For Whom The Bell Tolls: UC-Santa Cruz To Remove “Mission Bells” As “A Symbol Of Racism And Dehumanization”

We have previously discussed the removal university names, mascots, and symbols in recent years in response to student protests, including an effort to replace the GW “Colonial” mascot. I have previously expressed my concerns over the removal of long-held mascots and names in colleges from “the Cowboys” to “Shooter the Fox” to the Aztecs to the “Fighting Sioux” to “Chief Illini” to the “Prospectors” to the “Pioneers.” Now, students have succeeded in convincing the University of California Santa Cruz to remove the traditional California “mission bell” from campus. The bells are part of the the path of the historic El Camino Real, the 700-mile trail that connected the 21 California Spanish missions with hundreds of such bells. Critics insisted the “Deeply painful symbols that celebrate the destruction, domination and erasure of our people.’

In its announcement, the university declared that the bells are “viewed by many populations as a symbol of racism and dehumanization of their ancestors.” However, they are also a symbol for many of the expansion of Christianity and missions throughout North America. There is no question that this was a period of terrible crimes and abuses for Native Americans. There was abuse and cultural destruction. That is history that should be taught and recognized. However, these missions also sought to bring schools, hospitals, and, yes, the Christian faith to the Southwest. To often, it is simply easier for administrators and faculty to simply remove historical monuments or symbols. Not only does it quiet any protests, but it avoids the danger of being targeted as insensitive or even racist. It is far more difficult to add to such displays to create a more accurate or inclusive understanding of history. It is the difference between education and expungement.

The question is a familiar one when symbols and figures hold different meanings for different groups. Valentin Lopez, Amah Mutsun Tribal Band chairman called the bells “deeply painful symbols that celebrate the destruction, domination and erasure of our people. They are constant reminders of the disrespect our tribe faces to this day.” I entirely understand that view and agree that these missions caused untold harm to many Native Americans in forcing the adoption of a foreign language, culture, and faith. However, the missions also have an altruistic meaning and purpose like Mission San Rafael Arcángel which created a medical asistencia as part of Mission San Francisco de Asís. It was the first sanitarium in the region. Both meanings can be represented together in such public displays.

As I have argued previously, I am reluctant to see the removal of such historical images as opposed to placing them into a fuller context. This would seem an ideal case where adding information is better than removing it.

What do you think?

176 thoughts on “For Whom The Bell Tolls: UC-Santa Cruz To Remove “Mission Bells” As “A Symbol Of Racism And Dehumanization””

  1. Once again, poof positive that children should be seen and not heard. Also that the un-controlled amount of students graduating with no useful skills other than ‘sociology’ is poof of the failure of the free moocher system. What you end up with is overcrowded moocherism as if it weren’t bad enough already. Maybe in time they could learn to shovel…. with hands not speaking in tongues.

    1. Let’s burn all books , art, everything.
      Because someone will be offended.

      I guess teaching history, the good the bad the ugly would only cause safe spaces to be overcrowded.
      Like those “ concentration” camps at the border. Eh

      Is it any wonder Suicide and Gun Violence is up.
      PC is a weakening of the soul, traces Victimology, disparate emotions and zero coping skills.

      What an Evil Propaganda PC is. Posing as Good when it’s actually destroying.

  2. Any serious student of American paleoanthropology realizes that regardless of which civilization is the oldest on this complement, the New World is a vast palimpsest on which many different peoples left traces. overwriting what other races left, being overwritten in turn. Europeans are but the latest in that procession. It’s neither praiseworthy nor evil. It just is.

    1. Any serious student of American paleoanthropology realizes that regardless of which civilization is claimed to be the oldest on this continent, the New World is a vast palimpsest on which many different peoples left traces,. overwriting what other races left, their own traces being overwritten in turn. Europeans are just the latest in that procession. It’s neither praiseworthy nor evil. It just is.

  3. As I have argued previously, I am reluctant to see the removal of such historical images as opposed to placing them into a fuller context.

    Meh. Liberals define their entire miserable existence on this planet by doing what Cory Booker does

    Cory Booker

    Verified account

    @CoryBooker
    Follow Follow @CoryBooker
    More
    I will be introducing a bill to remove Confederate statues from the US Capitol building. This is just one step. We have much work to do.

    7:52 PM – 16 Aug 2017
    11,809 Retweets 59,352 Likes Joel LiscioGMSMatt McAllisterBopBizCenterPeg AltomariNatalieSANDRA DIRKSON-“Game Changer”Sarah AckleyKeri Ann Flaccomio
    3,935 replies 11,809 retweets 59,352 likes
    Reply 3.9K Retweet 12K Like 59K
    New conversation

    Darrell B. Harrison

    @D_B_Harrison
    17 Aug 2017
    More
    Replying to @CoryBooker
    Um, while you’re at it, is there any chance you’ll be introducing a bill to remove abortion clinics from black neighborhoods? Never mind.

    3 replies 7 retweets 38 likes
    Reply 3 Retweet 7 Like 38

    Ryan Michaud

    @rybizz2024
    17 Aug 2017
    More
    Or Margaret Sanger from the Smithosonian

    0 replies 1 retweet 13 likes

    1. I will be starting an online petition to Cory Booker to reveal his actual home addresses. You know, all those places since 1997 that he actually went home to at night.

  4. “The First People in America were the Neanderthals.” -Karen S

    Maybe. But it’s not a fact. Not yet.

  5. “They have an overexcited lymbic system…” Karen S

    If one is going to write about the limbic system, it might be a good idea if one (our little scientist, in this case) could spell it correctly.

    1. It’s a blog comment, not an oeuvre. I miss spelling errors and auto correct mistakes all the time, which is why I’m sympathetic when they pop up in our host’s blog, as well.

  6. If you visit a California mission, there may very well be an Indian cemetery under the lot where you park your car.

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Indian-burials-at-state-missions-go-unmarked-3144002.php
    “… Edward Castillo, a member of Southern California’s Cahuilla tribe and a professor of Native American studies at Sonoma State University…. and E. Breck Parkman, a state parks archaeologist, are campaigning for a memorial to the 900 Indians buried at the Sonoma mission.

    “I’ve been frustrated that our understanding of the missions is that the padres built the missions,” Castillo said. “When you go to the graveyards of the
    missions, all you see are monuments to contributors to the church in the late 19th century. . . . In fact, they were charnel houses, where Indians labored for nothing and died.”

    “In California, there are 80,000 Indians in mass graves, buried liked cordwood, and no one has ever put up a monument to them,” he said.

    In Sonoma, nothing marks the mission’s two Indian cemeteries. The dead are buried in mass graves – one under a street and landscaping next to the reconstructed mission and another in a nearby open field. …”

    1. There are plenty of mass graves from the innumerable tribal wars between Native Americans in pre-Columbian times. Including mass slaughters of children whose bodies were unceremoniously dumped into pits. Should each of them get a memorial, or do they matter less because Europeans weren’t involved?

    2. After high school, he enrolled in the University of California, Riverside with a major in American frontier history and a minor in Latin American studies. After graduating in 1969, Castillo took a minority counseling position at the University of California, Santa Barbara. In that same year he was hired as a graduate student instructor in UCLA’s newly established Native American Studies program.[2] Ed is the recognized father of Suelematra (first marriage, Cassandra and Andrew Castillo (second marriage), although he may have other children.

      This is the authority you’re citing. This guy is Sonoma State’s Ward Churchill, and the smart money says no one’s ever checked his work.

  7. It is amazing all of the scientific discoveries happening in our lifetime. I thin it will take a few more years for the debate to settle down over Neanderthal/Denisovans. But it’s clear that there were multiple migrations of people over time. It really is too bad that the written word did not exist then. There are so many possibilities of clashes, cooperation, or, more likely, a combination.

  8. Leftist will not stop, they want a civil war. They will loose by a wide margin, it will just prove how ignorant they really are.

  9. Karen made this definitive statement a few days ago, and it’s been mentioned again today. She said:

    “The First People in America were the Neanderthals.”

    https://jonathanturley.org/2019/06/17/students-demand-removal-of-oregons-100-year-old-pioneer-statue/comment-page-1/#comment-1858586

    She said a lot more, but let’s go with that one sentence. (Refer to the link, above.)

    Now here’s what others are saying about Karen’s pronouncement — her little fact:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/science/prehistoric-humans-north-america-california-nature-study.html

    “Prehistoric humans — perhaps Neanderthals or another lost species — occupied what is now California some 130,000 years ago, a team of scientists reported on Wednesday.

    “The bold and fiercely disputed claim, published in the journal Nature, is based on a study of mastodon bones discovered near San Diego. If the scientists are right, they would significantly alter our understanding of how humans spread around the planet.”

    (GOT IT? “The bold and fiercely disputed claim…”)

    And here’s more from the linked article:

    “Some experts were intrigued by the research, but many archaeologists strongly criticized it, saying the evidence didn’t come close to supporting such a profound conclusion.”

    Karen pretends that it’s an accepted fact. It isn’t.

    1. Karen pretends that it’s an accepted fact, but — unless there’s something new from an authoritative, academic source — then what Karen asserts may not be true. (And she does this kind of thing all the time. All. The. Time.)

      (Is Karen S being paid by someone (some right-wing group) to post lengthy comments that often distort the truth?)

      1. I doubt it. White “racists” do however like the idea that there were pre Clovis population of Homo Sapiens from Europe here, not Neandertals. See Kennewick man case.

        1. I believe the pre-Clovis tribes migrated from Asia, or at least were considered Eurasian.

          Since some modern tribes contain Clovis blood, I wonder if that makes them proto-Eurasian pioneers? It is so cool to think how everyone is connected, if you go far enough back.

          1. i prefer the multiregional hypothesis, which of course is considered “discredited.” eventually DNA mapping will make a lot more of this clearer than it is today.

      2. Anonymous – “Karen pretends that it’s an accepted fact.” Stop lying. I have said, repeatedly, that such paleolithic discoveries are actually hotly contested for years. I also included articles on multiple waves of human migration, even before the Clovis. That is the nature of such papers. They will wrangle about this for some time.

        Stop saying that I dispute that no one questioned the papers, or that it is not debated. The articles that I posted discussed it.

        All such discoveries are debated and argued about for years, and whenever there is a new discovery, all that went before might change.

        There is something seriously wrong with you.

        1. Karen S said the following: “Why don’t students know their history? The First People in America were the Neanderthals.”

          My response.

          https://jonathanturley.org/2019/06/20/for-whom-the-bell-tolls-uc-santa-cruz-to-remove-mission-bells-as-a-symbol-of-racism-and-dehumanization/comment-page-2/#comment-1859279

          Keep twisting yourself in knots, though. Karen S, trying to prove that you’re right. Good luck with that.

          And while you’re at it, Karen S? You might want to keep the psychological projection in check.

    2. Anonymous (is this the banned Anonymous/L4D?)

      Again, you appear not able to comprehend my comments, or how scientific theory works. I actually linked an article that you quoted. Here I will cut and paste my comment verbatim, with bold to help you find the key points. I have been following the developments in paleoanthropology for the last year or two. Did I say that there was universal acceptance? Why, no, I did not. There are always more discoveries on the horizon. Paleo studies require evidence to survive for over a hundred thousand years across an entire continent. New sites are always being discovered. Why would anyone assume that anything is the end all of any paleolithic line of reasoning?

      “I suggest you learn more about the evolution of modern man – Neanderthals, Denisovans, Cro-Magnon, etc.

      The paleoanthropologists and paleobiologist have been excitedly arguing over the past couple of years about a study suggesting that Neanderthals made it to the New World before Modern Man. The drama will probably go on for a few more years at least.

      “Prehistoric humans — perhaps Neanderthals or another lost species — occupied what is now California some 130,000 years ago, a team of scientists reported on Wednesday.”

      Recent scientific discoveries include that dinosaurs were warm blooded, some had feathers, birds evolved from theropods, and that there were several offshoots from the human family tree. We have also discovered that people with European or Asian ancestry have approximately 2% Neanderthal blood.

      Even if the most recent studies are excluded, and you ignore the recent development about Neanderthal migration, the Clovis pre-dated current Native Americans. They were not first, however, as there is evidence that there were multiple migrations from Eurasia, and the Clovis were merely among the earlier migrants. The Clovis genes were incorporated into later Native American genetics, in much the same way that Neanderthal genes were. Considering the long history of enslaving prisoners and conquered tribes, such a process may not have been consensual.

      This is all very recent and exciting, opening up a vista of new research possibilities. In any case, referring to Native Americans as First Nations or First People is not correct. There were multiple waves of human migration, which some studies suggest even included other species of humans. You will note that the land does not perpetually belong to the first human beings who set foot on it, and their descendents. All of these people traded and fought with each other, and their lands changed hands many times. In the context of reparations, you could spend a hundred years trying to untangle who owes whom, going back to paleolithic times.”

      Then I went on to link to an article that discussed the various waves of migration, and the shift in time table.

      So, what’s your point? Are you arguing that current Native Americans really were the first people in North America?

        1. L4D – this is how science works.

          Archeology, paleontology, and paleoanthropology are entirely different fields than physics. For instance, sometimes a paleontologist will find one single bone from a new dinosaur species, and they use deduction to flesh out its form and declare it was a sauropod. It will be represented a certain way until or unless they make another discovery, that adds to the body of knowledge, and then tweak that representation of that sauropod.

          During a period of time after a discovery, scientists will have different opinions and conclusions. That is why they talk about “consensus in the scientific community.” When you are talking about traces of human activity from Paleolithic times, there will rarely be 100% concensus. Rather, there will be a range, and likely years of wrangling.

          For instance, there is no concensus on what exact degree human activity affects the climate. Most scientists agree that human activity does affect climate, but they in no way agree on how much that impact is, or even if it is a majority contributing factor.

          And yet, Climate Change is talked about as established science. What journalists do not understand is that it can never be 100% established science. There are too many factors, synergies, and the computer models are inaccurate. We as a species have just started learning about the complexities of climate science on a planetary scale. If you actually follow the research, they are constantly making new discoveries about climate both in the present and past, which, sadly, become politicized, misunderstood and sometimes corrupted. Climatology is different than physics. We don’t have a Hadron Collider to test very specific climate conditions under laboratory conditions. OK, bad example, as that would create a black hole or dark matter. We can’t set up planetary climate experiments like we could study light refraction with a prism.

          You do not seem to grasp this concept.

          1. I’m not L4D. And I hope you received some compensation for that comment, and all of the other lengthy ones that you post to JT’s blog. Some right-wing outfit is likely paying you.

            Karen S said the following: “Why don’t students know their history? The First People in America were the Neanderthals.”

            My response.

            https://jonathanturley.org/2019/06/20/for-whom-the-bell-tolls-uc-santa-cruz-to-remove-mission-bells-as-a-symbol-of-racism-and-dehumanization/comment-page-2/#comment-1859279

            This is to Karen, who is always right — even when she isn’t. Now you have a good day, honey.

            And keep trying to explain “how science works.”

            1. You are using the same phrases as L4D, who was banned for incivility, including the libel that I’m a paid commenter.

              At this point, you either cannot understand, or are being deliberately obtuse.

              1. Karen, it’s flattery to call you a paid poster. I get that all the time from unwitting righties. I would never think anyone is paying them for their postings.

              2. It’s not libel, Karen S. It’s a question. Are you? It’s been suggested that you might be a paid commenter. (In your case, something doesn’t seem to add up.) No one is saying you **are** a paid commenter — only that it looks that way to some. Some people wonder.

                To say that it’s “libel” is ridiculous, but it’s a clue as to how you see things. Which takes us to your comments about Neanderthals. You didn’t say “maybe” or “perhaps”… — or “new discoveries would suggest”… Nope you said “were.”

                “The First People in America **were** the Neanderthals.” (emphasis with asterisks has been added)

                But that’s how you operate.

                And contrary to Anon’s assertion. It’s not “flattery.” Nor am I L4D. You and others see what you want to see and not what actually is…

                1. You have repeatedly said that I’m a paid poster. “No one is saying you **are** a paid commenter.” Actually, you have, repeatedly. Only once in a while do you pose it as a question. It is obviously harassment and trolling.

                  I have repeatedly told you that I am not.

                  A recent paper indicates that the first people in the United States were Neanderthals. As I’ve told you, very clearly, such papers will be hotly discussed for years. I am well aware of the issue.

                  I have also posted articles touching on the body of evidence that there were multiple migrations, even before the Clovis. This was in support of my assertion that the Native Americans were not First People, at all, but rather part of a series of migrations, and territory changes, and that therefore it is hypocritical to blame the United States for holding land now, when it has changed hands countless times over millennia. You might as well claim that Scotland belongs to the Picts. Could anyone ever sort out who were the original owners of any square foot of Europe, and if so, could they argue that those who first set foot on that land, should have ownership passed down exclusively to their descendants in perpetuity, politics and warfare be damned? If so, I’d like to see the wording on that deed of trust.

                  Do you continue to say that Climate Change is manmade, although scientists do not agree whether the human component is less than, equal to, or greater than 50%? If so, then you are stating your conclusion when there is not 100% consensus.

                  1. “A recent paper indicates that the first people in the United States were Neanderthals.” Karen S.

                    Why don’t you give us that source again.

                    1. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22065

                      Here we describe the Cerutti Mastodon (CM) site, an archaeological site from the early late Pleistocene epoch, where in situ hammerstones and stone anvils occur in spatio-temporal association with fragmentary remains of a single mastodon (Mammut americanum). The CM site contains spiral-fractured bone and molar fragments, indicating that breakage occured while fresh. Several of these fragments also preserve evidence of percussion. The occurrence and distribution of bone, molar and stone refits suggest that breakage occurred at the site of burial. Five large cobbles (hammerstones and anvils) in the CM bone bed display use-wear and impact marks, and are hydraulically anomalous relative to the low-energy context of the enclosing sandy silt stratum. 230Th/U radiometric analysis of multiple bone specimens using diffusion–adsorption–decay dating models indicates a burial date of 130.7 ± 9.4 thousand years ago. These findings confirm the presence of an unidentified species of Homo at the CM site during the last interglacial period (MIS 5e; early late Pleistocene), indicating that humans with manual dexterity and the experiential knowledge to use hammerstones and anvils processed mastodon limb bones for marrow extraction and/or raw material for tool production. Systematic proboscidean bone reduction, evident at the CM site, fits within a broader pattern of Palaeolithic bone percussion technology in Africa3,4,5,6, Eurasia7,8,9 and North America10,11,12. The CM site is, to our knowledge, the oldest in situ, well-documented archaeological site in North America and, as such, substantially revises the timing of arrival of Homo into the Americas.

                      Those who question the findings argue that the breakage was not manmade, and they were not hammerstones. The author stated that the stones were not a natural part of the substrate, and specifically showed use-wear, rather than erosion.

                      It is an interesting find. This article came out a couple of years ago, and is still being debated.

                  2. In the future, you might want to be more careful about your wording, Karen S. Don’t state something as a if it were a fact, when it isn’t.

                    1. Anonymous – how would this work in Paleoanthropology, in your mind? No conclusion would ever be able to be drawn because in all of the square miles of America, there might be trace evidence or even a burial site found one day of an even earlier human habitation than earlier thought.

                      You are lying when you claim I have not repeatedly referenced the discussion about the Neanderthal paper. Just like you lied when you denied claiming I was paid to comment here. Can’t handle the discussion? Then lie and claim I get paid.

                  3. More lies brought to you by Karen S:

                    “You have repeatedly said that I’m a paid poster. “No one is saying you **are** a paid commenter.” Actually, you have, repeatedly. Only once in a while do you pose it as a question. It is obviously harassment and trolling.

                    “I have repeatedly told you that I am not.”

                    _____________

                    So Karen is finally saying that she’s not paid to post. Therefore one must conclude that she likes wasting copious amounts of time and energy on JT’s blog — in spite of claiming that she doesn’t have enough time in her life — because of the Affordable Care Act. She can’t “be all that she could be” (paraphrasing) because she’s been forced to take a “telecommunity job” offered by a family friend because she has to pay higher premiums, etc. under the ACA.

                    As I’ve said before, her story — the one that she’s spilled out here over the years — just doesn’t pass the smell test.

                    And Karen? Calling someone out on their nonsense isn’t “harassment and trolling.”

                    When you say things like the following — without any qualification — you should be challenged — you deserve to be challenged.

                    “The First People in America were the Neanderthals.” So says Karen S.

                    1. I finally denied being paid to post? What are you talking about? You, yourself referenced all the times I told you that was libel. In fact, I said that to L4D, too. Are you another sock puppet? L4D said earlier that she creates new Anonymous sock puppets to get around the repeat bans.

                      You also got my story incorrect. Deliberate? It was a relative, not a friend, who offered me a job where I could telecommute (not “telecommunity”) in order to get an employer policy. My Obamacare policy was cancelled when identity theft interfered with the premium, and I would have been uninsured til Open Enrollment. It was too expensive, had bad coverage, and no good doctor I tried accepted it.

                      How interesting. If you are not another L4D Anonymous, but rather a new one, how did you not only know about, but misrepresent, my post to her?

                    2. Karen’s gone off the rails in her comment at 8:15 PM; she seems a bit unhinged.

                  4. Karen isn’t interested in the science of first humans in the New World or ClimateChange, she’s interested in the politics and the science is just a prop for her talking points.

                    It is not necessary that a group be the “the first” to occupy land to have claim it, or any illegal immigrant has a claim to Karen’s yard.

                    There is a clear scientific consensus on Climate Change and Karen is denying it also for political reasons, not scientific ones.

                    Here’s coverage of the position of virtually every significant association of scientists in the world, including the various national academies.

                    “National and international science academies and scientific societies have assessed current scientific opinion on global warming. These assessments are generally consistent with the conclusions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

                    Some scientific bodies have recommended specific policies to governments, and science can play a role in informing an effective response to climate change. Policy decisions, however, may require value judgements and so are not included in the scientific opinion.[21][22]

                    No scientific body of national or international standing maintains a formal opinion dissenting from any of these main points. The last national or international scientific body to drop dissent was the American Association of Petroleum Geologists,[23] which in 2007[24] updated its statement to its current non-committal position.[25] Some other organizations, primarily those focusing on geology, also hold non-committal positions…..”

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_climate_change

                    1. There is a clear scientific consensus on Climate Change

                      No there’s a lot of government grant money sloshing around, bad data, and corruption of the peer-review process.

                    2. Let’s see, Absurd disagrees with The National Academy of Sciences – as well as the Academies of every civilized country – on climate change.

                      This is big news and presents a tough choice for the rest of us.

                    3. Anon:

                      My comment was “For instance, there is no concensus on what exact degree human activity affects the climate. Most scientists agree that human activity does affect climate, but they in no way agree on how much that impact is, or even if it is a majority contributing factor.”

                      What is the human contribution? 47%? 53? 98? 87?

                      The consensus is that humans affect climate change. The disagreement is what is our percentage contribution, compared with all of the other contributing factors.

                      For example, we are currently in a solar minimum, which may last up to 2 years. That is why we are having such a cool summer. The IPCC in fact states that humans are responsible for more than 50%. Why not an exact figure? Because there is no consensus on what the exact human contribution is.

                      Take heat islands, for example. Hardscape and the resulting chopping down of trees creates higher local temperatures, and lower humidity. The trees would have removed carbon, provided cooling shade, absorbed and retained water, prevented runoff, stabilized soils. That water would have recirculated into the air. Forests affect rain patterns. Hardscape causes water runoff, the loss of underground aquifers, lowers humidity, reflects light, heats the local air, dries the underlying soil…

                      Meanwhile, this is operating against the background of solar minimums, volcanic eruptions, forest fires that release tons of particulates and denude hillsides and forests, cooling oceanic currents, salinity changes, impacts on phytoplankton…

                      Human influences on the world will always be an estimated range.

                      You should also be interested to know that the original data was lost for many of the temperature sites, and all we have left is homogenized data. In addition, locations such as China actually moved their recording locations. Those are also confounding variables that lead to more of an estimate than any exact calculus.

                      Don’t get me started on the shocking conflicts of interest in the IPCC, or the intense politicization of climate science.

                      We have been warned several times that we would already be underwater by now. However, people get instant amnesia and forget that these predictions were not accurate. Now AOC is again going with the we’re doomed in 12 years scenario. That would be the third Nostradamus doomsday climate prediction.

                      Climate Change became a revenue generator for politicians, as well as a means to funnel treasure to corrupt governments in foreign countries. This is disappointing. I would wish for more funds to combat the devegation and deforestation of our planet, improve fire science, fight pollution, and protect our marine phytoplankton. We are not taking care of our planet’s lungs and liver. Plants sequester carbon, generate oxygen, bank water, marsh plants filter toxins from water, and we’re destroying them. There is some money for these projects, but Climate Change gets the lion’s share.

                      This is why science should be pure and without corrupting influence.

                      Dennis Prager is not a scientist, but he brings up the repeated mistaken prophecies by scientists.

                      https://youtu.be/RKkylZYuUDw

              3. That is the anonymous I refer to as the Brainless Wonder. Of course that doesn’t exclude Diane (L4D) from being the same person. Whether one or two doesn’t matter for both are cuckoo.

                1. No different style.

                  Diane is lying low for the time being and making only brief posts.

                  1. How many sock puppets is it now? There are a few people who seem to use a lot of them. It’s weird.

                    I don’t know. It can be hard to tell. The accusations about the paid poster was consistent, as was the Obamacare complaint, and there was another “honey” recently.

                    1. Karen S (and others) are obsessed with “sock puppets” that don’t exist. This is their little playground. Time squandered on such silly things.

                    2. Hell, I didn’t argue that this particular “anonymous” ( one of MANY anonymous people wrapped up in double anonynimity) was a sock puppet for L4D. I just stated that it was “highly probable” that she was engaged in her coven’s work in Alaska.
                      There have in fact been sock puppets on this site. If this particular “anonymous” thinks that is either impossible or unlikely, he/she should probably read up on internet comment forums.
                      And more specifically, pay attention to the presence of sock puppets here.

                  2. Absurb,
                    I’m still convinced that it’s “highly probable” that she is so busy doing her coven’s work elsewhwere ( e.g., Alaska), and that she has refocused her energy and time and efforts into other projects ( outside if her propaganda platform here).
                    So it’s “highly probable’ that she won’t have the time to alter her identity, and style, to sneak back on the threads of the JT columns.

                2. I think that PC Schulte had the right idea, Allan. All of these anonymous “Anonymous” comments posted here should be regarded as” Natacha anonymous” comments.
                  PSC said that if they were not willing to post under a distinct identity/ username, ” they were all Natacha” to him.

                    1. “Mean girls out gossiping late. Go to bed girl… ”

                      Tom apparently doesn’t have anything better to do. Like some of the others who ride JT’s coattails.

        1. She’ll get one of her long-suffering shirt-tails to drive her to a branch library or a Starbucks. She’s making the rounds. Natacha hasn’t been banned and drive-bys aren’t her style.

  10. Looking through the headlines on TheLibertyDaily I see this story comes back up:

    REPORT: It Will Cost $600,000 To Cover Up George Washington Mural That ‘Traumatized’ San Fran High School Students

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/48676/report-it-will-cost-600000-cover-george-washington-emily-zanotti

    After seeing all these types of stories here & elsewhere I’m thinking I’m open to a deal on immigration.

    We start screening for legal immigrants & as a trade off we pull the citizenship & deport these Commie/Fascist students & School Administrators/Teachers.

    I’d better we’d get better people & save money at the same time.

    1. Seriously. Our public school system is producing a generation of students too fragile to make it under real world conditions. They have an overexcited lymbic system, constantly in fight or flight mode, on a hairpin trigger. Their environmentally produced anxiety, anger management, control issues, and narcissism should be be addressed by mental health professionals, rather than the entire world tiptoeing around them, trying not to upset the unstable.

Leave a Reply