President Donald Trump made an interesting comment yesterday that both highlighted how he got into this mess and, ironically, the best defense to get out of it. Trump complained that “You fight back, oh, it’s obstruction.” That sums up so much about the past controversy and where it might end.
The fact is that Trump should never have viewed his role as fighting back in the midst of an FBI investigation. His inclination to react and to move aggressively has resulted in the loss of a year of his Administration and could result in the loss of one or two houses of Congress for the GOP. You do not “fight back” under you are under possible investigation because it means interfering or trying to influence an investigation. That is problematic even for a private citizens. It is exponentially more problematic when you are the head of the Executive Branch. “Fighting back” when you have the power to fire people can easily cross the line from being aggressive to being obstructive.
However, it also shows Trump’s best and perhaps only defense” He was not trying to obstruct the investigation but defend himself. It is often missed in coverage that Trump was pushing Comey not to scuttle the investigation but to say publicly what he had said privately to Congress. While Comey cleared Hillary Clinton publicly, he had not confirmed what he told Trump and others — that Trump was not under investigation.
In his comments yesterday, Trump said that he believes that the investigation “puts the country in a very bad position.” He can argue that he was doing what he has always done: push back on attacks and defend himself (and his Administration). He continued his signature approach without thinking about the change in his status from businessman to president.
Trump added that he would speak under oath. Much is being made of this statement, but Trump could still be prosecuted (or impeached) for false statements to federal investigators regardless of whether the statements were made under oath. That can be done under 18 U.S.C. 1001. Thus, the oath does not radically alter that situation. Nevertheless, Trump’s attorneys appeared to immediately contradict him and say that he is only agreeing to speak with the Special Counsel.
However, the statement is a positive development because it shows a more constructive posture, even an eagerness, to cooperate. Trump has been hurt by the constant image of someone trying to undermine and belittle the investigation. This is an improvement both politically and legally.
Republicans maximized the traditional low turnout of Dem. voters which lined up with the Democratic Party’s shedding of any association with its traditional low income base.- Joan Didion
Liberals should nurture the duty to vote with the same reverence displayed in boardrooms, for profits and, in churches, for religion.- John Stoehr.
Reverence for voting was taught in the union halls and in public schools, which explains the Walton heirs, Koch’s, and Gates working to destroy them.
The Center for American Progress and the tech tyrants need to be exorcised from the Democratic Party.
Slow day. Couldn’t find a single source or site or objective fact to followup. Even the dialectic wall bouncing was nothing. so…..
Bichi Burger Bun defined. A bun without a burger using Spanish slang bichi means naked. On a menu it’s a piece of meat with nothing else but here it’s just a stale Bimbo Bimbo is the largest bakery operation in Mexico and now opened in USA. I had to explain the USA connotation and they thought it was very funny. One said, “We have Chicas Tecate now we can have Bimbo Babes and useit to name a dulce!’ A dulce is as sweet dessert or candy. Full explanation for those who aren’t bi or tri lingual and can only speak Californian.
When you are a pathological liar, saying you’d testify under oath is irrelevant.
I can understand why a minority of Americans were taken in by this grifter in the past. Why they are still that stupid is astonishing. But, as they say in the south, you can’t fix stupid.
Can you not let poor Obama alone for just one day? Or was it Kerry?
Referring to Trump. But of course you knew that and wrote what you mistakenly thought was a clever reply. Is it time for InfoWars? If not, maybe you can watch a re-run of the demented Dobbs or the silly judge in the cocktail dresses.
Please stop excusing Trumps ineptness by claiming naïveté. If he doesn’t know he can’t use his mobster type tactics as President that’s on him!
Wow a clone with a programmer that is semi-lliterate?
And right now, the nation is in the grip of a crisis of distrust and polarization that itself presents a national-security problem. Aside from a nuclear exchange with Russia, there is no external enemy that can harm America as much as America can harm itself.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455727/release-the-memo-and-evidence?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Daily%20Monday%20through%20Friday%202018-01-24&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives
Spot on op-ed Olly – thanks for posting.
“Release the memo, but don’t stop there. Release the memo, the underlying evidence that allegedly supports its conclusions, the FISA-court applications that launched the Russia investigation, any additional relevant FISA-court applications, any relevant FISA-court opinions and orders, and any other class or category of classified information that allegedly substantiated DOJ concerns about Trump-campaign collusion with Russia.”
Wow Autumn what happened you joined the HANNITY camp!!!!!
think of all that baggage and garbage you left behind.
allegedly is ‘opinion’
allegedly substantiated is still unsubstantiated opinion
collusion is stil not a crime
one year no evidence
Michael – I am not a member of any “camp” – try to read as widely as possible from various POVs. Which is why this blog is so informative – peeps post stuff I may not have otherwise been aware of….
Thanks Autumn. Every time we are told this type of information is not suitable for public consumption, it reminds me of this passage from Kant’s What is Enlightenment?
Enlightenment is man’s release from his self-incurred tutelage. Tutelage is man’s inability to make use of his understanding without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude! ‘Have courage to use your own reason!’- that is the motto of enlightenment.
We started fixing that November of 2016
During the shutdown, 3 “essential” employees appointed to steer a federal, drug-related agency, got paid. One, a 24-year-old former Trump campaign staffer, appears to have a sketchy resume and is alleged to have lost a former job for failing to show up for work. (He’s reportedly resigning at the end of the month after the exposures). It’s an example of Trump, fulfilling his promise to fight drugs and to drain the swamp replacing slime with “good people”. (sarcasm)
“appears to have” “is alleged to have” “reportedly resigning” – Man, Linda, you are on this!! Great detective work, sister!!
Not alleged, undisputed fact- Trump hired a former campaign staffer, 24 years old, to direct his policy on drugs.
You don’t recognize quoted sections of your own comment. Further proof that you are a bot.
‘appears to’ is not evidence
allegedly’ is not a fact
‘reportedly’ is not ‘proof’
and all of that does not support
tweet mentality sarcasm.
Most Americans do not give a rats arse about all this Comey, Mueller and otherguy itShay. The dork photos of Comey, Mueller and otherguy are enough to kill off the media altogether. CNN, NBC, Fox and even PBS are obsessed with this apCray.
Today I took a Mark Twain novel off the shelf and am reading it and will not watch TV all day and night. It is titled: Roughing It!
Mark Twain defined Congress as Americas only home grown criminal class.
Yes, Mr. President, that’s pretty much how it works. That’s how it’s always worked. Remember all those people of color who “should have complied?” The law does not view the investigator and the investigatee as having a symmetrical relationship, their circumstances are different and cannot be compared.
It’s sort of like how, when Jackson Pollock threw paint at a wall, he was an “artist”, but when I do it, I’m “no longer welcome at Outback Steakhouse.”
In Trump world inhabited by T rumpers, up is down and down is up. The (1) Russian technique, “what about… ism”, (2) the continuing headline (Hillary), and (3) generalizing to the whole from a single anecdote (perfected by Limbaugh) were three tactics showing wear-out. So, the GOP pulled out the “Alice in wonderland” approach. Unfortunately, the GOP lucked into the approach best suited for stupid Republican voters in denial about being fleeced by Trump and the Koch cabinet.
One of the funnier applications of “up is down” is the labeling of GOP opponents as stalinistas. The U.S., as a result of the Republican organization, ALEC, has the most incarcerated population in the world. Republicans have impoverished workers using ALEC draft laws. Republicans back the anti-protest laws. The high-visibility repressive sheriffs are Republican. And, Republican administrations are attacking the press.
Linda:”And, Republican administrations are attacking the press.”
So glad you’re on top of things Linda.
However: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/jake-tapper/cnns-tapper-obama-has-used-espionage-act-more-all-/
Throw the Republicans out of office across the board. The Dems will get the message that serving the oligarchy is a loser deal.
The Koch’s and other billionaires gave Ryan’s campaign $1 mil. after the tax scam bill was delivered. Turn his seat, Democratic, Our Revolution or Working Family Party.
Linda meant to say the former press turned main stream media turned left steam propagandists. But it was too much effort.
Yes Comrade :Linda, sure thing Comrade Linda but how come the left parrots the teachings of Marxist Leninism and sends you dialectically bouncing off the walls?
Still Not one fact, not one source, not one cite, and when you look in the mirror that’s you not someone else.
Yet, it’s the Donald that makes the Russians and Chinese smirk.
This is another example that civics literacy should not only be a requirement to vote, but more importantly, it should be a requirement to hold public office.
None of these options will come about any time soon, nor is it likely that Boyle expects his bill to pass in this Congress. It is just another attempt to overturn the results of the election, just as the emoluments suits, the tax returns bills, and the Russia investigations have been. There is no legal theory here, just a primal scream of rage against the failure to dislodge from office the president they find so odious. It supposes that the electorate voted for Trump, a man who has been in public life for decades, because the public did not know who he was, and seeks to correct this kind of “mistake” in the future.
http://thefederalist.com/2018/01/25/stable-genius-act-terrible-idea-not-just-unconstitutional/?utm_source=The+Federalist+List&utm_campaign=55290e98c1-RSS_The_Federalist_Daily_Updates_w_Transom&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cfcb868ceb-55290e98c1-79248369
Olly,…
– I don’t see the need for a civics literacy test requirement for voting.
We have people like Linda who “understand” the workings of government and has untangled all oligarchical plots….which is to say, ALL plots.
Additionally, her campaign to enlighten “stupid Republican voters” is obviously effective.
Given her political genius 😄😂and her tireless campaign to “educate” voters, why bother with an unnecessary civics test?
Besides she can’t spell civcs and thinks it’s a car.
This article confirms to me that in this present legal situation, it doesn’t matter to these “special investigators” that the Trump and Russia story is BS propaganda.
They want to bring down a sitting president by any means necessary, even if it devolves into a simple perjury trap. This stinks of FBI corruption.
“And it’s really Russian fatigue because what Russia is doing is doing to us, financing our populists, financing people in our governments to undo our governments, you know, messing with our oil and gas energy, all the things Russia does to basically blow up our country, they’re just going to roll right through us and go to the Baltics and everyone else”
–Paul Ryan on audio tape
But he was only joking. Yeah, hilarious.
Rubles – the “shared value between southern evangelicals and Russia”… was that part of the Ryan humor -masking truth?
If Trump has nothing to defend himself against, then Trump’s self-defense against nothing is not working.
If Trump has something to defend himself against, then Trump’s self-defense against something is not working.
Either Trump has nothing to defend himself against, or Trump has something to defend himself against.
Either Trump self-defense against nothing is not working, or Trump’s self-defense against something is not working.
Either way, Trump remains a far whinier little school-girl than Hillary ever was. Now she was a real man.
L4D,…
– OK, you’ve made the case that anyone who is a suspect, or a criminal defendant, should never get a lawyer.
If one has “nothing to defend himself against”, there’s no need to defend himself.
If there is substance to that which one is defending himself, the self-defense against something won’t work.
So you’ve made your point that self-defense is pointless.
In radical reasoning it’s called circular logic and if you can say it fast three times it counts as confirmation. Another way is dialectic wall bouncing or short version. BS.
Uff da can’t tell the difference between an ellipse versus a circle. And that just so happened to be the hypothesis confirmed in Pavlov’s experimentally induced psychosis.
A) Trump should let his legal counsel defend Trump against Trump’s legal jeopardy.
B) Trump should let his legal counsel argue against Mueller if Trump has no legal jeopardy.
C) Legal defense against legal jeopardy is more effective than self-defense against legal jeopardy.
D) Tom Nash is unfamiliar with the figure of speech known as ellipsis.
L4D,..
I do know the meaning of the word “sesquipedalian”.
Did you get a degree with that?
L4D,…
If this were strictly a legal case involving
a team of prosecutors, Trump would be better off following your legal advice.
This is as much of a political battle as it is a legal one.
You said earlier if Trump is innocent, hus self-defense isn’t working.
And that if Trump is guilty, his self defense isn’t working.
Those statements ignore the political aspect of this.
Mueller may end up falling short of building a criminal case against Trump…..it’s hard to tell at this point how Mueller’s team will wrap this up.
There are other politically damaging outcomes for Trump, short of a Mueller conclusion that Trump commited a crime related to the 2016 campaign.
The investigation itself is politically damaging.
I think Trump is play to his base of supporters….that 35-40% that will likely stick with regardless of Mueller’s conclusion.
There is probably a larger ( than 35-40%) segment of the public that questions Mueller’s objectivity.
From a political perspective, I would not conclude, at this point, that Trump’s self defense was not working.
It’s too early to tell if it’s working, either.
But I think it’s a mistake to overlook the political aspects and objectives involved.
I forgot to thank L4D for adding the “Diane’s word of the day” feature to these threads.
Why do you characterize an all out attack as a defense. THAT is a false premise leading to an incorrect conclusion.
To whose all-out attack do you refer, Uff da?
Donald Trump has functioned inside and outside the law(s) all his life. His father and he were found guilty of racist profiling by not including Blacks as potential renters of their products. Instead of admitting this, they paid the fine but refused to acknowledge publicly that they had broken the law. This has been the line Trump walks and has walked all his life. Guilty, lawbreaker, in the wrong, these are all words for the little people.
Trump’s radar and that of his legal counsel is not focused on right and wrong but on getting away with whatever suits him, sometimes to a level of stupidity that is remarkable. Trump doesn’t tell the truth or lie based on the ethical issue but on the legal issue of never having to admit being in the wrong.
This foundation of responding to questions comes with the territory. Most, if not all, politicians have the ego which carries this parasite. It is common knowledge that you can’t get a straight answer from a politician. This is partially due to the fact that there is rarely a straight answer available as most issues are complex, but due in varying degrees to the fact that the politician’s ego can never see itself in the position where it has to admit a mistake. Somehow, the absolute ridiculous performance of a Clinton debating the semantics of the word sexual relationship is preferable to just saying yes, and it’s none of your business.
The difference between the politician and Trump is that the politician is aware of this problem and constantly designs its responses to avoid appearing to be speaking out of both sides of its mouth, getting caught in a contradiction or lie, and to some degree feels itself responsible to the public. Trump has no interest in what the public thinks other than his diminishing fan base of core supporters and those that wish to keep their jobs. Trump’s moves are all about his power, his ego, and his image. And, he’s very good at this. He has been doing it all his life.
As America becomes acclimated to this ego, it can really only wait for the results of its actions to appear. The problem is and will continue to be, how does one separate the reality from the lies and self aggrandizement? “Under Oath” means nothing to Trump.
The difference between the politician and Trump is that the politician is aware of this problem and constantly designs its responses to avoid appearing to be speaking out of both sides of its mouth, getting caught in a contradiction or lie, and to some degree feels itself responsible to the public.
Let me see if I understood your analysis correctly. The professional politician will communicate in a way that is intended to deceive their audience, so they are not getting caught in a contradiction or lie. And somehow President Trump’s tendency to not engage in that deception makes President Trump the liar? Somehow that makes President Trump the unstable one? Wow! That is brilliant! Yeah, no, https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o6fJfvpyLGGe3lNcc/200w.gif#2-grid1
i love the smell of burning false premises in the morning. You got the first part OK but the last phrase might be better if written as , to some degree appears to make itself responsible to the citizens.
Good job!
If I’m understanding the part you are referencing, the entire paragraph (in italics) was written by issac.
Please let me know if I misunderstood you.
Issac is a part of a machine called The Collective Of The Party. His programmer writes everything. I do believe they got the name from some Carterized Vietnam era Draft Dodger
I’m more anti draft than most and wonder why the draft was not abolished after Vietnam looked like they were getting close when all but Joan Baez quit.
But Rep. Charles Wrangel and company kept it in force and ready to go.
My personal opinion after 24 years regular army is if something is worth doing enough will come forward and if enough do not come forward it’s not worth doing.
Obviously where the left is concerned enough RoboClones are not coming forward to be programmed. Rememeber a machine part does not possess five senses and the ability to think . The Socialists do not allow that outside of their ruling class.
No, you don’t understand; yet you respond, hmm. Well, you can read to a point. What happens after the words pass the eyes needs to be scrutinized. Here there is a dysfunction, a break down. It can be categorized under the ‘You see what you want to see, hear what you want to hear, etc’. Or, it might just be something more serious. Check it out.
I clearly stated that they both do it but the average politician is aware of it. Trump is not, just a pathological liar.
Trump has no interest in what the public thinks…
No, you were not clear. If the average politician lies because they have an interest in what the public thinks, then why is it a logical conclusion that President Trump lies because he has no interest in what the public thinks? Based on your statement, you could also conclude he has no reason to lie because he has no interest in what the public thinks.
The fact is no politician or elected non-politician 😉 should be assumed to be making truthful and/or factual statements. Everything should be verified and lacking any reasonable evidence, the statements should be taken for what they are; at best, opinion, at worst, a lie.
True! It is not just Poor Isaac who thinks that deceptive and vague chatter is better than straight talk, but apparently the author of this piece. Which I suspect is not JT. To wit:
Huh??? One shouldn’t call a silly witch hunt a “silly witch hunt”??? And one should provide secure employment to witch hunters??? Lest one be called a “witch”???
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
That comment by JT caught my attention as well. “Your President now Mr. Trump; there are rules.”
All of that and not one source, not one site, not one cite, not one fact. So when di stop being Carterized Draft Dodger? That’s an example of when did you stop beating your wife and kids? It’s your next lesson in dialectic wall bouncing with bichi burger bun.
General observation on todays posts and thanks to the cognitives that DID participate though few and far between.
The fact is that Trump should never have viewed his role as fighting back in the midst of an FBI investigation.
A fact based on what, deep state guidelines? No Mr. President, these agencies within the executive branch are not yours to question. They don’t approve of you being President and they have the unwritten authority to bounce you from office as directed by their own secret society. This sounds similar to the Muslim clerics trying desperately to justify raping young girls. Don’t fight back, just take it.
Perhaps President Trump’s fighting back will lead to the IC/FBI/DNC to file for ethical bankruptcy.
I think he should get the Hillary treatment. Not under oath. His attorneys present, etc. and no notes taken.
Only if da Comey was still da director. He was a bit softer than da Mueller.
Nice tweet. Short and meangless.
For sure it will be recorded. Secret Service records everything.
While the keystone cops are stuck in the bumper car corral crashing into their own fake narratives, Trump has mastered Outwit, Outsmart, Outlast……………..
Comey could not say publicly that Trump was not under investigation because it was likely that he would become under investigation as the then current investigation continued. It would have put Comey in the same position as he was when he declared the Clinton investigation over and then had to go back with an opps, a public statement that she was again under investigation. Trump was too obtuse to understand.
Huuuh? Now that is dialectics that head butted itself into a self inflicted body slam.
I think you could use a diuretic, fool.
In light of all that is coming about this investigation, the actors and their intent you should drop this article and write one about how you should fight back with every tool available.
Poor article.
Mr Trump wants to be legal, wants to do the right thing, wants to stay out of trouble. He’s not evil. He is ignorant and mentally dysfunctional. When a person knows very little about laws and regulations, and has no sense of what is appropriate and what isn’t, he is likely to engage in illegal, wrong, and troublesome behaviors. The question is whether a mentally dysfunctional person who managed to be elected President, should be held accountable for his destructive behavior.
Trump is evil. How do you explain this one facet of his evil? A mistake?
Trump University was not a university but a bait and switch scam. Trump promised the moon and stars to very vulnerable people, hardline sales tactics were used encouraging victims to use their credit cards to fund the pricey tuition and the victims received…nothing.
All told, Trump stole $40 million dollars. After the class action suit (a veritable joke for recovery but all the victims could do to get something back), Trump paid back $25 million along with a $1 million dollar fine.
So Trump stole $14 million from thousands of Americans and got away with it.
That is craven obvious evil if I ever saw it. Let’s not even broach housing bigotry, tax fraud, 106 money laundering crimes, mafia ties, drug dealer ties, 22 sexual assault allegations and on and on.
Trump promised the moon and stars to very vulnerable people, hardline sales tactics were used encouraging victims to use their credit cards to fund the pricey tuition and the victims received…nothing.
What President Trump apparently fails to realize is promising the moon and stars to very vulnerable people, using hardline sales tactics to encourage victims to pay is only seen as a good if it’s facilitated through the USG Inc.
That reminds me of this quote: Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god.
Source, site, cites, key facts placed in evidence? you were doing so well ..
Again, the italicized 1st paragraph is from the author to whom I replied. The 2nd paragraph was my sarcastic opinion of that 1st paragraph. The quote however did not include the link to the source: http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/29872.html
If that sentiment is applied both ways you going to get deported back to your own country.