The lawyer for Kentucky clerk Kim Davis has stated that she met with Pope Francis during the pontiff’s visit to Washington D.C. last week and received encouragement from him in the meeting. It is a surprising disclosure, if true, but Attorney Mat Staver of the Liberty Counsel insists that the Pope spoke to Davis and her husband in English and said “Thank you for your courage” and told her to “stay strong.”
The Vatican is mum on the alleged meeting or who was present on September 24 at the Apostolic Nunciature in Washington. That was the same day that he had spoken to Congress.
That adds an interesting political wrinkle for Democrats who generally love (as do I) this Pope for his views on climate change, poverty, and other issues. The Pope however also spoke against abortion and does not support same-sex marriage. If he also supports Davis, it can create some difficult issues with the party line on the Clerk. After all, as we discussed today, you have one Democrat who reveres the Pope so much that he is actually dispensing the Pope’s drinking water to family from the glass used during his speech before Congress.
Of course, there is no reason why either Republicans and Democrats cannot still oppose the position of Davis even if (and that is still an “if”) the Pope supports her position. After all, many support the right to choose even when they are personally against abortion and remain practicing Catholics. Yet, it is intriguing that this is one of the people that the Pope would choose to meet if the account is correct.
I am surprised if the Vatican agreed to this meeting. Even the people on rope lines are often screened for the Pope though he is known to plunge into crowds. If this was a truly arranged “meeting,” it is pretty significant that Davis would be selected for such a meeting and encouragement. Politicians like Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz have been criticized for their support of Davis, who asserts the right to impose her religious views of the legitimacy of a marriage before performing her purely ministerial functions. Reporters have been trying to get the Vatican to confirm whether the Pope has added his voice of support.
Of course, the Vatican could spin the meeting as support for someone following her faith rather than endorsing her legal position. Nevertheless, the alleged meeting may be the most surprising in this even-filled Papal visit.
Or perhaps, one man’s cephalophore is another man’s blasphemer.
with all the genuine martyrs in prisons of the United States across the globe and Kim Davis is the one this blog talks about.
Fitting.
Weak.
Tawdry.
Sad.
Tabloid Material Here.
Davism2575.
The sole purpose of mankind is to perpetuate the species. Mankind can accomplish nothing else. Everything else created by man will deteriorate and vanish, requiring rebuilding. People who don’t engage in procreation have no purpose. They only thing they can effect is suicide of the species.
Marriage exists to assure procreation. It establishes a bond between a man and wife. That bond warns others that the spouses are protected by the bond. The bond provides parents who raise and protect the children produced by the bond; the marriage.
The process of procreation is conducted in and protected by the institution of marriage.
Deviation from that marriage model will generate adverse and unintended consequences and termination of races or species.
The American birthrate will decline into a “death spiral.”
Why have women stopped increasing the population of Americans?
Are American women racially-suicidal?
Did we discover that American women are ultimately self-terminating hedonists?
Did we discover that the smarter women become, the more likely procreation will cease, terminating races or species?
One would think that God made procreation desirable.
Was it Aldous Huxley who predicted baby factories?
Men who delight in the savagery of sodomy will answer…this type of ignominious activity has a price attached to it…when two people get married they take vows…not just to each other but to God…a vow is not an “afterthought”, it is a PROMISE!…a promise to our spouse and even more importantly to our Creator!
In order to fleece the flock the good shepards need to come and speak. The Pope is fleecing the flock. Money is pouring in. Meanwhile Kim is praising The Lard on Sunday, and cooking with Lard on Sunday. On Monday she goes back to Crisco. She is on a diet. The Pope told her to lose a hundred lbs. He informed her that the Gateway to Heaven is very narrow, kind of like the Gate that The Donald will build in the Wall on the Mexican border.
steve, Nice spin. But, I have read again the context of you’re “We’re all the same” statement. You see, in court, we should all be the same. But, there is rich man’s law and poor man’s law. Something on which we can both agree. But, court and law is not what you were talking about when you made your unscientific, “We’re all the same” comment. You were talking about capitalism, economics, and govt. You might want to go over to the Army Ranger post and see the ramifications of denying science.
Pedantic correction: where I said “love who” above should have been “love whom.” 😀
Max-1 … thanks for citation affirming the Pope’s meet up with Ms. Davis. I really doubted it due to his other avoidances. That said, I don’t think much of his counsel to her if it really was what is reported. Religion & Political Office shouldn’t be joined IMO.
Guinness asked …
What about her right to ” Conscientious Objection”?
Elected officials and enlisted military do NOT have a right to “conscientious objection” … only those forced to positions against their will have such a right. If you have a Constitutional, legislative, or judicial citation, please provide it.
Some today are calling it “accommodation,” but it is the same thing, at least you were honest in your use of the CO term.
As I’ve said several times before, where I live assertion of “conscientious objection” on religious grounds, by an elected official, would be very problematic. There are many religions and not all comport with the democratic process. We don’t get to choose any one over the others to decide what constitutes a legitimate conscientious objection. Thus none should be allowed.
I am Catholic and still firmly believe my faith is my personal province, and should not be a maker or breaker item if I were to ever be elected to public office, any more than it was when I enlisted.
Just to be clear, Ms. Davis was “forced” to comply with a federal court ruling, but she was not forced to be elected or to remain in an office…she blew it by citing “God’s Will” rather than setting up a state’s rights case. Even if the majority in Kentucky agree with her, as I do, but on semantic grounds vis a vis the term “marriage” not on whether one cannot love who they wish and be entitled to all the same rights by a union, if they choose it, by any other name. Common parlance that has stood for decades, some even centuries, is being diluted today, in courts, administrations, and legislative bodies…example the false equivalence of “tax” & “penalty” simply to satisfy political interests.
steve, You were the first person to bring to my attention this canonization. So, out of respect for you, I did some research. Being a former history teacher, i realize all history has context. What is a disturbing trend is imposing today’s mores on historical people and events. Add PC, a very current and pernicious practice, and much of history is “BAD” w/ “BAD PEOPLE.” Columbus, I’m betting is “BAD” in your eyes. But, did you know, Shakespeare is also “BAD” and “sexist.” Many female and even male English teachers now refuse to teach Shakespeare, Hemingway, and other male authors. Serra was a man of his time. I don’t think he was a saint. I think there are way to many Hall of Famers in sports, national holidays[today is National Old People’s Day] and saints in religion. But, Serra was like Columbus, a man of his times. Rewriting history is wrong.
Kim Davis is not a member of the Pope’s flock! If the Pope was so sure about the correctness of meetings with Ms Davis why did he do it in secret? He wanted to real us all in with with his “message”….but by hiding this meeting he lied. That is offensive and hurtful
His support of a government official who decided to enforce her religious beliefs on others is a dangerous precedent to set. Ms. Davis had an option when she found that she allegedly could not do her job, resign. She didn’t resign because she wanted to keep getting her $80,000.
I am deeply disappointed in the Pope. This visit, in secret, tarnishes his visit and undercuts his message of inclusion.
Justice Holmes – part of the Pope’s job is to be pastoral, to take care of his flock and to make the flock grow. Meeting with Kim Davis will do that.
Justice Holmes wrote: “His support of a government official who decided to enforce her religious beliefs on others is a dangerous precedent to set. Ms. Davis had an option when she found that she allegedly could not do her job, resign. She didn’t resign because she wanted to keep getting her $80,000.”
You are wrong to listen to all the false propaganda about Kim Davis. She was not forcing her religious beliefs upon others. She was being ordered by the federal court to violate her faith and act in an unconscionable way. Her case is not setting any kind of precedence. The right of conscience already has a deep history in legal jurisprudence. Nobody should ever be asked or forced to resign because of a religious conviction that is easily accommodated by a small change to a legal form. Homosexual activists should not be allowed to force Kim Davis to give her personal imprimatur to gay marriage. That is evil.
I respect the Pope for recognizing the human right of conscience and for encouraging Kim Davis to stay strong in her faith. I think the homosexual activists and the ACLU could learn some things from this Pope.
I am amazed, that you, a Catholic, Professor TURLEY, would be so surprised that the Pope would visit one of his flock. Especially, one who is strong enough to fight for her beliefs. Which look like they are being trampled on, in this country, presently.
What about her right to ” Conscientious Objection”?
I was even hoping, when you finish fighting for the rights of Congress, you might help to solidify the Rights of Christians.
LOL
https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/2599/7407/original.jpg
AN OPEN LETTER TO KIM DAVIS
https://action.aclu.org/secure/letter-kim-davis?redirect=kimdavis&ms=web_150930_religiousliberty_letterkimdavisPR
Dear Kim Davis:
As you may know, when you fall in love with someone, you hand your heart and soul over to them. Anyone who has committed to sharing their life with another human and forming a family unit knows that it is the biggest and most rewarding adventure you will ever take.
You know that all of the laughs and all of the tears won’t fall on the echo of an empty room, but will instead be received in the warm embrace of someone who has pledged to see you at your best and love you at your worst. You know that person is there to help pick you up on those days when the odds are stacked against you. You know that you never have to do the dishes alone.
When I met John, I had no idea that I would spend the next two decades building a life with the man who would one day inspire me to demand our right to be recognized by our country. I earned the right to lawfully call him my husband, just as you have a right to call your husband such. Love transcends gender.
You’re imposing the same indignities on couples in Rowan County that John and I suffered when Ohio would not legally recognize us as a married couple. Thankfully, the law is now changed so that nobody should ever have to experience the injustice that John and I endured. No one is above the law, Kim, not even you.
I joined the fight to have our love treated equally precisely because our love is equal. The love that any family shares is no more or less worthy than that of any other, and it’s not fair for you, or anyone, to judge. It’s your job to simply do your job. Issuing a marriage license at work is not a personal endorsement of my marriage any more than recording a deed is an endorsement of my home ownership.
It’s simply following the rules in this civil society in which we’ve all agreed to be members.
What truly matters is the kindness and compassion we share with our families and with those around us. Love makes a family. And as of June 2015 the federal government agrees.
I did not fight for my right to call John my husband in vain. I stand today in his memory and proudly declare him my legally wedded spouse. Do not stand in the way of others seeking their legal right to have their love recognized.
Sincerely,
Jim Obergefell & 13,397 ACLU Supporters
Aaron and Melissa Klein were in D.C. last weekend and the Pope didn’t meet with them… Odd, NO?
Sweet Cakes by Melissa Owners Defying Order to Pay $135,000 to Lesbian Couple Who Wanted a Wedding Cake
http://www.wweek.com/2015/09/29/sweet-cakes-by-melissa-owners-defying-order-to-pay-135000-to-lesbian-couple-they-wouldnt-bake-a-wedding-cake/
https://s3.amazonaws.com/wapopartners.com/wweek-wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/29231250/lede_rachelandlaurel_ronwalters-lightproductions-inline-2.jpg
Max-1 – I know you are not Catholic, but the Pope does not make his own schedule out. He has a team of people who work that out. For instance, it would have been better to come to CA to canonize Fr. Serra, but because of time constraints he did it in D.C. We can only hope that St. Fr. Serra forgives him at some point.
Paul writes, “I know you are not Catholic, but the Pope does not make his own schedule out. He has a team of people who work that out. For instance, it would have been better to come to CA to canonize Fr. Serra, but because of time constraints he did it in D.C. We can only hope that St. Fr. Serra forgives him at some point.”
I’d guess he didn’t canonize Serra in California because of the other than fond reception he would have received.
stevegroen – had he gone to CA he would have been well received by the Hispanic community. Only activists are a problem
MATT 6:
MATT 6: 1 “Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
MATT 6: 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
Airdog,
Vatican confirms pope met with Kim Davis
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/30/vatican-quiet-claim-pope-met-kim-davis/73078774/
davidm
Are you opposed to me getting a full screening at PP before you show me those in’s and out’s about gay sex?
Annie
“Max,
You’d think they would have some real governing to do instead of holding a kangaroo court over a woman’s right to health care.”
= = =
LOL on so many levels.
It seems the GOP seeks to crawl up and get into every womb like a marsupial climbs into a pouch.
Kangaroo’s alright!
Max-1 – old buddy, you are stating the proposition incorrectly. The GOP is trying to stay the hell (along with everyone else) out of everyone’s womb.
KCF
I’ll answer you ridiculous question, with an equally ridiculous question:
“The questions remains, are you in favor of the sale of baby parts or not?”
= = =
If the cost associated in storage and delivery saves your life, should I fight it when one political party spins that storage and shipping as “profits through selling”?