Hirono: Men Need To “Shut Up and Step Up” After Kavanaugh Allegations

440px-Mazie_Hirono,_official_portrait,_113th_CongressImagine if a male United States Senator declared that women just need to “shut up.”  It would be a grossly sexist and disturbing statement that lead to calls for censure.  However, there apparently is no such concern in the inverse.  Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-HI) told men to “shut up and step up” when asked about the allegations against Judge Brett Kavanaugh. Hirono further insists that accused Dr. Christine Blasey Ford “need to be believed” and not just heard.  

 

Hirono stated:

 

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): I think we all know when something is not fair, when something smells. This is so patently not fair to her and what really bothers me and gets me so angry that the White House is victimizing this person. Why don’t we get that out there? Why should we participate in the victimization of someone who has the courage to come forward? And she is under no obligation to participate in a smearing of her and her family. That is why I am very clear about what needs to happen. But at the same time if the Republicans go forward with their plan to railroad this fast-track as they have so many other nominations, I expect the members of the press to talk about how unfair that is. I don’t think that is editorializing, that is laying out the facts. I expect that from you guys…

HIRONO: I expect the men in this country and the men in this committee because we all signed on to this letter to demand an FBI investigation. But really guess who is perpetuating all of these kinds of actions? It’s the men in this country. And I just want to say to the men in this country: just shut up and step up, do the right thing for a change.

Hirono is clearly right that Ford must be treated fairly and not punished for coming forward with her allegation. That includes not having to testify next to Kavanaugh, as her counsel suggested was the plan for Monday.  However, the calling of the hearing is not a form of victimization.  Her allegation was made shortly before the vote on Kavanaugh and the vote has been delayed.  A hearing has been scheduled for Monday but Ford is now saying that she will not testify unless the FBI launched an investigation.

On the issue of believing Ford, do you believe that she has a right to be believed or to be heard?

 

 

391 thoughts on “Hirono: Men Need To “Shut Up and Step Up” After Kavanaugh Allegations”

  1. The Charges against Judge Kavanaugh Should Be Ignored

    Dennis Prager September 18, 2018 1:03 PM

    “…Perhaps the most important principle violated by taking this 36-year-old high school-era charge seriously is the principle of the moral bank account.

    Every one of us has a moral bank account. Our good deeds are deposits, and our bad deeds are withdrawals. We therefore assess a person the same way we assess our bank account. If our good actions outweigh our bad actions, we are morally in the black; if our bad actions greatly outweigh our good actions, we are morally in the red.

    By all accounts — literally all — Brett Kavanaugh’s moral bank account is way in the black. He has led a life of decency, integrity, commitment to family, and commitment to community that few Americans can match. On these grounds alone, the charges against him as a teenager should be ignored.

    So why is this charge taken seriously?

    One reason is, as I recently wrote, the greatest fear in America is fear of the Left — the fear of what the Left will do to you if you cross it. Not fear of God. Not fear of doing wrong. Fear of the Left. Offend the Left and you will lose your reputation and, quite often, your job or your business. …”

    Another reason is pure, amoral, demagogic politics. No honest American of any political persuasion believes that if a woman were to charge a Democrat-appointed judge such as Merrick Garland with doing to her 36 years ago in high school what Brett Kavanaugh is charged with having done 36 years ago in high school, the Democratic party and the media would be demanding that the confirmation vote be delayed or that the candidate withdraw.

    A third reason is feminism’s weakening of the American female (and male, but that is another story). A generation ago, a drunk teenager at a party groping a teenage girl over her clothing while trying to remove as much of her clothing as possible would not have been defended or countenanced. But it would not have been deemed as inducing post-traumatic stress disorder either.

    This weakening of the female is perfectly illustrated by the statement released by Susanna Jones, head of Holton-Arms School, the private preparatory school for girls in Bethesda, Md., that the accuser attended. “As a school that empowers women to use their voices, we are proud of this alumna for using hers,” Jones said.

    “Empowers women”? Please.

    Nearly every woman past puberty has experienced a man trying to grope her….”

    The rest at:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/brett-kavanaugh-accusations-should-be-ignored/

  2. It’s time to stop talkin’ and start chalkin’!

    Where’s George Washington when you need him?

    And James Madison –

    June 8, 1789

    “But I will candidly acknowledge, that, over and above all these considerations, I do conceive that the Constitution may be amended;

    that is to say, if all power is subject to abuse, that then it is possible the abuse of the powers of the General Government may be guarded against in a more secure manner than is now done, while no one advantage arising from the exercise of that power shall be damaged or endangered by it.

    We have in this way something to gain, and, if we proceed with caution, nothing to lose. And in this case it is necessary to proceed with caution; for while we feel all these inducements to go into a revisal of the Constitution, we must feel for the Constitution itself, and make that revisal a moderate one.

    I should be unwilling to see a door opened for a re-consideration of the whole structure of the Government–for a re-consideration of the principles and the substance of the powers given; because I doubt, if such a door were opened, we should be very likely to stop at that point which would be safe to the Government itself.”
    _____________________________________

    “…make that revisal a moderate one.”

    “…I doubt, if such a door were opened, we should be very likely to stop at that point which would be safe to the Government itself.”

    Enough incoherence and hysteria.

    Repeal the 19th amendment by executive order under Martial Law.

    1. Settle down George!

      The Commie/Nazi Leftist Dems want violence as it seems Prof also is promoting it.

      If I & others fail to stop it right here I’m sure there are those out there that’ll give it to them.

      At that point I believe we all lose.

      & I believe Turley is to foolish to see it right in front of his face.

      Oh well.

    2. “Repeal the 19th amendment by executive order under Martial Law.”
      My goodness Crazy George, I do believe that’s the stupidest thing you’ve ever said!
      Thanks for the laugh.

      1. George is fond of scaring the children with tales of Crazy Abe suspending the Writ of Habeus Corpus because, Civil War.

        Evidently George considers that to be a legal precedent according to the principle of stare decisis or . . . whatever.

  3. If I were judge Kavanaugh and I make it to the Supreme Court. I would never forget this experience as long as I live. Somehow I think he is a better man than I could be. I still feel he would make his decisions based on the constitution and have no vindictiveness in his decision making.

  4. LOGICALLY KAVANAUGH SHOULD ‘WANT’ TO BE CLEARED

    The court is a lifetime appointment. For Kavanaugh, 53, that could be 30 years. He should welcome clearance by the FBI. No man should have qausi-rape allegations hanging over him forever.

    HERE’S WHY KAVANAUGH SUPPORTERS DON’T WANT AN INVESTIGATION:

    They know Brett Kavanaugh ‘was’ a wild kid. They know an investigation will turn up many stories about Kavanaugh’s drinking. That won’t help his case. Instead it will only deepen suspicions; creating a plausible scenario where Kavanaugh was so drunk he doesn’t remember Dr Ford.

    The FBI might also learn that Kananaugh continued drinking long after high school. Kananaugh might still be drinking to excess. And there could be something to those baseball tickets he put on his credit cards.

    Kavanaugh, one should note, charged tens of thousands to his credit cards for tickets to Washington Nationals home games. When the top rate for season tickets is only $9,000 per year. It’s all very odd and it could be the reason Republicans fear any delay.

  5. All of this is a ploy to stop the Kavanaugh vote. To smear. Unless one is raped, women need to keep their mouth shut. Men from time immemorial have been trying to get laid. They use pressure. The woman either leaves, slaps the guy, or yells out to stop it. Making a pass is NOT a crime; it is caddish behavior but not a crime. Rape is a crime.

    After watching this senator Hirono, it seems clear that No women should ever be allowed in politics. It happened 36 years ago–it needs to go away. This female has no common sense whatsoever.

  6. This fake FBI Investigation demand from the left was their built in fail safe in case things went wrong, such as being asked for evidence, witnesses or proof. The Democrats in Congress know or SHOULD know the Federal Bureau of Investigation has three national security priorities and five criminal priorities which, collectively, dictate what types of crimes the agency investigates.

    The three national security priorities include:

    Terrorism

    Counterintelligence

    Cyber Crimes

    The five criminal priorities on which the F.B.I. focuses include:

    White collar crime

    Organized crime

    Civil rights

    Public corruption

    Violent crime and major theft

    As far as anyone can tell, there doesn’t seem to be a
    Drunk Teens Fooling Around 30 Something Years Ago At Some House Somewhere In Maryland Category.

  7. NO LEGITIMATE INVESTIGATION..

    IS GOING TO HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND MONDAY

    A lawyer for Christine Blasey Ford, the woman who has accused Supreme Court nominee Brett M. Kavanaugh of sexually assaulting her three decades ago, says her client wants to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee — just not on Monday, when Republicans have scheduled a hearing. The reason is simple: “No legitimate investigation is going to happen between now and Monday,” and Ms. Ford wants the FBI to investigate the incident before she speaks. Republicans’ bristling response suggests they care more about ramming through Mr. Kavanaugh’s confirmation than about the veracity of Ms. Ford’s allegations.

    Edited from: “Slow Down Senate Republicans. The FBI Should Investigate”

    Editorial, this evening’s WASHINGTON POST

    1. Peter Hill:

      The FBI has already released a statement. The allege crime was not a federal crime, and would fall under state jurisdiction. They said this was a political issue, rather than a law enforcement one.

      The Republicans have tried to investigate the matter. Kavanaugh is willing to face questioning, live, on camera. Ford requested a delay so that she could testify. The delay was granted. Now she won’t testify. Republicans offered to let her tell her story on camera. She said no. They offered to hear her testimony off camera. She said no. They offered to not have Kavanaugh in the room. She said no. They offered her a private room, where people could go in one at a time to question her. She said no. They offered to have only female attorneys question her. She said no.

      She has refused to cooperate until and unless the FBI open an investigation into what would not be a federal crime. But civilians cannot unilaterally change the jurisdiction of the FBI.

      If she felt she was almost raped, then why won’t she tell her story and let the process of testimony move forward? Adults have to do difficult things. She apparently wants to make an accusation, without any details on where or when or who was there, and then expects Kavanaugh’s nomination to evaporate based on nothing more than her word…which she won’t even give under oath. She is not wiling to answer a single question or cooperate in any way. Meanwhile, the Republicans and Kavanaugh are gamely bending over backwards trying to satisfy her every whim.

      Her uncooperative behavior makes her story difficult to believe. Even her own supporters are having trouble with her lack of effort. Without any details to her story, or evidence, at all, all we have to go on is he said, she said, and she won’t even do that under oath. Nor will she submit to a single question. Apparently, criticizing her actions is totally unfair, too.

      And yet, in light of these facts, Democrats continue to repeat the meme that Republicans care naught for justice and are just trying to bring their man in. That has no bearing on the facts of the case or their actions trying to get to the bottom of it.

  8. It’s clear now why Jake Tappers Penis Profile story with Stormy Daniels providing vivid descriptions of Trumps anatomy and blow by blow accounts of his sexual tastes is such a hugh hit among democrat men.
    They wanted to know what a real man with a real package looks like, just in case they ever grow one.

    1. Dawn, I’m at a loss. According to you, I’m supposed to be obsessed with Tapper’s penis story? Sorry, Dawn, but I don’t have cable TV.

      But there’s an implication on your part that I’m supposed to be engrossed by this story. Just a vague, mindless suggestion that because I’m ‘liberal’ this Tapper thing concerns me.

      Dawn, this is an example of how right-wing media makes people stupid. Someone in right-wing media gave you the impression this Tapper thing is ‘big’ with male Democrats.

      And right-wing media serves up these idiotic stories on an hourly basis. Some nutty, mushy trend that liberals are into. And conservatives like Dawn take these stories seriously. And they presume that Peter Hill knows precisely what they’re talking about.

      1. Peter Hill – I probably shouldn’t tell you this, but just about everything on cable TV is available on YouTube.

  9. I can only say this about the broad from Hawaii. Not only is she incredibly stupid to get on TV and say such a
    dumb thing to America’s men, She’s also showing a tremendous amount of bias against them. Do we really need females like this in Congress? Who’s going to fight your wars, Mazie? I’m amazed that you didn’t end up at the bottom of Pearl Harbor like a lot of American troops did. (PS, Mazie, a lot of them are still there). Now who should shut up?

  10. WHY THE RUSH?

    KAVANAUGH DESERVES TO BE CLEARED

    For the record, I am not positive Dr Ford has a real case. People should be skeptical. Yet Dr Ford has shown good sense in requesting an FBI investigation. I think that’s fair for her and Judge Kavanaugh. If the charges cannot be substantiated in any way, Kavanaugh can take his seat having been exonerated.

    What Dr Ford seeks to avoid is a one on one he said, she said. I don’t blame her. A one on one wouldn’t be satisfying for either Kavanaugh supporters or Dr Ford.

    The idea that we can’t delay confirmation another week or two seems highly disingenuous. And it could blow up on Republicans. Right now the party is in serious trouble with suburban women voters. A rushed confirmation could bring blowback in November. In that regard, I half-hope Republican ram Kavanaough through. I would like to see that blowback in November.

    1. Peter Hill’s logic is that all those suburban mothers consider their male children to be perverts and that at a drop of a hat should be believed to be offenders just because they are male.

      1. Allan, you’re in the right-wing media bubble which keeps you perpetually clueless.

        Polls going back several weeks show that suburban women have drifted away from Trump. If Kavanaugh is rushed, that could alienate an already shaky faction of voters.

        1. “Allan, you’re in the right-wing media bubble which keeps you perpetually clueless.”

          I’m clueless? I deal with facts and you deal with ideological hyperbole and virtually no facts. I have answered your questions on several occassions and then you run away. Why? You are clueless and also a coward, but you already know that because right now you are facing the other way and starting to run from producing factual material.

          “Polls going back several weeks…”

          I’m not concerned with the polls. I’m concerned with your attitude toward women that assumes all of them will suddenly change their minds politically because they believe their male children to be perverts. I have to stand with the facts even if it causes votes to be lost.

          The facts are clear and so are you. You are a coward, clueless and lack facts.

    2. “Why the rush?”
      That line might have had some traction had Sen. Feinstein not sat on those accusations throughout the confirmation hearings.
      If the Judiciary Committee had that information back in July, when Feinstein had knowledge of that accusation, we would not be at this point AFTER the conclusion of those confirmation hearings.
      The timing and gamemanship of Feinstein’s timing in revealing the accusation strongly suggest a last-ditch stalling/ smear campaign to delay and/ or block Kavanaugh’s confirmation.
      Absent this 11th hour stunt by Feinstein, it’s unlikely that the effort to block confirmation would have succeeded.
      So Feinstein decides to go with “Plan B” with the hope that it will achieve what the confirmation hearings failed to achieve.
      Patience with these kinds of stunts is not unlimited, nor is patience with the statements of morons like Sen. Hirono.
      Dr. Ford has the opportunity to present her allegations on Monday, in either public or private testimony.
      Whatever she decides, the vote should proceed next week after both Kavanaugh and Ford have been given the opportunity to speak.

      1. Tom, you should no that the California State Democratic Party is not endorsing Feinstein in her reelection bid. She’s 85 years old! That alone could be the reason Feinstein dropped the ball. Fellow Democrats are not that pleased with her.

        But that doesn’t mean we have rush Kavanaugh. What’s the hurry, anyway?? Kavanaugh deserves to be cleared. The FBI could do that in maybe 2 weeks.

        1. Peter,..
          I knew that Feinstein was not endorsed by her party for re-election; it looks like she’ll get elected for another term anyway.
          This information was in the possession of others beside Sen. Feinstein. At a minimum, Dr. Ford’s Representative had the information.
          I don’t know at what point attorney(s) started to represent Dr. Ford, but it’s likely that they were in the loop far ahead of these allegations reaching the Senate Judiciary Committee.
          As far as your statement that “Kavanaugh deserves to be cleared”, there is a jumbled mess of contradictory statements about an allegation of something that allegedly happened over 35 years ago.
          As has been pointed out by others here, part of the advantage of making an accusation like this is the inability of the accused to absolutely prove a negative.
          So just making an accusation of this nature puts a cloud over Kavanaugh that he, witnesses, the FBI, lawyers, Special Counsel, etc. that Kavanaugh will be unable to totally erase.
          The vote on Kavanaugh’s confirmation has already been delayed to allow for testimony on Monday.
          You want a further delay of “maybe 2 weeks” for an FBI investigation, when the actual additional period of delay is unknown.
          At the end of the day, the FBI would be trying to determine what did or did not happen at some point in the early 1980s at an unknown location by an alleged victim who does not know where this happened, is unsure when it happened, and does not seem to remember how she got there or how she got home.
          If it was in fact “recovered memory” that brought the alleged incident “back to life”, that is another complication/ hurdle for any investigation.
          Even if this accusation had been made in a timely manner when Dr. Ford says it occured, it seems unlikely that an investigation, even at that point, would have resulted in charges being brought.
          The picture does not get any clearer 35+ years later by sending the FBI in on a cold case wild goose chase.
          These are some of the reasons that I think there should be no more stalling on this, for an FBI investigation or for any other reasons.

          1. Tom, the FBI will learn Kavanaugh was known for wild drinking. And if that alone is all they learn, Kavanaugh’s in trouble. And conservatives know that. ‘You’ probably know that! For that reason a rushed confirmation feels very urgent.

            1. Tom: I should add that it’s possible Blasey set the perfect trap. She might know that Kavanaugh was known for drunken rowdiness. She might be banking on that by insisting on the FBI investigation.

              We might learn that Kavanaugh committed drunken acts of vandalism known to many people. That could be what the FBI will learn. That would be enough to harden suspicions about the quasi-rape.

              1. And you are committing wild acts of stupidity here. I don’t know if you’re drunk, but I’d claim that so as to have some sort of excuse for such ludicrous remarks. Why don’t you just shut up if you can’t stick to the facts as they’re revealed? We don’t need your foolish crap here.

              1. I was drunken youth myself. So were many friends. We lived in a state where 18 was the legal age. Which meant any 14 year old who could pass for 18 got into bars.

                So I know how rowdy drunken teenagers can be. Even boys from the nicest homes revert to animals after 10 beers. Which was every weekend night.

                1. “So I know how rowdy drunken teenagers can be. Even boys from the nicest homes revert to animals after 10 beers. Which was every weekend night.”

                  It shows.

  11. Like déjà vu all over again…

    October 11, 1991

    Senator Biden: Do you have anything you’d like to say?

    Judge Thomas: Senator, I would like to start by saying unequivocally, uncategorically, that I deny each and every single allegation against me today that suggested in any way that I had conversations of a sexual nature or about pornographic material with Anita Hill, that I ever attempted to date her, that I ever had any personal sexual interest in her, or that I in any way ever harassed her.

    A second, and I think more important point. I think that this today is a travesty. I think that it is disgusting. I think that this hearing should never occur in America. This is a case in which this sleaze, this dirt, was searched for by staffers of members of this committee, was then leaked to the media, and this committee and this body validated it and displayed it at prime time over our entire nation. How would any member on this committee, any person in this room, or any person in this country, would like sleaze said about him or her in this fashion? Or this dirt dredged up and this gossip and these lies displayed in this manner? How would any person like it?

    The Supreme Court is not worth it. No job is worth it. I am not here for that. I am here for my name, my family, my life, and my integrity. I think something is dreadfully wrong with this country when any person, any person in this free country would be subjected to this.

    This is not a closed room. There was an FBI investigation. This is not an opportunity to talk about difficult matters privately or in a closed environment. This is a circus. It’s a national disgrace.

    And from my standpoint as a black American, as far as I’m concerned, it is a high-tech lynching for uppity blacks who in any way deign to think for themselves, to do for themselves, to have different ideas, and it is a message that unless you kowtow to an old order, this is what will happen to you. You will be lynched, destroyed, caricatured by a committee of the U.S. — U.S. Senate, rather than hung from a tree.

    1. There’s ol’ Uncle Clarence, playin’ the race card, like he’s done so successfully so many times before. Well, he got the “black seat” on the Supreme Court, and has pretty much done nothing since.

  12. Mazie Hirono is one of the dumbest Senators on Capitol Hill. Maybe dumber than Maxine Waters, if that’s possible. The only reason she holds her office is that she is Japanese-American from Hawaii where the liberal politics defy reason and imagination. Here, she’s considered “normal.” R. Walker, Waikiki, Honolulu, HI

  13. “Imagine if a male United States Senator declared that women just need to “shut up.” It would be a grossly sexist and disturbing statement that lead to calls for censure. ”
    A male United States Senator did declare that the woman, before she testified, must be confused and if you’re going to believe anyone, believe Judge Kavanaugh. Where was your uproar then? Men have been telling women to shut up throughout history. LeBron James was told to “shut up and dribble” by a woman in that instance. In the context of her entire statement, Sen. Hirono’s statement was quite clear. Republican’s in the Senate are only interested in victory, not justice, they have no interest at all in an investigation. The “witness” that allegedly supports Kavanaugh refuses to testify under oath. The format is designed to let the accuser have her say, have Kavanaugh deny it, have the vote and move on. No interest in knowing what really happened.

    1. enigma:

      “The format is designed to let the accuser have her say, have Kavanaugh deny it, have the vote and move on. No interest in knowing what really happened.”
      *****************************************

      Spare us the “believe the victim” nonsense. One is not a victim until a finding is made by a court. Until then you’re just a complainant — a very conveniently timed one.

      And you’ll never know what really happened. You’ll just slow down the nomination of a Justice the President wants. And he won the election. Thanks for the anti-democratic screed.

      1. I never used the word “victim,” nor did I say whom to believe, unlike Senator Grassley. I said to find out what happened there should be an investigation, maybe even clear Kavanaugh’s name of the cloud still hanging over Clarence Thomas’s head. In that case corroborating witnesses were not allowed to testify (Joe Biden’s lack of will). There are rumors of witnesses in this case that won’t be heard and one we know of that was allegedly in the room and won’t testify. Why not just say you don’t care about the truth but just want a justice you think will do your bidding?

        1. There is no way to clear Kavanaugh’s name. No investigation can do that because those that use character assasination, ENIGMA, make it uneraseable. One can’t prove a negative. The left has been using character assasination involving sex for years yet the biggest offenders are major leaders of the left..

        2. Enigma, I agree. We’re talking about a lifetime appointment here. Kavanaugh could be on the court for 30 years to come. We can at least take a week or two right now to find out if these allegations have any merit. Kavanaugh, in fact, deserves to be cleared if these charges are bogus.

          The only reason for rushing Kavanaugh now would be to get him on the court before the midterm elections. That’s a bad reason. For even Republicans that’s a bad reason. They could suffer a huge blowback from women voters in the midterms.

          1. Doubt it.
            Plus, are you concerned that once he’s on the Supreme Court, he would revert to his teenage boy persona and resume sexually assaulting in a drunken stupor?

            1. Foxtrot, aren’t you concerned that Kavanaugh could have this cloud hanging over him for the rest of his life??

              For that reason alone, Kavanaough more than anyone deserves an FBI investigation.

              1. Peter Hill’s false concern over Kavanaugh is duly noted but what is also noted is that Peter Hill is one of the primary persons engaged in character assasination of Kavanaugh.

              2. Unless he gets 100 votes to confirm, Justice Kavanaugh will begin and end his time on the Supreme Court with a cloud over his head. And he won’t give a rat’s a$$ who’s in that cloud.

                If there is blowback this November and for decades to come, he will join a court that will be a solid check against the ignorant masses that wanted an activist court.

                Bring it on!

              3. No, I am no more concerned over this “cloud” than I would be about any other teenage misdeeds committed by any member of Congress, or SCOTUS, unless those misdeeds continued into their adult life.

          2. There was no real reason for a delay in the vote. The accomodation was made which is fine, but the blame for the so called rusing the hearing is on the Democrats who held onto the letter until the 11th hour. Blame them. There is no reason the Judge shouldn’t be on the court starting October.

          3. Yeah, Peter….all of those suburban soccer Moms who were Trump voters might defect to the Democrats in the mid-term elections because of Kavanaugh.😉😀

            1. Tom, check the polls on that. This trend goes back to April when Stormy was still a story. And McDougal was trending. Suburban women are coming to see Trump as the ex-Playboy he is. And it ain’t cool to them. The ramifications could be serious in the Midterm elections.

            1. Only if Senate Republicans lose the respect of the people whose votes put Trump in office in the first place will the GOP lose the Senate.Claire McCaskill will likely lose her seat for announcing her ‘no’ vote on the Kavanaugh nomination. Heidi Heitkamp has called for Ford to testify but hasn’t announced a ‘no’ vote yet, and will likely not do so until the actual roll is called.

              It’s more apt to be “Block Kavanaugh, lose the Senate!”

              1. IMO, Kavanaugh migh help the Republicans keep the Senate, it will confirm everything the base believes about a conspiracy against Trump, conservatives, evangelicals, Christmas, etc. It will rile them up and they will vote in high numbers.
                Confirming Kavanaugh, especially by riding roughshod over the allegedly abused woman, making sure an alleged abuser (Clarence Thomas) got a fairer hearing that an alleged victim (Dr. Ford). Those Republicans who only supported Trump because of his input to the Court will lose some interest. Independent women, already turning from Trump in droves and some Republican women will either stay home or vote against the Republicans. Confirming Kavanaugh will also continue to activate Democrats who already are much more motivated than Republicans.

    2. A male United States Senator did declare that the woman, before she testified, must be confused and if you’re going to believe anyone, believe Judge Kavanaugh.

      How brutal.

        1. Enigma……….you mean like Obama when he said on national television from the White House….” The police acted stupidly” ?
          That was right after the Skip Gates incident……….before all the facts were available. I’m sure that was unacceptable to a stauch due process guy like yourself. I’m also sure you spoke up against the Dear Colleague letter from Obama to college campuses, authorizing the suspension of due process for the young men accused of sexual assault.

            1. enigma…….the subject to which I was responding was “declaring someone guilty before the trial”. Your words.
              Put down the bag of Cheetos and try to keep up, Ok, babe?

                1. enigma……no wonder you’re confused. The library there at the Democrat Plantation has its own dictionary with definitions like. “illegal” means “legal”.

            2. Switching subjects are we?

              Nope. The context was due process. You just don’t have a reasonable response that doesn’t expose you as a hypocrite.

              1. The FBI investigated Anita Hill’s claim. I’m not sure if they produced the witnesses Biden refused to call but my point is the FBI could and did investigate in a very similar situation. The people saying the FBI “can’t” do such an investigation are the hypocrites. And those hear that want to play “what about?” are evading the issue.

                1. enigma:

                  I guess the FBI are hypocrites, too, in your world. Anita Hill alleged a federal crime, not one here:

                  “Matt Zapotosky of The Washington Post quoted an FBI official as saying: “Upon receipt of the information on the night of September 12, we included it as part of Judge Kavanaugh’s background file, as per the standard process.” He also reported that the agency was not opening a criminal investigation into what Kavanaugh may or may not have done as a high school student.”

                2. Biden refused to call them because they’d have taken a beating under examination. People you’ve fired aren’t the most disinterested witnesses to your character, particularly when they have wretched employment histories generally (as at least one of them did and, IIRC, more than one).

                  Keep in mind that the Hill-Thomas case was indicative of the increasingly relaxed standard for ‘sexual harassment’. No quid pro quo, no retaliation, nothing particularly disgusting (e.g. e-mailing internet porn, something you couldn’t do in 1984). Supposedly he bugged her for dates and made off color remarks. (One of the other accusers complained he’d showed up at her door with flowers). Hill was so undone by his treatment of her that she followed him from the Education Department to the EEOC (her position at Education was secure) and then contacted him multiple times over the six years which followed her departure from EEOC.

                  Again, Hill’s contemporaneous witness was Susan Hoerchner. Trouble is, while Hoerchner was living in DC, Hill was employed at a private firm. It was some months after Hoerchner decamped to California that Hill was hired by Thomas.

                3. “The FBI investigated Anita Hill’s claim.”

                  They had a place, a recent time frame and people to ask.

                  Ford has none of these things. There is nothing to investigate. Tell us what else in the investigation of Thomas the FBI did that you would have them do to investigate Ford’s case.

                  They have already investigated Kavanaugh and he has been in the limelight for years.

                4. The Hill matter was federal which gave the FBI jurisdiction.

                  The Ford matter is not federal and the FBI doesn’t have jurisdiction, it is a state or local matter.

                  What has Ford provided that would give anyone anything to investigate?
                  – she’s not certain when it happened.
                  – she’s not certain where it happened.
                  – she has no physical evidence it happened.
                  – she has no witnesses that support the allegation.
                  – her therapist has notes from 2012 where she claimed it happened, but the notes make no mention of BK.

                  Unless Ford can provide something tangible to investigate, then this is the proverbial nothingburger.

                  1. There is at least one witness who heard about the incident which was “all over school” immediately after the event. Another witness who could be subpoenaed is refusing to testify. If there is nothing to find, an investigation will do no harm.

                    1. enigma:

                      “There is at least one witness who heard about the incident which was “all over school” immediately after the event.”
                      ****************************
                      Well since our alleged victim didn’t tell anyone about it for 30 years and the other witnesses deny it happened, either the new classmate busybody witness is lying or everybody else is lying. Take your pick.

                    2. The other witnesses deny it happened now. Perhaps they were a bit more braggadocious in high school. High school boys never did anything like that. All the more reason for an FBI investigation. Lies don’t flow so freely when the penalty could be jail. If the story is false, Kavanaugh would be the biggest beneficiary from an investigation. I just watched video of Grassley and Hatch during the Thomas confirmation talking anbout how the FBI investigation conducted then was the “right thing to do.” What changed?

                    3. What changed is the circumstances. First of all, the Hill issue was a federal one, thus able to be investigated by the FBI. There’s more, but anyone talking as stupid as you are won’t get more than one point at a time – but we’ll try.
                      The second thing is the timing. It’s patently political timing and to deny that shows you to be even stupider than you usually appear.

                    4. To answer your question, making a false formal accusation like a police report or under oath in a Senate hearing would be a crime.
                      The exception seems to be if a nominee for a Federal Judge or the Supreme Court lies under oath, where either the Justice Department in 2006 under a Republican administration or the Republican controlled Senate in 2018, looked the other way.

                    5. Enigma:
                      Because the Thomas affair was a harassment claim between two federal employees hence the FBI jurisdiction. This Kavanaugh allegation is a state criminal matter where the FBI has no jurisdiction. Their role is to conduct background checks which they did and then turn it over to the WH. All the known witnesses are on record and nobody supports the accuser except another classmate, who, if believed, kills another part of the accuser’s story that she didn’t tell anyone for 30 years. It transparent hogwash to anyone who has ever been involved in adjudicating claims. And so vapidly presented that only a child would buy it especially the hilarious notion that the party who now demands more time to investigate the charge sat on it for two months.

                    6. I submit that the FBI now has knowledge of something not uncovered by the initial background check and should update it. All known witnesses are not on the record and have not been asked about the incident in question. The accuser’s story she “didn’t tell anyone” is not disrupted because a third person not in the room. The source of the rumr could have come from anyone else present. The FBI took 2 1/2 days to investigate the claims that came up against Clarence Thomas. That amount of time has already passed and an investigation… excuse be an update to an investigation could already have been completed.

                    7. The Dems had the letter and did nothing.
                      Ford already had an attorney and supposedly a polygraph.
                      Ford’s name was held by a few Democrats and was leaked by Democrats.

                      The accusations against Keith Ellison are recent with documentation and with a willing plaintiff. She has been pushed to the back by the Dems and probabluy threatened but look where he stands in the Dmocratic party.

                      Another Democratic Senator beat his wife.

                      On and on the list of prominent Democrats sexually abusing woman without a peep from Democrats including the rapes by President Clinton and we all saw how Hillary Clinton demeaned the the women that were raped.

                      Here we have a claim of 36 years ago that likely isn’t true even though Ford might believe it is. No proof whatsoever and no evidence.. There wasn’t even a claim of rape and suddenly a mans reputation is ruined. If it were true which it is NOT that claim has little to do with who the man is. His reputation is stellar and that claim should not be a basis for his withdrawal.

                    8. Allan – Dr. Ford’s attorney represented Bill Clinton against Paula Jones. She said that her 10 minutes of oral sex did not constitute workplace harassment. She defended another Democratic sex offender as well. Cannot remember who.

                    9. That is an additional reason to recognize that Enigma’s claim along with several others is nothing more than cr-p.

                    10. Allan – You seem to have a little information without knowing how it fits together. Dr. Ford wrote a letter to her Congressional Rep who forwarded it to Sen. Feinstein who held it based on the desire for anonymity. Sen. Feinstein checked with the Senate Ethics committee staff but decided an investigation couldn’t take place without approval from Grassley and the White House AND exposing Dr. Ford who at that time was adamant about not being exposed and facing… pretty much what she’s facing.
                      Separately, Dr. Ford contacted the Washington Post, still requesting anonymity, at the reporter’s request she took a polygraph test (which she passed) and she obtained a lawyer to discuss her options.
                      During the confirmation hearings, other Democrat Senators got wind of the letter and began pressuring Feinstein to reveal it to them with reporters hearing that was going on,likely from Democrat sources. I couldn’t tell you how reporters got her name and started stalking Dr. Ford before she decided to come forward.
                      As far as “the Dems” having the info, technically her Congresswoman and Senator are two people therefore plural but don’t represent the Party, many of whom wish they had known sooner.
                      As far as your list of the Democrat unfaithful and abusers. The glass house you are living in must have all its windows broken by now. There is no need for me to list current Republicans because you already know who they are.

                    11. Enigma, I think you are wrong and I have things absolutely right.

                      “Sen. Feinstein who held it based on the desire for anonymity.”

                      Yet despite it being in only Democratic hands the letter was leaked.

                      “Feinstein checked with the Senate Ethics committee”

                      Feinstein had an obligation to bring that information to the committee immediately since the committe was deciding on a candidate for the SC. She do her duty to the nation. It is at that point in the investigation that she should have been questioning Kavanaugh on this situation. She didn’t do it.

                      Ford”and facing… pretty much what she’s facing.”

                      She is facing a lot less than Ellison’s girlfriend who had tangible medical records and claims. Actually she hasn’t faced very much of anything for the committee has been willing to reach out to her in unprecedented ways. The fault for any predicament she is in is due to her handlers like the lawyer who defended absolute perverts including I think President Clinton. Ford should have recognized that the use of such an attorney would create a lot more notice of everything she wished to keep hidden.

                      “at the reporter’s request she took a polygraph test ”

                      …And who obtained the polygrapher? Her attorney? …And of course you realize that polygraphs are not admissible in court for good reason, require the appropriate polygrapher along with the appropriate questions and can register true even if the person believes something that never happened. Have they released all the polygraph data? No.It isn’t even verified.

                      “other Democrat Senators got wind of the letter”

                      How would they get wind if it was being kept secret in a closed circle? …And why did the pressure build only after the interviews of Kavanaugh? …And why hasn’t her written statement been released? …And why hasn’t she testified already? …And why does she insist that Kavanaugh not have access to her testimony so he can clear his name and why have they kept the letter secret also not permitting Kavanaugh to clear his name?

                      Why? Because Kavanaugh is completely innocent and Ford may have false memories or memories that never occurred. This is nothing more than the dirtiest politics I have yet seen. Yes, Enigma, contrary to what you believe and think I do know how things fit together.

                      Lastly your comment about glass houses and your list of Republicans. The Democratic President of the United States Bill Clinton raped women that wanted none of it. Where is their justice?

                    12. enigma – what has changed is that is a closer place in time (1982-87) because of her vagueness and vagueness of location and vagueness of detail, Thomas’s alleged crimes took place on federal property and Anita Hill supposed had more detail.

                    13. mespo – could I just interject and say that supposedly it was summer so there would be no school for it to be all around? Just saying.

                    14. ha ha, that’s what cops tell people when they ask for consent to search the vehicle. please, the folks you are dealing with are not stupid

                    15. I just searched for your new witness online. All there is is a story about a woman who heard about the ‘event’ from others who heard about it from others, “with few specific details”. That’s called hearsay – and the woman is a leftie, and politically outspoken. What a surprise. She has now indicated that she refuses to speak further on this.
                      In other words, mission accomplished. She’s done her damage. I can guarantee you of at least two more like this over the weekend. Just watch.

                    16. That it was hearsay was evident when I said she “heard about it.” The part that matters is that it was contemporaneous with the alleged event. That is why the FBI is needed to cut through the bull and see whether there are credible witnesses.

                    17. I was waiting for you to bring that up. Further in the article, Ford indicated that she told no one about the event until 2012. So – who do we believe here? If Ford told no one, how did anyone know?
                      That’s going to be a challenge to get by, isn’t it? It’s the problem with lying.

                    18. Please say this out loud, it may help you to see the flaw in your statement. Three or four people were allegedly in a room when an event was said to occur. Person A says she never told anyone at the time. A person not in the room says she heard about it at school. Since Person A never told anyone, it must be impossible for the person not in the room to have heard about it?
                      Take your time… the other possibilities will come to you.

                    19. This is the updated version of The Truman Show; The Kavanaugh Show. And the Dems have overplayed their roles.

                    20. Well then, at least that witness appears to know when it happened. She should inform Ford, don’t you think?

                    21. FFS – I wasn’t a huge partier in High School, mine was nothing like what we no hear about Georgetown Prep. I could describe many of the events at parties I did attend. Ask me a date and it depends, my high school was grades 7-12 so there’s some room there. If I drove my car that narrows it down quite a bit. In most cases I could probably get within a year, location is highly unlikely except for the beer “keggers” along the banks of the Mississippi River just off the campus of the University of Minnesota. Those were college parties but if you could find it you were welcome. Anyway, not knowing the date or location of a high school party doesn’t seem all that unusual. The “witness” didn’t offer either to my knowledge although if she remembers not being able to go to the party, she might know the location?

      1. Suggestion to purge it all:
        “Since I fell for You.” Willie Nelson
        American Classic
        There is a plethora of artists that have done this song.
        Enjoy

    3. “A male United States Senator did declare that the woman, before she testified, must be confused and if you’re going to believe anyone, believe Judge Kavanaugh.”

      Does disagreeing with a woman mean “shut up?”

      “Republican’s in the Senate are only interested in victory,” Then why did they continue the hearing instead of moving forward? Why did they invite her to testify on camera, invite her to testify off camera, invite her to testify in a private room with Senators coming one by one to talk to her in the least threatening manner possible, invite her to testify using only female attorneys?

      That sounds like they’re only interested in victory? What more do you want? This is not a federal crime, so the FBI can’t do anything. And what would they do? She can’t remember where or when or who was there besides two people, and both of them said it didn’t happen.

      So….how do you prove that someone kissed you against your will and tried to unbutton your shirt 36 years later?

      Republicans have done the only thing they CAN do: they have invited both Kavanaugh and Wood to testify. Only Kavanaugh agreed to answer any question at any time live on camera. Wood would not testify under any circumstances unless the feds investigate what is not a federal crime. So…she’s going to just change the law all by herself? I thought she was doing her civic duty for justice. First it was a letter begging anonymity and offering no details, and now she won’t talk about it.

      What the heck are we supposed to do?

      1. “What the heck are we supposed to do?”
        Conduct an investigation, interview witnesses, present the findings In other words, a thorough background check based on new information.
        BTW, all the things Republicans offered to do, most of them not in public, were designed only to get the desired outcome, not the truth.
        I don’t claim to know what the truth is, I know the current process has no interest in finding it.

        1. Here comes the baloney from Enigma.

          “interview witnesses” What witnesses?
          “present the findings” What verifiable findings?
          “background check based on new information.” What verifiable information.

          Empty rhetoric by someone who should know better. Evidence. A disgraceful thing that used to happen with Democrats wearing white garbs was the lynching a black people. Taking the law in their own hands is terrible but did they ever ask ‘what evidence’? You should know better.

        2. Enigma:

          The Senate has bent over backwards trying to investigate. Ford adamantly will not cooperate. She won’t even give her testimony over the phone. She refuses to be part of the process.

          As has been explained previously, the FBI does background checks, starting from when he subject turned 18, all the way up to the present. They do not investigate juvenile records in background checks. Kavanaugh has been through this process already multiple times, and again recently.

          Their mission is to determine if the candidate is a threat to national security. He is not. They include all information in the file, with no comment as to whether they found it credible or not. Therefore, they included the letter that Feinstein provided.

          The alleged crime is not a federal crime, but rather falls under state jurisdiction. Ms. Ford is free to open a police investigation.

          You are basing your concerns on an accuser who refuses to testify or answer a single question. Inexplicably, you are upset that it has not been thoroughly investigated. If she won’t cooperate with an investigation, what do you expect? She can open a police investigation if she wants. Kavanaugh’s background investigation is complete.

          How can you say the current process has no interest in the truth? They have offered her every possible concession to get her to talk, and she just won’t do it. The Ohio kidnap victims who were sexually assaulted for over a decade were cooperative and forthcoming with law enforcement. What’s Dr. Ford’s excuse? Was what she considered a close call, getting pawed, so traumatic that she refuses to discuss it, but would really appreciate it if we can all scuttle Kavanaugh’s nomination without asking her to actually do anything?

          1. “The Senate has bent over backwards trying to investigate.”
            The Senate (Grassley) has said it will allow only two witnesses. It has no interset in the FBI following up although some of the same people, Grassley and Hatch are on the record (and video) calling for such an investigation in the Clarence Thomas case and saying it was the proper procedure.
            Dr. Ford has been very willing to testify, not in a private phone call to the Senate, not while sitting next to her abuser, and not if a format designated not to ascertain the truth but to confirm a nominee.

              1. Cindy, if a woman life wasn’t in the picture and even though what she said never happened we would be focussing on some real questions of decorum. Just because Kavanaugh is a white male doesn’t mean he loses all his rights. He has a right to face his accuser. Ford’s attorney’s aren’t permitting that. I understand because likely they feel Ford is emotionally unstable to a degree and no one wants to hurt anyone. I am sure if she was emotionally strong they would have no problem with parading her out which would be appropriate when one feels they were abused.

                I understand they don’t want her facing Kavanaugh and I can see that accommodation being made. However they also want her to testify second. That is totally the opposite of what always happens normally. The plaintiff needs to testify so that the “defendent” (Kavanaugh is not really a defendant even though he is being treated as one) knows what the charges are so that the “defendent” if able can clear his name. What is also unusual is that the actual letter sent has never been given to committee members as a group for them to review nor has it been given to the “defendent”. When is such evidence withheld while requesting the “defendent” to defend himself against that specific evidence?

                All we are seeing is the goal posts being continuously moved and a story that is in constant flux. That is why the evidence is generally put down in writing and signed so that the plaintiff is responsible for the claims being made. Her attorneys seem towant a lot of wiggle room so that her claims can be adjusted to meet what Kavanaugh says. That is blantantly unfair and totally un-American.

        3. “BTW, all the things Republicans offered to do, most of them not in public, were designed only to get the desired outcome, not the truth.”

          What the heck are you talking about? They have offered Ford every possible alternative to get her to testify – in public on camera, in public off camera, in private off camera, over the phone…Now you take issue with the off camera options? She’s the one who was refusing to testify!!!

          The only option left is to drug her with truth serum and drag her to the hearing.

          Rape is a deadly serious offense. I don’t care who does it, it’s evil. I was a fan of Bill Cosby’s until his own fall from grace. He’s lost my approbation forever.

          It is not the Republicans’ fault that Ms Ford is an uncooperative witness.

          As for interview witnesses, Ms Ford has said she does not know who was there, except for Kavanaugh and Judge, both of which denied it. Who do you interview if she doesn’t know who was there? Was it someone from her high school? His? Someone else’s? Older than high school? Middle School? An adult? Who knows? Ford sure doesn’t. She doesn’t even know where this party was. Does that mean she doesn’t know which town, city, borough, neighborhood? How do you interview witnesses at an unknown location 36 years ago? Can she narrow it down to a state?

          How would this go? We need the FBI to ignore jurisdiction and take over a local state police matter. Please go interview who might have been at a party 36 years ago, number of people, unsure, maybe 5. Who was there? Don’t know besides Kavanaugh and Judge (who would tell the FBI they have no idea what she’s talking about.) OK, where was the party? Don’t know. When was it? Don’t know. The other people there, who were they? Don’t know. How old were they? Don’t know. What school were they from? Don’t know. Are they going to interview the entire state, including everyone within 5 years of their class who has ever moved away? And ask them, what? Did you ever go to a party with Kavanaugh and Ford? That would be how many thousands of people who graduate within 5 years of Kavanaugh?

          The witness has got to cooperate with an investigation and allow questions if she wants to be taken seriously. If she won’t cooperate, it’s ludicrous for her to get upset at not getting her way.

            1. My “vendetta” consists of asking for an FBI investigation which has been the standard. Being nothing if not flexible, if she can’t get that, she should file a police report in Maryland where there is no Statute of Limitations for attempted rape. We can have an open investigation of a Supreme Court nominee while Republicans cover their eyes, ears, and mouth.

              1. “My “vendetta” consists of asking for an FBI investigation which has been the standard”

                It is not the standard and never has been. In fact everything surrounding her charges are not standard. I don’t know of a time where such a claim ever gained credibility. Keith Ellison’s wife certainly wasn’t treated as credible by the Democrats.

                Why hasn’t she filed a police report in Maryland? She never accused him of rape nor did she provide any evidence in her story that he was going to rape her. She was afraid it would get worse. I am afraid when I walk outside that I will be beaten up by that person on the block. Let’s jail him because he might have thought about doing it.

                I think the Dems should be charged for using Ford and causing her harm.

              2. “My ‘vendetta’ has been asking for an FBI investigation……” Gee, is there anything else they could do for you? Pick up your dry cleaning, maybe ? Anything? LOL

                  1. He has already been investigated and the claim is bogus whether or not it involves false memories.

                    Let her testify, provide the letter and provide all the proof. If there is something there it can be investigated but one can’t investigate in a vacuum unless the reason behind the investigation is purely political stalling and glaring abuse of privilege.

                    Let’s investigate Keith Ellison. That has been requested and the information provided. That is why you appear so hypocritical.

          1. Karen,
            I would not be surprised if we get an 11th hour cooperating witness (or 2) complete with now fully vivid details of crimes beyond what has been alleged. Possibly crimes that would give the FBI jurisdiction.

          2. She wanted an investigation completed first, and not to sit next to her abuser. The same people that conducted the background investigation have the ability to update it. Separately, the President could ask for it, although he’s never sided against a Republican accused of a sex related crime. There is what I believe to be a Federal crime involved which are the alleged death threats against Prof. Ford, presumably to prevent her testimony and obstructing justice. Of course, it would take an investigation to know for sure. Imagine if some lunatic actually killed her? People would blame the FBI for taking no action.

            1. Has Ford made a police complaint against those presently threateneing her? Have the police provided her with extra protection? Has she taken pictures of those that have threatened her or protested in front of her house?

              I’m just asking and not for political reasons.

              On the political end, her complaint against Kavanaugh appears to at least be partially funded by organizations on the left. No problem with that but if they are funding her have they also reached out to protect her? If so, what are they doing? If not, why not?

              1. Allan – I don’t know if or to whom she may have reported the threats. Here’s an article which states she raised $200,000 through a GoFundMe account set up by an individual named in the article. Not familiar with the source, take it for what it’s worth. Allegedly, Sen. Susan Collins has reported getting threats as well. It’s unclear to me if the threats are coming from the same people threatening Dr. Ford or from the far left?
                I thing most of the threats were on the Internet and her social media was allegedly hacked as well.

                https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/death-threats-force-ford-family-into-hiding-200000-raised-for-security/

                1. Enigma, I don’t like violence against anyone or threats. However, I am aquainted with a lot of prominent conservatives many many of which have been threatened and even attacked physicially. Some of them always have a body guard close by. Some of the attacks have been videotaped and shown on TV or the net. A few of them have been blacklisted in the film industry so they use an alias when producing certain types of films. The left promotes that type of action. It is reprehensible.

                  Even though I think what Ford says is either a false memory or something made up no one should be threatening her and everyone should join to protect her. They should do the same for both sides of the aisle.

                  Ford’s threats should be reported to the police and if they haven’t been one has to wonder why.

                    1. Has she filed a complaint with the police that are the ones responsible for her protection? If not, why not?

                      Did she file and sign the paperwork with the FBI? If not, why not?

                      Take note how complaints without any tangible proof are thrown around like crazy but whether or not she signed a police complaint is not known and what she says is again very indefinite.

                      The people surrounding and advising her are doing a lot of dancing along with trying to dictate how the system should work for Ford even though that is not the way it works for everyone else.

            2. enigma……..you sound so ridiculous because you are out of your depth. You have no idea what you’re talking about.and listening and believing Constitutional giants like Joy Behar and Chris Matthews is not helping you sound intelligent.
              This isn’t a game or a tv show. This is real life with real laws!

            3. “She wanted an investigation completed first, and not to sit next to her abuser.”
              *******************************
              She wants to stop the nomination. Demands for justice is the pretext. Not to sit next to him? Is she five? We have a Sixth Amendment. She has to confront the man she accused. We don’t have a Star Chamber — yet.

                1. I want to see Enigma go to every rape trial and insist the person raped not have to make her accusations in court in front of the accused rapist. In Ford’s case the Senators have bent over backward to satisfy every possible reasonable need. She doens’t have to face the man she accuses. Ford’s attorneys want none of that. They are interested in protecting rapist Presidents while assasinating the characters of stelllar human beings.

                    1. That Trump’s sexual behavior is a little much for a lot of people is not disputed by his supporters. They accept the truth something Peter Hill and Enigma never accept from candidates on their side like Keith Ellison. Both of these guys engage in character assassination.

                      Trump’s cases involving sex are closed and didn’t involve forse. Those that support him don’t run away from his bad features. He didn’t force Stormy Daniels the most well known case. Consensual sex is not a crime. His balance book is a gigantic positive without any of this sexual nonsense enterring his political career.

                      That differs from people like Clinton where the cases of rape were never closed and his sexual problems occurred while he was representing the people and while he was in the WH. Liberals loved Clinton despite his activities and while they loved him and they loved his wife who demeaned the women that had been raped.

                      There is no such thing as women’s rights in the Liberal movement. Rights mean the ability to think on one’s own and believe what one wishes. That type of right is not permitted to woman whose beliefs don’t follow that narrow path which happens to include character assassination of other women.

                      You guys have no integrity.

                    2. Who did he rape? He doesn’t. He might pay for sex and he might have sex outside of marriage but with Trump there is no force.

                      Clinton on the other hand used force and used his office to help him while his wife, Hillary, demeaned the women involved.

                      This shows how engaged you are in character assassination along with victimhood. Nothing that comes out of your mouth can be trusted.

                      In any event Ford’s claim is over 35 years old without any evidence, a changing story, no recollection of who else was at the party, where it took place, when it took place and whole bunch of other things surrounding this claim that invalidate it. You know it but to you truth and honor doesn’t exist. You will do anything to promote your cause. That is how we differ. I place integrity at the top of the list.

                    3. “Who did he rape?” Stay with me Allan, I said Trump has been accused twice that I can think of for rape. Make a little effort to see what information is available. I suspect you coul Google; Trump, Rape, and get more information than you can stand. In the end, it will remain true that Trump has been accused at least twice of rape.
                      Now, Clinton has been accused of rape as well. Neither have been convicted and under the law, both are presumed innocent. You don’t have a double standard do you? Believe everything bad about Democrats and refute any claims against Republicans. Nah, that couldn’t be true.
                      By the way, you were doing so well in engaging in a conversation but you’re reverting back to your standard M.O. of personal attacks. Has that ever gotten you anywhere?

                    4. ” accused at least twice of rape.”

                      Enigma, I am accusing you of 4 rapes. You have now been accused of twice as many rapes as Trump and for all we know my accusations might hold more truth.

                      Clinton has been accused of rape by multiple women that haven’t recanted so he has not been proven guilty of rape but we do remember how those “rape” victims were treated by the Clintons. This is a long history where proof of abuse exists including Clinton’s own account in his own words. Talking about double standards.

                      “Believe everything bad about Democrats ”

                      I don’t care what party someone belongs to. I apply the same rules. You on the other hand slime anyone if it meets your ends. You don’t care. You have no moral qualms against character assassination which seems to be the major part of your life on this blog.

                      You make unfoiunded attacks against people all the time. I don’t care if they are members of the list or people none of us know personally. To me your attacks are the same so consider yourself doing exactly what you are accusing me of. The only thing is what I say is based on proof that is in black and white on this list.

                      I don’t care if you respond to me or not. I respond when I want to. Your MO sucks. Character assassination, victimhood and identity politics are your mainstays of discussion. That is disgusting and dirty below the dignity of people I generally associate with.

  14. On the issue of believing Ford, do you believe that she has a right to be believed or to be heard?

    Every person has the right to be heard.

    Extraordinary allegations presented 36 years after the fact require extraordinary evidence in order to substantiate the allegations.

    A hearing has been scheduled for Monday but Ford is now saying that she will not testify unless the FBI launched an investigation.

    How would FBI investigate 36 year old, he said – she said, allegations involving two persons?

    Ford coming forward 36 years after her alleged assault on the eve of the vote for Kavanugh’s confirmation to the supreme court reeks of political character assassination.

  15. We have reached the point where real values like honesty, character,the rule of law, etc. mean nothing to the elected leaders sworn to same. Power is the only value in the Democratic Party. Winning and destroying anyone/everyone that has an oposing opinion with you is what is important. Belief in democracy as long as I win and that you completely agree with my party’s platform is all that will be tolerated…..(sick)

    1. sr………..I completely agree. They are such a destructive force in this country………Evil is the best way to describe them. Total evil.

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