Criminal law, Lawyering, Politics

Prelude For Pardons Yet To Come? Trump To Pardon Scooter Libby

LEWIS LIBBY PORTRAITPresident Donald Trump has reportedly signed a full pardon for Scooter J. Libby, the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. Given the conviction for allegations against Libby, it is hard not to draw an analogy to figures like Michael Flynn or even Michael Cohen.

Libby was convicted in 2007 of lying to the FBI and obstruction of justice in the investigation into the leak of the identity of Valerie Plame, a former covert CIA agent.  Notably, President George Bush refused Cheney’s effort to secure a pardon. He felt it was inappropriate since Libby falsely told the FBI that he could not have been the source for the Plame leak due to the late date of his learning about her identity.  Later, witnesses came forward to contradict Libby and reveal that he told them about her identity long before the date he gave the FBI for when he first learned the information.

Instead of a full pardon, Bush commuted Libby’s 30-month sentence so he never had to go to prison.  Libby later had his law license restored.

There is a growing concern that Trump could attempt to derail the Special Counsel investigation with pardons for his former associates.  This concern is particularly great with regard to Michael Cohen.  However, we still do not know what evidence of criminal conduct was referred to the Southern District of New York involving Cohen.  The closest analogy to Libby’s case would be Michael Flynn. Indeed, Flynn is in a better position since Comey’s investigators reportedly concluded that he did not intend to mislead the FBI in denying that he discussed sanctions with Russian diplomats during the transition period.

The Libby pardon does serve to remind people that other presidents used this power to protect their former aides.  Could it be a prelude of pardons to come?

 

219 thoughts on “Prelude For Pardons Yet To Come? Trump To Pardon Scooter Libby”

  1. Comey pardoned Hillary. Mueller pardoned Mueller. Given who Obama pardoned, Trump pardoning Scooter Libby is a nothingburger.

    1. National security is a nothing burger with conservatives until they are chasing votes. Then, the veterans line up to hear GOP politicians pander to them. No money for assistance but lots of thanking them for their service. Republican Erik Prince, now he’s a man who knows the $ value of U.S. security.

      1. National security is a nothing burger with conservatives

        I gather you must be about 17 years old.

        1. Sounds like someone who lives in a reality based world. All your facts and you will never understands or at least pretend so.

  3. Article 2, Section 2

    “…and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”
    ____________________________________________________________________________________

    I’m gonna take a wild guess that anyone, including the President, may receive a Presidential pardon unless he has been impeached by Congress.

    Rosenstein/Mueller’s illegally appointed special counsel investigation, without a crime or “articulable facts,” and “fishing expedition,” as an unconstitutional continuation of the 2016 election, will have ultimately been an exercise in futility.

    The President may be impeached for absolutely nothing, or as a ham sandwich, if the votes can be gathered in Congress.

    The Sovereign, the People, will pass judgement in November, 2018.

      1. There is no legal basis for the appointment of a special counsel. Rosenstein engaged in an egregious abuse of power by appointing a special counsel for political not legal purposes as a co-conspirator in a coup d’etat against the duly elected government of the United States for which numerous members of the DOJ/FBI ‘deep state” have already been removed or reassigned. Rosenstein opened an investigation of an individual not a crime. There is no crime as a basis for investigation by a special counsel. There are no “articulable facts.” Phantom and false “Russian collusion” would constitute international counter-intelligence operations.

        1. This “Deep State” entity which you have discovered is intriguing. It seems that through your dogged and indefatigable sleuthing, you have located a nefarious cabal of ne’er-do-wells, undoubtedly hell-bent on eradicating our ‘Merican way of life; our love for reality TV; confiscate our plastic bags; or, to fluoridate our precious bodily fluids or some other such dastardly deed. Well done Inspector, well done indeed.

          this is to “Inspector Clouseau at your service” georgie

  4. “The Daily 202” of THE WASHINGTON POST explores these points with regards to the Libby Pardon:

    Libby was convicted of four felonies, including obstruction of justice and perjury before a grand jury, related to the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame during his time as Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff. Libby was sentenced to 30 months in prison and fined $250,000.

    Richard Painter, who was the chief ethics lawyer in George W. Bush’s White House from 2005 to 2007, tweeted: “So what’s the message here? Lie to a grand jury to protect political superiors and you will get a full pardon?”

    Remember, Trump’s lawyer reportedly told attorneys representing Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn last year that the president might be willing to pardon his former senior aides if they faced criminal charges stemming from the investigation into Russia’s election interference.

    — Trump has already rewarded one political ally with a pardon. Last August, the president used the power invested in him by the Constitution to pardon Joe Arpaio. He developed a kinship with the ex-Arizona sheriff when they were prominent leaders of the “birther” movement, which falsely accused Barack Obama of being from Kenya. Arpaio campaigned with Trump in Iowa before the caucuses and stayed loyal to him during the depths of the campaign, which might have been a factor in him losing reelection in November 2016.

    — Bigger picture, Trump continues to be a do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do president. He constantly rails against leaks, yet he’s pardoning someone who was convicted of lying about leaking sensitive national security information. Judith Miller, then a reporter for the New York Times, spent 85 days in prison rather than disclose Libby was one of her sources.

    — A potential pardon once again puts into stark relief Trump’s bitterness toward the career professionals at the FBI and CIA, who the president sees as part of a “deep state” conspiring against him.

    — It’s also another data point of Trump’s disdain for the rule of law. Libby unsuccessfully appealed his conviction. He was convicted by a jury.

    — Furthermore, this shows Trump does not believe someone must be contrite to get a pardon. Historically, that’s been a requirement or at least a norm.

    — “A pardon of Mr. Libby would paradoxically put Mr. Trump in the position of absolving one of the chief architects of the Iraq war, which Mr. Trump has denounced as a catastrophic miscalculation,” Peter Baker and Maggie Haberman note on the front page of the Times. “Mr. Bush assigned White House lawyers to examine the case, but they advised him the jury had ample reason to convict Mr. Libby and the president rebuffed Mr. Cheney’s request. Mr. Bush told aides that he suspected that Mr. Libby had thought he was protecting Mr. Cheney, the real target of the investigation.

    “Mr. Cheney snapped at Mr. Bush. ‘You are leaving a good man wounded on the field of battle,’ he told him when informed of the decision. Mr. Bush was taken aback. It was probably the harshest thing Mr. Cheney ever said to him during their eight years in office together and was meant to attack Mr. Bush’s sense of loyalty to his own troops in a time of war. ‘The comment stung,’ Mr. Bush wrote in his memoir.”

    1. Painter’s an ass. “Lie to a grand jury” is the phrase he uses to describe what normal people would describe as “remembers not-very-important-event-x-way-while-the-other-guy-remembers-it-differently”.

  5. Has Waffen-SS Obergruppenfuhrer Mjueller found any “Russian Collusion” by Trump for Reichsführer-SS Rosenstein yet, after these two long years of investigation?

    1. George you must be a witty rebel with that reference to Mueller as Waffen – SS. Were you a hippie in the 70’s? Or some nerdy conservative? I ask because a lot of nerdy conservative are currently mimicking language that hippies used in the 70’s.

      1. Thanks for reading.

        I must admit, I can’t agree or disagree with your positions as I don’t read a word in the body of the interminable rubbish you publish. Actually, you could disappear down the hole you emerged from and no one would even notice.

          1. George would hand Trump the gun, to kill the random stranger on Fifth Ave., just like Trump boasted during the campaign. Then, George would lick his boots.

            1. President Trump protected America from Hillary and her “swamp” creatures. I thank him for that. I’m more in line with the severely limited government that the American Founders established in the Constitution. President Trump is far, far to liberal for my tastes. Speaking of which, I hope you are not banned-for-life for your boorish and uncivil, ad hominem attacks. You seem so nice.

      1. Innumerate Natacha, Christopher Wray has finally disgorged the e-mail which started this wheel-spinning exercise. It was issued in July 2016. The FISA warrants were issued in October 2016. This business has been under investigation for 21 months.

      2. Nat, learn to count, the year was 2004. Ask Larry Klaman (sic) & the Federal Court Judge handling the case.

    3. George, we don’t know yet. Do you expect the FBI to lay their evidence out on a table, on a day by day basis?

  6. Trump is a carnival barker, a con man, and a crook. And, true to form, he has his sycophants, his toadies, and his easy marks.

    This pardon isn’t about Libby.

      1. It’s about asserting power before it is taken away, pure and simple. Libby outed Ms. Plame as payback for her husband telling the truth.

        1. Nutchacha, little ignoramus, Valerie Plame’s place of employment was provided to reporters by Richard Armitage, not Libby. Neither man was prosecuted for that.

          And her husband has long been known as a politically-motivated schemer and fabricator.

          1. No it wasn’t. Outing her was payback for her husband reporting that he had investigated the claim that Saddam Hussein was obtaining yellowcake uranium, which was a lie. but this was the reason for starting the Iraq war. Mr. Wilson was an ambassador.

            BTW: all these years later, where are the WMDs?

            1. Wilson and Plame schemed to get Wilson assigned to traipse around Niger for 8 days. That was his investigation. And, no, it wasn’t a lie. They had information from other sources and Wilson never disproved the contention. And, of course, the Yellowcake was one tile in the mosaic of reasons for the Iraq war.

              You don’t really know anything. You rant and rant based on impressions largely derived from your emotional commitments. You might give some thought to self-improvement, which would start with not being a vicious and opinionated shrew.

                1. Low information individuals don’t know this, but it ended up in Canada. The transport was done in secret for obvious reasons. This fact didn’t advance the left’s talking points so many on the left that know a lot less than they think missed the news.

            2. “the claim that Saddam Hussein was obtaining yellowcake uranium, which was a lie.”

              550 metric tons of it were shipped to Canada from Iraq.

              1. D. Smith is Linda – or someone who attended the same set of orientation sessions at Media Matters.

                1. Oh God, you’re right Nii. Read D. Smith at 2:56pm – Obviously Linda.
                  She’s baacckkk!!

                    1. YNOT – at my age dull can be good. However, I have a full day every day. Besides, I get to annoy you. 😉

              2. Allan – Saddam Hussein was lying to keep his neighbors from attacking him.

          2. I read that Armitage said it was fairly common knowledge that Plame was with the CIA, because her husband Joe Wilson was going around and telling people she worked there.
            I think the “yellowcake” reference was in the 2003 State of the Union by Bush 43.
            And Gulf War II started in March, 2003.
            As I remember, Joe Wilson first disputed the yellowcake comment in an editorial in July 2003.
            So it took him 6 months after the yellow cake reference in the January speech, and 3 months after the invasion to publically dispute that statement.

        2. Nor was Plame “Outed”, she had a public position in the CIA at the time and have no NOC role for some time, She was not going back under cover. The entire thing was a stupid Sham.

          1. Pretty much. I’ve seen contentions that her outing required that the front-business used as her cover be shut down and anyone who’d used that cover had to be taken off undercover work. Not sure if that’s true or not.

        3. You should have read Judith Miller’s transcript instead of watching the movie. Rich Armitage outed her, no Scooter.

          1. David Garner,..
            – I thought that Armitage told the special prosecutor early on that he was the one who told Robert Novak.
            As I remember, the prosecutor kept the investigation going even after he knew who “leaked” Plame’s name.
            And Libby was subsequently convicted of lying about when he ( Libby) found out about it?
            Is that essentially what happened?

                1. D. Smith,..
                  I didn’t follow the investigation or the trial closely.
                  I think when the investigation found out, early on, that Armitage gave Plame’s name to Novak, that Armitage was told not to tell anyone.
                  The orosecutor then questioned others with the knowledge that it was Armitage, but no one in the Bush administration knew that the source, Armitage, had already been found.
                  If Libby lied, it might have been to protect another party that Libby thought might be Novak’s source.
                  I’d have to review the trial and its aftermath to be sure, especially Judith Miller’s recap of exactly what happened.

                  1. should be questioned others WITHOUT the knowledge that it was Armitage….I think all of those questioned after Armitage’s admission had no knowledge that the source for Novak wasxalready known to the prosecutor.

                2. What lie? Busy government officials have dozens of meetings in a week. That he couldn’t recall who told him a piece of information that wasn’t that important and whether he’d told this reporter x or the reporter told him x is just not that important.

                  1. Nutchacha,..
                    Again, I’d have to review the trial and subsequent delopments to refresh my memory on the specific basis fof the conviction, and the controversy that followed.
                    I think the major question was why the prosecutor, tasked with finding out Novak’s source, continued the investigation when he knew right off the bat that it was Armitage.
                    Then after Armitage told him, the questioning and investigation continued with Armitage instructed not to tell anyone, and the prosecutor not revealing to anyone in the administration that he’d already found the source.
                    Continuing the investigation after the objective of the investigation had been accomplished seemed to be the strange part of this saga.

                    1. Well, it was up to George W. Bush to toss the sh!t sandwich in the trash. Since the trial judge was FitzGerald’s accomplice, he wasn’t going to do it. The Bushes are very adept at generating irritation and disappointment.

        1. Nutcha knows the answer. Trump is signaling his co-criminals that they should just shut up and if they are prosecuted he will take care of them.

          1. Which ‘co-criminals’? The Russian internet trolls?

          1. And when he is no longer president, he will still and always be a carnival barker, con man and crook.

            1. And you’ll still be butt-hurt you didn’t get what you wanted from the American electorate. And you shouldn’t get what you want in any setting.

        2. No, by defeating a succession of rivals at fundraising and publicity campaigns, like any winning candidate. Unlike Obama, Trump is a person of some accomplishment. The same can be said of Mitt Romney. Unlike Hillary Clinton, their accomplishments add value to the economy, which running a crooked law practice does not.

      2. So? Are all his actions above question? Can he commit no crime, by definition?

        1. SInce you’re crews have been investigating him since July 2016, you must have an idea of what crime was committed, no?

  7. I’m wondering if Trump will pardon any of the Russians who were indicted by Mueller. Maybe Putin?

        1. Nixon was actually named as an unindicted co-conspirator with H.R. Haldeman, John Ehrlichman, John Mitchell, Robert Mardian, and Kenneth Parkinson. Nixon was well acquainted with three of these men in meatworld and was no more than one degree of separation from the other two. What association does Putin have with Mueller’s hat-full-o-internet-trolls?

      2. FF Sierra,
        – Rep. Maxine Waters was asked if the Vice-President would be any better than Trump if Trump were impeached and removed.
        She replied, ” No. And when we’re finished with Trump, we have to go after Putin”.- August. 2017
        I don’t think Putin’s been indicted, but he’s probably sweating out the impeachment threat. ☺😀

          1. I’ve though for a while what it must be like to know Maxine Watters was one’s representative. God, that must honestly suck whether one is liberal, conservative, Republican, Democrat or Independent.

            2. Your support for Libby damns him.
              There’s an expectation that, given your prior position, which was one of public trust, you would be objective. If you believe strongly that Watters singles herself out as a member of Congress who is not exercising a good faith effort to make the decisions that her constituents want her to make, then show the judgement to offer more than “sucks” as your opinion.

              1. LMAO. Watters is a comic figure. I can’t take you seriously on this

                1. Trump, the clown, “sucks”. How seriously would you take the person making that comment? When making it, would you expect the commenter to identify his position in the public trust or, would you feel it diminished him- say like the commander that Rolling Stone exposed, who subsequently resigned or, was relieved of duty?

                  1. I’ve never read Rolling Stone. No clue what that is about, and I’m reasonably confident that I don’t care. In fact, you are generally responding to someone who isn’t interested…

                    1. What a surprise that you know so little and have so little intellectual curiosity.
                      Gen. McChrystal- covered extensively by all media.

                    2. I have a great deal of intellectual curiosity about many things. I left DC a number of years ago and am more curious these days about when and on what flies the trout are biting.

                      Thanks for playing, though. I leave you with the last word, so do make it count — giving other readers something at which to laugh.

                    3. Mr. Garner, “D. Smith” is Linda. No one here takes her seriously. Responding to her is pointless – she has her talking points from Obama/Soros, and she doesn’t deviate an inch.

                    4. My intellectual curiosity does extend to George Soros for whom I believe there is an active arrest warrant in Hungary. My curiosity regarding him would likely quickly cease were he to be the victim of a massive naturally occurring cerebral hemorrhage or unsustainable cardiac incident.

                    5. Foxtrot, it would be simpler to say Linda marches only to Column Left, March and there is no way to get her Attention.

  9. Don’t overlook the fact the FBI and DOJ have an effective pardoning power greater than the President. If actual crimes investigated by the FBI are never referred for prosecution, then no pardon is necessary. Matters don’t require pardons.

  10. I’m sure Mueller has the evidence that Flynn can provide and Flynn can still be called to testify. If he has a memory lapse, I’m sure there are depositions with Flynn under oath that can be used to help him recall. What is to be pardoned? Just the lying to the FBI? He was let off the hook for many more charges that can be reinstated. How many pardons can one person be given? Or, as in Nixon’s case, pardon all crimes, even those not formally charged.

    1. He was let off the hook for many more charges that can be reinstated.

      In your imagination only, child.

      1. No in reality.

        Post the plea deal it will be hard to impossible for Mueller to prosecute Flynn for more than he plead to, even if the plea goes completely south.

    2. Wishfull thinking.

      The left constantly plays this game.

      People unknown or know will testify to things that we also do not know, and have no evidence of – why ?

      Because we hope they will ?

      DOJ guidelines require pleas to be to the highest likely provaeable offense – expecially for cooperating witnesses.

      There are many reasons for this:
      Pleas set precident for future pleas – even in other cases.
      Once a witness starts cooperating they may provide information that implicates themselves in further crimes. Should the plea fall apart the prosecutor may be barred under the 5th amendment from prosecuting them for anything more significant then their plea.
      Weak pleas mean poor cooperation.

      Thus far every Mueller Plea has been to a very minor charge.
      Flynn may or may not be cooperating – there is rumours that he lawyers are working to bar prosecution and toss the plea do to misconduct by McCabe and Strzok.
      Regardless, Flynn has weak motives to cooperate.
      Further your thesis of cooperation presumes he has something to provide.

      Mueller’s investigation is getting farther and farther afield, not closer and closer.

      So where do you go when in the end there is nothing ?

  11. Trump is playing chess with Muler. Special Counsel back-doors an attack on Trump via Southern District of NY criminal referral/no-knock pajama raid of personal attorney and Trump responds with shot across the bow with Libby pardon. Trump the hard worker and street fighter should not be underestimated. Trump talks like the common man but very well-educated and resilient.

    1. Trump couldn’t beat a chicken at tic tac toe.
      Stable Genius my arse.

      Cordially, Bill

      3. Mueller is not all that impressive either.
        Contra the press, he has a very long list of failures.

        I am not sure Republicans did not play up Mueller because they understood he would blow this.

        Whitey Bulger,
        Richard Jewell
        Hells Angels,
        Steven Hatfill
        Bruce Ivins.

  12. There was a song out several years back entitled: Pardon Me Ray. I am going to look up the lyrics and reply back.

  13. America definitely has two separate Justice Systems – elites can commit premeditated felony crimes with impunity while non-elites get sent to prison for crossing paths with the elites. America should have the integrity to change it’s motto to “Unequal Justice under Law”.

    We need a constitutional amendment to correct the criminal exploitation of the pardon power.

    1. He was convicted of ‘perjury’ because his recollection of an event of scant importance differed from the recollection of a pair of journalists, whose recollections differed from each other. The prosecutor, Patrick FitzGerald, learned toward the beginning of the investigation in 2003 that Richard Armitage was the souce of press reports that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA. He dragged out his investigation for 3.5 years, eventually nailing Libby on a mickey-mouse process crime and leaving him with 7-figures in legal bills. FitzGerald, by the way, was the prosecutor who destroyed Conrad Black’s businesses, collaborating with another federal judge in that effort. FitzGerald is one of the legal profession’s grotesques, as are his co-conspirators on the bench. Of course, all are still members of the bar in good standing.

      George W. Bush was so reflexively non-confrontational in domestic matters that he could not bring himself to clean this up. Good on Trump.

    1. No, but he should wipe all convictions on process crimes secured by special prosecutors. They’re the consolation prize sought by arrogant spendthrift special prosecutors when these white whale hunts are not working out. The federal criminal code is, btw, a hair trigger in these matters. New York’s penal code does provide for criminal charges for making false statements in circumstances which do not trigger perjury charges (which only obtain when oral testimony is given under oath), but they require affixing your signature to a written instrument and, unless there’s an oath administered and a jurat affixed to the document, they ar misdemeanors. Some years ago I met a retired FBI agent who was working as a contractor doing background investigations. He tells the receptionist in my office that he tended to be amused when someone was indicted for lying to law enforcement. In his day, “we assumed people were lying to us”. If a special prosecutor fancies he has evidence a subject committed a process crime, he can turn it over to the Criminal Division or the U.S. Attorney.

  15. Let us hope for the sake of justice that it is not only those commanding a high-profile who receive the benefit of a pardon. While not necessarily conclusive, President Trump has so far only granted pardons or commutated sentences of a handful of individuals, all of notoriety, whereas the past presidents were more accommodating: Presidents, Obama (1,927); Geo W. Bush (200); Clinton (459) and Geo H.W. Bush (77). To my knowledge President Wilson granted 2,480.

    1. Let us hope that Trump pardons Manafort and Flynn to support the obstruction of justice charge that will bring to an end his disgracing of the Presidency.

      Have a great day

      1. The president has plenary discretion in matters of executive clemency. No, exercising it isn’t ‘obstruction of justice’, except in the wind tunnel between your ears.

      2. ” to support the obstruction of justice charge”

        Have you not read the Constitution and the Supreme Court Cases that provide the President with these powers?

        The charges against Flynn are BS. The charges against Manafort require proof of wrongdoing.

        I hope this helps to steer you in the right direction.

    2. Disagree. High profile cases are peculiarly vulnerable to the system’s pathologies, most particularly pride-driven viciousness and crookery on the part of prosecutors (and occasionally police as well). Especially prosecutors supervised by high-class shysters like Eric Holder.

      Clinton’s midnight pardons (which included Marc Rich, Susan McDougal, and his brother’s cronies, and included payment of finder’s fees to his shyster brother-in-law, Hugh Rodham) were a scandal.

      Most pardons are processed through the pardon attorney’s office of the Department of Justice. Wrong agency, wrong criteria. The pardon attorney’s office is properly shut down and its sorting criteria (which rely heavily on canned ‘remorse’) disregarded. In lieu of that, he could establish a corps of examiners on the White House staff looking at extreme sentences and dubious findings of fact.

    3. You’re forgetting a great many pardons are gestures: antique cases wherein the sentence has already been served.

  16. Pingback: Prelude For Pardons Yet To Come? Trump To Pardon Scooter Libby — JONATHAN TURLEY – A record of mankind's degradation of planet earth

  17. For libby full circle but for the American People The Libby Law is still in effect. .. except for a certain few who are exempt or so they think.

    Rule One, If you have ever provided any information to the government or any government agency never repeat but refer them to the previous submission … If you haven’t and for some reason wish to answer … only add new information for a later timie period and don’t feel awkward if you have a memory lapse.
    Rule Two when in doubt refer to rule one.

  18. After Obama was inaugurated, he should have granted a pardon to Libby on the condition that Libby testify about everything that happened, including the activities of Darth Cheney. I’m not sure that conditional pardons are valid, but offering such a pardon would have put Libby in an interesting spot, forcing him to make a difficult choice.

    1. But the conviction was not on one he knew but in answering the same question. slightly different answer. . Part of our progressive socialist heritage

    2. Libby shouldn’t have been obligated to make up stuff to please partisan Democrats.

  19. A brilliant move. Now the Dems and MSM and Never Trumpers will be beside themselves forecasting when Pres. Trump will pardon Gen. Flynn. We will hear screams of ‘this is obstruction of the Mueller investigation’.

    Prepare for another round of TDS exasperations. I hope that Pres. Trump pardons every person that Mr. Mueller has ever had a hand in convicting so he can retire with a ZERO record.

    1. Like Trey Gowdy said “If the allegation is collusion with the Russians, and there is no evidence of that, and you are innocent of that, act like it,”
      Wholesale pardons of possible witnesses against him would be something a guilty President would do, besides providing obstruction of justice grounds for impeachment.
      I despise the Orange Dolt so I hope he does it. The ensuing shi*storm on Capitol Hill and the dolorous effect on the already shaky Republican prospects in the midterm elections would provide terrific entertainment.

      1. I despise the Orange Dolt

        Let’s see you run a business with 22,000 employees and $9.5 bn in annual revenue.

        1. AND let’s see you do it without declaring bankruptcy numerous times, stiffing contractors, settling tons of lawsuits out of court, requiring NDAs and paying hush money to cover up your misdeeds, and relying on international dirty money.

          1. Neither he nor the Trump Organization ever declared bankruptcy. He was an equity investor in 4 projects which were re-organized or liquidated. When you have educated yourself on what ‘limitied-liability corporations’ are and what ‘equity investment’ is, you can get back to us, pumpkin.

        2. Let’s see Trump’s tax returns, to back the claims of his success.
          Let’s see his cost of borrowing from everyone but, Putin.
          Let’s turn back the clock and see how much creditors would have risked with him, if Trump hadn’t inherited $1 mil.and didn’t have his dad’s contacts.

          1. If Trump didn’t have a dime and wasn’t President his buildings still would stand demonstrating that he accomplished a lot in his life. What have you accomplished?

          2. Both you and Natacha fancy tax returns are balance sheets. They are not.

            1. Income tax forms show income, interest payments, taxes paid, etc. Disclosing those returns is a good start.
              The assets and creditor claims against assets on his business balance sheet and the revenues and expenses on his business’ income statement may also provide interesting perspective.

              1. Your knowledge of taxes sounds like you don’t even need an H&R Block. It seems you wish to have a virtual experience snooping on the IRS forms of others.

                  1. That demonstrates how foolish you are expecting things that are not required. I guess your expectations of Obama weren’t met either.

                  2. Consistent with other candidates ca. 1988. Obama did two things: he eschewed federal matching funds and raked it in from Hollywood, tech billionaries, and any foreign sources he could sneak through (to where was he headed the day after Benghazi? A fundraiser). The other thing he did was blow off disclosures he wasn’t legally obligated to make. (You are obligated to make financial disclosures as a member of Congress). So, no one saw his long-form birth certificate for more than four years after he announced his candidacy, no one’s seen his college transcripts (and, unlike what was the case with Messrs. Bush, Gore, and Kerry, no one leaked them either). no one seen his after dinner remarks on behalf of Rashid Khalidi, and no one’s seen his medical records. Reporters got a detailed presentation on John McCain’s records from the candidate himself, one which included the raw paperwork as exhibits.

            2. Nii said, “Both you and Natacha fancy tax returns are balance sheets. They are not.”

              Bank fraud and tax fraud accompany money laundering because bank fraud and tax fraud delay the detection of money laundering.

          3. His father died in 1999. Trump surpassed his father in net worth some time prior to 1982. Trump took his father’s capital and went in an entirely different direction with it. His father favored residential development in the Outer Boroughs. Trump went into commercial development in Manhattan, later branching out into resort development and entertainment products.

      2. Like Derschowitz has said – when a federal prosecutor goes after a person rather than a crime they will ALWAYS find a crime.

        People who are innocent behave in a variety of ways – some do cow hoping for vindication.
        Some attack back in any way they can.

        Comey’s own book has Trump demanding that Comey investigate the Steele dossier allegations in order to find him innocent.

        That is the conduct of an angry innocent person.

      3. I must have missed the wholesale pardons of possible witnesses. You presume too much. When or if that happens, you may have a point.

        But until then, its just your hope and dreams.

        And there is still no obstruction. Over a million documents have been turned over, no one has not followed through with an interview request. Doesn’t sound like obstruction at all.

        In the meantime, the gaslighting performed by Pres. Trump continues so the MSM, Dems and never Trumpers will continue to beat a dead horse.

        And its unfortunate that Mr. Rosenstein coordinated this poorly run investigation. Incredibly sad that Mr. Mueller didn’t possess the ethics or morals to not accept the assignment.

        The most important investigation of our times, and its been run corruptly from the beginning.

  20. I’m delighted. Libby is one of the finest people I’ve ever worked with.

      1. Garner or Libby? The left stidll cannot bring itself to present one single fact in evidence nor identify the target of their shame.

          1. No alias. You can find my bio at Linkedin. Just a normal career military officer who thought a lot of Libby who I worked with one-on-one or in meetings at least a couple of times a week.

            PS, I’m an unaffiliated voter in Colorado and an agnostic when it comes to Trump on many things.

                1. No, none required by me. We live in troubled times and the Internet is not known for its “semper veritatus.” I always prefer an honest, well-intended dialogue to an apology.

                  1. Unfortunately, you won’t get either one from our friend Benson.

                2. Benson has been accused of having more than one alias so if true all of his alias’s should appologize.

            2. “Agnostic when it comes to Trump” – all of Trump’s Russian ties in 7 Charts at Politico.

              1. Sorry, I shouldn’t have required you to think about my response. What I meant was that I have been #NeverTrump since 2016 when I supported Cruz in the Colorado Republican primary. I voted for Gary Johndon in November.

                1. Johnson, while Governor- a multimillion dollar no-bid contract for a N.M. highway given to a subsidiary of Koch Industries. Johnson, profiled by John Hendrickson at Esquire, is without a doubt a flake. But, he may not be the bigot that the big funders of libertarianism are.

                  1. Thanks, but it was a throwaway vote without conviction as I could not vote for Trump or Clinton.

        2. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? The “left” is not supposed to present facts in evidence. That’s the job of the prosecutors. And it’s not the job of the prosecutors to give the facts in evidence to Trump supporters who think they are entitled to them.

          1. This investigation has been ongoing since July 2016. Twenty months of work by McCabe’s clown car denizens and Mueller’s stable of Democratic Party donors has netted a nest of indictments on mickey-mouse process crimes, another mickey-mouse indictment of a collection of Russian internet trolls (which will not have to be defended in court), and an indictment of Paul Manafort on account of business dealings which occurred prior to 2015 and their sequelae (a matter which surely could have been handled by a U.S. Attorney or the Criminal Division).

      1. We both worked in the Office of the Secretary of Defense in the early 1990s at the end of Desert Storm. Libby was Principal Deputy Under-secretary Policy (Strategy and Resources) and I was the Deputy Director for Public Affairs Planning and later Director of the Pentagon Press Office.

        1. Cheney and Tenet, great guys?
          You have any part in selling the public on the Iraqi WMD’s?

          1. Before my time. I was at war college at the beginning of the Gulf War.

            Are you all about blame? Just curious…

            1. I’ll let the Iraqi people answer that. One microcosm of the debacle was portrayed in the story of the nation’s zoo. When the ego of of a Pres. is fed with support for a bad decision which has huge consequences, those military and civilians around him have an obligation to plan for the period after the “mission accomplished” banner waving.

              1. Linda, the Kurdish provinces and the Shi’ite provinces are quiet and have been quiet for nearly 10 years. Provinces which have large populations of Sunnis account for somewhat north of 40% of Iraq’s population but 98% of the political violence. The source of the violence is… ISIS, al Qaeda, and miscellanous militias drawn from Iraq’s Sunni population, who are infuriated something was taken away from them. Since they only constituted 18% of the population, it was never really theirs.

                1. Secular leaders vs. religious fanatics has huge impact on a nation’s people.

              2. Apparently you are the mistress of non sequiturs, there is a flaw in the software, or, perhaps you simply have an opinion about everything.

              3. D. Smith – the “Mission Accomplished” banner was for the ship which has just finished its tour. It was not for the war, you twit.

                  1. D. Smith – how about the Captain of the ship!!! Prove me wrong, twit.

                    1. Just making shit up; why are you the only one who knows this? Cite! Cite I say.

                    2. YNOT – common knowledge. Only twits don’t know it. Dig it out yourself, twit.

              1. Yes, the ORIGINAL Desert Storm, 1989-1990 class, National Defense University, Ft. Leslie J. McNair, Washington, DC.

      2. Why haven’t the Kochs snatched up David Garner as a candidate? He’s the perfect bookend to Trump, “If I don’t know it, it’s not worth knowing. And, if I think the Iraqi War was in the years prior to the Gulf War, it’s true.” His base, thanking him for his service, will follow him just like they follow the orange one. He’s smug about being in his demographic, insults without thought- perfect guest for Hannity.

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