Baltimore City Councilman Carl Stokes (D) went on CNN yesterday and attacked President Obama and Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake (D) for referring to rioters in Baltimore as “thugs” saying, “just call them n*ggers”. It is a familiar controversy for readers of this blog. Last year, various commentators objected to my writing about the “thuggish” behavior of Seahawks’ cornerback Richard Sherman
as inherently racist — a position that I rejected. I have continued to use thug as both a noun and adjective. Now it appears that President Obama and Mayor Rawlings-Blake are being accused of the same use of racist code words by Councilman Stokes.
In the meantime, City Council President Bernard C. “Jack” Young apologized to rioters for calling them “thugs.”
“What we’re seeing today is not about Freddie Gray,” Young said. “It is about the pain, the hurt and the suffering of these young people. There’s no excuse for them to loot, riot and destroy our city. I made a comment out of frustration and anger when I called our children ‘thugs.’ They’re not thugs. They’re just misdirected. We need to direct them on a different path by creating opportunities for them.”
On CNN, Stokes objected to the use of the word when prompted by the host and said
“of course it’s not the right word to call our children thugs. These are children who have been set aside, marginalized, who have not been engaged by us. No, we don’t have to call them thugs . . . “calling them thugs — just call them n*ggers. Just call them n*ggers. No, we don’t have to call them by names such as that. We don’t have to do that. That is exactly what we have set them to. Now, when you say ‘come on,’ come on what? You wouldn’t call your child a thug if they should do something that would not be what you would expect them to do.”
He added that he supported the recent video of a mother slapping her son for participating in the riots, but insisted that it was the right thing to do (not because of his participation in riots) but to keep the police from killing him: “she was trying to save his life. It is clear that it’s better that she hit him than the police hit him and brutalize him and take his life from him.”
In my view, Stokes is wrong on the use of the “thug” as well as his criticism of the President and the Mayor. He views mirror an effort to bar the use of words deemed to be “codes” when used to criticize minorities. The same objections were heard earlier on this blog and other sites. Beanie Barnes was one of those calling out those who use the word: “Suddenly he was ‘classless,’ a ‘thug’ from Compton, and any manner of other negative terms that one can substitute for the N-word. Sherman was no longer human, but a racist caricature.”
I disagree with this view, which ascribes a racist rather than a descriptive element to the use of the noun. The word “thug” has been used widely on this blog to rather to people of different genders, races, and backgrounds. It is possible for blacks like whites to act like thugs. It is their behavior that is driving the use of the word like burning police cars and robbing people in the streets of Baltimore.
No, neither President Obama nor Mayor Rawlings-Blake are racists. These rioters are thugs.
@NickS
True. I hate to use the “N” word, but since President Johnson said it, I thought I needed to be accurate when quoting him. I am not sure the financial system won’t break down way before the next 150 years. Bringing in millions of poor, unskilled illegal immigrants is only going to make things worse all over, especially for the black folks.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
po
Are you this literal about everything or are just so about my comments?
Did you think that my initial comment made the case that EVERY single case of black rioting is called thuggery/mob and EVERY single case of white rioting called something else?
Amusingly you’re being too literal. The evidence of finding the opposite circumstance from the supposed reality you cite is also evidence against your assertion being generally true. If something is 90% true it’s unlikely the first effort to challenge it results in a contradiction.
Obviously my position is that your claim is wrong and a simple test proved my theory much more likely than yours. I find this particularly amusing given your continuous complaints about how others’ extreme comments disrupt the discussion.
Squeeky, LBJ has been right for 50 years so far.
@Po
You said, “our inability to take stock of what causes these extremes in behavior makes sure they will never cease.”
No. Po, it is “YOUR inability to take stock of what causes these extremes in behavior makes sure they will never cease.” Because conservatives are looking behind the issues to see what causes them. Why is the father NOT in the home? Was it always this way? If not, what changed???
Those are the kinds of questions that lead to real answers, but the answers do not fit the liberal-ish victimology agenda. And they don’t necessarily entail more government. Think about this:
Which political party relies upon poor and needy voters to turn out for them???
Which political party would lose if poor and needy voters were able to become more upwardly mobile and enter the middle class???
Which political party would suffer most if poor black women started getting married and then having babies, and thus improved their leconomic lot in life???
The answer to those three questions is, the Democrats.
Now ask, Which political party would be happier if poor black people got jobs and got off welfare???
Republicans.
Follow the votes. There is a reason why Lyndon Johnson said, and I quote,
These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.”—LBJ
and he said,
“We’ll have the niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years!”
http://patdollard.com/2014/02/flashback-lyndon-johnson-on-phony-war-on-poverty-ill-have-those-niggers-voting-democratic-for-the-next-200-years/
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
@TJustice
An individual who goes to law school needs to have those skills. That is why you have to read all those cases. If all you needed to know was the elements of charge, or the necessary elements of a negligence claim, all you would need is a good commercial outline, and then just the short one you find in the front part of the book, not the longer one with all the case cites.
Here is a transcript of a short (2 page) First Amendment case where the female attorney runs circles around the male defense attorney with her skillful of use of escalating distinctions. Read, and learn! This kind of stuff really happens in courtrooms everyday, all across the country:
https://squeekyfrommgr.wordpress.com/2015/04/19/hail-to-the-cheap/
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
I see your point, Squeek, however, the problem I see with your stance, along with many on the right, is the refusal to see any social problem where it starts. Your reaction always (well generally always, since I have Rick on my tail now) deals with the symptoms rather than the causes.
When I look at Freddie’s rap sheet, I see the social causes behind his actions,not that they are excusable, but our inability to take stock of what causes these extremes in behavior makes sure they will never cease.
We can blame things on absent fathers, sure, but if one is born without a father, in a downtrodden area, without good schools, lacking good food, lacking heat and guidance…only the love of God or people can take them out of the path of destruction they will embark on.
Fact:
The Baltimore department of public works has been sending notices to 23,000 residences threatening to shut off water for those owing more than $250. Meanwhile $15 millions of that missing revenue is owed by commercial meters, which have yet to be threatened.
So what you say, just pay your damn bill?
Well, water prices have risen 42% in last 3 years.
Squeeky
My point was that because an individual goes to law school does not mean they have those skills. Also, law schools (according to many practicing attorneys and judges) don’t do a great job of preparing law students for practice.
Many people have these skills and can develop them independent of law school.
And courtrooms are not a platform for critical thought (briefs and opinions yes: most oral arguments are a fraction of the entire case).
Courts are authoritative bodies in that they interpret the law and give us finality. Critical thought is not about finality.
Tyler, one thing that every person in the US can do is stop being a relativist on the rule of law. You don’t have to wait for an election. You don’t have to wait for the second coming of Christ. Right here, right now you (meaning every person) can be an honorable human being who demands justice by living it and demanding it of those in power. That is the only way we will bring the “should” closer to what is actually happening. Saying that this can’t happen is not really a true statement. We haven’t tried doing this so we don’t know what will happen should we do so.
Bringing about justice would require citizens to stop being partisan chumps! Right now, we can start having enough self respect and a real desire to turn things around. We don’t know if we can do it unless we try!
Why don’t we just call them “felon”. If some person of some race or ethnic group thinks that means “black” or “muslim” then so be it. Then we can go with their flow. Then we will have to call a Sicilian Mafia thug a white Italian American felon.
We could interject the song from Westside Story, The Jets.
You’re a Thug, You’re a Thug.
You’re a Thug all the way!
From you’re first little looting, til your last dying day.
And if you die sooner because of your acts.
We’ll bury you in a cooler so your farts stay intact.
etc.
@Po.
OK. No problemo. But, do you understand better the context in which First of Tha Month was offered??? It is a slice of real life in poor Black America.
Tell me, what job would YOU be prepared to offer a young man who has the same attitude as the folks in the song??? Because lots of people have to deal with that question. Somebody gotta trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Can’t these lefties find a Republican to blame this on, lets see Democrat Mayor, Governor, City Council and a Democrat president not a republican in sight, darn
Young men riot for the same reason they do Flash Mob smash and grabs. They’re bored and getting in trouble is fun. Only parenting can possibly, and not always, protect young adults from self destructive impulses combined with lack of experience. Burning down an old folks’ home just to watch it burn may sound like entertainment to someone who has no idea how hard it is to earn the money to pay for that. Or maybe they never learned responsibility or right from wrong.
The people protesting are doing so out of concern. Those who riot and steal do so to have fun, burn off steam, and get free stuff.
God forbid, if my child was rioting, throwing rocks at cops, I would have told him he was acting like a thug and dragged him home by the collar.
I suggest that we have the Mom Brigade, wearing yellow shirts, stand between the rioters and the cops and demand a peaceful protest.
How does getting thrown in jail for throwing a rock at a cop increase your chances in life? How does it add to the discussion? Is it racist if you’re arrested for throwing a rock at someone’s head? Is it racist to be called a thug if you’re acting like one?
Jill, you’re right about what the law says is proper care for those confined, and I agree that would be appropriate. But what “should” be and what “is” in reality are often two different things. Everyone stands around “shoulding” on themselves, but do nothing to correct the actual situation. And just rioting does not count, as this does not accomplish anything productive in this regard. This requires a fundamental change in the system that is currently broken.
Carl Stokes is wrong. “Thug” is defined as a violent person, especially a criminal. Tupac Shakur defined it as basically disadvantaged youth struggling against all odds. What sounds like a compliment is actually just an excuse for violent crime.
If someone throws rocks and bricks at cops, he is acting like a thug.
I tire of the PC police dissecting the English language beyond the obvious racial slurs.
Perhaps instead of excusing crime and violence, and giving people a pass, we should have a real conversation about what’s broken and fix it. One of the highest indicators for poverty and crime is having a single mother and an absentee father. That alone throws up more roadblocks than kids should have to face. 75% of people born out of wedlock is a problem.
I heard on the radio that Gray had undergone spinal surgery within a week of his death. That still needs to be confirmed, but it does shed a new light on the circumstances of his spinal injury. He should have been at home recovering, not out allegedly selling drugs. Even a normal arrest could have damaged his spine in such a fragile condition.
That said, the police are responsible for the welfare of those they arrested. I believe that medical protocols were either not followed, or need to be updated. We need to wait for a full investigation and then draw final conclusions on what went wrong and next steps.
alright, Squeek, bad example. Let us all assume I never made that comparison.
Tyger, justification is an odd thing, it is usually and fundamentally subjective. Many good men have found a dishonorable end at the hand of lesser men based on reasons morally wrong but justifiable. Too often, one knows not whom we are until after the smoke clears.
Also, what Jill says.
@TJustice
You said, “I don’t get how me being a law student has anything to do with making distinctions or being a good critical thinker. Me being a law student merely suggests I’ve passed prerequisites and received opportunities. ”
Uh, unless you are from some other country, or you plan on practicing some form of law where you never have to get out of the office, or go to court,(like Estate Planning), you will be completely outclassed if you can not make distinctions and think critically. Believe it or not, sometimes judges actually ask lawyers questions in the courtroom. I feel sorry for you if your answer is, “Your Honor, I don’t understand your question, but. . . I did go to class and pass the bar exam!”
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Annie, it’s just logical. Call it what you want, but if you get rid of criminals who cannot or will not adopt appropriate social behavior, they won’t be around to commit more crimes. They aren’t productive elements to your society, and keeping them confined doesn’t guarantee they won’t commit more crimes once they are released or have escaped. In fact, the stats indicate they actually will commit more crimes. This is evidence the justice system is not working in the way it was intended. Eliminating them is a step in the logically correct direction. Tolerating the repetitive criminal behavior only reinforces it and crime will just continually increase. This is the wrong direction, logically. But then, society is getting exactly what it is causing, but few people recognize that.
@Po,
No, it wasn’t my argument that writing about something was the same as that person being in favor of something, or doing it themselves. It was that the song is indicative of real life in the hood.
But, since you asked about Nabokov being a pedophile, this might interest you:
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1992-31531-001
Remember, “Lolita, in her prime was just thirteen. . .(Rodney Crowell, from Sex and Gasoline)
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Tyger,
Our law states that once any person is in custody of the authorities, it is their sworn duty to make certain that no harms comes to that person.
Your idea that criminals are favored, that they should be rehabilitated/released, confined forever or executed is an argument for another day.
If you support the rule of law, you will not support the abuse and killing of any prisoner while in custody of authorities. That’s it-period.