While riots and looting continued in Charlotte over the shooting of 43-year-old Keith Lamont Scott, the Charlotte police are pushing back on the widely repeated report that Scoot was unarmed and shot walking away from police without any provocation. Police say that Scott was armed and refused to drop his weapon.
The statement followed the wide distribution of a live streamed video below from Scott’s daughter on Facebook accusing the police of shooting and unarmed and disabled man. (Warning Profanity):
Police say that officers and witnesses confirm that Scott was armed and was asked repeatedly to drop his handgun. Police Chief Kerr Putney said that officers saw Scott exit a vehicle with a handgun at an apartment complex: “The officers gave loud, clear verbal commands which were also heard by many of the witnesses. They were instructing the subject, once he got out of the vehicle, to drop the weapon… Mr. Scott exited his vehicle armed with a handgun as the officers continued to yell at him to drop it.”
Putney said Officer Brentley Vinson, who is also African American, shot Scott due to his refusal to drop the weapon to protect herself and others. However, Putney did not say that the gun was pointed at officers at the time.
Under Tennessee v. Garner, “deadly force…may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others.” Thus, the Supreme Court rejected the prior fleeing felon rule when the felon did not pose an immediate threat to society. Under Graham v. Connor, this is determined according to an “objective reasonableness” standard but a calculus that considers the split second decision-making in such circumstances. If Scott was armed and refused to drop the weapon, most courts show great deference to the police officers in acting to protect themselves or the public.
Scott had a record, including a conviction in 2004 for misdemeanor assault with a deadly weapon charge. The record shows dismissed charges of felony assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, and misdemeanors assault on a child under 12, assault on a female and communicating threats. None of that means that his shooting was lawful or warranted. There does appear to be dash cam evidence that may resolve the sharp discrepancies in the case.
As in so many past cases, we are left with starkly different accounts. Someone is obviously lying or grossly misinformed. One account has police gunning down an unarmed man waiting for his school children while another has a man steadfastly refusing to comply with orders while brandishing a gun. The rioting and looting in Charlotte will not do anything to establish the true of either account. What is needed is a thorough investigation with the maximum degree of transparency.
Jill,
It’s appears that these folks are now taking their anger into the burbs, if one day they reach your home and hope they don’t go out and show them your facts. Let me know how that works out for you.
Have a good night Jill.
Wendel,
You bet police work can be scary. There’s a way to reduce killings of cops and other citizens. I linked to it above. It involves restraint, thinking and acting with integrity.
No one is claiming police work is easy or that any person could do it. We are saying that those who choose this profession should honor their oath to protect and serve our citizens. That requires courage and it requires being smart, even in really difficult situations. I believe police officers are capable of being this way and the study I linked to above, proves it.
We should all want to save lives, black, white, native American, police-it doesn’t matter. Up armouring to the teeth and moving immediately to lethal force is not the way to save lives.
Facts have to trump ideology. This is one of those times. This program works.
@ slohrrs29
All due respect to your trooper friend but for the most part troopers don’t do patrol in the inner city and have very little training dealing with city, town or county residents. They don’t go into homes on domestic disputes, man with a gun or any other one on one in the community. Not in the state I worked. He made need the training but I can assure these men and woman are well trained.
Here’s the rub your stopped by a cop, he says stay where are, you stay. He says put your hands on the vehicle you put your hands on the vehicle. He says license and registration you give him those documents. It’s easy, things never, never escalate without provocation, never! You have a problem with a cop take his name and badge make a visit to the Chief or Prosecutor produce your evidence, no need for confrontation on the street. I’ve made a ton of stops and it’s always the one’s who have something that they don’t want the police to see give you the trouble, always.
Again I say to all of you, take a week and ride a midnight tour, you will fast change your mind.
PS: Happy to see you Squeeky, still love that photo:)
“Not surprisingly, their latest research showed that police departments that implement stricter use of force regulations kill significantly fewer people…Police departments that had implemented each use of force policy were less likely to kill people than police departments that had not, and the lowest rates of police killings were associated with those departments that had implemented four or more policies — only about a third of the country’s largest departments.
Better regulation of use of force is better for police, too, as the report also shows that the numbers of officers assaulted or killed in the line of duty decreased in proportion with the number of regulations adopted by their department.”
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/21/here-are-eight-policies-that-can-prevent-police-killings/
This is called win-win. It’s smart policing that saves everyone’s lives. Shouldn’t that matter?
Based on the charge, the officer didn’t intend to kill the victim. She obviously only meant to cause a minor injury that might make it harder for him to retaliate in case he might decide to do so. Taking action that would result in a fall to the ground by the thug is surely the extent of her intent. Right?
Bill, I think that’s unreasonable. There was malice there in the intent to do great bodily harm. The only time they’re allowed to fire is in self defense or in defense of others. Unless there’s evidence that she or others were in imminent fear of their lives, she wasn’t permitted to shoot him There’s no shoot-em-in-the-knee-cap-and-see-what-he-does-next engagement permitted. Homicide, malice (intent to do great bodily harm or super-recklessness) without premeditation, are the classic elements of second-degree murder.
The manslaughter charge means they’re mitigating murder by removing the malice, when in fact she intended to do him great bodily harm. That’s unreasonable, although it may make for an easier prosecution.
If they acquit her, though, we’ll see rioting the likes of which we’ve never seen before.
Steve Groen – juries tend to side with the police. I am not sure this will be any different. Depending on what her partner says, she could be golden.
Paul, you’re the 152 IQ around here, but I think the reason they charged this as manslaughter to come up with a light sentence for her clean record may be because they NEED to get a conviction on this one. It’s a thought anyway.
Steve Groen – I would agree that 10 years ago she would have gotten a commendation in her file for this, but now they don’t want the feds breathing on them. If Trump gets elected, they might run the clock and let her go.
One Cop down one to go…..
TULSA, Okla. — Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, charged a white female police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street with first-degree manslaughter Thursday.
Tulsa County District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charge less than a week after officer Betty Shelby shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher on Sept. 16. Kunzweiler said arrangements were being made for Shelby’s surrender.
Well, if I was on the jury, I would be very susceptible to a “reasonable fear” defense. As I suspect a Tulsa jury will be. It looks like the dude was on PCP, and like too many black people, he thought he could just do whatever he wanted to when the police told him to stop. I bet if I could read minds, I would “know” that his family is secretly glad to be rid of him, and would much rather have the money they will be receiving.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
And the reason that this department does not use body cams is?
This still may come down to a training issue as I understand the policeman who fired the shot was black. So, you have a black police department head, and a black cop who shoots a civilian. That throws out the racial element. I would expect there may be a lot more to this story than we are initially hearing, and I would be interested to hear Darren’s thoughtful analysis when all is said and done.
Wendell makes the obvious point above:
“Sadly they are looting and burning for the wrong reasons. They should be out there screaming about the fact that there are two forms of administering the law there’s the law for them, you and I, then there’s the law for the political aristocracy. I wonder if I have to go to court and defend myself and use the “Hillary Defense” I “can’t remember”, “can’t recall” and “if I had to do over again I would do it differently” will the prosecutor say there’s not enough evidence to convict?
When they hit the street for that, I think I’ll join them.”
A good friend is a long-time trooper and notes where this is room for improvement of police action, especially among sheriff’s departments. To be clear, this is not an excuse for criminal behavior.
And, as I said above, you won’t see much about the law officers killed in the line of duty because it isn’t a hot-button issue.
Mr. Spastic, I haven’t know Steve Groen to be particularly anti-anything, and Jill presents points in a well-written manner. I do not see the need to be insulting when a simple rebuttal with supporting argument is always seeked and appreciated. Surely you could have more fun being confrontational on other blogs.
@ slohrrs29
All due respect to your trooper friend but for the most part troopers don’t do patrol in the inner city and have very little training dealing with city, town or county residents. They don’t go into homes on domestic disputes, man with a gun or any other one on one in the community. Not in the state I worked. He made need the training but I can assure these men and woman are well trained.
Here’s the rub your stopped by a cop, he says stay where are, you stay. He says put your hands on the vehicle you put your hands on the vehicle. He says license and registration you give him those documents. It’s easy, things never, never escalate without provocation, never! You have a problem with a cop take his name and badge make a visit to the Chief or Prosecutor produce your evidence, no need for confrontation on the street. I’ve made a ton of stops and it’s always the one’s who have something that they don’t want the police to see give you the trouble, always.
Again I say to all of you, take a week and ride a midnight tour, you will fast change your mind.
PS: Happy to see you Squeeky, still love that photo:)
Wendel Bendel – I always tell the cops I am more afraid of them then they should be of me. Then when they ask for my registration. I say” I am reaching for my registration, is that alright with you?” And don’t move until I get a yes.
Umm, Paul, how often does this happen to you?
Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra – Whenever 😉
Paul C. Schulte…
If Arizona does legalize recreational pot this fall, take a trip through Idaho with Arizona plates.
You might gain some additional insight into the profiling issue.😉
tnash – I have Sun Devil plates on my car. Only rabid Wildcat fans would pull me over out of state. However, they would profile me instate. 🙂 The hate is deep and powerful. I don’t use my car to go to Tucson.
I spent my teaching career teaching black and Hispanic youth who were profiled all the time. At least once or twice a semester we would dedicated a class on how best to handle it and survive it. Most of my students were ganged up.
Paul C. Schulte
(I tried to hit “reply” to your latest “profiling comment”, but everything froze up)
Re the “Sun Devils Profiling”
– I’m a Washington resident, but I still winter in Tempe.
I was getting my car serviced at my friend’s Chevron station, and he gave me some flack aboit the Sun Devils cap he noticed in my car.
Once I found out that it pissed him off, I now make a point of wearing that cap when I’m at his place.😏
He’s a WSU Cougars fan.
tnash – I went into my local Costco wearing a Sun Devil hat and the manager almost didn’t serve me. Finally, he explained he was a Wildcat and seeing Sparky in front of him like that had really set him off. After we agreed we wouldn’t kill each other and neither had a decent team that year we were able to transact business.
This was odd since about half of Gilbert graduated from ASU, so he was see ASU all the time, but it was Sparky that set him over the edge. The UA has two mascots, Wilber and Wilma. ASU chant is “Fix the Cats!!!”
See how easy it is?
And all this “the “Community” doesn’t trust the police stuff. Well DUH! No darn wonder. The police are there to arrest them for their various criminal activities.
About 50%-75% of blacks are nothing but violent criminal savages, feral sociopaths, or the supporters and enablers of the savages/sociopaths. There isn’t any such thing as a black “community.” There is a black loose framework of criminals and opportunistic looters. Black lives don’t even matter enough for most of them to get married and raise their children. Much less, to even stop killing each other in large numbers. Feral blacks are the worst enemies of decent Black people.
Then, the Democrats race-bait them with all the victimology BeeEss. And now the chickens are coming home to roost. I have long said that Social Media is going to provide the gangs the tools to become more active outside their ‘hoods. Popcorn time for me! I can’t wait for them to invade some of the gated Northern enclaves. That ought to be interesting. Because the blacks are sure not going to become less violent over time with the namby-pamby treatment.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
I don’t know Squeek, if you spend some time in the suburbs of DC, you would realize the governing royal class won’t have much to worry about. They will stop any unrest by any means necessary before it would ever reach them. It’s just the rest of us who have to sort all of this out. Does anyone see an issue here? Our domestic policies are ridiculous, and our foreign policies are self-defeating. Time to just dial back on the amount of government in general. The more we have, the worse it gets.
Probably. When it is their homes that are getting burned, and their children killed. No matter how liberal some of these people are, and how much they toot the Horn of White Privilege, their own kids ain’t going to no inner city school, and they themselves will be very careful to stay out of the bad (black or Hispanic) side of town.
BUT, you need to look at a map of where blacks and illegals live.; Many Blue States have small populations of blacks, and even then, the blacks tend to aggregate in the big cities, and then, in their own neighborhoods. Here is a link to an analysis, by state:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population
Sooo, I think there are still a lot of liberal type white folks who don’t really have the opportunity to see, and live around, the average black citizen in all their blazing glory. When you are up close and personal with them on a regular basis, you tend to have a lot less respect for them.
I have known white folks who have come down here from civilized places, like Ohio, and they tend to learn pretty quickly that they have led very sheltered lives, and their black folks are not near as savage as ours. Some of that is due to the relative black population density. If blacks are 3% of a high school population, then you can still have a decent school. But if their numbers rise above maybe 10%, it quickly becomes a jungle. They tend to bring out the worst in each other. IMHO.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Your inner KKK is showing.
She cannot tell the difference between lumpenproletarian blacks (15% of the total) and working-class blacks (70% of the total).
“Working class” has little to do with it. I suggest you find Taleeb Starke’s book, and read it. The problem is far bigger than even reasonable people believe.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
What ‘problem’, squeaky? Any society, including ours, has a corps of people with a tenuous relationship to the labor market and given to bouts of law-breaking. That share varies from one place to another. The vast majority of American blacks are ordinary wage-earners and their children are ordinary wage-earner’s children. The problem we have is that school officials are systemically incompetent and lawyers also second-guess the competent school officials and run interference for bad kids and their parents. Sequester the incorrigibles and turn them over to the sheriff, and you will have a passably orderly school.
Well, to tell the truth, I am beginning to wonder if the Old Segregationists were maybe smarter than we give them credit for. I was not alive during that era, but I have not been very impressed by most blacks I have met since I was born. All I know is that they acted the fool in school instead of learning, and they seem to pop out illegitimate babies left and right – – – then want to blame me and other white people for the predicaments they find themselves in.
OTOH, if you can justify the rioting and looting to yourself, maybe you should just walk the walk and move to a predominantly lower class black neighborhood, where you can help them, and impress them with your tolerance.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
What Alejandro wrote.
Hey Alejandro, Disagree, offer facts and outcomes “racist”, “white supremacist”, “KKK”, all the rest that BS to try and stop someone, it’s old and don’t work anymore.
That’s all they have, Wendel. Name-calling to try to shut down the discussion.
The language was racist and it also showed a very limited knowledge of black people and their lives. Therefore I will continue to call out these offenses against humanity. Feel free to carry on. I have no power to shut anything down here.
How was the language racist??? Please be precise.
Thank you.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
No, You need to look deep into your soul and find the reason as to why you are compelled to say these hateful things about black people.
You called me a name, and I asked you to explain yourself. That should be a simple thing for you to do. If you are unable to do that, perhaps you should rethink the whole thing about calling people names.
I would also suggest you consider the difference between “hateful things” and “true things.”
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
That is my point. These people have insulated themselves from the negatives of the world they create. They live in their gated properties with no worries. Being a Appalachian hillbilly from one of the most depressed communities in the country, we are always amazed by the land of Oz when we travel to DC. There are places you don’t go, of course, but it is a long way from Baltimore. Just prefer to avoid that city altogether now.
Again, in 1985, DC was in worse shape than Baltimore. Much worse. It’s just that the disorder was highly concentrated in the shabby parts of town.
Squeaky, north of 40% of Ohio’s population lives in one of 11 dense metropolitan settlements. Of the countries 2d tier Rustbelt cities, Cleveland had suffered more than just about any other from industrial shifts. If you’re looking at 3d tier cities, Youngstown may have suffered the worst in the country. Someone from Ohio is no stranger to urban decay or slum problems.
I have never lived in Ohio. I do know someone who moved here from there, and she was utterly amazed at the bizarre and low class behavior of some of our black citizens. She is not the only person who has expressed such astonishment to me.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Were she that sheltered, she’d have had the same reaction had she moved from whatever locus she was living in to Cleveland or Cincy.
The District of Columbia was horribly disorderly a generation ago. Prince George’s County was quite troubled as well. In the intervening decades, law enforcement has managed to cut the homicide rate in DC by more than 75% and the homicide rate in PG by about 30%, with smaller declines in all the other components of greater Washington. Greater Washington in toto now has homicide rates near the national mean for metropolitan areas. The contrast with the situation in Baltimore is stark.
One other thing. “Our governing royal class” – official Washington – is a tiny minority of those living in greater Washington. About 2/3 of the workforce in the District and the 7 bedroom localities are private sector employees, about 12% common-and-garden public sector employees of the sort you see anywhere, and (e.g schoolteachers) about 20% federal employees of various sorts. The politicians, the judges, the lobbyists, the BigLaw lawyers, the political journalists, the patronage holders, the foreign diplomats, and the families thereof might amount to 2% of the total.
You need to get out more and meet more of the black community. You really do not seem very knowledgeable about how black people live. Do you realize that are lots of immigrants from Africa that have had no experience with a white person like you? I don’t know your age but you sound like a 90 year old segregationist that keeps a hood in the closet. And yes there are many black communities.
By “communities” do you simply mean geographic areas where a lot of black people live??? Because that is not the sense in which I mean it in the sense of “a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals.”
Which, if you notice most black people complain about the hood, and blacks who get a little money ahead, try to get out of it and go live where it is safe, and more sane. As far as Africans and non-American blacks, yes they are different than American Blacks, and BETTER IMO, and they tend to earn in a comparable or better fashion. But, they haven’t been sucked up to by white liberals and Democrats, and told over and over what a bunch of victims they are.
And, yes, I get to be around a lot of blacks, and I am not impressed with the vast majority of them. If you are NOT around a lot of blacks, here is a safe way to find out more about them, without going to their neighborhoods—the infamous Tommy Sotomayor! IIRC here is a good video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwCCj8Dx-gk
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
About 50%-75% of blacks are nothing but violent criminal savages, feral sociopaths, or the supporters and enablers of the savages/sociopaths. There isn’t any such thing as a black “community.”
Squeaky, you’re making a complete ass of yourself. Employment to population ratios among blacks are not severely depressed. They’re about 10% lower than those for the other major racial categories. The distribution of blacks among labor market strata is different that than for the general population, with proportionately fewer in salaried jobs and running small business and a proportionately larger share in hourly jobs. In general, the populaiton of salaried employees is roughly 6% black rather than 13% black as is the general population.
We’ve already reviewed on other threads the share of (working-aged, non-disabled) blacks participating in welfare programs (not that the actual data had any effect on your thinking).
There are as we speak about 900,000 blacks incarcerated. And 41 million blacks who are not.
You said, ” Employment to population ratios among blacks are not severely depressed. They’re about 10% lower than those for the other major racial categories.” OK.. . . . and your point is??? Most of them have a job, so therefore they can’t make up a group that is, “About 50%-75% of blacks are nothing but violent criminal savages, feral sociopaths, or the supporters and enablers of the savages/sociopaths.”
Here, read this from Taleeb Starkes book, like I referred you to earlier:
If you want I can link you to the first 25 pages of the book, and you can educate yourself a little.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Hey Jill, I want to add when two NYPD cops were shot and killed in their police vehicle and a number were assassinated in Dallas, no one in the community protested, rioted and looted, hmmm, Jill tell us all why? Oh that’s right the community needs more training.
Was there any doubt those responsible would be held accountable if at all possible?
When those who kill police are put on paid leave while their friends “investigate” if they did anything wrong, you might have a point. But, since they don’t, you don’t.
bakkhus – is that a reference to ‘friendly fire’? I live in Pat Tillman country and we are very sensitive about the military and cover-ups over ‘friendly fire.’
When those who kill police are put on paid leave while their friends “investigate” if they did anything wrong, you might have a point. But, since they don’t, you don’t.
Nice try, but several law enforcement agencies investigated Darren Wilson, including the FBI supervised by (cough, wheeze) Eric Holder. He wasn’t charged because he did not commit any crimes. As for the police in the Eric Garner case, the salient decisions were made by the Richmond County DA. It’s not difficult to understand why they were not charged. He was subject to an ordinary police tackle. He had an eccentric reaction to that because he was very unhealthy.
T-Spaz and Wendel,
I think you both miss the much larger picture here. Evidently, when wealthy plutocrats commit murder and torture along with other war crimes, these are your examples of fine, upstanding citizens of the world community! They are in no way to be criticized, let alone prosecuted for these heinous crimes.
The police have been uparmoured by these same fine citizens whom you so revere. This is called totalitarianism. As I have said before, Democrats and many other Americans do love their fascists!
I think you both miss the much larger picture here. Evidently, when wealthy plutocrats commit murder and torture along with other war crimes,
There’s a larger picture, and a smaller picture.
1. The larger picture is that there is a considerable criminal population in this country which is quite promiscious compared to its British counterpart and needs forcible containment. New York has an amply staffed police department which does this well. As for Detroit, forget about it
2. The smaller picture is that Jill inhabits a metal world you see only in cinematic thrillers, where corporate CEOs are imensely corrupt and employ death squads. It’s fiction, Jill, made marginally credible because TV writers work for companies run by the very corrupt.
Jill, I revere law and order. The police who you obviously think don’t know what their doing are the wall that allows you and your family to sleep peacefully each night. The military men and woman allow you to live in a country that gives everyone an opportunity to speak freely, yes and even riot and loot. Try the job on Jill then come back and tell me what you feel. If you want to bitch do it about the fact that a woman who has obviously breached the law is allowed to run for President. Scream about how you and I will be charged and indicted for any charge that wouldn’t meet the gravity of what She has done. Police who over step their authority are far and few and will be dealt with. But by tomorrow there will be more people black and white killed by blacks and that is fact!
I’m one of those milItary you mention.
I don’t think you revere law and order. That would include accountability for those who enforce the law. You revere authoritarianism.
I’m sure scads of undocumented shopping will do wonders to hold police accountable.
The rioting and looting in Charlotte will not do anything to establish the true of either account.
That’s not of interest to the rioters or their press agents. The rioters are a latent or active criminal element who loathe the police as an impediment and who despise the police as a vulgarian element who should not be able to mess with aristocrats such as themselves. The people who make excuses for the rioters see the police as cultural enemies and their ethos as an abomination. The race relations bitch is a fiction, but one they need to justify themselves. Any functional society needs a police force. No functional society needs okupiers.
They could care less who or what got shot, this is an excuse to loot and pillage for a flat screen TV or those $100 dollar pair of sneakers. If you asked any of them the name of the guy who got shot the answer would be a dumb look.
Sometimes it comes down to that. During the 1977 riots coincident with the New York City blackout, there was a woman wandering through a furniture store looking for end-tables: “there’s nothing I can use here”. Or, as one wag put it in a retort to Andrew Young, “A cry for help is often a cry for a free color TV”.
If a Republican occupied the WH, all we’d hear 24/7 from MSM is, “Why does the Republican WH not put a stop to police indiscriminate shooting deaths of innocent American blacks?” And, “Why has this Republican President created the worst race relations in the past half C.?
But with their golfing, cigarette smoking, black baby Jesus Democrat Prez, crickets.
I wrote this yesterday and I mean it. Another poster corrected the name of the rancher who was killed in Oregon. I will correct it here. I apologize for the error.
Local police have been uparmoured to the teeth by the Federal Govt. When Obamaco isn’t busy selling white phosphorus to the Saudi’s so they can burn up civilians, or calling in drone strikes at weddings and funerals, he is working hard, having other minions sell military equipment to local law enforcement.
We see the effect this is having in the killing of black people. It’s open season all year long. Why on earth would you shoot the man in Charlotte and in Tulsa, point blank, no remorse? Is there some reason police cannot act within their oath, with integrity, with using force as a last resort, not lethal force as a first call?
Then the Native American protectors-again, police up armoured, threatening, allowing dogs, bringing in weapons of war for use against a civilian population. Screaming, get on the sidewalk, get off the sidewalk or will take you down.
Finally, the stand off in Oregon with white ranchers. As Finicum was driving in his car there were police everywhere. The road was high with snow banks. Yet the police did not think to capture him for trial, they just shot to kill.
I will ask again, where is honor? Where is integrity? Where is the intellect to do one’s job with decency?
We see the police enforcing the will of the powerful against the people. We see the powerful run amok, both here and overseas, powerful people for whom life does not matter, only more power, more wealth.
****I want people in the military and in law enforcement to speak up against these actions. I want them to say they are wrong and they do not support this, that they support their oath of office, a sacred trust with the people. I want to hear that voice and I want to hear it now..****
We see the effect this is having in the killing of black people. It’s open season all year long.
In the world in which we live, there are about 360 police killings in a typical year in this country. A metropolitan region of ordinary size (e.g. Omaha or Louisville) sees one or two a year. Not terribly surprising given that we have a seven-digit population of violent criminals at any one time.
193 plus black men have been shot by police this year. In Tulsa, they have the internal reviews showing that more policing and more violence is directed at black men and women.
A police officer understands that their job is dangerous and that they may lose their life in the course of their duties. A black person certainly understands that just doing anything can cause you to lose your life. As a citizen this should outrage all of us. There isn’t an excuse for this.
As many people are pointing out, the bomber who actually tried to kill the police was somehow taken alive because police wanted to keep him alive for questioning. That means, police can make choices, even in very dangerous situations. In far too many cases, police are just choosing the most lethal action as a first choice. This isn’t good policing.
Just as Muslims speak out when another Muslim causes a terrorist attack, it is time for decent police officers to say they do not sanction this hideous violence against the people they took an oath to protect and serve. Where are there voices?
Hey Jill, Get out there and show us how the job should be done, you wouldn’t last the 10 hour tour.
Go ahead don’t talk try it on, you would walk into that community and be lucky to leave with your uniform on. What a joke!
+1
193 plus black men have been shot by police this year.
So what? About 300,000 people are remanded to state prison every year for violent crimes. There are large masses of violent men walking about. It’s not surprising that 0.1% of them need to be shot to be subdued.
Arithmetic. It’s great stuff. Jill cannot handle it, which is too bad.
Teaching Spastics: Here’s the Crutcher video. Hands were up with no reason for weapons to be drawn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xpoBEHndwM
Get over your snobbish self.
Get over your snobbish self.
It’s called long division, Steve. You usually learn it about 11 years before you apply for law school.
Teaching Spastics: Here’s the Crutcher video. Hands were up with no reason for weapons to be drawn.
Steve, that’s a video of a useless crank named Crutcher who incorporates a some brief snippets which are scaled too small to be interpreted by anyone. We know you’re a hater, that you hate cops in particular.
I guess the D.A. in Tulsa had no good reason to just indict the hysterical lady cop shooter for manslaughter.
How this plays out will depend on the information at hand, among other factors. There’s no reason to do anything but suspend judgment, but try telling the SJWs here that. Some people are pathologically opinionated.
Teaching spastics: Your comment belies the fact that the officer who shot Crutcher after he was tasered has been charged with second-degree manslaughter according to a news flash from the NYT. Why it wasn’t second-degree murder charged is outrageous.
As for Crutcher being a useless crank, perhaps you’d like to make that comment up-front-and-personal-like to his four children.
Speaking of useless cranks . . .
Why it wasn’t second-degree murder charged is outrageous.
It’s only outrageous to people who make decisions on minimal information. (And people who hate cops, which you do). Again, cops perform necessary social functions. Generic hostility to police officers is bad. The lawyer left perform no social function. Generic hostility to the lawyer left is good.
I mistook the name of the narrator for the name of the police officer. My mistake.
Steve and Teaching Spastics:
I haven’t read all of the comments yet, or seen the latest evening news on the Tulsa/ Charlotte shootings and aftermath.
I did watch the dash cam video from the Tulsa shooting, and I have a question for both of you ( or anyone else):
Cructher’s hands were high above his head as he was walking back to his vehicle.
I didn’t hear any conversation between him and the officers.
About 2 seconds before he was tazered and shot, it looks like he’s out of view of the dash cam.
The officers are between him and the dash cam, and I can’t see him at all (in those last c.2 seconds), due to the location of the officers at that point.
A. Did either of you see the video?
B. Can you see Cructher at all in the video immediately before he was shot?
C. Has there been any up-to-date breaking news on whether he was armed?
( a comment early this morning claimed he had a handgun…..I have seen nothing that confirms what was posted here near the start of the comments section).
Thanks…just trying to fill in some gaps in what I know, what I saw in the video, and what I couldn’t see in the video.
The news consensus is that there were no arms present on Crutcher or in the SUV.
Probably counting the days left to their retirement. Because most of those police officers were trained to walk around the community, they knew many of the residents and called the children by name. By the way those police officers did not carry a weapon. Only their smile and they used it to greet you. That was the time when you asked the children what they wanted to be when they grew up and some of them answered, a policeman.
I have lived a long life and I have seen the change. It began around the ’80s when our government started the War on Drugs. That ruined our Police Authority. It just became part of the Police State.
Graciela, there has never been a time in my life when police officers were not armed. Unarmed cops is a British practice.
As for the ‘War on Drugs’, legal proscription of street drugs varies from state to state in its contours. The interstate traffic has been proscribed by federal law since 1914, a set of proscriptions revised from time to time as new synthetics are invented. Special purpose federal police forces to contain the drug trade were first incorporated in 1968. Don’t know where your mind came up with ’30 years’.
There is somewhere between 1200 and 2000 killings by police in this country every year, not counting dogs.
No. Periodic studies have been done of the phenomenon over 4 decades and issued by the Bureau of Justice Statistics. The 1,200 meme is nonsense.
Please link to one.
How about telling us the names of all those men and woman in police work and non police who have been killed by the street thugs? There wouldn’t be enough room to list them. How about the black man last week water the small patch of lawn in front of his home and a black thug on a bike drives up to him and shoots him in the chest to get his wallet, all caught on video. If you want to get into “who has more victims credited to hits” your going to lose.
***I want all liberal’s to speak up against these actions, I want all liberals to stop talking from the safety of their nice homes and live in the ghetto and let see what you will have to say when your hit across your head and get mugged. Try it then get back to me with your sanctimonious non sense****
+1
Jill…
I know that area where Finicum was shot and killed pretty well.
Driven that highway many times….as the Finicum shooting video shows, road conditions can be “challenging” in the winter.
I grew up ( more or less) in SE Washington State, just a few miles from the Oregon border, I’m familiar with the area/ highways around Burns, Oregon.
So I may have followed the Bundy/ Finicum/ Burns Oregon issues more closely than most.
Just to fill in a few gaps…
The Hammond family own a ranch near Burns, OR. They leased and farm adjacent federally owned land.
( Ovet 50% of land in Oregon is owned by the federal government…this is a fairly common arrangement in some Western U.S. states, where federla ownership of land within a state can exceed 80% .
The Hammond father and son burned some land on the federal property they leased. They claimed it was to clear out weeds, the prosecution said it was arson to cover up illegal poaching.
In any case, the Hammond father and son were convicted. The son served his sentence of one year, and the father served several months.
They then returned to continue farming after their release.
Federal attorneys argued that the Hammonds should face additional time .They pressed for additional 5 YEAR SENTENCES for both Hammonds, arguing that they were also guilty of FEDERAL TERRORISM CHARGES.
The 9 th Circuit Court agreed, and the Hammonds were each on their way to prison for 5 additional years in early 2016.
This was not a very popular decision for the Hammonds’ friends and neighbors in Burns.
There were peaceful protests on behalf of the Hammonds by Burn residents.
Then armed “miltia types” from other states converged on Burns to join the protest.
Initially, there was some concern about the presence of armed people from various states walking the streets of Burns.
As the Hammonds were sent off to serve another 5 years in prison, the armed, out-of-state “visitors” tooks over and occupied several federal buildings at a wildlife refuge near Burns.
I don’t think that local Burns resisidents were involved in anything but peaceful protests, and they generally wanted to armed group to leave Burns and go home.
Law enforcement gave the armed occupiers a lot of leeway for about 6 weeks…there was no attempt to storm and retake the wildlife refuge due to the obvious risk of heavy casualties.
The Bundy brothers, and others who occupied the refuge building, were actually allowed to travel,in and out of the facility, to nearby Burns.
Supporters were unimpeded by authoritiesas they brought supplies in for the occupiers.
After about 6 weeks, law enforcement learned that the Bundys, Finicum, and others would be travelling to nearby John Day, Oregon, c. 75 miles from Burns.
They two carload caravan thought they could travel unimpeded to John Day, give their speeches and interviews, and return to the wildlife refuge.
Law enforcement decided to make the arrests during the course of the Finicum/ Bundy etc. drive on highway 95 Northbound.
It was considered to be the best ( lowest risk) way to inderdict and arrest a number of people.
That area is very remote, there was heavy snow in the area, and a LOT of officers and vehicles waiting to stop the two vehicles and arrest some of the occupants.
Finicum attempted to evade the roadblock. When ordered to surrender, he said he’d surrender to the sheriff when they arrived in John Day, but that he would not surrender to the officers out on the highway.
He was shot shortly after he finally exited his vehicle ( it was stuck on in snowbank).
Anyway, the “initial spark” that touched off this chain of events was the additional prison time tacked on to the Hammonds.
This lays it out very well:
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/22/state_of_emergency_charlotte_naacp_protesters
This is a horror story. I want the police to renounce this behavior, to speak out against it clearly. Police need integrity in their job. That video needs to be release.
Law enforcement, stop this. Speak out against this, now.
Gov. McCrory (R) just signed a law banning videos of police shootings from being released to the public. Now that is fascism. Hopefully McCory is going down to defeat,
Dave – I don’t see McCory being any more fascist than Obama claiming executive powers he doesn’t have.
He is costing his state business over the trans bathroom issue. I say he is gone.
Yeah, I’m sure mollycoddling cross-dressers is motivating for swing voters.
Polls all over the map with that race, with Cooper’s recent lead (2.4%) declining of late.
Yeah, that female cop that dusted off Terence Crutcher in Tulsa needs more training.
She has been indicted for manslaughter by the Tulsa D.A.
Sadly they are looting and burning for the wrong reasons. They should be out there screaming about the fact that there are two forms of administering the law there’s the law for them, you and I, then there’s the law for the political aristocracy. I wonder if I have to go to court and defend myself and use the “Hillary Defense” I “can’t remember”, “can’t recall” and “if I had to do over again I would do it differently” will the prosecutor say there’s not enough evidence to convict?
When they hit the street for that, I think I’ll join them.
Your wording implies there are right reasons for looting and burning. Wrong!
Well, 50 years of Democratic Party race-baiting and VOILA! – – – you have Charlotte! And Ferguson. And Milwaukee, and Dallas, and Baton Rouge. But, race-baiting gets them votes. Dems like to complain about the Willie Horton stuff, but what a load of crap. Democrats are in their form of “Willie Horton Mode” 24/7. Blaming everything on White Privilege, racism, Post Traumatic Slavery Disorder.
Gee, I wonder where we would be as a Nation if Obama had stayed with his “blacks need to be responsible” meme of his 2008 campaign, instead of his Thug Worship meme.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter