Happy New Year’s Eve to all of our blog family. We will be spending New Year’s Eve at home this year — preparing for our annual New Year’s party on January 1st. I will be toasting to everyone on our extended blog family.
Tonight Leslie and I will share our traditional bottle of Schramsberg Sparkling wine. This is my wedding anniversary. Thirteen years ago, Leslie and I eloped on New Year’s Eve after eight years years of dating. (There is an ongoing dispute over calculating the event, I insist that this is our 22nd anniversary but Leslie insists on not counting the eight years of dating). We always celebrate with a bottle of Schramsberg. This was the bottle I bought after we got hitched at Alexandria City Hall. I used my house school ring to seal the deal.
The kids made it to midnight and watched the painful display of Anderson Cooper trying to restrain Kathy Griffin. It turns out the Mayan Apocalypse merely predicted Griffin’s appearance on New Year’s Eve. This included her attempt to throw cash into the crowd – a moronic idea that had to be physically stopped by Anderson to avert a disaster. If this was Griffin’s idea of a joke, it came across as an unhinged, unfunny person trying to fill time. The kids insisted that we turn to NBC instead.
We are expecting 200 friends to share in Wasabi Bloody Marys) and our traditional soup: The Bowl of the Wife of Kit Carson Soup. I have smoked two turkeys to put into the soup. I also have enough Wasabi to light up Tokyo.
Everyone drive carefully and have fun. I will be giving a toast to our entire blog family tonight (and, of course, my marriage).
nick,
I only asked for proof of the percentages you claimed. I don’t believe everything that everyone tells me. Why should I? Some people who comment on blogs make stuff up. I have no way of knowing what you say is true or correct in a case like this unless you can provide information on the subject from a reliable source.
One might think that someone who is an experienced PI like you should have known better and have been more careful about the sites that he provided links to on blogs.
Elaine, You objection to my link policy is duly noted on the record and denied. You are the only person I’ve encountered in 2 years on this and other blogs who has expressed a problem w/ my policy. Several have expressed empathy @ my guilt feeling of having other peoples computers crash because of something I’ve done, and on that basis alone abide my actions.
“You objection to my link policy is duly noted on the record and denied.”
A translation from the language of Nick:
“The smoke I blow from my ass, that serves as argument does not need verification, because if you don’t accept it as smelling sweet, then you are a terrible person attacking me unfairly”.
A corollary from the language of Nick:
“My facts are what I say they are, your facts are not only wrong but vicious attacks”.
And finally:
“If I say it, it is true because I know better than you. Any rebuttal of my truth is an unfair attack and therefore arrogance on your part.”
nick,
Here’s more information on the torture poll that was referenced in the Common Dreams article:
Torture Creep
Why are more Americans accepting Bush-era policies than ever before?
BY AMY ZEGART | SEPTEMBER 25, 2012
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/09/25/torture_creep
Excerpt:
A quarter of all Americans are willing to use nuclear weapons to kill terrorists. No joke. This was among many surprising findings in a new national poll that YouGov recently ran for me on hot-button intelligence issues. (The poll, conducted between Aug. 24 and 30, 2012, surveyed 1,000 people and has a margin of error of +/- 4 percentage points).
To be honest, I threw in the nuclear bomb question on a lark, not expecting to find much. Boy, was I wrong. Aside from learning that 25 percent of Americans would stop the next terrorist plot with a several-hundred-kiloton atomic bomb, the poll numbers suggest that Americans have become more hawkish on counterterrorism policy since Barack Obama became president.
Consider this: In an October 2007 Rasmussen poll, 27 percent of Americans surveyed said the United States should torture prisoners captured in the fight against terrorism, while 53 percent said it should not. In my YouGov poll, 41 percent said they would be willing to use torture — a gain of 14 points — while 34 percent would not, a decline of 19 points.
Sure, the devil is in the details. Poll responses are highly susceptible to question wording. So I had the pollsters ask some of the exact same questions in the exact same way that appeared in a January 2005 USA Today/CNN/Gallup poll, the most detailed pre-Obama poll on interrogation techniques that I could find. It turns out that Americans don’t just like the general idea of torture more now. They like specific torture techniques more too.
Respondents in 2012 are more pro-waterboarding, pro-threatening prisoners with dogs, pro-religious humiliation, and pro-forcing-prisoners-to-remain-naked-and-chained-in-uncomfortable-positions-in-cold-rooms. In 2005, 18 percent said they believed the naked chaining approach was OK, while 79 percent thought it was wrong. In 2012, 30 percent of Americans thought this technique was right, an increase of 12 points, while just 51 percent thought it was wrong, a drop of 28 points. In 2005, only 16 percent approved of waterboarding suspected terrorists, while an overwhelming majority (82 percent) thought it was wrong to strap people on boards and force their heads underwater to simulate drowning. Now, 25 percent of Americans believe in waterboarding terrorists, and only 55 percent think it’s wrong. The only specific interrogation technique that is less popular now than in 2005, strangely enough, is prolonged sleep deprivation.
nick,
You need to read my comments more carefully. I didn’t say that you had accused me of anything. I was attempting to make the point that one wouldn’t likely have a problem when linking to CNN and Gallup sites.
On what post did I “huff” two months ago that I only give “legit” links? Should I “Goggle” that?
I would like to take a moment to remember one of my fellow LEOs from the sheriff’s office who passed away three years ago today.
http://www.odmp.org/officer/20206-deputy-sheriff-john-mark-bernard
John Bernard died in a car accident while on duty, the exact cause was never fully determined. John’s son followed in his footsteps and was also a deputy with Grant County. We are all very lucky to have known him. He was very dedicated to his work and a friend to everyone who knew him.
We all miss you John, but we know you are in a better place. Hope to see you again when our time has come also.
Stay Safe Pal
In and out. On the way to clinic for blood thinner check.
NickS….Best I can say is go back and read your comments again on this thread. Can’t say that I have checked so don’t know if there is material to work with. But it was a method I used on many stages of my adaptation over the last year. With lots of encouragement (iron). Try a new years resolution if you find anything worth working with.. Fear does do things to me, as does pain as you and LJC have discussed.
Speaking for my own experiences of course. And it is pain that I feel when wounded emotionally by what I perceive as unfairness. The pain lies there unhelped in the background, tensing me, making walk with eyes alert for attack. Every word, particularly from some may be an attack. Hell for me living like that.
Glad you were in contact with a good acupuncturist. Helped me, more later with chronic inflammation in shoulder on one side. More later.
Stick around, just relax, take a deep breath if you feel attacked, back up a few comments and read again until you find the ignition point. What do you feel then. Now I sound like a gestalt therapist, Mine, not here.
Mark says your have been a valuable person. Good.
But examine yourself first.
I’ve been at fault for most of my life, so it is not a new practice.
Most have only wished you luck with your task as they see it. Lilywhite. No one is who has spoken to you.
But spinnnig on, exclusive clubs, regardless of race, usually are taken from the same neighborhood. They mostly share the same cultural formagtive process. So bring on board some mexican-american lawyers. But will they talk posole with ús. Or only the injustice of Nafta. We need both.
More later so stick around.
More later to all when have read the other comments. Hej då, /swedish).
Mike,
Bob is still around, just not as active. He’s had a lot going on in his life recently so I suspect lurking because of it, but I’ve had recent (yesterday) contact with him. He’s still Bob. 😀
Gene,
I know he’s still around, but back the it was daily.
I still remember being new here and trying to figure out what his signature closing : SIYOM meant. “Stay in your own movie”.
OS,
Good point about validity of sample spaces. Not all polls are created equal.
nick,
Unfortunately, 1) the poll found is newer, 2) it does not say what you claimed (“CNN had 54% approving but I didn’t see a party affiliation breakdown. But thanks for the effort @ least.” The data says 50% don’t think torture is should be allowed.), 3) it’s from a different polling company than Gallup, 4) there is no record of the CNN Gallup poll you cite. I tried many variations on searches looking for that data above (I can make Google dance btw), including “gallup 55% approve waterboarding”.
The closest match was from a 2009 Gallup poll stating that 55% of Americans believe in retrospect that the use of the interrogation techniques was justified (which does not mean it is legal, only that 55% of Americans don’t understand the science behind interrogation, are bent on revenge, or are sadists). It was not done in conjunction with CNN but rather a straight poll for Gallup, by Gallup. That’s reversible error, we can let that slide. That older data, however, does not comport with the newer CNN/ORC data. It also doesn’t correlate to newer data from a CBS poll asking a similar question to the Gallup poll.
The question asked by Gallup in 2009 was “Based on what you know or have read, do you think the use of harsh interrogation techniques for terrorism suspects were justified or not justified?”
Justified: 55%
Unjustified: 35%
A CBS poll from Nov. 6-10, 2011 is at the pollingreport.com site referenced above. In response to the question “Do you think it is sometimes justified to use waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation tactics to get information from a suspected terrorist, or are these tactics never justified?” the answers were:
Sometimes justified: 45%
Never justified: 40%
Depends (vol.): 6%
Unsure: 9%
This paints a statistically significant downward trend in those who think torture is justified matched by a nearly identical upward trend in those who think it is not justified, depends or are unsure.
You may have been right right four years ago, but you are off base on the latest polling data I could find which is only a little over a year old. In other words, you are wrong absent proof of newer polling data that indicates a 55% approval.
Using outdated data is either 1) a mistake or 2) cherry picking your data – which is a logical fallacy and bad scientific and statistical practice. In this case, I’m voting mistake. You thought your old data was good, but newer data changed the picture and you were simply unaware of it. It happens. Not a big deal in this context.
Memory is no substitute for proof. It is fallible for a variety of reasons. For that reason, most lawyers hate having to rely solely upon eyewitness testimony if they can use forensic evidence (which includes documents and electronic records like video). This is why technical professions cite and why you cite specific claims in debate if they are not common knowledge such as “the sky is blue” or “the atomic weight of hydrogen is 1”. If you aren’t willing to use links to data you claim is valid, you must expect people to accept what you say as true without proof when your claim is challenged.
Good luck with that. That’s a kite no one can fly.
Don’t worry about other people’s computer security. Provide cites. If you are unsure about the validity of the site you’ve linked to? Say so. Any link to some place like CNN or Gallup is 99.9% going to be okay. If you’re linking to “Vladimir’s Mobile Statistic Emporium and Russian Porn Hut” or some other way off the path place? Use your discretion, but at least tell people where you got the information with some specificity so they can find it on their own. Most peoples virus scanners and firewalls will catch the majority of malicious content. If they don’t? It’s their fault for not having them configured properly and up to date on their virus definitions. The Askimet software used in the spam filter for WordPress will catch a fair amount of bad sites on its own (in which case your post with the link simply won’t post and automatically go into the spam filter). If a bad link does get through here (and I’ve seen it happen before) someone will chime in pretty quick as a general rule and say the link is hinky, stay away.
ap,
I second the kudos on the Van Buren article. It amazes me that we are still discussing an illegal interrogation tactic. We have prosecuted American soldiers for waterboarding, as well as Japanese soldiers. The rule of law should control.
Mespo,
I had forgotten that we have been commenting since at least 2008! I am getting old!
Elaine M.,
Thanks for the Peter Van Buren article/link.
I do not trust polls of the general public on almost anything. Especially whether something is torture or not. This is the same general public for whom a huge percentage do not believe in evolution, and that our President is a secret Muslim Kenyan. Ask people who know, like former POWs or psychologists who are not on the CIA payroll. Then look at the percentages. That poll has not been done yet.
Goodnight all. Don’t let the bed bugs bite!
SWM, You are a breath of fresh air from Austin. Thanks for the helpful info. I’ll keep an eye out for Eniobob.
Elaine, I went through this same dance w/ you a month or 2 prior. I said I don’t do links, you huffed “I only give legit links.” I feel like I’m watching Groundhog Day! Please bookmark this thread for future reference. And, pease read very carefully what I wrote @ 9:43p. I Did not say you did anything wrong I said I DID a couple years back. As you see from my dear friend Gene’s comment and link, the #’s are what I gave @ 9:14p but I had CNN and Gallup backwards which I corrected @ 9:43p. Gene didn’t break it down by political party like I did @ 9:14p, but if you click on his link you’ll see that also. The aforementioned Gallup was from 2009 where 55% approved the waterboarding conducted and 51% still abide waterboarding as an interrogation technique. Can you now give me your response to these polls vis a’ vis your poll.
It should be noted that in the second question, neither side has a statistical significance due to margin of error, i.e. 50/50 would be an acceptable reading of that data.
Funny. I don’t find any CNN Gallup polls on the matter of waterboarding but I do find a CNN/ORC poll on the matter from Nov. 18-20, 2011. It’s the latest date found.
The questions are followed by summary totals:
“In a procedure known as ‘waterboarding,’ interrogators produce the sensation of drowning by either dunking a restrained prisoner in water or pouring water over the prisoner’s face. Do you consider this procedure to be a form of torture, or not?”
Torture: 68%
Not Torture: 31%
Unsure: 1%
“In a procedure known as ‘waterboarding,’ interrogators produce the sensation of drowning by either dunking a restrained prisoner in water or pouring water over the prisoner’s face. Do you think the U.S. government should or should not be allowed to use this procedure to attempt to get information from suspected terrorists?”
Should be allowed: 50%
Should not be allowed: 49%
Unsure: 2%
The full break down (and other polling) can be found here: http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm
A Google search and searches of CNN and Gallup did not reveal any relevant results other than the above (all older data).
nick,
I’m not going to Google anything. You stated those percentages as fact. Back up your claims…if you can.
nick,
Good excuse. All of the links that I’ve posted on this blog have been “legit.” I haven’t had any problems. I would think you could post a link to that Gallup poll on waterboarding. I doubt there would be a problem.
Can’t Google???? The numbers are there and I stand by them..willing to put cash down on it!