Poll: One In Three College Students Believe Violence Is Justified To Stop “Hate Speech”

Online survey of 800 full-time undergraduates conducted by McLaughlin & Associates and sponsored by Yale University’s William F. Buckley, Jr. Program found that a startling number of colleges students believe that violence is justified to silence what they consider to be hate speech.  Today we discussed an FSU student arrested for battery in a confrontation with conservative students.  I will be having a debate at Rice University over calls for schools and government to outlaw hate speech.  As with many in the free speech community, I have been opposed to such criminalizing of speech.

Also worrisome is that 53% report that they  feel “intimidated” to share their views — a problem that both students and faculty have shared with me though the years.
Again, as I said in the earlier posting, there have been a number of faculty who have reinforced this view. At the University of California at Santa Barbara, feminist studies professor Mireille Miller Young led her students in attacking pro-life advocates, stealing their display, and then committing battery on a young woman. Despite pleading no contest to criminal assault, Miller Young not only was retained but widely supported by faculty and students, including those who viewed the pro-life advocates as “terrorists” who should be kept off campus. This month, the University of Oregon gender studies department is featuring her as a speaker.

In the case of Miller Young, various faculty members publicly supported Miller-Young. Some publicly denounced the media and the victims in this case. History professor Paul Spikard wrote to object to the court that Miller-Young is the victim of “an energetic smear campaign . . . fomenting racial hatred and rallying right-wing political sentiment.” He insisted that the media was intent on displaying another example of “an Angry Black Woman.” What is striking is that Spikard opposed even a mandatory anger management class in the case. Faculty made every excuse for a professor assaulting people with opposing views on campus.  One letter from the court came from Eileen Boris, a professor in the Department of Feminist Studies, Bwho tried to deal with the fact that Miller-Young is smiling during the assault and both she and her students appear to be proud of their actions in the video. Professor Boris dismisses the video record as misleading and inaccurate. She explained to the court that “[i]f she appears smiling on camera, she is ‘wearing the mask,’ that is, she is hiding her actual state through a strategy of self-presentation that is a cultural legacy of slavery.” I was equally disturbed by  the response by Michael D. Young, Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs which seems to treat the pro-life demonstrators as the problem while encouraging faculty and students not to attack such “outsiders.”

With responses like the one at the University of California (Santa Barbara), it is little surprise to see that students believe that violence is sometimes the answer. Both students and some faculty have maintained the position that they have a right to silence those with whom they disagree and even student newspapers have declared opposing speech to be outside of the protections of free speech.  The CUNY Law Dean, Mary Lu Bilekeven argued that shutting down free speech is free speech. 

That is not the only influence.  I have also discussed how Antifa and other college protesters are increasingly denouncing free speech and the foundations for liberal democracies. Some protesters reject classic liberalism and the belief in free speech as part of the oppression on campus.  The movement threatens both academic freedom and free speech — a threat that is growing due to the failure of administrators and faculty to remain true to core academic principles.  Dartmouth Professor Mark Bray, the author of a book entitled “Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook” is one of the chief enablers of these protesters. Bray speaks positively of the effort to supplant traditional views of free speech: “At the heart of the anti-fascist outlook is a rejection of the classical liberal phrase… that says I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” He defines anti-fascists as “illiberal” who reject the notion that far right views deserve to “coexist” with opposing views.

Bray says that the protesters do not “see fascism or white supremacy as a view with which they disagree as a difference of opinion.” Their goal is not co-existence but “to end their politics.” Bray and other academics are liberating students from the confines of what they deem the false “allegiance to liberal democracy.” Once freed of the values of free speech and democratic values, violence becomes merely politics by other means.

 

179 thoughts on “Poll: One In Three College Students Believe Violence Is Justified To Stop “Hate Speech””

  1. “….. a startling number of colleges students believe that violence is justified to silence what they consider to be hate speech.”

    Also, a startling number of people believe that violence is justified to silence what they consider to be truth speech. Especially if it illuminates their lies….

    1. A startling number of men believe that violence is justified to properly train their women…

      At the end of the day, violence is only justified in the extreme case of self-defense.

  2. I expect decent, traditional, free speech liberals such as JT will soon be referred to as “Nazis” merely for supporting the 1st Amendment. Maybe as soon as the 2020 election cycle.

    1. Antonio, yeah, the conservatives on this blog will be calling JT a Nazi for being ‘too liberal’. You see the Nazis of Germany were actually ‘liberals’ according to revisionist history by Alex Jones. And commenters on this blog are now devoting considerable attention to promoting this revisionist history.

      So next time JT acknowledges that Robert Mueller has a good case against someone close to Trump, loyal Trumpers on this thread may actually refer to JT as a ‘Nazi’.

      The phenomenon is known as ‘blowback’. For too long JT has pandered to furious conservatives with columns depicting liberals as mean bullies. So eventually said pandering will ‘blowback’ in Turley’s face.

      Any day, when Mueller’s probe resumes press coverage, some Trumper on this thread will call JT a ‘Nazi’ for being ‘too liberal’. At that point JT will realize he’s been feeding a monster of stupidity.

      1. I have heard plenty of Alex Jones. he called nazis leftists. I do not remember him calling nazis liberals. but maybe he did? SO, please, let me know if you have a clip, post it here.

        As I explained last week, nazis were not liberals, but they were a syncretic mix of “left” and “right” elements.

        It’s as wrong to call them leftists as to call them “extreme rightists” but nobody cares much for historical accuracy where “nazi” epithets are being tossed around, do they?

    1. Jay S.,
      I don’t think we are headed for a civil war.
      Buy it’ll be no contest if we are; the Red States have most of the nukes.😂

      1. and the food. cut off food shipments to NYC, SF, LA, and in two weeks it’s over.

        the liberals, if any of them survive, will suddenly be the biggest fascists imaginable

        1. HoD wants to irradiate his offspring’s food supply with thermonuclear weapons for a couple hundred years.

          Gnash calls that victory.

          1. L4Yoga/Annie/Inga enables David Benson, and the NPCs R. Lien and Marky Mark Mark – that sentence about irradiation does not make a bit of sense. I read it four times and it was just an inane each time. I think Tom Nash can call a clear Victory since he caused you to have an aneurysm.

            1. Gnash said The Red States have the most nukes. Kurtz said The Red States have the most food. Nukes plus food equals irradiating ones offspring’s food supply for a couple hundred years or so–assuming no nuclear winter and, therefore, global warming continues unabated.

              1. L4Yoga/Annie/Inga enables David Benson, and the NPCs R. Lien and Marky Mark Mark – you do realize that no ones kids are going to live for a couple of hundred years? Have you been watching The Walking Dead again?

  3. (music– Four Dead in O Hi O!)

    This summer I hear them coming.
    They’re probably on their way.

    Gonna get down to it !
    Soldiers are cutting us down.
    How can you run when you know?

  4. A fine example of ole JT pushing his favorite line of those poor conservatives not getting their say. The one thing the right-wing hates is people standing up to their BS.

    1. Yeah the Left are great debaters! Like that Gillum intern, for example. She did manage to throw in a few f-words amid her milk bombs. Now she can debate the folks in jail where milk throwing can be a capital offense.

  5. If an institution wishes to, they could require everyone to attend a speech sensitivity class and then let it go at that. Many people don’t realize that what they do and say creates resentment in others. Racism, homophobia, anti-Jewish comments, Anti-Semitism (attacks on Arabs and Jews with Semitic heritage), can feel so good to some people that they are unaware that it makes others view them as depraved.

    1. Sam:

      “If an institution wishes to, they could require everyone to attend a speech sensitivity class and then let it go at that.”

      **************************
      I’ve got no problem with manners. I have a big problem with compelled manners.

      1. You mean like demanding that athletes not kneel during the national anthem?

    2. Sam, I believe the issue is, who gets to define racism, homophobia, etc.?

  6. One letter from the court came from Eileen Boris, a professor in the Department of Feminist Studies,

    There’s your problem. The faculty assented to the administration’s status-jonesing in creating this department. There is no such academic discipline. It’s an indoctrination center. Nor is there any demand for these courses from students to speak of. There are 1,200 degrees in ‘womens studies’ issued every year in this country out of 1.8 million bacclaureate degrees issued. Imagine a state master’s granting institution with 11,000 students which issues 1 or 2 diplomas a year in a particular subject. The salaries going to the 3 or 4 professors who staff that department are being cross-subsidized by the departments which actually have a corps of students voluntarily taking their courses. Shut those programs down. Do it tomorrow.

    1. There is no such academic discipline. It’s an indoctrination center.

      Time for student loan reform as well. There’s always a service for a market. Market needs to become more exclusive.

      1. Slohrss, just yesterday I read that conservatives plan to start a campaign against academia. It seems that higher education is going to be the next front in the Culture Wars

        1. Ha! it’s been one a long time. Now they finally grow a brain, if indeed that’s the plan!

          William Lind explained the “Long March through the Institutions” by the left and the only alternative is to march it back.

    2. I find it amazing how universities that loudly decry nationalism have no problem supporting and encouraging ethnic or gender tribalism.

      1. only if it knocks down white men. that’s the key. ethnocentrism ok so long as it knocks whites down

        the funny thing is a lot of these scoundrels are white. figure that one out. crazy!

        1. I assume those whites feed the crocodile thinking it will never eat them. They will be eaten last.

          1. How many non-White college students attend the classes that the “crocodile feeders” teach?

      1. Ending the teaching of subjects with which you disagree is . . . A) Censorship? B) Tyranny? C) The Menstrual Show?

        1. “…A) Censorship? B) Tyranny? C) The Menstrual Show?”
          ~+~

          So which is it for C) “Minstrel show” or “Menstrual Flow”?

          I have it on good authority those are two very different concepts.

          1. Menstrual Show is a pun on the term Minstrel Show. If it didn’t look so strange when you read it, I’d have typed Menstrualsy, instead.

            1. To Don Pablo below,

              Picture Trump delivering one of his nagging ragging tirades at a campaign rally.

              Now reread the phrase Menstrual Show.

        2. L4Yoga/Annie/Inga enables David Benson, and the NPCs R. Lien and Marky Mark Mark – what is your new obsession with menstruation? Have you stopped having yours and you are missing that part of your life?

          1. I’m remembering the Chicago Alderman Edward Vrdolyak’s description of Mayor Jane Byrne: “deranged by menopause”. Sounds like our girl.

  7. 1. It’s an online survey. It’s almost certainly a convenience sample and the numbers are rubbish.

    2. There are definite limits to the utility of survey research which can be summarized in the phrase ‘talk is cheap’. Talk to an economist about the problems in using survey research to price untraded natural resources. These surveys might detect latent problems, but what interests you is actual revealed preferences.

    3. Observing actual behavior, you see these hooligans are a small minority. The problem is that they have the support of the administration, specifically the student affairs apparat. Some faculty are scoundrels like the character quoted, but most are status-conscious poltroons who will do nothing and passively assent to the ruin of the climate of public discussion on their campuses.

    4. Ultimately, the superordinate administrators to whom the chief of security reports take their cues from the faculty.

    5. The solution, as always is to take the institutions away from the people currently running them. That can be done by modifications in the corporation law governing these institutions, changing the make-up of the board of trustees, mandatory retirement for faculty, and replacing tenure with renewable contracts for faculty members under 55.

    6. Another element of the solution to to close extant ‘schools of education’ and schools of social work and replace them with an array of institutions with different mandates. The student affairs apparat are commonly carrying around MEd degrees. The school of education on any campus is very often a sinkhole of stupidity and political indoctrination and should cease to exist. Social work is a nonsense profession.

      1. And, as usual, you cannot be bothered to offer a single discrete argument.

        There’s a reason for that. Ultimately, the people who own this situation are a Bourbon class and there’s nothing David Benson values more than the privileges they have, privileges of which they are properly stripped and of which he is properly stripped.

    1. WRETCHED SAYS: “..mandatory retirement for faculty, and replacing tenure with renewable contracts for faculty members under 55”.

      The idea here is to reduce every College Instructor to contract employees working on just a semester-to-semester basis. This idea, in fact, is the basic concept behind Charter Schools.

      ‘For too long teachers have been union employees thumbing their nose at Republicans. Now we have to punish every member of the education field; especially College Instructors! They must feel the full of weight of conservative fury!’

      1. No, Peter. The point is to put an end to a situation wherein institutions are turned into sandboxes for faculty. This isn’t that difficult.

        I notice you fancy higher education is yours, just like other liberals fancy the public schools are theirs and the media is theirs and the right to organize politically is theirs. Get over it.

        1. Well if it’s any consolation Tabby, a growing number of college instructors are now part-timers, or ‘Adjunct Faculty’. Which means they aren’t likely to ever gain tenure. Sadly these part-timers require additional part-time jobs just to make a living. In that regard they’re not unlike Walmart employees.

              1. Right back at you, anonymous. Happy Election Day.

                (I’ll be sweating bullets all day long. Eeksie peeksie.)

          1. About 70% of the teaching man-hours are put in by f/t faculty. A great many of these p/t faculty are clinical faculty who make their real living doing something else. Given the 65% of the baccalaureate degrees given out are so in occupational majors, of course you want a great many working professionals teaching classes.

            And you’re not understanding the attraction of adjuncts and term faculty. If they’re problem employees, you’re not stuck with them for 30 years. If the student interest in the discipline tanks (as happened with sociology after a certain date), you’re not left with a bloated corps of tenured professors. Limit tenure to faculty who will be retiring in ten years, and many of these p/t positions can be replaced with a smaller number of f/t positions.

    2. they should be rounded up into maoist style reindoctrination camps and harangued for a few years on thin soup and hard labor until they wise up. i am serious about that. let them taste what they offer

      1. Is that before or after you irradiate them with thermonuclear weapons from North Dakota?

  8. I wonder if college students are intellectually capable of seeing the irony of their belief that violence is justified to stop hate speech? Probably not.

  9. AW POOR CONSERVATIVES: BULLIED BY MEAN LIBERALS!

    One suspects Professor Turley has pledged to run ‘X’ number of columns per month about innocent conservatives tormented by liberals. The only question is ‘who’ has Turley pledged to?

    Typically these stories feature ‘Right-To-Life’ demonstrators. People displaying posters of aborted fetuses in busy, public spaces. Posters calculated to upset people. Then these demonstrators feel threatened when people get upset!

    30 years ago, conservatives observed that liberals embraced a ‘culture of victimhood’. But now conservatives thrive on victimhood. An alleged Hispanic, who comments on this blog, is begging liberals to call him a ‘racist’.

    And meanwhile Donald Trump is stoking as much fear as possible regarding caravans of migrants from Central America. Trump, it seems, wants to keep his base afraid. There’s always a threat that only Trump discerns.

    This brings us back to Professor Turley. Who feels obliged to feed this culture of victimhood.
    Next week Turley will post another column regarding bullied conservatives. And we’ll read again how ‘Pro-Life’ demonstrators were harassed by feminists.

    1. PH, it’s not easy for Turley to distract his blawg hounds from The Tree of Life Synagogue mass-shooting incident perpetrated by a man deranged by Trump’s fear-mongering campaign against “The Caravan.”

      OTOH, everybody stopped talking about the Trump inspired pipe-bomber Cesar Sayoc after the Trump derganged Bowers killed eleven Jewish Americans while they were worshipping in Pittsburgh. So Turley’s workload could have been worse.

      P. S. I think there’s something or other about, you know, the free exercise of religion in, you know, The First Amendment. IIRC (?).

        1. L4D said, “The Tree of Life Synagogue mass-shooting incident perpetrated by a man deranged by Trump’s fear-mongering campaign against ‘The Caravan.'”

          The lawyer-talker said, “the Synagogue shooter hated Trump. You keep lying.”

          What part of L4D’s statement did the lawyer-talker expose as a lie? The part where L4D did not say that Bowers loved Trump? Time to get the tampons out your ears, too, lawyer-talker.

          1. The lie: Your conniving way of implying Trump motivated this tragedy and that the shooter was Trump inspired. You don’t get to weasel out of your implications. By the way, the synagogue shooter hated Trump and lawyers are good at pointing out innuendo.

            1. Bowers specifically targeted the members of a Jewish refugee resettlement organization that Bowers believed to be assisting The Caravan about which Trump has been mongering fear. You’re not even good at removing the tampons from your ears, let alone pointing out the innuendo.

                1. Adorno asked, “Western Civilization is moribund. Agree or disagree.”

                  David Steinberg answered, “Booga-Booga!”

                  Did you know that Marcuse and Adorno were mopey Spenglerites, too?

            2. Excerpted from the article linked above:

              It happened toward the end of the Obama administration during the debate over Syrian refugees. Attention ratcheted up recently as President Donald Trump and others started drawing attention to the migrant caravan slowly making its way through Mexico toward the U.S. border.

              Trump intensified his warnings about the caravan Monday, tweeting, “This is an invasion of our Country and our Military is waiting for you!”

              “White supremacists are ginned up right now,” Beirich said. “Their words are being echoed back to them by high-profile public figures.”

              HIAS also has been public in its opposition to Trump’s immigration policies. It sued the administration in 2017 over the executive order halting refugee resettlement. In August, HIAS and the ADL led a delegation of national Jewish organizations to the U.S.-Mexico border.

              Segal said the high-profile visit this summer could have drawn the attention of right-wing extremists

            3. Excerpted from the article linked above:

              Before committing the Tree of Life massacre, the shooter, who blamed Jews for the caravan of “invaders” and who raged about it on social media, made it clear that he was furious at HIAS, founded as the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, a Jewish group that helps resettle refugees in the United States. He shared posts on Gab, a social-media site popular with the alt-right, expressing alarm at the sight of “massive human caravans of young men from Honduras and El Salvador invading America thru our unsecured southern border.” And then he wrote, “HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.”

              1. L4D:
                Well we flushed out your real meaning intention amid all the obfuscation. Here’s the rebuttal to your disguised (sort of) premise:

                https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/29/donald-trump-robert-bowers-racist-anti-semitic-synagogue-shooting-column/1800755002/

                That, plus Israel’s own official response which exonerates Trump completely. But what does the Jewish stare know about Jews that you and the Atlantic don’t already know?

                1. Can you rebut an argument that was actually made? Or are straw-man arguments the only ones you can rebut?

                  I gladly concede that Trump is not an anti-Semite. Now who said Trump was an anti-Semite? It’s intuitively obvious that Robert Bowers is an anti-Semite. Since Bowers hates Trump, and since Trump is pro-Semitic, maybe Mespo has discovered why Bowers hates Trump. But does that mean that Bowers didn’t commit mass-murder because of Trump’s fear-mongering about The Caravan? No. Mespo has failed to rebut the argument that actually was made.

                  1. Well your concession shows progress. Now distinguish how suggesting Trump’s rhetoric caused the synagogue shooter to act differs from the proposition that Sanders’ rhetoric caused James Hodgkinson to shoot at Republicans.

                    1. Trump in his own words:

                      “This is an invasion of our Country and our Military is waiting for you!”

                      Robert Bowers in his own words:

                      “massive human caravans of young men from Honduras and El Salvador invading America thru our unsecured southern border.”

                      “HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.”

                    2. L4Yoga/Annie/Inga enables David Benson, and the NPCs R. Lien and Marky Mark Mark – Bowers is clearly seeing a connection no one else is. If you see it, could you lay it out?

                    3. Go ask Judicial Watch and Fox News to make the connection that Robert Bowers said he saw.

                      Then go ask Steven Miller and Sloppy Steve Bannon.

                    4. L4D:

                      Trump in his own words:

                      Okay, guys it’s time for lunch!

                      Mussolini in his own words:

                      Gente, è ora di pranzo

                      Therefore Trump is Mussolini.

                      Logic — or its absence — is fun.

                  2. I guess to L4D a massive group of military age males announcing a forced home invasion is just another Friday night party. Who’s bringing the keg?

                    1. 7,000 divided by 320,000,000 equals 0.000021875.

                      That’s just barely a rounding error for land surveyors calculating declination from True North.

                      Tell trump to send kegs to The Caravan and they’ll probably never make to the U.S./Mexico border.

                2. Mespo,…
                  – Remember Bugliosi’s comment in a closing argument, with the description of opposing counsel as “the Toscanini of Tedium” 😂due to tactics of endless deflection and obfuscation?
                  I hadn’t thought about that Bugliosi remark in years, until I read some of Diane’s comments.

                    1. L4Yoga/Annie/Inga enables David Benson, and the NPCs R. Lien and Marky Mark Mark – I have known a few women who love to be punished and dominated.

              2. well, the left likes collective guilt and collective punishment. it teaches those lessons all the time., from vicarious liability lawsuits against “hate groups” to blaming Trump for what some supporter did wrongly.

                So a violent nutcase took the lesson, didn’t like what this group did to import refugees, and imposed his own unlawful and hateful version of collective punishment

                tribal hate, that’s one of the many dubious lessons of the Old Testament. I would bet the shooter was a gentile, but no Christian.

                1. Is The Left a tribe? Is The Left “a collective”? Do you find fault with “individuals” for being “The Left”? Do you punish “individuals” for being “The Left”? Are you an individual who is aware of the content of his own thought? Or are you just another automaton reciting the catechism, “Hail Trump!”???

      1. PH said, “And meanwhile Donald Trump is stoking as much fear as possible regarding caravans of migrants from Central America. Trump, it seems, wants to keep his base afraid. There’s always a threat that only Trump discerns.”

        Trump’s fear-mongering about The Caravan pushed Robert Bowers over the edge into the mass-shooting of eleven American Jews while they worshipped at their synagogue in Pittsburgh. Turley’s not even talking about it. Do you know the excessively literal meaning of the word “stupid”???

        1. “Trump’s fear-mongering about The Caravan pushed Robert Bowers over the edge into the mass-shooting of eleven American Jews while they worshipped at their synagogue in Pittsburgh”
          ********************
          And that damn Churchill’s violent speeches against poor, oppressed Adolph pushed him over the edge and made him invade France. Bad Winnie, bad!
          You guys are hilarious.

            1. L4Yoga/Annie/Inga enables David Benson, and the NPCs R. Lien and Marky Mark Mark – over time you have made many illogical statements, but this one heads the list. L4Yoga is not to logic as Paul is to sanity.

                1. Trump made no violent speeches against Robert Bowers the way that you asserted that Churchill made violent speeches against Hitler.

                  Ergo Trump is not to Churchill as Robert Bowers is to Hitler.

                  Meanwhile, Trump has been making fear-mongering speeches against The Caravan. And, looky, looky, Robert Bowers was furious at HIAS and Jews for supposedly assisting refugee resettlement that Bowers linked to The Caravan shortly before he committed the Tree of Life Synagogue massacre.

                  1. L4Yoga/Annie/Inga enables David Benson, and the NPCs R. Lien and Marky Mark Mark – did Trump even know who Bower was? And, if you assume that George Soros is a Jew (which is questionable), he is partially funding The Caravan using a secondary funding source, a pass-through (it is perfectly legal and something he does all the time) then Bower has a point.

                    That said, I think he is bonkers.

                    1. OFCOLA. George Soros is an ethnic Jew. He didn’t stop being ethnically Jewish when his parents stopped practicing Judaism, the religion.

                      I’m fully prepared to presume that Trump didn’t know Bowers from Adam’s orb ox.

                      I’m not as inclined as you are to knuckle under to every last piece of disinformation and propaganda that Judicial Watch publishes about Soros or about The Caravan.

                      How did Bowers get to be so bonkers in the first place?

                    2. L4Yoga/Annie/Inga enables David Benson, and the NPCs R. Lien and Marky Mark Mark – I did not get my information from JW about and George Soros is as much Jewish as I am Irish. See if he has right of return.

              1. Churchill is not a “set.” Scotsmen are a “set.” Excluding Trump from the non-set of Churchill does not commit the scope fallacy known as the No True Scotsman fallacy.

                I swear: People who claim to be logical in the act of planting their flag in the mere name logic are just more evidence of the primitive mind running amok in the world.

                1. L4D:

                  “Churchill is not a “set.” Scotsmen are a “set.” Excluding Trump from the non-set of Churchill does not commit the scope fallacy known as the No True Scotsman fallacy.”
                  ***************************

                  Churchill was a leader who criticized a threat to his nation; there was a violent action thereafter. Exactly the same situation as Trump’s criticism yet no one blames Churchill for Hitler’s actions. Likely, because Hitler — like our synagogue shooter — was(ere) going to do what they wanted to do with or without the outside rhetoric. You might as well blame the advancing column on our Southern Border for the shooting which, of course, no sane person would do in discussing a proximate cause for the deaths.

                  You use of the fallacy is in trying to exclude Trump from set of democratic leaders using rhetoric to warn the nation of a threat because you think Trump is not a true leader in the mold of Churchill and ipso facto my analogy is inapposite. (“Trump is not to Churchill as Robert Bowers is to Hitler.”)

                  The “No true Scotsman” fallacy in when you attempted to protect your universal generalization of Trump’s rhetoric from my counterexample of Churchill’s rhetoric by changing the definition of a true democratic leader to exclude the counterexample. Thus in the example: democratic leaders are the set; Churchill is your “true Scotsman” and member of the set while Trump is “not a true Scotsman” and therefore not a member of the set.

                  Be honest, now: Did you ever take a logic class? Next time I’ll use flash cards for you. Yeeesh.

                  1. Your argument reduces to the following analogy:

                    Trump is to The Caravan as Churchill was to Hitler.

                    You offered that argument to rebut the claim that Trump’s fear-mongering about The Caravan pushed Robert Bowers over the edge into mass murder. Notice that Robert Bowers has no analogous position in your argument. Had Churchill’s warnings about The Gathering Storm led someone somewhere to commit mass murder, then, and only then, would Robert Bowers have an analogous position in your argument. Since that’s still not the case with your argument, once again you have failed to rebut the argument that was actually made.

                    The say that relevance has something to do with logic. Don’t they?

                    1. According to your reasoning, Churchill’s speeches caused Hitler to commit mass murder, the German’s lethal proclivities notwithstanding. You’ve got all the pieces right, just backward.

                    2. There was no analog for Robert Bowers in your argument. The Gathering Storm against which Churchill warned did not push any such analog for Robert Bowers over the edge into mass murder. The Caravan about which Trump is stoking fear is a paltry analog for The Gathering Storm against which Churchill warned. The eleven American Jews whom Robert Bowers massacred in Pittsburgh are hardly equivalent to the six million European Jews exterminated during Hitler’s final solution. And, in any case, Trump didn’t make any speeches warning against Robert Bowers’
                      massacre of those eleven American Jews. Instead, Trump made fear-mongering speeches about The Caravan that pushed Robert Bowers over the edge into mass murder.

      2. From the Oxford Online Dictionary entry for “stupid”:

        Origin Mid 16th century: from French stupide or Latin stupidus, from stupere ‘be amazed or stunned’.

      3. That’s ‘it’, Tabby? The ‘clever comeback’ to my comment..??

        Perhaps you wrote that on the train as your stop approached?

        1. Try to concentrate, Peter. The subject is the culture and social dynamics of higher education. This isn’t that difficult, except you aren’t any better at approaching this subject than you are at assessing German history or political sociology. That’s because every subject under the son is an occasion for a recitation of talking points by you, to the point where you cannot make sense of even simple data which cannot be jimmied into that framework. Justice Holmes provides another example here, whinging about Donald Trump, who is quite irrelevant to the dispute in question.

          So, confronted with this story you had a number of choices. One was to ignore it. It’s just another petty dispute in a big country with petty disputes every hour in every day. Another was to lament that the woman has a bad temper, doesn’t know how to present a coherent argument on the fly, and is really disoriented. It’s a frigging gubernatorial contest in Florida fought between a pure career pol and a lawyer with an odd career. This dim-witted ho’ cannot tell the difference between a slick quondam Navy JAG and Ernst Roehm. The results you see on video. This ought to embarrass you, but it doesn’t.

          Instead, you pivot to a discussion of Randall Terry, Joseph Scheidler et al. who, I don’t think were in the habit of screaming obscenities at people or throwing things at them. It’s irrelevant to the matter at hand Terry and Scheidler weren’t in the habit of engaging in profanity-laden tirades and throwing things at people. (The lawyer left used and was permitted to use every tool in the box to shut Terry and Scheidler down, which tells you something about our court system).

          Here’s a suggestion: STOP BEING STUPID.

    2. you don’t like Turley’s blog then you could always go away?

      liberals aren’t like that; they have to force other people to agree with them. that’s freedom for a liberal: the freedom to force others to agree

      1. Ah-ha! So that’s why HoD and Gnash threatened PH with thermonuclear weapons from The Red States. Because conservatives don’t have to force people to agree with them. They can just commandeer the nuclear arsenal of The United States and nuke all of the liberals instead.

        HoD is yet another menstrual trouper who refuses to take the tampons out his ears and put them in his mouth where they belong.

        1. There may be remedial courses in reading comprehension in an area where L4B resides.
          Her understanding of written words might improve if she completes a course.
          I did not threaten ” PH with thermonuclear weapons from the Red States”
          I didn’t even threaten L4B with nukes, although if I had to draw up a priority target list for a non-nuke drone strike…..
          I predicted that there would be no “civil war 2.0”, and stated that if it were to happen, it’d be “no contest” because the Red States have most of the nukes.
          The Onion “article” on North Dakota nukes was satire, although they do in fact have a large number of nukes within their state.
          I gave that Onion article to a North Dakota transplant in Arizona; I thought that she and her husband would get a kick out of it.
          Instead, the next time I saw her at the store where she worked, she said “They’re making it sound like it was our idea to have those nuclear missles there”.
          She sent it to some people in North Dakota, and said that one couple was going to “contact their Congressman” over the Onion “article” 😄.
          That misunderstanding happened again when I copied the Onion article about Johnson and Johnson’s new baby shampoo, “Nothing but Tears”.
          The theme was that the abrasive, stinging shampoo would toughen up the babies and help prepare them for life’s hardships ahead.
          A young couple read it …..I had given a copy to a librarian, and she was called away from her desk.
          They were waiting at her desk; later, I heard the wife say to her husband ” Did you know that Johnson and Johnson has a new shampoo that makes babies cry?”😧
          Those misunderstandings make some of those Onion articles even funnier.

          1. Ptom Gnash thinks that satire and parody are wholly-owned subsidiaries of The Red States, too.

  10. Oh, their really only arguing for restricting others speech, which they don’t like. I’m willing to bet they don’t want to live by the same standard.

    1. We could only be so lucky if liberals were compelled to live in a world in the same manner they demand everyone else must.

  11. Well I guess when they spend an inordinate amount of time on social media and twiddling their thumbs on their smart phones, without any sort of real-world desire for interaction among other human beings it becomes quite easy to hold no value in other people.

    Of these that express the need to advocate violence as described in the article I would venture to say that 98% of them are paper-tigers who couldn’t muster enough fortitude to go after someone other than shouting incoherently at them in a childish rage. The other ones, the two-percent, just deal with them when the time comes, if it does–just like any other jackasses out on the street bent on violence.

  12. Great post. This is worrying and yet all so familiar. The fact they are now openly arguing against free speech – and this is held as a valid argument – is most alarming. Hard-won freedoms are being given away with little thought for the consequences. It makes me feel sad more than anything else.

    1. I understand your concern Marcello but with regard to free speech and thought we will only lose what we willingly surrender. I say give them nothing.

  13. In Nogales, Sonora just across the line from Nogales AZ there is a statute showing a young boy spearing a dragon. It’s name is The Death of Ignorance.

        1. Mr Kurtz – did you read the wiki? Right off it says it is a feathered serpent. 😉 No dragons there.

  14. First they sign up for college loans and at the same time make their draft status change to -volunteered. Wonder how many of them will believe in violence when they called in for an induction physical? Mostly chicken spits from an objectivist viewpoint. And the equal opportunity demanding women get a free ride.

      1. Duck, bob and weave and reframe all you want.

        In your case I can see why you play stupid and go Huuh?

        As Pelosi said yesterday. When we are in charge we will have to think of ways to correct the budget. Tax increases of course. The cycle of economic repression another and of course another series of wars. And another ten or twenty trillion in debt.

        Nancy wants her crumbs. Being in the top tenth of the top one percent is expensive.

        As for your illiteracy and comprehension inabilities? Not my problem talk the teachers who gave you all those social promotions.

  15. Yes, the Congressional Dems and their supporters have entered the Gates of Hell and its American voters’ job to keep them out of any position of leadership for the near future.

    They are so unworthy.

    1. Rodin made a sculpture entitled “The Gates of Hell” which was cast multiple times. I’ve seen two.

    2. Lying, cheating, condoning violence against journalists by the Republican President has put us beyond the Gates of Hell, my friend. He and his cult followers are unworthy but unlike many very high placed Republicans I wouldn’t suggest they be silenced, beat up or killed. I do however suggest that they be voted out in a fair election.

      As to this “survey”, I hardly think it’s very scientific or appropriately conducted.

      1. Try to concentrate Justice Holmes. The post isn’t about the President, but about the culture of higher education, which has been problematic for decades.

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