Forbes has a story on the ranking of law school on employment placement and salaries. I am happy to report that George Washington has placed within top ten schools. The dip in the legal market has affected applications at top schools but overall the impact is felt more severely at the lower ranked law schools. While legal education remains expensive, it remains a good investment for many students. The problem occurs at law schools with low bar passage rates and employment placement. We previously discussed how some of the lowest ranked schools report the highest levels of debt for students. There are some law schools which have dubious academic programs and even more dubious claims of placement. Frankly, some paring of law schools would be a benefit in this economic downturn as would more demanding certification standards by the American Bar Association.
It is important to emphasize that I do not subscribe to the ranking of law school on placement figures or treating law school as merely a trade school needed to secure high-paying jobs. I have opposed the self-destructive efforts of some professors (and President Obama) to strip down law schools to a two-year program to crank out more lawyers with less education. Despite the dislike for lawyers reflected in jokes and commentary, they play a critical role in our society and our law students are building on a long and proud legacy. This is a graduate school that sits at the junction of philosophy, economics, history, and public service. A J.D. degree offers more than a meal ticket.
However, given the large investment of our students, it is good to see these figures. At Columbia Law School, the price of a three-year J.D. is now nearly $250,000.
Only 56.2% of 2012 grads had found full employment at the time of reporting to the ABA. That percentage again is a bit deceiving since it is much higher as you move down the rankings in laws school as a general matter. The unemployment rate for new lawyers ticked up to 10.6% from 9.2% in the prior year.
Here is the ranking:
1. Columbia Law School
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 99%
Median starting salary: $160,000
2. University of Chicago Law School
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 99%
Median starting salary: $160,000
3. University of Pennsylvania Law School
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 98%
Median starting salary: $160,000
4. Harvard Law School
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 96%
Median starting salary: $160,000
5. New York University School of Law
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 97%
Median starting salary: $160,000
6. University of California at Berkeley School of Law
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 96%
Median starting salary: $160,000
7. Northwestern University School of Law
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 91%
Median starting salary: $160,000
8. Georgetown University Law Center
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 92%
Median starting salary: $160,000
9. The George Washington University Law School
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 95%
Median starting salary: $137,000
10. University of Southern California Gould School of Law
Percent of grads employed 9 months out: 86%
Median starting salary: $145,000
I was sure right about you Spinelli!
travelling limey, I suggest you start holding your breath right…Now! Keep holding, keep holding, don’t quit, a response from Mr. Turley will be coming soon. HOLD….HOLD……….hold…………………………..hold.
Sometimes….you just gotta wonder about the human race.
Obviously GW is more than a law school. It was also L Ron Hubbard’s alma mater. I wonder why you, Mr Turley, have such an undying dislike for this, the most prolific writer ever? He was in Engineering, of course, but the same university as yours. I must say, I heard you on PRI about a month ago talking from GW. I was impressed with your talk on that subject; sounded very reasonable. All the more of a puzzle why you listen to BS on LRH & ignore the facts. Of course, this will bring the nutcases out on this site, some of which initiate blogs for you, but I’m looking for an honest Turley answer from the man himself.
Nick,
My Dreamer is a straight A student, an altar boy, a member of the Young Republicans, supports his widowed mother, president of the student council and an Eagle Scout. Unfortunately, he wears no braces.
Are you going to tell me he is not fit to be an officer of the court and the a$$hat of a judge two blogs back is? Or some of the other officers of the court we have me here? And how about all the officers of the law, cops, we have met here? Or prosecutors we’ve met? Or others that work in the justice system but do not know what constitutes bribery.
I’ll take a thousand of my Dreamers vs those idiots. And our country ANDthe law will be better served.
I’ll plead guilty on my mistake, as did the honorable GW law student.
Regarding my choice of the market glut. I also said, “and other reasons.” Having worked in our justice system, I assume folks realize attorneys are officers of the court. Therefore, to have people who are here illegally, be officers of the court is borderline insane. That’s why I chose an economic reason, assuming everyone here realized the insanity of having illegal officers of the court. I was mistaken, you didn’t realize that basic fact.
My son has a lot to do w/ it. People from many countries yearn to get here and do it legally. When I say in the US Embassy in Bogota I saw a young couple applying for a visa. They had a daughter, ~7, wearing braces. The embassy worker had the girl walk so he could see if she was going to be a liability to the US government. I don’t know the outcome. This bureaucrat smiled, and walked back into his office. I LOVE Hispanic people. I think they are some the best immigrants coming to the US. I want a path to citizenship for those here illegally. I do not want people here illegally to be officers of the court. I don’t want illegal cops, prison employees, etc. WTF are we debating?
I can see no reason for the children of illegals to get any consideration with the so called DREAM act. Most of those kids were not brought here as infants, have lots of ties to their native countries, and speak their native language fluently. If that were not the case, we would have little need for bi-lingual education and its costs.
As for the outstanding DREAMer cited, if he were discovered to be enrolled in the school from out of district, there would be NO hesitation kicking him out of that school at all. Yet it makes no sense, that being from not only out of district, he is not legally here, he should get special exemption from the laws on immigration. All the SCOTUS ruling did in saying that even illegal kids are entitled to education is that they can be educated here, NOT that they are entitled to freedom from deportation or other of our laws. In fact, most of the illegals have committed other felonies such as not registering for the draft, stealing IDs or SS numbers, etc.. I see no reason why the kids should benefit from something that the parents have stolen and which they and thier kids have NO legal or moral right to have, the right to live and work in the US. They have shown no regards or concern for the rights of US citizens, and think that THEIR desires trump our laws and democratic rights. If an illegal stole a car and gave it to their kids, we would not leave the car with the kids because they are such good students and that taking it would make it very hard for them to go to school. The fact is that these people HAVE stolen the right to live and work here. They should not be allowed to keep the proceeds of their crime.
BTW, Nick.
Remember “hallow” and “hollow”?
How about “hear” and “here”.
Sorry. The Evil pdm won out on that one.
Fair enough, Nick. This position (officer of the court) is worth discussing and I would like to learn more about that (as I implied in my note at 10:16). However, your FIRST and pretty much only clearly stated objection was based on the glut of attorneys and the undesirable effect of depriving an American of a job. I think that is a lousy selfish reason and also wonder how that fits with a “up by their bootstraps” libertarian philosophy.
Foolishly, I’ll bite on the subject of your son who really has no role to play on the subject of undocumented aliens being admitted to the bar…
I’m picturing a kid who was brought to this country as a young child by parents who were pursuing a better way of life and came illegally. People like the ones you like to help. Now you also brought a young child into the country. Please compare and contrast how you were able to get your son naturalized with Mr. and Mrs. Undocumented Alien who did not. Gee, unlike you, they really were some lousy parents that they didn’t show up at the immigration office to get some papers for their son.
You want the Dream Act? Me, too! “My” kid is a Dreamer! And I’m all for such kids to grow up and practice law, or medicine, or teach, or build skyscrapers and bridges. I don’t consign them to low skilled jobs.
pdm, So, it is your position that an illegal alien should be an officer of the court. I strongly disagree, and I surmise most of the barrister here do also. And, you are simply wrong on the facts about me, a little research BEYOND THIS THREAD would show that. Folks who don’t like me know my stance on cannabis, war on drugs, and illegal aliens. They’re hear regularly, and contribute positively and substantively That’s why you’re flyin’ solo on this one. You seem very comfortable in your box, which is your right. I simply refuse to allow you, or anyone, to put me in one. We adopted a son from Colombia and took the long, expensive and difficult steps to make sure HE WAS LEGAL. This is a nation of laws, not men.
“Little boxes on a hilltop, little boxes made of ticky tack. little boxes on a hilltop, and they all look the same.”
Oh, and the “pot shots”, Nick?
Jeebus. Your very first note here includes a pot shot. You, sir, are the king of pot shots. “Notes”. “Homework”. “Critcal thinking”. “Up your game”. “Valerie Jarret”. Valerie Jarret? WTF? Next you’ll be raving about Al Capone.
150,000 tuition 90,000+ living expenses.
Uhh it costs 250,000 dollars to go to GW too unless you get a scholarship.