We have been discussing the trillions of dollars spent on Iraq and Afghanistan while we cut environmental, scientific, and educational programs on the state and federal levels. Now, we are only a couple of weeks into the newest war against Islamic State but we have already spent an estimated $1.1 billion. Of course, President Obama has stated that he does not require any congressional approval for the war, which has been described by his Administration as having an indefinite duration. In the meantime, our latest war has been a bonanza for weapons manufacturers, including a $251 million deal to buy more Tomahawks from Raytheon Co after we unloaded on the Islamic State.
While it has certainly helped domestically as a political matter, the air campaign does not appear to have made much a difference as a military matter. The Islamic State has continued to gain ground against opposing forces. In the meantime, we are using enormously expensive missiles like the Tomahawk which cost more than $1.5 million each. We unloaded almost 50 Tomahawks and other missiles at a cost of $62 million alone. The sight of such missiles taking out our own Humvees and relatively small targets leaves many scratching their heads about the logic of the campaign.
The cost currently is estimated at about $10 million a day. Of course, my children are going to classes with 35-40 kids in a class because Fairfax cannot hire more teachers and our bridges are increasingly being found to be dangerous for lack of repairs. However, like a MasterCard commercial, the political value of news images of buildings or Humvees exploding is priceless during an election year.
Source: Yahoo
Excuse the comment above because I have to change everything there is an EX in because it doesn’t work. I have to type a C and go back and use spellcheck l lol 🙂
Eric said…
Aridog,…Until we left in 2011, we were giving peace a chance with Iraq in the same way we’ve given – and continue to give – peace a chance in Europe and Asia since WW2. When we stopped our peace operations with Iraq, we stopped giving peace a chance.
Essentially I agree with you. It is in the details I go off track….
I love to argue, but you do make a valid point here with that statement. Having only left the military a few years ago now, I can only say that we no longer have the manpower or disposition strength to do what we did in Europe or Japan. I agree, if we’d been able to keep an occupation force in Iraq, similar to how we did in Germany circa 1950’s+, it might have turned out differently….however, given the rift between Shia, Sunni and Kurd in Iraq, which we did not face in either Germany or Japan, I wonder if we could have pulled it off with less than a half million troops…something we just do not have anymore. NO matter how much I wish we did.
This idea of drawing down our military strength is insanity, a RIF leaves you castrated and impotent. Who doesn’t know that?
I know enough Iraqi refugees here, where I live and see them every day, to know they wished we could have done what you and I suggest would work…some large number of troops to sustain the peace in Iraq as we did in Germany and Japan. Fact is, even in garrison we are v-e-r-y good at this peace building exercise, because the American GI is quite attuned to adapting to the local people in positive ways, not violent means. Find a child in need in a foreign enemy land and if available you will find a soldier or marine who will step up and cuddle that child and help him or her. Always. Been there, done that. The idea we are women and baby killers is a picture posed by the radical left, liars to the very last of any of them. They do NOT know because they’ve never been there, done that. SPIT!
As we speak we are cutting 80,000 + line type troops from our core strength…shortly we’d be hard pressed to repel an amphibious landing or airborne assault on Boston.
If there is anything I despise this administration for, and a bit of the previous under the Cheney/Rumsfled bullroar, it is in the RIF’s they promote…e.g, Reduction In Force. It always takes away the line troops and keeps the clerks…and outside of the USMC, clerks, however honorable otherwise, are not the same. They just are not trained the same. So don’t expect them to be able to fight the same. The USMC is different…everyone is a rifleman first, then whatever. I was US Army, not Marines, but I know the difference. The fight at Camp Bastion, Afghanistan, proves my point…Marines from an aviation repelled the attack when others couldn’t…and the Commander of the Marine detachment was first killed, fighting with only a pistol.
When we cut our forward leaning forces we are committing suicide.
And that is what we are doing today, as I say this.
When we cut our forward leaning forces we are committing suicide.
And that is what we are doing today, as I say this.
Wow, Aridog, you did not say this to me, but you said a mouthfull, and you said it well and concisely. Wow. When others say it they are so hateful. You are just heartbroken
“If “blowback” from our ever-expanding War on Terror takes the form of domestic terror attacks, that in itself will be taken as proof of the need for a more aggressive response abroad and new restrictions on liberties at home. “The global war on terror has acquired a life of its own,” says intelligence analyst Patrick Lang: “It’s a self-licking ice cream cone.””
http://thefederalist.com/2014/10/10/the-forever-war-president-obamas-transformational-war-powers-legacy/
Paul….I cited Joan Baez for her voice, not her politics…most of which I abhor. I mean, compared to TOP’s favorite screecher, Dylan, come on? 🙂
Another minstrel of the 60-70’s was Country Joe McDonald who was rather anti-war, with one notable facet the others didn’t have: he never disrespected the the soldiers, airman, sailors, or marines. Never…even his notorious “Fish Cheer” from Woodstock became an anthem among many soldiers, simply because (given there was still a draft in place) it said loudly, we can do it MF’rs, and all y’all can’t! We didn’t run away. Even as an enlistee in 1968 I loved that song, for similar reasons. I’ve subsequently met Joe McDonald face to face several times when he visited veterans events and always entertained with affection. Controversial to be sure, none the less, he was a high cut above all the rest…his ideals were political, many I disagree with, but he never made a mockery of us…he did the opposite. If I ever see him again I might ask about the Cindy Sheehan connection back there a while…just to hear his opinion, because I don’t think Ms Sheehan had it right in comparison to the 60’s. And I guarantee he would listen to what I’d say and we d agree, war is not a nice thing.
The fact he listened, to literally thousands of vets around the country (don’t believe me, check out most any VVA office nation wide) , face to face, like a “regular joe”…with no affectation of celebrity…it was the listening that made him a stand out. When not on stage, he was not back stage, he was always out in the audience or at the bar. Sometimes he’d forget to go on stage until quite late, due to his conversations with so many of us…then he’s just pull up a stool and sing, sometimes in the middle of us all.
See, I can accept difference of opinion, just not the sniping and personal attacks that so many protesters do. Country Joe was and is none of those things.Those were in fact “Strange Days” (The Doors-1967)…near the end of it all, circa 1971, I’d be ordered to take my squad to some camp follower village to assist the MP’s in suppressing not the ordinary enemy, but our own men who were frustrated, angry and rebellious. A horrible affair IMO…I don’t think I could have fired on US troops of any stripe unless one was obviously, going out of his way, trying hard to kill me, personally….honest statement. I followed orders, but there were some personal limits. I enlisted but not to shoot at Americans. Guess that was my closeted “hippie” after all, eh? Funny thing was that most of this “civil unrest” in the villages was caused by guys from garrison places like air force bases or depots. WTF?…I never understood that.
What goes on in the mind of someone, 18 to 21 or so, who is living, in garrison, in a place where American beer was 10 cents a can and cigarettes were 25 cents a pack, and you could get laid by a pretty girl for $10 or less? I mean, in the luck of the draw, in the draft, you won, you could just as easily been an 11B or 11C and in a line unit in Ashau Valley for cripes sake…truly I did not get it?
Aridog – My favorite group was The Limelighters. Saw them in concert. They started out telling intellectual dirty jokes and the later the night got, the dirtier the jokes. The bass player had a Ph. D. in music. 🙂 He was the one telling the jokes.
I just thought it was interesting you know? 🙂
Aridog,
Until we left in 2011, we were giving peace a chance with Iraq in the same way we’ve given – and continue to give – peace a chance in Europe and Asia since WW2. When we stopped our peace operations with Iraq, we stopped giving peace a chance.
Aridog, You assume incorrectly.
Add: Not to be remiss and more in line with an American context and precedent, in addition to the conditions that were changed to facilitate more productive Allied ‘dialogue’ with Germany in WW2, the productiveness of American ‘dialogue’ with competitive Japan up to 1941 was notably different than for the American ‘dialogue’ with Japan that took place following the reconfigured conditions by 1945.
Rafflaw…Give Peace a Chance.
Did we not do that in Iraq by the end of 2011? In Vietnam in 1972? How all that work out?
I’m still in touch with a few of the South Viet folks, refugees here now, plus some old vets with up to 6 years in-country, who have rather strong opinions and almost universally despise Kissinger and his “peace.” I guess it depends upon how you define”peace”…is it submission or actually a renaissance? I await the renaissance in the ME…because they are capable, historically and technically capable, if they can only shed the resurgent tribal nonsense. I have neighbors who have the skills but fear to utilize them….what “peace” will bring them peace? Beyond that, they are now fine Americans and I do not want them to leave.
PS: I was a child of the 50’s and 60’s, secondary and college education, etc, on two very politically active campuses….then a veteran in the late 60’s & early 70’s. None of us, not a soul that I knew, would have cited John Lennon as an authority on peace…he wrote songs, not treatises. Bob Dylan, maybe, if he’d only just not actually sung his own songs (I call it the Barry Manilow syndrome) …Joan Baez was far better on all of them. With draft of those times, John Fogerty got it more right than anything Lennon ever dreamed of…just my opinion, worth what it cost you. 🙂
Can I assume you cited John Lennon tongue in cheek?
Aridog
Rafflaw…Give Peace a Chance.
Did we not do that in Iraq by the end of 2011? In Vietnam in 1972? How all that work out?
I’m still in touch with a few of the South Viet folks, refugees here now, plus some old vets with up to 6 years in-country, who have rather strong opinions and almost universally despise Kissinger and his “peace.” I guess it depends upon how you define”peace”…is it submission or actually a renaissance? I await the renaissance in the ME…because they are capable, historically and technically capable, if they can only shed the resurgent tribal nonsense. I have neighbors who have the skills but fear to utilize them….what “peace” will bring them peace? Beyond that, they are now fine Americans and I do not want them to leave.
PS: I was a child of the 50’s and 60’s, secondary and college education, etc, on two very politically active campuses….then a veteran in the late 60’s & early 70’s. None of us, not a soul that I knew, would have cited John Lennon as an authority on peace…he wrote songs, not treatises. Bob Dylan, maybe, if he’d only just not actually sung his own songs (I call it the Barry Manilow syndrome) …Joan Baez was far better on all of them. With draft of those times, John Fogerty got it more right than anything Lennon ever dreamed of…just my opinion, worth what it cost you. 🙂
Can I assume you cited John Lennon tongue in cheek?
I ran across this today in my internet travels
This is the song that got Lennon killed … it can be interpreted so many ways and at first glance it seems almost juvenile and cynical for someone who made millions, made his band into a religion and who was celebrated as one of the best and brightest of the Queen’s subjects to write a song disparaging wealth, religion and nationality.
There are the people who accuse Lennon of being a Communist, atheist and anarchist and then those like his killer who accused him of simply being a phony and none of those things. And then there are those who take him word for word who think this is his way of telling everybody how to live in peace.
Key word: imagine.
The lyrics say to imagine a world where our differences – religion, nationality, social class – do not divide the human race into warring factions. There may or may not be a heaven or hell, and I doubt John expected everyone to trash their religion, country and possessions, but just imagine for one moment that those things didn’t come between people. That instead of presidents and dictators deciding policy, diplomacy was achieved by a fruit vender on the streets of Tehran (Iran) and a window washer in Manhattan (US).
No one would be building bombs, flinging around rhetoric in the news and announcing to the world that war is only six months away.
John Lennon – Imagine
Source:
http://songmeanings.com/songs/view/8671/
happypappies – lost all respect for Joan Baez when I saw an interview with her and she was asked to explain the meaning behind a song that she sung regularly. Her response was that she just sung them, did not think about them. After that I stopped listening to her.
Paule Schulte:
in response to happypappies:
Aridog Rafflaw…Give Peace a Chance. Did we not do that in Iraq by the end of 2011? In Vietnam in 1972? How all that work out? I’m still in touch with a few of the South Viet folks, refugees here now, plus some old vets with up to 6 years in-country, who have rather strong […]
happypappies – lost all respect for Joan Baez when I saw an interview with her and she was asked to explain the meaning behind a song that she sung regularly. Her response was that she just sung them, did not think about them. After that I stopped listening to her.
I am ectremely musical and still have a guitar and because of this conversation, I dreamed of playing ELP Lucky Man at My Grandma’s House this morning…… But I NEVER did any or sang or listened to whiny unmusical Joan Baez songs. Not that I have strong opinions or anything lol 🙂
happypappies – it WAS the ’60s and I thought Joan was sexy. But then I learned taste. 😉
I get it Paul. I get it. I got it the first time. I’m not totally dippy dense lolol 🙂
Nick Spinelli,
The context is competition – and dialogue in the form of negotiation is part of the competitor’s tool kit. As with any tool, negotiation is only effective when wielded skillfully to do the right job under the right conditions. Proper use of the negotiation tool to do the right job under the right conditions particularly requires it be used in concert with the skilled use of a set of tools. In fact, negotiation is normally effective in a job that follows and depends on the proper use of other competitor’s tools to set the right conditions – not as a replacement for those other tools.
As such, the Allied ‘dialogue’ with competitive Germany was counter-productive under the wrong conditions leading to WW2 whereas the negotiation with Germany at the conclusion of WW2 under reconfigured conditions was more constructive, though negotiation under those conditions was less constructive with competitive USSR.
Using negotiation with competitive ISIS under current conditions would be at best an improper cargo-cult application of ‘dialogue’.
The mindset that there is any way DIALOGUE is going to solve this problem is what led Neville Chamberlain to declare, “I believe it is peace in our time.” With ISIS we need some Churchill or Patton references, not John Lennon. “There can be no peace w/o victory.” ISIS may talk when they have been crushed. We need to crush them first. That people can’t see this boggles my mind.
rafflaw: “Give Peace a Chance.”
Giving peace a fighting chance was what we were doing under Bush.
rafflaw – try saying that to the guy who is holding you up. I am sure he will put his gun down and walk away.
Paul C. Schulte
rafflaw – try saying that to the guy who is holding you up. I am sure he will put his gun down and walk away.
I agree
Olly,
Indeed – respect the enemy.
I look forward to your thoughts on President Bush’s remarks at the 2004 Air Force Academy graduation in the light of the Eikmeier article and current events.
Darren,
so right. in light of what would have been John Lennon’s birthday a day or two ago, Give Peace a Chance.
Max-1…Max I am disappointed that you, too, did not read my original statement where I clearly infer my “glass” concept is rhetorical.
No, you do not need to details plans, especially if you have none. That really is part of my dilemma, those who don’t like radical solutions have no less radical alternatives. I find that sad. Lacking that, what have we to exchange?
happypappies
All conflicts end in dialogue…
I’m not sure I can name one modern war that has ended without the parties involved coming to some meeting point and dialoguing out the future PEACE between them. Because without dialogue people and states build walls of distrust and suspicion leading them back to future conflicts and wars. And these conflicts/wars aren’t about maintaining PEACE, instead they are about maintaining self righteousness.
Max-1
Regarding what you wrote in the paragraph preceded by “All conflicts end in dialogue…” that was a very wise observation. It succinctly described much.