Bats Over Ballots: Anti-Trump Rhetoric Takes Violent Turn

For days leading up to the election, President-elect Donald Trump was pummelled (not without reason) for suggesting that he might not accept the results of the election.  Now, many of the same people who were outraged, are protesting the results of the election. Some however have gone further and taken the rhetoric to violent levels.  For example, Actress Lea DeLaria, right, (Big Boo on “Orange Is the New Black“) wrote on Instagram that she wanted to “take out” Republicans and Independents with a baseball bat.  Likewise, Matt Harrigan, CEO of the network security firm PacketSled went on Facebook to say that he would kill Trump.They are only two of a chorus of liberals who have discarded any  measure of restraint or principle in lashing out at the results of an election because it did not turn out the way that they wanted.

DeLaria left little doubt as to how she believes people should react when they do not get what they want in a democratic process. She  suggested that people “pick up a baseball bat and take out every f–king republican and independent I see. #f–ktrump #f–ktheGOP #f–kstraightwhiteamerica #f–kyourprivilege.”  It is not clear if studios would react to her hateful message. There has been no such reaction thus far.

There was a response to Harrigan, who is now the former CEO at PacketSled.  Somehow threatening the life of the President-elect did not sit well with the security company. It also did not help to prove that you are a dysfunctional moron in publicly threatening a president, which is a crime under federal law.


Harrigan went back on social media to say it was just a joke — just one that no one thought was funny:

“My recent Facebook comment was intended to be a joke, in the context of a larger conversation, and only privately shared as such. Anyone who knows me, knows that I do not engage in this form of rhetoric with any level of seriousness and the comment most certainly does not represent my real personal views in any regard. I apologize if anything that I said was either taken seriously, was offensive, or caused any legitimate concern.”

In the meantime, the company is working with the Secret Service after dispatching their CEO:

“The PacketSled Board of Directors accepted the resignation of President and CEO Matthew Harrigan, effective immediately. Fred Wilmot, the company’s Chief Technology Officer, will serve as interim CEO while the Board of Directors conducts a search for a permanent replacement. We want to be very clear, PacketSled does not condone the comments made by Mr. Harrigan, which do not reflect the views or opinions of the company, its employees, investors or partners.”

These statements raise a long-standing debate that we have had on this blog over the discipline or termination of employees for their actions in their private lives.  Companies are not restricted under the First Amendment in this sense. If any employee embarrasses the company by their association with controversial actions or statements, they can be terminated.  That can create a “Little Brother” problem that we have previously discussed.

While I know people coming to Washington protest the election, I do not share that view.  They, of course, have every right to protest, but I believe that the country should come together in the 45th peaceful transfer of power in the country.  Those voters who prevailed have every reason to celebrate.  Those who lost are protesting the results of a democratic process — a problematic notion.  Nevertheless, both the inauguration and the protests reflect the core rights protected in this country so long as people like DeLaria and Harrigan do not find solace in calling for violence as a way to vent their disappointment.  President Barack Obama said once that “elections have consequences.”  The inauguration is one of those consequences.

283 thoughts on “Bats Over Ballots: Anti-Trump Rhetoric Takes Violent Turn”

  1. It is the season of lies and liars

    The most powerful form of lie is the omission — George Orwell

    He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers — Charles Péguy

    John 8:44-45 King James Version (KJV)

    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

  2. Medicare as we know it in jeopardy if Trump supports Paul Ryan’s reforms

    House Speaker Paul Ryan’s plan to phase out Medicare is nothing new. But now, under a Trump presidency and with both houses of Congress in Republican hands, it looks like he could hypothetically be able to make it happen.

    Back in 2011, as a U.S. representative for Wisconsin’s 1st Congressional District, Ryan floated a plan to turn Medicare into a “premium support” program. The “premium support” would be a payment that would let you buy insurance from private insurers. But you won’t get full coverage.

    As Josh Marshall acidly noted Sunday in a blog for TPM, “In any case, rather than Medicare you’ll have insurance from an insurance company, which everybody should love because haven’t you heard from your parents and grandparents how bummed they were when they had to give up their private insurance for Medicare?

    “You’ll hear lots of people calling this ‘reform’ and other catchwords. But Medicare is a single payer, universal health care system. Replacing it with private insurance means getting rid of it. Even calling it ‘privatization’ masks what is really afoot

    1. What makes you think I gave up private insurance because I have Medicare, Champus Tricare, and narrowly escaped as a result Obamacare? I have three medical or medically related insurance programs. No way I’m giving them up because Obama said so. I refuse to be a victim of his legacy.

  3. Is Trump really working to free us from Zionist control?
    This is very interesting. Trump is giving us a mixed bag. On one hand endorsing Netanyahu and
    saying he loves Israel and on the other hand saying he wants to reopen the 9/11 investigation??
    What is it going to be Trump? We want to believe you’ll expose that Israel did 9/11.
    Things are in flux. Maybe people are trying to get on the right side of history, overcoming cowardice, coming to their senses, not wanting to be shills any longer, edification spiritually?
    But they have a debt to God, blood on their hands, in supporting this murderous regime and government.

  4. This blog is not a legal blog in any way. So far all Turley has done is to slam Clinton and her supporters. He has not mentioned one thing that Trump has done which are corrupt, illegal, and grossly breaking with all precedent. The conflict of interests are massive with his saying that his family will run his empire.That makes Clinton look absolutely pure in comparison. Then we have the fact that Trump will require SCOTUS nominees decide BEFORE appointment how they will rule on cases involving abortion. For a law professor, this should be even MORE outrageous than his suit against Obama for bypassing Congressional approval. There is no mention about the illegal campaign contributions, his spokeswoman telling journalists that they had better watch out how they report. The list is way to large to completely relate, which shows that there is more than enough material which would be good grist for the legal mill. Instead, we have nothing but political posturing against all Clintons and Democrats. Incredible.

        1. Thank you Autumn and NickS!!! I am glad you liked it, and hope Randyjet likes it, too!

          PS:Autumn, did you get my link to

          They have their ebooks on sale for $1.00 each this week. They are a Progressive-y sort of publisher, and you might pick up some cheap reading. They also sell real books.

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

  5. Trump adviser linked to Turkish lobbying
    A company tied to Erdogan’s government hired retired general Michael Flynn’s lobbying firm.

    Donald Trump wants to forbid his officials from lobbying for foreign governments, but one of his top national security advisers is being paid by a close ally of Turkey’s president.

    Retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, a vice chair of the Trump transition who is in the running for a top national security post in the new administration, runs a consulting firm that is lobbying for Turkish interests, an associate told POLITICO. Asked if Flynn’s firm was hired because of the general’s closeness to Trump, the associate, Robert Kelley, said, “I hope so.”…

    A lobbying registration posted Sept. 30 said that Kelley, a former chief counsel to the House National Security Subcommittee, would lobby on bills funding the departments of State and Defense.

    “We’re going to keep them informed of U.S. foreign and domestic policy,” Kelley said in a phone interview. “They want to keep posted on what we all want to be informed of: the present situation, the transition between President Obama and President-Elect Trump.”

    Kelley said he didn’t know if the client presented a conflict of interest. A spokesman for Flynn said he was too busy to answer questions. The Trump transition didn’t answer a request for comment.

    The “contract with the American voter” released by the Trump transition pledges to instate “a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government.”

  6. Trump Is the Legitimate President Based on Constitutional Principles of Federalism and States Rights

    Any first year law student should be able to tell you that we have 51 sets of laws, one for the federal government, and 50 for each state. Federalism is a fundamental principle of government, in the United States, that defines the relationship between the federal government at the national level, and its constituent units at the state and local levels. Trump won the majority of states, and he won the majority of electoral votes. We live in a shared system of government. Those citizens who do not like the laws or political make-up of their states are free to move to another state per the Privileges and Immunities Clause, the Commerce Clause as well as other federal statutes and Supreme Court Constitutional interpretations. This is not a communist country, citizens are allowed to freely emigrate- no one is shot trying to climb over any type of Berlin wall of yore. Of course, all we hear the liberal media talking about is how Hillary won the popular vote by 200,000 to over a million votes. That does not mean she won the Presidency under our federalist system of government. It is also not unique, it has happened five times before, the last time was Al Gore’s winning the popular vote in the 2000 Presidential election. If you do not like our federalist system of government, that is too bad for you. Your dislike of federalism does not undermine Trump’s legitimacy one whit. Happy trails Hillary!

    1. Notice no answer from the monkeys?

      Kudos to a well written, concise and exactly correct explanation of what used to be high school civics. From my centrist and moderate vantage point I applaud and would enjoy more of the same.

      Keep in mind it will fall on deaf ear’s when it hits the progressive wall. Socially promoted types are not allowed to think of reason or learn. On the other hand it does make them rather easy. Witness the alien life form side thread.

      Guaranteed if the shoe was on the other foot they would be drooling over how great the electoral system was and claiming authorship. Carville, Lykoff and company would make sure of that and …who are these plug in disposable parts to disagree with the party thinkers?

      Wait until a non-attorney non-citizen is nominated to the court. No it doesn’t take a first year law student to understand our handbook and manual of the social contract – The Constitutional Republic. At least it didn’t used to require that much. These days I’m fairly sure it would be a three excedrin headache.

      Along with the alien explanaton the Court Selection Comment is, of course, a trap. Give it a day and see how many forget while the early bird gets the worm it is the second mouse that gets the cheese.

      1. Thanks Mike. I do not think that there is anything resembling progressive about mainstream Democrats like Clinton. These people openly lie, steal, cheat and change their opinions with the political winds. Sanders could have been a progressive for the working class. He is not owned by Wall Street and the banks. I was disheartened when he chose to endorse Clinton after she stole his Democratic Nomination. I believe that Trump could be a great President, another Teddy Roosevelt, if his Administration is not hijacked by nefarious, entrenched interests.

    2. I heard Marian Wright Edelman introduce Hillary tonight at a CDF banquet as “the people’s president” — Hillary won the popular vote and she is ‘our president.’

      1. What is a Marian Wright Edelmen and why should it is? One of those who didn’t go out and vote? One of those who thought Obama was going to executive order the Electoral System out of existence?

        Never mind? What it is is unimportant, Just like what’s her name

        WWoTL The wicked witch of the left is …….nothing.

        WWoTW The wicked witch of the west is next.

        :Let the supporters pay for the stone.

        1. Marian Wright Edelman is the founder of the Children’s Defense Fund, which used to have a great deal of entree in Congress and got excellent press. Since 1981, she’s faced an antagonistic (or at least uninterested) administration much of the time and an antagonistic (or at least uninterested) Congress much of the rest of the time. She broke with the Clinton’s over welfare reform in 1996. A cynic might suggest the Children’s Defense Fund was never aught but a lobbyist for the social worker industry. She did a pretty good job of making the phrase “The Children” a punch line (because it had been used so often in the shizzy sales pitches which were the Fund’s working papers and congressional testimony).

          1. Thank you. I did look it up. What a remarkable woman! My main point was not everyone knows everything so it’s sort of a courtesy when introducing a name to give a few words of introduction. And my thanks in advance.

            1. hey MA — That’s a very nice post. Got it and made note for future reference. I wasn’t sure what to make of your post when I read it yesterday and it made me laugh so I sent off my reply – which I hope you know was meant in fun? 🙂 Keep on carrying on!

      2. So Trump is ‘their’ president (the deplorables) and Hillary is ‘our president’ (the people). See where this is going?

        1. Sure it’s the answer to why the voting statistics are showing those doing most of the protesting had a low voter turn out. People don’ t vote. Citizens do. It’s deplorable how they couldn’t be bothered.

    3. Exactly. Well said. The Dems are going on and on about the popular vote as they move through Stage 3 of the grieving process: Bargaining.

      1. This last one was a reply to PeaceFrog (Trump Is the Legitimate President Based on Constitutional Principles of Federalism and States Rights)

      2. These nationwide street protests are being organized, people are being bussed in and paid. Horrendous, if you saw the pre-election bird dogging being talked about on hidden camera by paid staffers. This is right out of the third-world, banana republic playbook.

        1. PeaceFrog – George Soros and are behind the protests. I think should be hit with RICO violations for the damages done across the country.

      1. If this lined up right the alien life theory was proven to be as real as mom’s apple pie a number of decades ago when the first astronauts landed on the moon. Posted here in the last few months I believe.

        So…pay attention. Astronaut lands on the moon steps off the lander ladder and looks around see footprints so do the others. Follows the realization there is alien life on the moon. That continued until they left but surprisingly the alien life forms left with them. Now here’s the fun part. How do you explain that to NASA who would quarantine them to death probably? Never mind NASA didn’t and the report was filed but here’s the strange thing. Although they had photographic proof when they returned to Earth good ole Terra Firma the alien life forms immediately disappeared.

        Old story nothing new there.

        Who wants to bite on that one?

        1. Fair enough!! Good point! One can be excused for being skeptical of “investigations” but It certainly won’t hurt to wait and see what comes of it. I’m always hoping that at some point Lucy will not grab the ball and Charlie will finally get to make a kick.

  7. Reference comment on the left and concentration camps.

    1. they always look in the mirror – describe wha they say, call it conservative and use it to attack whomever. Too stupid to figure out their biggest opponents are not conservatives.

    2. As for the camps they have been calling for them for what two years now non-stop especially for those who don’t bow down to Al the Bore Gore and his phony global warming crap. But then what else would you expect from left wing fascists? After all they are only following the party line – followed by Seig Heil Bernie we serve the party.

    nothing strange about your comment it is highly accurate. Monkey see monkey do

  8. China Tells Trump That Climate Change Is No Hoax It Invented

    China couldn’t have invented global warming as a hoax to harm U.S. competitiveness because it was Donald Trump’s Republican predecessors who started climate negotiations in the 1980s, China’s Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin said.

    U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush supported the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in initiating global warming talks even before China knew that negotiations to cut pollution were starting, Liu told reporters at United Nations talks on Wednesday in Marrakech, Morocco.

  9. Russia’s Involvement in the 2016 Election Is Growing by the Day
    Now the NSA director admits Russia used Wikileaks to meddle in the campaign.

    It’s shoveling sand against the tide to ask this question again, but why isn’t the fact that Russia played monkey-mischief with the recent presidential election—and the fact that we have no freaking idea how much the president-elect may owe to various financial institutions with connection to that kleptocratic regime—a much bigger story than it has been? Now, we’ve got the director of the National Security Agency chiming it. Via Quartz:

    In response to a question, Michael S. Rogers, a Naval officer and NSA director since 2014, said on stage at a Wall Street Journal conference that Wikileaks was furthering a nation-state’s goals by publishing hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee and Clinton’s presidential campaign weeks ahead of the election. “There shouldn’t be any doubt in anybody’s minds, this was not something that was done casually, this was not something that was done by chance, this was not a target that was selected purely arbitrarily. This was a conscious effort by a nation-state to attempt to achieve a specific effect,” he said.

    1. Seriously? You fall for this again and again? Obviously the NSA would say that. They would love nothing more than to get rid of Wikileaks once and for all and are delighted to use people’s mindless fear and paranoia as an excuse.

      Every one knows it’s not the Russians that hacked our system; it’s the Martians, dummy.

      Wikileaks reports facts regardless of who they favor (granted they have a bias against the status quo, neoliberals and neoconservatives). Get a grip, wait six months, and you will be howling in defense of Wikileaks when they give revealing information about the Trump administration.

      1. Brooklyn,

        Send your complaint to the NSA director. Evidently, you know more than he does.

        1. Ahem. Small correction. Who, prey tell, oh thee of endless breath, is complaining?

          It will be a hoot to listen to you drool praise all over wikileaks in six months.

            1. Not in the habit of drooling? Get real. You’ve had foam coming out of your mouth, which, incidentally, hasn’t been shut, for the last four days!

              I sympathize with your pain, but I am frankly surprised at the extent to which you allow yourself to be duped. No one but no one has given a shred of substantial proof that Russia has tried to tamper with the elections. That they do hacking is a given. So does the US.

              Consider it. Who was the first person to raise the alarm that the Russians were hacking the emails? Someone from the NSA no doubt? Perhaps from the FBI – yes, now that would make sense. W-R-O-N-G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was Clinton’s campaign manager, John Podesta, in swift response to the news that the DNC and Clinton had engineered Sander’s loss of the nomination. Look over there everyone – The Russians Are Coming!!! Her C-A-M-P-A-I-G-N M-A-N-A-G-E-R for crying out loud! That was the first person that started spreading the pure pile of crap-O-rumor. So then, did the FBI come out and say, YES INDEED – we have the proof???? NO, of course not, Comey came out and explicitly stated that we had no means of attribution and that it was technically almost impossible to determine.

              I know, I know, Comey is in the tank for Trump which is why, of course, in June or July he came out and gave Hillary Clinton the biggest get out of jail free card ever presented in public because the AG, Loretta Lynch was too busy in a huddle with big Bill the Clinton man in his private jet to even be bothered.

              1. WOW! Nice rant. I think you need to sit back and relax. It might do you some good…might keep your eyeballs from spinning in their sockets.

                  1. He has a special USB that plugs in to George Lykoff and James Carville for reprograming. Never forget left wing secular progressice fascists follow the Stalinist Hitlerist mode with out question or better yet wonder “What is a question?”. I’m pushing buttons now to see which Standard Canned SFB Answer from The Radical Reasoning Handbook is posted.

                    1. “Never forget left wing secular progressive fascists…”

                      Too funny! Keep the comedy coming!

                  2. Brooklin,

                    That isn’t likely to happen anytime soon. Continue on if you like…if that’s what floats your boat.

                1. Good for Julian. Nice…I guess think you can read into the future. Do you have special powers?

                  1. “Good for Julian. Nice…I guess think you can read into the future. Do you have special powers?’

                    That should have read:
                    Good for Julian. Nice…I guess you think you can read into the future. Do you have special powers?

                    1. Yea, I have special powers. I can think. Wikileaks publishes facts that it uncovers that show wrong doing or salient and/or embarrassing information regarding the current administration (not to mention those of other countries). In six months Trump and his team will be “The Current Administration” with well over 100 days behind them. Put that together with what Wikileaks does (hint: publish facts it uncovers (in case you forgot)) and you get Wikileaks publishing “dirt” on the Trump administration. Anyone who thinks Trump will have no dirt by then is in happy land and it’s only fair they get to enjoy it for a while.

                      Short version, you will be in seventh heaven because Wikileaks will be shooting broad sides at your bête noire. Regardless of this comment or those I made above, or those anyone has made in the last four days, in six months It will never occur to you that six months earlier you would swear Wikileaks was a traitor and a this and a that and a bla, bla, bla.

  10. Bernie Sanders: Trump Must Rescind Appointment Of ‘Racist’ Bannon

    In a scathing statement Wednesday, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) demanded that President-elect Donald Trump rescind his appointment of Steve Bannon as a White House adviser.

    Sanders described Bannon as “a racist individual” whose appointment to a high level White House position was “totally unacceptable.”

    “This country, since its inception, has struggled to overcome discrimination of all forms: racism, sexism, xenophobia and homophobia. Over the years we have made progress in becoming a less discriminatory and more tolerant society – and we are not going backward,” Sanders said in his statement. “The appointment by President-elect Trump of a racist individual like Mr. Bannon to a position of authority is totally unacceptable. In a democratic society we can disagree all we want over issues, but racism and bigotry cannot be part of any public policy. The appointment of Mr. Bannon by Mr. Trump must be rescinded.”

    1. EDM, others such as Progressive Tim Black think otherwise – get Bannon out there so we can identify the real racists versus those who profess to love the black/brown/red/yellow folks and actually undermine them

      1. Autumn,

        Different people may have different opinions on the subject of Bannon. Not everyone agrees with Tim Black.

        1. I don’t think he likes me as I compared him as a follow on to Ken Hamblin. Suddenly no access and I rather liked the hick corn pone act etc. Of course he couldn’t hold a candle to Hamblini so I must have hurt his feelings.

    2. Bannon guided Trump’s campaign to a stunning victory that took down the Bush’s, the Clinton’s and the Obama’s. No small feat. Bannon is their biggest threat and they intend to destroy him no matter what garbage they have to make up to smear him.

  11. This is getting more interesting by the minute. Protestors. Democratic leaders giving them a winky-wink. Strange reports of the Clinton foundation purchasing $137 million in arms. Trump butting heads with other repub leaders. Like I said, Trump is the catalyst, and probably won’t be there in the end. Come on third party alternative! Or maybe this is all just some weekly network drama. ?????????

  12. Of course, the media presstitutes, operating in the service of the Elite Establishment which favored Hillary Clinton, have played a big part in inspiring the talk of violence and aggression, as well as the actual acts themselves. They have been pounding the message that “Trump = Hitler” for some time now as a way to justify any and all attacks on DJT and his supporters. The media presstitutes continue their acts of presstitution with their meritless attacks on Stephen K. Bannon. The Secret Service would do well to start rounding up some of the more virulent and vile presstitutes after DJT assumes office. The Secret Service is going to have its hands full with investigations. I’d also suggest that after DJT assumes office that IRS take away the tax exempt 501(c)(3) status that such organizations as the ADL and the SPLC currently enjoy. Those organizations have been funded heavily by Hillary Clinton’s supporters and have been serving as Political Action Committees with their meritless attacks on Steve Bannon. They cannot pretend that their organizations are performing “charitable,” “educational,” or “civic” services when they are really serving as PACs. And PACs are not entitled to tax-exempt status.

    1. Demographics are NOT destiny? You’re joking, right?

      When 70 plus percent of all non-whites vote for Democratic candidates and do so on a consistent basis it is inevitable.

      Why do you think libs are openly crowing about a soon to come demographic lock on the electoral college?

      All of the Jack Kemp’s in the world can’t out out give Santa Claus.

      “In multicultural and multiethnic societies, people do not vote on economics, but on tribe, race and religion.”

      — Lee Kwan Yew

      Founder of Modern Singapore

      1. Antonio, way fewer blacks turned out this time and many younger blacks as well as Asians and Hispanics went for Bernie and Trump. When the older generation dies off unless the Democrats change the party is toast.

  13. Obama is making the final rounds flying around the world on Air Force One (his favorite thing to do besides play golf) on what was to be his victory tour and grand speech at the birthplace of democracy standing in front of the Greek columns of the Acropolis. Instead, he delivers his speech in an auditorium – after the collosal loss here at home -and then he tours the Greek ruins. It’s a fitting visual: the outgoing president walks among the ruins in Greece while his party here at home are themselves in ruins – after 8 years of Obama.

    1. And of course the New York Times headline today is, “Trump Transition Team in a State of Disarray” — not the Democrat party in complete ruins after 8 years, but week two of a presidential transition — that’s “week number 2”, people.

      1. While in Greece President Obama cites polls saying, “people seem to think I did a pretty good job.” (Mind you, his party just crashed and burned).

        And still, there’s no connection to the polls that said 7 out of 10 think the country has been heading in the wrong direction. And so…..who’s been at the helm for the past eight years?

        The disconnect is mind boggling.

        1. This is worth saying again: Trump won more states in this election than Obama did in 2008. ‘Acceptance’ is Stage 5 of the grieving process. The Dems need a little more time to get there.

          1. One can accept that Trump won an electoral college victory but one does not have to like it. Trump could try being less exclusionary.

            1. Why? We didn’t take on the the Republican right wing of the left, the Democrat left wing of the left and the insiders to turn around and include a 100 years of failure after we reclaiimed our Constitutional Republic.

              However you could be more inclusive by honoring your oaths of office and learning to be responsible self governing citizens. We didn’t go to all the trouble of a counter revolution against socialist fascism we went to the trouble to prove that ballots are better than bullets and thinking reasoning self governing citizens are better than that.

              Now you want us to ‘give back?’ That which we just fought for? I don’t think so. However if you wish to participate we are a free country. We just proved it.

              First thing to learn is in a Constitutional Republic based on a grass roots foundation of representative democratic principles the Center IS the Constitution. It has several features you might like. One is called amendments.

              Another is provisions to prevent any one faction such as large population states or as is possible in the Senate low population states from seizing control

              Or worse foreign political philosophies that seek to enslave our independent thinking citizens without violence, racism, sexism and bigotry that seems to be included automatically. Nor giving in to neo feudalistic self proclaimed aristocracies seeking to turn the clock back to pre1776.

              Three simple rules

              Quit enabling
              Take Control
              Make Changes

              There are now two clearly defined factions

              Citizens over Government
              Government over Citizens

              Your choice. Freedom or Serfdom you can include yourselves we will not stop excluding what we have defeated. Conflict resolution 101 it’s all a matter of perception and this is Perception Management 101.

              The third revolution failed the counter revolution prevailed and will continue to do so.If we can keep it.

              and that will be our legacy to the following generations. If they can keep it.

              All it takes are responsible citizens. and a government of employees responsible to them.

              Welcome to the Center.

              1. Reclaimed does not have two letter i’s. Actually i’m interested in what can be brought to the table. Problems without solutions are problems unsolved. Fourth Branch of Government for example. Easily solved.

                Any agency in the Executive Branch with a judicial function such as IRS Courts sends them to the Jiudicial Branch of Governmeht – budget, people, everything. IF the Judicial branch will accept and legitimize them. Otherwise disbanded and the function returns to the regular court system.

                Any part of the Executive Branch that deals in writing laws, rules, regulations goes to the Legislative branch IF they will take them. If not they are dissolved.

                Both branches need technical expertise both deserve to have them.

                The Executive Branch does not need to harbor rogue triplethreat and un-supervised power seekers. It has it’s own job to do.

                Some exceptions are noted such as the Uniform Code of MilitaryJustice system. So far one has to volunteer to move under that lifestyle.

                Which reminds me do we really need military conscripton law on the books and active in it’s registration of 18 year olds. If so then why is the 18 year old not offered a simple choice. “Do you accept or not accept the Social Contract of full citizenship in the USA?” instead of the bribery student loans and government jobs and the hidden but very real jail and monetary fines for refusing to involuntarily volunteer. Doesn’t that signature then change status from potential draftee to volunteer awaiting reporting orders? Think about it.
                Do not forget to include women. sp they too can be first class citizens with full and equal rights and responsibilities.

                Third restore civil rights and the Bill of Rights by excluding in writing the terrorism provisions for arrest all citizens of the USA. I refer to the use of ‘suspicion of’ in place of ‘probable cause’ and ‘due process.’

                For the record 24 years Infantry and i was never drafted. I do not approve of involuntary conscription.

                Those two suggestions are what I bring to the table. What’s on your agenda.

        2. Obama seems to believe that his popularity equals agreeing with his worldview and his policies. Does this square up?

          1. Not in the Rust Belt. All those blue states turned red and went to Trump in this election.

            1. View from the Constitutional center. and the moderates.

              It is great fun watching the Democrats tear themselves apart and argue over who is liberal and who is progressive. Did you forget Materialists and Darwinists? Oh yes and the NeoCons, and Republicans in name only right wing of the left.

              It was and is great fun watching the Republicans and Democrats tear themselves apart and the neo-feudalist aristocracy establishment left see their control slip away – while Soros funded Brown Shirt Nazi stiyle thugs destroyed their credibilty.

              Then came the counter revolution and while the left worried about tanks in the streets it was fought with ballots not bullets.

              it was a counter revolution against a socialist autocracy run amok who overplayed thier hand and with each over reaction lost more votes and lost more support.

              What they gained were votes for a return to the combination of Representative Democracy at it’s grass roots base supporting a Constitutional Republic and at the center, the true center the Constitutional Republic.

              All of which makes up self government at it’s best. Responsible self governing Citizens using the useful tools provided by a 240 year old document. And that IS the sacred ground and center of poltiical discourse Mr. Carville. It is not the center of the left.

              It was abd fun watching all the diverse divided factions of the left by whatever name running amok as they see a future without special privileges.and their privileged interest group world collapse around them…and then burn their neighborhoods? What is that? Turns out it was and is bought and aid for fascist thuggery.

              So how did all this happen? All it took was paying attention to two vowels and using the powers retained not granted A and O instead of U and E. Ballots not bullets applied within the system. You just watch the true living Constitution work as it was designed to do. And using the right tool at the right time.

              Citizens in a Constitutional Republic are the source of power and hold control over government. It’s not the other way around and that definition does not fit a Socialist Autocracy, nor a tyranny of a few States nor a neo feudalist aristocracy. No mystery at all. Just takes a bit of responsible effort.

              While it is still available as Franklin said ‘we gave you a Republic if you can hold it.’ Can you?

              That’s a view from the true center. Looks pretty good from here. You might want to try it sometime. Those two vowels can always change.

              More important is the continuing counter revolution in less than two years time. The fat lady hasn’t begun to warm up much less present a final concert.

              Stop Enabling
              Take Control
              Make Changes


        3. This is a guy who also reportedly said that he learned that he’s “pretty good at killing people”, in reference to targeted drone strikes.

        4. So I leave the casa about eight AM and come back at Three PM. Now we get something interesting. I looked at every tenth approximately so I may have missed something. Not much. Different minute, hour, day, week, month, year, decade same BS crap. Come on leftists you gotta quit getting your marching orders from losers. Carville? So boring his wife left him and became a libertarian, Yoda Lickoff? Smacking his lips at the though of version three of the elephant book and how many suckers will shell out a another ten bucks each. Comrade’s Reid and Pelosi wow that’s intelligence NOT. George Soros? Ask how he survived WWII and who he worked for since then. life goes on and thanks for the support in destroying Clinton and tthe Democrats AND the right wing of the left the RINO Republicans.

 moveon.orgasm. I’ll keep searching up to three thirty or four. It would go faster but I’m laughing at the extent of Mother Gumpitis. OK let’s here from Looney Clooney. Then all the idiots will have checked in.

          Not one constructive comment or suggestion from the left….but what else is yesterdays news?

    2. I would not worry about the party being in ruins too much, Autumn. When Obama was elected everyone said the republican party was in ruins. Guess what two years later the republicans scored big victories. K street never goes out of business.

      1. Oh I’m not worrying SWM as I am an independent. Still, I hope for Tulsi Gabbard. But maybe she’ll leave the party.

    3. The Acropolis has been disgraced by a far better class of people than a BS frijole artist like Obama and somehow survived. In a few years it will be “Whats an Oh Bah Mah.

  14. Squeeky,

    We need every person to be clear eyed about what is happening. No taking sides with the oligarchy that has your party name on it! When Obama commits a crime it is wrong. When Trump commits a crime it is wrong. Had HRC been elected and committed more crimes, they would also be wrong.

    Do not accept crimes of the powerful–period. Blind obedience to authority is what lost us the rule of law in the first place. Be willing to call out your own party when they destroy the rule of law. It’s the only way back to justice. If you want totalitarianism you could have voted Clinton as easily as Trump.

        1. Let’s see. If you save some money, you can get a tax break! Sooo, like your IRA, the cash builds up tax free. Then when you need it, you get to give it to a rich doctor, or a hospital who is screwing us all over with inflated prices! Sooo, in effect the HSA is a tax break to funnel money from you and the taxpayers/country to rich people!

          Then, what are you even saving for? Let’s suppose you set $20,000 aside in an HSA. What does that buy? Who knows? Could be one broken arm, or maybe a problem free baby delivery. Or not. The broken arm could cost $40,000. Who knows? Nobody even knows what the medical stuff cost.

          Then, who can actually use an HSA. Not most Americans, because most don’t even have $1,000 in total savings. And,because real wages haven’t gone up, most can’t save anything even approaching real money. Sooo, the program benefits marginally, the upper middle class who can afford to save. Meanwhile, your typical middle class schmuck gets no benefit.

          But even there, there is already a provision to deduct your medical expenses in excess of 7.5% of your AGI. Sooo, who really benefits? The scales move further toward the upper class, for whom 7.5% of the AGI is a very high number. But now, their non-deductible stuff suddenly gets tax benefits!

          That’s just for a start!

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

          1. Squeeky,
            One way or another, money flows to the doctor for medical services.
            That is an expense weather it is out of pocket, or the patient pays for insurance and the insurance then pays the doctor, whether Medicare or Medicaid pay, or whether there is a subsidized or insubsidized Obamacare plan.
            Another option to go without insurance, pay the penalty, and hope for the best.
            Without trying to cover every possible scenario, here’s a summary of the appeal of HSAs.
            Let’s say an individual can get a top-of-the line “Cadillac plan” for $500 a month.
            Very low deductibles and co-pays.
            Let’s say that person decides instead to go for a HSA.
            Most who opt for HSA s have a high deductible(there may be limits under the HSA option as to how high the deductible can be).
            Let’s say it’s a $10,000 a year deductible, and costs $250 per mo.
            ( v. the $500 per month Cadillac plan.
            That is a savings of $3000 a year in reduced insurance premiums.
            That $3,000 can be used for dental, vision, vitamins, etc. from the tax free account that will likely grow over time.
            Obviously, if the medical bills are $10,000 a year, or $5,000 a year,the HSA would not work out well over that period.
            If out of pocket medical care costs $1,000 a year, then the HSA grows at $2,000.
            With tax advantages.
            I think another major benefit to the HSAs is that help contain overall expenses for the health care system.
            Most people don’t ask what a service or procedure will cost, especially if they are insured.
            People spending out of that ( hypothetical) $3,000 annual stash are more incline to inquire about costs, perhaps get a price break for upfront cash payment, and have incentive to see if the $900 MRI across town is preferable to the $1500 MRI the facility down the street charges.
            Anyway, I can’t see this to proofread it until it posts, so I’ll “post and proofread”.

            1. Squeeky….just one additional point.
              I’ve asked a couple of MDs, as well as an office manager for billing
              for a medical practice) how much they could discount if they operated on a “cash up front” basis, with a reduced billing staff, without trying to navigate thousands of pages of codes and regulations, and without having to wait for the insurance payment to come in, and spend time screwing with those insurance clowns to get them to pay.
              The consensus from these 3 people( different practices) was “40%
              off for cash” at time of service.

            2. Medical Savings Accounts as the roof and some limited form of government/tax payer provided floor underneath for use in certain circumstances. The MSA’s not taxed and not in the hands of the government. A good source of information on this method is Dr. Larry Arnn of Hillsdale College.

              Second item is high priced medicines that routinely cost 40% in Canada or Mexico of the US prices.

              Third item is tort reform

              Fourth item is two fold. High cost of liability insurance passed on to the consumer/patient naturally AND when a member of the medical profession is found to be unacceptably substandard and causes death or further injury why is it only a civil suit? Isn’t a crime involved somehow? Why the free pass?

              Fifth some sort of fine for using Emergency Rooms instead of First Responder or Mercy First Care facilities.

              That’s a start. Not a finished complete list.

              1. Michael
                All good points….there is no ONE answer/ solution to our high
                health care costs.
                One aspect of the HSA that I like, and that you mention, is the fact that it gives the patient more control and flexibility in managing their
                health care.

            3. All the “benefits” still flow to the people who can afford to put money up for their medical costs. Whcih most can not under the current system. I have posted things from this guy here before. Here is one of his more recent recaps:


              Medical costs are like college costs. They have become rackets, due to the presence of third party payers. HSA’s just allow the racket to continue, and reduce the impact on the upper income sorts.

              Squeeky Fromm
              Girl Reporter

              1. Squeeky
                As you said, benefits flow to those who can fund their HSAs.
                Benefits flow to those who can afford insuranse.
                Benefits flow to those heavily subsidized by Obamacare.
                You mentioned the interjection of third party (payment) as a cost driver.
                I mentioned that earlier, when I said the insured patient probably won’t compare prices at different facilties for an MRI.
                But the patient spending out of his $3,000 out of his HSA account has incentive to go to a place that charges $900 for an MRI, and bypass the place that charges $1500.
                The HSAs actually AVOID, to an extent, the presence of the third partt payer.
                There is the issue of afforabilty you mentioned.
                We currently soend over $9,000 per capita on health care costs.
                That $9,000 annually for every man, woman,and child in the U.S. is a cost that “we can’t afford”.
                Yet it is paid.
                If “we can afford” paying huge subsidies for Obamacare premiums, we can afford to subsidize HSAs beyond the tax breaks.
                I think we both focus on the 3rd party payment system as a major cost driver….if patients are directly paying at least part of their bills out of THEIR HSA cash stash, that is a way of scaling back 3rd party involvement.
                Another way would be to completely eliminate ALL FORMS of insurance coverage, and those who can afford cash upfront get treated…obviously, that would cause a lot of problems.
                The HSAs are the ONLY way that I can think of to “wean” the system off of total reliance on 3rd party payment.
                Do you have an alternative to that?

                1. But there are so few people who can afford an HSA, that it isn’t going to “fix” the healthcare system. In fact, it would be reasonable if Bob’s MRI clinic discounts John’s MRI because John pays cash, that Bob will simply raise somebody on Medicare or health insurance up to make up the difference. That “price shifting” is already occurring. Which is why the anti-trust provisions need to be used.

                  The “fix” is going to entail a brief, but massive recession.

                  Squeeky Fromm
                  Girl Reporter

                  1. Squeeky
                    You are correct that there is cost shifting.
                    When Dr. Jonathan Gruber accidently got caught telling the truth, he admitted that Obamacare was primarily aboout cost shifting ( as far as payment for insurance premiums), not cost CONTAINMENT.
                    So the “average family will save $2500 a year under Obamacare” was bullsh** on the face of it, and Gruber “officially admitted that cost savings, comtaining health care costs, were not priorities.
                    It’s probably true that a recession helps to contain health care inflation….a depression would be much more effective.
                    As a matter of policy, I can’t see intentionally causing either as a sedirable way to contain health care costs.
                    If we agree that the massive interjection of third party payers has been, and is, a major cost driver……distorting transparency and discoiraging effifiency and competion…I think the question is “what is the best mechanism to scale back third party participation?”
                    If your primary objection to HSAs is that most can’t afford them, then we can continue to flood Medicaid roles and subaidized insurance policies because “people can’t afford ” insurance.
                    There is a saying that if you think health care costs are high now, wait till health care is “free”.

                    I mentioned the $9,000 + per capita U.S. costs that “we can’t afford” yet are being paid.
                    And mostly paid with involvement of third party payers.
                    If an additional “allowance”…that is, a government payment to encourage and boost HSAs….were available, the affordabilty issue would not be as big of a problem.
                    If someone is getting $5,000 on Obamacre subsidies to pay a $7,000 annual insurance premium, that individual should at least have a choice of a subsidized HSA.
                    The sole feature of Trump’s plan ( that I’ve seen to date) is to eliminate state barriers for insurance companies.
                    Interstate competion for insurers would creat SOME afditional competition re premiums.
                    The idea of HSAs is to REDUCE to role of third party payers, and reward more cost effient health care providers. So Trump’s plan barely scratches the surface, bit the HSA s actually can reduce third pary payers’ involvement.OME competion

                    1. The charge shifting was done a lot in the past. But started with Medicare. Their payments were the average of three factors. The average charged any Doctor, the average charged by doctors in the area, and the average Medicare decided to pay. Then liability insurance went up thanks to lack of tort reform and oversight primarily.

                      Pro Bono, medical work started to go out the window but there was that little known government rule that anyone and everyone entering a medical facility had to be treat and at least stabilized no matter ability to pay.

                      State Plans like Oregon’s came along and really put ripped the medical system as the free loaders arrived by the thousands but it used to be the Doc charged me $20 and others $10 and others zero for what now costs hundred of dollars. Never mind inflation and dollar devaluation like everyone has been forced to put up with.

                      Now I live in economy that provides excellent service at 40% of the cost of the USA and I can have seconde and third party insurance all day long and twice on Sundays. Remember the chanting mantra of the left wing fascists in the 90’s. “It’s nobodies business.” I’m protected by a real fence. The USA /Mexican border. from the real terrorists, the US Government.

                      One million USA expats and growing…..

                      Let’s hope Trump can do something…always hope the fat lady is still gargling and the mouth wash is 20% the cost of same in the USA.

                  2. Squeeky,
                    Medicare typically has a payment schedule on “allowable charges”.
                    If MRI provider A. charges $2,000 for a CAT Scan, and provder B” charges $1,000, then Medicare might “allow” an $800 payment to both..
                    Then,pay 80% of the $800 “allowable” charge.
                    So a MC patient has the ampunt billed on a statement, the allowable charge they’ve set, and then the 80% payment of that figure.

                    a absent part B supplements, a MC patient will,be looking at at least 3 differnet amoints on a statement, and trying to figure out what they actually owe.

          2. Another problem with HSA is for people close to retirement as it actually reduces what they will receive in Social Security. As always the working class stiff gets screwed over.

            1. Only if the law is written that way. You presume facts not in existence much less in evidence.

              1. again, you are assuming facts not made part of any final plan and therefore not in evidence. I noticed HSA but never a definition. i wonder how many are in the dark. The only plan I support is the Health Savings Plan, exempt from taxation as it saves the government money with a floor of some sort for example what if there is not enough in it and an early health problem develops. That plan is citizen owned and stays with them until death. What’s that got to do with Social Security? Health care is life long. Anything in the control of the government is an automatic deal breaker. So…..looking it up it’s a contrived name for another version with unacceptable features. One is limit on the amount that can be saved. Sounds like a good idea is being readied for a financial raid to me.

                “DEFINITION: A health savings account (HSA) is a tax-deductible savings account that’s used in conjunction with an HSA-qualified high-deductible health insurance plan (HDHP). … You can use the tax-free savings in your HSA to pay for doctor visits, hospital costs, deductibles, co-pays or prescription drugs.”

                I’m of course in favor of replacing Income Tax as it’s very very fascist in natue with an end user one time consumption tax which encourages government to improve the economy and market place in order to get their dole.

                I would look at a 5% minimum contribution to a Health Savings Plan and the same for a retirement plan with the upper end up to the employer and the employee. No income tax cuts out those inherent problems.

                I would look at one and one only deduction a Right To Life deduction on the amount of end user consumption tax paid monthly or annually. The idea there is Government has ZERO right to take from the citizen that which they need simply to survive or to live. Standard amount for adults and children nation wide and let the local governments add to if the area is extremely high cost of living.

                The final part is the end user tax split between local, state and federal and they all being required to live within their means or improve the ‘take’ as described above and banned from going into debt with two exceptions both listed first on the next year budget. War and Natural Disasters.

                The part I like about it besides controlling out of control government waste and spending is unlike Income Tax a end user tax gives control to the citizens where it belongs unlike the fascist income tax.


                1. Almost forgot one more item. No Funding No Mandate. Government wants something done at a lower level they pony up within the limits stated above or it is just a suggestion – at all levels.

              2. TNash (and Michael) I stand corrected. I was confusing HSAs with FSAs. Y’all are right.

      1. Squeeky,

        Eric, Mr. Google , his guy’s going to be on Trump’s team. Now Eric was on Clinton’s team but he’s changed over to the currently winning team. I hope you will be speaking out against this fascist and ask why he and other Clinton picks are getting on the Trump team. I’d call that smart for an oligarch but not smart for this nation or for Trump voters.

      1. The DNC is utterly corrupt and answers to corporations. And it looks like they will not be changing anytime soon judging from the DNC chair nominees.

  15. @Autumn

    Hey, if you are there! Or, any other Progressive-y types, or if you are Progressive-curious, there is this place where I find some pretty cool books, and they specialize in Progress stuff. And, they are pretty anti-GOP.

    Anyway, their e-books are $1.00 this week, although you can buy paper copies also. Here is their website:

    This is a really good deal. Now, a couple of their authors are pretty bizarre, and I am not going to name names or anything, but for a $1.00, what do you have to lose!

    “Blood Spatters Quickly” is great! It is a collection of Ed Wood stories, and those are pretty hard to come by. I won’t comment on any others, because some of you just need to read some new stuff!

    I think maybe Jill, swaddlemoremom, IsaacBaconSandwich and a few others here would really find some good stuff. They even have stuff like:

    I have been buying from them for like a year or so and have never had any problems.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. Thanks for the tip Squeeky!! One can never have enough books – and I love finding new authors outside the mainstream.

Comments are closed.