Below is my column in USA Today on the legislation proposed to combat Russian trolling and Internet campaigns. There is a serious threat to free speech in these measures, which mirror efforts from (ironically) countries like Russia and China. The serious threat is not a handful of Russians playing on our deep divisions, but rather the hacking operations and attempt to interfere with voting systems.
Here is the column:
Beware of politicians trying to make the Internet “honest again.” Democratic lawmakers responding to Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election want to increase the regulation of the Internet, from a dubiously named “Honest Ads Act” to the fining of sites for suspicious posters, to increased use of national security laws to scrutinize posters. Most of these measures would have had little if any impact on the Russian operation, but they could open the door to significantly curtailing free speech on the Internet.
There are three areas of illicit Russian activities: hacks of emails, attempts to compromise voting systems, and using posts and protesters to foment division. The first two areas are major threats that should be and can be addressed with new federal programs. However, after the recent indictment of 13 Russian nationals by special counsel Robert Mueller, politicians instead called for stripping away anonymity for Internet ads and cracking down on bots and trolls.
Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., has declared that 240 years after our founding, “our democracy is at risk. Russia attacked our elections, and they and other foreign powers and interests will continue to divide our country if we don’t act now.” However, “they” did not “divide our country.” We divided our country long before the Russians started posting juvenile pictures of Hillary Clinton in prison garb.
Clinton and Trump were the least popular candidates ever to run for the presidency, according to multiple polls. They hardly needed the help of a dozen or so Russians in St. Petersburg to materially add to those divisions. Indeed, the sheer premise of the operation was moronic. It was like trying to speed the descent of a falling locomotive by jumping up and down on it. We were already a nation plunging into political chaos with the selection of these two candidates and long simmering political divisions stretching back to the Bill Clinton administration.
There are hundreds of “legitimate” Democratic and Republican trolling sites (some supported by campaign activities) that did little but generate gossip, conspiracies and false stories. Hillary Clinton was infamous for her association with characters like Sidney Blumenthal and David Brock. Trump had dubious allies like Steve Bannon and Alex Jones. From the descriptions in the indictment, these Russians look like the tee-ball league in comparison to these major league players of political slime.
Nevertheless, Klobuchar declared last Sunday that it would be “a great idea” to pass legislation that said companies like Facebook Inc. and Twitter Inc. should be fined if they don’t remove automated accounts, or bots.
Likewise, Klobuchar, and her colleagues Mark Warner, D-Va., and John McCain, R-Ariz., have proposed the Honest Ads Act to require Internet companies to disclose more about their advertisers and store copies of all political ads for the public to view. The bill would also force campaigns that want to spend more than $500 on political ads, tech and ad platforms to make new disclosures to the government about the organizations that purchased them, the audiences the ads might have targeted, and how much they cost.
None of this would have stopped the Russians. Their Internet Research Agency reportedly bought about than $150,000 in ad space on Facebook (to put that in context, the Clinton campaign spent more than $140 million overall on ads before the campaign was even over. The Russians relied primarily on hundreds of false Facebook pages to distribute false information and worked with smaller blogs and sites that would not fall under most of the legislative proposals (for now). The advertising component was so minor that if they didn’t want to disclose details about it, they easily could have forgone ads altogether.
Other advocates outside Congress appear to want even greater forced disclosures. Claire Finkelstein, director of the Center for Ethics and the Rule of Law at the University of Pennsylvania, has called for compelled disclosure of funding sources for social media advertisements and political messaging. This could achieve what Russia, China, Iran and other authoritarian countries have demanded for years: the forced disclosure of associations and information, in particular by foreign organizations and NGOs seeking to support issues and causes.
Our closest allies have shown that the appetite of government to regulate Internet speech is insatiable. France has prosecuted Twitter for allowing people to post offensive comments and forced the company to strip posters of anonymity. Germany is moving to impose crippling fines on sites that it deems to be the source of “fake news.” Authoritarian countries like China have not missed the opportunity and have arrested hundreds for spreading “fake news.”
The near hysteria over this Russian operation far exceeds its real impact on our political system. In the end, these measures are likely to produce a greater reduction in free speech than trolls or moles on the Internet.
The most lasting damage could prove to be the result of the “fixes” rather than the original problem. We should focus on protecting our communication and voting systems and leave the Internet alone.
Jonathan Turley, a member of USA TODAY’s Board of Contributors, is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University, where he teaches constitutional and tort law. Follow him on Twitter: @JonathanTurley.
Wow, someone finally let Matt Taibbi off the leash – this is the journalist I used to know and respect.
“Nearly two years into the #Russiagate scandal, accusing people of being in league with Putin has become an almost daily feature of news coverage.”
” #Russiagate, from the start, was framed as an indictment not just of one potentially traitorous Trump, but all alternative politics in general. The story has evolved to seem less like a single focused investigation and more like the broad institutional response to a spate of shocking election results, targeting the beliefs of discontented Americans across the political spectrum.”
“The New Blacklist: Russiagate may have been aimed at Trump to start, but it’s become a way of targeting all dissent”
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/taibbi-russiagate-trump-putin-mueller-and-targeting-dissent-w517486
Thank you for sharing Taibibi’s article, Autumn! It was excellent!
Taibbi’s article makes the point that RussiaGate has been used to discredit progressive voices (and the misguided, disgruntled voters from the right wing). Taibbi’s work contributes to the growing realization that the richest 0.1% e.g. Murdoch, Koch’s, Mercer’s, hijack, at every opportunity, the means to get what they want.
Here is an excellent analysis of the big picture: “There is a paranoia happening in the US political establishment, remarkably similar to the one experienced during the Cold War era. It doesn’t matter whether the Russia-Collusion story is true or not (let’s not forget the United States has itself meddled in countless foreign elections ever since the end of WWII, even in Russia in 1996), it matters more what this ongoing investigation and grotesque media-hype is doing to the American public – and by extension to the rest of the world. The US-Russia relation is worse today than at the high point of the Cold War, all thanks to this constant Putin bashing and the fact that NATO is slowly encircling the Russia in Eastern Europe, Northern Europe, the Arctic, the Middle-East and Asia. Despite the West promising not to expand NATO an inch Eastwards as part of the German reunification deal, such promises have not been kept. But of course, most of the general population is fine this politically unwise expansion of NATO, “because you know, Russians are bad” (satire).
If there is a threat to national and global security today, and a threat to free speech and independent media, it is not coming from Putin or the Kremlin – but rather from the United States”
https://www.globalresearch.ca/russiagate-and-the-neo-mccarthyite-war-on-alternative-media-and-political-dissent/5630547
There was never such a promise regarding NATO. The only commitment was about East Germany. That has been kept.
DBB – actually there was but Gorby failed to get it in writing. NATO was not to move East.
Not according to Gorbachev himself. He specifically stated in an interview that nothing was said about other countries.
Well said Jill, it’s just an example of how, if you repeat something long enough, it will stick to some degree. It’s been Russia, Russia, Russia, 24-7. Now they want to use it roll back and control speech.
Plus, I love how the leftist totalitarian dinosaur Benson represents the authoritarian left with his Russia views. You can do a “tit-for-tat” on the fine lines of Russia relations over the last 15-20 years. Bottom line is NATO will be written in as the aggressor and destabilizer, especially well-documented in Ukraine. We intervened in the internal affairs and threw out a legal elected head of state (kind of makes you think like, “Hey… if it went so well there the way we did it, why not here….?????). We pushed Russia into the corner. Good for MIC, totalitarian leftists are good with it (as we see here, no dissenting opinion is to be tolerated–“Russia not nice, Russia get bombed”).
Maybe Benson can tell stories to his kids about how for 20 years we didn’t have to worry about planetary destruction, then tell them how we can look forward to several years of living under a first strike disadvantage from hypersonic kinetic weapons. Putin is a big meanie, yet we know how nice the Chinese were when they were given MFM. Thanks Clinton-Bush. The US should be in charge of a world trade block that extends from Alaska-Europe-Pacific. Now we’ve marginalized ourselves worked into a corner giving all our money to the fat, bloated MIC, because Russians. Maybe switch to terrorists again in 2021. Government truly working for all of us. And Parkland, too!
Benson is a scholar. Da rest of you are propagandists at a lower level of intelligence.
Autumn,
that was a good post by Matt and Slohrss, this, is a good analysis! Yes, we’re bringing back the fear of the Cold War–For The Children!!!
Slohrrss29 — Whatever happened in Ukraine, NATO had no part in it.
Just read the beginning and found the author to be a kook. “McCarthyism can be described as “the vociferous campaign against alleged communists in the US government and other institutions carried out under Senator Joseph McCarthy in the period 1950–4. Many of the accused were blacklisted or lost their jobs,”
What names did McCarthy reveal that cost people their jobs? The ones most often thought about occurred before McCarthy was even a senator. Either the author is confused or his rhetoric is purposely trying to confuse the reader.
The Venona Project released many years later proved McCarthy was essentially correct.
Jill, you quote and believe a lot of cr-p. Al Jazeera to you is real news when it is owned by Qatar who is the strongest supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood which would like to see you in chains.
Jill’s argument would be stronger if Russian dissidents didn’t get assassinated in countries like England,
if Putin’s domestic opponents didn’t succumb to odd ailments and, if the tactic of honey pots, was retired.
“The point here isn’t that public ownership is perfect; the point here is that public ownership means these immensely powerful technologies are accountable to the citizenry, rather than to profit-maximizing private owners and managers. You can’t have two masters, and the pathetic bleatings of billionaire technocrats about their “commitment” to democracy (while they spend millions lobbying Congress to protect their unaccountable New-Gilded-Age monopolies) cannot change this reality.”
http://washingtonsblog.com/
Reblogged this on The Inquiring Mind and commented:
As always in the name of freedom there is oppression and control. Back to 1984
JT you are engaging in passing on unverified or debunked “information”. I support your right to do this but I will correct this misinformation: There is no proof that Russia hacked Democratic e-mails. The source of those hacks (which many believe were leaks, not hacks) is not yet known. The attempts to compromise the voting system were actually probes trying to get into certain state systems. These were crude, unsuccessful and again, of unknown origin. The 13 trolls under a bridge story is a total joke. It was an internet site promoting anyone who would pay for being “promoted”. The fact that you still believe the things are Russian interference, without evidence, shows just how powerful propaganda is.
That said, you are exactly right that the whole purpose of these govt. lies was a trick to rile people up enough to give up the one right we somewhat had left to us-the right of free speech. That was the plan all along. It’s working.
Hopefully, we can undo this insanity. Perhaps it won’t matter since all the neo-liberals/cons want WWIII and there won’t be any speech any longer.
No one has forcibly argued with Mueller’s indictment of 13 Russians. And even Trump has stopped calling the meddling ‘fake news’. At least ‘for now’, he has. So it seems you’re in some right-wing media time warp by insisting that ‘no proof’ exists that Russia hacked those e-mails.
That hack was verified by every major intelligence agency. The hacker, known as Grucifer, was operating out of Romania. Western intelligence agents were well-aware of Grucifer. In fact, a former Trump campaign advisor, George Papadopoulous, drunkenly shot his mouth off at a London bar during the summer of 2016. It seems Papadopoulous knew about the hacking then. Papadopoulous is currently working with Robert Mueller and his testimony could implicate the Trump campaign. But again, right-wing media isn’t going to tell you this.
who the hell is “Grucifer”? You talking about Guccifer 2.0? The DNC emails were a leak, not a hack – all indications thus far point to the murdered staffer Seth Rich.
You need to tune into independent Progressive media:
or there is this with William Binney, former NSA computer genius. Totally blows the Guccifer 2.0 claims out of the water — dude falsified evidence just to f*ck with the US
Autumn – thought Guccifer was considered a fraud a couple of years back. He was off the list long ago and nobody believes him.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/tech/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/
Jill said, “You know that it wasn’t every intelligence agency don’t you? Just 3 known liars and even they weren’t all confident in their own assessments. Please don’t lie about stuff that’s important.”
Jill’s disinformation is out of date. (Check the link above, Jill) Jill refuses to incorporate new information into her analyses. Jill’s procedure is thoroughly bogus. If someone, anyone posts something, anything with which Jill disagrees, Jill immediately declares that person to be a liar and that person’s statements to be lies simply because Jill is so incomparably solipsistic that she cannot even conceive of the mere possibility that she might be wrong about anything at all. Jill is the personification of hogwash.
From the Wikipedia article on MintPress News:
“When asked about the MintPress News story, Åke Sellström, the chief U.N. weapons inspector in Syria remarked, ‘they are famous for 1001 Arabian Nights stories!'”
Meanwhile, Jill said, “This story on dutch agencies was debunked. (See Mint press news and other sites.)”
So Jill recommends a “site” that chief U. N. weapons inspector in Syria calls “. . . famous for 1001 Arabian Nights stories.” Why is that unsurprising? Well . . . Jill did recommend “other sites.” But she also neglected to name any of her other recommendations. Is it possible to debunk something, anything with discredited and non-existent sources? And to think, Jill calls Ken and Peter Hill liars because they dare to disagree with Jill.
This story on dutch agencies was debunked. (See Mint press news and other sites.)
The 17 intelligence agency was retracted by the MSM. Clinton sometimes uses it still for her not very bright followers, who still believe it happened despite all evidence to the contrary. Other than that, yours is a bizarre list of personal attacks.
People understand when other people can’t make arguments that’s because the personal attacker doesn’t have an argument to make. Good luck with all that kind of crap! Man up, Bot up or woman up and make a sane argument.
Jill said, “People understand when other people can’t make arguments that’s because the personal attacker doesn’t have an argument to make.”
Jill said, “This story on dutch agencies was debunked.”
Perhaps Jill imagines that the second of her statements quoted above is an argument. It is not an argument. It is a bald assertion of denial. Jill did not provide any argument that debunks the Dutch hack of Cozy Bear. But then Jill is right about her first statement quoted above. People understand that when Jill can’t make an argument that’s because Jill doesn’t have an argument to make.
As for this nonsense about personal attacks, Jill will be made to understand that she can’t poke Peter Hill in the eye with a sharp stick and then run and hide behind her mother’s skirts with sniveling complaints about L4D being mean to poor, innocent, unoffending Jill, who would only have us all believe the specter she has repeatedly raised that the Special Counsel’s investigation of Russian information warfare against The United States will precipitate World War Three (and eviscerate free speech in the bargain) unless the evil Mueller stops backing the virtuous Vladimir into a corner from which Putin will have no choice but to launch his new hypersonic missiles at Mar-a-Lago.
Oh! I forgot the best part. Jill also commanded L4D to, “. . . make a sane argument.”
Out of curiosity, Jill, when did Trump hand off the nuclear football to Bobby Three Sticks?????
http://www.newsweek.com/seth-rich-kim-dotcom-murder-wikileaks-fox-news-sean-hannity-russia-hillary-614307
Excerpted from the article linked above:
“The Rich family is tired of having to respond to accusations,” Brad Bauman, a family spokesman, said in a statement. “The burden of proof is on Mr. Dotcom to either prove he has evidence or face the consequences of damaging Seth’s good name and creating more emotional hardship on a grieving family. The family is not going to entertain his ridiculous, manipulative and completely non-credible statements.”
Excerpted from the article linked above:
“Dotcom is the founder of Megaupload, a now-defunct file hosting service that the Justice Department described in 2012 as part of “an international organized criminal enterprise allegedly responsible for massive worldwide online piracy.” The Justice Department charged Dotcom and others associated with Megaupload with engaging in racketeering conspiracy, conspiracy to commit copyright infringement, conspiracy to commit money laundering and criminal copyright infringement.
Authorities arrested Dotcom on those charges in Auckland, New Zealand, where he lived. In February, a New Zealand judge upheld an earlier court decision that said the country could extradite Dotcom to the U.S. That extradition has not yet happened. If convicted, he could face up to several decades in prison.”
Jill said, “We won’t get to know about it either because neither Congress nor Mueller will hear from Kim dotcom, an actual witness who knows some pieces of what happened with Rich and the download.”
Kim Schmitz is not a witness to anything other than his own online piracy, racketeering, copyright infringement and money laundering. And yet, Jill would have us all seriously believe that Mueller will not allow Kim Schmitz to testify about Seth Rich’s supposedly secret identity as “Panda” because Mueller will do nothing to save Kim Schmitz from the piracy, racketeering, copyright infringement and money laundering charges facing Kim Schmitz.
I predict that Jill will claim that the deep state, MIC, USGinc. conspiracy has framed Kim Schmitz on fraudulent charges. But of course Jill would say that. Wouldn’t she?
And not to put too fine a point on it, Jill, but you are just another mole in the ongoing Whack-A-Mole arcade game that Vladimir Putin and The Kremlin of The Russian Federation have been waging against the whole wide world since 2014. The only serious question, Jill, is whether you know that you’re just another Whack-A-Mole mole or you really, really, truly, truly do believe that Seth Rich was “Panda”?????
You know that it wasn’t every intelligence agency don’t you? Just 3 known liars and even they weren’t all confident in their own assessments. Please don’t lie about stuff that’s important.
There were a short series of what appears might have been hacks to the DNC. It is unknown who Guccifer is although many people think s/he was a low level player and not a Russian at all. It could be even the CIA using tools to make it look like the Russians did it. The FBI didn’t get to look at the DNC computers to analyze the “hack” so only the DNC’s hairdresser (Crowdstrike) knows for sure what happened here! You need to remember that Podesta’s password was: Password. It really wouldn’t take a braintruster to get through that!
The e-mails published by wikileaks are a separate issue. These were forensically analyzed (link to Binney in Autumns video). They could not have been a hack. We do not know who downloaded these but it could very well have been Seth Rich, (although this too, is still unknown). We won’t get to know about it either because neither Congress nor Mueller will hear from Kim dotcom, an actual witness who knows some pieces of what happened with Rich and the download.
If you think the DNC murdered Seth Rich, then you’re probably a follower of Alex Jones. Fox News, one should note, first promoted the Seth Rich murder conspiracy. They then backed off the story when Rich’s family threatened to sue. Rich lived in a so-called ‘transitional neighborhood’ of Washington D.C and was walking home at 5 in the morning (which could possibly get you murdered in any big city).
Regarding those videos, they’re produced for conspiracy mongers. That’s become an issue. Apparently Google’s Algorithm system has unwittingly pushed conspiracy videos in a very big way. Google engineers are currently at work trying to deal with that.
And finally I must point out that professor Turley freely acknowledges the Russian meddling. Now if you’re reading his blog, you must consider the professor credible. So don’t cherry-pick what Turley tells you about Donald Trump. He’s trying to sugarcoat these revelations for the consumption of his readers. But it’s clear that Turley knows how dangerous Trump is.
Wrong again Peter Hill re Seth Rich. The Progressive Left was on it and still is. Why do you think Wikileaks for the first time ever offered a cash reward for information? And Jared Beck as well as many others on the Indy Left have continued to bring up his assassination.
Sorry, you can’t blame it on Fox, InfoWars, Breitbart or other Right wing media.
Those of us who consider ourselves to be Left, but Independent will continue to dig into the story as well as the Awan Pakis/DWS/Clinton Foundation/emails on her server…………
Trump is dangerous?? Well, you shoulda thought about that before you allowed HRC to be your candidate and screw Bernie. We, and the rest of the world are still suffering the poisonous fruits of her labor – Syria, Libya, Iraq, Honduras, Ukraine
also, Pulitzer Prize Winner Seymour Hersh said Rich was the DNC leaker
Wikileaks offered that reward as a BS gesture to conspiracy mongers. No serious journalist fell for that stunt. And why did Fox News back off the Rich story?? Why did Rich’s family threaten to sue Fox News? Didn’t they want to learn the truth?
And ‘who’ is the “progressive left” with regards to Seth Rich? A bunch of Bernie Bros..? The Bernie Bros, for the record, were actively posting memes from Russian trolls. They demonstrated, many times, their lack of sophistication regarding American politics.
Regarding Donald Trump, it seems that no matter how erratic or irrational Trump behaves on any week, his supporters always respond with “What about Hillary’s e-mails?” “What about Benghazi?” “What about the IRS scandal?” The idea seems to be that we can’t possibly discuss Donald Trump without first reviewing every right-wing media ‘scandal’ involving Hillary or Obama.
If you can’t discuss Donald Trump without going down a rabbit hole of unrelated ‘conspiracies’, then you don’t have much confidence in Trump. This is where America is at right now. Trump refused to show his taxes, refused to divest from his businesses and spent an entire year calling Russian meddling ‘fake news’.
What’s more, Trump’s son-in-law, a White House Senior Advisor, has been working all this time without security clearance! Jared Kushner is in debt up to his eyeballs. He never should have gotten anywhere near the White House. Kushner had no experience in government. Nor did Trump. It’s the blind leading the blind. But somehow, in the minds of Trump supporters, everything always comes back to Hillary.
Peter Hill,
You might not have been aware but the website shunts comments containing the longform version of “BS” into moderation. I’ve edited this and released your comment. If you post without this word it should work for you.
Interesting. Thanks.
They gotta keep da fake Seth Rich story goin to cover for Putin’s murders.
” No serious journalist fell for that stunt.” Who are “serious journalists”?! They take their stories directly from the Deep State. They are livid that all the stories about Trump STILL did not deter people voting for him because they could not stand HRC.
Assange has NEVER had to issue a retraction. Neither has Glenn Greenwald,
Unlike the Wash Compost, NYT, CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc.
Remember Mad Cow taking the fake story of chair throwing by Bernie bros in Vegas? Unlike Julian Assange she does not vet and took the now disgraced “Dean of Journalism” at his lies.
“Assange has NEVER had to issue a retraction. Neither has Glenn Greenwald,”
That is a pretty broad statement Autumn has made. I have nothing against Glenn Greenwald who I occasionally read, but there is no law forcing one to issue a retraction when one reports incorrectly or is misleading. That is the type of research Autumn does to come up with some of her views on the Middle Eastern affairs taken in part from websites that have anti-Semitic contributors and have willfully distorted history. Siding with terrorists that blow up children and potentially supporting them financially doesn’t generally appeal to normal people.
I recall a recent fight about 2 years ago between Glenn Greenwald and PJ Media. P.J. Media pointed out numerous occasions where Glenn Greenwald was either incorrect or misleading. I don’t think he ever corrected any of these errors. This has happened with other media as well.
I think Autumn needs to do better research before drawing any conclusions.
By the way Autumn. The problem between Israel and the Palestinians has nothing to do with what you might call occupied land. If it were all about land there would have been no 1967 war.
Allan,
re: “there is no law forcing one to issue a retraction when one reports incorrectly or is misleading” – you are correct – it is a matter of ethical journalism and MSM too often has none.
Regarding Israel: you should read Gideon Levy — or watch some YouTube videos. Also Noam Chomsky or Michael Peled. Those come readily to mind – there are more. You are self-limiting yourself when it comes to Zionism. Expand your horizons and you’ll understand why this expansion is so horrible.
” you are correct – it is a matter of ethical journalism and MSM too often has none.”
We agree on that, but because I have seen evidence that Greenwald hasn’t been as good as he should in this area I have a tendency not to trust him as much as I would like.
You point to all the haters of Israel that manipulate and lie about history. I accept claims about Israel that differ from my own when they base those claims on fact. That is not what you have done. You rely on fiction from some of the worst. Take Noam Chomsky who was in Cambodia at the time of the “Killing Fields” stating how wonderful things were. He is an ideologue who cannot sustain a debate on important world topics.
Jews have lived in the Middle East long before Mohammed and before Jesus. Their presence has been continuous. Israel was created out of the British mandate and Israel got the short end of the stick. Many Arabs at the time of the Balfour Declaration were supportive. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a supporter of Hitler and the final solution and radicalized many people while creating his own SS troops. When Israel became a state its Arab neighbors would not make peace with it. The Arabs that left Israel did so mostly on their own accord based on what their leaders told them to do. About 700,000 Palestinians left the land of Israel. In the other Arab lands the Jews were being killed and told to leave without their possessions or be killed. Anti-Semites forget about the Jewish claims of 700.000 to 800,000 or more that were forced from their land and will never be permitted back.
If Israel was accepted by the Arab nations they would not be in the disputed lands. Instead, Israel was constantly under attack from much larger and more populous neighbors. Israel is smaller than N.J. and the distance from the green line to the Mediterranean is very small. It can be walked in 2-3 hours. We don’t hear from the anti-Semites why the Arabs attacked Israel when their borders were within the green line. We don’t from the anti-Semites about the Hamas Charter that pledges to cleanse the land of all Jews. We don’t hear those things from those people because they are anti-Semites. We don’t hear that Arafat refused peace when he was given almost all the land he wanted. We don’t hear it from anti-Semites that the money meant for Palestinians goes to the families of slain martyrs that killed children. We don’t hear any concern from anti-Semites that Israel is surrounded by enemies that have about 150.000 rockets pointed at Israel’s population centers. Nor do we hear that the rockets are launched from schools and hospitals forcing women and children to remain there and be killed should the Israeli’s respond.
Peace was possible from day one except for the Arab nation’s exploitation of the Palestinians. The Arab nations had vast unpopulated lands but they placed the Palestinians behind barbed wire so they could be used as political tools. That is where much of the money goes. The children are now taught that Jews are monkeys and pigs and survive off the blood of others. They are taught to hate and kill Jews. That doesn’t help the cause of peace and neither do the rantings of the anti-Semites.
Peter,
I didn’t say anything about the DNC killing Seth Rich but you did! How interesting that you said that!
Instead of calling something a theory about a conspiracy 🙂 can’t you argue any of your ideas without personal attacks? I’m not seeing you present an argument, just name calling.
I don’t agree with everything JT says. That’s a job for a cult follower, not a freely thinking human being. There is no cherry picking. I can think things out for myself and I can actually back up my arguments. Calling people right wing as a way to dismiss their argument is just silly. If you have actual information, lay it out. Lay out not lies, as you did above about the IC agencies, lies you know are lies, but speak plainly and with truth.
Can you tell us why Binney’s analysis is incorrect? Please do. I would like to know why you think he is incorrect. Can you say why you think kim dot com is lying? Do you have support for your positions or just mindless personal attacks.
In the course of social media debates, many people respond by posting youtube videos. Sometimes they’ll post several videos expecting their debate opponent to dutifully view each tape. As a matter of policy, I only look at these videos if they are from established news sources.
Anyone can post a video on youtube. And anyone does! So-called 9 / 11 ‘truthers’ are dependent on youtube videos to back up their arguments. But if you’re argument is sound, and widely referenced in mainstream media, you don’t need a youtube video to explain yourself.
Peter Hill – the alt-media has the time to dig into a story a length and is a better resource than the Lame Stream Media. Judicial Watch has a weekly video drop and often one or two in between with updates. I just watch one this morning which I will not be following because I do not think the person’s elevator goes all the way to the top, but I do follow three commentators faithfully.
Like every piece of new information, you have to filter it through what you already know to see if it fits. I think you might take the time to look at a couple of the videos. BTW, some of the videos are from older movies. 🙂 That is more of a running in-joke between some of us who have been around the block several times.
Peter,
I’m just going to point out that you earlier complained about people who brought in what you considered tangential topics. Now you’re bringing in 9/11! I don’t think you have a real complaint regarding tangential topics!
You still just make charges and don’t back them up. I understand if you don’t want to watch a video. Just skip that post but you were responding to me with all kinds of lies and personal attacks and I didn’t post any videos. Man-up, Bot-up or Woman-up and start making real arguments with evidence to back them up!
Well Jill I originally questioned your contention that Professor Turley was “spreading lies”. He’s not. Professor Turley is better informed than you. But instead addressing the subject at hand, you insisted on going down the right-wing media rabbit hole involving endless conspiracies.
Hang in there, Peter Hill. You’re doing good work. And the fact that you’re being assailed simply for disagreeing with your adversary effectively proves that your work has hit its mark.
You see, Jill believes that anything contrary to her beliefs is a lie and the contrarian a liar. The psychiatrists call that a self-reinforcing delusion. In Jill’s case, it is also a paranoid delusion. And the proof for that is Jill’s repeated claim that the Special Counsel’s investigation will precipitate World War Three unless someone stops Mueller from provoking Putin any more than Mueller already has provoked Putin. Of course, it’s not really the prospect for World War Three that has Jill so terribly bent out of shape. It’s the prospective loss of her self-reinforcing paranoid delusions about the deep-state, MIC, USGInc. conspiracy theory when it collides, as it inevitably must, with reality. For those beliefs of hers remain what gives Jill that thrilling feeling of being alive in the world and deeply engaged with the world’s issues just so long as no contrarian “liar” ever disagrees with Jill’s “worldview.”
Perhaps that’s not the mark at which you were aiming, Peter Hill. But you hit it, anyway.
Many of the videos I post are in reference to MSM lies and actual footage is used. But that’s certainly your perogetive not to view them. It’s safer to remain in the bubble.
As for me I get lots of information (with sources!) from “jag-off” comedians like Jimmy Dore, Lee Camp and Ron Placone.
Excerpted from the Wikipedia article on MintPress News [recommended by Jill]:
“In November 2016, a MintPress News article entitled ‘Media Blackout As Millions Of Muslims March Against ISIS In Iraq’ became a top trending story on Facebook, which prompted criticism as the article was misleading. BuzzFeed countered, ‘This week has seen millions of Shiite Muslims participate in Arbaeen, one of the world’s largest pilgrimages, in Iraq. But they are not specifically marching against ISIL, nor has there been a ‘media blackout.'” BuzzFeed noted the article was sourced from American Herald Tribune, a website edited by Canadian professor Anthony Hall, a 9/11 and Sandy Hook shooting conspiracy theorist who had been suspended from his job at a university on charges of antisemitism. MintPress stood by its story.”
Peter Hill, you called it. Right on the money. Jill recommended MintPress News run by one Mnar Muhawesh, who sourced an article to a 9/11 false-flag theorist who is also a Sandy Hook false-flag theorist. Believe it or not, Peter Hill, but it actually gets better or worse depending upon how you feel about conversing with paranoiacs. Stay tuned.
From the Wikip[edia article on MintPress News [recommended by Jill]:
“MintPress News was founded by Mnar Muhawesh . . . [a]fter posting her own work on a blog, in 2011 she decided to launch her own news site. Muhawesh said she believed ‘our media has failed us very miserably’ . . . citing uninformed public debates around issues like Iran’s nuclear capabilities, or intervention in Syria. MintPress News said it was a for-profit ‘regular news organization, ‘with an initial business plan where advertising revenues would exceed costs after three years. However, in 2013 . . . Muhawesh said she restructured the business plan and was now the sole investor financing MintPress.”
Would you believe that a former blogger is the “sole investor” financing her own “news organization” that just so happens prominently to feature “news coverage” in favor of Bashar Al Assad and his Iranian and Russian backers who, in turn, have nothing whatsoever to do with financing said “favorable coverage,” and that Jill recommends that site to debunk the Dutch hack of Cozy Bear? Would you believe . . . . .
Would you believe that WWAS once said, “Jill speaks the truth as always”??? Calling WWAS. Where are you? Would you believe that I’ve been overlooking Jill’s wretched excesses for weeks now on the sole basis of WWAS’ endorsement of Jill’s supposed truthfulness? I ask, WWAS, because, frankly, I can’t believe it myself. What was I thinking? Obviously I wasn’t thinking at all. Shame on me.
Oh, btw, there’s nothing at MintPress News to debunk the Dutch hack of Cozy Bear. Surprise again.
Diane – https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-26/dutch-cozy-bear-farce-does-not-show-dnc-emails-were-hacked-russians
Try this.
I’ve read that article three times now, Paul. It does not debunk the Dutch hack into Cozy Bear. In fact, that article concedes that the Dutch hacked into Cozy Bear in 2014 and helped the NSA and FBI ward off a Cozy Bear hack of the State Department in 2014. Instead of debunking the Dutch hack of Cozy Bear, the article merely raises doubt about the Dutch intelligence team actually witnessing the Cozy Bear hack of the DNC.
IOW, the zerohedge article is a blatant self-contradiction masquerading as a debunking operation. Because Dutch intelligence witnessed Cozy Bear hacking the State Department in 2014, therefore, according to zerohdge, Dutch intelligence did not witness Cozy Bear hacking the DNC in 2016. That’s grasping at straws. Paul. Not debunking. Meanwhile, you all are stuck with Kim Schmitz. Good luck with that.
Diane – you see anything in that article that says the Dutch watched Cozy Bear hack the DNC servers? NO. You want it to be the Russians because it means a whistleblower from the DNC did not give the emails to Wikileaks. Why would Assange put up a $10,000 reward for finding the murderer of Seth Rich if he were not a source of information? Why does the FBI have his laptop? Why won’t they release it?
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/dutch-intelligence-hacked-video-cameras-in-office-of-russian-who-hacked-dnc/
There’s an old saying in the spygame: Nothing is true until the Russians deny it. Well, Russia has been denying the hack of the DNC and Podesta right from the get-go. And so have Jill and Autumn. More recently Jill has taken to calling people liars who accept that the Russians hacked the DNC and Podesta. Well, at least Autumn just calls us gulls, marks, pigeons and dupes.
The time is long past due to let Seth Rich rest in peace–you shameless propagandists, you.
Diane – don’t you think we should find his murderer? And if his murder was connected to Wikileaks, don’t you think we should know?
Many murders every day in da district. Hope da police find da murderers. Da Brits are sayin T rump’s pal in corruption poisoned another dude.
re: “Well, at least Autumn just calls us gulls, marks, pigeons and dupes.” Whaat? I call all y’all cult members, Dims and sometimes stupid/ignorant. Maybe I’ll start using “dupes” or “gulls” though.
And no, we are not going to let the murder of Seth Rich go. As we won’t the Awan bros & shady Dim reps who utilized their “services”, HRC’s emails…..etc etc
Autumn, read my replies to Jill upstream from here. Kim Schmitz is an online pirate facing racketeering, copyright-infringement and money-laundering charges that could put him in prison for several decades, if convicted. Kim Schmitz invented his Seth Rich was “Panda” hoax out of whole cloth for the express purpose of trying to wheedle his way into a plea-deal for a reduced sentence. You are literally staking your Seth Rich claims upon the all-too-obvious lies of a notorious felon. Go ahead on and call us DIMS what ever you will. But on the odd chance that you, like Jill, really, really, truly, truly do believe Kim Schmitz, then you simply must be a gull, a mark, a pigeon, a dupe, a bumpkin, a yokel, a hayseed and a rube all rolled up into one great cult ignorant stupidity.
But, hey, at least you’re still a free-thinker–eh, Autumn? Now leave Seth Rich alone.
TRUMP ADMITS RUSSIA MEDDLED AT TUESDAY NEWS CONFERENCE
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-vows-to-counteract-any-russian-interference-in-2018-elections/2018/03/06/fde7da52-215a-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html?utm_term=.3455d54cd6bc
What are the chances that Trump will admit that he admitted that Russia meddled??? He had previously denied that he had denied it. Maybe Trump will sue Putin. Maybe Putin will countersue. Maybe Turley will base his future analyses of the Russia investigation on the question of who sues the other one first.
I hope some day that we’ll learn to keep big government out of our lives. We are better off when we as individuals and our free market police our institutions.
donkichoff speaks for oligarchs like the Koch’s, whose PR about “freedom” is a false flag for leaving the 99% with nothing left to lose. Labor is currently receiving the lowest share of national income in U.S. recorded history. Six Walton heirs have wealth equivalent to 40% of Americans combined. Paul Ryan’s campaign got $500,000 from the Koch’s, immediately after the tax scam bill was passed.
Linda, your statistics are an outcome of the Obama failed economic recovery.
You may want to update your thinking with current statistics showing 4,000,000 hard-working, ordinary Americans who have received bonuses, raises, 401K matches from thousands of companies as a result of the GOP Tax Reform bill that Nancy Pelosi called “crumbs”:
https://www.atr.org/list
Let’s keep government out of our lives.. until the next hurricane hits.
It’s painful to read an argument against full disclosure. It’s not surprising that Turley inflicted the pain. It’s anticipated that he would defend dark money.
Famely of Krypniks. Sadomskiy Vladimir and Bronya is planing to rob Krypniks in the future and even kill them. Evgeniy is also looking for the problem against Krypnik. Krypnik must wacht himself!
Klobuchar, Warner, D-Va., and McCain — all globalists and corporate whores. Not an ounce of patriotism between ’em.
How bout these appalling mo fos actually DO something for voters such as PAPER ballots & getting money out of elections.
Here in Washington state we have paper ballots, mailed in. System copied from Oregon.
Lucky you. Here we have machines – push the buttons and hope our vote went to our candidate of choice. I would like to vote and have a receipt – you know – like at a grocery store
Write to your state congesscritters.
Ha! You do know I live in SC right? The best I can hope for right now is that Linda Graham loses his seat.
Autumn – could be worse, you could live in AZ like I do.
Twitter took down Jared Beck’s Twitter (the attorney suing the DNC for fraud) – he wrote too much about Seth Rich, the Awan bros as well as questioning the official narrative of the shooting in FL.
Meanwhile the Russians are busy working on their own Internet. – I think it would be sad to the web balkanized but I understand why countries wouldn’t want to be at the mercy of the tech giants.
“Russia ready to be cut off from internet with its own web”
https://www.rt.com/business/420508-russia-internet-shutdown-sanctions/
Autumn,
We need a complete replacement for the internet here too. There are new versions of FB, Google, etc. and I think this is the time to switch. Ultimately, the govt. controls the electricity but it’s a chance.
JIll, KimDotcom may be able to create such a system — if he’s not hauled out of NZ first
Yes. There are a lot of mad genius around and they could do it! DARPA made the first internet, but people who want good things for others can come together and make another, better version for us all.
Whatever happened to soapboxes?
The same thing that happened to the Town Criers, I suspect. Oy geveldt
Happy to have found your site Jonathan! I’ve enjoyed your commentary for years and I appreciate the intellectual honesty you bring to the table. It’s a rare commodity these days.
I’m afraid that political expediency trumps (pardon the pun) the Constitution these days. Maybe the leaders of the past were just as craven and self-serving as the ones we see today, but it sure seems to me like there was a better stock of statesmen (and women) in days gone by. It’s my genuine hope that the Constitution weathers the storm, but of late I’ve become decidedly pessimistic. My party is in power, but it is demonstrably no better than the other side. When that happens, where do we turn?
If you read comments, I’d love to hear your take.
Google, YouTube, and Twitter are trying to ban conservatives before the midterms. This is just another effort.
And your evidence is?
I don’t believe you.
David Benson – believe what you want however they are shutting down the conservative sites on YouTube and desubscribing people from conservative sites so you have to constantly check to see if you are still subscribed to a YouTube site. Twitter is banning people left and right. Google, of course, owns YouTube and they are using the same algorithm on Twitter and YouTube to ban people.
Paul – I suspect that the reason the sites being banned are not being shut down simply because they are conservative. What is the official explanation for those actions and is there any validity?
enigma – many are going to duplicate platforms. I suggest to go to YouTube and find styxenhammer666 and check out his videos on censorship. He has to live with it. I subscribe to 5 channels that have been on edge about being “violated” for violating the TOS, which seem to change with the wind. Styx does a better job explaining the problem than I do.
I listened to Styx, (time I’ll never get back) and what he doesn’t say is that people are being censored for being “conservative.” His problem seems to be with, “the man.” whose interests are purely financial as opposed to ideological.
enigma – it is how they make money. For some of them, like Styx, it is part of his day job. 😉 And they are attacking some progressive sites, ones that the liberals don’t like. Ones that supported Bernie and Jill Stein.
You’re the kind of guy who could be living in the USSR during Stalin’s times and who would keep saying everything is fine until the day they come to take you away to the Gulag.
Curri’s comment has an Interesting parallel in Turley’s incredibly weak argument. “The amount spent was so little.” When justifying a plan to do nothing, extrapolations, predicting the future should precede.
Paul, not just conservatives. Progressive indies and Libertarians as well. Any person or group who puts out info different than the Legacy Media narratives or dares question.
So my friend Tim Black got censored on YouTube
This just keeps getting creeepier. It makes me wonder if USGinc. is going to do that war real soon and are beta testing what they can get away with.
Issac, that billion and a half could have gotten us(American citizens) the matriarch of a crime family.
The American system of electing its representatives is perverse and all but invites this sort of tampering. The entire system is based on tampering by the oligarchs that fund it to the tune of a billion and a half special interest dollars that got us the idiot we now have for President instead of the sleaze ball we would have had if the US were a true democracy. The flag here is that these two deplorables were our only choices.
Until the system runs on a limited contribution of a $100.00 per registered voter and no money other than that, the subject matter of our elections will be, as always, trash, and trash is what we get. Any two bit country can sway our elections because there is no integrity, no focus on important issues, no common sense, nothing but trash.
Follow an election in one of the more successful democracies where concentrated private funding is against the law. Then reflect on our circuses. Two parties, us against them, a total circus of idiots performing for their audiences, the Russians don’t even have to try hard. Throw out the oligarchs. The elections belong to the people. The people should fund them equally, not the mega rich. Didn’t this country fight a revolution against that sort of thing?
Not your country for a couple of reasons so it isn’t your worry except where ….and when… are you goinig to live next?
Reason one. As a devotee of a foreign ideology and having taken allegiance to same you rejected citizenship in our country.
Reason two. We’re not even sure you are an American to begin with. having shown no evidence.
But the easy test is ask people like this what kind of poltiical system we live in and if they say a Democracy kick them in the hind parts unti lthey land in whatever they were thinking about.
A republic is a representative democracy. Fans of Limbaugh are easily recognized as his ditto heads.
One could argue that an adult making a choice to become American is at the very least, just as American as is one who was merely born here. One could argue that in many cases an adult who decided to become American is a greater American than many, many of those who were simply born here. One could argue a lot of things but regardless of whether or not one was born here or immigrated, the system remains an oligarchy. As for the semantics of Democracy versus Republic, our representatives are supposed to be voted in by the people, being the best of the best. Instead they are presented by the oligarchs as the puppets they are. This is uniquely American and disgusting.
I am a devotee of common sense and truth. I remain a Canadian/American, perhaps a North American. My views are outward and forward, not inward and backward. My hopes are for the same system the founding fathers fought for, not this circus. Those that mindlessly follow a system as it rots from within, present the greatest danger.
issac – you are no more or less American than the rest of us. Although you might know the 3rd verse to National Anthem. If you see yourself as a North American, you need to renounce your American citizenship and return to Canada.
Paul
Sequestering in biased tribes is where we evolve from. Uniting on common ground is where we’re going. There is a phenomenon typical of the young, old, and those of limited mental means; of circling the wagons, even when not attacked. For the young it is typically a result of the transfer of allegiance from the family to the country or the need to belong. For the old it is a result of the natural withdrawal that comes with age: seen it all, heard it all, loss of job society, etc.; in other words the easy boy perspective. For those of limited mental means it ranges from inability to laziness; in other words too much trouble to stand on one’s own and acquire a perspective of one to all.
The entrenchment and re-entrenchment of America can be seen graphically in cycles. Typically it is the right and the Republicans that use this rally round the flag routine, whether it is needed or not. The Republicans have made more political gain using the us versus them routine than Democrats. Not, that it doesn’t exist on the left. However, review the recent Presidential election to see the obvious use of: blame, division, lies, exaggerations, buffoonery, etc. It was the predominant weapon of the Turnip.
I believe that enlightenment is hindered by retreating, that forcing a decision due to religion, tradition, or sacred dictums should be always tempered by the realities of the moment. That is evolution. Yesterday’s sacred truths give way to today’s stark realities. This is how the future is made.
You Moron! The biggest money of all in the election system is called WELFARE. It is the trillions of dollars Democrats paid to blacks and other losers for their vote. Do you really think some fat ghettopotamus with 3 b*st*rd kids would even bother to vote if there wasn’t something in it for her??? Sheeeesh, but you’re oblivious to reality.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Balderdash.
Most don’t bother to vote.
Are you ever right about anything???
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/12/black-voter-turnout-fell-in-2016-even-as-a-record-number-of-americans-cast-ballots/
Take this smackdown as evidence that you need to start doing your homework before you put your foot in your mouth! I also expect a:
“You were right, Squeeky! I am sorry I said “balderdash” to you, and I promise to start looking stuff up before I just jump out there and say stupid stuff! Thank you for educating me!”
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Maybe Pew is just citing legitimate research or maybe its an example of their ideological branch e.g. their cozy relationship with John Arnold’s anti-pension attacks.
Maybe you’re an idiot.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – I think it is more likely you are correct. 😉 Still, we would have to test her.
Reference for comment- Salon.com 11.19. 2013 “The Pew Center on the States began ratcheting up its now infamous campaign to slash pension retirement benefits.” (David Sirota) Subsequent Pew research showed the premises of Pew relative to pensions were erroneous- an embarrassment for Pew ideologues.
Pew also works with John Arnold on community surveillance projects (Town and Country)
Linda, you silly twat! Do you have any idea what you are blathering on about? Remember, you never answered my question to you about how Paul Ryan/tax cuts were going to harm social security? So, I doubt you can articulate any response to this question, but just for poops and giggles, Why would Pew, or anyone, want to slash pension benefits??? Explain it for us, please.
Plus, I hereby change my “maybe you’re an idiot” to a “you are an idiot.”
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
One of your party’s heroes, LBJ, talking about how poll taxes don’t hinder black Americans from voting in Texas: “I’ve got to prove it discriminates. And I can’t prove it in Texas. There’s more n!ggers voting there than white folks.”
The “other losers” far outnumber blacks receiving welfare. But you already know this, don’t you?
Not as a percentage, they don’t! I have provided you the numbers in the past. Are you in the early stages of Alzheimer’s???
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
The great majority of welfare recipients are white yet you single out black ones. It is you that might consider why that is?
I know why it is, and what is more, I have told you before why it is? Are you in the early stages of Alzheimer’s??? I will tell you once more, and maybe you should write it down!
I single out blacks for several reasons. 1)They are the “face” of welfarism, and every time that Congress or State legislatures try to cut back on the travesty of paying women to produce b*st*rds, they are accused of “racism”! White people don’t usually mind cutting white people off welfare, but run in terror from being called racissssts! 2)Welfare has destroyed the black community. Not Institutionalized Racism, White Privilege, Mass Incarceration, or any of that bullsh*t. Just plain old “benefits.” The illegitimate black birth rate is now up to 77%, and that trashiness slops over into the nice, white community via crime, tax increases, etc. 3)Blacks have taken the bribe and vote 90% for the Democrats, and the Democratic Party is what will kill America.
Now, like I said, write it down so that I don’t have to tell you again.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
You tell us all your version of the world. Perhaps you should write a book about, “The Nice White Community And How Other Races Ruin It For Them?”
Nobody would need to buy the book. They can just visit New Orleans, or Memphis, or Detroit, or Baltimore, or Chicago, etc. to see how Other Races Ruin It For Them. Or, they can just look at their tax returns. That is, those that don’t already know it.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
I had a response involving Appalachia, the Opioid Crisis, and white people, but I realized I was stooping to your level and decided to do better. You just go on keeping hate alive. Take care!
No, go ahead and make your remark about the various white trash. Know what? You won’t find me making excuses for them! You won’t find me blaming the Civil War from some trashy white chick having three or four little b*st*rds running around the trailer while she is shacked up with some meth head. Nope, I will put the blame right back on them for how they behave.
That would be a great object lesson for you! Sooo, pleeeeeaze make your remark!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Nah! Enjoy your day.
@Enigma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq-be7Y_yyY
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
If ole Abe Lincoln said it on the intertubes then it must be true. Damn, now Trump supporters will be looking up what Lincoln said on the internet. My bad.
Not bad just an untutored idiot. and it’s your place to back up what you claim not ours. Clean your own diapers. You think because youi said something exists it wil be believed? But you have proven the saying stupid is as stupid does and my proof for bringing that up needs only pointing to what you write. Ad machina for as we all know a defective machine part is nothing more than a defective machine part.
Reblogged this on NewsWarsMedia.
Near hysteria??? Eau Contraire! Full hysteria!
The greater danger we face is not treating Twitter and Facebook like utilities, and stopping them from attacking conservatives and right wing groups. Tommy Sotomayor has had his stations taken down numerous times on Youtube, as has Colin Flaherty. Twitter banned Milo, and the other day, some Tweeter for saying mean things about Maxine Waters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64gTjdUrDFQ
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter