Yesterday, I ran a column discussing the curious sight of rioters and looters demanding “justice” when what they are really describing is mob justice in Ferguson, Missouri. I noted that the evidence did not support the initial claims of the shooting of Michael Brown and that demonstrations are not substitutes for demonstrated evidence in a criminal case. The response, however, to the declination of charges has been precisely what President Obama and the Brown family sought to avoid in their public comments. In perhaps the most symbolic incident, Ferguson Market and Liquor, the store that Michael Brown robbed before he was killed, was looted by people demanding “justice” for Brown.
A security camera captured Brown strong arming the store owner after stealing from the store:
Regardless of how one views the evidence of the shooting, the store owner was clearly strong armed by Brown and did nothing beyond being the victim of a reported crime. However, he now has a ransacked store and is somehow blamed for the killing.
The media filmed as people carted out stolen merchandise out of the store last night:
The discussion of the resulting looting and rioting often seemed a bit too enabling and relativistic. There is no rationale connection between ransacking stores and seeking justice, a point that President Obama made eloquently last night as did the Brown family (though reportedly with the exception of Brown’s stepfather). Indeed, some “meanings” drawn from the incident extended all the way to federalism principles.
While St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch detailed the evidence including testimony from African-American witnesses who refuted accounts of Michael Brown’s friend, Dorian Johnson, and onlookers Piaget Cranshaw and Tiffany Mitchell. He was not shot in his back and was initially shot in a struggle with Wilson in (or partially in) the police vehicle. Nevertheless, the verdict was denounced by various commentators, including MSNBC contributor Michelle Bernard who called Brown the latest “casualty” of what seems to be nationwide “war on black boys.” Bernard curiously blamed federalism and state rights for part of the problem, saying that people see this case and say “we don’t want to hear about states rights.” She also calls on the Justice Department to “get involved” and “intervene.”
However, the Justice Department has intervened and reportedly also found no basis for charges in the case under civil rights provisions. If those accounts are accurate, the declination of such charges may trigger no violence by those who define justice as not a guaranteed process but a guaranteed punishment.
Zedalis,
Some people think you should hold the same views as they…or leave the country. It’s all about participating in the echo chamber here, doncha know?
Elaine – it was the tenor of his comments not the general content. If he is going to complain about how bad things are he either needs to move someplace he thinks is better or shut up.
That was a beautiful post Ari. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
It should give everyone food for thought.
Schulte – “…you can always leave the country”
Ah, the last refuge of the reactionary right. I’d rather not leave our nation to shed the likes of you and today’s crop of cynical and bigoted conservative haters without me. But thanks for the smartest statement of immigration policy I’ve ever heard from the white-wing.
zelalis – Obama and the Democrats no longer need your vote they just bought 5 million new ones. Might as well go where someone actually wants your vote.
The person who should be CHARGED is the “stepfather” who commanded “burn this b—- down!”
Charges of “inciting to riot,” among others, should be brought against the
Brown “stepfather.”
zedalis – the door swings both ways, you can always leave the country. Nobody is going to miss you.
I am astounded at those who would critique Professor Turley’s opinions on the Ferguson matter. He certainly has standing as a legal scholar and as a fair and just man, one I don’t always agree with but would never deign to sharpshoot from my position as a ordinary civilian with a military background. Rather I try to see the issue as he does, given his concise and succinct words, just possibly to change or modify my own opinions. In short, I listen. I listen to all of you as well, but can’t give the same credence to all of you, especially those who would denigrate Professor Turley for his opinion. Exactly, what is your standing? None the less,… I listen.
On another thread I cited the Malice Green incident in Detroit, when Mr Green died. Not a single shot was fired. He was hit with a flashlight. Both officers were charged and convicted and sent to prison for 10+ years, with good behavior allowing release from a longer sentence. I knew the officer held most responsible (he’s dead now from cancer) and had worked with him on security details at large music concerts. If I were to critique him I’d say he was too laid back, too reliant upon his physical toughness. And he was very tough. I live a stones throw from the location of the incident. He was an officer who did lose his sidearm once and had it turned on him, only his partner’s prompt action saved him. Upon his conviction I felt he had been railroaded, that he’d tried to use the least lethal force possible (a flashlight), however I am aware of my prejudice held in favor of a friend. We who supported him did not riot or try to harm anyone. I acknowledge that some folks did buy and wear tee-shirts that said: “Detroit, a town without Malice.” I was not one of them.
I live in a 90% Arab Muslim neighborhood, immediately adjacent (1-200 yards max) to a 85% African American community neighborhood, as well as a 70% Mexican/Hispanic neighborhood (half mile max) , where I attend church in a clustered parish…e.g., I have a choice of two churches, and I choose the Hispanic one….for the kids as much as anything. They are a joy to be near. In short, I live among multiple “minority” neighborhoods, and as the obvious local minority in the neighborhoods. Funny, I don’t have problems with any of them, save a very few fools, no different than any neighborhood. The fools and I have sort of a truce, and avoid contact most of the time, and shut up when we have it occasionally. We do not exchange threats. I do not deal well with threats….and that may be a character flaw in me. Far better experience than I had long ago trying to live in lily white far suburbs. Never lived anywhere else where seeming honest people could look you in the eye and lie like a rug…not anywhere, even in my 3 years living in Asia. I have never understood that.
As I read the judgments of those who feel Michael Brown was poorly served, and PO Wilson was let get away with a crime, please tell us how many of you actually live in pronounced minority neighborhoods? How are you so certain of your opinions? Is it based on first hand experience? Do any of you hear random gunshots in the night regularly? I do ….and I doubt they are fired by police. How do you know what you know about minority neighborhoods? What are your experiences day to day with the minorities you live among? If you do. One of my Arab Muslim (Yemeni) neighbors just gave me a gift from his travels and a stop in Germany (he is a merchant mariner) … it was a hand painted religious themed Christmas tree bulb bought in Germany…guess he hates me like all the rest, eh? Every year one neighbor or another gives us a gift near Christmas that is germane to the holiday, the one they don’t believe in but respect that we do. I make a positive effort to demonstrate “Zakat” during Ramadan, which means the sharing of gifts, with the unfortunate or symbolically among your friends who participate in Ramadan, so usually I make gifts of sweets and various pies on the day of Eid al Fitr. It is not hard to get along, if you try and give up old prejudices. An old boss of mine, who spent 6 years in Vietnam, recently returned to visit both north and south and came home fulfilled….he knew he could go back and fit in and he did. Of course it helped that he spoke the language. 🙂
Did any of you hear or read Michael Brown’s father and family asking for a peaceful resolution? Or is it more important that a few “won’t take it anymore.” Do you know with any degree of certainly just who those “wont’ take it” folks are? What is the basis for your opinions that injustice is common in America? That this is an injustice? Have your read all of the released Grand Jury evidence?
And lastly, have anyone of you (I am sure there must be some) who have fired at an opponent or enemy with a firearm? Do you really know what that takes to do it? It is far from instinctive. You will fight, by firearm or by hand, as you have trained. As you have trained repeatedly. That is what explains the number of rounds fired…no police officer save a very few have the repetitive training for fire discipline that a soldier does, and most soldiers on front lines have far more than I ever had. If you think emotional excitement is a driver of accuracy, you are kidding yourselves. I can place 10 rounds in a 5 inch circle, timed fire (1 shot per second in my case, instead of the regulation 2) at 25 yards at the range, but in a firefight I’d be hard pressed to place one. So, yes, 10 or 12 shots is hardly uncommon….and officer Wilson did better than most.
I apologize for what must seem like a “scold”…it is not, it is merely asking questions related to the opinions of those who are convinced that Officer Wilson murdered an unarmed man. I’m relating that most of my life has been spent living as a minority among demographic minorities, and I feel it has given me a better life.
I will try hard to not do this again.
Annie,
What do you want for outside investigators?
The shooting of Michael Brown took place in the City of Ferguson by a city of Ferguson Police Officer. The investigation was immediately turned over to an outside agency…the St. Louis County Police Department. That County investigation was joined by federal authorities. Evidence obtained by the county was shared with the feds. Evidence found by the feds was share with the county.
Do you want investigators in Wisconsin to investigate crimes in Missouri?
Elaine: “…it is time to treat deadly force as a potentially serious public safety problem.”
After America finishes flexing it’s ‘bigot muscle’, perhaps the lens will broaden to how our liberties are being usurped by a police state run amok
“STUPID” voters, aptly defined by Jonathan Gruber, were on the street in Ferguson last night. Gruber was right. Those are the “stupid” voters that liberal dumbocrats load up en masse on buses and transport directly to the voting booth. Gruber, “the stupid voters don’t know that if you “corporate tax” healthcare insurance companies, the corporations pass the tax through and the customers pay the tax.” That’s a “stupid” voter to quote Gruber.
Ben Franklin said that we gave you “a republic if you can keep it.” America was a restricted-vote republic, not “one man, one vote” “democracy.” American Founders feared a vote of the masses – they did not establish a “one man, one vote” “democracy.”
“Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king’s horses and all the king’s men
Couldn’t put Humpty together again.”
America must repeal back to the Preamble, Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Rudy Giuliani Says White Cops Are Needed To Stop Black People From Shooting Each Other
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/23/rudy-giuliani-ferguson_n_6207608.html
Excerpt:
ProPublica recently found that “young black men are 21 times as likely as their white peers to be killed by police,” according to data collected between 2010 and 2012.
And this tension isn’t anything new. In 1967, a panel convened by President Lyndon Johnson after the race riots in Newark and Detroit characterized the relationship between police and minority communities as “abrasive.”
“To pursue our present course will involve the continuing polarization of the American community and, ultimately, the destruction of basic democratic values,” the panel concluded.
The racial disparity between police forces and communities at large remains significant. According to The New York Times, “[i]n hundreds of police departments across the country, the percentage of whites on the force is more than 30 percentage points higher than in the communities they serve, according to an analysis of a government survey of police departments.”
DBQ -“…he should have remained neutral and called for calm.”
Because a vigorous prosecution was apparently too much to hope for from McCullough.
zedalis – the Ferguson Grand Jury was used as an investigative tool.
Killings by Utah police outpacing gang, drug, child-abuse homicides
http://www.sltrib.com/news/1842489-155/killings-by-utah-police-outpacing-gang
Excerpt:
In the past five years, more Utahns have been killed by police than by gang members.
Or drug dealers. Or from child abuse.
And so far this year, deadly force by police has claimed more lives — 13, including a Saturday shooting in South Jordan — than has violence between spouses and dating partners.
As the tally of fatal police shootings rises, law enforcement watchdogs say it is time to treat deadly force as a potentially serious public safety problem.
@ Issac
I vote for incompetent, since the Governor was one of the first to fan the flames by expressing a wish for a “vigorous prosecution” of Officer Wilson, before any evidence had been even looked at. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeffrey-meyer/2014/08/20/only-nbc-acknowledges-gov-jay-nixon-caling-vigorous-prosecution-misso
As Governor and part of the executive branch of the State……he should have remained neutral and called for calm, instead of jumping on the let’s get Wilson bandwagon. Throwing fuel on the fire with the incompetent Eric Holder and the even more incompetent Obama fanning the flames.
zedalis – is it not common knowledge that one who commits a felony is a felon?
Schulte – Your “common knowledge” that isn’t. It’s unbecoming to slink away from one’s bombast in this manner.
I haven’t read all of these posts and can’t. I do have one question, however. The Governor seems to have brought in more National Guard only after the rioting got out of hand. Why didn’t he have every available police and guard member protecting the public? There was a fifty +% chance of a riot. Indiscriminate looting and destruction of property fueled by callous low lifes, seen gleefully looting toilet paper and liquor from stores has nothing whatsoever directly to do with the issue.
So, either the Governor is incompetent and allowed this to happen because he is deficient in leadership qualities, or he did what leaders have been doing from the beginning of time; letting the mob release some of its power before going in. There is precedent for this in the riots of LA, Detroit, etc. When the police came in too soon and too hard the results were whole city blocks up in flames. Authoritarian leaders throughout history with the power to kill at will have typically allowed the mob to vent.
So, the question is, was the Governor incompetent or simply following an age old strategy. Either way if by using video evidence the perps can be jailed for looting, then they should be, and for more than a few months. This addresses my interest in this blog of Turley’s in which he and others focus primarily on issues of the law. Ideally the law should be the last deciding factor, however, people make laws and therefore it is the actions of people pragmatic or incompetent that ultimately decides.
issac – since the looters seem to be wearing bandannas, it is hard to identify who is doing the looting. That is why the best way to stop looters is to shot them. Then you know who it is. I need to correct myself. Those are unfunded shoppers, not looters. And as there is no law against unfunded shopping, I guess there was no reason for the governor to have more national guard out. I think part of the government reaction is the result of DOJ actions taken after the last riots. I think everyone, except the feds, are a little gun-shy.
Schulte –
You have a problem admitting you lied?
zedalis – what did I lie about?
Breaking news 12:50pm
Rev. Al Sharpton is live on NBC giving a faith healing sermon for M.B.
To God be the glory……Not to Al
http://www.michaelbell.info/
The Michael Bell Shooting- A plea for change.
Website for the Ferguson National Response Network. Think those guys you watched loot a liquor store put this website and its plans in many cities together?
http://fergusonresponse.tumblr.com/
Michael Haz – It is important for anarchists to be organized. Nothing like calling a rally and nobody showing.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-after-police-killed-my-son-110038_Page2.html#.VHS9jmt5mSM
What we need is a Federal law like the in Wisconsin that has outside investigators that investigate police shootings. This is what African Americans and concerned Americans everywhere should work towards and focus energy to on. If we don’t wan to see more cities up in flames, things need to change drastically.
Inga – cities go up in flames over basketball championships, although I do agree about the outside authorities to examine police brutality, sweetie.
Inga, you have had a comment deleted.
Squeeky, what if yo were a fat, short, homely woman? I’m NOT sayin you are, I have no idea, nor do I care, BUT how would it go over if I wrote poetry about you in a disparaging way calling attention to your obesity and unattractiveness? Do you think that writing disparaging poetry and making disparaging remarks to me calling attention to my heritage is fair game? I suggest you think about that.
Squeeky, I’m no talking about your holiday poem. I’m talking abou your continuous disparaging references to my heritage, “Polizei Frau comment above and the “Krankenschwester” poem of a few days ago. You know what your’re doing. Plus you have made other references to my heritage that I’ve ignored over the last week or so.
So is making comments about their ethnicity I guess.
Olly you have no idea how your reference to Sybil is apt, but you’re looking in the wrong direction. You simply have no idea, too funny. Now I’m chuckling even harder.
Inga – dearie, be careful, you have a low humor threshold. You don’t want to do serious injury to yourself.
Sandi,
Huh? Why in the world do you think I have a negative attitude toward police? Because I don’t think we should be complacent about the many incidents of police abuse and shootings? My OWN brother was in the Milwaukee Police Department for years until he retired a couple of years ago. I am acquainted with many of his co workers and friends on the MPD. My brother has agreed that cops are using deadly force too quickly. My sister in law was a Milwaukee cop too, we honestly discuss the problems that DO exist. If we don’t recognize them, how will we solve them? Professor Turley has for years now written about police abuse around the country and he has done so because here is a REAL problem.
Michael Haz, I’m familiar with your brothers case. My brother probably knew him. But I can assure you that both my brother and my sister in law are not on board with the numerous tasings and shootings of unarmed people. The 12 year old boy who was just shot and killed, the guy in Wlamart, so many, too many.
http://www.policeforum.org/assets/docs/Subject_to_Debate/Debate2013/debate_2013_julaug.pdf
This is my brother and his wife. My brother counseled troubled cops. He cares deeply about cops and the knows full well the stresses of their jobs.
Nor do you speak for cops Haz.
Haz, hint. If you want a pleasant conversation, you don’t start out immediatly antagonistic.