Pray or Perish: Egypt Moves Toward Criminalizing The Disbelief In God

Egypt Coat of ArmsEgyptOur close ally Egypt has long been a symbol of religious intolerance and anti-free speech values — a government partially subsidized by billions in U.S. aid.  Now, Amr Hamroush, the head of parliament’s religious committee, has announced that Egypt is moving toward the criminalization of disbelieving in God. That’s right, you will be committing a crime in Egypt if you do not believe.  Akin to the policy of the “beatings will continue until morale improves,” Egypt may soon instill belief in God by jailing people for not believing.

 

Hamroush appears to relish in the sheer stupidity of this latest attack on personal freedom: “The phenomenon is being promoted in society as freedom of belief when this is totally wrong . . . It must be criminalised and categorized as contempt of religion because atheists have no doctrine and try to insult the Abrahamic religions.”

He is being supported by equally clueless clerics like Mohamed Zaki, the head of al-Azhar’s Supreme Council for Dawa, who insisted that the law was necessary to “deter people from violating the natural instincts of man and punish those who have been seduced into atheism.” Of course, if it was such a “natural instinct of man” one would hope that you would not have to threaten people with prison in order to instill basic faith in an almighty.  Zaki however is quick to remind people that “The deterrent must be harsh and impeding to suit this malicious call and stop this poisonous thinking from spreading among Muslims and young people.”

Islamic countries often impose long sentences or death on those accused of apostasy, as we have previously discussed.  Muslim leaders have called for atheists to be hunted down.

The number of atheists in the United States is growing at a fast rate with some studies suggesting the number has been significantly underreported.  At least ten percent report that they do not believe in God.  Other studies put the percentage at 26 percent.  So as much as one quarter of our population would be arrested in Egypt while we give billions to that government.

105 thoughts on “Pray or Perish: Egypt Moves Toward Criminalizing The Disbelief In God

  1. Curious. Similar to putting a humidifier and dehumidifier in a room and letting them fight it out, I wonder what would become of a similar encounter between a heavy-handed Egyptian gov rep and a revisionist postmodernist from the “CUNY Professor Denounces Meritocracy and Color-Blindness…” article? Interesting to have examples of philosophical extremes on this blog.

    • “Mostly just off topic trash below.”

      David, school is out.
      Your prime time in class ends now.
      It must be playtime.

  2. I believe in Dog. Anyone who does not believe in Dog needs to be shot. Those people over there just don’t know how to spull the word. God spulled backwards is Dog.

    Woof.

  3. Egypt Moves Toward Criminalizing The Disbelief In God
    .
    We have this in this country too. God is the holy trinity of obama, clinton and $0r0$, their theology is liberalism, their religious dogma is communism, they proselytize the gospel of global warming and their Universal Prayer is:
    “Death to America. Amen.”

  4. SIDEBAR –

    If Candidate Trump really did not want to be President and Melania cried on election night per Wolff’s book, exactly why would Trump “collude” with the Russians?

    Exactly which “collusion” is Obergruppenfuhrer Mueller investigating?

    Perhaps Obergruppenfuhrer Mueller would do well to investigate the only actual extant “collusion” which was Hillary’s, the “Uranium One” rendition and that of the democrat party.

    • If HRC was colluding with Fusion and Steele to harm Trump, why didn’t she ever release any of the information he was gathering BEFORE the election? Interesting that Buzzfeed only published it after the election. Maybe it’s because your argument is crap.

      The other day, Chuck Todd asked Jim Jordan, an exceptionally nutty human, this question and he responded EXACTLY the way some of my delusional psych patients did when I tried to gently reality test them. He had no answer so he doubled down on the crazy.

      • For a self-described “psychiatrist,” and someone who describes certain persons as “exceptionally nutty,” your describing the Russia dossier as “information” is more than a little, shall we say, “nutty.” Me, I suspect the reason the RNC requests criminal complaint on the author is more likely consistent with the dossier being full of “crap” (another word you prefer), like the person who appears in your mirror.

        Are you able to write your own Rx for your chronic and severe case of TDS, or must another MD write such Rx?

        To your other point: HRC had no reason to dump the dossier’s information because she was relying on her war mongering ally John McStain to do so. Why he did not leak the info earlier I’m not sure, maybe because he knew the whole story, was a co-conspirator, and he had reason to believe some felonies were associated with the dossier’s existence, the exact same potential felonies now being examined.

        To the pathetic and oft-repeated mantra from DNC surrogates like yourself, who mention an RNC member was the first one associated with the dossier. This does not matter. It’s not news that you yourself voted in concert with war mongers like Judaic son of a Bolshevik Bill Kristol, the Koch Bros, the Bush Krime Syndicate, George Will (who left the RNC). It’s not news that some wealthy RNC member X preferred bought and paid for HRC over Trump, and this person X may have started the dossier. It’s also not news that RNC-member X did not hire a foreign agent Steele (who paid Russian operatives) for lies about Trump, which items are potential felonies.

        RNC person X hates Trump and likely prefers any DNC member over Trump as POTUS. HRC easily bought and manipulated, Trump not. But person X was not warm to the risk of committing felonies toward his goal. Conversely, the DNC and especially HRC were later happy to take such risk, especially because HRC thought she’d be POTUS and be in complete control of the narrative, and never be held accountable. IOW, she believed her own MSM tripe, not such a smart thing to do.

        • That’s not actually an accurate quote. It’s Hamlet’s mother, Gertrude, who delivers the line — talking about an actress in a play within the play — and she says, “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”

      • Bose,….
        Mother Jones had information about material contained in the dossier; they published an article alluding to that info about 2 weeks before the election.
        A recent development is the Congressional investigation into whether Steele lied about contacts with reporters.
        I think there is a criminal referral to the DOJ on that issue.
        It took about a year to obtain proof, or to publicly announce the proof, that the DNC and Clinton election committee paid for the Russian Dossier.
        That funding route was payment to Perkins Coie/ Mark Elias who paid Fusion GPS, which hired Steele ( though a British firm called Orbis?, I think).
        Prior to late October 2017, I don’t think any individuals were identified as principals involved with funding/authorizing Steele’s Russia investigation.
        Even at this point, I think investigators are still determing which “individuals did what” re their roles in authorizing the dossier.
        And no one seems to be stepping forward taking credit for it.
        In any case, there is no solid proof at this point that Hillary herself knew about the Russian Dossier.
        Established media outlets were reluctant to publish unverified allegations contained in the Dossier.
        Mother Jones had at least some information about it before the election, and there are allegations that info from the Dossier was “shopped around” to other publications before the election.
        Even after the election, the established, reputable publishers stayed away from the story until Buzzfeed published the Dossier in early Jan. 2017.
        Finally, even IF Hillary and key Democratic Party figures knew about the Dossier, she seemed headed for certain victory.
        Trump’s win was a stunning upset that caught almost everyone flatfooted.
        So publishing a Dossier ( which could have backfired) before the election may have been deemed to be an unnecessary risk.
        Still a lot of investigations and unanswered questions about numerous facets of the 2016 election.

        • Tom:

          (1) “( th[r]ough a British firm called Orbis?, I think)”

          Steele started the firm. Hire Steele and you hire Orbis. Hire Orbis and you hire Steele. Steele IS Orbis.

          (2) “In any case, there is no solid proof at this point that Hillary herself knew about the Russian Dossier.”

          That’s in keeping with standard Clintonian procedure. People that surround Hillary know what they’re expected to do — probably getting their orders from Podesta or Cheryl Mills — most likely Mills, since her communications with Hillary are covered by attorney-client privilege — and the number one rule is to not tell Hillary any of the details of what’s going on, so that is no way to trace criminal conduct back directly to her, and so she can say she didn’t know anything about something without have to lie or think about it or worry about committing perjury.
          Hillary herself isn’t actually in charge of anything. She’s just a cog in the mechanism — a recognizable name and the public face of an organization, like a news anchor. An analogy would be Wolf Blitzer. He’s the guy people see when they turn on CNN, but he’s NOT the person in charge of CNN.

          • W. Bayer,…
            – As one writer put it, there were “layers of insulation” between Hillary and Christopher Steele’s opposition research based on Russian sources.
            And the route(s) of payment…..DNC>to Perkins-Coie/ Mark Elias> to Fusion GPS>to Christopher Steele are indications that those who funded the Russian Dossier did not want to leave a money trail back to the DNC or the Hillary campaign fund.
            It took a subpeona and c. one year just to establish the money trail.
            There is an additional issue…..based on what I’ve read, the funds paid to Perkins-Coie were all designated as ” legal work”.
            There is a legal requirement to seperately account for expenses incurred for opposition research; putting it all under the umbrella of “legal work” seems to be another measure designed to conceal the identity of who paid for the Russian Dossier.
            While I think it is likely that Hillary knew what was going on, I anticipate that there are further “layers of insulation” between her and the Dossier.
            Deniabilty, even on how the Russian Dossier project was funded, refusal of GPS execs to testify for months ( then taking the 5th numerous times), was built into the Russian Dossier project.
            The next step will likely face the same kind of delays, in the form of “gee, I didn’t approve this”, or “gee, I didn’t know anything about this”.

            • Tom: You said what I tried to say better than I did.

              Not sure about the future delays being as successful as the previous delays. For one thing, Congress is looking at a November election where control of the House and Senate could shift, in which case control of the Committees will shift and all of this investigatory work will be lost.

              I think a number of anti-Trump republicans would be fine with that, but other republicans would prefer to get the investigations going full tilt, especially now that they’ve finally gotten access to the FISA records at the heart of this — if for no other reason than misuse of the FISA Court bears upon renewal of the FISA laws(s), and because when Trump is gone and if he’s replaced by a democrat (either in 2020 or 2024) there’s a probability that democrats will again misuse the FISA Court. I don’t think any republicans want to contemplate that possibility, so I expect subpoenas for witnesses to start flowing without long waiting periods hoping for voluntary cooperation. That’s how the committees wasted most of the last year — waiting and hoping for voluntary cooperation that they never got.

              At the present moment, things appear to be going along fine. My biggest regret (aside from previous delays) is that anything relevant happens behind closed doors, and the public is forced to resort to piecing together leaks, rumors, and self-serving statements by politicians in order to figure out the truth.

      • “If HRC was colluding with Fusion and Steele to harm Trump, why didn’t she ever release any of the information he was gathering BEFORE the election?”

        Actually, the information was leaked, which is why everyone was talking about it before the election. That is how such information is released, through calculated leaks.

        Honestly, why does anyone believe Hillary Clinton anymore when she keeps lying? Her campaign is on record on Twitter and in interviews before the election claiming the allegations were proof Trump was in collusion with the Russians. They used allegations which were in the dossier.

        Then, she lied about knowing anything about the dossier, until it was proven that she and the DNC party both funded it.. This is why she wasn’t voted the first Madame President. She keeps getting caught lying about shady business and has zero credibility.

        The Mueller investigation is fruit of the poison tree. They used the dossier as the reason why they investigated Trump for Russian influence, and why they rooted around in any dealings with Russians among his associates and campaign staff.

        Mind you, they are investigating Trump for what Hillary Clinton actually did. How does she do it? How does she get the FBI to investigate a man for a spurious charge, and when that doesn’t pan out, keep digging for a crime, when she is the one who engaged in the very behavior she accused him of? That takes really Machiavellian skill and an adroitness at lying one doesn’t often see. And there are actually people who still believe her. Frankly, if she told me the sky was blue, I’d look up to check.

      • Mespo,…
        Looking at Trump’s demeanor and his statements in the days before the election, I got a strong sense that he was resigned to losing the election.
        ( Maybe “resigned” is not the right word…..he was strongly implying that the election was rigged, and that he might not accept the results of the election).
        But I think, in his own mind, he didn’t think he’d win.
        And it looked like he was preparing for an “I was robbed” accusation after his defeat.

        • A bit of brilliance there. I am suitably impressed.

          “…in the days before the election, I got a strong sense that he was resigned to losing the election.”

          —————————————————————————————————————————–

          CHICAGO DAILY TRIBUNE

          “Dewey Defeats Truman”
          ______________________________________________________________________________

          “…resigned to losing the election.”

          Yep.

          • It was the biggest upset in presidential elections since 1948.
            I don’t know if you observed Trump and those around him in the days before the election, but the mood was pretty somber.

            • I don’t think in the last few days or weeks Trump was resigned to losing the election. Look at the number of speeches he gave every day before the election took place. Along with a political genius, unrecognized by the less than mediocre press corp, Trump seems to have the stamina of a 20-year-old.

              • Allan,…
                -That last minute (weeks) surge of campaigning, while Hillary was not as active on the campaign trail, was probably one of the factors in Trump’s victory.
                But I still think that Trump thought he could maybe close the gap, but not win.
                We may have different recollections, or interpretations, of the mood in the Trump camp in the final days of the campaign.
                It’d be interesting to replay all of the video of Trump in that last week of the campaign.
                My take on that last week or so was that Trump was bracing for, and expecting, defeat.
                ( along with just about everybody else).

                • Perhaps you’re right. I was nowhere near a TV during the run up to election day, so I can’t judge the apparent demeanor of the Trump camp. But it would not have been wise to appear too confident of victory. While Trump’s last minute campaigning might have been what pushed him over the top, it could just as easily be observed that all of the talk about “Hillary in a landslide” convinced many Hillary voters that they didn’t even have to bother showing up at the polls. So it could be that Trump was bracing for defeat, or it could be that he was smart enough not to appear over confident.

                  It’s a real tight-rope routine. Act too confident and your own supporters might think that they don’t have to show up at the polls, or act too concerned about losing and your own supporters might figure that you’ve already lost and again decide not to show up to vote. It could be that Trump played it brilliantly.

                • “But I still think that Trump thought he could maybe close the gap, but not win.”

                  Tom, I think you are perceiving this victory in a very binary way. If the odds are 99.99% for a win there is still that .01% chance of loss. I don’t think Trump concerns himself about things in the same manner as you seem to think he does. The initial question for him is whether he thinks he has a shot and is that shot worth it. Once that process is completed he doesn’t seem to waste time and energy thinking about a loss rather focuses on getting the job done without looking back. It’s a waste of time and energy bracing oneself for defeat and it is self-defeating for that type of thinking can be seen by those working with him which may reduce their efforts as well.

      • Let me see if I got this straight. The Left believes Wolfe’s book, in which he admits he sometimes didn’t tell the truth. He claims that Trump didn’t really want to be President, and ran for other reasons. But…at the same time, he wanted to be President so badly that he cheated and used the Russians to influence the election.

        The fact that he didn’t use Russian fraudulent intelligence, and Hillary did, to attempt a WH snatch, proves…that Trump is unstable and should be forcibly restrained for a mental evaluation.

        Do I have that quite right?

  5. Isn’t Egypt the same country in which the military conducted a coup d’etat and overthrew a duly elected government?

    It’s kinda like the coup d’etat to overthrow the duly elected President in America being conducted by the Obama/Hillary “deep state” with the FBI acting as the “tip of the spear.”

    America has a lot in common with Egypt…and China rolls on. Roll Tide!

      • “On 3 July 2013, Egyptian army chief General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi led a coalition to remove the President of Egypt, Mohamed Morsi, from power and suspended the Egyptian constitution.”

        – Wiki
        ____________________________________________________________________________________

        “PETER STRZOK’S INSURANCE POLICY – A COUP D’ETAT IN AMERICA”

        On a potential Trump 2016 election victory:

        “I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in Andy’s office – that there’s no way he gets elected – but I’m afraid we can’t take that risk,” Strzok texted on Aug. 15, 2016. “It’s like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before you’re 40.”

        – Peter Strzok to his paramour Lisa Page in the office of FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe.

  6. Egypt needs a big supply of puke bags….The error of Egypt

    Pro_23:8 The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.

    Pro_25:16 Hast thou found honey? eat so much as is sufficient for thee, lest thou be filled therewith, and vomit it.

    Pro_26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

    Isa_19:14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.

    Isa_28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

    Jer_48:26 Make ye him drunken: for he magnified himself against the LORD: Moab also shall wallow in his vomit, and he also shall be in derision.

    2Pe_2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    • An ex-CIA member I trust once wrote that the sole solution to the ME problem is for Israel (a nation of zero national interest to the USA, security and/or any other interest) and it’s Arab enemies to war till one or the other or both cease to exist.

      I would not wish war ever on anyone. But certainly it’s worth considering his words v. the constant “threat” of ME war since the USA, UK, and League of Nations installed Israel in Palestine by threat of military force, against the wishes of then-Palestine and it’s then-neighbors. To say it would be like installing Alabama’s entire government to rule CA by threat of force is a grotesque and fatal understatement.

      The greater point for me is that I agree with George Washington’s Farewell Address, that “all foreign entanglements are temporary.” I simply want the USA to cease taking sides everywhere including and especially the ME, to apologize to Islam for threatening it’s existence, and to let every single nation on earth work out it’s failures and successes without our prodding one way or the other. IOW, the USA appears on our neighbor’s shores, opens it’s baskets of goodies to trade, our international neighbor does likewise, we trade, we say “thanks,” we bow or whatever is the local practice, we leave, rinse, repeat, etc.

      To pass moral judgment because a nation is less mature and advanced than us is not only pure folly, it explains the need for 800+ foreign military bases.

      A perfect example: the USA is in bed with the Al Saud Crime Syndicate, apparently the world’s most egregious tyrants and dictators, where many Arabs eat dirt while the Syndicate flush solid gold toilets purchased with US petro dollars. SA finances madrasas where insane blood thirsty mullahs order Muslim children to chant “death to America,” and the Syndicate tells these children that the USA causes all their problems (OBL and 19 of 20 9-11 principals were from SA).

      The above, all while the USA daily chants Woodrow Wilson’s “spread peace through democracy around the world,” a chant which rivals religious wars for its unnecessary and unhelpful shedding of innocent blood.

      • Joseph, I can understand anyone’s belief that the US should totally stay out of the Middle East without siding with one party or the other despite the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the area and despite the fact that the Jewish people continuously lived in the land known as Israel along with its adjacent countries for about 3,000 years (around 800,000 Jews were expelled from the neighboring countries under the threat of death while their property was stolen). That is a policy decision one can rationally debate.

        Unfortunately, the little history you have written is wrong and the US hasn’t stayed out of the Middle East and many organizations within the US have frequently sided against Israel. Most recently the US government under Obama sent over $140 Billion to Iran with the support of many within the government including John Brennan head of the CIA which demonstrates official US policy. If you recall Iran has threatened to wipe Israel off the map and threatens the use of nuclear weapons to do so. I don’t think the leadership in Iran likes the US any more than it likes Israel.

      • Joseph, I was just reading this and thought you might be interested.

        “The Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida reported that three years ago, Israel was on the verge of liquidating Soleimani near Damascus but the Obama administration tipped off Teheran of Israel’s plans. Soleimani is no ordinary general. He is arguably the world’s premier terrorist and is commander of Iran’s Quds Force, a branch of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, responsible for its overseas mischief-making. Where there is drugs, misery and conflict, it’s a sure bet that Soleimani and his Quds Force are involved.

        The elimination of Soleimani would have been a tremendous coup for the West, on par with or perhaps surpassing the assassination of Imad Mughniyah, chief of Hezbollah’s special operations. But the Obama administration, in its sycophantic zeal to curry favor with the mullahs, sabotaged the operation.”

        In the past, our government has demonstrated tremendous support for the Arab states because of their oil and the Cold War. Obama’s efforts may have been focused in a different direction but led to the same support of an Arab state threatening to annihilate the legitimate State of Israel.

        • I should have added that the political guys at the CIA have always favored oil and Cold War concerns so perhaps your ex CIA friend has a modicum of bias.

  7. OK, so here’s the nub of this article:

    [JT, or whoever wrote this]:“Hamroush appears to relish in the sheer stupidity of this latest attack on personal freedom:

    [Amr Hamroush]: “The phenomenon [atheism] is being promoted in society as freedom of belief when this is totally wrong . . . It must be criminalised and categorized as contempt of religion because atheists have no doctrine and try to insult the Abrahamic religions.”

    I tend to agree with Hamroush on this. He has a good grasp of the West’s addiction to “personal freedom” to the point where it starts to break down civilization. “Personal freedom” is the basis for legalizing drugs, randomly mating thru Tinder, popping out illegitimate kids left and right, murdering unborn babies, breaking laws that you don’t agree with, etc. “Personal freedom”, when it is reduced to the childish level of a 16 year old teenager demanding to go to a party at a friends house whose parents are out of town, will be the death of the West.

    We have overdone “personal freedom”.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    • Squeeky, one has to look at what is being said based on the realities of where the statement was made and who made the statement.

      Our founders believed that belief in God was important for reasons you state above, but we have to remember they were trying to create a “liberal democracy”. Egypt in 2014 changed governments from a theocratic government whose interest excluded the interests of anyone that believed in God that wasn’t a Muslim. Their school textbooks were teaching Islamist radicalism.Those textbooks started to be removed from the schools by their new leader Al-Sisi (who admittedly is autocratic).

    • “Breaking laws you don’t agree with.”? So Squeeky, I presume in the intellectual bubble in which you house yourself, the entire Civil Rights Movement was all wrong because they took the approach that breaking laws they didn’t agree with was okay? Fortunately for the rest of us, your view has very little appeal for most of the intellectually civilized and enlightened among us.

  8. “Our close ally Egypt has long been a symbol of religious intolerance and anti-free speech values — a government partially subsidized by billions in U.S. aid. ”

    I think JT is forgetting that Al-Sisi was removing the Islamist books from the school system. Al-Sisi replaced
    Morsi who was backed by the Muslim Brotherhood that wishes to destroy western civilization.

    Just because Al-Sisi removes books doesn’t mean the influence of the Islamists doesn’t exist so it is likely the Salafists are pushing for what JT calls “Criminalizing The Disbelief In God”.

    We have to recognize the disparate ideologies in Egypt and support the ideology that most closely aligns with our own.

    However, in this country, we have people that promote the Muslim Brotherhood that in some Arab nations is considered a terrorist organization. We have for some time had a bill pending in the House “House. H.R. 5194” to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO). We have to recognize dangerous ideologies and support those ideologies that most closely believe in individual freedoms and choice or at least are supportive of our nation.

  9. Virgina, the state where American religious freedom was created and where most presidents were born, has a state slogan designed for “theocrats” in government:

    “Sic Sempter Tyrannis” meaning death to tyrants!

    Virginia and most states’ taxpayers would be strongly opposed to funding theocrats here or abroad.

    • You’re telling me that Virginia selected as its state slogan what John Wilkes Booth shouted when he killed Lincoln? ? ? No wonder there was such a commotion about removing confederate statutes.

        • It’s nice when a reasonably subtle joke gets gotten. Thanks. Obviously in this case the chicken came before the egg, but it does seem strange that Virginia didn’t change it’s motto after Booth made it more famous (at least here in America) than it had previously been. I guess Virginia has no problem erasing/defacing its own past and its own history when it comes to confederate statutes but not when it comes to its state motto, even though the motto became synonymous with the assassination of Lincoln.
          I guess rewriting history isn’t as easy as it looks. Things always get tricky when you’re making up the rules as you go along. People at the DOJ and FBI are in the process of discovering that even as we write.

        • And I only just noticed my typo: “statutes” when I meant to type “statues.” I image Virginia removed most confederate “statutes” long ago. Then again maybe not.
          Anyway, it appears I wasted a wish in my letter to Santa — not asking for anything for myself but asking Santa to bring Turley as sleigh full of edit buttons for his website so that I could correct the typos I commit as often as Hillary lies or Bernie shouts “Millions will DIE!”

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