Respectfully submitted by Lawrence E. Rafferty (rafflaw)- Weekend Contributor
It has happened again. A mass killing at the hands of a person armed with knives and three semi-automatic handguns and 400 rounds of ammunition. This time the alleged shooter stabbed three to death and then went on a shooting spree that ended with at least three more dead and a total of 8 injured/wounded people from gunshot wounds and 5 more injured by his knives or by being hit by his car.
The family of the alleged shooter requested a police intervention prior to the killings and the police did speak with the young man, but they did not have cause to search his apartment. The police had other interactions with Elliot Rodger, age 22 and he later expressed concern that they did not find his weapons.
“Deputies also encountered Rodger earlier this year when he accused a roommate of stealing three candles, and in another case in which he claimed to be beaten but deputies suspected he was the aggressor.
Rodger detailed his plans in an extensive 141-page manifesto released Saturday and said he narrowly missed being found out when the officers knocked on his door.
Rodger expressed relief that his apartment wasn’t searched because they would have found his weapons and his writings. When recounting his thinking about whether he should kill his father, Rodger expressed a sliver of acknowledgment that his plot, which included killing other family members, was wrong.
“I didn’t want it to come to this,” Rodger said. “I desperately wanted a way out.” He then immediately talks about his mother giving him a new car — a BMW coupe.” USA Today
This latest shooting spree is not the reason for this article. It is merely one more example of why common sense gun control measures that could save innocent lives are needed. When recent polls seem to indicate that a majority of Americans agree that common sense gun control regulations are needed, the NRA continually stands in the way of possibly life saving legislation. However, the NRA is not just working to prevent any gun control legislation from proceeding, it is also standing in the way of attempts to have the Center for Disease Control (CDC) do research on gun prevention measures.
“But this past week we’ve seen the other side of the coin. How the NRA works to suppress information that would lead to treating a public health catastrophe that claims over 30,000 lives per year and injures over 100,000 as that very thing, while fighting to ensure we have as little access to information as possible that might help save lives.
The simple fact is, much like with their friends on the right from the tobacco industry to the oil industry to the megachurch, science and information are the enemies of the NRA. They have proven they will do whatever it takes to make sure we have less of it, and more Santa Barbaras.
The clearest example, of course, is the NRA’s labeling a bill sponsored by Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) and Senator Ed Markey (D-MA) to allow the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to once again use its considerable expertise to research gun violence prevention, “unethical.” Yes, they actually said that.
Because anyone who does statistically significant research on a public health problem from the angle of helping people and not profiting from misery, and again and again finds obvious truths such as owning guns makes you more likely to get shot, is not someone the NRA and its allies will countenance without smearing. I debated one of these types from the Second Amendment Foundation on NPR recently regarding the CDC. It is amazing how tongue-tied they get when you present them with irrefutable information.” Reader Supported News
In what world is it “unethical” to research ways to prevent deaths? Would the NRA consider it unethical to study ways to prevent automotive deaths? Or deaths caused by contaminated food? In the NRA’s world, massacres like the ones that happened in Santa Barbara, Sandy Hook Elementary, Northern Illinois University, Virginia Tech, Columbine and countless others, can only be prevented by good guys carrying guns everywhere and anywhere.
When an organization like the NRA labels an attempt to investigate ways to reduce deaths as unethical, I have to wonder if this lobbyist organization has lost touch with reality. How can we as a country not look into ways that we could possibly prevent some of the 30,000 deaths and 100,000 injured from gun actions? How much longer can the United States of America go on allowing a company/lobbying organization to spend millions to block any and all reasonable actions that may save lives?
Shame on the NRA for blocking reasonable gun control legislation and for even trying to stop research into ways to reduce deaths from guns. Shame on us for allowing it to continue. How much longer will we, as a nation, stand by and watch innocents die? How much longer until we listen to our hearts and our heads and stand up and insist that something be done? Our lives and the lives of our children are at stake. Our moral standing as a nation is also at stake.
Richard Martinez, the father of one of the Santa Barbara victims may have said it best as he reacted to the death of his child. “Christopher Ross Michaels-Martinez, of Los Osos, California, was the last of six people killed by suspect Elliot Rodger before the gunman apparently shot and killed himself, authorities said.
Martinez choked back tears as he spoke, then grew angrier as he talked about gun laws and lobbyists.
“The talk about gun rights. What about Chris’ right to live?” Martinez said. “When will enough people say: ‘Stop this madness! We don’t have to live like this! Too many people have died!” MSN News
How much longer until we heed Mr. Martinez’ plea?
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Hubert Cumberdale: I thought the “enemy” was al qaeda, not your fellow Americans.
You have deftly illustrated precisely what is wrong with American politics. Score one for the Koch Bros.
Hubie: You are not missed
Schulte: Allie Z’s connections (synapses) are not as good as you think.
Al: You comments come across as one of the low information voters in this country; angry at what’s going on, but no idea of whom to blame. Your use of the term “Lib Tard” essentially betrays your politics. I understand that green tea has shown some efficacy against Alzheimer’s. Can a person still vote if they suffer from from dementia? Hubie, you might want to look into that.
RTC – I do not think dementia is a impediment to voting.
Here again, another example where the laws regarding firearms wouldn’t have made any difference. I visit this blog from time to time to “know thine enemy” and for laughs, but sometimes this liberal wing-nut bull is too much.
For American colonialists keeping and bearing arms was a daily matter of life or death as there were no supermarkets to shop or 911 emergency services to call. In colonial times you were on your own. It was common accepted knowledge, at the time of The Constitutional Convention, that colonialists did in fact keep and bear arms on an individual basis and thus the authors of the US Bill of Rights clearly did not intend to cede the right to bear arms to the newly christened government and it’s well regulated militia as the government was seen as a servant of the people to be limited by the newly ratified constitution, not an entity the people should be abdicating their hard fought rights to.
Elliot Roger was a depraved cretin and his actions can never be justified as the amount of pain and suffering he has wrought upon so many folks is unquantifiable. If he had only turned his weapons upon himself or smashed his BMW into a concrete wall before he harmed any others, if only.
RTC: I pointed out the example in 1865 set by Lincoln and Grant when they gave pardoned treasonous rebels their sidearms back after they had surrendered, to put some time zone into the life of this discussion. Many of you think that notions of gun rights and Second Amendment considerations were frozen at the Creation, when the Framers were of a certain mindset. I also will point out that post civil war, during the Grant Administration as President, we had what has been termed a Second Revolution. The 14th Amendment is a big deal. It makes the Constitutional provisions such as the Bill of Rights applicable to the States. These Radical Republicans in power in Congress could have amended the Second Amendment at that time. They did make it applicable to the states. For those of you who think that the Second Amendment is not necessary today because the Redcoats have long been defeated, think some more. If that is possible.
RTC: your statement that the NRA pushes some racist agenda might be somewhat accurate. Perhaps they have learned some tricks from Lee Atwater. But guns are necessary for protection from dangerous people. I for one am open minded on this point. There were some white Klan guys around in the Deep South when I was a young civil rights lawyer and I needed a gun for protection from them. One might say that a White bigot in a hood and a robe is a racial minority because most white people are not in his camp so to speak. If you are not aware of this, there was a program called the COINTEL program run by J. Edgar Hoover. He helped provide automatic weapons to southern right wing groups in the sixties. The governmment did not give any guns to the civil rights workers. Do a Google Search on: Cointel. While you are at it you should look up: McUltra. That is the program that the CIA funded to test LSD on mental patients in mental hospitals. I am not defending the NRA here. I am not righty nor a Lib Tard in the word speak seen on this blog so much. I am for the Second Amendment and that includes the right of citizens without serious felonies to have all sorts of weapons so that we can defend ourselves and assemble and defend our rights if the tyrants take over.
As an aside, if you are in favor of shipping our jobs to Red China, not Taiwan, then does that make you a Lefty? The Koch Brothers must be Lefties. Bush too. Not just Bush II but both Bushies.
Al – check Cointel and could not see where they were handing out automatic weapons. I am sure you have better connections, so would you give me a link to this?
Al Z: I seriously doubt that Grant and Lee had the 2d Am in mind when the reached the agreement to let the defeated Confederates keep their firearms. More practical concerns were probably the cause like hunting for food and protection from angry ex-slaves. Or do you think the Bush administration was thinking of the 2d Am when they let Saddam’s troops keep their weapons after we had taken over Iraq?
The NRA continues to push the idea that guns are necessary for protection from dangerous minorities.
And you cannot blame the NRA because there are no cathouses in California.
And another thing. The dead guy perp shooter was shown on tv tonight on his selfi video where he was whining that women did not find him attractive. This is a good reason to have cathouses be made legal and widespread in California. The punk would have been able to get laid in the shade and not be out there shooting people because he was rejected by the local females.
Would I be considered to be a Right Wing person or a Left Wing Lib Tard, if I stated my position as being in favor of the right to arm bears? Or dyslectic? Which maybe the Framers were.
When Lee surrendered at Appomattox, the Officers were pardoned and released with their horse and side arms. The Union kept their rifles, canons, whether to the right or left of me, and other arms. But the fact that Lincoln and Grant each realized that these men had the right to bear arms on their road trips back to their homes, despite the fact that they had just been pardoned for the greatest felony of all, Treason, is solid proof that in 1865 there was a recognition of the right to bear arms. Since then it has been a down hill, slippery slope of gun haters who will eventually give the next tyrants the ability to take away our liberties. Yeah, there are psychos out there who kill people at Sandy Hook and other venues. Without guns they would make bombs or gas cocktails.
Thanks, Darren. . I was just trying to remember what I had said. That’s above and beyond.
I also want to say that you make an excellent point about the differing attitudes among the states. This is not a simple issue to sort out.
Let me restate that I favor repealing the 2d Am. I favor letting individual states determine their own gun regulations…to a point.
Hunting rifles are much different from military assault weapons. I favor an assault weapons ban. I oppose plastic guns and guns made of other undetectable materials. I oppose cop-killer bullets. I oppose high capacity magazines that allow shooters to fire hundreds of rounds without reloading. I oppose conceal-carry laws in urban and metropolitan settings.
Repealing the 2d Am is unrealistically difficult. Therefore, I think changes in certain other laws are necessary, like eliminating the “castle laws” and stand-your-ground. If you end up shooting someone, the law should take a very hard look at the circumstances and there had better be some imminent danger involved in order to avoid jail time.
Schulte: “You are blaming the only innocent (the NRA) in the whole bunch.”
You’re hilarious. Keep ’em coming.
“The group Open Carry Texas has removed several videos from its YouTube account after members were forced to leave two San Antonio restaurants for carrying assault-style rifles.
In one video obtained by Mother Jones, several gun activists are perplexed when an employee at Sonic tells them that they will not be served.
One rifle-carrying activist with a toddler child explains that he’s leaving because it’s “not safe to be here” with his daughter if guns are not allowed.” (Raw Story)
Restaurants in Texas refuse to serve “Texas Retards” who are “dumbasses” and who are forced to leave:
Here are the facts:
A troubled young man posted YouTube videos threatening violence, took them down because he had a cold, and then reposted them. Commenters remarked that he sounded like a serial killer. His family beam alarmed and notified authorities to get help. They interviewed the man, who convinced them he was no threat. Inexplicably, they did not view the videos that triggered the call until AFTER the shooting. Rogers later wrote that he was so glad that they did not search his residence, or they would have found his cache of weapons.
He emailed his manifesto to his therapist, who notified his mom 13 minutes before the attack, who notified his father, who drove to SB to try to stop him, calling the cops on the way. They were too late.
It sounds like the parents tried their best to get help, and the system failed them – mental health and police. It was chillingly similar to the story of failed efforts to help the Isla Vista murderer in 2001.
Help! Lost a comment. Can someone please fish it out of the Vortex of Doom?
mespo:
I haven’t followed the NRA. It is possible they have become more extreme than their roots in supporting hunters. I do not know.
It makes sense that gun manufacturers would contribute to the NRA, just as organic dairy farmers would contribute to organizations that help them overcome regulations against raw milk. It creates a bias but is not sinister.
There are not a lot of organizations fighting to protect the 2nd Amendment besides the NRA. And a majority of Americans want this right preserved. You can see the attraction.
I oppose armor-piercing bullets, in order to protect our cops. There may be some NRA positions I support, and some I oppose.
But often those who support private gun ownership are aligned with gun manufacturers. If you want to own a Colt, you don’t want Colt chased out of their state of manufacture.
Karen, I retrieved your comment.
Folks, Karen’s comment is above at 7:39
Paul S
You have made another error. Annie’s link does not include suicides or police shootings. Here are the figures.
Arizona
> Firearm homicide deaths per 100,000: 4.24 (13th highest)
> Firearm aggravated assaults per 100,000: 57.36 (16th highest)
> Violent crime rate per 100,000: 405.9 (19th highest)
> Need permit to purchase handgun: No
> Governor: Jan Brewer
_____________________________________
Suicide is not homicide.
Your inclusion of “police shootings” is just more made up Paul stuff. You are a very unreliable reporter. A police shooting that is ruled a homicide is a very, very rare occurrence.
If there were any in AZ, you should link it.
Annie had two links for those who were keeping up. One included deaths by suicide.
The ACLU has blood on its hands.