Shawn Moore is a certified firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association and a New Jersey hunter education instructor. He was proud of his son for recently passing his hunter’s permit course and posted this picture of his boy in camouflage holding his .22 rifle. A Facebook “friend” saw the picture and reported him to the New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families for child endangerment. Moore says that his home was raided, searched, and he was threatened with the loss of custody in response to the complaint.
While not commenting on the alleged raid, Department Spokesperson Kristen Brown said. “We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry.” That is a bit surprising if the allegation describes lawful conduct. Children are allowed to hunt in New Jersey. I had assumed that there was some screening that occurs. Moreover, I am not sure why there is no intermediate step short of the search of the home.
Moore says that he received an text message from his wife that the Carneys Point Police Dept. and the New Jersey Dept. of Children and Families were at the home demanding to see his guns and gun safe. The officers were told by his lawyer to leave the home absent a warrant. He says that that officers responded that the demand for them to get a warrant was “suspicious” behavior. If true, that would be highly abusive and unconstitutional. A citizen invoking their rights does not create reasonable suspicion, let alone probable cause. While the officers said that they would get a warrant, he says that they never returned.
It does strike me as odd that anyone can trigger such an action based on a photo that does not show any illegal action or conduct that is demonstrably dangerous in a state where children are allowed to hunt and shoot such weapons.
What do you think?
Source: Yahoo
OS – If you want to find your PI – let me know.
http://www.wallinvestigations.com
pete,
“hell, they didn’t even shoot his dog.”
You optimist you.
********
As the story unfolded over the course of the day, I’ll have to say that my concerns of rights abuses by the police have been assuaged. They left appropriately when a warrant was mentioned. However, the CPS staffer refusing her identity? Still totally unacceptable. It may be legal, but it sure as Hell isn’t right. Good, bad, indifferent, irrelevant – they have in their position unique powers to destroy families and that alone should merit their identification when asked for mandatory.
********
Rick,
Apparently you failed your spelling assignments. Seriously, what kind of Neanderthal retrograde macho illiterate illegal unethical gibberish is “Nothing spells justice more than a bullet in the head”? Justice is a far more complicated issue than slaking a personal taste for bloody revenge. And I do apologize. That was a terrible thing to say about Neanderthals.
The 2nd amendment is supposed to insure nobody f**ks with the other 9. The govt and fascists have been getting ballsy lately however.
Btw I am a Liberal so dont even go there.
Nothing spells justice more than a bullet in the head
Darren.
Spot on. It is a problem. I know a private investigator who made an excellent living exposing false allegations of child abuse. I just looked him up and find he must have retired. His web site domain name is now closed. Almost all the cases of false allegations of child abuse he exposed over a thirty-five year period were due to children’s services believing everything they were told. Even the most minimal investigation would have revealed it was in the context of a nasty divorce and child custody case, which is the biggest red flag of all. There were several false allegation cases which were revealed as extortion attempts.
I mentioned the case here before, but children’s services convinced the local DA to charge a mentally challenged elementary school boy with rape. The kid had no concept of sex, or even why his “dingus” sometimes got hard and stuck out.
Now I am going to do the same and back out of this thread.
from the article
“I don’t like what happened,” he said. “You’re not even safe in your own house. If they can just show up at any time and make you open safes and go through your house, that’s not freedom; it’s like tyranny.”
only they didn’t gain access to his house or his safe.
so how is he not safe? how is it “like tyranny”?
they came, he said “go away” they left.
hell, they didn’t even shoot his dog.
Such sympathy for a smiling 11 year old child all dressed up in his cool camo outfit holding a tricked-out 22 on this thread and like sympathy on another thread for the armed homeowner who shot and killed the 16 year old drunk kid who got lost and entered the wrong house.
It’s all so touching … surreal … oops, make that so real.
Darren Smith
Excellent and pertinent comment as usual on these issues. Right on the money.
C
Elaine M. wrote:
“How does a DCF/CPS worker know if a child has/has not been abused…
“Excerpt from the Yahoo article:
“The weapon in the photo, posted by his dad on Facebook, resembles a military-style assault rifle but, his father says, is actually just a .22-caliber copy.”
_________________
Firstly, the quote directly above from the Yahoo article is complete nonsense. It’s not a “copy”; it’s simply a MODERN .22 caliber rifle, with a plastic composite stock that happens to be black in color. It only “resembles a military-style assault rifle” to people with no knowledge of firearms who have been bamboozled and deliberately scared nearly witless by political hacks and hypocrites such as US Senator Dianne Feinstein who want them to believe that every modern rifle is an “assault rifle.”
Regarding “military-style”: anyone with a room temperature IQ or better, even with no firearms knowledge, should understand the absurdity of suggesting the legality of a firearm should be determined based on its “style.”
Secondly, regarding the very first quoted line at top:
That would apply, were there to be an anonymous complaint, for instance, of a child being kept in a cage in the basement. But this situation, based on a PHOTOGRAPH of a smiling 11-year old, obviously properly trained, holding a firearm of a caliber that tens of thousands of children of that age have owned for decades, is not at all similar. The complaint should have been ignored or, at most, the investigator should have questioned the complainer (if available), or sought expertise, if needed, to determine that there was nothing suspicious or illegal depicted by the photograph. The family need never have been contacted.
The manner in which this was handled reminds me of the increasing harassment of legal gun-owners in states where open-carry is legal. Gun-phobic ignoramuses call the police because they’re oh so frightened by a citizen legally and properly carrying a firearm, even a properly-holstered handgun; rather than the police explaining to these idiots that there’s nothing suspicious or illegal about what they’re witnessing, the cops use it as an excuse to harass the legal gunowner.
Folks, especially Elaine.
I hope that everyone else has relatives that might be as dedicated and good as Elaine’s person who is with CPS and certainly there are those in various states who are good investigators. But in all the years I worked in LE I had only two experiences where CPS did what I would consider to be the right thing, ALL the other experiences I had with them ranged from at best incompetence and at worse what I would consider to be civil rights violations that greatly distressed too many families.
I have worked with a great number of various agencies, including probably 30 or more state, local, and county police agencies, the FBI, the US Marshal’s Service, ATF, Customs and Border Protection, ICE, DEA, Secret Service, Military Police, NCIS, USDA, Railroad Police, Fish and Wildlife, Forest Service LE, Liquor Control Board, CPS, and probably a few others that are not coming to mind presently. Of all these agencies, CPS was by far the worst to deal with and I had so many bad experiences and witnessed such outrageous actions I really do not care to rile myself up thinking about them. In fact, my blood pressure probably went up 20 points just writing this response, so I cannot imagine what it must be like to be some of the parents that have been railroaded by these guys.
I think I just need to recuse myself from this discussion. You all have valid points and I respect your opinions but this topic is just making me too PO’ed to be a good commenter.
Lloyd Miller,
What raid?
Everyone associated with this raid should not only be fired but prosecuted to the full extent of the law, ruining their lives completely, if at all possible!
I think the reason that things get so heated in these discussions is that the level of ignorance is incredible on many sides. For example, some think that it is reason to call child welfare when they see a photo of a kid on his fathers facebook page with a “scary” looking gun. We now know the photo WAS the reason for the visit from CPS Since it is not illegal, nor even poor taste to many other people, this hysteria is outlandish. Those who think that such a photo is justifiable grounds for calling CPS are wrong. It is that simple. If I see a picture of you holding your child on facebook, and I don’t like how you are doing it, then CPS should come out and investigate if I call the CPS? The other problem is the FACT that the anti-gun people cannot even correctly identify the guns they complain about. It is like a non-pilot telling a 15,000 hrs Captain how to fly his airplane or make criticisms of how he did it. Most people would consider such a person a FOOL! Likewise to call semi-automatic rifles assault weapons is not only a lie, but reveals willful ignorance and prejudice. Willfully lying out of malice does not make for civil discussion.
Then we have the other side in which any legal questioning by the cops is tantamount to confiscation, or oppression. In this case, the cops did nothing wrong, and the only person who did do something wrong was the CPS woman. To say that such a thing makes the US a police state is absurd too. In a police state, the cops would have not left, searched the house, and arrested the man.
East of the Mississippi the Ten Commandments dont apply.
It was made to look like an assault rifle”. Why would you want to do that? honestly, I don’t understand that and I do understand coming out to the house. A phone call “Sir, is your child posing with an assault rifle and do you have more assault rifles and are they all registered? Are they locked away? Should we have any concern your child or others may be in danger?” Oh no, they are registered and my child, and no other people or children are in danger. Oh ok, we believe you.
Princess Diana’s dress sold? omg. I missed it!!!
CPS has a difficult job and most such workers have a heavy workload. I never considered such a job. I knew that my life would too stressful b/c I would take the work home with me. I know of neglect and abuse. I grew up with it and carry the guilt scars of being powerless to prevent it for my siblings.
Such a stressful job can lead to errors of judgement. In this case, I think an investigation was warranted. If the facebook picture was instigation, I would think that a police officer would be able to identify the gun. Most such pictures also include a caption, e.g. Jr. just graduated from training at gun safety camp.
I would expect CPS to look into the complaint and I wouldn’t expect a CPS person to be able to identify the weapon. She was wise to take a police officer with her. Once it was determined that it was a 22-caliber, that the photo was a celebration picture for a gun safety course that should have been the end of it. The parents should not have been upset that questions were asked. The police should not have been upset that permission to search the home was denied.
No charges in case of NJ boy pictured with gun
1 hour ago • Associated Press
http://santamariatimes.com/news/national/no-charges-in-case-of-nj-boy-pictured-with-gun/article_70c683cd-5f69-5c62-8b0e-8854f165f434.html
No charges will be filed against a man who posted online a photo of his young son holding what appeared to be a military-style rifle, police said Wednesday.
In a moment of heightened sensitivity around guns and gun control, the brief saga had the makings of a debate starter between people who oppose guns and those who say authorities are overzealous about even legal weapons.
Police in Carneys Point, a town of 8,000 some 30 miles southwest of Philadelphia, gave their version Wednesday, days after the boy’s father, Shawn Moore, brought attention to the issue, saying that state child welfare workers and police in SWAT gear showed up at his home because of the online photos.
Moore first posted a comment about the incident on a gun rights website and within days was appearing with his son, Josh, on a Fox News talk show and elsewhere. Moore said that the weapon was a .22-caliber rifle made to look like an assault rifle and that it was a gift for Josh’s upcoming 11th birthday.
In a statement, Carney Point Police Chief Robert DiGregorio and Mayor Richard Gatanis said officers went to the family’s home at about 8:15 p.m. Friday after getting anonymous tips that a boy there might have access to weapons and ammunition.
“In light of some of the recent school shootings across our nation, the Carneys Point Police Department takes these types of calls seriously,” they said, adding that they were obligated to go there with state Department of Children and Family caseworkers who requested assistance.
Moore had said the authorities requested to see his weapons, but with his lawyer on a speakerphone he denied them access because they did not have a search warrant.
The Carneys Point officials said the officers _ in night uniforms and body armor but not SWAT gear _ did not attempt an unlawful search.
The officials said that they respect citizens’ rights to own weapons and that several officers knew the elder Moore from a shooting club.
Moore’s lawyer, Evan Nappen, said the problem is the idea that the government could respond to people talking about or with photos of weapons on social media.
“This is a shame because of the impact it has on a really good dad and his son,” Nappen said. “No one was in danger.”
He said the state Department of Children and Families was aggressive and intimidating and could have avoided the situation by calling first.
A department spokesman did not return calls Wednesday, but said Tuesday _without commenting on the specific case _ that the department routinely checks on tips it receives.
The department has been under years of court-monitoring and has been criticized in several cases where children who died or were in peril were not checked on.
leejcarroll,
That;s right. They’re involved in reporting more important stuff–like Sarah Palin drinking a “big gulp” at CPAC.
The media doesn’t have time what with Lindsey Lohan, and the Arias woman, and how much Princess Diana’s dress sold for, etc.
junctionshamus,
“That would be a trending topic of concern. And with the present administration wanting warrantless taps of e-mails and cell phone conversation, you’re not too far off base.”
I have been concerned about the Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, indefinite detention, etc., for some time. I have been disappointed that members of the news media haven’t gotten their knickers in a twist over what has been happening to our civil liberties. I have also been surprised that more Americans aren’t outraged by such things.
I was surprised a t that little toss aside about the drinking. Just in case you think we were wrong so how magnanimous we were.
(and I like to think I am merely paranoid but you do sometimes have to wonder who is taking a peek at what you say and write)