Ninth Circuit Deliberates Appeal Over Trump Executive Order


I previously discussed my surprise over the clumsy performance of the Justice Department in defending the Trump executive order on immigration.  Those concerns were magnified after the oral argument before the Ninth Circuit that was made available on YouTube.  The performance by August Flentje, special counsel to the assistant U.S. attorney general, was surprisingly lackluster and seemingly ill-prepared.  The shaky start that I described earlier seems now to be seismic as the Justice Department stumbles toward a ruling that can come as early as today.  As Flentje observed during his uninspired argument “I’m not sure I’m convincing the court.”

The questions by the panel seemed to largely favor the challengers though that can be a reflection of the highly favorable standard for the review of a temporary restraining order.  Nevertheless, Judge Richard Clifton, a George W. Bush appointee, expressed skepticism over the reference to this order as a “Muslim ban.”  He noted that the moratorium on entry from the seven targeted nations affected only 15% of the world’s Muslim population: “I have trouble understanding where we’re supposed to infer religious animus when in fact the vast majority of Muslims would not be affected.”

Nevertheless, as predicted, the  baffling statement of former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani that Trump wanted a “Muslim ban” were used by challengers.  Giuliani seriously undermined the order with his interview and is being credited by challengers as one of their greatest assets.  I do not believe that Giuliani’s ill-conceived comment should given much weight by the court but it was raised during the argument.

William Canby, a Carter appointee, and Judge Michelle Friedland, an Obama appointee, seemed to hammer the Administration harder with their questions — questions that the Administration failed to effectively answer despite their great predictability.  Friedland particularly pressed the Administration on its basis for picking these seven countries: a line of inquiry that many judges would view problematic if the court is viewed as second guessing such national security determinations.

Once again, I hope that Congress took note of the roughly 137,000 people who listened to the argument live and the many more listened on various television channels, — another example of why the public should be allowed to watch arguments remotely before appellate courts, including the United States Supreme Court.

If the questions are a reflection of the direction of the panel, it would seem most likely that the panel will refuse to overturn Judge Robart and likely send the case back for a final determination and opinion.  The Justice Department would then go to the Supreme Court but Gorsuch may not be on the Court when the petition comes before it.  That would leave the current eight-member Court unless the confirmation is moved forward with dispatch.

273 thoughts on “Ninth Circuit Deliberates Appeal Over Trump Executive Order”

  1. It’s shifted back to the lower courts which must means the States themselves? And all in separate States which splits Minnesota and Washington. The Attorney handling the federal executive branch end requested a slow down for more preparation Judge refused April 3rd for all the paperwork. Now if I remember right arouond that time Gorusch will be sworn in or a bit later.

    The time frame was several weeks two weeks ago and several means four to seven. Hmmmm Then it can go to SCOTUS!! The President is leading them around by their tweets and they don’t even realize they are being rolled. Maybe they do but they can’t do anything about it.

    End result is everything gets dragged through the legal nutzo filters they tip their hand on evrerything in pretrial etc. and we get a clean document for SCOTUS to examine and a cleaned up immigration system. Depending on SCOTUS that could be as soon as DAMN the original 90 day temporary ban.

    Meanwhile vetting the vetters and so forth go on and then there’s Phase II with the countries that have furnished terrorists to the USA and DO have central records systems.

    Wonder what the snowflakes are going to do then. Spring melt is coming better hurry!

    1. Meanwhile college snowflakes fearing the spring meltdown are wearing white pins to show their support of the left wing fascist extremist white ID leadership of the DNC. Sparked no doubt but Schumer and Pelosi in that hate speech photo op of a few days ago.

      Think their multi hued college comrades will allow that to pass un-noticed?

      No telling depends on their programmers.

  2. The Trump Regime uses convoluted verbiage. Let’s say that the X. O. is directed at countries with a 90-95% majority of Muslims. When they suggest that minority religions would have a priority on entry, that (means Eastern-Rite Christians, a few Jews and “Other”. Therefore Muslims would be discriminated against since, on a range of priorities, they would be dead last!

    1. As opposed the very open bigotry exhibited by the Obama regime which allowed 50,000 plus Muslims though some were/are Islamics into the USA while the minorities being persecuted and subjected to acts of Genocide were denied but for about 55 best we can tell. Those included Druze,Armenian Yizadi, Bahai, Jewish, and beyond that Kurdish Muslims.

      But cheekos conveniently forgets that and forgets the constant outcry from the humanitarian aid community and apparently forgot for the benefit of the press the vetting had already been done by the State Department but no one knows how since there were no records etc. on which to base any vetting.

      Unitil it was convenient it wasn’t mentioned while the Immigration and FBI stated we can’t vet without records.

      Therefore the Obama regime discriminated against real refugees from genocide and that continued until the complaints were answered by President Trumps efforts and some at least were finally afforded sanctuary…

      Never mind the non existent mass graves in Kosovo and the ignoring of the multiple mass graves in Iraq.

      The only thing convoluted is the racist bigotry of the party of slavery … the one’s who denied sancturary to Jews and Italians in WWII trying to escape Obama’s Butt Brothers the nationalist socialists.

      Bight ME Mustafa. or whatever your name is.

  3. Just heard on a news tease that a judge on the 9th has asked for en banc review. That would mean 11? I am not a lawyer so I don’t fully understand what it might mean that this comes from within the 9th.

    1. Frisco:
      It means the parents are home and the three kiddies are in for a talking to or that rest of the en band panel wants to provide some cover for the three kiddies from grandparents in DC. En band means the court as a whole instead of just three justices, The “Never In Doubt Ninth” is so big ( 29 judges) they divided up into 3 en band panels instead of one.

        1. “…or that rest of the en band panel wants to provide some cover”
          Perhaps, Mark, the spell checker was correct–from a different perspective:

      1. “It means the parents are home and the three kiddies are in for a talking to or that rest of the en band panel wants to provide some cover for the three kiddies…”

        Thank you, that is what I hoped it might mean.

  4. My guess is those ninth circuit clowns are running scared of being cut into three pieces and are secretly helping the administration to protect their own turf.

      1. I was offered a job once writing for one of those outfits……who knows had I not got the message two days after the ship left port…. is that opportunities past in the night ….or what? Which reminds me I just snagged off of a trade shelf Will Rodges Biography so I opened it to whatever page and will share the following.

        “I addressed the California Legislature to help them pass a bill to form a lawyers’s association to regulate their conduct.

        Personally I don’t think you can make a lawyer honest through legislation…you have to work on his conscience and it’ s his lack of conscience that makes him a lawyer.”

        Seem to fit the blog rather well.

        Very few met those standards of writing. Rogers, Twain, and Mencken. Twain’s quote on the subject (Samuel Clemens to the illiterates out there) was something along the lines of ‘Congress is America’s only true home grown crimininal class.’ Mencken, “A Judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers.’

        Several cities and counties caving
        in face of Trump’s funding threats

        The mid afternoon headlines. Several meaning 4 t 7 so far and growing Big cities it was noted are standing firm ( and presumably are going to replace lost federal support with increased taxes. I noted all of them mentioned in that category having a recall privilege…heh heh heh

      3. Three or four former entertainment majors decide not to visit White House and state they don’t feel welcome? Why? They were passed over for Hamiliton and had to settle for NFL or. perhaps their ‘papers are not in order? Or because third string understudes do not get recognition any other way. Or no scrotes?

        Just one of the many segments that make up Hollyweed…

  5. I have actually filed appellate briefs in the 9th, and they basically spit on your face. The AG who filed this brief is playing Trump. He is the one who requested a phone hearing instead of asking for oral arguments, where he could have filed preheating motions to exclude evidence like how many arrests etc. in asking for a phone hearing, he opened up the door for the judges to ask anything they like and consider any and all evidence. It’s a point of law, but it wouldn’t matter, because it’s the 9th. The clerks are on the take, and they send back form denials. I caught the Federal clerks changing rulings and purging the docket of unwanted and embarrassing pleadings. If you compare the size of the ninth with the east coast districts, it’s ridiculous anyway. Just a bunch of communists with law degrees, exactly what Congress warned about in 1959:

    1. “I caught the Federal clerks changing rulings and purging the docket of unwanted and embarrassing pleadings.”

      Did you file a formal complaint with the Court of Appeals or notify the US Attorney’s office of this criminal allegation? If not, what did you do?

    2. I listened to the audio of the oral arguments, and was shocked by the way the 3 judges kept eating up the government’s 1/2 hour with argumentative question interruptions. The litigants should be given a block of uninterrupted time to proffer their arguments, followed by Q/A. The format used gives the judges the power to filibuster and harass a disfavored litigant. I couldn’t believe the Court gets away with such process chicanery.

        1. Steve, You mean like when only one side of an argument is presented, sound?

          IMHO, it is wrong for the court to ignore over 200 years of precedent with even acknowledging it. It may have hurt their position, but to not bring it to light and overcome it, based on some alternative accepted doctrine or theory, is highly problematic. It serves to demonstrate why the Ninth is overturned so often.

          1. Jack, I’ll put it this way: in terms of the motion for an emergency stay, I’m not so sure the en banc 9th or the Supreme Court will even take up the matter, and the government may not even ask.

            The panel clearly indicated that the merits of this case were not being reviewed de novo, and your argument for 200 years of precedent, if valid, goes to a small portion of this EO, which is not (or if it is, it’s a minuscule part of) the harm being alleged by the States of Washington and Minnesota.

            And correct me if I’m wrong, did the government even request a partial stay of the injunction were the court to decide that EO was indeed enforceable against persons from those seven countries who have never been in the US?

            1. “did the government even request a partial stay of the injunction”?

              Yes, they did ask the court to narrow the application of the order.

              If Iran launched a missile at us today, do you think the President would be justified in immediately blocking all entry into the United States from Iran?

              Do you think it possible that Washington and Minnesota would be harmed by those people not being permitted entry? (I went with Iran, but we could pick any Nation State and apply the same question.)

              Do you think the Chinese Exclusion Act harmed businesses and even states that were trying to build railroads? Do you think any citizens or LPRs were harmed by the Chinese Exclusion Act? – The answer to all of these questions must be “YES”. The only logical conclusion is that national security is paramount to the protection of the nation. It’s a matter for Congress and the Executive, not the courts.

              1. “If Iran launched a missile at us today, do you think the President would be justified in immediately blocking all entry into the United States from Iran?” Yes, if it was the State of Iran and not the CIA or bozos like Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

                “Do you think it possible that Washington and Minnesota would be harmed by those people not being permitted entry? (I went with Iran, but we could pick any Nation State and apply the same question.)” It would depend on whether there was some connection, such as an Iranian student who’d applied and been accepted to a school in either State, or a business transaction between one of the States or a resident of one of the States and someone or some business in Iran, etc., but it should take an act of aggression by the State of Iran and not the CIA or bozos like Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

                “Do you think the Chinese Exclusion Act harmed businesses and even states that were trying to build railroads? Do you think any citizens or LPRs were harmed by the Chinese Exclusion Act? – The answer to all of these questions must be “YES”. The only logical conclusion is that national security is paramount to the protection of the nation. It’s a matter for Congress and the Executive, not the courts.” You’re barking up the wrong tree here. Banning Chinese is sort of like treating African Americans like chattel: it was a bunch of rich guys in cahoots and the folks who supported them not being worried about little things like humanity and using what was then considered not-so-barbaric means, so long as the deal went through. We don’t consider that legal anymore, unless you’re Scalia. Unfortunately, that’s what Trump and the mighty white would favor, especially with regard to the Latinos that he so graciously allows to clean his toilet bowl and gilded faucets.

                1. Barking up the wrong tree or not, the Chinese Exclusion Act was challenged in court and found to be lawful.

                  So, you’ll support a ban with an act of egression. Do we have to wait until we are actually attacked (failed or not) before we can ban them? (Please support your answer.)

                  Do you think the District Court Judge has sufficient knowledge of national security considerations to second guess the executive? If so, based on what knowledge?

                  One of the greatest problems we face when dealing with non-state actor terrorism is that it takes broad action to address a narrow problem. However, national security must always trump state or individual interests.

                    1. Trial judge should have been informed of the national security implications, not just an allegation. No autocrats in business attire allowed.

              2. Jack – the Chinese Exclusionary Act was passed because the Transcontinental Railroad had been completed and California thought it had too many Chinese. They will later be responsible for putting the Japanese in internment camps during WWII.

                1. Obama beat you to it on intra USA travel banning airlines flights for anyone in five states without an approved national ID card. The little gold chips in your drivers license and bank cards? Number two the student studying in where? Yemen? Somalia? In what a sharia school but never mind. Under your description would not have been one of the 109 temporarily detained so strike that one. Any other and just to stick this one in somewhere any Judge that didn’t know this whad national security implications should be be impeached for stupidity and convicted for being brainless.

    3. Good insight, Sherry, and consistent with my opinion that the game was thrown. I thought the court’s tone at the hearing was too combative with an opinion already written against the government’s position, if only a mental one, and that our advocate wished he were somewhere else that day. There is a reason that the “Never-In-Doubt Ninth” is overturned a staggering 83.3% of the time.

      1. And yet Trump might come to his senses and write a new EO that passes constitutional muster.

        1. The original one did pass constitutional muster. The 9th circuit decision is humbug.

        2. Joe-

          Do you think that his next EO will require all of the “undesirable” aliens he wants to deport from the US to work at Nordstrom’s while they are waiting to be deported?

          1. Nice Try….NOT! You people really are running scared and running stupid or whoever programs you.. .or something.

        3. That is the plan dipwad to make up for time lost by the left wing suipporters of such nonesense.

  6. It’s already been expunged probable cause, habeas corpus and all that.. Read the Patriot Act. What are they bitching about they voted for it on numerous occasions since 9/11. Don’t they read what they are voting on??? Stupid question.

  7. Here’s how one US President faced with a national security crisis and a judge determined to trespass in that area handled the situation:

    “The Ohio resolutions asked what would happen if action was taken to “expunge from the constitution this limitation upon the power of Congress to suspend the writ of habeas corpus.” Said the President, after saying that the suspension clause was “improperly called, as I think, a limitation on Congress,” and noting that the clause authorized suspension if the public safety required it in times of rebellion, continued: “You ask … whether I really claim that I may override all the guarantied rights of individuals, on the plea of conserving the public safety—when I may choose to say the public safety requires it. This question, divested of the phraseology calculated to represent me as struggling for an arbitrary personal prerogative, is either simply a question who shall decide, or an affirmation that nobody shall decide, what the public safety does require, in cases of rebellion or invasion. The constitution contemplates the question as likely to occur for decision, but it does not expressly declare who is to decide it. By necessary implication, when rebellion or invasion comes, the decision is to be made, from time to time; and I think the man whom, for the time, the people have, under the constitution, made the commander-in-chief, of their Army and Navy, is the man who holds the power….”
    ~ Abraham Lincoln

    As any lawyer knows, Lincoln ignored Taney’s decision holding that only Congress could suspend habeas corpus in the case of Ex Parte Merryman. Congress agreed with Lincoln passing legislation two years later authorizing him to act as he did.

  8. Pretty sad, I mean Sad to attack a Federal Judge whose own sister is a Federal Judge in NJ. Yes, appointed to the Bench by RWR and moved up to the Appeals Court for NJ Federal Court by Clinton.

    1. Trumps sister is a federal judge what makes Judges so special or sacrosanct? Manyi don’t understand in a jury trial the jury IS the judge.

  9. Now, we see how they ruled. My advice for the Trump Admin for the future is this:

    If a low level district judge grants a stay that is for the entire nation, then the new AG, Sessions, ought to immediately file appeals simultaneously in all circuit courts of appeal. Not all the circuits were stacked with Obama’s leftist lackeys.

    How long are the American people going to endure judicial tyranny?!

        1. So now what would have been is an argument?

          ” . . . if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t.”

          I had no idea you were an oracle, Mespo.

          1. No but he speaks the language of no language quite well and is making an example. I borrowed a phrase from Bruce Lee who by the way would be 76 had he lived.

              1. Bruce Lee system was called he Way Of No Way which left him free to attack, defend, confuse, project in any manner or style he chose at the time. To tie that together those who speak or write the exact same way are unable to react and thus are easier to control. PC is a good example of that sort of stilted nonsense as iis a great amont of tweet which like definitions of left/right or liberal and conservative or Democrat Republican are quite useless. As mespo demonstrated.

                It helps to have a literate command of the language including some of it’s forms and other languages as well and grammar especially. Recently I destroyed a Professor at Princeton PhD in sociology who was claiming the following had been forged by adding a period. ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happines. — etc.’ Daniels something or another yet this PhD had written a book and been on many talk shows and given paid lectures stating that the period was forged and if it was absent changed the meaning of the Declaration of Independence (a mission statement) which automatically changed the meaning of a legal document namely the Constitution.

                Professor Dummy no great shakes in the literacy department failed to follow up on her theory with some easily obtained proofs. Like the English Department or the Political Science Department or the history Deparrtment at Princeton? Hell philosophy would probably have had the information.

                So I looked at it, nodded yes I know what that is but to be sure did a quick google on grammar and sure enough….the period was the end of sentence and the — two dashes were disambiguation marks as opposed to a single – or a comma which have different functions.

                One doesn’t have to get that pedantic but in this case she went on to promote her false premise with a bunch of other BS in another area where she had no talent.

                Thus….. and dyslectic keyboards aside using the Way of No Way really means stay flexible and be cognizant of the penchant for errors that make a statement say somthing other than intended or using the reverse the way of all ways. Being largely programmed parts of a singular collective liberals are easy targets as you have no doubt learned.

                Caution. I wouldn’t try this in another language no matter how little of it I spoke. Some things don’t translate well and already have an equivalent phrase. BS and Frijoles some how comes to mind.

                Short Version. Mespo set you up and let you do the rest of it .

                ‘The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese’ Grasshopper!

                Shumer and company have yet to find that out and….as a result…..keep stepping in frijoles of their own making. Huele MAL!

                1. “Mespo set you up and let you do the rest of it .”

                  That’s funny, as Mespo responded to a comment I made to larryzb.

                  Let Mespo speak for himself, he’s very capable.

                  Your tantrum, on the other hand, leaves one wondering.

                  1. Do you understand the difference between the straight man and the one that delivers the punch line?

                    Now do you understand?

                    Keep your eye on the cheese and the other mice

                    1. “Do you understand the difference between the straight man and the one that delivers the punch line?

                      Now do you understand?”

                      Oh, I understand. Thank you for your lucid insight.

                    2. Sometimes a gentle well meant hint sort of a a haruumph cough and sidelong glance engenders a learning experience. Pro Bono

                1. I’m not looking for a trail, Paul, and if I was, you would be the last person I would trail behind.

                  1. Jose – it is true, I not only march to my own drummer, I have a whole damn band.

            1. “I borrowed a phrase from Bruce Lee who by the way would be 76 had he lived.”

              I’m so happy for you, well done!

        2. I’m sorry, but I forgot to reference the quote I provided — it was Tweedledee.

          1. ‘Here’s another fine mess you’ve got me into ……’ what came next?

              1. I noticed 1200 of whom 800 were lawyers are prepared to pro bono any problems at O’Hare alone. What does that add up to in terms of lost end of year bonuses. About time they started working for something useful and helping President Trump get the Immigration Swamp cleaned up. Who would have thunk it.

                1. “What does that add up to in terms of lost end of year bonuses.”

                  Whose bonuses? I doubt it yours.

                  1. Of course not. I’m no corporate lawyer. How many of the 1,000 an hour guys are on airport duty? Is it billable hours? If not they still have their 80 a week to pony up.

                    1. Get some sleep. Then look at the blue sky tomorrow when you wake up. It might do you good.

                    2. No problem there. Life is going so well especially in Washinhgton DC one can almost envision the old posters. Sleep well tonight your Constitution is on the alert.

                    3. The Senate votes to confirm Rep. Tom Price, R-Ga., as Health and Human Services Secretary in a 52-47 vote. Price will likely be tasked to lead the GOP effort to repeal and replace Obamacare.

                      speaking of blue skies….another one bites the dust while Shumer was sleeping….

            1. No you haven’t, Mespo. And I doubt you’ve been to Delphi. Stop the quips.

              Go back to this:

              “No, it just would have been.”


              And justify that statement from a point of reason, given you don’t know what would have been.

              You can’t.

              Babble on with your obfuscations all you want, but it is obvious that your statement is one unsupported by facts.

              1. I have been to Athens and Delphi — Athens twice. I’ll meet you at Six D.o.g.s sometimes to show you pictures. You can search the archives here on the blog starting about 2008 and see my quotes and articles which discuss Alice and her encounters with knaves and buffoons like you. Just because you walked on stage during Act 2 doesn’t mean the play started then.

                1. I know your history here, Mespo.

                  Just to pull a trump card I’ve been to Athens at least six times, maybe eight, because I lived very close for many years. So what?

                  I haven’t just walked on the stage during Act 2.

                  Again, go back to this:

                  “No, it just would have been.”


                  And justify that statement from a point of reason, given you don’t know what would have been.

                  You slide like s**t in a flood. Silent for years, now impugning others with your new found compass based on the backslapping of the current commentators that laugh at the very education you possess?

                  What a short-sighted fool you are.

      1. Fifteen plus one SCOTUS on the federal list the other 103 must be in the rogue 4th branch of government.

    1. How about just ignoring the stay? Why should a federal district judge in Seattle be obeyed in New York?

    2. Nnoted the question not being asked by the snowflake media is What Did the Democrats – AKA left wing fascists – know and when did THEY do it. So far all their bitching about is their own mistakes, errors, ommissions etc. ad infinitum. All that stuff didn’t spring out of nowhere on the 20th with a warning about it on the 21st and a show of great concern on the 22nd.

      1. Michael, what about an ex-general who contacts the Russian Ambassador about Obama’s sanctions, presumably to tell him the incoming administration won’t enforce them. Do you see a problem with this? It’s so Nixonian.

        1. Yes and apparrently after the real not the media investigation was concluded he was fired for lying about it. Which is fine with me. You forget I come down hard on such activities from a different and more advantageous vantage point (like that) in the moderate center and count the left as starting with the RINOs going on out to extremist land) Try it . It works

          Center is Constitution naturally

          To the left (and historically correct) is Government Over Citizens. regardless of party affiliation etc.

          I don’t mind that if they have at least one foot in the center and that one violated his oath of offce. Sad but apparently true.

          Want to here abut the history of the right before and after the left manufactured their own false version? to sum it up i’s

          Citizens over Government. short version.

          Unworkable systems are looney tunes so I rejected them out of hand did some research and bingo I have a better slide rule than you do.

          1. Michael, do you think Flynn contacted the Russian Ambassador without having spoken with Trump first?

            It seems to me that there’s a connection there, and you’ve mentioned you come down hard on this sort of thing. Why no mention of Trump’s role in this?

            When the President sanctions, the sanctioned party-state is the enemy. Flynn and very likely Trump aided that enemy. Over the past decade and a half, you conservatives have thrown around the word “traitor” as if it were a hacky sack. Why not now, considering you make an effort to appear equitably bilateral in your criticisms?

            1. Couldn’t tell you not being one of the investigators from NSA. That stuff is classified information and if one did have access and did quote there is this technique where each possible leaker gets a little bit different version. Whichever shows up here is the culprit.

              Now that would be worth reading about.

              By now i’m sure there are a number of those traps floating around the blabbermouth set of Washington DC.

              1. Michael: Your inferential powers are so strong most of the time. I can’t imagine why you’re not more persuaded of the plan and motive with the facts as they have already been disclosed.

                1. I could but in this case I keep wondering is it real or is it a trap to catch leakers? The amount of information is very very sparse with not much verification other than spurious sources.

                  Yes we’ve seen Generals fall before and 24 years in the service taught me the ‘will not lie, cheat, steal nor tolerate those that do’ set is far outweighed by those who routinely strongarm and blackmail troops for donations to this and that just to get those 100% sigtns on the company lawn. That translates far too often into phony test scores on physical fitness tests and marksmanship qualifications using the Lead 1.1 device.

                  By and large I would take the word of a military leader over any member of congress for example but they aren’t perfect.

                  However …..this one seemed a touch too contrived given the initial sources which are even more prone to fudging figures and printing made up stories.For sure there is something missing which is being with held by someone for some reason and the rush to judgement back up my BS meter’s warning buzzer.

                  I’lll wait …..

                  How much of a warning buzz. The same reading Yellen’s BS on items like unemployment which when the actual formula is applied back to it’s base start point show. 85.6. and so does her COLA numbers. Figures scan lie and there is two areas where liars can figure and that may include anything beyond fibbing to the boss. The rest of it? I would look in the editing offices of the media for starters.

                  1. “That translates far too often into phony test scores on physical fitness.” Too funny.

                    I had a roommate in the Marine Corps who contracted with his fat-arsed staff sergeant/supervisor to do a PFT in his place and was awarded his corporal stripe for the effort. And you know what? That roommate retired a master sergeant. I saw him a while back and he’s still the same. He never grew up.

                    Not that I didn’t do anything I’d rather not talk about, but it’s all a big joke to some. Think Trump’s not a joker?

                    1. 1. He was hired because he was and is a joker in a deck of marked cards that’s for sure
                      2. He’s not above setting them up (media,DNC, ‘official’ Washington) and they are arrogant enough to bite
                      3. In this case my mind asks WHO is taking advantage of a limited quality crisis to stick it to whom?
                      4. Each time they play stupid they lose more and more credibilty and President Trump moves faster to the goals stated. Shumer has possibly burned himself enough i haven’t seen any of his usual idiotic pronouncements in the last few days (don’t hold your breath) but Pelosillyni is living up to her name. Life without a purpose is after all her legacy and all she’s got left. Not even a good book or speaking tour contract.

                    2. Pushing midnight and more has come to light and it maybe ugly but it isn’t pretty. The sum total is is not only are the Demcorats shattered and fragmented but the Republicans who claimed full winnership – failing to recognize who got it for them also failed to face reality. Republicans did a good job down ballot – that was it. At the top they abandoned their own candidate who is now the titular head of whatever he wants to make of it while maintaining a straight up learning curve on the dangers of politics and politicians.

                      Republicans are in at least two camps the RINOs and the Non Rinos’s or Constitutinalists. Puts them ahead of the Democrats by a long way philosophically and they hold two other cards. The huge win under their name across the country with total control in Washington DC at the federal level and the ability to meld together the two parts. Something the Democrats have known of with their few running scared for re-electiion in 2018 members already looking hard at the new Independent Democrats Council. That group is already making overtures to the Constitutional Republic Camp for a coalition.

                      But therein lies my earlier hesitation as the RINOs are still active and working to wrest control of the prize from the group that brought them to the dance. The many small groups who all favored ditching the left and voting a.against Clinton,b against the Socialists left or Democrats and c the RINO group.

                      RINOs like secular regressives have failed to learn that lesson. But the counter revolution still exists. Quietly remaining the most powerful voting block in the country with their new converts.

                      Most of us don’t know each other but we have much common ground and share ideas. It’s the old one cell doesn’t know the other setup

                      Late this evening I saw more and more comments in the news begin to face the inevitable and inescapable re-cognition and begin to turn away from denial except in the secular regressive extremists like Shumer and Pelosi who can’t even admit their true base philosophy and political system.

                      However Flynn turns, and Chaffetz of Utah put it best the hunt is in progress for the regressives in a number of camps. RINO to DINO.

                      In summation it doesn’t matter who did what when and why. The perpetrators were all from left of center.

                      RINO to DINO

                    3. Whatever else it seems to be breaking up the left wing log jam with a bunch of confirmations and one at 100-0. But events have also put a full court criminal investigation operation in operation involving more than one or two agencies and some of them tying back into the still ongoing Clinton investigations. Time for the rats to start jumping ship and turning states evidence

                      The one that disturbs me as overkill is the forced withdrawal of the labor secretary who at least a firm grasp of economics and a clear view of the damage a forced $15 minimum will cause to any hopes of economic recovery – all for a few votes.

                      Of all the history cited this one was different. Candidate admitted openly and immediately he had, in the past, found his families long time housekeep was illegal. He took the following steps. One reported same to IRS and paid whatever they deteremined was back taxes and fines. Second reported same to Immigration and offered to immediately and unconditionally act as a legal sponsor. After their (Immigratioin) investigation theiy ruled in favor.. As the employer he did not duck the issue, did not lie about it, and took steps that might well have cost him his career.

                      Yet he was the only one forced out of the running by supporters of the $15 minimum movement. RINOs and DINOs alike.

                      So we’ve uncovered a few more targets for 2018 and 2020 elections namely the last remaining in bed with the Socialists as the right wing of the left.

                      And this time No Hillary and no Socialist Democrats to get in the way of cleaning house in the Houses of Congress.

                      They may or may not have saved a few votes from the pro $15 crowd but this will cost them their careers.via the pulled support from the moderate centrists who were the real winners last Nov 8th. Party Hack chairs should keep this in mind. We play no favorites. Anyone anti-constitutional who supports the socialist dogma is fair game, no limit, open season.


                    4. By the way Steve thanks for being the conduit. Steve is not a member of the moderate centrists but THIS is how we keep in contact and a fine system it is!

                    5. So? Who really is behind the intell community and leaking etc etc etc.

                      Well the left had eight years to plant their moles.

                      The implosion of the intell community would be in line with the goals of the left in supporting their butt buddies in the seven plus other countries.

                      It’ smacks of Carter releasing the names of al the human intelligence agents back when he was working directly against the interests fo the country.

                      Deja Vu

                      No wonder Shumer is grinning off camera when he isn’t shedding phony weepers. Comrade Schumer is probably the primary Control to my way of thinking.

                    6. What are the socialists (and McCain) going to do when the Republicans don’t take the congressional break but stay in session. Still 51 and no worries about tie votes.

                  2. Zipping back to the new entries in my Forum hopper I see Bullard from the St. Louis Fed very politely backed up what I said about Yellens reading of unemploymet and inflation. I’m using that as a present example of how things get distorted when they are coming from government sources.

                    Bullen was very cautious on and did not endorse Yellens figures nor wish to have a three time’s rate increase and gave good reasons.

                    Tying that back to Flynn the chances of something as simple as a personal screw up on one item being stretched into something else on everything else is far to great to allow any credence. They cry wolf about everything and have yet to produce much of anything. except the obvious disdain and lack of interest in the general welfare and interests of the nation…speaking of the media and the DNC at this point. President’s been leading them around by the nose for six plus months now.

                    It appears to be never let a good crisis go to waste even if you have to manufacture a crisis which isn’t one and therefore is neither good nor accurate. Remember these are people who can’t do basic addition and subtraction much less percentages or apply them to the correct issue.

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