Rivaling Accounts of Scott Shooting Emerge In Charlotte

imagesWhile riots and looting continued in Charlotte over the shooting of 43-year-old Keith Lamont Scott, the Charlotte police are pushing back on the widely repeated report that Scoot was unarmed and shot walking away from police without any provocation.  Police say that Scott was armed and refused to drop his weapon.

The statement followed the wide distribution of a live streamed video below from Scott’s daughter on Facebook accusing the police of shooting and unarmed and disabled man. (Warning Profanity):

 

Police say that officers and witnesses confirm that Scott was armed and was asked repeatedly to drop his handgun.  Police Chief Kerr Putney said that officers saw Scott exit a vehicle with a handgun at an apartment complex: “The officers gave loud, clear verbal commands which were also heard by many of the witnesses. They were instructing the subject, once he got out of the vehicle, to drop the weapon… Mr. Scott exited his vehicle armed with a handgun as the officers continued to yell at him to drop it.”

Putney said Officer Brentley Vinson, who is also African American, shot Scott due to his refusal to drop the weapon to protect herself and others.  However, Putney did not say that the gun was pointed at officers at the time.

Under Tennessee v. Garner, “deadly force…may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others.” Thus, the Supreme Court rejected the prior fleeing felon rule when the felon did not pose an immediate threat to society. Under Graham v. Connor, this is determined according to an “objective reasonableness” standard but a calculus that considers the split second decision-making in such circumstances.  If Scott was armed and refused to drop the weapon, most courts show great deference to the police officers in acting to protect themselves or the public.

Scott had a record, including a conviction in 2004 for misdemeanor assault with a deadly weapon charge. The record shows dismissed charges of felony assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, and misdemeanors assault on a child under 12, assault on a female and communicating threats.  None of that means that his shooting was lawful or warranted.  There does appear to be dash cam evidence that may resolve the sharp discrepancies in the case.

As in so many past cases, we are left with starkly different accounts.  Someone is obviously lying or grossly misinformed.  One account has police gunning down an unarmed man waiting for his school children while another has a man steadfastly refusing to comply with orders while brandishing a gun.  The rioting and looting in Charlotte will not do anything to establish the true of either account.  What is needed is a thorough investigation with the maximum degree of transparency.

 

167 thoughts on “Rivaling Accounts of Scott Shooting Emerge In Charlotte”

  1. Right about now there are two campaigns and two political parties crafting a strategy to take advantage of these events. The one that furthers the divide by pandering to the social justice contingent is the one who should never be this country’s President.

  2. Paul, I was in Putney, VT last week. It is a small, rural town that has a very liberal history. I must have seen 50 BLM lawn signs. I doubt any black people live there. Certainly didn’t see any black folk in the 2 days I was there.

    1. I doubt any black people live there.

      Of course, not. Blacks are abstractions to them. They’re self-concept is derived in part from distinguishing themselves from badwhites, hence silly virtue-signalling displays in small town Vermont. Not sure what the shares are now. As recently as 1980, there were about 1,200 blacks in Vermont. Blacks who are at home living in an environment which is 99.8% white are not given to generating social friction.

      In the world in which we live, 2/3 of all blacks live in concentrated settlement in slum neighborhoods (or shabby neighborhoods adjacent to the slums). These neighborhoods are not typically monoracial (though some sections are). Except in New York City, they are usually desperately in need of well-staffed police forces who are vigorous and proactive. They seldom get that, and school officials seldom bother with vigorous enforcement of rules and sequestration of troublesome youths. There are some secondary problems, such as the effect of property taxes on the built environment in poor neighborhoods. The BLM bitch is sociological nonsense and anything but a sharp retort to it is not in the public interest, anywhere or anytime.

  3. I am certainly not a leftoid, but I think analysis from all perspectives is a good thing. I would also add that there seems to be quite a range of professionalism among law enforcement. Better training would definitely help a lot of situations, and stop a lot of opportunities that can be leveraged by media that preys on the self-perceived victims.
    That is not necessarily the case in this situation. Like Darren said, it needs to be analyzed appropriately before conclusions can be drawn. It seems apparent (given the situation, why carry and make things worse for yourself, unless you have a pre-existing motive… and it just goes downhill from there), but it should still go through the process. Also, just to make a better argument, wouldn’t it be better for a group to assemble and go down in the AM to do peaceful gathering at the courthouse? If there is an argument to be made, the offending group shouldn’t immediately sink to an apparent self-fulfilling prophecy.

    1. Sorry here’s the analysis: LBJ set forth opportunity for minority groups at the expense of many talented white men and woman, for whatever reason those in the minority group have not taken advantage. They have continued along the lines depriving themselves of a better life. Just as they march through the street late at night burning and looting business they can take that same energy and apply to looking for work. If you will excuse the pun it’s a black Friday shopping opportunity. Instead today they will sleep late, wake, sit on the porch drinking from a brown paper bag. Hillary will come to the community try and talk in her ghetto french accent and tell them only the demoncrats can help you. The demoncrats are smart they throw down a rope and when the minority group start climbing they lower it back to where it was, just enough to keep them right where they want them and in need of the demoncrats. As I said get out there do a ride along on a midnight tour, while your wife and kids are at home hoping that dad will walk in the door in morning. Spend Christmas eve and New Years eve going into the homes I’ve described with the mother drunk on her ass and the baby crawling about smeared in shit. I ask you, who needs the training the police or the ones burning and looting who give two shits about who was shot?

      1. You’re free associating here. AA has damaged higher education, the legal profession, and civil service recruitment and promotion, but it’s not that important otherwise. Employment discrimination law generally is a problem, of course.

        1. Teaching Spastics to Dance – AA has affected education at all levels, not just higher education. Johnny cannot read because Juan cannot speak English.

  4. I would seriously like to know the breakdown of B/M’s involved in shootings w/ police that were raised sans a father in the home. I taught, coached, and supervised black youth. Many that were raised w/o a male in the home had a huge chip on their shoulder. And, while my being white contributed, B/M teachers, probation officers would tell me, and I observed, often it was TOUGHER for them. They represented the father that abandoned them. When you whittle away all the pretexts, 74% of black children being born out of wedlock has a horrible effect on children, particularly boys. The late, great, Daniel Patrick Moynihan issued the warning, based on studies, over 50 years ago, regarding the breakdown of the family in black inner city due to out of wedlock births. He was labelled, “RACIST.”

    1. This has come up several times before. It is most likely THE problem. The real situation is, your argument is the case, then the corporate media loses its power. We have seen the like of the people who profit from these situations for a couple of generations now. Anyone who offers a positive message based on self-reliance and motivation is immediately marginalized. A lot of competing factors need to be fixed, and it gets to be a less realistic goal every day.

    2. Nick…Moynihan was a class act through and through.
      He was (correctly) concerned about the sharp rise in out -of -wedlock births in Black America, and villified for The Moynahan Report he released about 1965.
      In the 1980s, I missed an opportunity to attend a lecture by Monihan at Whitman College….my work schedule prevented me from attending.
      Caught a speech by Julian Bond at the same college in the 1970s.
      The biggest crowd I ever saw for a political speaker at Whitman was for William F. Buckley Jr., in 1980.
      We were packed in like sardines.

  5. Very interesting how some of you who are obvious leftoids point the finger at the police. I would love to have a few of you ride a midnight tour with one of these PD’s. You would probably shit your pants before the night was done. I imagine when you got home you take multiple showers after entering the homes of these people. After seeing the filthy rooms, dirty dishes piled in the sink, dog shit on the floor, babies in dirty diapers, roaches running all over, this living out of choice. The very same house I was born and raised in by LEGAL immigrants from Italy who had very little, no welfare and blamed no one for our lot. We had one thing dignity and a family who respected the rule of law, a father and mother who loved and stayed with their children. You leftoids are the cause of the lose of all that was good and decent in this country and will bring it completely down.

  6. Keith Scott of NC was a felon who had an arrest warrant & was packing a gun meets black cop with itchy trigger fingers.

    Scott was convicted in April 2004 of a misdemeanor assault with a deadly weapon charge in Mecklenburg County. Other charges stemming from that date were dismissed: felony assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, and misdemeanors assault on a child under 12, assault on a female and communicating threats.

    Terence Crutcher of Tulsa, Okla. high on PCP meets white female cop with itchy trigger fingers.

    Crutcher had been arrested in the past. In 1995 in nearby Osage County, officers said they saw him fire a weapon out a vehicle window. Records show Crutcher was ordered to exit the vehicle for a pat-down search and began making a movement to his right ankle before an officer managed to get control of him. A .25-caliber pistol was found in his right sock, according to an affidavit.

    1. Jerry, how do you know that Terence Crutcher was “high on PCP”? Did you sell it to him? Did you see him take it?

  7. Maybe so. People’s perceptions are influenced by where they live, when they live(d), and what they observed in their community.
    These influences are in addition to the influence of observing events on the “macro”, national scene.
    With respect to leadership/ advocates for Black Americans, I think we’re in a world of hurt.

  8. The mainstream civil rights movement was losing momentum even before the 1968 MLK assassination.
    One of the objectives of that movement was to improve race relations.
    There were major riots in over 100 cities in the mid-to- late 1960s.
    Nixon’s margin of victory over Humphrey was razor-thin. One factor in his victory was his claim that he was the “law and order” candidate.
    I don’t think that race relations have improved over the past 50 years.
    Once the mainstream civil rights movement was marginalized by Black segregationist, Black supremicists, Black militants, etc., previous efforts to actually improve race relations were stalled, or reversed.
    Improving race relations was not a goal of the groups and movements that became more dominant by the late 1960s.
    I think it would be very difficult to name any of the current Black leaders of movements that compare favorably with MLK, Roy Wilkins, James Farmer, etc.
    We currently see Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakan, etc. as high- profile, influential figures.
    I wouldn’t put Jesse Jackson in the Sharpton-Farrakan category, but I don’t think he measures up favorably to the civil rights icons of the 1950s and 1960s.
    I don’t know if we’re heading for the same level violence/ rioting we saw c. 50 years ago, but I don’t see any leaders who come close to filling the shoes of MLK, Farmer, Wilkins, etc.
    So I’m not optimistic that the U.S. will see improved race relation on the foreseeable future. Every event, like the one unfolding in the streets of Charlotte, reinforces that pessimism.

    1. Race relations have improved on the mundane level. In the civic and political realm, they’re not worse. What’s distressing is that the public culture is insensitive to actual circumstances, and ever more divorced from facts on the ground. The reasons for that have to do with the power games and emotional adjustments of various bad actors.

  9. It’s unlikely there will be a trustworthy, transparent investigation.

    The Blue Wall of Silence remains.

    1. No, there will be a trustworthy investigation with a credible report at the end. The truth will not be accepted, because black nationalists and liberals trade in lies.

  10. Cop says drop your weapon, you do it. End of story. I get pulled over for speeding, I let the cop run the show.

  11. The last 2 police shootings that have resulted in rioting and looting[Milwaukee and Charlotte] involved black cops and armed suspects. To any objective observer it would seem some are out of control and it ain’t the police.

  12. Why is there not a police video of the event? As we know, that is not totally conclusive, but it would help.
    Law enforcement has a major PR problem. Maybe most of them should have thought twice by allowing the military-industrial complex to increase profits by selling that stuff to law enforcement. And from what I see, there also seems to be a lot of PEDs in law enforcement now as well. I recently passed an overly pumped up (local, not state) policeman in a convenience store recently who reeked of aggression, and was very rude. Doesn’t sound like much, but 20 years ago I might not have let that pass without incident. It could’ve gotten out of hand quickly. I am supportive of law enforcement, but there are issues that need to be addressed. And this is not an excuse for rioting.

      1. Thanks for the update. I was wondering why I hadn’t heard anything about that. Next question, why was there rioting when no verified details were available? (Silly question I know… our budding WWIII is developing in the same way…)

    1. Law enforcement has a major PR problem. Maybe most of them should have thought twice by allowing the military-industrial complex to increase profits by selling that stuff to law enforcement.

      This statement is a lunatic non sequitur.

      1. Why is that? I believe there is a case to be made that police departments are becoming overly militarized. It’s law enforcement, not war against citizenry (at least not quite yet).

        1. Why is that? The dispute under discussion concerns a civilian shot by a police officer with a handgun. Whether the police force did or did not buy military equipment is irrelevant.

          Jill’s a hater. She knows little, but hates much. The ‘military-industrial complex’ was a phrase invented by Dwight Eisenhower and his aides in 1961 to describe a fairly novel phenomenon (from the perspective of a man who had spent his adult life to age 50 in the small inter-war military). In the intervening years, the military has grown proportionately a great deal smaller in terms of the share of domestic product it accounts for and the share of the labor force. The postwar peak was around 1953, after which there was an almost continuous decline in such proportions to 1978. There was a modest increase to about 1985, then a continuous decline to 2001, then an increase for several years (to 2007, IIRC), then the beginnings of a decline again. The manpower share is as low as it has been since 1940 and the production share near (but not at) the post-1940 nadir. As we speak, the ratio of military expenditure to domestic product is about 4%.

          The ‘military-industrial complex’ does nothing. It was a term to describe a set of interacting agents. Industries sell equipment to the military. Unless Jill fancies the military should manufacture everything in house in its own factories, the military cannot get along without purchasing equipment and the companies which produce goods cannot get along without compensating their stakeholders (which includes the dreaded ‘profits’). You understand this, and I understand this, but Jill’s mind is fundamentally a childish one, so adults engaging in specialized activity and exchanging goods and services in product markets and factor markets is something she doesn’t get.

          As for whether or not police are too ‘militarized’, do you honestly think Jill knows anything about police work? Has she ever quoted a data source that was not some variant of the Rachel Maddow Show or Pacifica radio?

          1. An addendum. When Eisenhower was speaking, the ratio of military expenditure to domestic product was 0.10, conscription was in effect, and north of 2.5% of the workforce was in the active-duty military. We do not live in that world anymore.

  13. Maybe Paul has a point, but his poor analogy using the French queen creates uncertainty as to his underlying reasoning.

    The French Revolution is an extremely complicated affair. Ascribing events occurring after I the unsuccessful attempt of the ruling family to flee France to a gulf between the aristocracy and peasantry? High school history class piffle.

    1. My point being you ignore the underlying problem at your peril. I’m sure as Marie stared into that basket she was wondering what the f went wrong.

      I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, perception is reality. If you don’t believe there is a racial profiling, so be it. My guess is a lot of people disagree with that assessment. Thus the rioting in the streets.

      1. We profile all the time. It is how we keep alive. I was watching a Rizzoli & Isles program where the real estate agent gave her card to Isles (who has a lot of money) and not to Rizzoli (who lives on a detective’s salary). She profiled them by the clothes. There is nothing wrong with profiling.

        1. Paul C. Schulte
          – While officers are allowed some leeway in “profiling”, I don’t agree with your statement that “There’s nothing wrong with profiling”.
          If, for example, a driver is found to be an illegal alien in the course of a normal traffic stop, I don’t see anything wrong with detaining that driver for being in the U.S. illegally.
          If officers are on a” general fishing expedition”; i.e., they are conducting large numbers of pretext traffic stops for the primary purpose of an “illegal alien roundout”, and woulsld not have otherwise stopped the driver for a trivial or non-existant “traffic offense”……that’s a different matter.
          If I understand the legal action against Sheriff Arpiao’s Phoenix -area roundup correctly, he was found to have encouraged these fishing expeditions.
          Obviously some illegals will be caught, and obviously he pissed off a lot of Mexican-American cirizens who got jerked around just for looking like “they might be” here illegally.
          When law enforced crosses a line and gets into widespread, sloppy profiling, then courts can intervene.
          If you want another example of absolutely stupid profiling, and where that can lead, take a look at the DARIEN ROSEEN incident in Idaho.

            1. tnash – the Ariz Repugnant hate Arpaio. And yet, despite their best efforts, he keeps getting re-elected.

          1. tnash – only some Mexicans were upset at Arpiao’s raids and stops. The Mexican-Americans, less LULAC and La Raza, were okay with it. The problem was Arpiao was really good at it. And then he went after employers. He basically shut down the largest car wash company in the Valley. He actually had deputies going undercover working for them. The owner is doing two years of fraud for misusing eVerify along with 12 of his managers. That is when it really his the fan. The Chamber of Commerce could not have him shuttering businesses, so they sicced the feds on him. After 2 years of investigation, we have a federal monitor for the sheriff’s office (no one is sure if it is legal since the sheriff is an elected office) and a federal judge has charged him with criminal contempt because he did a background check on the judge and his wife. That judge has recused himself from the trial since he already convicted him of civil contempt. However, Joe is up for re-election and is handily beating his opponent.

            1. Paul C. Schulte
              Most police agencies have spokesmen (or women) to interact with the media.
              And some agencies have more of a PR Dept., where self-promotion and the law enforcement function intermingle.
              So I’m not questioning Arpaio’s abiltity to win elections, or the willingness of voters/ taxpayers to subsidize his practices by paying for the lawsuits against him.

              1. tnash – Arpaio is extremely effective and has implemented many great programs in his jail program.

      2. If you don’t believe there is a racial profiling, so be it.

        Yes, police profile. You’re asking for massive inefficiencies in law enforcement if you expect police to direct their attention at random. For those of use who want to make optimal use of police manpower, police making use of their sociological knowledge and their street smarts is a good thing. For those who wish to strike attitudes, it is a bad thing.

        1. Paul C. Schulte
          Most police agencies have spokesmen (or women) to interact with the media.
          And some agencies have more of a PR Dept., where self-promotion and the law enforcement function intermingle.
          So I’m not questioning Arpaio’s abiltity to win elections, or the willingness of voters/ taxpayers to subsidize his practices by paying for the lawsuits against him.

        2. Teaching Spastics-
          I don’t think it’s a matter of completely banning any type of profiling.
          I view it as a necessity to impose some reasonable restrictions on that practice.
          In the absence of some constraints, I guarrantee you that some agencies in some jurisdictions will go way overboard on their fishing expeditions, and ultimately ending up doing more harm than got.
          That downside of profiling has to be recognized. An assumption that all agencies will use common sense in profiling is not realistic.
          I’ve cited DARIEN ROSEEN/ IDAHO as one example of profiling run amuck, as well as the harassment of Hispanic-American motorists in Maricopa County.

          1. tnash – we also harass drunken drivers in Maricopa County. We seal off roads that are known to have high incidence of drunk drivers and stop everyone. This is how they caught a drunk Charles Barkley getting a BJ while he was driving. Now that was funny. 🙂

            1. Paul Schulte-
              I remember when Charles Barkley “explained” what he was looking for in Scottsdale.
              On the DUI checkpoints, I know that the Phoenix area, and some other jurisdictions, use them.
              I’m familiar with checkpoints (Hoover Dam, Border Patrol, AG/ Produce checkpoints, military facilities, etc.)
              I don’t mind the checkpoints. The minimal, orderly delay-maybe it “costs” a few minutes of time on the road- isn’t a big deal.
              ALL vehicles have to stop at these checpoints. They don’t stop only Black drivers out-of-state drivers, Hispanic drivers, etc.)
              If those checkpoints engaged in that kind of profiling, I think that would be a real problem.
              Another reason I don’t really mind checkpoints is the “safety/ traffic disruption” advantage they generally have over fishing expedtions.
              There are obvious risks involved when an officer tears out at 100+ miles per hour on a whim ( “maybe I’ll find something if I do enough of these stops”.
              There’s the additional reisk involved to all concerned in standing on the shouler of a busy freeway or street while the fishing expedition plays out.
              I have some first hand experience with this related to my Darien Roseen/ Welcome to Idaho stops.
              My preference is not to stand in between vehicles on the should of a busy 75 MPH freeway.
              That doesn’t do a lot for the officers’ safety, for mine, or the safety of passing motorisrs.
              So, all thinks considered, I favor the checkpoints over stops based on a profiling “whim”, or hunch.

              1. tnash – all of Arpaio’s stops required at least some mechanical malfunction for the stop.

  14. So “maximum transparency” is obviously a one-way street. Leftoids can heavy any and every untruthful aspersion on police in every successive shooting, and thereby encourage the violence and property damage, and then never have to answer for their habitual confabulating. It is widespread madness! The discourse environment which instantly arises after one of these shootings is one of repression and misinformation; overall intimidation. Elected officials jump onto the outrage bandwagon and immediately throw innocent police officers under the bus. It is nothing short of mob violence. Also, it has the effect of eliminating any scrutiny or widespread understanding of the dead person’s motivations for inviting the cops to kill them. The outrage mob could be disguising an epidemic of suicide-by-cop.

    1. George McGovern is dead and Nat Hentoff is real old. Leftoids with integrity are a vanishing breed.

        1. There’s Harold Pollack, Glenn Loury, and (arguably) Mark Kleiman. Rank and file Democratic voters are not bad. About 3/4 of them pay little attention to public affairs and vote Democratic as an identity affirmation or out of sentiment.

  15. Sadly after years of the Police getting away with stretching and sometimes making up new truth, there is little to no trust between the police and many members of a community. This has been a condition long in the making, it will take a long time to undo the damage that years of police protection has created. This is the danger that all societies have faced. Marie Antoinette lost her head over an inability realize the vast gulf that had opened between the ruling class and the peasants. Many a dictator though history has befallen the same fate. Unfortunately the police are in that same position today. After years of the police union defending unrcontionable behavior, we now have a population that does not accept the “truth” as told by the authorities.

    Wake up, as Professor Turley says, Maximum transparency is needed, not just for this case, but for every case that comes up.

    1. Sadly after years of the Police getting away with stretching and sometimes making up new truth,

      There is no evidence that police are systemically dishonest. Criminals are. Liberals are.

      1. Thank you Frank, I maintain the vast majority of cops are good. It only takes one cover up to cause distrust. I am pretty sure there has been more than a few cover ups in…oh say the last 50-100 years. It adds up.

      2. TSP That is truly funny. I guess you never heard of Serpico where the officers of the NYPD put out a contract on his life and he had to flee to Switzerland. Then in my city of Houston, we have many cases of cops lying about shootings and actions which resulted in the deaths of suspects. There is the Randall Webster case where the cops used a throw down weapon to justify their killing the crook while handcuffed. Then Jose Torres who drowned while handcuffed after the cops threw him in a bayou. There are FAR too many other cases in Houston alone for me to list.

  16. What always amazes me is when the media fails to mention that North Carolina like Ohio, is an open carry State. So just the fact that the decedent Kevin Scott had a gun should not a factor. As we have seen in Ohio’s three (3) fatal shootings by Police of Black men and a child. It is an open carry State and merely having a weapon should have gotten them killed: Walmart; Black father shopping picks up a toy gun, Police open fire killing the man even though Walmart sells real guns/rifles. Black child in park still Ohio still open carry is killed within 2 seconds of Police arrival, it was a play gun but again its open carry Where is the talk we see when White person is confront; rarely to actually see what the person might have to say about himself and the weapon. So the Law is actually saying to Police Officers and other Law Enforcement, We have an open carry of firearms but only for White people of this State. In closing whatever Scott was doing and if he had a firearm (care taken to say not pointed at Police by Police) why is He dead?

    1. Sorry for the errors phrase; a gun should not BE a factor phrase: weapon should NOT have phrase: when a White person is CONFRONTED
      I thought I could still correct after posting

    2. I doubt the law on open carry allows you to point a gun at law enforcement (or, really, anyone else) absent provocations.

  17. This is the reason, in cases that are not immediately obvious and straight forward, to wait until the investigation is completed before rushing to judgments.

    1. So, I take it that you oppose the current practice of jumping to conclusions for fun and profit.

    2. Absolutely.

      The thing is, actual facts are irrelevant to the judgments of people complaining. They conceive of the world as consisting of the anointed and the benighted. This is just another occasion to hate on the benighted. The categorization of the parties is what matters, not anything they did do or did not do. It’s all aggression and status games. The social stratum and subcultural affiliations of the haters does regulate the qualities of the response some, but that’s all.

      1. Unfortunately, “the anointed and the benighted,” time and time again, leave little for the “people complaining” to trust. Your comment is sohistic, colored in the fiction of urbane elitist propriety when nearly the entire world isn’t. Perhaps we should indeed wait to see the results of a “thorough investigation and the maximum degree of transparency.”

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