Congratulations on your moving the immovable object, ie GeneH.
    I note at least two major “clarifications” in his later comments.

    You are indeed a qualificerad debater. Welcome again. We need more.

    Except for the usual “I got your back”-coimments from some, we seem mostly inclined to look at the problem now:

    —-while Congress is gauging the long-term political effect among their voters and the gun lobby’s capability to sweep it under the rug of propaganda.

    —-while the Prez’s gang is figuring out the effects for him. He has come out with condolences, acknowledged that children are insufficiently protected, but propose no solution or even its direction. The man does not seem to have any guiding principles, nor a good contingency planning in his staff.

    The quickest will be a Congressional committee with hearings.
    The next quickest will be a Presidential Commission, and we know what they turn up: from JFK to Challenger to…..(If it weren’t for Richard Feynman).
    The best might be the committee, supplemented by CRS reports.

    The worst is what we have had since Koch’s front, ALEC, has been producing model laws, and even prior to that.

    When do we get a Dem think tank doing the same. The Dissident party is taking over the nation from below. Cute!

    Don’t want to politicize this. It is a human problem, should be treated as such, and should come onto the books with a law and an agency strong as the IRS, which was used for the original essays in meddling in states’ rights in the 20’s, I believe.

    Sucking on the violence teat offered by the MIC has brought us here. Let’s get weaned.

  2. ” There are an estimated 300 million guns in the United States, one in four adult Americans owns at least one and most of them are men. The British newspaper The Guardian, reminds us that over the last 30 years, “The number of states with a law that automatically approves licenses to carry concealed weapons provided an applicant clears a criminal background check has risen from eight to 38.”‘

    “Every year there are 30,000 gun deaths and 300,000 gun-related assaults in the U.S. Firearm violence may cost our country as much as $100 billion a year. Toys are regulated with greater care and safety concerns than guns.”

    “So why do we always act so surprised? Violence is alter ego, wired into our Stone Age brains, so intrinsic its toxic eruptions no longer shock, except momentarily when we hear of a mass shooting like this latest in Colorado. But this, too, will pass and the nation of the short attention span quickly finds the next thing to divert us from the hard realities of America in 2012.”

    “We are after all a country which began with the forced subjugation into slavery of millions of Africans and the reliance on arms against Native Americans for its Westward expansion. In truth, more settlers traveling the Oregon Trail died from accidental, self-inflicted gunshots wounds than from Indian attacks – we were not only bloodthirsty, we were also inept.”

    “Nonetheless, we have become so gun loving, so blasé about home-grown violence that in my lifetime alone, far more Americans have been casualties of domestic gunfire than have died in all our wars combined. In Arizona last year, just days after the Gabby Giffords shooting, sales of the weapon used in the slaughter – a 9-millimeter Glock semi-automatic pistol – doubled.”

    “We are fooling ourselves. That the law could allow even an inflamed lunatic to easily acquire murderous weapons and not expect murderous consequences. Fooling ourselves that the second amendment’s guarantee of a “well-regulated militia” be construed as a God-given right to purchase and own just about any weapon of destruction you like. That’s a license for murder and mayhem and it’s a great fraud that has entered our history.”

    “There’s a video of which I’d like to remind you. You can see it on YouTube. In it, Adam Gadahn, an American born member of al Qaeda, the first U.S. citizen charged with treason since 1952, urges terrorists to carry out attacks on the United States. Right before your eyes he says: “America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely, without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?”‘

    “The killer in Colorado waited only for an opportunity, and there you have it — the arsenal of democracy transformed into the arsenal of death and the NRA — the NRA is the enabler of death — paranoid, delusional, and as venomous as a scorpion. With the weak-kneed acquiescence of our politicians, the National Rifle Association has turned the Second Amendment of the Constitution into a cruel hoax, a cruel and deadly hoax.”

    Bill Moyers

  3. Jonathan:

    “People have the KJV but they are oblivious as to what the bible says prayer is.”

    *******************************

    Ooh, Ooh, I know. The Bible says prayer is worthless. Matthew 6:7-8

    Now was that a trick question?

  4. People have the KJV but they are oblivious as to what the bible says prayer is.
    Romans 8:26
    King James Version of Romans 8:26.
    Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
    This is not saying anything.
    Matthew 6 >>5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
    7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

  5. Don S:

    “Also, to my knowledge, “planned violence”: is not a discriminating behavior in the definition of DSM recognized disorders, so folks opining on the connection are to some extent free lancing. You could make or dispute the connection for many disorders.”

    ***********************

    You captured my point entirely. We don’t know if ASD causes or merely correlates with violence though common sense would suggest that the resulting depression and isolation leads to aggressive feelings. If we don’t know for sure, then our mental health “experts” shouldn’t be rushing to the podium to categorically denounce anyone who suggests a connection. It smacks of paternalism or pecuniary gain or both.

  7. . . . on the other hand there is this, which seems to cut both ways (plus a small sample size):

    “Arguably, fire-related crimes are among the most frequently associated with hfASD. In a previously discussed study, Siponmaa et al.29 reported that 10 (63%) of 16 crimes of arson were perpetrated by subjects with hfASD diagnoses. This was the only crime category in which these diagnoses were over-represented”

  9. mespo, for example, I plucked this gem out of the article you linked (I’m just scanning, not really reading):

    “This is not to say that having a developmental disorder enhances the likelihood of acting criminally per se. Rather, we shall describe the features of hfASD that would most likely be involved when criminal actions occur. “

  13. Gene, in my wild youth I graduated law school and passed the bar. Amen.

    I’m glad I don’t have to dance with you in court. That’s a compliment, I think.

  14. This kid had a plan. He carried it out. How long he planned it may be known if recovery on his computer is successful.
    1st kill Mom. 2nd drive to school kill any and all humans possible. 3rd when the cops show up, kill self.
    He was in control of this entire scenario the moment he held the gun and killed his mother.
    His twisted brain had created a twisted logic that he followed.

    I dare say in his mind he felt his actions justified. Twisted, terrible, insane to us, yet he did it. The human brain is the most creative grouping of cells in the universe. ( I hope not, but no advanced civilization has shown up yet to straighten us out) We are alone on earth with our incredible brains.
    Each of we humans have one, This makes us equal. How we use it makes us different. What inspires us, deludes us, pains us and addicts us, creates vasts differences. Greed, Power, Domination, Self aggrandizement, Fame.

    Our brains are the best and the worst things in our corner of the universe.
    All 7 billion of us are equal in this. I consider this a painfully sane statement.
    It is true. We humans deny it every day with most every action.

    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
    I submit every action that deviates from this path starts with a small twist of logic. Sometimes as some continue, our individual twists leaves equality behind. We all twist for survival, some twist real hard for Greed, Power, Domination, Self Aggrandizement, Fame.
    As Orwell said some Pigs are more equal.

    The shooters brain was twisted beyond my human experience comprehension. I believe we all twist logic to suit our needs. How much a sane person twists is a choice.

  15. mespo, you’re wading into some murky waters. It’s hard to find much agreement among clinicians on many disorders. Mostly information is going to be coded in terms of cohort groups, statistical significance, and generally going off into the weeds. Fact is, too, that those exhibiting diagnosable mental disorders seem to share a lot of traits with the rest of the population but only differ in degree. So, right off you get questions about degree of illness which can lead to questions about the existence of the illness at all. And on and on. Also, to my knowledge, “planned violence”: is not a discriminating behavior in the definition of DSM recognized disorders, so folks opining on the connection are to some extent free lancing. You could make or dispute the connection for many disorders.

  16. DonS,

    “[P]erhaps your approach toward counseling ‘anti-emotionalism’, basically assuming the advocates of gun control here have gone over to the dark side, has masked what you describe as your true intention.”

    Or perhaps the advocates of gun control (which I am one in the form of reasonable restrictions) have missed that I’ve been warning of emotionalism from both sides of the argument and some people are simply hard of understanding that because in being emotional they think the warning is directed only at them.

    “I have no Idea how emotion can be kept out.”

    Detachment in analysis and argument is a skill. It can be learned. It is part of the skill set a good legal education imparts. A good science education too for that matter. For example, I’m madder than Hell that some lunatic killed a bunch of kids. I’m not, however, letting that interfere with my legal analysis of how to address the problem moving forward on prevention while maintaining the right in question.

    “I guess I see a difference between emotion an irrationality.”

    Reason is logic supported by evidence. Emotion is feeling and it requires neither logic nor evidence. One is a scientific process. The other is analogous to belief. One is the proper foundation for the construction of laws. The other leads to irrational laws. One produces forms of governance like democratic Constitutional Presidential republics. The other produces forms of governance like theocracy and cults of personality like dictatorships. One is a good basis for sound legal formulation and judgement. The other is the basis for burning witches and creating oppression.

    I’ll go with reason and objective detachment as a basis for law over emotion any day.

  17. Gene: “Has everyone lost the ability to read and understand English?”

    If it walks like a duck . . .

    Seriously, perhaps your approach toward counseling “anti-emotionalism”, basically assuming the advocates of gun control here have gone over to the dark side, has masked what you describe as your true intention. I wouldn’t accuse you of projecting, but I certainly haven’t noticed absence of rationality here among gun control advocates. Meanwhile you have come down thumpingly hard along with those here who, in my view, have actually been irrationally shrill about 2nd amendment rights being abrogated. 2 + 2 = 4.

    Glad to hear you reinforce your wish for serious attention to this issue now. To me, and I see many others here, this is an issue that has been irrefutably begging for attention for years, and just as obviously ignored in the halls of power for the unsavory reasons we all know.

    I have no Idea how emotion can be kept out. I guess I see a difference between emotion an irrationality.

  19. Speaking of interest groups, I’ve seen numerous “experts” on Aspergers Syndrome hitting the media outlets to state categorically that ASD is not associated with “planned violence.” While no one wants to unfairly scapegoat any group of afflicted persons, the public deserves to know the truth about this neural development disorder. A little research of my own seems to have revealed this as a doubtful proposition especially in view of the picture coming together about the shooter.

    Here’s the article JAAPLO:

    http://www.jaapl.org/content/34/3/374.full

    1. “Speaking of interest groups, I’ve seen numerous “experts” on Aspergers Syndrome hitting the media outlets to state categorically that ASD is not associated with “planned violence.””

      Mespo,

      I read the previous link you submitted and my conclusion as a former mental health professional, who did differential diagnostic work, is like most things in the Psychology scene it does not pass the smell test a scientifically acceptable fact.
      The entire DSM series are works of political composition, rather than true scientific tomes. Their value is as a sort of shorthand between clinicians to convey the behavioral problem of patients. The problem is that one persons diagnosis is another persons mis-diagnosis. Think of it akin to the disagreements between legal authorities on points of law. The difference is that Psychologists and Psychiatrists are thought of as scientists, when in fact they lack the true hard evidenced based results of the so-called hard sciences. The overriding truth I’ve seen in my 40 year involvement with psychotherapy is that it is an art, rather than a science and should be treated as such. Also too, there is what to me is a higher than normal rate of psychological disorder among those in these fields then there is in the “normal” population.

      Sorry OS, this certainly does’t include you, but I have to be honest about my observations of the field from the inside. That’s a major reason why I voluntarily gave up the training institute I co-founded.

  20. Malisha,

    Has everyone lost the ability to read and understand English?

    I explicitly said the time for calm reasoned discussion and analysis is always now. And it’s always now no matter what the subject matter might be. Some quarters inability to maintain calm reasoned discussion – on both sides – is impeding making faster progress. I’ve been cautioning against rashness and emotionalism in analysis and decision making. By anyone.

Comments are closed.