I have long argued in my column as well as numerous blog postings that our country is legally bound to prosecute people responsible for ordering torture during the Bush Administration. There is no question that water boarding is torture as recognized by President Obama, Attorney General Holder, the United Nations and virtually every expert in this field. However, while you may want to try to rewrite legal precedent (as did John Yoo and Jay Bybee in their infamous Torture Memos), you should not try to rewrite history. That is what former Vice President Dick Cheney appears to be doing this month. He told Chuck Todd on Sunday that we never prosecuted anyone for water boarding — an assertion that I and others have repeatedly raised over the years. The statement is simply false and adds historical revisionism to legal revisionism in our sordid foray into torture.
On NBC’s “Meet the Press” this last Sunday, Todd asked: “When you say waterboarding is not torture then why did we prosecute Japanese soldiers?”
Cheney responded:
“Not for waterboarding. They did an awful lot of other stuff. To draw some kind of moral equivalent between waterboarding judged by our Justice Department not to be torture and what the Japanese did with the Bataan Death March, with slaughter of thousands of Americans, with the rape of Nanking and all of the other crimes they committed, that’s an outrage. It’s a really cheap shot, Chuck, to even try to draw a parallel between the Japanese who were prosecuted for war crimes after World War II and what we did with waterboarding three individuals — all of whom are guilty and participated in the 9/11 attacks.”
In fact, we did prosecute. Indeed, the International Military Tribunal for the Far East convicted and ultimately executed Japanese war criminals Akira Muto and Iwane Matsui for atrocities at Nanking. This included water boarding prisoner, though it was called “the water treatment” where “the victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach until he lost consciousness.”
Moreover, in 1947, we prosecuted Yukio Asano for the following these specific acts:
Specification 1: That in or about July or August, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture Morris O. Killough, an American Prisoner of War, by beating and kicking him, by fastening him on a stretcher and pouring water up his nostrils.
Specification 2: That on or about 15 May, 1944, at Fukoka Prisoner of War Branch Camp Number 3, Kyushu, Japan, the accused Yukio Asano, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture Thomas B. Armitage, William O. Cash and Munroe Dave Woodall, American Prisoners of War, by beating and kicking them, by forcing water into their mouths and noses, and by pressing lighted cigarettes against their bodies.
Specification 5. That between 1 April, 1943 and 31 December, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture John Henry Burton, an American Prisoner of War, by beating him, and by fastening him head downward on a stretcher and forcing water into his nose.
Asanao was sentenced to 15 years confinement at hard labor.
As noted by the Washington Post, First Lt. Seitara Hata, Sgt. Major Takeo Kita and Sgt. Hideji Nakamura faced similar charges. As noted by the Post, the testimony included that of Cpt. William Arno Bluehe who said “After beating me for a while they would lash me to a stretcher, then prop me up against a table with my head down. They would then pour about two gallons of water from a pitcher into my nose and mouth until I lost consciousness. When I revived they would repeat the beatings and ‘water cure’ . . . . The tortures and beatings continued for about six hours.”
Then there was Thomas B. Armitage:
“[We] were strapped to stretchers and warm water poured down our nostrils until we were about ready to pass out. [The Japanese] strapped him to a stretcher and elevated his feet and then poured on his face so that it was almost impossible for him to get his breath. [The victim] was then taken into the corridor, strapped to a stretcher, which was tilted so that his head was toward the floor and feet resting on a nearby sink.Water was then poured down his nose and mouth for about twenty minutes. Then I was taken into the hallway of the barracks. Both of the Japanese still insisting I was guilty and urging me to confess.”
Likewise, during the Vietnam War, an American soldier was court-martialed for water boarding a prisoner.
Ironically, while the Senate Report works hard to exonerate the Senators themselves from their past knowledge as well as Bush and Cheney, Cheney to his credit has admitted that both he and Bush were fully informed of the use of program.
The cost of our torture program — and the failure to prosecute a single official for it (or the destruction of evidence and false statements revealed in its aftermath) will continue to cost this country dearly. Countries like Iran, North Korea, and China have already cited our use of water boarding to defend against their own abuses. When our soldiers or citizens are water boarded in the future, countries will play back Cheney’s words and others to say that such abuse is not torture. When we demand that officials in other countries be prosecuted for torture, they will mock our hypocrisy and own history. As much as history may be an inconvenient contradiction for people like Cheney, it will remain unrevised and unvarnished. We have prosecuted both Americans and foreigners for water boarding and we were right to do so. That is not the history that we should work to forget.
When did Jon Stewart become someone to listen to seriously? He is a comedian and occasionally not good at that. Quoting him on this site as having something of importance to say is questionable. I don’t think he has fact checkers, unless he borrows them from NBC, because they don’t use them anyway.
Inga, the Clinton’s tortured me for eight years! Then I got four more from her!
Catching up on this site and Twitter. I like this site better than Twitter; 140 characters limits the discussion.
So, as I read this morning, I’m wondering if I could kill someone. I’ve always thought no, but give me a gun and put a person in front of me, telling me he had chopped children’s heads off. Sorry, not chopped, sawed for several minutes while victim screams. Yes, I could. I think it would change me forever.
Why is everyone so upset that people who’ve done heinous things pay a price? If I saw a video of the child being killed, I’d want the person who did it to have a slow, agonizing death.
From what I’ve learned about the horrors the Germans put human beings through, executing them should have been simple. Especially the medical experiments. I was surprised to learn how many German personnel at the camps were lined up and shot. I listened to a tape of a soldier describing what they saw. He broke down several times. Watching living skeletons trying to run toward them, but collapsing. Hugging a man who felt like nothing in a shirt.
Now we see it, no one has to describe it. The body of a little girl with her head by her body. So now my question is how could we not do anything? This little girl born into a democracy, killed by lunatics. We watch. The quote “to whom much is given, much is expected” repeats. How much we’ve been given. Should anything be expected? I think so.
” How much we’ve been given. Should anything be expected? I think so.”
I think many of us agree that we should do something. The question is what.
Many of us do not think that torture or ‘ slow, agonizing death’ are an answer or useful at finding an answer.
The greater the problem the more serious and focused we should be and that means realizing emotional lashing out will not help.
Sandi, You hated history because of all the subjects taught, it is the most mismanaged. Unbroken was a great book. I hope the movie is half as good.
Well, hopefully it wasn’t the nurses who were being tortured. o_O
Inga, I just did the math. Seven days without sleep? Is that possible? I wouldn’t want a nurse giving me a shot with seven sleepless days,
Sandi – the World Record is around 11 days, but after two it begins to effect you. By four you are talking to imaginary beings.
Nick, I read a great deal. Just finishing Lee Child’s new Jack Reacher “Personal” very good so far. I enjoyed “Broken” so is it the movie you don’t like? Why our movie theaters postponed the one about Kim Jong? We read a lot of books (have two walls devoted to book shelves). The bios this time of year; we wait for library copies. I like novels with historical setting. Love history. Why didn’t I when in school?
Sandi, that’s good, waterboarding wouldn’t be on my list of things to “accomplish before I die” either. 😆
Inga, on my list of things to accomplish before I die, things really important to me. Water boarding isn’t even on the list, and never will be.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=redheaded_cia_manager_1
This woman is a bad actor.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/unidentified-queen-torture
The unidentified Queen of Torture. Now identified.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/19/senior-cia-officer-center-torture-scandals-alfreda-bikowsky/
Meet Alfreda Bikowski, the senior officer at the center of the CIA torture program. This woman needs to be at he TOP of the prosecution list.
Inga – I knew it, I just knew it. A woman had to be behind all this torture stuff.
Blacklisting of Americans on U.S. soil is far worse than torture or false imprisonment – this is the really big story nobody is reporting on.
Blacklisting is the “intended” consequence of continual war and a permanent suspension of our Bill of Rights.
What makes it far more evil than for American citizens is: it’s a life sentence of government abuse not based on any wrongdoing or any violation of law. It can literally destroy livelihoods and cause premature death for constitutionally protected activities.
Most of the “color of law” crime victims aren’t aware they were targeted so there are few official complaints to watchdog agencies. Even those that are aware of it can never file a police report or meet legal standing in court as a plaintiff because the goal is never conviction – the goal is to silence political speech and political obstacles. Only government whistleblowers can uncover these crimes.
James Madison said that American democracy can’t survive with continual war, this is what he was talking about.
Ross – you complain about all these people being blacklisted yet you claim they cannot prove it. So, following that line of thinking, how do we know it is occurring?
Okay Churchill; you go get’em tiger!
Of course the many other moments and many other times leading up to ‘this moment and this time’ had absolutely no influence. These are just rogue politicians and their minions that popped up out of nowhere and when they go down, *poof*, no more tyranny. Get a grip!
If you are truly serious about cleaning our government house then pick a better cause like the IRS which abuses OUR citizens with impunity, rather than one that aids international terrorism.
Cheney isn’t fit to run an anthill
Inga,
The Jon Stewart video you posted, with Cheney saying something to the effect that he was worried about the guilty guys going free and was not worried about that one innocent man who died, made me think of this quote by the late 1700s English jurist Sir William Blackstone, “better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.” An interesting juxtaposition.
There is a lot more in the report. Maybe some reader or group could put together a quick and dirty guide to key elements of abuse and torture for those interested in what was done in their name.
Even if it only covered KSM that would still give citizens a bit of the flavor of what was done during those times.
There is a difference between convicted “terrorists” (based on proof) and “terror suspects”.
In the latter term “suspect” is the noun and it means doubt (not certainty). 99% of the people we are discussing are “suspects” and the evidence has not proven they are actually terrorists.
Sandi, why do you trust him to be honest? He has a vested interest in making himself look less guilty of torture, which is and was illegal.
” why do you trust him to be honest? He has a vested interest in making himself look less guilty of torture, which is and was illegal.”
He is a war criminal struggling to keep public opinion at bay so he does not live out his natural life behind bars.
But I will check about the number of sessions and the number of pours.
Those who don’t care are not going to be convinced by facts.
But some want to know what was done in their name.
bfm – why do you trust the writers of the report to be honest? They only attacked Republicans, didn’t interview anyone and dropped the report on the same day the Gruber testified.
From page 521 of the pdf: “DIRECTOR HAYDEN: “He had nine separate days in which waterboarding took place. He also was subject[ed] to sleep
deprivation and I believe his deprivation was the longest of any detainee’s, at one stretch, and I think that may be what Senator Hatch was referring to by that 180 number. That’s the number ofhours at one stretch.””
I am going to guess that if Director Hayden were mis quoted he would have made public his objection and clarified the remarks attributed to him.
More from pg 521: “KSM debriefer and Deputy Chiefof ALEC Station told the inspector general that KSM “figured out a way to deal with [the If^^^mi CTC Legal, told the inspector general that the waterboard “was of limited use on KSM.”^^^^ CIA records indicate that KSM was subjected to the waterboard interrogation technique at least 183 times.”
Note: Subjected 183 times to water board technique agrees with other sources released long before the Senates torture report.
I am sure a 500+ page report has inaccuracies. What report of that length does not. But why would we doubt the main lines of the report. The authors have to know the main actors are alive with plenty of access to the media.
The CIA has put on plenty of grandstanding. But it is in their power to release source documents to directly contradict the report. The could present the actual interrogators to state publicly ‘I did not apply water 183 times to his face’.
The CIA has not contradicted the report in any detailed way. That ought to lend strong credibility to the report.
“why do you trust the writers of the report to be honest? They only attacked Republicans, didn’t interview anyone and dropped the report on the same day the Gruber testified.”
I don’t care why or when the report was released. The motives for release, even if manipulative, have no bearing on the veracity of the report.
In some cases CIA personnel were not ordered for interview because at the same time there were under DOJ investigation. The lack of interview may indicate the Senate Executive Summary is incomplete. But that in no way suggest we should not use it as a resource to investigate fully the crimes committed in our name.
I see no evidence that any one was attacked due to party affiliation. Let the facts fall where they may. People like me,and I am confident that is the vast majority of Americans, care not at all the party of perpetrators.
This report is largely consistent with other information that has been presented over the past few years. In particularly readers might want to look at this report from the Constitution Project:
http://detaineetaskforce.org/pdf/Full-Report.pdf
And further documentation of detainee abuse is contained in the Taguba report, Investigation of the 800th military police brigade. BTW I consider General Taguba a true American hero:
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/torturefoia/released/TR3.pdf
What we see again and again is a patter of detainee abuse. Frequently the methods are similar or identical. Whether is is at the unit level as in the Taguba report, the theater level throughout Iraq and Afghanistan, or at the agency level as in the CIA, we see the same claims, the same crimes, the same denials and the same justifications: it was out of control individuals, or what ever their sins those involved had good intentions.
The fact is these reports and numerous other articles document a patter of abuse and criminal activity. Collectively they are far more convincing that any single report could possibly be.
We should also remember that the Senate Executive Summary is a 500+ page introduction to more than 6,000 pages that can and should be declassified and presented to the American public.
Further, we should remember those 6,000 pages are based on more than six million pages of agency documents reviewed by senate investigators.
To the claim the report was cherry picked, I will point out that a 500+ page summary of the findings from a more than 6,000 page report, based on six million pages of CIA documents necessarily focuses on the most heinous crimes that are best supported by the evidence.
To those who claim the Executive Summary is deficient, there is a simple solution – declassify the rest of the investigation.
I do not believe in collective guilt. As a people we are not guilty for what was done behind our backs and in our name. But we cannot turn away from facts that have been presented to us. We cannot cast a blind eye to these crimes. We have an obligation to investigate. We have an obligation to let the facts lead where they may.
Failure to follow the facts to the perpetrators of these crimes makes us complicit and responsible.
It is said a moment comes to every man and nation. This is our moment. This is our time. We have to choose.
bfm – one of the choices we can make is to be noncommittal. That is the one I make.
Bigfatmike, Dr. Mitchell, on Megyn Kelly, told us KSM had one session with three attempts. Two were for ten seconds, one forty seconds. Dr. Mitchell stopped the water boarding, but continued others with different types of interrogation, not enhanced. Dr. Mitchell was there and I trust him to be honest about what happened. If the numbers you quoted were true, they would have made it into the report.
Since I don’t care if a terrorist is water boarded, I don’t care how many times either. Somehow people are confusing terrorists with human beings. False. They are evil slime and gave up any plea of human rights when beheading, especially children. Evil slime have no human rights.