The Long Overdue Death of Korematsu v. United States

JapaneseAmericansChildrenPledgingAllegiance1942-2For decades, law professors have discussed the 1944 decision in Korematsu v. United States as one of the most disgraceful and indefensible opinions ever issued by the United States Supreme Court. Yet, the Court has continued to cite Korematsu and has never expressly disavowed its denial of basic constitutional rights to Japanese Americans.  In a virtual aside by the majority in Trump v. Hawaii, Chief Judge John Roberts Jr. puts a well-aimed stake through the heart of the case and finally declares it to be overturned.

The case concerned the infamous Executive Order 9066 signed on February 19, 1942 by Franklin Delano Roosevelt.  It authorized the removal of people of Japanese ancestry to internment camps.  More than 120,000 Japanese Americans would be subject to the camps — some were families of Japanese Americans fighting for the United States in World War II.

Fred Korematsu, 23, fought the order and tried to remain at large. He even had plastic surgery on his eyes to alter his appearance and adopted the name Clyde Sarah. It did not work and he was soon in Court and was convicted of violating military orders issued under Executive Order 9066,. He was given five years probation. On December 18, 1944, the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 to uphold the authority to order the interment of innocent people like Korematsu.

In his dissent at the time, Justice Robert Jackson wrote:

“Korematsu . . . . has been convicted of an act not commonly thought a crime. It consists merely of being present in the state whereof he is a citizen, near the place where he was born, and where all his life he has lived.”

In the decision yesterday in Trump v. Hawaii, Roberts responded to one of the arguments by dissenting Justice Sonia Sotomayor by noting:

“The dissent’s reference to Korematsu, however, affords this Court the opportunity to make express what is already obvious: Korematsu was gravely wrong the day it was decided, has been overruled in the court of history, and — to be clear — ‘has no place in law under the Constitution.’”

With that, Korematsu entered the dustbin of history.  It has taken decades since we, in the words of Jackson, “[fell] into the ugly abyss of racism” in the case.  However, its rejection shows not only our susceptibility to fear and racism but our ability to recognize and correct such failures.  This correction took far far too long, but it is finally here.

121 thoughts on “The Long Overdue Death of Korematsu v. United States”

  1. All the anti-racist whining increases polarization and is good for white folks so they can learn to stick together. They need that badly, centuries of individualism as ruined the sense of people among them. Keep up the good work, whiners! Whine away

  2. While the west coast was in fear of Japanese infiltrators, German U-boats were parked off the east coast. From New England all the way down to North Carolina. There were Japanese & German spies working the front lines in those days.

      1. I knew someone was going to ask that question. It’s about looks. Blond hair & blue eyes. Those German U-boat captains & US land based German spies were far craftier than the Japanese. Today, China has lots of spies. Smarter, richer & better looking than German blond hair & blue eyes. I’ve been dating one. She always asks questions. But she can cook. Hot & spicy meals with Chinese beer.

      2. Because they were too numerous, too scattered, and most had been here for several generations. My brother has in laws from Genoa, btw. Sections of the Bay Area were under a variant of martial law during the war, including the neighborhood in Frisco where his mother-in-law was living.

      3. Hi Jay:

        One of my ancestors was a German-American during both WWI and WWII. They were considered of “enemy ancestry” and oppressed. Her marriage to her husband, who carried some influence, protected her. Our family is a military family, so many members served in those wars, and we have paraphernalia. They used to say something like, “The Brits fight for honor, the Germans fight for the Motherland, and the Americans fight for souvenirs.”

        http://www.foitimes.com/gasummary.htm

        There was a real and abiding hatred for the “Japs” and the Nazis. So many of our young people died, families forever destroyed, and a great big whole blown through an entire generation. There was a real possibility we might not have won, and it wasn’t just going to be a scorecard. And then the stories and pictures coming out of the concentration camps and the Japanese torture centers, as well as their rape and enslavement of Chinese women…it was like our enemies were the real devil in people’s minds. The depravity was just beyond comprehension.

        Almost half a million US military died in WWII. That can generate a real hatred among the survivors, the maimed, and the grieving.

        That said, the Constitution was supposed to protect all citizens. It is heartbreaking to see the sweet little faces of all of those Asian children in the post. Those poor things. I cannot imagine what they went through, and am extremely admiring of the way that Asians roared into prosperity a relatively short time after. They had a bootstrap mentality that did not falter, even though it was clearly unfair what happened to them.

        When we were in Europe. we were in a business, when the older French proprietress came back from helping some customers, ashen faced and breathing hard. My parents expressed their concern. She said that she couldn’t help it. They were German. She just couldn’t get over her terror and rage at them, but still did her best to wait on them. But she knew it was wrong to hold onto that. She said that all she could do was make sure she did not teach her prejudice to her children. My parents always held that story up as trying to do the right thing, even when it’s hard.

        1. I wonder where the photo was taken? It looks like it’s in front of a government building; perhaps a public school in San Fran. The girl that is second from left is Caucasian, and the girl in the white dress looks Chinese, not Japanese.

  3. Just wondering though, if the Japanese had not been interned in the camps, what would have happened to them, since we were at war with Japan?

    1. Probably the same thing that happened to Germans living in the US at that time – a very ugly ostracizing by many.

      1. I don’t know about that: My father fought in WWII from the first US involvement to the occupation of Germany. Her was of German descent and many of his fellow artillery officers were as well: Rottstedt,. Barnhart, Grundswig . . . These were the names of the men who beat the Germans!

  4. Trump v. Hawaii? Are we in a time machine? I don’t think Roberts meant his “aside” as I think current policies show.

  5. “However, its rejection shows not only our susceptibility to fear and racism but our ability to recognize and correct such failures.”
    ***********************************
    The security provided by horrendous events being safely locked away in the vaults of history give all of us the luxury of striding the moral high ground, free to call out the actions of then and there decision-makers with a smugness only a bullet dodger feels. On February 19, 1942, Pearl Harbor was just under three months in the rear view mirror. The battleship fleet in the Pacific was a heap of mangled Pennsylvania steel lying rock bottom on the sea floor and our carriers were outgunned and out flanked by the deadly Japanese Imperial Navy that had already conquered most of the Pacific. California stood to be a coastline-sized clone of Pearl given the enemy’s carrier -based bombers and no ally within thousands miles that could offer any hope of asssitance. The Japanese had bragged of spy cells in America and we were in no position to dispute them given the total success of the surprise attack. A second loss at Midway and the ones interred in concentration camps would be all Americans living in the Westen half of the country if luck somehow prevailed to keep the number that small. The Ni’ihua Incident gave credence to to this anti-Japanese sentiment. No less a liberal than Earl Warren supported the plan. Given this backdrop was Roosevelt the evil racist or the pragmatic defender of a nation? What would you do if everything was riding on your decision? Japanese internment offends our sensibilities today when the dire consequences of an error on the topic are just a remote memory with no flesh and blood of ours in the game. Hindsight has the convenient attributes of being both accurate and moral. It’s why the ancient Romans, who knew a thing or two about statecraft and waging war, always believed that “Inter arma enim silent lēgēs.” You see they always strove to be the ones to enjoy the luxury of hindsight and the smugness of the survivor.

    1. The American high command never feared an attack on the west coast. Too far for the Japanese fleet.

      Besides, the code breakers knew precisely what the Japanese were up to. Hence Midway, after which it was only a question of how long it would take to defeat the Japanese military.

      1. David Benson owes me five citations after five weeks, one from the OED, and the source of a quotation – The Japanese were much better at changing their codes than the Germans, hence the problem with Midway. The code-breakers thought the attack could be one of two places, but wanted to be sure. They had Midway send a message in the clear that they were having problems desalinating their water supply. They then picked up a Japanese message in code which identified the target as having a water problem and they would have to bring desalinization equipment with them, so they knew it was Midway.

      2. David Benson:

        Dec 7, 1941. On its way to the U.S. west coast, I-26 tracks a US freighter. Precisely at 8:00 a.m., Dec 7, Pearl Harbor time, she surfaces and sinks Cynthia Olson with gunfire. Dec 15, 1941. Japanese submarine shelled Kahului, Maui, Hawaii.
        Dec 20. Unarmed U.S. tanker sunk by Japanese submarine I-17 off Cape Mendocino, California. 31 survivors rescued by Coast Guard from Blunt’s Reef Lightship.
        Dec 20. Unarmed U.S. tanker shelled by Japanese submarine I-23 of the coast of California
        Dec 22. Unarmed U.S. tanker sunk by Japanese submarine I-21 about four miles south of Piedras Blancas light, California, I-21 machine-guns the lifeboats, but inflicts no casualties. I-21 later shells unarmed U.S. tanker Idaho near the same location.
        Dec 23. Japanese submarine I-17 shells unarmed tanker southwest of Cape Mendocino, California.
        Dec 27. Unarmed U.S. tanker shelled by Japanese submarine I-23 10 miles from mouth of Columbia River.
        Dec 30, 1941. Submarine I-1 shells, Hilo, Hawaii.
        Dec 31, 1941. Submarines shell Kauai, Maui, and Hawaii.
        Feb 23, 1942. I-17, shelled Ellwood oil refinery at Geleta on the Californian coast. The skipper had fueled there many times before the war.
        June 20, 1942, the radio station on Estevan Point, Vancouver Island, was fired on by a Japanese submarine I-26.
        June 21. I-25 shells Fort Stevens, Oregon.
        Sept 9 . Phosphorus bombs were dropped on Mt. Emily, ten miles northeast of Brookings, Oregon, to start forest fires. A Yokosuka E14Y1 “Glen” reconnaissance seaplane piloted by Lt. Nubuo Fujita was been catapulted from submarine I-25.
        Sep 29. Phosphorus bombings were repeated on the southern coast of Oregon.

        The Japanese plan of invasion centered on capturing Midway then Hawaii. From there a two,pronged attack on Alaska and California would be conducted. Had Midway fallen, that plan would have been implemented. .

            1. mespo – the Japanese did invade the Aleutian Islands and then sent incendiary balloons to set wildfires in the Northwest and West of the United States. Since the fires were never reported in the papers, the Japanese thought the balloons were ineffective, so they stopped sending them. They found the remnants of one of the balloons in a forest a couple of years ago. They are still dangerous.

    2. LAW PROFESSORS, HISTORIANS, DECENT HUMAN BEINGS: Korematsu is indefensible.

      AMBULANCE CHASER/INTERNET TROLL: Hold my beer.

      1. Chinese people hate Japs. Just sayin. They could care less about this. Why don’t we take a lesson from the People’s Republic of China and do what works for Americans. Crazy idea I know

    3. Without making a hindsight judgment either way I can say with a high level of certainty we will never actually know whether the internments of Japanese or German identified individuals positively supported the war effort.

      The fundamental reason for this remains that if there was to be an insurgency by these ethnic groups it was generally stopped by the detentions. Hence, it was never permitted to organize to fruition and by the same token there was not an opportunity to conversely prove they posed no threat as evidenced by their freedom over time.

      Historically the detention of “enemy aliens” within a belligerent nation is not unprecedented. Suffice to say the matter becomes controversial based upon whether the person is a citizen or not.

      1. But the Japanese American young men volunteered for the Nesei regiment, the 444th if I remember rightly. They served mostly in Italy but also in the invasion of southern France.

        1. Many of the Japanese-American army volunteers did so precisely to demonstrate that their loyalty was to America, not to Hirohito.

      2. Oh Darren you made a perceptive point there which the usual idiots will ignore.

        WE WILL NEVER KNOW BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER PERMITTED TO ORGANIZE

        Trust me ethnic insurgencies have always been a thing and will always be a thing.

    4. J. Edgar Hoover was one of the few within the FDR regime who opposed the Japanese internment. This can easily be looked up.

      1. He did but naval intelligence had evidence of radio transmissions from Hawaii to Japan from American citizens and legal aliens. So the intelligence community differed. Would you err on the safe side or not?

          1. Most people who don’t experience it think that way, George. They think it’s some John Wayne movie where everybody gets up after the scene and goes home or a video game where you buy more lives. War is where one loss could be your last and there are no do-overs. Your survival is at stake and the only priority is to win at any cost. History is replete with many of the vanquished who didn’t understand this basic concept.

            “To this warre of every man against every man, this also is consequent; that nothing can be Unjust. The notions of Right and Wrong, Justice and Injustice have there no place. Where there is no common Power, there is no Law: where no Law, no Injustice. Force, and Fraud, are in warre the two Cardinall vertues. Justice, and Injustice are none of the Faculties neither of the Body, nor Mind. If they were, they might be in a man that were alone in the world, as well as his Senses, and Passions. They are Qualities, that relate to men in Society, not in Solitude. It is consequent also to the same condition, that there be no Propriety, no Dominion, no Mine and Thine distinct; but onely that to be every mans that he can get; and for so long, as he can keep it. And thus much for the ill condition, which man by meer Nature is actually placed in; though with a possibility to come out of it, consisting partly in the Passions, partly in his Reason.”

            ~Hobbes, Leviathan, Ch. 13.

      1. RDKAY:
        You underestimate fear as a motivator. If your survival was at stake and you genuinely feared for your life, would you torture? Answer that honestly and you see the dilemma.

    5. Exactly right! That’s why they set up internment camps for German and Italian Americans. Oh………..wait a minute…………..never mind.

      1. Your history is as good as your sarcasm. About 2000 Italians were interred by the US government and 15 times as many by the Canadians. You don’t hear about it because many were Italian nationals and others regarded it as a sacrifice to the war effort. Keep pitching those historical softballs, RSA. It is almost the All-Star game.

  6. Chinggis say:

    Chief Justice Roberts just yak away about Korematsu. Yakking easy to do. Dicta ( not Ditka). First Roberts say that Korematsu has nothing to do with the case. Then he say Korematsu overruled. Can’t overrule Korematsu if Korematsu have nothing to do with case. Even Chinggis understand that. Why not Roberts or Turley understand that?

    Maybe Roberts now try to overrule Row v. Wade (not swim) in tax case.

    1. “Maybe Roberts now try to overrule Row v. Wade (not swim) in tax case.” +1.

      Where do I get tickets to the show?

  7. Federal courts have been rejecting decisions by the Executive Branch not on constitutional grounds, but because judges either don’t like them or because they think they would be ineffective. Judges should not be in the business of policy making or legislating. The other branches, which are elected by the people, not appointed, are charged with those duties. Presidents have the freedom to make bad policy and good policy. Lawmakers have the power to pass laws, many of which have done much more damage than good. Redress in those cases is found at the ballot box. Judges should only declare laws unconstitutional when they clearly violate constitutional requirements. The Supreme Court did not endorse the effectiveness of the President’s policies. It properly limited itself to assessing their constitutionality.

  8. Sure, Korematsu looks wrong in retrospect BUT. . .

    Isn’t the Democratic Left reinforcing the basis of Korematsu with all its Identity Politics? Presuming that a racial group of people have the same opinions because they are of a certain race. That ALL BLACKS have the same thought process, a monolithic clump of humanity, because of the color of their skin?

    Because under that scenario, Korenmatsu was a good decision because it presumed that all the Japanese had the same loyalties to The Emperor of Japan because of their ethnicity.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. Whereas if there had been the slightest understanding of Japanese culture FDR would have known that the loyalty was implicitly renounced upon emigration.

      1. David Benson:
        Somebody should have told that to the three Japanese-American citizens (Ishimatsu Shintani and Yoshio and Irene Harada) who aided in the escape of a downed Japanese pilot on Hiihua Island, Hawaii just days after he and the second wave of bombers devastated Pearl Harbor.
        No reason to question culture, right?

          1. Jay S:
            That is the kind of reductio ad absurdum argument I’d expect from you. For those playing at home, my comment was providing a counter-example to the simpleton notion of Prof. Benson that Japanese culture dictates that the fact of emigration requires Japanese emigres who become US citizens to renounce loyalty to the emperor and that FDR was well aware of this cultural phenomena which insulated us from attack by them. The cited trinity were just samples of disloyal citizens which disproved Benson’s point.

          2. Jay S – I saw a Batman serial made during WWII and one of the lines of the serial was “Aren’t you glad your government has locked up all those shifty-eyed Japs?”

        1. DSS – David Benson supposedly has read Weart and I am sure that American-Japanese culture is covered in there.

            1. “You haven’t experienced Shakespeare until you’ve read him in the original Klingon.”
              –Chancellor Gorkon

  9. Choice of two sitters for your child. The agency of Sitter 1 has vetted the person to your satisfaction. The agency of Sitter 2 has not. The religion of the Sitter is irrelevant for the security you desire for your child is your primary concern – – Your choice – Sitter 1 or Sitter 2 . . .?

  10. That Americans of Japanese descent were interned due to a paranoia and due to historical racism-German and Italian Americans were not so easily differentiated regarding their physical appearance-might have been rectified after the war if complete and proper reparations were made. However, the reparations never approached in the slightest way the loss of property, fishing boats, farms, income, etc. lost during this shameful chapter. The same was done in Canada where in British Colombia Canadians of Japanese descent lost an equity that took generations to build.

    In the end those interned were treated as if guilty. When the war ended and they were released, they had to pretty much start over again. Being forced to do something is one thing; overly justifying it beyond the act itself is another.

    The same ‘too bad’ mentality is showing its vicious head again. Zero tolerance is the approach of the incompetent.

    1. We had German-American neighbors when I was growing up who had been interned in Washington or Oregon, I’m not sure which. Afterwards, they changed their name from Braun to Brown and moved to CA. I also knew a Japanese -American woman when I was in law school who was a Mormon from Utah. I asked how that came about, and she said her grandfather was a dentist in CA and moved his family to Salt Lake City to avoid the internment. He was well treated by the Mormons and prospered there, so they joined the faith as a show of appreciation.

      1. There was a line drawn and if you lived West of that line you were interned, East and you were fine.

      2. Internment was from designated areas, mainly coastal states. Those we already lived in the interior or who could find sponsors to take them in the interior were not interned. The executive order allowed commanders of designated military zones to intern or remove those considered a risk from their zone, whether or not they were citizens. Thus your German-American was interned from a coastal state, while your Japanese-American colleague was not interned in Utah.

    2. Issac: Right on. I’ll repeat, the arguments favoring the Korematsu decision are similar to those favoring our torturing people because of our fears. Take the moral high ground even if it may lessen our safety.

      Also, Roberts’ rejection of Korematsu is legally irrelevant – but morally welcome.

  11. Japanese Americans were interned in camps. I’m taking it for granted that most of these people were American Citizens. This is what bothers me the most. They were citizens.

    1. Yeah, but they have that yellowish skin and slanted eyes. Couldn’t be trusted ! At least they weren’t like all those murderers and rapists from south of the border.

      1. Germans, German-Americans, Italians, and Italian-American were also placed in camps. Somehow, they are always forgotten. Arizona had several of the Japanese camps plus a few German P.O.W. camps. One of the P.O.W. camps in the Phoenix area is the source of the German “Great Escape”.

        1. Paul: My grandfather, an Episcopal priest, was a chaplain at that German POW camp in Arizona. He was placed their because he was fluent in German.

            1. Don’t know which one. He died before I was born. I got the story from my grandmother. She said some of the German POW’s were suspicious of the long, long train ride west. They didn’t believe the U.S. was really that spacious.

              1. Peter Hill – the officer camp was in Papago Park between Phoenix and Scottsdale. The camp for regular soldiers was in eastern AZ someplace. Papago Park is the home of the Great Escape.

        2. You need to distinguish between US citizens of German descent, and German POWs. I don’t think any German-descent or Italian-descent US citizens were interned.

          Interestingly, that was not the case in the UK. There was a bureaucracy set up to adjudicate the status of refugees (even Jewish ones) and decide which should be left alone, and which to be interned. A number of the interned were sent to Canada. Of those, some died on ships sunk by U-boats.

      2. “…that yellowish skin and slanted eyes”. Or like those “who shall remain uncharacterized”, who all vote in lockstep, those “Breyer”, “Ginsburg”, and “Kagan” and the Marano. No, there is nothing there. Don’t peak behind the curtain.

        Isn’t the saying, “Blood is thicker than water”?

  12. The formal rejection of Korematsu only came about because Justice Sotomayor cited it in her Dissent which she read aloud from the bench, Korematsu then to allowing the Trave Ban now. The Korematsu opinion accepted the governments lies as to the danger represented by the Japanese which were later uncovered and Korematsu got his case overturned but SCOTUS never officially undid its opinion.

    Now, we know Trump’s intent was to ban Muslims, he’s repeated it often and as is his style, never disavowed his previous statements. We now have a Muslim ban (although incomplete which he has the power now to add countries as he see’s fit). Shall we call it Son of Korematsu?

    1. What I most fear, is that this president will now feel emboldened to carry out any sort of ethnic or religious purge or cleansing, and then claim it justified by “national security.” Perhaps place anyone in internment camps who has a hispanic surname?

      This will go hand in hand with the claim that any sort of ethnic or sexual orientation discrimination in the private sector, can be excused because of “deeply held personal religious beliefs.”

      When I was growing up in the sixties, I felt sure our country was evolving into a more just and tolerant society. What has happened ?

      1. Demographics happened. The country is getting browner and fear has kicked in. The powers that be are fighting for their place without regard to a just and tolerant society.

      2. The histrionics won’t help your argument. The decision simply means that people from a limited number of countries can’t visit the U.S. They have to stay home. Or go to some other country. Just not the U.S. So they’ll be fine. So let’s not get completely unhinged. Take a Xanax and go to bed.

      3. What I most fear, is that this president will now feel emboldened to carry out any sort of ethnic or religious purge or cleansing, and then claim it justified by “national security.”

        Congratulations! Thank a progressive for your fear and a conservative for their protection. Thank a progressive for calling this a Muslim ban and a conservative for defending the separation of powers. And most of all, thank a conservative for Not Hillary, for Justice Gorsuch; because if the situation had been reversed…forget about it.

        1. So, what fraction of Muslims in this country do you figure to be terrorists? Or what fraction from the banned countries?

          1. I believe it only took 13 of them to topple the World Trade Center and incinerate thousands of Americans.

  13. Thanks to Trumpism, I suspect we still have a ways to go before it can be said truly that our society has completely crept out of the abyss of racism.

    1. Actually I will go a step further and say that once politicians, opportunists, and members of the media stop cramming the notion that everything is racist down the throats of the average person, the current perception of actual racism being ubiquitous in the United States will end.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s

      It is important for people who’s minds are continually captivated by these charlatans to get out among average Americans and see how they interact with each other. As that a vast majority interact with those of other races just as they would their own cohorts, those who discount the relative harmonious nature of average people might learn that they are wrong in following those who have an invested stake in perpetuating strife for their own personal benefit or to feed their misconceptions.

      Jeff, you are not going to bring people to your side of the argument by furthering the notion that everyone perceived to be supportive of a particular politician–in your example President Trump–is a racist they will throw up a wall and never listen to you. And when slightly under half of the electorate chose president Trump in the last election, you’ve managed to alienate millions of people from the beginning.

      1. His object is posturing for self-aggrandizement, not winning anyone over. The bald truth – blacks don’t need him and his ilk – is one he will not acknowledge.

      2. Darren, overall I agree with you but unfortunately racism is still a thing — nothing to do with Trump – it’s a mindset – cops called for sleeping while black, barbequing while black, and the latest (I think) selling bottled water while black. This recent show was so unbelievable I thought it was staged but it was not

        1. In my county, all public pools require people to shower before getting in the pool. No shower – no entry. It’s a health requirement that applies to everyone. This is just a bunch of pathetic self-hating white people virtue signalling; making charges of racism and “Jim Crow” where there is no evidence of such. Personally, even if I saw a black person taking a dump in the pool, I wouldn’t say anything, I would be leave and never patronize that establishment again, because black people can never, ever, ever, ever be wrong about anything; no, they’re perfect and everybody else in the world is raaaaaaaaaacist!

          1. The woman stated that the white guy asked only members of her family if they had showered, and not the other hotel guests. It is implied that the woman were the only black people in the pool, and yet the man did not ask anyone else if they had bathed before swimming. That is clearly racist, if that is exactly what transpired.

            When I was in college I was the lifeguard and pool manager at several swanky DC apartments and condo complexes during the summer. One day, the now deceased, newscaster extraordinaire, Jim Vance, and a white, female newscaster finished playing a set of tennis, and dripping with sweat attempted to jump in the pool. I requested that they shower first, as health regulations require.

            The tv personalities were offended, but the other (equally wealthy) patrons were happy that I had upheld the rule. What I did was not racist, because I applied the rule equally to all patrons, regardless of race or gender. A lot of Reaganites lived in these accommodations, including that supply side Economics guy who Reagan nominated but was ultimately rejected by the Senate. I would and did politely tell anyone slick with sweat to at least rinse off before getting in the water, because not doing so is plainly disgusting, no matter who you are.

            1. I agree with your post that these rules have to apply to everyone, and my only objection is to the twits who have to make everything about race when there is no evidence of racial motivation. At my local pool in Montgomery County, MD, you change into your swim wear, put your street clothes in a locker, and then walk into the showers. The door to the pool is at the end of the showers. If you walk through the shower area without actually rinsing off, you will be told to go back and shower. It’s obvious whether someone has showered or not because the person will be wet and his/her swim suit will be wet. So maybe that is why the guy questioned the woman, because it was obvious she hadn’t showered. I don’t make know. Maybe he was just an obnoxious person and carried it too far. But all these people jumping on the “racism is the only answer” bandwagon are just as obnoxious as he was.

        2. I really like the Jimmy Dore show but it sounds like the people probably didnt take a shower and the guy was right.

      3. I pick criminal juries in Texas. I know how a substantial portion of “average” Americans interact with those of other races. But where the accused isn’t the majority color, and when a member of the venire really, really, really wants to get on my jury, it’s not too difficult to get them to say something to support a challenge for cause. So, I see up close and dirty how many would like to interact if they only had a chance. It’s there, and it’s real. Pro tip: I’m not a “politician[], opportunist[], [or] member[] of the media.”

        to darren

        1. Marky Mark Mark – the fact? that you are defending clients in a jury trial really unnerves me. From your actions on here, it is clear they would be better off pro se.

            1. anonymous – I am not the only person who has remarked on Marky Mark Mark’s lawyerly skills or lack thereof. Given his comments on here as an example of his lawyerly skills, his clients would be better of pro se.

    1. The following Muslim countries are NOT in the travel ban:

      Turkey
      Saudi Arabia
      Iraq
      Kuwait
      Lebanon
      Jordan
      Egypt
      Pakistan
      Bangladesh
      Kazakhstan
      Uzbekistan
      Turkmenistan
      Kyrgyzstan
      Tajikistan
      Algeria
      Morocco
      Tunisia
      Nigeria
      UAE
      Qatar
      Bahrain
      Oman
      Indonesia
      Malaysia
      Azerbaijan
      Mauritania
      Senegal
      Kosovo

      These are the countries in the travel ban:

      Iran, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Libya, Sudan, Yemen

        1. Hey where’s that edit function? *Countries in the ban s/b: Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Yemen, North Korea, Venezuela. Plus Afghanistan is on not included in the ban and was left off the above ‘not banned’ list. I was quickly trying to give a visual answer to “TruthHasNoBias” to show how this is not a ban on muslims and muslim countries.

        2. Rupert Murdoch’s largest investment partner is a Saudi Prince. Meaning that Fox News is partly owned by a Muslim.

        3. Why? Four of the countries on the list have active paramilitary organizations operating therein and two have hideously unfriendly governments. Saudi Arabia has neither.

          1. During the past 40 years Saudi’s have been the largest supporters of Sunni fundamentalists in the world. Al Queada, The Taliban and ISIS were all largely funded by Saudis. Saudis funded the entire system of Madrasas (religious schools) in Pakistan. Saudis have made every effort to radicalize Bosnia in the former Yugoslavia. At the end of the day it’s hard to say that Saudi Arabia is really much friendlier than Iran.

    2. I know a Jewish woman who was born and raised in Yemen. She is married to an American she met while both were visiting Israel. They live in CA, but her Jewish parents cannot visit her because Yemen is on the travel ban list. But she can visit them, or they can all meet in a third country, such as Israel. Jews and Christians in the affected countries cannot travel to the U.S., so it is not a “Muslim” ban.

      1. There are almost no Jews left in Yemen. The population decamped to Israel en bloc nearly 70 years ago.

    3. And the Tower of Babel is. I thought the Preamble to the Constitution said that this country is “for our posterity”—not for foreigners. But the Constitution is so passe. And the Bible, as well! It used to be that Protestants read and obeyed the Bible, but just like our constitution, the Bible is now Liberal heresy!

      All I can say is that America is turning into Venezuela, fast! Prudent can not be practiced. How sad. We just import more and more Sharia compliant people. Not only are we turning into Venezuela but Yugoslavia as well—both Failed States.

      And notice, we just had a coup-de-etat. How much time has Turley spent on the IG report and its many, many scandals?

      1. wlindsaywheeler – now that a study has shown that religious people live longer, there may be a return to the Bible by liberal atheists. 😉 They will do anything to live longer.

      2. All I can say is that America is turning into Venezuela, fast!

        This country doesn’t resemble Venezuela in the least.

    4. truth:
      Well you could start by reading the opinion and then realizing Obama had the same list of restricted countries and finally you could quit seeing the world as you against all racists – real and imagined.

      1. They need racists, both real and imagined. It’s the only thing that gives them a feeling of superiority.

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