Bizarre, Politics, Religion

Finding Meaning In Madness: Clinton Blames NRA While Robertson Cites Disrespect For Trump

Hillary_Clinton_Testimony_to_House_Select_Committee_on_BenghaziAs is often the case, politicians and commentators were fast to draw political meaning from the latest massacre.  Of course, the most obvious explanation is that this was an attack by a demented and hateful individual.  At the base of this massacre seems utter madness — untractable and unfanthomable madness.  However, after saying that this was no time for politics, Hillary Clinton immediately denounced the National Rifle Association.  At the same time, televangelist Pat Robertson cited the disrespect for Trump and our flag.

 

After 58 people were killed and 515 were injured late Sunday night, Clinton went to Twitter to denounce the NRA: “The crowd fled at the sound of gunshots. Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a silencer, which the NRA wants to make easier to get.”  She added “Our grief isn’t enough. We can and must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA, and work together to try to stop this from happening again.”

The odd thing about the tweet is that the weapon being used by Stephen Paddock, 64, is believed to be a fully automatic machine gun.  It has been illegal since owning any fully automatic weapons since May 19, 1986 (unless it was grandfathered in) If this was a fully automatic weapon, it was likely already illegal.  Moreover, the suggestion that more would have been killed it a silencer was used is rather implausible.  Putting aside the sound even with a silencer, there is the sound of the victims being hit and crowd panicking.  A person may not actually hear the gun shots but would certainly see dozens of people being hit and a crowd stampeding.  The suggestion is that somehow a couple dozen people might be hit but not many people take note of the falling bodies.

Over at the The 700 Club, Pat Robertson had his own taken:

“Violence in the streets, ladies and gentlemen. Why is it happening? The fact that we have disrespect for authority; there is profound disrespect for our president, all across this nation they say terrible things about him. It’s in the news, it’s in other places. There is disrespect now for our national anthem, disrespect for our veterans, disrespect for the institutions of our government, disrespect for the court system. All the way up and down the line, disrespect.”

Once again, Paddock appears to be an unhinged lunatic who carried out his fantasy of hate and death.  I have as skeptical of the influence of anti-Trump comments as I am the relevance of silencer rules to this massacre.  It appears to be profound hate, not profound disrespect, that put Paddock in that room. In the end, there may be no “message” to an act of senseless savagery.

150 thoughts on “Finding Meaning In Madness: Clinton Blames NRA While Robertson Cites Disrespect For Trump”

  1. Latest definition of a well-regulated militia: man with a clear plan and almost 50 assault weapons, far up in a high-rise, methodically kills/injures 600 people hundreds of yards below.

    The GOP has its collective head so far up the …… of the lobbying arm of the weapons industry, the NRA, that its collective brain has turned to ………

    Karma’s gonna get ’em. And well deserved it will be.

    Good day.

  2. Pingback: Prayer isn’t stopping the violence – Scripturient

  3. Perhaps it’s just me but I have a very difficult time taking gun control advocates seriously if they support abortion on demand.

    1. It makes perfect sense if you realize that their sentiments on those issues are derived from their habits and hobbies.

    2. Just as I have trouble with people who claim to be pro-life on abortion but support the death penalty. I think hypocrisy is pretty much sewn into human nature. Me, too.

      1. Embryos/fetuses/unborn babies did not commit a crime worthy of capital punishment.

        A malfunctioning electric chair would be too good for that monster of man.

      2. Those that commit capital crimes are violating known laws that have known penalties. Unborn children are absolutely innocent of any crime. To try and equate the two demonstrates a level of depravity that is the worst of human nature.

    1. You live in a fairy tale. Gun control just ensures the people who shouldn’t have them will have them. And I am not comfortable with giving gun control to an organization that kills at will around the world.

      2. Actually, don’t live in a fair tale. Although it is not too late, I have little hope that anything will change due to the power of the gun lobby.

    1. frankly lives by the alt left motto, “Never let a good tragedy go to waste.” The Hillbots were activated by Lady Macbeth’s tweet.

      1. Been for gun restriction before I ever heard of Hillary Clinton. Too bad you cannot see the damage the NRA lobby is causing to this country.

        1. The guns were ILLEGAL! Have you commented on the CBS executive thread?

          1. Nick – this is some time ago, but they were only listing the number of weapons found in the room. Are they now saying they are illegal and he changed them or he bought them that way?

            1. He legally purchased semi-automatic refiles, then illegally modified them to make them full-automatic.

        2. Guns may be easy. But isn’t there gun control in Chicago? I am not sure. If this enraged individual was willing to kill, he probably could have made a fertilizer-type bomb with similar effort. Or worse. Maybe you’ll want to do “pre-crime” control. Concept is getting popular again.

          Personally, I wouldn’t go to a public event in Las Vegas, where people routinely destroy their lives at casinos. Casinos thrive on “people on the edge,” and that seems to point to all types of “edges.” When they lose it all, all that anger at themselves will go somewhere. Sometimes it’s big, sometimes it’s small. This time big.

          So, would you regulate gambling? Could you regulate gambling? That’s a tough one, since states make a mint off of gambling, and market it to those who really can’t afford it.

          But it’s a lazy man’s argument (cowardly?) to just hand over control for safety and security to a benevolent force. Like Hillary Clinton. Although Muammar Gaddafi might disagree with you on that point.

          I’ll choose personal responsibility over more government help. Don’t need more short-sighted planning and regulation.

          1. Chicago has among the strictest gun control laws in the country. It makes not a whit of difference.

            1. It might make a difference.

              The real problem in Chicago is that the police do not believe the politicians have their back, so they do the minimum in the city’s slum neighborhoods. They’re as well staffed in context as New York’s police, with dramatically different results. Thanks, Rahm!

              1. Your response was posted before I completed my post, and it does extend the conversation. And it brings up a more troubling deeper issue. Yet, it does have impact on the question, “If gun control is the answer to gun violence, how is it there is so much gun violence in Chicago?

                First answer is that the gun control law is not strictly enforced. My question is how can you honestly keep the willing from obtaining one. I can literally have a handgun in route to me in five minutes. That’s in MD though.

            2. “Chicago has among the strictest gun control laws in the country.”

              Thanks for clarifying that. This helps highlight another example of a lazy argument from the left. Problems are seldom solved with knee-jerk narcissistic self-acknowledgment. “I KNOW the answer, and it must be ‘A.’ Be quiet plebs.”

              How about an “if-then,” instead of “I must know…?”

              OK: “If gun control is the answer to gun violence, how is it there is so much gun violence in Chicago?”

              You’ll notice I ask a question. Now I wait to be belittled again by the left-leaning folk here. Can stating a question be a leftist trigger? Just curious.

              1. The answer is law enforcement for the maintenance of public order. State law which regulates weapons possession can be a component of that, but it cannot substitute for that. Leftoids have no answers to the problem with street crime in this country because all effective responses they deem unacceptable a priori. Ergo, you have these ‘look squirrel’ discussions over firearmes.

        3. Too bad that you can’t live in a lower income black neighborhood without a gun in the house. Oh, and not in a gated community in that neighborhood. Just a regular little house without iron security bars even.

          That might change your thinking.

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

      2. You NRA bots will defend them to the bitter end. They do give big money to your candidates.

  7. If the NRA was there they would have shot back and stopped the carnage. Roper dopers need love too. It’s up against the wall Redneck mothers.

  8. Whatever happened to the days when politicians and other public figures would just say, “No comment.”

    I miss those times at moments like this.

    1. Especially with Clinton. My, G*d, can’t she just go away and focus on her grandkids?!

      1. I wish, but . . . she may be addicted to the fray and going through withdrawal.

  9. Is the hotel-casino, Mandalay Bay Resort in legal trouble? It’s owned by MGM.

    Las Vegas also has strict concealed carry regulations. The Mandalay Bay Hotel, where the gunman was, has a strict no weapons policy. A Gun-Free-Zone.

    What kind of security did this hotel have? There’s always something going on, drug trafficking, gun running, prostitution & that’s besides the shows & gambling.

    Sue MGM & have them pay for the funeral costs.

    1. Jerry – MGM stock dropped 5% yesterday, stocks of other casinos dropped 1 or 2%. Expect them to take a big financial hit. Still, this is not NYC where people get onto buses to pretend to be passengers injured in bus accidents. In the West, people are injured and they sue or they don’t sue, depending on how they feel. Some will feel it is not Mandalay Bay’s fault and will not go after them, some will sue them to the hit. Of course, those who lost loved ones will want recompense. If MGM is smart, their attorneys are contacting the families as we speak and making payoff arrangements for funerals, etc. This will buy them goodwill, which will help with any settlements.

    2. The sheriff out there praised MGM security. He said they were able to “triangulate” where the shooter was located, leading to a quicker take-down and thereby saving untold lives.

      1. I had read (unconfirmed) that the smoke alarm in the shooter’s room went off and that was significant in identifying the location of the shooter.

  10. Regarding Robertson, as Hitchens said of Falwell, it’s a pity there isn’t a hell for him to go to.

    Though I do wish Pat luck when he enters the US Senate for the state of Alabama. Same guy, right?

    1. Regarding Robertson, as Hitchens said of Falwell, it’s a pity there isn’t a hell for him to go to.

      As noted on a competing thread, Hayley Geftman-Gold is a common type. She differs from Dave137 only in that her viciousness is supplemented with ample intelligence.

  11. Robertson was too quick to weigh in but he made an observation that is hard to deny. There is too much disrespect and anger in society generally.

    Hillary is beneath contempt. Nothing she put forward was helpful,.

  12. I am not sure that a silencer on a machine gun would work very long unless it was water cooled or something. Gun barrels tend to get sort of hot when a lot of bullets pass thru them in a hurry. My AK47 Home Defense Gun gets hot after just a few rounds and by the time the whole thingy of 30 bullets goes thru it (about 10 seconds for me) you shouldn’t ought to touch the barrel.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. Squeeky, you are a trip. I picture a sweet, demure, goofy little pre-teen with a big gun. Charming.

  13. The guy is reportedly a retired multi-millionaire accountant, who owns four homes and two airplanes and enjoys extensive gambling and traveling. There had to be some reason that he decided he wanted to die, and to kill so many others in the process.

    1. I am betting there was a lot more meanness in him that nobody knows about. Like killing hitchhikers and stuff. Unless he had a brain tumor, he has probably always been a psychopath. I would not be surprised at all if he has put his fair share of dead bodies in shallow graves across the country.

      Squeeky Fromm
      Girl Reporter

      1. My “arm chair psychologist” theory is that he was competing with his father, a bank robber who was on the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted List and had his own FBI wanted poster. There were four boys in the family; he was the oldest. He grew up under the notoriety and glamor of a gangster father who robbed banks, moved frequently, busted out of prison, and ran small time gambling rings. This guy led a quiet life as an accountant and real estate investor. He was even cautious in his gambling, preferring slots to poker. For whatever reason, he decided to check out, and become more notorious than his father in the process. But he still wasn’t the man his father was. His father walked into banks and robbed them face-to-face. This coward was 32 floors above the ground, picking-off faceless people with high-powered weapons from the safety of a luxury hotel suite.

  15. I’m starting to enjoy HRC’s messaging to the masses now. She’s been sucking the government teat since the 1980s and has always had someone to write her words for her. Now that she has to do it herself, we’re gonna find out just how dumb she is.

    2. MM re: “I’m starting to enjoy HRC’s messaging to the masses now.” That’s a great way to look at it as I have been triggered everytime I see that deluded twisited warmongering witch paraded all over since she emerged from the woods. Yes, enjoy as she continues to alienate even more people in droves – everytime she spoke her numbers decreased. Thanks for that!!

      1. Old Hills might be a warmonger but she’s got nothing on your orange boy that is advocating for a nuclear holocaust.

        1. Darren hasn’t let us know if you and Benson have the same IP address. Be pretty amusing.

        2. Ken Doll, Not my boy. I was Berniebot and then voted for Jill. It was either that or stay home.

        1. mespo – the building next door is the Luxor which is sloped. I don’t think the sound was bouncing.

            1. mespo – sound was one of the things I did well on in physics and in this case, the sound waves would travel to the Luxor, which is a pyramid and be pushed upward, not outward to the parking lot. The Luxor has two polished glass sides facing Mandalay Bay and the shooter had an odd angle that he was shooting from. The glass would help transfer the sound upward.

              If the shooter had been at the Excaliber, your theory would be correct, but the distance is so great that I am not sure there would be much bounce back.

              BTW, Hans shot first. 🙂

    2. Most modern rifles fire bullets that travel faster than the speed of sound. Silencers cannot muffle the sound of the bullet after it leaves the barrel/silencer and breaks the sound barrier.

      That is the reason that people who use silencers for serious business often specify and use sub-sonic ammunition.

      Here is a quote from the Internet that seems pretty accurate:

      “Simply having a suppressor on the end of your gun doesn’t mean it’s quiet enough to conceal a shot. When shooting supersonic ammunition, suppressors only reduce muzzle report while doing nothing for the bullet’s sonic “crack” as it moves downrange. Anyone along that flight path will hear the projectile pass loudly, and anyone to your rear will hear a slightly muted shot. Even subsonic projectiles aren’t silent. While there’s no crack, they zip downrange with an unnerving sound when heard from the receiving end. The larger the projectile, the more noise it makes disturbing the air in flight. This applies to both supersonic and subsonic projectiles, though it’s a different sound for each. Likewise, larger-diameter suppressor bores generally equal more noise at the muzzle. The smaller the bullet and tighter the bore, the less noise escaping, all else being equal.”

      2. One other use for suppressors is they tend to hide the muzzle flash which comes in useful when raiding meth labs so that if a shooting happens they lessen the possibility of igniting flammable chemicals in the air.

  17. ..and as for Pat Robertson, he reminds me of the Mullahs that Run Iran today. I’ll leave it at that.
    Cheers….

    1. You are correct, she has yet to blame raining frogs as well. But, I suppose when you have an infinite number of Hillary Clinton sycophants typing on typewriters, eventually the frogs excuse is generated.

    2. Clinton has been wrong about a lot but she is right about the NRA. The carnage continues due to the fact the Congress is in the NRA’s pocket .

      1. Kid, New York City managed an 82% reduction in its homicide rate over the period running from 1990 to 2010. The annual number of homicides declined by about 1,800 per year. This was accomplished with NO changes of note in the Penal Code provisions governing weapons. Liberals are completely uninterested in the methods of New York’s police chiefs. They resent them when they acknowledge them at all.

  19. At this point, no one knows what put Paddock in that room shooting, but if he had a machine gun, it is illegal regardless. I would love to know where he got it. I want one for my home for the ZA.

    I am more concerned about the families of the dead who must be terribly distraught and the injured who are trying to recover. They need to be in our prayers, those of us who pray. The LVPD, LVFD, and LVEMTs saved a lot of lives this morning. Thank you, guys!!!!

    Hillary is trying to stay relevant, but really who cares what she says? What is more important is whether Huma will divorce Weiner so he can testify against her and vice versa.

    1. Fully automatics aren’t illegal, Paul, just heavily regulated. I bet Paddock just bought the conversion kit to make his .223 automatic.

      1. mespo – they described it as a machine gun, not fully automatic. Big difference. 58 dead, 500 injured. What type of weapon does that?

        1. A .223 or .308 converted to automatic. No way he lugs a .50 cal up there without being noticed. Not even a relatively smaller .30 cal

          1. mespo – you have no idea how many bags my wife took into the Luxor when we stayed there. 🙂 She could have smuggled a small truck into the room.

      2. I know no more about the mechanics of converting a gun to automatic other than what I saw on one episode of “Law & Order.” Should manufacturers make guns harder to convert? Should conversion kits be illegal in the same way that drug paraphernalia once was? If the only reason a converter kit exists is to make a weapon into something that is highly regulated or illegal. What’s the point? Whi is allowed to buy a fully automatic weapon BTW?

        1. I might jump in on this. Conversion kits are illegal on the federal level and I suspect all states (though I don’t have the time to check each one) For the federal level converting a semi-automatic firearm to fully automatic constitutes manufacturing of a machine gun, which requires a federal firearms manufacturing license for that type of firearm. So, the act of conversion is itself a felony unless properly licensed. Of course, this is of no deterrent to someone bent on committing an offense that has a potential death penalty as in the case of a mass murder. Plus, the use of a machine gun in the commission of a felony (murder) is itself a crime and if the gun or the ammunition was sold or carried in interstate commerce, a probability in this case, the federal government can take jurisdiction.

          Purchasing a fully automatic weapon is difficult for the average person in most states. It requires a special FFL license. Also it is illegal to possess one under federal law for a non FFL licensed civilian unless the weapon was manufactured before a certain date. Most state laws make the mere possession of a machine gun by a civilian not licensed as a gun seller or manufacturer a felony.

          Also a machine gun is defined as a firearm that fires more than one round for each pull of the trigger.

          I invite others to comment as my memory of federal firearms law is becoming a bit rusty.

            1. Please go back to school and become a paralegal. The faux lawyer stuff is getting stale.

              1. You apparently do not realize Ken that Darren had to know this stuff as part of his profession. What qualifies you to question his training and education?

              2. I find Darren’s posts very helpful. And as a LEO, he would have more knowledge of firearms laws and regulations than a lawyer. Unless a lawyer worked for the ATF or NRA, he/she would have no reason to be familiar with this specialty area.

          2. Check out Knob Creek gun range’s annual machine gun shot. It’s quite a spectacle.

        2. Enigma – I don’t know anything about the gun conversion process either, but they were saying on the news that kits can be purchased over the Internet, and instructions are available on YouTube. But I’m not about to look it up, as I don’t want anyone trying to pin something on me, based on my internet browsing, lol.

    2. re: “I am more concerned about the families of the dead who must be terribly distraught and the injured who are trying to recover.” I second that Paul!

      Also, the residents of Vegas who are traumatized beyond belief. My bro and sis live there — my niece called me earlier (17 y.o.) and rambled on and on – trying to digest the horror and I just listened. Only thing I offered to her was not to allow fear to keep her from going out and enjoying various activities.

  20. If Hillary Clinton, and other politicians, would refrain from uninformed policy making, they might look at the facts concerning suppressors.

    A suppressor is not capable of fully silencing the reports of rifle ammunition. It does quiet the sound, but not completely. In fact, had the shooter in this incident had a silencer, it might actually have lessened the muzzle velocity of the bullets fired and possibly lessened a few injuries if only by a minor amount.

    From every video I witnessed of this tragedy, the gunshots sounds are obvious and unmistakable. One can hear the bullets impacting and a moment later the sounds of gunfire–due to the distance and speed of sound.

    The events are tragic and horrible for the victims. Politicians should show some restraint and respect as most everyone else certainly will.

    1. Then what’s the solution? Estimates are there are over 300,000,000 guns in the United States–Professor Turley forgot to note that Sarah Huckabee Sanders could not help herself to cite the excuse of Chicago….Charles Pierce of Esquire asked the question: If Newton did not move the Country–will Las Vegas will–the answer is no–and the discourse here is ever so emblematic of it as noted by Mr. Smith and Professor Turley. Having someone buying that many guns should have raised some alarm–but it appears that in the World according to the NRA, the Gun Owners of America et al, that’s not the case–as they hide behind the Second Amendment.

      1. You’ll never get gun control until the population feels safe. That won’t be anytime soon. There’s a reason gun stocks were up today.

      2. We have not been presented with evidence so far on if these firearms were acquired in a single purchase or over years.

        As for if the numbers of possessed firearms are to be restricted for an individual consider this: How many petitions of the government should be restricted? How many speeches should a person be permitted to make in their lifetime? How many times may a person object to unreasonable searches before their liberty is restricted? How many newspapers may you be limited? Any number will be entirely arbitrary.

        You can’t pick and choose which civil and constitutional rights you can advocate and still consider yourself a supporter of those guaranteed to us.

        Any number will be entirely arbitrary.

        1. Is it too much to ask a politician not to make hay out of a tragedy or disaster? I’m just spitballing ideas here, but how about just expressing sympathy and support for the wounded, the scared, and the loved ones of the dead? Do we really need politicians pontificating in front of the dead while the family are still being notified?

          It’s catastrophe profiteering. Did someone die? How can I get some votes out of it? Further my career? What’s in it for me?

          Have some common decency.

          1. The above comment is addressed to all of the politicians who have gone on the news in a shameless attempt to get a platform for relevancy.

          2. Agreed. Completely. Respect for the dead and the surviving kin is not too much to ask of politicians, public figures, nor anybody else, for that matter. Unfortunately, we’d have to get the media to go along with the common decency approach. O bother.

        2. Darren – one of the frustrating aspects to cases like these is when the shooter kills himself before he can be questioned. People want to understand his motivation, no matter how insane, to try to work out any red flags. The police have said that this took considerable planning and foresight. It’s hard for people to get closure without understanding why he did it. I hope the police can uncover a digital trail, a note, comments he made…anything to explain why he did this. His family appeared to be at a loss.

          I think of killers as belonging to two categories – those who try not to get caught and those who make no effort to avoid it. The former includes serial killers and many who kill a significant other. The latter includes many terrorists, insane mass shooters, and the murder-suicides of significant others.

          I do not know what the shooter’s motivation was. But he shot from a clearly identifiable and reachable position. He was not going to get away. He may have had the high ground, but he also had no escape. His goal appears to have been to kill as many as possible before he either committed suicide or was shot. And his alleged suicide indicates that he wanted to control his own death, as well. So why the country music attendees? Were they just the most visible and dense target distribution?

          He was in that hotel for days. He must have concealed his armory in his luggage, and the hotel housekeeping staff were honest and didn’t peek.

          Have they confirmed if his weapons were modified post production to have a bump reload, similar to a fully automatic?

          Bombs. Vehicles as weapons of mass destruction. Mass shootings. Nuclear North Korea. I’m beginning to think that Doomsday Preppers may be avant guard trend setters.

          1. Karen – when you see the Google Maps photos, he is in a good spot for the attempts, but not the best. He has an awkward angle which may have saved a lot of lives. Still, it was a target-rich environment. Almost anyplace he shot was a hit. He was shooting faster than they could clear out. IMHO right now, he did not have a specific target, they are all random, From that height and elevation, he was just shooting body mass, assuming he had a scope.

              1. frankly – I am sorry for any loss or injury. I have made no political statements about this, except to rip the people who have.

        1. The US is more dangerous than most military zones due to the proliferation of guns. Make gun laws sensible and safe.

          1. Frankly, please don’t be too upset, but . . . the last time I checked the combined casualty rate for US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq was 1 in every 295 troops deployed from 2003 through 2014. Of course, that figure includes military personnel who served multiple deployments. I’ll check again to make sure.

            Meanwhile, the homicide rate in the US for 2015 was roughly 5 per 100,000 and declining.

              1. Laws are not obeyed by criminals. They only affect honest people. Evil people will do what they have to do to accomplish their goals. (Google ‘Happy Land Fire’)

            2. No problem…… The high number of mass murders in 2016 and 2017 have more than likely changed the homicide rates.

              1. No. In a typical year < 0.2% of all instances of homicide have more than 3 victims.

          2. The US is more dangerous than most military zones

            I see you don’t have a career ahead of you in the insurance business.

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