Like many Muslim countries, Turkey has a long and troubling history of child brides and arranged marriages. Some Islamic clerics have maintained that there can be no age limitation on child brides. They often note that Muhammad married Aisha when she was seven and consummated the marriage at nine years old.Just as Pakistan recently struck down its protection for girls from such abuse, the Turkish Constitutional Court annulled a provision that punishes all sexual acts against children under the age of 15 as “sexual abuse.” It is a major set back for girls and women in Turkey and another example of how the Islamic fundamentalists have taken over this once secular country under the authoritarian rule of our ally Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
A lower court insisted that the law is flawed for failing to distinguish between a four-year-old and a fourteen-year-old girl. Most people would find that distinction hard to stomach, but we have seen child brides as young as six in Muslim countries. The lower court also insisted that “consent” must be considered as a defense for girls between the ages of 12 and 15.
Recently, the same members annulled a provision that imposed at least 16 years of imprisonment in cases of child rape for the same reasons.
The vote was a close one: 7-6. However, with Erdoğan taking over every aspect of Turkish government and life, it is doubtful that the courts will remain divided in the future. Erdoğan has demanded that courts, journalists, teachers and every other profession adhere to his views at the risk of arrest.
International conventions treat 18 are the age of majority. International groups have condemned the decision as reinforcing the practice of child brides and the six dissenting members have called the ruling a cause for “public indignation.”
In the meantime, the Erdoğan regime has continued its demands that other countries shutdown media critical of the president or Turkey. It has officially protested stories in Western media on the stripping away of these laws protecting young girls. Erdoğan has been empowered in his efforts to silence the media after Angela Merkel caved into his demands that a comedian be charged for insulting him. Erdoğan has also been encouraged by the Obama Administration’s continued support even as he has rounded up critics, shut down media, and impose Islamic rules on the population.
@tina
re: “Despite mental, no-fun, fundamentalists of all sects. Not least, supposed ‘Christian’ Prison $tate-for-profit U$A jailing far more kids than any other modern state.”
Spot on. And HRC is all about taking monies from the Prison Industrial Complex — you know – gotta lock them predators up!!
Art Deco: Can you name a university in the US that offers an economic major or even a minor or some sort of concentrated study in Marxian economics?
There is no such thing as ‘Marxian economics’. There is Marxian social theory (and committed Marxists reject disciplinary boundaries in social research). And yes, you can find it in the sociology department. The few geography departments there are at American universities commonly squander a position on someone who produces no research on human settlements and resource use but does produce Marxist theorrhea. Marxism is an academic tendency in this country, and is vastly over-represented in faculties. Conservative and libertarian ideas are equally under-represented. Neither phenomenon has much to do with the law.
There’s a reason for this, and it isn’t because his ideas lacked validity.
Yes, his ideas lacked validity, and could not maintain the loyalty of people whose salaries depended upon them.
@art deco
Really? You label Germans as “euro trash” for enacting sensible solutions (access to birth control) to prevent out of wedlock births? I bet you celebrated mightily when Congress renamed French fries to Freedom fries. You are a f^&cking idiot – you can obviously type but must be the first one in your family to walk upright unaided?
Yep, we have a healthy birthrate in the U.S. all right – lots of people breeding and producing kids that they won’t or can’t take care of.
Paul:
“Karen – it didn’t seem to cause any harm since the very young wife was a major mover and shaker in the religion after the Prophet’s death.”
Women have been forced into arranged marriages as children, raped, and caught in sexual slavery for thousands of years. The fact that some managed to survive and make a mark upon their savage world does not indicate that no harm was done. It is a testament to the strength of the human spirit.
Speaking of strength in adversity, I hear that some of the Boko Haram child sex slaves are still alive, and they have children by their rapists. It’s been years in which they have been enslaved and raped by their radical Islamic captors. Are they forgotten? Can we not recover them? I think about those poor girls often, and pray we get them back. It seems like all we’re going to do is perpetuate stupid hash tags.
Karen – I could have sworn that Obama swore on his daughter’s life that he would get all those girls back.
Are Oliver Stone and Sean Penn going to visit again soon?
Socialism has worked marvelously in Venezuela.
Art Deco writes, “Yes, his ideas lacked validity, and could not maintain the loyalty of people whose salaries depended upon them.”
Which ideas were those, if you know?
Art Deco writes, “Who is being ‘exploited’? Can you even define that? What’s not ‘working’? When you say something is not working, you have an implicit end in mind. We’ve had secular improvements in general living standards in the occidental world since the late 17th century.”
Who is being exploited in capitalism? Why do you think we have an immigration problem and banana republics in which resources have been extracted by blood against the will of their citizens, trade agreements sending production to third world countries at the expense of the middle class, production requiring labor to produce more than what they consume for the benefit of those who produce nothing and earn hundreds of times more than labor per hour? You tell me.
What’s not working? Capitalism creates more wealth disparity than intended. Capitalism was intended to decrease wealth disparity. It doesn’t work.
Secular improvements in general living standards in the West? Since this country began, we’ve been exploiting every known corner of the earth in terms of empire and so has every other country in the West. It’s so nice of you to leave the remainder of the world’s population off your list of improvements in general living standards. What’s more, you PRESUME no other economic system could have worked better, so any criticism of capitalism makes no sense to you.
Of course, it’s not all your fault. Apparently, no US university actually teaches anything other than some form of capitalism.
Karen writes, “steve g:
“you, George, Louis XV!, and his queen, Marie Antoinette, all need an indelible lesson in liberté, égalité, and fraternity,”
It sounds like you are saying that unless we all agree to live a nihilistic, pointless Socialist existence, in which we are all equally poor and we are all completely helpless to improve our circumstances no matter what we do, except of course for the ubiquitous ruling government class that gets filthy rich off of these constructs, then we deserve to be guillotined. . . . That’s a bit fascist. . . . You should recall that the French Revolution murdered thousands of children, for no other reason than that they were born to rich aristocratic families. . . . Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty, bar none, than any other economic model.”
As for the typical American fallback position when criticizing capitalism, we’re just socialists. You’re brainwashed, Karen.
Take a look at the definition of fascism by its creator, Mussolini – it’s the corporate state. Your interpretation is arse backwards.
Bloody revolution was obviously the result of driving the pauper to the point of total apathy. That came about because people were afraid of sticking their necks out, and challenging injustice. Revolution does not have to be violent, but it takes people who are ready to open the minds to change. The current best example of this is anyone who would actually vote for either of these two clowns in the Establishment Parties.
Your last sentence is interesting, too, and even were it true, your framing of it is disingenuous. Why? Are there not more people who have been left behind by capitalism than capitalism has raised out of poverty over the past two centuries? Have you forgotten about them?
I wonder what the ratio of wealthy to impoverished was during the French Revolution? Like the kings and their families, 62 people now have as much wealth as half the population of the world Does this fact not strike you as repulsive in a world we aspire to live in? That’s a ratio of 62/3,500,000,000. You’re a smart person, Karen. Do you really condone that kind of disparity, and, if not, what are YOU doing about it? If so, then one of us has a problem, and I don’t think it’s me.
I’ll bet the divorce rate in Turkey is extremely low.
Muslim countries tend to have high divorce rates. An anthropologist who specialized in Malaysia told me about 18 years ago that about 2/3 of 1st marriages among Malays end in divorce.
A government that promotes capitalism and condemns any other theory of economic development as de facto illegal and punishable by violence becomes destructive of these ends.
Really? Where do you fancy those imprisoned for Marxist babble are being held?
Art Deco writes, “A government that promotes capitalism and condemns any other theory of economic development as de facto illegal and punishable by violence becomes destructive of these ends.”
Really? Where do you fancy those imprisoned for Marxist babble are being held?
Art Deco: Can you name a university in the US that offers an economic major or even a minor or some sort of concentrated study in Marxian economics? That happens only here and in more authoritarian third world countries. Not so in western Europe, by the way. There’s a reason for this, and it isn’t because his ideas lacked validity. Thank your local oligarch and the goons in Congress, the MIC, and the media they feed, for the deception which seems to provide your bias.
I’ll bet the divorce rate in Turkey is extremely low.
Ralph,
Glad you fixed that. Very true!
To the men and women who think adults having sex with children isn’t a problem (at least not for the adult) I hope none of you have acted on this belief. Damaging a child’s body, mind and spirit is reprehensible.
The end of the 18th Century ushered in republican capitalism to replace feudalism’s monarchy and nobility.
The disaggregation of manufacturing (or handicrafts), finance, and distribution & sales was an innovation that pre-dated the French Revolution by a couple of centuries (at least in the Mediterranean.
The problem with capitalism is that it too never has derived its just powers from the consent of the governed. What we have is plutocratic oligarchy as a direct result of capitalism, which has failed to secure these rights not only for us but those across the globe.
Capitalism, like feudalism and slavery, is an exploitative system. Over two hundred years of it has shown it doesn’t work. We need a new system.
Who is being ‘exploited’? Can you even define that? What’s not ‘working’? When you say something is not working, you have an implicit end in mind. We’ve had secular improvements in general living standards in the occidental world since the late 17th century.
Your conception of who the problematic element in society is is also misconceived. Democratic instittuions are folded, spindled, and mutilated by the legal profession much more than they are by large industrial combines. Higher education is another nearly impregnable influence. If there’s any commercial or industrial sectors nowadays which are peculiarly influential, it would be tech and media and casino banking (all of which favor the portside party).
steve g:
“you, George, Louis XV!, and his queen, Marie Antoinette, all need an indelible lesson in liberté, égalité, and fraternity,”
It sounds like you are saying that unless we all agree to live a nihilistic, pointless Socialist existence, in which we are all equally poor and we are all completely helpless to improve our circumstances no matter what we do, except of course for the ubiquitous ruling government class that gets filthy rich off of these constructs, then we deserve to be guillotined.
That’s a bit fascist.
You should recall that the French Revolution murdered thousands of children, for no other reason than that they were born to rich aristocratic families.
Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty, bar none, than any other economic model.
Appalling.
Aside from all the obvious moral and ethical reasons against pedophilia, and the emotional and physical trauma, most little girls are not physically capable of giving birth and surviving with major medical intervention. Below a certain age, they can have all sorts of complications from birth, including a fistula, which can lead to becoming septic. They are too small and still developing. They are also not mature enough to be good mothers at 10 years old. The majority of girls don’t even begin puberty until 12, although this is coming sooner and sooner for a variety of reasons. Geez, this whole train of thought is giving me the overwhelming urge to go smack these idiot pedophiles on the Turkish court.
Little girls are far outmatched when pursued by an older, stronger male. They are not mature enough to understand the consequences of their decisions, and they can fall victim to grooming by predators. They cannot fend for themselves. The “consent” of a little girl is meaningless, as it can be obtained from intimidation, fear, pressure, or any other means. I personally knew a girl forced into an arranged marriage as soon as she graduated high school. She was afraid to say no because she would be disowned and shunned. So she went through with it. How meaningful was her “consent”? And she was close to 18.
This oft repeated historical reference to Mohammad consummating one of his polygamous marriages to a 9 year old girl has always been disturbing. Wouldn’t Allah have casually mentioned in passing to his Prophet that such an act could, oh I don’t know, cause irreparable mental and physical harm?
Karen – it didn’t seem to cause any harm since the very young wife was a major mover and shaker in the religion after the Prophet’s death.
The Ottoman Empire got their slaves from the Vikings, the Irish, the English and themselves.
The Ottoman Empire is located in the eastern Mediterranean and post-dated the heyday of Viking raids by three centuries, so, no.
Art Deco – the Vikings were selling to the Moors in Spain. You are right about the Ottoman Empire. My bad.
Professor Turley says: “Erdoğan has also been encouraged by the Obama Administration’s continued support even as he has rounded up critics, shut down media, and impose [sic] Islamic rules on the population.”
This isn’t quite right. As a public service, I offer the following correction to accurately reflect the facts and circumstances:
Erdoğan has also been encouraged by the Obama Administration’s continued support BECAUSE as he has rounded up critics, shut down media, and imposed Islamic rules on the population. [Emphasis added.]
Now the statement is accurate. Thanks all, and have a good day.
Just about everything is fundamentally economic.
You’re confusing your social prejudices with actual history and sociology. That’s your problem and no one can cure you of it.
People keep referencing the past to justify the present. The big question is just how many of these wizards are there? I guess we will find out in November.
Art Deco
Just about everything is fundamentally economic. The American Revolution certainly was. The vehicle was democracy etc, etc, but the substance was economic and cutting out Great Britain from what to those who saw it, was an economic moment in history.
issac – if you read the Declaration of Independence it is more than economics. They wanted the same rights British citizens had. They were not getting them. Even some members of Parliament were on their side. It was really being able to have a say in your own destiny.
Issac:
Liberty, equality and brotherhood were as important in the American Revolution as they were in the French Revolution:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
The end of the 18th Century ushered in republican capitalism to replace feudalism’s monarchy and nobility.
The problem with capitalism is that it too never has derived its just powers from the consent of the governed. What we have is plutocratic oligarchy as a direct result of capitalism, which has failed to secure these rights not only for us but those across the globe.
Capitalism, like feudalism and slavery, is an exploitative system. Over two hundred years of it has shown it doesn’t work. We need a new system.
Olly: if you aren’t fixated on criticizing capitalism, you need to dig deeper. And regarding redistribution of wealth, you ASSUME – like any unwitting member of the working class – that this is what I favor, though I’ve never said or written that. We need a prospective system which creates economic freedom for everyone and not just those the wealthy decide to free and which doesn’t create classes of people. I couldn’t give an iota what the wealthy do with their current assets. What I care about is that everyone have a similar quality of life, and for most of us, that’s a step up, not down like it would be for the current ruling class. If you have a problem with those who criticize capitalism, I suggest you take a look at those who criticized slavery and their place in history. As I mentioned, capitalism is just another exploitative economic system, and as a person of principle and integrity I would think you would want to look at alternatives rather than take for granted what those with an agenda tell you is best for you, your family, and this country.
A government that promotes capitalism and condemns any other theory of economic development as de facto illegal and punishable by violence becomes destructive of these ends. Hence, it is “the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
Art Deco, Art Deco, etc. Artsyfartsee.