The Crime Of “Affecting Human Subconscious”: Russians Arrest Reporter For Referencing Orwell Under A Truly Orwellian Law

Even in the authoritarian era of Vladimir Putin, the arrest of Mikhail Romanov, a reporter for the Yakutsk Vecherniy, was notable.  Romanov has been accused of “controlling minds” by merely referencing George Orwell’s novel “1984.”

Romanov was prosecuted under a law that punishes media for publishing information “containing hidden insertions affecting the human subconscious.” It is a perfectly Orwellian crime based on references to Orwell.

Romanov has refused to testify on the basis that he has “limited eyesight and inability to read text,” but the police mocked him by saying that his disability “hasn’t kept him from working at a computer.”

Fines for crime range between 2,000 rubles ($31) and 50,000 rubles ($785).

440px-Rasputin_PA

Of course, this is not the first time a Romanov has been accused of dabbling in mind-controlling activities. Grigori Rasputin was believed to have entranced the Tsar and his Romanov family (particularly the Tsarina) with his Russian mystic teachings and alleged powers. He was viewed as a threat in his controlling of the Tsar and his family that  Prince Felix Yusupov and the Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich conspired to murder him to save the Russian Empire.

120 thoughts on “The Crime Of “Affecting Human Subconscious”: Russians Arrest Reporter For Referencing Orwell Under A Truly Orwellian Law”

  1. There is no free speech in Russia, especially not government criticism. It is important that we defend our own Constitutional freedoms from erosion in the name of the “common good”, as defined by whatever movement or political party. Ceding such rights to a more powerful government will always be abused.

    1. There’s a great deal of political pluralism in Russia. However, you’re not particularly secure in your immunities.

  2. Once upon a time in this country a mayor or a governor would have had enough police to keep two groups apart so there would be no actual physical contact between them. Today it seems like politicians want violent interactions mostly for photo ops not caring about injuries or public safety.

  3. And what the USA is doing to Assange?

    Freedom of speech is on the line and not mention?

    Russia isn’t free what is our excuse!

    Who cares about Russia when our own freedom is at stake?

    You think our Saudie pals don’t do worse?

  4. mespo, somewhere down-thread:

    “I used to enjoy skewering your silly fact-free pronouncements. Now I just correct the record for good of the order.”

    Have at it, bucko.

      1. Not everyone is blessed with your brilliance, mespo. I’d think you’d be putting it to better use.

      2. “The telling example is that I’ve done so but you’ve yet to find it.” -mespo

        Good for you! Heck of a guy.

          1. No. But that you believe you “can accomplish the task” is just silly — as are your recent responses.

  5. About the “security guard” from Ohio:

    Good thing we have the ability to do thorough and effective background checks and have invested god-knows-how-much-money in Fusion Centers, Infragard, DHS, and any number of other ineffective programs designed to “Keep America Safe.”

    Fields was a known menace, hyped up by Trump’s hateful language that continues to incite and divide and yet? Yeah: Charlottesville and the murder of Heather Heyer

    We’re “exceptional,” though.

  6. OT: Really enjoying Darren’s photographic talents in Ireland. “Here’s to a long life and a merry one. A quick death and an easy one. A pretty girl and an honest one. A cold pint and another one!”

    Here’s a thank you by no less than Mary Black:

  7. This is absurd x 9 says: July 14, 2019 at 6:47 PM

    It doesn’t matter how much chaff you throw up. He was a diagnosed schizophrenic whose vehicle was being mobbed.

    _____

    Who cares.

    1) He held down a job as a security guard in Ohio.

    2) As for the mobbing…

    From the article provided down-thread:

    “You’re here to decide why this event took place,” Hill said in his opening statement. “Was Mr. Fields in fear of serious bodily injury or death?”

    Prosecutors have pointed to memes of protesters being hit by cars Fields had posted to Instagram months before the rally, as well as a text he sent to his mother days prior, as evidence of his malicious intent. He wrote to her, “We’re not the one [sic] who need to be careful” and attached an image of Adolf Hitler. -Buzzfeed

    (The jury didn’t buy the mobbing claim, either.)

    1. Fields: “I got the weekend off, so I’ll be able to go to the rally”

      A coiuple of days later his mother replies:

      Mother replies: “Be careful”

      The next day he replies:

      “We’re not the one [sic] who need to be careful”

      Typical bravado answer given by young men all the time. I’m not stating the jury was wrong only that the statement made doesn’t prove that at the time the statement was made he meant to kill someone.

      These things probably fly above your radar.

      1. “Prosecutors have pointed to memes of protesters being hit by cars Fields had posted to Instagram months before the rally, as well as a text he sent to his mother days prior, as evidence of his malicious intent.”

        1. So? Prosecutors make a case but it doesn’t invalidate the truth, lots of the young provide bravado answers but that doesn’t mean the intent to kill someone. You should have understood that because if you did you wouldn’t have posted the above response.

          1. Sure, and that’s why he was found innocent and released.

            These right wing stooges are making excuses for an anti-semite murderer while crying about the supposed big problem of leftists and Democratic violent anti-semites. Can’t make this up..

            1. What ‘excuses’?

              You keep trying to identify his causes with our causes. Cuz you’re kind of a sh!t.

              1. Wikipedia, about Fields:

                Biography

                Fields threatened his mother with violence on multiple occasions. In November 2010, she locked herself in a bathroom, afraid of her son. Fields’s mother reported to the police that he had threatened to beat her, took her phone, struck her head, and put his hands over her mouth after she told him to stop playing video games.[10][35] In February 2011, Fields’s mother reported to the police at 5:20 a.m. that he had not come home; she said that he was wearing a T-shirt and shorts. Two hours later, she reported to the police that Fields “was home and acting lethargic”; he threatened to run away “if police came to the condo.”[10] In October 2011, Fields threatened her with a 12-inch (30 cm) knife; she called the police the next day to say that her son had been “very threatening” toward her and that she was scared and did not feel in control of the situation because she was in a wheelchair. In November 2011, Fields spat in his mother’s face and threatened her, and a woman requested that the police help Fields’s mother get him to a hospital for assessment; the log for the call reads, “Mom is scared he is going to become violent here.”[10][35] Fields was subsequently arrested and held in juvenile detention.[35]

                When he was a senior in high school, Fields applied to join the Army, and Derek Weimer, Fields’s history teacher and a former Ohio National Guard officer, helped him because Weimer believed that the military “would expose Fields to people of different races and backgrounds and help him dispel his white supremacist views.” Fields was turned down, which Weimer called a “big blow.”[9] Fields entered the Army on August 18, 2015 and was released from active duty “due to a failure to meet training standards” on December 11, the same year.[9][36] Army spokeswoman Lt. Col. Jennifer Johnson said that Fields “was never awarded a military occupational skill nor was he assigned to a unit outside of basic training”.[7] Weimer lost contact with Fields after he had graduated, and was “surprised” when he heard that Fields had managed to enlist in the Army.[9]

                Fields graduated from Randall K. Cooper High School in 2015.[10]

                Fields purchased his first car, the 2010 Dodge Challenger used in the attack, from a car dealership in Florence, Kentucky in June 2015.[7][26][36] The car was last registered in Ohio, and Fields updated its title in Maumee, Ohio in July 2015. The Cincinnati Enquirer reported that, according to local court records, he was cited for expired or unlawful license plates by the Maumee police in May 2017.[26]

                Ideology
                An ex-schoolmate of Fields said that Fields would draw swastikas and talk about “loving Hitler” as early as middle school.[10] Fields’ high school history teacher said that Fields was “deeply into Adolf Hitler and white supremacy”.[6][8] The teacher, Derek Weimer, reportedly taught Fields in three classes at Randall K. Cooper High School and “had regular interaction with him after classes and during free time”.[6][8] He told The Cincinnati Enquirer, “I’m sure if you would ask James he would say I was his favorite or one of his favorite teachers.” Weimer said that Fields was “a very bright kid but very misguided and disillusioned”.[8] Weimer said, “Once you talked to James for a while, you would start to see that sympathy towards Nazism, that idolization of Hitler, that belief in white supremacy. It would start to creep out.”[11] Weimer said that he had done his best to steer Fields away from those interests and had thought that he had succeeded in doing so.[6] He said that he felt like he failed as a teacher because of the attack, but that “this is definitely a teachable moment and something we need to be vigilant about, because this stuff is tearing up our country”.[25][6][8] Weimer said that another teacher had filed a report during Fields’ freshman year because he had written something that was “very much along the party lines of the neo-Nazi movement”.[8][9] He said that it “would have been standard procedure” to notify Fields’ mother and that the school administrators “were very good about keeping parents in the loop”.[8]

                According to Weimer, Fields “left school for a while” and became quieter about politics when he came back, until his senior year, when the candidates for the 2016 presidential election were declared. Weimer said that Fields supported Donald Trump because of what he perceived were Trump’s racial views. According to Weimer, Fields supported Trump’s Mexico border proposal. Weimer said that Fields “admired” the Confederate States of America for their military, though they “never spoke about slavery”.[9] Weimer said that “the constant presence of the Confederate flag was an ongoing issue” and that an African-American cheerleader was “very uncomfortable having to ride in a parade being carried by a pickup truck with a large Confederate flag sticker”.[8] Fields reportedly made students feel “unnerved” and “unsafe”, and one woman told The New York Times, “On many occasions there were times he would scream obscenities, whether it be about Hitler or racial slurs.”[7] Fields’ roommate on a class trip to Europe in 2015 told the Associated Press that Fields went on the trip only to visit Germany, and referred to it as the Fatherland. He couldn’t handle being in a room with Fields after Fields spoke about French people “being lower than us and inferior to us”.[40] Fields voted in the March 15, 2016 Ohio Republican primary.[7]

                A lot of boys get interested in the Germans and Nazis because they’re interested in World War II. But James took it to another level. He researched everything and had an intellectual argument for all his points, which is something you just don’t see that often.

                — Derek Weimer, The Cincinnati Enquirer[8]

                1. Why was the person pulling a parade float with a black cheerleader on it, the guy whom everyone knew to be racist, frightening, and mentally unstable? Did he ever get his psych check? Did his mother ever get a restraining order? What kind of video games did she allow her mentally unstable son to play as a child? How did he pass the testing to get into the Army, which is supposed to weed out the mentally unstable? Police responded 9 times for violence in the home.

                  What is the procedure for an increasingly violent young person who has a physically disabled parent? I can’t find out if she was a single mother, or if there was a father in the picture. He is not mentioned. Did she support his Neo Nazism, or not, but was overwhelmed?

                  The teacher mentioned that Fields was diagnosed and medicated for schizophrenia, anxiety, bipolar, ADHD, basically an alphabet soup of mental health disorders. Clearly, this individual was not stable, and yet he managed to enter the Army for almost a year, and later work as a security guard.

                  For this to really be a teachable moment, the public has to learn about the red flags that were missed, and better ways to respond to them, if they exist.

                  There are many unstable mentally ill people among the homeless population. Sometimes they hurt themselves or others. Sometimes their illness renders them incapable of making rational decisions about accepting shelter, so they self medicate with street drugs and starve in the hedgerows.

                  Our mental health system needs a lot of work.

              2. TIA and Allan’s persistent sympathy and defense are identifying them selves with the Charlottesville neo-Nazi murderer. They don;t need any help

                1. Do you like to make up stories? I’ll repeat what I previously wrote:

                  “Anon, you are an idiot. I didn’t make any claims about innocence or guilt. I only commented on a common type of statement made by young people. You are an illiterate.

            2. “Sure, and that’s why he was found innocent and released.

              Anon, you are an idiot. I didn’t make any claims about innocence or guilt. I only commented on a common type of statement made by young people. You are an illiterate.

            3. you may not have noticed but when a “right wing extremist” intends to make a political killing, they rarely plead self defense after the fact.

              the effect of unjust or excessive punishments is usually not to eradicate crime, but actually to increase the violence of criminal incidents. this is a well known dynamic.

              the whole playbook is called “asymmetrical warfare”

              i hear the mayors of big cities out there calling for insurrection and defiance against the United States, and i wonder how long before this all goes very hot

  8. The Crime Of “Affecting Human Subconscious”

    – Professor Turley
    _______________

    “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”

    – William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987
    ________________________________

    For committing this very crime in the form of the hoax of “Russian collusion” by Comey, Rosenstein, Mueller, Schiff, Schumer et al., perjurious charges of brutalization and molestation of women against Justice Kavanaugh by the national fraud, Christine Ballsey Ford and her Feminazi White Shirts, the creation and promulgation of the false, contrived Trump-Russia “dossier” by Hillary Clinton et al., irrational opposition to imperative federal law enforcement against the incursion of fictitious “asylum-seeking,” parasitic, foreign, criminal, illegal alien, invader hyphenates by the treasonous, anti-American liberal, hysterical and incoherent border crisis “deniers,” Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, et al., liberal/socialist/progressive/communist/democrats should be summarily thrown in prison for subversion, insurrection and treason or provided a merciful offer for exile-in-perpetuity back to the s—hole countries they came from.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    If the illegitimate seizure of all power, the vitiation and neutralization of the legislative and judicial branches, the prosecution of illegal war against a sovereign foreign country without Congregational declaration, barbarous compulsory conscription of young men, the suspension of Habeas Corpus and the brutal suppression of all political opposition was good enough for Abraham “Crazy Abe” Lincoln to “Save the Union,” it’s good enough for President Donald J. Trump in order to “Save the Republic” during this period of hysteria and incoherence in which the anarchist, globalist, anti-American, hyphenate inmates have taken over the asylum.

  9. Romanov has been accused of “controlling minds” by merely referencing George Orwell’s novel “1984.”

    Looks exactly like someone from DNC like Schumer, Pelsosi, Ocasio-Castro, or any one of a number of them would have ‘subjectively’ and without ‘facts in evidence have written. When you think about it. Something any one of their candid dates would have said. ,

  10. It was a guess, but seemed logical

    I present you the ballistic missile submarine Red October & request asylum

    1. Neither are particularly Orwellian.

      There is no legal procedure depicted in 1984, though the character Parsons alludes to one. Reminds you more of the Afrikaner Justice Ministry officialdom in Alan Paton’s Ah, But Your Land is Beautiful, who tells his aunt in a letter that they’ve retained academic experts who can detect Communism in facially ordinary political writings and that their expert witnesses will help them nail the top echelon of the African National Congress and allied organizations at trial.

      The antifa are latter-day brownshirts. Another analogy would be (white) mobs in the Reconstruction and post-Reconstruction South, with the proviso that it’s a reasonable inference that in the South under the ancien regime, the mobs were commonly countenanced by local police, while in places like Portland today one might guess the police stand down only because the politicians support the sorosphere rent-a-mob.

      1. Yes, and of course, as in the segregationist south, conservatives in Oregon are unable to eat in restaurants, stay in hotels, get good jobs, vote, and have their leaders killed and their homes bombed, and their sons lynched if they flirt with antifa daughters.

        Yeah, it’s just kike that, except the killers are actually from the right.

        1. I wonder why the brave, glorious antifa do not attack Bikers for Trump or construction workers for Trump? Why don’t these wonderous warriors attack Trump supporters in places such as Texas or Kentucky?

          No, a masked mob takes on an individual wearing a MAGA hat or an older person in places like Portland or Charlottesville.

          I’m waiting for some random antifa attack against an individual lawfully carrying a firearm. That will not end well for the glorious “antifa”

          I will relish such an ending. Let them all go to h**l.

          antonio

        2. What a stupid comment.

          Antifa is a mob robed and masked just like the old time KKK. That is what you support in your ignornace, pretend or otherwise.

            1. Antonio, I think all decent people could add to those two groups baby killers and those that are unwilling to call the killing of term or near term babies what it is.

            2. If anyone came to the conclusion that I supported the antifa based on the above piece…

              I hate them as much as anyone here.

              Do I express myself that badly?

              antonio

              1. Clear to me, but your selective anger, given contemporary right wing violence, distracts from your position. That’s common here of course, from all the faux peace lovers like Karen, Allen, TIA, etc.

                  1. right now the mayors of big cities are openly engaged in unlawful conspiracy to harboring illegal aliens. i recommend POTUS Trump command the FBI to round up all these mayors and throw them in prison. chips fall where they may.

                    “Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324(a) defines several distinct offenses related to aliens. Subsection 1324(a)(1)(i)-(v) prohibits alien smuggling, domestic transportation of unauthorized aliens, concealing or harboring unauthorized aliens, encouraging or inducing unauthorized aliens to enter the United States, and engaging in a conspiracy or aiding and abetting any of the preceding acts. Subsection 1324(a)(2) prohibits bringing or attempting to bring unauthorized aliens to the United States in any manner whatsoever, even at a designated port of entry. Subsection 1324(a)(3).”

                    If that means a period of chaos then let the tree of liberty be watered anew

              2. No, Antonio, you were fairly clear. But Alan is so vigilant against ‘communists’ that he mistook you for a communist simply because he doesn’t see your name enough. In other words, Alan ‘erred on the side of caution’ and attacked you for lack of familiarity.

                1. Peter, I am vigilant against fascists and I have known from the start that Anonio is not a fascist or a communist if you wish to separate the two.

                  Here the baby killer is intentionally trying to involve me in an attack on Antonio. We all know differently and we all know this is the way you play. You intentionally lie and deceive. That is the reason for your nickname, Peter, Shill, that still holds no matter how many times you change you name.

                1. “Yes you express yourself poorly but lack of intelligence can be overcome with time and effort.”

                  YNOT, time and effort hasn’t helped you at all.

                  Antonio is spot on.

      2. “There is no legal procedure depicted in 1984, though the character Parsons alludes to one.”

        DSS, I don’t have the slightest idea what your point is with regard to my statement. Russian PC, Anitfa PC etc. are nothing more than the misuse of power by government or any type of group.

        1. are nothing more than the misuse of power by government or any type of group.

          That’s a taxon so broad that any analogies you draw aren’t going to be illustrative at all.

          1. “That’s a taxon so broad that any analogies you draw aren’t going to be illustrative at all.”

            That would be true but I specified Russian and Antifa so the illustrative problem you are tallking about doesn’t exist.

  11. Obama, Hillary, NYT, MSNBC, CNN, WahPutz, The Atlantic, Huffpoo,….all attack every day Americans as “deplorables” and “lesser than” on a daily basis for blood sport. They defend the religion of Muslims but loathe Christians, and Jews too apparently in the US House

    America has her own problems

      1. No, Tabby, Professor Turley is on the wrong thread. Commenters like Estovir are common to sites perceived as Trump-friendly.

        What’s more, Estovir, an anti-abortion dead-ender fond of posting religious-themed comments, presumes to chide Obama for making a dead-on observation. American conservatives are indeed primarily motivated by guns and religion. But in Estovir’s mind, Obama is out-of-line for verbalizing the obvious.

        1. What’s more, Estovir, an anti-abortion dead-ender

          Of course he’s anti-abortion. That’s the only defensible position.

          1. “What’s more, Estovir, an anti-abortion dead-ender”

            DSS Peter not only likes Antifa nearly killing people but he also likes adults with knives attacking a new or nearly new born child until the child is dead. To date nothing Peter has said would lead one to think differently about Peter.

            1. Alan, post an article, from a credible mainstream source, listing all the people ‘nearly killed’ by antifa.

              1. I’d be more interested in “actually killed by antifa” so we can compare it to right wing terrorism which is noted by the FBI as the most lethal form in America over the last several years. Pretty sure the number is zero.

              2. Peter, your definition of a credible source is only what you like and only what you choose to believe. You don’t deal with detailed reports or raw statistics.

                Ngo was nearly killed. He was beaten bad enough to have a brain hemmorhage which is lifethreatening. Check all your favorite sources and come back to me.

                1. Alan, you never have sources.

                  And who is ‘Ngo’..?? We’re supposed to know that name on sight? You can’t just identify him in your reference? Like “Eagle Scout Hubert Ngo”. Or, “Reporter James Ngo”. Or “Officer “Kim Ngo”.

                  It seems consumers of rightwing media always presume everyone knows who they’re talking about outside the rightwing bubble.

                  1. “Alan, you never have sources.”

                    Peter, that is a lie. I certainly have sources and I chose when I wish to publish the source. When I don’t they can easily be found. Frequently there is a name attached and the writing is from that name. Frequently what you publish is from an editorial pretending to be a news article. That news article frequently doesn’t post sources and when they do the most common name is “annonymous”

                    You are very dishonest

                  2. “And who is ‘Ngo’..??”

                    You reveal your ignorance. People that follow the news, not just talking points know who Ngo is. My assumption is that your newsmedia doesn’t want to talk about the things that make what they promote direputable.

                    Anyway, I posted his name multiple times on the blog including posting videos. Others did as well and his name was posted on multiple threads and likely will be posted again.

                    Go to The video with Tucker Carlson for a complete explanation by Ngo himself. You are very ignorant.

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=video+of+gno+being+beaten+up&t=osx&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=mtBPxDfl82I

                  3. “It seems consumers of rightwing media always presume everyone knows who they’re talking about outside the rightwing bubble.”

                    No Peter. Those on the right see news from both sides but those like you only see filtered news. This type of news about Antifa beating up people (not infrequent) seems to be left out of your news or relegated to a small column in the middle of nowhere.

                    1. ““It’s not a surprise a conservative writer was bloodied in a street brawl in Portland ”

                      That is absolutely correct. Left wing mobs have done that all over the country. This was no exception.You guys don’t think it is important for others to have their freedom of speech and that is why they had to escort Milo out of a University building where fires were started and the police had to put him in a bulletproof vest. You guys are violent. When I go to peaceful lectures by people on the right even though those people do not advocate any violence what so ever there are armed guards paid for by the speakers.

                      Many Jewish groups also have to pay for armed guards at public events. You guys aren’t much different than Nazi’s.

                    2. “What took place is a bit more complicated than “Allan” would have one believe.”

                      What did I say that was wrong? I gave a source so that Peter could hear about the attack from the victim himself and then look up details. He could choose your leftwing media that wishes to minimize the attack but the basic facts are that:

                      Andy did not engage in physical force.
                      He was beaten by masked Antifa members
                      The cops did nothing.
                      Andy Ngo had a life threatening injury and was hospitalized.

                      Andy Ngo could have been killed. Anonymous can minimize the violence all she wishes but the facts of the attack are very clear. Unfortunately, anonymous believes that since Andy Ngo is a conservative there is nothing wrong with a bunch of people nearly killing him. That is anonymous’s mindset which is not that much different than what we saw in Nazi Germany.

          2. I’m prolife but I am not going to waste my energy on it considering that’s not a democratically decided question in the first place, just a federal article III lifetime tenure Diktat.

            I also console myself that it’s mostly Democrats availing themselves of this particular freedom. Silver lining that. Let them have at it!

            I know, i’m not a good person. But i feel the way I feel.

        2. “American conservatives are indeed primarily motivated by guns and religion.”

          Peter, you need to get out more because you don’t know what a conservative is. The fact is that when we see people like Ngo beaten up is is due to a KKK type organization (southern democrat violent group) known as Antifa that wear black instead of white but their faces are covered up just like the KKK. When we see killing in city streets we are not seeing conservatives doing the killingt citizens of cities that have voted Democrat (Progressive) for years.A conservative might be killed wearing a MAGA hat but nothing is likely to happen if an Obama hat is worn.

            1. Anon, help me out. Is antifa a national organization with chapters in every city? Or is it just a term rightwing media applies to left-leaning rowdies?

                  1. here is a little interesting intellectual history on that concept

                    “The concept of leaderless resistance was developed by Col. Ulius Louis Amoss, a former U.S. intelligence officer, in the early 1960s. An anti-communist, Amoss saw leaderless resistance as a way to prevent the penetration and destruction of CIA-supported resistance cells in Eastern European countries under Soviet control.[4]

                    The concept was revived and popularized in an essay published by the anti-government Ku Klux Klan member Louis Beam in 1983 and again in 1992.”

                    ANTIFA don’t call it that but that’s the idea

                  2. The collective even highlights a short video of Milo but leaves out the violence that can be seen below.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS_RKwCYcl8

                    It is amazing how little these two know, Anon and Peter.

                    In person Milo is very personable. He is a decent chap and funny. His book is quite funny and on the stage he is outrageously funny. He offends the politically correct crowd on the left because he makes them look at a mirror of themselves. Anon and Peter keep attacking the mirror.

                1. here’s a quote from the organizer’s manual

                  “VISIBILITY
                  Both the authorities and fascists will be interested in your group’s membership, so you should consider the question of public visibility carefully before you start. We strongly recommend against antifa groups being organized using the open, public model of most contemporary activism because of the risk of infiltration. If an emergency situation—such as responding to fascist public event—calls for public meetings and a traditional mass organizing activist model, this should be kept separate from the long-term group structure.

                  In fact, we recommend that you stay anonymous both while forming and until your first action. Anonymity is your best defense, and you should keep it intact as long as you can. Develop your group, get on the same page, and decide what you want to focus on. Also, note that once groups are formed, it’s very difficult to change the type of person who is in the group. Whether this is about gender, age, race, or counterculture—it will be hard to alter later on.

                  Use a “closed collective” model: this is a membership-based policy with no open meetings. Don’t allow new people to walk in off the street. Instead, develop a process for researching and vetting people who want to be involved.

                  One extreme option is to function as a group but not give yourself a name, and not tell fellow activists what you are doing. Once you have a name, fascists will try to figure out “who is in the group.” Not having a public face makes your actions even more anonymous. If people are being targeted, for example after a conflict with fascists, a publicly known group will draw attention first. If there is no public presence, or no formalized organization with a name, this will complicate the process of identification and retaliation.

                  Consider using a cell model whenever possible, in which one member meets with others when required. For example, you might need a public face to talk to other groups, club owners to convince them to cancel Nazi bands, to meet people to receive information they don’t want to share online, orto table at events. To limit exposure, make sure one person is designated as the semi-public face, even if they never admit they are a group member. This limits how many people can be exposed.”

                  excuse my caps here guys but i wanted to use a diff font and can’t make it happen so i’ll use caps…..

                  IN SHORT THEY WOULD BE A CRIMINAL GANG EXCEPT THEIR OBJECTIVES FOR ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES ARE POLITICAL. HENCE THEY ARE TERRORISTS.

                  THE ONLY TERRORISTS LOCKED UP NOW AT THE FLORENCE ADX ARE MUSLIMS AND VARIOUS “RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS”

                  THE ONLY EXCEPTION WOULD BE TED KAZINSKI UNABOMBER

                  ACCORDINGLY I OFTEN WONDER, WHY THE LEFT WING TERRORISTS AREN’T PROSECUTED? ONE COULD DRAW SOME TROUBLING CONCLUSIONS FROM THAT!

              1. The best description of the leaders would be Marxist and anti-capitalist though many people that join their violent behavior do so for other reasons mostly anti-capitalist and anarchistic. They are decentralized but funding has been tied into the Alliance for Global Justice (AfGJ) that supported the Marxist Sandinista movement.

                To get a leftist viewpoint of what Antifa is see: Unmasking the leftist Antifa movement

                https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking-antifa-anti-fascists-hard-left/index.html

                For a bit more understanding of the movement from the other side an undercover video exists at: https://www.truthrevolt.org/news/steven-crowder-goes-undercover-exposes-violence-weapons-inside-antifa

                1. The antifa have an assortment of ragtag ideological excuses. But I dispute that they are fundamentally Marxists. They are not. They are fundamentally anarchists.

                  If you read the history of Bakunin and the anarchist rivalry with Marx and the communists in the 19th century, it’s pretty clear

                  the ANTIFA rank and file are a bunch of crazy nutjobs and radical lumpenprole extremists. Mostly gender fluid, tatted up scumbags with dyed hair and the look of a chronic heroin addict.

                  I suspect however that they are organized by more educated troublemakers who know exactly what they are doing and to be honest in some cases I would suspect a considerable amount of “grassers, snitches, informants, and provacateurs” if not outright government agents of one degree of closeness or another, acting undercover.

                  Which is often the case with certain criminal gangs that appear to be acting with impunity: they are riddled with informants acting with covert and yet very real forms of legal immunity in the first place.

                  Consider Sammy the Bull Gravano. Basically a serial murderer with more than 20 or 30 victims, the government let him out after a very short sentence, in exchange for testifying against Gotti.

                  Consider Whitey Bulger. There are many other troubling examples to make my point.

                  1. “The antifa have an assortment of ragtag ideological excuses. But I dispute that they are fundamentally Marxists. They are not. They are fundamentally anarchists.”

                    Kurtz, it is my understanding that those that have been most involved in the organizations founding and expansion were Marxists. Marxists use anarchy as a way to cause a government to tumble so that they can pick up the pieces. That there are undisputably anarchists involved goes without saying. Lots of people are involved even those that don’t even think about politics but like violence.

                    Occupy Wall Street was similar. I remember that the leaders were traced back to a nearby hotel and their past actions represented those of Marxist type revolutionaries. I actually went to the park and spoke to those on the ground living there in tents. I didn’t talk to those that seemed violent or urinated and defacated on police cars. There were the looney hateful leftists that were mostly empty heads but I found a couple of young people that were intelligent. Their rhetoric was that of a Classical Liberal mindset unmatured so that they had difficulty distinguishing anarchy from their own train of thought. They wanted to be somewhere where the action was.

                    These groups are not concerned with what one believes in. They are more concerned with the numbers and the ability to shut up groups they don’t like. That means for the next rally some of those at the earlier one might be the subject of attack.

                    I once described the 3 levels of antifa members at an antifa “rally for violence” so I won’t bother explaining that again.

                    1. pretty much right allan, i agree

                      in purely theoretical terms, marxism viewed capitalism as a form of progress over feudalism, and a necessary stage of social development, en route to communism. but that’s just book theory.

                      in practice you are right that communist revolutions in practice used asymmetrical warfare and terroristic means to accomplish their victories. that is historical fact. these crazies may hearken back to those times with glee, which would be the only reason for them to call themselves marxists, because they would have been quickly liquidated in phase 2 of any revolution, the consolidation phase where the “useless idiots” are swept out of any positions of control and liquidated or detained by the new set of authorities.

                      they are like the insane jacobin levellers who were eliminated by napoleon. just as turley is suggesting when he invokes the insanity of the French revolution in the other post

                      so, this is why i say they really aren’t marxists, they’re just anarchist antisocial crazies, because they are human scum that need to be cleaned up and contained like so much garbage, lest they are allowed to seriously impede the daily functioning of normal human society

                    2. “pretty much right allan, i agree”

                      I posted a short comment in reply but I saw a strange response by Word Press. Whether it pops up or not is unknown. This type of discussion is hard to do in this type of venue especially since there are so many different definitions that need to be agreed on.

                      Suffice it to say this blog divides along the lines of big government with government control vs smaller government where the individual is considered more important. Those we have underlying disagreements with don’t have the intellectual stamina or ability to make their case so they side with violence and/or stupidity.

              2. Antifa was started by the Socialsts principally by Leon Trotsky as their version of the Brown Shirts of Hitler. Featured and that remains true to this day. Direct Action Violence. It has never been connected with the Nazi or National Socialism but copied their methods as Internatinal Socialists.

                The differences along with their third arm progressive socialism which features direct political action in are the three major types of socialism. An early supporter of Stalin he escaped to Mexico and was killed their by Felix Dzerzhinsky. secret police. this during the Great Socialist Wars of the 20th century

                Which involved the USA principally from 1909 with Woodrow Wilson who took over the oorigina slave parties of Northern and Southern Democrats by featuring progressive liberal socialism.

                Thus Antifa which says it opposes fascists dictator governments is really the same as it was since the days of Trotsky and works to defend the Socialist Progress version of one party one leader government

                1. “Antifa was started by the Socialsts principally by Leon Trotsky ”

                  Hmm. I’m impressed with your knowledge that Trotsky can be tied together with the earlier Antifa movement.

                  1. it’s not unfair to align them with Trotsky rather than Stalin. However, their genesis is really with Mikhail Bakunin. They are not really communists. they lack the discipline for that. they are basically anarchists. enemies of all ordered civilization, they are as bad as pirates and terrorists.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin

                    1. Antifa is continuously evolving so it is difficult to pin down the essential ideology. The last century is certainly different than this century so I wouldn’t use the exact philosoophy of that time to fully explain the philosophy of today.

                    2. yes they are mostly just a bunch of freaks who want to break and steal stuff and get high with new wacky friends. the ideology is window dressing.

            2. @anon1

              I suggest you read the independent report done by “Hunton and Williams” law firm. You should be able to download such but I doubt you will, it doesn’t fit the template.

              Charlottesville occurred because the authorities did not keep the 2 groups apart. In fact the police chief lost his job due to his direliction of duty. The antifa, redneck revolt and other groups came armed and looking for trouble. The great majority of violence was caused by antifa and their supporters. James Fields had the misfortune of getting lost and driving down the wrong street and his car attacked beforehand, and he panicked. His GPS was set for a return trip home. He also had the misfortune of being poor and not having the funds for a good, vigorous legal defense team. His appointed lawyers practically threw the case. I’m sorry for Heather Heyer and all of this but the blame lies at the feet of the city officials and leftists looking for trouble.

              Opposing the removal of Confederate Monuments does not make one a Nazi. Seems the left keeps moving the goalposts on such terms.

              antonio

              1. “Ohio Man Pleads Guilty to 29 Federal Hate Crimes for August 2017 Car Attack at Rally in Charlottesville”

                “James Alex Fields Jr. Pleaded Guilty to Killing Heather Heyer and Injuring Dozens of Others”

                https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ohio-man-pleads-guilty-29-federal-hate-crimes-august-2017-car-attack-rally-charlottesville

                Excerpt:

                James Alex Fields, Jr., 21, the Ohio man who drove his car into a diverse crowd of counter-protestors on Aug. 12, 2017, killing one woman and injuring dozens, pleaded guilty today in U.S. District Court to 29 counts of violating the federal Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, 18 U.S.C. § 249. The charges included one count of a hate crime act that resulted in the death of Heather Heyer, and 28 counts of hate crime acts that caused bodily injury and involved an attempt to kill other people within the crowd. Each of the 29 counts carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment and a fine of up to $250,000. Attorney General William P. Barr, FBI Director Christopher Wray, United States Attorney Thomas T. Cullen, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division Eric Dreiband, and Special Agent in Charge David Archey of the FBI’s Richmond Division made the announcement.

                “In the aftermath of the mass murder in New Zealand earlier this month, we are reminded that a diverse and pluralistic community such as ours can have zero tolerance for violence on the basis of race, religion, or association with people of other races and religions,” Attorney General William P. Barr said. “Prosecuting hate crimes is a priority for me as Attorney General. The defendant in this case has pled guilty to 29 hate crimes which he committed by driving his car into a crowd of protesters. These hate crimes are also acts of domestic terrorism. I want to thank the FBI for leading this investigation along with our partners with the Charlottesville Police Department and the Virginia State Police. I also want to thank Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Eric Dreiband and our Civil Rights Division and U.S. Attorney Cullen and his office for their hard work in reaching today’s guilty plea, which brings us one step closer to bringing the defendant to justice. We will continue to vigorously prosecute violent crimes of hate and we will not allow violence to supplant our pluralism.”

                “The violence in Charlottesville was an act of hate, and everyone across the country felt the impact,” said FBI Director Christopher Wray. “This guilty plea underscores that we won’t stand for hate and violence in our communities. Together with our law enforcement and community partners, we’ll continue to aggressively investigate hate crimes, domestic terrorism and civil rights violations.”

                “The defendant’s hate-inspired act of domestic terrorism not only devastated Heather Heyer’s wonderful family and the 28 peaceful protestors who were injured at the intersection of Fourth and Water Streets, but it also left an indelible mark on the City of Charlottesville, our state, and our country,” U.S. Attorney Cullen stated today. “Although the defendant’s guilty plea cannot undo the pain, suffering, and loss that he caused, it is my hope that it will enable these victims and our community to continue the healing process.”

                According to a statement of facts agreed to and signed by Fields, and entered into the court record at his guilty plea hearing, Fields admitted that he drove into the crowd of counter-protestors because of the actual and perceived race, color, national origin, and religion of its members. He further admitted that his actions killed Heather Heyer, and that he intended to kill the other victims he struck and injured with his car.

                With regard to the details of the attack, Fields also admitted that, prior to Aug. 12, 2017, he used social media accounts to express and promote white supremacist views on his social media accounts; to express support of the social and racial policies of Adolf Hitler and Nazi-era Germany, including the Holocaust; and to espouse violence against African Americans, Jewish people, and members of other racial, ethnic, and religious groups he perceived to be non-white. Fields also expressed these views directly in interactions with individuals known to him.

                1. He is mentally ill. You and your Antifa buddies are driven by intolerance, hatred and lack of diversity. Insert AOC comment about Pelosi being a racist here. Seems to work when your ilk brandish the “hate” card

                2. Doesn’t matter how much chaff you throw up. He’s a diagnosed schizophrenic whose vehicle was being mobbed.

                  1. It suits TIA’s purposes to try to simplify matters, but there is more to the story that TIA chooses to ignore.

                    The DOJ posting continues…

                    Fields further admitted that, on Aug. 12, 2017, he attended the “Unite the Right” rally in Emancipation Park in Charlottesville, Virginia. That morning, multiple groups and individuals espousing white-supremacist ideology also attended the rally. These rally participants, including Fields, engaged in chants promoting or expressing white supremacist and other racist and anti-Semitic views.

                    Shortly before the scheduled start of the Unite the Right rally, law enforcement declared an “unlawful assembly” and required rally participants, including Fields, to disperse. Fields later returned to his vehicle and began to drive on the streets of Charlottesville, Virginia.

                    Fields drove his car onto Fourth Street, a narrow, downhill, one-way street in downtown Charlottesville. At or around that same time, a racially and ethnically diverse crowd had gathered at the bottom of the hill, at the intersection of Fourth and Water Streets. Many of the individuals in the crowd were celebrating as they were chanting and carrying signs promoting equality and protesting against racial and other forms of discrimination. Fields slowly proceeded in his vehicle down Fourth Street toward the crowd. He then stopped and observed the crowd while idling in his vehicle. With no vehicle behind him, Fields then slowly reversed his vehicle toward the top of the hill.

                    At or around that same time, the members of the crowd began to walk up the hill, populating the streets and sidewalks between the buildings on Fourth Street. Having reversed his car to a point at or near the top of the hill and the intersection of Fourth and Market Streets, Fields stopped again. Fields admitted that he then rapidly accelerated forward down Fourth Street in his vehicle, running through a stop sign and across a raised pedestrian mall, and drove directly into the crowd. Fields’s vehicle stopped only when it struck another stopped vehicle near the intersection of Fourth and Water Streets. Fields then rapidly reversed his car and fled the scene. As Fields drove into and through the crowd, Fields struck numerous individuals, killing Heather Heyer and injuring 28 people nearby.

                    The investigation of the case was led by the FBI and supported by the Charlottesville Police Department and Virginia State Police. United States Attorney Thomas T. Cullen, Assistant United States Attorney Christopher Kavanaugh, and Trial Attorney Risa Berkower with the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice are prosecuting the case for the United States.

                    For more information about DOJ’s work to combat and prevent hate crimes, visit http://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes: a one-stop portal with links to DOJ hate crimes resources for law enforcement, media, researchers, victims, advocacy groups, and other organizations and individuals.

                    The above excerpt is from:

                    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ohio-man-pleads-guilty-29-federal-hate-crimes-august-2017-car-attack-rally-charlottesville

                    1. It doesn’t matter how much chaff you throw up. He was a diagnosed schizophrenic whose vehicle was being mobbed.

                  2. Yeah, and Manson was misunderstood too.

                    Poor Fields was going under the speed limit when he plowed through that crowd of jay-walkers.

                    1. Doesn’t matter what red herrings you use, he was a diagnosed schizophrenic whose vehicle was being mobbed.

                      Manson induced five of his followers to butcher six people with knives. Fields, driving about 25 mph, ran into the back of one vehicle which hit another in front of it. His vehicle was then set upon by antifa who were armed and smashed his windows as he was trying to back out. It’s not at all clear from the video where Heather Heyer was when she was hit. When Fields found out he’d killed someone, he was hyperventilating and in tears. Yeah, sounds exactly like Helter Skelter.

                    2. TIA, full of compassion for this wing-nut, says:

                      “When Fields found out he’d killed someone, he was hyperventilating and in tears.”

                      Croc tears, I suspect. He’d been caught, had a full understanding of what he’d done…, and what the consequences would be. He was crying for himself, in all likelihood.

                  3. This is absurd x 9 says: July 14, 2019 at 4:07 PM

                    Doesn’t matter how much chaff you throw up. He’s a diagnosed schizophrenic whose vehicle was being mobbed.

                    ___

                    And yet:

                    “Until his arrest in Charlottesville, Fields worked for about two years as a security guard in Ohio; he earned US$10.50 per hour and his income was $650 every two weeks.” (Wikipedia)

                    So he was able to hold down a job — and one as a security guard no less.

                    1. Fields also had a long history of anti-semitic and neo-Nazi behabior. No doubt this is exactly what those crusaders Karen and Estovir meant when they denounced the Left and Democrats.

                    2. As for being “mobbed” — something that TIA would like you to believe:

                      https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/blakemontgomery/neo-nazi-who-allegedly-killed-heather-heyer-in

                      Excerpt:

                      “You’re here to decide why this event took place,” Hill said in his opening statement. “Was Mr. Fields in fear of serious bodily injury or death?”

                      Prosecutors have pointed to memes of protesters being hit by cars Fields had posted to Instagram months before the rally, as well as a text he sent to his mother days prior, as evidence of his malicious intent. He wrote to her, “We’re not the one [sic] who need to be careful” and attached an image of Adolf Hitler.

                      ____

                      The jury didn’t buy the mobbing claim, either.

                    3. mespo727272 says: July 14, 2019 at 6:54 PM

                      A:

                      Crazy people do — and write — crazy things. Shocking.

                      _____

                      Yeah. Like work as security guards for a couple of years.

                    4. About the “security guard” from Ohio:

                      Good thing we have the ability to do thorough and effective background checks and have invested god-knows-how-much-money in Fusion Centers, Infragard, DHS, and any number of other ineffective programs designed to “Keep America Safe.”

                      Fields was a known menace, hyped up by Trump’s hateful language that continues to incite and divide and yet? Yeah: Charlottesville and the murder of Heather Heyer

                    5. “Fields was a known menace”

                      I never saw it written that he was thought to be a “menace” before all this happened.

                      The left is inciting violence and that can be seen all over the country. The Nazi’s are small and basically fascists and brothers of the leftists.

                      Jonah Goldberg says it quite well in his book Liberal Fascism “[F]ascism, properly understood, is not a phenomenon of the right at all Instead, it is, and always has been, a phenomenon of the left. This fact … is obscured in our time by the equally mistaken belief that fascism and communism are opposites. In reality, they are closely related, historical competitors for the same constituents, seeking to dominate and control the same social space. … [I]n terms of their theory and practice, the differences are minimal.”

    1. Obama in the clip, without calling out Christians as Estovir wrongly implies, criticizes the reasoning of other Christians, much as Estovir does. So what? Is Estovir anti-Christian?

      1. “Obama in the clip, without calling out Christians”

        The quote starts out “You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania…” When Obama referenced religion “they cling to guns or religion “ according to Anon Obama must have been speaking about a large Buddhist population.

        1. i had no problem with what Obama said in that clip. he’s right. what’s the problem with it? we peasants in flyover do cling to guns and God and tribal ethnic affiliation because we are screwed by government. Heck yes; Obama got that right. he knows it. AND THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT!

          1. Kurtz, Obama was playing tribal and targeting certain groups of individuals. He was setting people up to be hated or as Hillary would say deplorables.

            1. maybe so; but it didnt quite work out for them.

              and it won’t work out for them now.

              these forces are group forming consciousness and they are titanic forces of nature that work for us just as much as them

    2. Now you grasp why Jay and Washington precluded “foreign allegiances” in the commander-in-chief by raising the requirement for president to “natural born citizen” from “citizen.” Obama is a Muslim, anti-American, anti-Colonialist, collectivist, globalist Muslim who hates America and is committed to degrading the wealth, status, influence and power of America and Americans.

      Obama will NEVER be eligible to be U.S. president.

      Obama’s parents were foreign citizens at the time of her birth.

      – A “citizen” could only have been President at the time of the adoption of the Constitution – not after.

      – The U.S. Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5, requires the President to be a “natural born citizen,” which, by definition in the Law of Nations, requires “parents who are citizens” at the time of birth of the candidate and that he be “…born of a father who is a citizen;…”

      – Ben Franklin thanked Charles Dumas for copies of the Law of Nations which “…has been continually in the hands of the members of our Congress, now sitting,…”

      – The Jay/Washington letter of July, 1787, raised the presidential requirement from citizen to “natural born citizen” to place a “strong check” against foreign allegiances by the commander-in-chief.

      – Every American President before Obama had two parents who were American citizens.

      – The Constitution is not a dictionary and does not define words like “natural born citizen” as a dictionary, while the Law of Nations,1758, did.

      ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Law of Nations, Vattel, 1758

      Book 1, Ch. 19

      § 212. Citizens and natives.

      “The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.”

      ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Ben Franklin letter December 9, 1775, thanking Charles Dumas for 3 copies of the Law of Nations:

      “…I am much obliged by the kind present you have made us of your edition of Vattel. It came to us in good season, when the circumstances of a rising state make it necessary frequently to consult the law of nations. Accordingly that copy, which I kept, (after depositing one in our own public library here, and sending the other to the College of Massachusetts Bay, as you directed,) has been continually in the hands of the members of our Congress, now sitting, who are much pleased with your notes and preface, and have entertained a high and just esteem for their author…”

      ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

      To George Washington from John Jay, 25 July 1787

      From John Jay

      New York 25 July 1787

      Dear Sir

      I was this morning honored with your Excellency’s Favor of the 22d

      Inst: & immediately delivered the Letter it enclosed to Commodore

      Jones, who being detained by Business, did not go in the french Packet,

      which sailed Yesterday.

      Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise & seasonable to

      provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the

      administration of our national Government, and to declare expressly that the Command in chief of the

      american army shall not be given to, nor devolved on, any but a natural born Citizen.

      Mrs Jay is obliged by your attention, and assures You of her perfect

      Esteem & Regard—with similar Sentiments the most cordial and sincere

      I remain Dear Sir Your faithful Friend & Servt

      John Jay

    3. i have no problem with what Obama said there. when government betrays the people we cling to God and Guns and tribal affiliations. That’s true of most people. We peasants can smell a fight coming and we get ready for the showdown. It’s coming. Today i hear the mayor of Chicago on NPR openly violating 8 USC 1234 on government radio. there is a civil war brewing. insurrectionists are in the cities and they are in charge. there is a fifth column in academia media and the federal places; and there is one old fashioned way to sort it all out

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