Criminal Defense Attorney Demands Evidence of Missing Call in Car Robbery Case . . . From The NSA

200px-national_security_agencysvgI was interviewed yesterday in an extraordinary case out of South Florida where Attorney Marshall Dore Louis faced a problem that phone records material to his defense of a car robbery suspect have disappeared. Accordingly, he is seeking the records from one resource that has stored every call from every citizen: the National Security Agency (NSA). After all, the Administration has admitted the existence of the storage and program. After that, Dore is arguing that it is just another government agency with material evidence. Indeed, the NSA wanted a complete record of all calls to store and it is now being called upon to hand over material evidence in its possession.

Clearly, NSA views this program as a one way street and will not yield willingly to being a resource of litigators. The interesting question will be how it now objects. In the past, the government has refused to confirm such programs but it has now done so. In February, the Administration succeeded in blocking a challenge to its surveillance policies by arguing that any confirmation of such programs would put American lives at risk. Now that the case is dismissed, they have simply acknowledged the program. The decision is Clapper v. Amnesty International, No. 11-1025, and it is a true nightmare for civil liberties. The Supreme Court rejected the standing of civil liberties groups and citizens to challenge the Obama Administration’s surveillance programs. President Obama has long been criticized for his opposition to such lawsuits and his Justice Department has continued a successful attack on the ability of citizens to challenge the unconstitutional actions of their government in the war on terror. The 5-4 opinion by Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. insulates such programs from judicial review in yet another narrowing of standing rules.

While insisting that disclosing such programs would put lives at risk to secure the dismissal of the Clapper case, the Administration readily did so a couple months later. That has not only removed the prior national security barrier but has raised questions over the truth of Clapper’s own testimony.

Dore says that the prosecutors have informed him that a month of the records of defendant Terrance Brown are missing for two phones. His provider, MetroPCS, says it has no longer has them. Then Dore was reading the newspapers and found an agency who helpfully collected all calls for all citizens. If the program is no longer secret and the calls were obtained directly from the carriers (without some secret method or device), what is the objection from the government beyond that it finds such requests a hassle. Are they ready to come to court and say that they are the government and they are not here to actually help citizens . . . just spy on them.

It is particularly ironic to seek access to this program to protect due process after the program itself blew away so many other constitutional rights. It is like an 11th Century Englishman stopping some Vikings for directions. They would like respond “we really are not there to help you.”

The government is likely going to win but it will be fascinating to watch them deal with the demand.

Source: Politico

41 thoughts on “Criminal Defense Attorney Demands Evidence of Missing Call in Car Robbery Case . . . From The NSA

  1. Lol…. If they are held in the regular course of business…. What’s the objection…. Classic…. You gotta love it..,.

  2. People seeking to make another a criminal do not know that their sinful body that dies is in Gods eyes criminal. That body decimates all life not able to living in Gods perfect light. knowing this why call anyone a criminal?

  3. I’m telling you, it can be obtained through back channels for probably less than 5 figures. Although, the chain of custody would be a problem.

  4. Before the American people dismantle this USA Gestapo system can we 1st get the records from NSA/etc…, so we can see the details of Holder & DHS & their now admitted drill to bomb Boston with backpacks earlier this year & their not admitted yet Marshal Law crack down drill afterwards.

    I’d like also to hear what FBI agents think about their 2 FBI buddies that were working the Boston case & then a few weeks later both slipped & fell out of a helicopter.

    Fast/Furious, etc.,etc….

    Yes, just turn the Nazis camera around & aim them right back at the Nazis.

  5. I would file a notice of deposition of the head of the NSA, Keith whats his name, who has lied to Congress so much he looks like a clown. Is a liar to Congress a “betrayer”? Like Jeffrey Toobin who cheated on his wife and sired an out of wedlock kid and lied about it with two cheatin hearts, this NSA Head has lied to Congress. Traitors both, one to wifeypoo and the other to those who sit in Congress who are old, senile, deaf, dumb (more ways than involving the ears) and owned by the Koch Brothers. It all makes Bill Clintons story about not porkin the gal with the cigar look like small fish. I wouldn’t have had sex with that woman either Bill. Kind of cow face. But, the Clinton thing is neither here nor there or where he said it wasn’t. This NSA program is about the worst offense to national sovereignty since our Founding. Can someone find Feinstein a hearing aid? She must not have heard Clapper’s testimony or Keith, the Liar, whatshis name.

  6. For clarity I’d add I believe those FBI agents are likely very p*ssed about their buddies accident & would also like to know the truth as to what happened to them.

    Accidents happen, but this is another case that seems very odd.

  7. All the lawyer needs here is a smidgeon of MegaData. What a great word they concocted. There was some national security expert on CNN last night explaining how this megadata was so important. Yeah, it would have kept nine Saudis with box cutters from getting on planes at Logan Airport. The NSA has not figured out Piglatin yet and neither has WordPress. But the NSA has figured out dolphin talk and dog talk, Be rest assured on that one. Baaark! Well, that one got by.

  8. Next time some group of voters elects some guy or gal from Saturday Night Live to the Senate let it be Chevy Chase. Al Franken was a mistake. He looks dumb and looks like he went in dumb and come out dumb too. It turns out that he is dumb. Or a patsy for the Koch Brothers. No offense Patsy Kline.

  9. One thing I have mentioned before is that it’s taking to much time for everyone to address these one off important issues & this constant game of Whack-A-Mole.

    From the very little I’ve been able to figure out about this USA Gestapo Spy Grid is that it tracks outwardly & inward.

    That means to me it could/might be used to track those in/around govt, like congressmen, govt contractors,etc…, that are or have been engaged corruption, treason, vote rigging or other types govt tyranny.

    Turn over the Data Feinstein & let everyone see who’s helping you destroy the country.

    (And if she is doing nothing wrong she has nothing to worry about!)

    The only problem with that idea I see is that this current USA Gestapo Spy Grid is completely illegal under the Constitution.

  10. On the one hand, I now have a single storage location for all of my telephone and email records. On the other, the NSA disclosures raise some interesting questions about the confidentiality of attorney-client communications. Will lawyers now have to rely solely on snail mail and in-person meetings with clients?

  11. ** The Absurdity of the US Ministry of Propaganda: People Quitting Jobs is a Sign of Confidence!
    smartknowledgeu’s picture
    Submitted by smartknowledgeu on 06/13/2013 06:39 -0400

    Vladimir Putin


    Today, as reported on ZeroHedge, Chinese dissident AiWeiwei declared, “The US is behaving like China.” Also this week, ex-CIA employee Edward Snowden’s revelation of massive US government spying on US citizens immediately drew comparisons to Nazi S.S. tactics, and to top it off, Russian President Vladimir Putin chided US President Obama’s declaration that “you can’t have 100% security and 100% privacy” by stating, “You can’t just listen to the phone call in Russia; you need a special order from court. This is how this should be done in civilized society while tackling terrorism with the use of any technical means. If it is in the framework of the law, then it’s ok. If not it is unacceptable.” All in all, not a good week for the 3-headed bankster-politician-military complex monster. So what do we need to make all zombies feel better? The US Ministry of Propaganda (known to all US citizens as the mainstream media) to come to the rescue, of course! Every week, the US financial media spouts so much rubbish, from Nouriel Roubini’s declaration that gold will crash, to declarations of “soaring” Japanese yen (a misleading semantics lesson I will shred in future articles), that often it is very difficult to select which article dispensed by the mainstream media is the most misleading of them all. **

  12. Blouise, “And I suppose the incompetent “experts” at NSA couldn’t see this one coming?”, Yep, I think this is exactly the case. They never expected that this secret database would be unsecret. Thus, no thought to what might happen if it became public knowledge.

  13. The government is likely going to win but it will be fascinating to watch them deal with the demand.”

    Maybe not.

    We have seen some tipping points.

    The FISA court just ruled against the government in a case that started a FISA opinion website.

    The government refused to release an 86 page opinion that held the government was violating the 4th Amendment with its NSA thingy.

    The EFF went to FISC and they excoriated the government, and as icing on the cake, published the opinon on their new website.

    The NSA is a military operation with a three or so star general as its head, collecting data from people it expresses some enmity towards:

    A new report by the U.S. Army War College talks about the possibility of Pentagon resources and troops being used should the economic crisis lead to civil unrest, such as protests against businesses and government or runs on beleaguered banks.

    “Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security,” said the War College report.

    The study says economic collapse, terrorism and loss of legal order are among possible domestic shocks that might require military action within the U.S.

    (On The Origin of Security – 2). Let’s hope the lawyer is aware of some of this … so as to help him or her prevail.

  14. ** A new report by the U.S. Army War College talks about the possibility of Pentagon resources and troops being used should the economic crisis lead to civil unrest, such as protests against businesses and government or runs on beleaguered banks **


    We could/should ask why does the US Army War College think people might get angry & protest?

    Well it could be the people figure out some of these businesses are intentional poisoning them to the point they could die.

    Take a look at this latest peer review study on GMO crops.

    I believe this is just one piece of the many soft kill weapons being used against us all.:

    GMO feed turns pig stomachs to mush! Shocking photos reveal severe damage caused by GM soy and corn

    (NaturalNews) If you have stomach problems or gastrointestinal problems, a new study led by Dr. Judy Carman may help explain why: pigs fed a diet of genetically engineered soy and corn showed a 267% increase in severe stomach inflammation compared to those fed non-GMO diets. In males, the difference was even more pronounced: a 400% increase. (For the record, most autistic children are males, and nearly all of them have severe intestinal inflammation.)

  15. Actually, having a national database like the NSA’s could be very helpful for old people who have trouble remembering the contents of a phone call or who accidentally deleted a needed email. The NSA could just have a hotline where we could dial in our request for them to locate what we have forgotten or lost. What a boon it could be to 80 million aging boomers.

  16. I have no doubt we in the US are under attack from every direction, that there is a war & it’s against us, the people.

    I don’t think some people can see it because it doesn’t look like WW2, Korea, Nam…

    It looks like some of the pieces I keep describing.

    If the same type people that built the Nazis decide to attempt another try at complete fascism what would modern fascism look like?

    The current Wallst/London banking system would be key.

    But if they wanted to get rid of large masses of people they’d know from WW2 the people of the world can’t stand seeing people lined up in a ditch & shot in the head.

    That is why from the looks of the evidence I see they/the modern Nazi types are using soft kill weapons against us.

    One of the places we can see huge death rates amassing is in the rapidly increasing cancer rates & other diseases.

    Why are these Cancer/Disease rates soaring? What’s is causing the increase?

    This new piece of data below is about Britain, but I can see movement by the polecats in the US preparing to deal with our own stats.

    Take a look, apply those same percentage this report to the US’s pop & see something about what your family’s/friend’s health might be in just 6.5 years.

    You really never thought they’d pay you that promise/insurance of a old age pension did you?

    That was stolen years ago & that’s another reason they/modern Nazis likely have to attempt to kill off us Baby Boomers.


    In modern Britain, we can all live longer … at our peril
    Ian Bell
    Saturday 8 June 2013

    LONGEVITY is beginning to look like the race that can’t be won.

    Freed from the curse of early death, we start to realise that health, long life and happiness do not necessarily go together. Nor do they come cheap.

    The headline statistic supplied by Macmillan Cancer Support is startling in any number of ways to the lay people among us. As a society we are living longer. This means, surely, that we are healthier. Yet by 2020, 47% of us can expect to have endured one or other form of cancer.

    That’s not what is commonly described as healthy. Equally, on one, semi-intuitive understanding of the situation, things are getting worse. In 1992, 32% could expect to suffer cancer at some time; in 2010, the figure was 44% **

  17. MikeA, You’ll just need to do what organized criminals do, throw away trac phones and pay telephones[endangered species].

  18. His provider, MetroPCS, says it has no longer has them. Then Dore was reading the newspapers and found an agency who helpfully collected all calls for all citizens. If the program is no longer secret and the calls were obtained directly from the carriers (without some secret method or device), what is the objection from the government beyond that it finds such requests a hassle.
    The IRS was supposed to provide all the emails during the discovery process. They didn’t. I already had most of them.

  19. Director of the Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics at Harvard University and founder of Stanford Law School’s Center for Internet and Society Larry Lessig stopped by to speak with Bill Moyers about how the government should be using its ability to control information to protect its citizens’ privacy rather than exploit it.

  20. U.S. Tax payer monies spent on military spy operations against the US Tax payer…
    … Now, how do we cut the head off that snake?

    I think starvation is a cleaner solution… IMO.

  21. Michael Murry,
    The Music budget has been eliminated due to necessary austerity budget cuts due to the ballooning overhead of National Security…

  22. Where retired military “intelligence” goes to make a killing — in more ways than one:

    Boobie Contract Mercenaries
    (from Fernando Po, U.S.A., America’s post-linguistic retreat to Plato’s Cave)

    “One rag-head looks like all the rest,”
    The contract Cadmus drawls.
    “To dead-check camel-jockeys takes
    No necessary balls.
    Just pay me my six-figures and
    I’ll shoot him as he crawls.”

    “I’ve got my Ray-Ban glasses
    And I’ve got my SUV;
    And I can tilt my M-16
    To just the right degree,
    Which dainty pose warns bad guys of
    My cool ferocity.”

    The bow-tied cable pundit thought
    He’d get in on the scrum
    And joy ride through Iraq’s mean streets
    With mercenary scum
    To school him in some righteous thrills
    They drove him through a slum

    To get into the swing of things
    They issued him a gun
    So they could rob a petrol stand
    And take their gas and run
    While weary, thirsty customers
    Camped waiting in the sun

    And so as not to have to wait
    In traffic not so fast
    The mercenary hired guns
    Pull out their guns and blast
    Iraqi cars off of the street
    So they can blaze right past

    Of course these bald activities
    Do not endear the goons
    To normal Muslim people who
    Don’t patronize saloons
    So when they get the chance they grease
    These overpaid poltroons

    They love to play at soldiering
    But not for petty cash
    And not for what Sir Winston called
    “Rum, sodomy, and lash”
    But for a chance to dance at some
    Inauguration bash

    Michael Murry, “The Misfortune Teller,” Copyright © 2005

    I just love it when all those elected representatives of ours tell us that their lavishly funded corporate camp followers and dogs-of-war mercenaries won’t allow them to see all the “intelligence” stuff because they don’t have the “security clearance” for it. How much clearance does a person need in order to understand four charred mercenary corpses hanging from a bridge and the subsequent Vengeance and Retribution Operation by the U.S. Marine Corps that leveled a city of 300,000 in “retaliation”? How much super-secret clearance does one need to understand “Falluja.”

  23. “Once in 1967 after a somewhat pessimistic briefing by John Vann, [Walt] Rostow, slightly shaken, said, ‘But you do admit it’s all be over in six months.’ ‘Oh,’ said Vann somewhat airily, ‘I think we can hold out longer than that.'” — David Halberstam, The Best and the Brightest

    Given all that “secret” stuff that our “intelligence community” claims to know about something or other (“to a significant degree of confidence”), one has to wonder: For how many more Friedman Units can the United States hold out in Afghanistan — 24 FUs and counting so far — until the Afghans give us the same word the Vietnamese did forty years ago?

    From the Best and the Brightest to the Worst and the Dullest in a single generation.

  24. Daniel Ellsberg once said that we should not consider our government officials stupid just because they do obviously stupid things. Rather, he said, we should think of them as “clever people who have lost their minds.”

    On the other hand, we have the Forrest Gump way of looking at the world:

    “Stupid is as stupid does.”

    I have the greatest respect for Daniel Ellsberg and his admirable restraint, but with regard to America’s so-called “intelligence community” — especially the militarized NSA — I’ve got to go with Gump.

  25. Published on Jun 13, 2013 – As NSA director General Keith Alexander blasts the leaks that exposed widespread surveillance of Americans, we’re joined by Chris Pyle, a former military instructor who exposed the CIA’s monitoring of millions of Americans in the 1970s. Pyle discovered the CIA was spying on millions of Americans engaged in lawful political activity while he was in the Army working as an instructor. His revelations prompted Senate hearings, including Senator Frank Church’s Select Committee on Intelligence, ultimately leading to a series of laws aimed at curbing government abuses. Now teaching constitutional law and civil liberties at Mount Holyoke College, Pyle says the NSA is known for attacking its critics instead of addressing the problems they expose.

  26. Thanks for the link, Max-1.

    “There were about 1500 Army agents in plain clothes watching every demonstration in the United States of twenty people or more … As a result of those disclosures and the Congressional hearings the entire US Army Intelligence Command was abolished.”

    Unfortunately for the United States, it looks like the salutary abolition of US Army intelligence didn’t last long, so that now we have all these “talented” people back feeding off us again — calling themselves the NSA this time — and making military music look even worse by comparison.

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