I find myself not only in agreement with Sarah Palin but angry at her treatment by a MSNBC host. Palin recently canceled a NBC interview with Matt Lauer over the failure of MSNBC to discipline host Martin Bashir for saying that someone should defecate in Palin’s mouth after she compared federal debt to slavery. While I once worked for MSNBC, I have been shocked by the effort of the network to be the Fox News of the left — with hosts often blindly supporting the President, seriously comparing Holder to Moses, and even defending the surveillance of journalists (which Bashir did) in defense of the Administration. For civil libertarians, it has been a blow to see MSNBC yield to a type of cult of personality around Obama while basic civil liberties are being denied by this Administration. However, Bashir was able to hit truly a new low and the lack of a serious response beyond an on-air apology sends the message that anything goes when the target is a conservative and critic of the President.
First let’s start off with Palin’s remark:
“Our free stuff today is being paid for by taking money from our children and borrowing from China. When that money comes due… it’ll be like slavery when that note is due. We are going to beholden to the foreign master.”
A bit over-the-top, yes. Unprecedented, no. Many people warn of the dependency on China as the holder of our debt. Moreover, the use of the noun slavery to refer to such dependency is hardly shocking. Standard dictionaries include the following definitions of slavery beyond actual human bondage: “The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence. 4. A condition of hard work and subjection.” In other words, Palin was using the term in a recognized and hardly unprecedented fashion. Moreover, the Chinese debt is a serious problem that has been discussed by both liberals and conservatives.
Bashir however seemed eager to attack Palin on the use of the word slavery as opposed to her obvious point. Indeed, it was Bashir who seemed to go off the deep end with a lecture on horror of slavery which no one (including Palin) had questioned.
He quotes Palin and then says:
“So here’s an example. One of the most comprehensive first-person accounts of slavery comes from the personal diary of a man called Thomas Thistlewood, who kept copious notes for 39 years. Thistlewood was the son of a tenant farmer, who arrived on the island of Jamaica in April 1750, and assumed the position of overseer at a major plantation.
What is most shocking about Thistlewood’s diary is not simply the fact that he assumes the right to own and possess other human beings, but is the sheer cruelty and brutality of his regime,” Bashir added. “In 1756, he records that a slave named Darby ‘catched eating kanes had him well flogged and pickled, then made Hector, another slave, s-h-i-t in his mouth.’
This became known as ‘Darby’s Dose,’ a punishment invented by Thistlewood that spoke only of inhumanity. And he mentions a similar incident in 1756, his time in relation to a man he refers to as Punch. ‘Flogged punch well, and then washed and rubbed salt pickle, lime juice and bird pepper, made Negro Joe piss in his eyes and mouth’ . . . She confirms if anyone truly qualified for a dose of discipline from Thomas Thistlewood, she would be the outstanding candidate.”
It was unhinged and unfair and disgraceful. However, some Palin critics immediately attacked Palin as insulting African-Americans by even using the word slavery. This was raised by Jake Tapper in a later interview:
TAPPER: You can understand why African Americans or others might be offended by it, though?
PALIN: I — I can if they choose to misinterpret what it is that I’m saying. And, again, you know, I’m sure if we open up the dictionary, we could prove that with semantics that are various, we can prove that there is a definition of slavery that absolutely fits the bill there, when I’m talking about a bankrupt country that will owe somebody something down the line if we don’t change things that is, we will be shackled. We will be enslaved to those who we owe.
Once again, I do not share the condemnation of Palin as somehow dismissing or lessening the crime of slavery in this country. Nor do I think she was lecturing African-Americans. I do not see how any reasonable reading of her comments can produce such interpretation. However, in today’s environment, everyone seems on a hair-trigger to condemn and unleash the type of disgusting retort of Bashir. There seems to be a view that opposing figures like Palin deserve no consideration or decency in the treatment of her comments.
Bashir later apologized:
“I wanted to take this opportunity to say sorry to Mrs. Palin, and to also offer an unreserved apology to her friends and family, her supporters, our viewers, and anyone who may have heard what I said. I deeply regret what I said and that I have learned a sober lesson in these last few days that the politics of vitriol and destruction is a miserable place to be and a miserable person to become.”
What was missing was any discipline from MSNBC.
Perhaps this outrageous comment might produce some needed soul-searching at MSNBC over its decision to become an echo-chamber for the White House. However, there is no evidence of it in the silence from MSNBC.
Various people came forward to defend Bashir and question whether even an apology was needed:
Basically, as Jason Easley pointed out at the time, Palin was essentially telling African-Americans that they don’t really know what slavery is, and it takes someone like Palin to explain it to them. If you think that’s offensive, well congratulations, you are a normal functioning human being. It is with that backdrop that Bashir made the following comments on his show on Friday
I do not see it that way and I am no fan of Palin. I fail to see how her original or later comments sought to tell “African-Americans that they don’t really know what slavery is.” That is equally unfair to Palin. I fail to see why our current political divisions justify taking every comment of an opposing figure to the worst possible meaning, particularly when the meaning seem quite evident.
Do you think an apology is enough in this circumstance when a host says that someone should defecate in the mouth of a conservative leader?
It’s late, typo:
….the rest of the American Hating Trash….
There is OBVIOUSLY not insult to African Americans by using the word slavery in a sense endorsed by the dictionary. By the way, in the Ancient World people were often put into LITERAL chattel slavery for excessive debt.
pdm,
In 12 hours it’ll mark 50 years since those bloody bassards, the Bush Family, LBJ, Nixon, Hoover, & the least of the American Hating Trash got their hands bloody killing JFK.
Maybe you buy what the rest of us know as the official bull Sheeet story.
Infowars is up & on this issue, maybe turn in tomorrow & hear another narrative.
The JBS was a tiny group with tiny financial resources. Support from the JBS was tepid because they saw him as a moderate who refused to push the “conspiracy theory.” They were not the major financial backer of Reagan. Look toward the Catholic Church’s Knights of Malta if you want to know from whence Reagan’s support came.
“The JBS was a tiny group with tiny financial resources. Support from the JBS was tepid because they saw him as a moderate who refused to push the “conspiracy theory.””
Lloyd,
Nancy Reagan’s father, Loyal Davis was a highly conservative neurosurgeon with ties to the John Birch Society and it was through him that Ronnie got started in California politics.
Besides the Bircher’s founder Robert Welch, a very wealthy man, there were
“Fred Koch, founder of Koch Industries, was one of the founding members. Robert Waring Stoddard, President of Wyman-Gordon, a major industrial enterprise, was also among the founders.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society
They were a very well-financed group and are again influential today. Reagan’s major backer though was GE, who revived his career getting him the job as host of “Death Valley Days”. The company, perhaps America’s largest defense contractor, sent Reagan around on tours of the U.S. to increase his celebrity. They helped him develop what became known as “his speech”, which he used on all his political campaigns.
pdm,
I like some of the stuff Eisenhower took care of.
But like we all do there are issues with Eisenhower.
IE: He didn’t kill the Federal Reserver or the Direct Income Tax did he!
And of course he let the Nazi piece of trash Prescott Bush walk from the publics Hangman’s Noose!
pdm, either Hang Commie/Nazis or Brand their Foreheads, but you don’t like then walk free among the Gen Pop!
Oky, for starters…..John Birch society said Eisenhower was a communist.
** Mike Spindell 1, November 21, 2013 at 11:44 am
“This became known as ‘Darby’s Dose,’ a punishment invented by Thistlewood that spoke only of inhumanity. And he mentions a similar incident in 1756, his time in relation to a man he refers to as Punch. ‘Flogged punch well, and then washed and rubbed salt pickle, lime juice and bird pepper, made Negro Joe piss in his eyes and mouth’ . . . She confirms if anyone truly qualified for a dose of discipline from Thomas Thistlewood, she would be the outstanding candidate.”
This was Bashir’s analogy quoted from above. Over the top…..perhaps. Requiring discipline…..I don’t think so. He apologized and that should be the end of it. We have had commenters on this very blog write things that would make Bashir blush. We have had racists, homophobes, Jew haters and women haters write things that were scatologically bigoted. Our policy here is not to censor those comments, no matter how reprehensible they may be. How then do we call for Bashir’s firing, or even greater punishment?
Now to be clear I don’t like, nor have I ever liked Bashir. He is typical of the pundit class in this country. As for MSNBC let us be real. There is no real political commitment of that network. While some of its on air personalities are no doubt courageous idealists, the network is merely catering to a marketing niche created by FOXNews and it lame copycat CNN. NBC, the parent company is neither a left wing nor progressive company. The fact that Chuck Todd and David Gregory represent the stars of the NBC political firmament bears that out. NBC is now wholly owned by Comcast which has never been seen as either liberal, progressive or left wing. However, the audience, marketing niche, was there and MSNBC filled the vacuum. The corporate news media in this country is just that and to expect them to actually fairly report the news is a pipe dream.
As for Sarah Palin, she represents a breed of individual in this country that uses politics to create and sustain celebrity. Her choice as a Vice Presidential candidate was not only a huge mistake on the part of John McCain, but provided her a gravitas in the minds of the media that she ill deserves. She has proven herself to be blissfully ignorant, yet smart enough to enrich herself as she tugs the heartstrings of her worshipful Right Wing followers. This is not a new phenomena in this country where a sucker is born every minute. For a brief time in my lifetime a drunken Senator, who privately didn’t take himself seriously, was the most powerful opinion maker in this country. Then too, an over-the-hill actor with early onset Alzheimer’s, backed by John Birch society money became a President, who many today consider the greatest President in our history. Ms. Palin is basically a dancing clown for a segment of our populace who love to see her perform. Her performance is in itself insulting to her person, but then it has made her rich and famous, so she doesn’t really care.
**
Mike S,
I believe you’re better then this. I know I’m tired & I assume you must be also.
I’m sure if you were speaking around my mom or I your’s we’d both be double sure to check any locker room garbage talk. And save it for the back lot if we must.
Worst in this case is the guy is advocating “Torture” & “Assault & Battery”!!!
Just because my enemy is evil & a lunatic just not mean I & my friends should stoop to the rotten ahole’s level.
A main complaint of mine & many others is that Clinton, GW Bush & Obama have all committed War Crimes & Crimes against Humanity.
I’m positive if you check the Geneva Convention & the Nuremberg Trials you will see that Mr Martin Bashir advocating Torture is a Crime Against Humanity.
And as I consider your comments you appear to be condoning Mr. Bashiir’s recommendations.
I’m sure from getting to know you a bit you’d be the 1st to recommend we attempt to keep a civil tongue.
That we should refrain from inflammatory speech, avoid racist remarks & say we should not say hang so n so or drag then behind a pickup unless people like you and I are a absolutely clear that person had the fairest of fair trials & there remained “No Doubt” that person needed punished by the state.
“And Not Vengeance from you or I.”
Ok, maybe some sporting fun… lol
Well, since I started with zero energy or words I at least like the tone I wrote this in.
Come on Mike, let other run for the gutters, let you & I claim the high ground always.
One other thing,
“John Birch society ”
If there’s some issue with the JBS tell us what the issues are. That just like saying Infowars, Oh Be Scared it’s Alex Jones/Infowars, be scared stay away don’t listen without every arguing an facts, just table pounding.
Even the drunkest/coked up Democrat/Republican’s daughter gets a couple of answers correct. He’ll look at GW’s/Dick Chaney’s kids. 🙂
“Now to be clear I don’t like, nor have I ever liked Bashir. He is typical of the pundit class in this country. ”
Oky1,
What about this shows I approve of Bashir?
“For a brief time in my lifetime a drunken Senator, who privately didn’t take himself seriously, was the most powerful opinion maker in this country. Then too, an over-the-hill actor with early onset Alzheimer’s, backed by John Birch society money became a President, who many today consider the greatest President in our history. Ms. Palin is basically a dancing clown for a segment of our populace who love to see her perform. Her performance is in itself insulting to her person, but then it has made her rich and famous, so she doesn’t really care.”
As for this I wasn’t tired when I wrote it and I believe what I wrote. Perhaps you could explain further what you found offensive in what I wrote?
Juliet N: “An occasional low blow from MSNBC does not equal the constant stream of vitriol and hyperbole on FOX. False equivalency.”
***
Right.
I file this under ‘who gives a damn?’ After the last 6 years of relentless, vicious, racist vitriol and craziness from the right my moral purity and outrage is just plumb tuckered out. It doesn’t have the energy or interest to get exercised over this.
Smiling Atheist, stay classy
personally, I’d like to take a dump and Sarah Palin’s mouth myself
I think it’s the Stolichnayanists we need beware of–but they are usually found under the table…not the bed.
Dead people, Bron. Dead people.
pdm:
there are, I see them everywhere.
Elaine, thanks for the refresher.
And the Donors Trust to which you referred above gets lotsa money from the Kochs.
And Bron whines about Soros. Give me a break. I like him better when he worries about the Stalinists under his bed.
Gene H:
To be honest, I have read The Nation and New Republic, the stuff you and the other guest bloggers produce is as good or better. I may not agree with you but you guys certainly put your 2 cents in pretty well.
I’d say you are right on what you see going on. But I blame it on bad regulations and the FED, to a lesser extent on immoral behaviour in the market. Say what you want but most people I know were shocked by Bernie Madoff, that indicates to me most people in business are moral actors or people would have yawned and said ho hum.
Most business owners work to the rules, they will take it as far as they can; and invent things to get around the rules. No regulator, no matter how good he is, is going to be able to anticipate all the bric brac business is going to come up with to get around the regulations.
pdm,
Regarding the Franklin Center: I wrote about it in my post last Sunday:
State Policy Network—The “PR Firm” for ALEC and a Right-Wing Agenda
http://jonathanturley.org/2013/11/17/state-policy-network-the-pr-firm-for-alec-and-a-right-wing-agenda/
Excerpt:
Media Mouthpiece for the Right-Wing Agenda
In February the Center for Public Integrity published an article by Paul Abowd titled Donors use charity to push free-market policies in states: Nonprofit group lets donors fly ‘totally under the radar’. Abowd reported that, in 2009, “a network of online media outlets began popping up in state capitals across the nation, each covering the news from a clearly conservative point of view. What wasn’t so clear was how they were funded.”
Michael Moroney, a spokesman for the Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity—the think tank that created the outlets, said, “The source is 100 percent anonymous.” According to IRS records, 95% of the Franklin Center’s 2011 revenue came from Donors Trust.
In 2011, Sara Jerving (PR Watch) wrote about the Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity’s “rushing to fill the gap” in 2009 as newsrooms across the country were cutting staff “due in part to slipping ad revenue and corporate media conglomeration.” At the time her article was published, the aforementioned network had “43 state news websites, with writers in over 40 states.” Jerving said the network’s reporters had “been given state house press credentials” and that its news articles were “starting to appear in mainstream print newspapers in each state.” Jerving added, “The websites all offer their content free to local press — many of the news bureaus send out their articles to state editors every day. The sites also offer free national stories that media can receive daily by subscribing.”
According to Jerving, the screening process for writers of these media outlets is not like that of other “journalistic outlets.” For example, she said the Wisconsin Reporter asked applicants “ideological questions.” She added that the Poynter Institute, a Florida-based school and resource for journalists, had reported that Wisconsin Reporter applicants were asked to answer questions such as the following: “How do free markets help the poor?” and “Do higher taxes lead to balanced budgets?”
Jerving wrote that the journalistic integrity of Franklin Center’s media sites had been called into question by media watchdog groups. She reported that “Laura McGann, assistant editor at the Nieman Journalism Lab at Harvard University, wrote in a 2010 piece in the Washington Monthly, that the Franklin Center sites are engaging in distorted reporting across the country. As often as not, their reporting is thin and missing important context, which occasionally leads to gross distortions.” Jerving said that McGann pointed out several instances where the center’s “Watchdog websites wrote stories that turned out to be misleading or untrue.” McGann also said, “This sort of misleading reporting crops up on Watchdog sites often enough to suggest that, rather than isolated instances of sloppiness, it is part of a broad editorial strategy.”
Despite the kinds of misleading stories published by the Wisconsin Reporter, it has “gained traction in the state.” Jerving said that its stories “have been picked up by a host of local media outlets in the state, such as La Crosse Tribune, Eau Claire’s Leader Telegram, Wausau Daily Herald, Steven’s Point Journal, Chippewa Herald, and Beloit Daily News.”
Oh, and if I’m even somewhat offsetting the damage you do to yourself by reading Cato and Heritage, then I consider that a very high complement indeed.
Now if we could just do something about Ayn . . .
Bron,
You seem to think I don’t want a strong economy. Which would be wrong. More importantly, I want a stable economy that isn’t based in war for profit or arbitrage transactions (which are made up wealth/casino money compared to a strong manufacturing base). Which we don’t have thanks to the corporatist/fascists. Manufacturing is the only true measure of an economy’s strength. We didn’t win WWII and the peace afterwards for 25 year because we had “better bankers, insurance companies and financial products”. We won because we made more of the best stuff being made anywhere. Deregulation, mal-regulation and mis-regulation driven by the lobby/graft system brought us to the phantom economy of boom/bust cycles we have today. Disaster capitalists an vulture capitalists made sure of that.
I find it interesting the slavery comments on this post from supposedly intelligent people. Quite a few of you seem to think that there has never been any other slavery in the history of the world other than blacks in the US.