A secret recording has surfaced of Vice President Dick Cheney speaking to the Republican Jewish Coalition where he held forth on various subjects — assuming that the session was closed to the public and press. Cheney appears to be intent on, again, revising history to get people to embrace a security state. You may recall how Cheney (who is often cited as a potential defendant in a torture prosecution) publicly assuring the nation that the Bush torture program produced valuable intelligence. That assertion has been previously dismissed by experts and insiders. However, as we discussed recently, the forthcoming Senate Report goes into great deal to show that not only is that assertion untrue but that the CIA actively sought to hide the fact that the torture program produced insignificant intelligence (and that detainees were tortured despite their cooperation in conventional interrogations). Cheney is now fighting to defend the massive surveillance of citizens — again dismissing even the concessions of intelligence officials about abuses and violations under the program. Cheney told a rapturous crowd that all such accounts were “hogwash.” He further pumped the crowd with support for an attack on Iran to add yet another war to our current international conflicts.
In his March 29th remarks, Cheney insisted that suggestions “That we have created in the National Security Agency this monster bureaucracy that’s reading everybody’s mail, listening to everybody’s phone calls, infringing upon our civil liberties and civil rights — hogwash.” He then adds the assertion that, if we had only embraced massive surveillance previously, “It probably would’ve allowed us to stop 9/11.”
It is a signature moment for Cheney. Once again, when confronted with the creation of a security state and mass surveillance, he plays the 9-11 card. There has never been any suggestion that the program would have prevented 9-11. More importantly, Cheney seems to be forgetting the findings of virtually every investigation of 9-11 that the CIA and FBI could have prevented the attacks with existing powers. Intelligence officials failed to share information and use existing powers to prevent the attack despite various indications that the attack was coming. Of course those findings do not play as well for expanding the powers and budgets of those very same agencies. Instead, citizens are asked to embrace torture, kill lists, and massive surveillance if they want to avoid an attack.
For many outside of this country, the very fact that Cheney has not been prosecuted for his role in the torture program is a consistent reminder of the failure of the country to fulfilled its obligations under existing treaties, as reflected by the recent U.N. report (only the latest such UN criticism). Cheney is a fascinating study of how some citizens and leaders seem to have an overwhelming inclination toward authoritarian power (not just to wield it but to be subject to it). It could not be more disconnected with the views and values of the Framers who deeply distrusted government powers and foreign entanglements. Even in the face of reports and statements from intelligence officials to the contrary, Cheney continues to deny reality in support of near absolute powers in the president. It is hard to tell if he truly believes these accounts or simply seeks to sustain a rivaling narrative. Either way, it increasingly appears so disconnected from reality as to be doublespeak, or even delusional, for Cheney.
Source: Yahoo
9/11 happened because airline companies refused to put in place the simple security measures that would have prevented the attack. Because it would have cost money. (The solution, proposed during the skyjacking era, was to prevent any access to the cockpit from the passenger compartment in flight. A skyjacker, or terrorist, could kill passengers or even crash the plane; but they couldn’t seize control of it.)
And no, with a few very limited exceptions, torture does not work to gain information. And no amount of sigint or even humint works, if someone in charge isn’t willing to look at what the information says, rather than what they want it to say. And given politicians’ penchant for releasing classified information (e.g Valerie Plame) for short-term political gain, it’s unlikely intelligence agencies will provide such information to their alledged booses, anyway.
Bruce Coulson,As an airline captain who was flying before and after 9/11, the anti-hijacking procedure was to give the hijackers ANYTHING they wanted and to get the plane on the ground ASAP. The terrorists did NOT have to break into the cockpit, they were invited in! Bush was derelict in his duty when he and all the other political members of his administration dismissed the PBR warning of an Al Qeada attack. There was NO expense involved in changing the anti-hijacking procedure since all that was required was to change the instructions by a notice to pilots. That is all it would have taken to stop 9/11. Bush should have asked all his relevant agencies to review anti-hijack procedures and other threats posed by Al Qeada, THEN he would have done his job. Instead he just dismissed the PBR with saying, you have covered your asses now, Thanks. He then did nothing.
Wayne,
Did you serve? I did.
Sgt (E5) US Army 1965-1968
Jail the bastid.
William Hefner:
Seems were living the last days of the Roman empire. so get ready for the barbarians from the middle east. and yes you can’t believe anything this administration says, Obummer is nothing but a LIAR
Randy-
The idea that we did not know that Bin Laden was a terrorist before the embassy bombings is simply not true. And again, I’m not defending Bush & Cheney. I’m simply making the point that everyone loves to blame presidents for their decisions (and conveniently, only the ones of a rival political party), but they make extremely difficult decisions every day and sometimes they get them wrong. It’s very easy to claim to be the superior being when you’ve had 12+ years to study the decisions.
p.s., You lost me at “I can understand why there are so many people who think Bush orchestrated 9/11.” I don’t understand people like that. You know why? Because they are crazy. Just as crazy as the idiots who claim Obama allowed Benghazi to happen.
Guest I suggest you name some terrorist actions Bin Laden did before Clinton became President.
I was totally appalled as the Cheney gang attacked Iraq on pretext of WMD ( I yelled at the TV “what are they doing !!” as we watched the invasion) and as far as I am concerned, Cheney and Bush SHOULD be prosecuted for WAR CRIMES and I find it totally unacceptable that they (who avoided any call-up themselves throughout their lives) should walk free for this mass-murder exploit they put the US thru.
I do not know how they can live with what they did – I am sure their souls must be rotting away as we speak !!!
Please arrest this war criminal. Enough is bloody enough.
William Hefner,
Here are a few of your stalwart brave Rs who fought and served so bravely for our country:
2012 US Presidential Candidates:
Rick Perry: Captain, Pilot, USAF
Mitt Romney: Did not serve; Mormon missionary in France. Plus his 5 sons who have never served.
Ron Paul: Captain, USAF
Newt Gingrich: Did not serve
Michelle Bachmann: Did not serve
Herman Caine: Did not serve
Rick Santorum: Did not serve, past Member of US Senate Armed Services Committee
John Huntsman: Did not serve
Buddy Roemer: Did not serve
And here are a few more notables for you to chew over AKA “Chicken Hawks”:
Ronald Reagan: Army Reserves, served in WWII making movies
As mentioned above: John Wayne, another coward who stayed home during
WWII making movies.
Spencer Abraham: Did not serve
Eliot Abrams: Did not serve
John Ashcroft: Did not serve
Roy Blunt: Did not serve
Michael Bloomberg: Did not serve
George W. Bush: Texas Air Nat. Guard; AWOL
Jeb Bush: Did not serve
Saxby Chambliss: Did not serve. (Attacked Triple Amputee Max Cleland’s patriotism during 2006 Senate Campaign)
Dick Cheney: Did not serve – 5 Student Deferments
Christopher Cox: Did not serve
Tom DeLay: Did not serve
Bob Dornan: Enlisted after fighting was over in Korea
John Engler: Did not serve
Douglas Feith: Did not serve
Bill Frist: Did not serve
Rudy Giuliani: Did not serve
Lindsey Graham: National Guard attorney
Phil Gramm: Did not serve
Dennis Hastert: Did not serve
Jack Kemp: Did not serve. (“Knee problem,” Played NFL football for 8 years)
Jon Kyl: Did not serve
Trent Lott: Did not serve
Mitch McConnell: Did not serve
George Pataki: Did not serve
Richard Perle: Did not serve
Dan Quayle: Indiana National Guard Journalism unit
Tom Ridge: Army Staff Sgt. in Vietnam, Bronze star
Dana Rohrabacher: Did not serve
Karl Rove: Did not serve
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base
Richard Shelby: Did not serve
Peter Roskam: Did not serve
JC Watts: Did not serve
Vin Weber: Did not serve
Paul Wolfowitz: Did not serve
Rush Limbaugh: Medical Deferment (Anal Cyst – a Real Pain in the A$$)
Eric Cantor – Did not Serve
Paul Ryan – Did not Serve
Scott Walker – Did not Serve
Joe Walsh – Did not Serve
Sarah Palin–kept watch on the Alaska/Russian border in case Putin reared his
head. This proved so stressful that she was forced to resign
her Governorship.
Bill Kristol – Did not Serve
Jean Hannity – Did not Serve
Jeb Bush – Did not Serve
Donald Trump – issued FIVE deferments during Viet Nam War.
Marco Rubio – Did not Serve
Larry (Wide-Stance) Craig – Did not Serve
John Cornyn – Did not Serve
Joe Scarborough – Did not Serve
Mr. FBI John Edgar Hoover – Did not Serve
This is hard work listing all the Republican Chickenhawks..maybe someone can add to this list?
Wayne, Guv Arnold is a REAL draft dodger since he was required to register for the draft and did NOT do so. He committed a FELONY for not doing that. So much for his respect for the law.
Bush & Cheney deserve plenty of blame, but let’s not forget Bill Clinton had MULTIPLE chances to kill Bin Laden but refused to authorize the strikes. It’s very easy to sit back and blame Presidents after you have the benefit of all the facts.
Guest only one problem. The FACTS say otherwise since Bin Laden at the time Clinton took office had done NOTHING at all to even get on a wanted list, much less be targeted for assassination. Then when Bin Laden finally DID do something, the embassy bombings, Clinton DID act, and was roundly criticized by the GOP for doing so. Remember Wag the Dog story and how the GOP trumpeted that? Not a whole lot of support there on the GOPs part. In fact, given the GOPs love for Bin Laden in protesting Clinton’s bombing, I can understand why there are so many people who think Bush orchestrated 9/11. Plus the FACT that Salim Bin Laden invested in W Bush’s oil company and got it going.
Perfectly written.
Is our society in jeopardy? If so, “What is psychosis?”
Cheney & Shrub were warned and they did nothing – did not warn anyone. -or say anything to anyone – the deaths of over 1, 000, 000 People and America are on them and those who said nothing
“And to believe that actionable intelligence is not gained from torture is beyond common sense.”
Well, maybe. But apparently not beyond the data. The claim is that little or no additional actionable intelligence was gained by torture. It seems to me that instead of going with our ‘common sense’ we ought to look at what actually happened.
The people who have actually read the report of CIA activities state that other methods produced actionable intelligence and that claims that torture was effective are self serving and exaggerated.
Maybe we ought to consider facts for a change.
Facts are wonderful things. They can provide useful guidance in times of ignorance or confusion.
If you say it enough…. It still doesn’t mean its true….
One other fact; if we had Bush and Cheney in the White House today you can take to the bank that the Middle East would not be IN the mess it is today and Putin wouldn’t be rebuilding the USSR. Are all liberals cowards or do they just sound that way?
NO Actually most liberals were NOT chickenhawks like Bush and Cheney who RAN from active duty military service in wartime. They followed the lead of the biggest chickenhawk of all time, John Wayne who only fought with his draft board during WWII when the US was fighting for its LIFE.
Then we cannot forget Reagan who RAN from Beirut when over 200+ US Marines were killed. That action convinced Bin Laden that the US was cowardly.
Surely one is not that naive as to believe anything that is coming out of the current administration. Their entire agenda has been to weaken the United States and cast long shadows on President Bush and the Republician Party. And to believe that actionable intelligence is not gained from torture is beyond common sense.
I was not Cheney or Ws fault for letting 9/11 happen. Even though the CIA sent him a PBR on the fact that Al Qeada was planning such an attack. He was hamstrung by the policies, not that Bush was and is incompetent. THAT is why he will continue to say this. Just wait another year, and Cheney will be saying that they found HUGE stockpiles of WMDs in Iraq, and it was only through Cheney more attacks were stopped.
Between Cheney and Rumsfeld, I’m not sure who is more contemptible. Bush admin had 9/11 warnings and they ignored them. Having more information and not acting on it produces the same results.
Now lets not dismiss his claim of hogwash too quickly.
After all if anyone has an insiders understanding of hogwash it has to be Cheney. As a matter of fact Cheney must be the nations per-eminent expert on hogwash – I mean aside from Don Rumsfeld.
Mercy me! And guess who was in charge of the NSA in summer 2001 … President Darkm Dick and his li’l sidekick Dubya!