We have yet another horrific account of a primitive practice leading to the murder of an innocent person. The latest scandal occurred in Nepal Kodai Harijan, a father, admitted that he lured a poor child with a pack of biscuits and 49 cents. He then murdered the 10-year-old child on the alleged advice of a shaman who told him that the death would heal his ailing son.
Jivian Kohar, 10, was found playing with friends in the village and promised the food and money. He was then taken to a temple on the outskirts of the village where the father and other men performed a religious ritual. He was then taken to a field nearby where three people held him down as another slit his throat. His head was almost completely cut off when police found his body.
The village is the home of so called “untouchables” in Nepal — the lowest paid and most abusive sect in the culture. It is also the least educated.
As the father of four, I can see wanting to do anything for one of my children. However, the idea of sacrificing an innocent body to help my son is unthinkable. Yet a group of men followed the advice of this shaman.
Are you seriously trying to tell anyone here that this Faux organization CMP released the video without editing? Please, I have a bridge to sell you.
IF the videos were shown in their entirety and proved what they are attempting to prove about PP, we would be having a different conversation. WHY Are they not releasing the videos in their entirety
They WERE released in their entirety. The whole video and the truncated video. Just because YOU don’t know……anyway.
Here you go. Spend two hours watching these people have lunch. Be my guest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UjIM9B9KQ
It is hard to see how CMP’s videos could be “dishonest” or “deceptive.” They show what they show. The organization posted the videos in full on YouTube. I watched the second one, a lunch with Dr. Mary Gatter, in its entirety. It is around an hour and 13 minutes long. You can watch it here. This video, like the first one, leaves no doubt whatsoever that Planned Parenthood is in the business of selling aborted babies’ organs to private firms engaged in research. Nor does Planned Parenthood deny doing so.
The second video is also available in you want to go to http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/07/so-planned-parenthood-sells-babies-body-parts-is-it-a-scandal.php They have a link.
Educate yourself.
And people who believe these highly edited videos at face value ARE buffoons.
Inga – just think of Michael Moore and his movies. They are highly edited. He NEVER releases the unedited version.
I base my suspicions on their motives on the various other “Gotcha” videos by these extreme right wing organizations. They were ALL highly edited and when shown in their entirety a different story emerged. This has happened time after time.
Karen, IF the videos were shown in their entirety and proved what they are attempting to prove about PP, we would be having a different conversation. WHY Are they not releasing the videos in their entirety? Not curious? Afraid of what they might show?
But people are all buffoons who worry about this. Remember?
Karen, medical personnel sometimes speak too bluntly and cavalierly about medical procedures. I wonder what researchers say when they get a cadaver or some organs they’ve been waiting for in order to do research. I bet it’s not dissimilar. Medical personnel need to treat the living and the dead with respect.
I have just come across the next PP statement in response to the FAUX claims about dealing in baby parts you can see with your own eyes but that’s just a SMEAR:
“….We ran out of gas! We – we had a flat tire! We didn’t have enough money for cab fare! our tux didn’t come back from the cleaners! An old friend came in from out of town! Someone stole our car! There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! IT WASN’T OUR FAULT, WE SWEAR TO GOD!!!“
“Karen, I’m sure that the truth will come out in an investigation. I’m not against one. But the mere fact that this organization went to such lengths to try to smear PP in order to get it defended or whatever the hell this agenda is, shows that they didn’t have enough REAL information to make their case.”
1. It is not a smear unless someone disseminates information that they know not to be true. The investigation is still ongoing so this is not correct.
2. Why is being antiabortion automatically mean that they have no real information? Again, this statement is incorrect.
Again, you have confidently declared that it’s all a smear campaign, and they have no real information, without a shred of evidence, or the investigation being complete. You’ve done the exact same thing in multiple other threads involving police investigations, where you were proven to be completely wrong. So basically you’ve said that you support an investigation, but we’re buffoons for requiring one and you already know the information is all false.
Are you aware that you do this?
Just to show the other side, I visited the Center for Medical Progress website, which was referenced in the CNN link:
http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/2015/07/cmp-statement-on-planned-parenthoods-persecution-of-the-citizen-press-and-suppression-of-free-speech/
“Planned Parenthood trying to use the power of their political cronies to shut down free speech, to silence the freedom of the press, to persecute David Daleiden, and to save their half-a-billion in taxpayer money and avoid accountability to the law and the American people. Planned Parenthood and their political allies know our investigation has revealed the truth about the gruesome and horrific practices of partial-birth abortions and selling baby parts taking place throughout their organization. They will attack me and my organization all day long, but that does not change the facts about what our investigation has uncovered and what the American people now know — that Planned Parenthood is engaged in an enterprise-wide operation that traffics and sells baby body parts.”
Now, I don’t know if PP will be vindicated or not regarding the allegations that they profited from the sale of fetal body parts, but this thread will clearly illustrate the attempt to shut down the debate via name calling, and claiming all criticism is misinformation before anything is proven either way.
It is entirely possible that PP is innocent of all charges, guilty as heck, or that their lawyers have structured the payments in order to skirt the law, which is somewhere in between.
We literally do not know yet.
Here’s another link to the video:
http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/2015/07/planned-parenthood-vp-says-fetuses-may-come-out-intact-agrees-payments-specific-to-the-specimen/
“As the buyers and Planned Parenthood workers identify body parts from last fetus in the path lab, a Planned Parenthood medical assistant announces: “Another boy!””
That’s just gross, and disturbing to most people, I would think. Who does that???
This is why there is such pushback against ultrasounds, or at least requiring abortion providers to explain gestation to women patients. A surprising number of people think abortions just involve the blastula “ball of cells” stage. But when you have a pile of little hands and feet, and someone says gleefully, “Another boy!” that kind of brings a whole new reality to it, doesn’t it? And what does that say, when people just don’t want the information, and they don’t want to make an informed choice? That means, to me, that they would make a different choice if they had all the information, so they don’t want to think about it. That’s not informed consent.
I’ve pointed out before that the vast majority of people do think that abortion should be limited. For instance, almost all people would oppose an abortion of a full term baby in the birth canal via a partial birth abortion. The debate isn’t really about if abortion should be limited; it’s about where that line should be drawn. For some people, it’s never, for others, it’s when the fetus can feel pain, while others limit it at the 2nd trimester.
And seeing a pile of little body parts, picked over for organs to sell, with someone gleefully exclaiming that it’s a boy, will reignite that hotly contested issue about that line.
In re the PP videos, the Progressive Grand Inquisitor advises you not to believe your lyin’ eyes.
*Defunded*
Karen, I’m sure that the truth will come out in an investigation. I’m not against one. But the mere fact that this organization went to such lengths to try to smear PP in order to get it defended or whatever the hell this agenda is, shows that they didn’t have enough REAL information to make their case. Why are they releasing ONLY highly edited videos, instead of the entire unedited version? Does this not make you suspicious of their motives? It should. I say release the videos in their entirety.
I. Annie
1, July 30, 2015 at 4:07 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/politics/planned-parenthood-fourth-video/
“Following a similar format to the previous three clips, the edited video shows actors posing as researchers speaking with the Dr. Savita Ginde, who was at least at one time medical director of a Planned Parenthood branch in Denver.
“We cannot verify the conversation that appears in that video, as we do not know how it has been edited,” Planned Parenthood spokesperson Marie Logsden told Denver’s NBC affiliate. “We encourage you not to treat the conversation that is seen on tape as if it has been validated.”
“Our legal counsel provided line item edits to their proposed contract where we again clarified that we would strictly adhere to laws. Our staff asked probing questions about their process and didn’t enter into an agreement when those questions weren’t answered,” she said.“
Inga – all documentaries are ‘highly edited.’ There is even a Supreme Court case about it. Westmoreland vs. CBS (60 Minutes).
Annie-
Like the battles from RIL you bring over to FFS? And like how you trash this site and its commenters over at FFS? You’re truly the biggest hypocrite I’ve ever encountered.
Why is this misinformation? Has the investigation been completed yet? I was not aware.
The question is not whether any women are asked to donate their fetuses to science; the question is:
1. Were ever donor mother asked and proper permission obtained
2. Is PP profiting from the practice, rather than merely covering the salary of the employees for the time they spend picking through body parts with forceps and tweezers
3. Where is the statement made that PP’s sole purpose is to profit from fetal organs? I’ve heard that they exist to profit from abortions, and that fetal organs may be adding to that profit, but not that it is their sole reason for existence.
It’s not “misinformation” until it’s proven untrue. Then it would still not be misinformation, which is deliberate, but rather allegations proven false, unless those making the statement knew they were untrue when they made them.
Why is it relevant that actors posed as researchers in order to investigate whether PP really does sell fetal organs (which it does) or that it profits from such sale (which is still under investigation)?
Why are the videos illegal? Were they made in a state that prohibits recording conversations without their permission? If so, that would be unfortunate, as any valid evidence obtained would be thrown out, again, leaving the question of whether PP acted appropriately unproven.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/politics/planned-parenthood-fourth-video/
Dr Ginde, medical director of PP, said this:
“I know putting it under the research gives us a little bit of a, a little sort of a overhang over the whole thing,” Ginde says. “And in public I think it makes a lot more sense for it to be in the research vein, than I’d say, business venture.”
That, alone, would warrant an investigation.
The valid complaint has nothing to do with the investigation into PP’s activities on the fetal tissue market. Rather, it involves another antiabortion group, “E”, which took credit for hacking into PP’s database, stealing employee information. That has nothing to do with the videos, since it’s a separate group.
So I will ask, again, what is the misinformation, if the investigation is still ongoing? Or do you already know the results of the investigation, and can state confidently that the allegations were deliberately false. If so, why?
Squeeky, I highly doubt any commenter here except for Spinelli is interested in your vendetta against the posters over @ Flowers for Socrates. Why do persist in bringing your battles with them here to RIL? It’s boring and silly.
Inga – I enjoy the belittling of the commentors at Flowers for Algernon. It lightens my day.
Karen, are you serious? You ask where the misinformation is, then proceed to state the misinformation itself. To spell it out even more clearly, the Faux organ procurement organization that made these illegal highly edited videos is making the charge that Planned Parenthood is making a profit off of the organ donations and that the reason PP exists exists is to make a profit over said procurement of fetal organs donated by the woman receiving the abortion. Paul has said that the women were not even asked permission to donate. That is some of the misinformation I speak of. As I said, investigate away, discus away, no one wants to stifle the discussion. Both sides have the right to state their views on the matter.
Inga – I said the mothers might not have given informed consent to donate the organs. That is far different from saying that they did not give informed consent at all. If you are going to quote me, quote me correctly.
@Karen S
Bingo! Just here for purposes of disruption of the discussion. Nothing much to do now that the big story at another place is about a dead teacher in New Zealand. Or, that tempo affects how music sounds! 🙂
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
I wasn’t “faux outraged” when the UC system was alleged, and later found guilty of, dumping cremated remains and biohazard of human medical specimens, including sharps, into the ocean. And I’m not “faux outraged” at the allegations that PP has been profiting from selling fetal body parts. That’s gross and unethical, if it’s true.
I’ll wait for the results of an investigation, and I would never call anyone concerned about such serious allegations a buffoon.
Stop filtering everything through political goggles.
Exhibit A is at 5:39, completely supporting my last post above.
Name calling, attempts to shut down discussion, anything except actually list what is wrong with the assertions, and why. Any new information from the investigation, or anything else that actually contributes to the discussion of current events.