Washington Attacker On Immigration Center Was An Antifa Member and Featured On CNN

Various news organizations are reporting that the man who threw “incendiary devices” at the Northwest Detention Center in Tacoma, Washington was an Antifa member and appears to have been featured on CNN’s “United Shades of America” with W. Kamau Bell as “one of the good guys.” Police shot and killed Willem Van Spronsen at the scene. However, there has been little coverage of his background or the CNN feature. That is curious given the steady coverage of how right-wing groups are being pushing to violence by the Trump Administration and “alt right” sites. This is not to say that CNN encouraged violence but rather that the level of coverage (and presumed connection with political or media sources) is different.

I have been a long critic of Antifa and its academic supporters. I am not surprised therefore that Van Spronsen posted a manifesto declaring “I am Antifa” or that Antifa members are applauding him as a hero or martyr to their cause.

What is more interesting is the May 5th episode of United Shades of America where Bell seems to relish the individuals are the “good guys,” including Van Spronsen, 69. Bell featured what he billed as the “Redneck Revolt,” gun-toting liberals who are battling the “alt-right.” Bell follows them to gun ranges and asked why “more white people” are not joining their ranks.

Bell explained that the “Redneck Revolt” “protects counter-protesters, feeds the hungry and fights right-wing extremis.

Particularly after the attack on journalist Andy Ngo, one would think that this coverage would raise the same concerns over rising political violation. It hasn’t.

I do not in any way believe that Bell encouraged violence. I have never seen his show but it would seem a legitimate and interesting subject for an episode. However, the same can be true about conservatives who are regularly blamed for violence, including Trump. I have repeatedly condemned Trump for this rhetoric, including just yesterday in a blog column. Yet, the coverage on political violence seems to be focused almost exclusively on the right despite the rising number of attacks by Antifa and related groups.

What do you think?

157 thoughts on “Washington Attacker On Immigration Center Was An Antifa Member and Featured On CNN”

  1. There is a type of schoolyard bully called The Avenging Angel. Believing he is fighting bullies, he becomes a bully themself.

    Antifa and its supporters are completely blind to the fact that violence against dissent is one aspect of Fascism. Antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.

    1. Karen, Antifa is ‘not’ organized. That’s what you’re not getting here. Antifa is just a broad term to encompass any left-leaning rowdy seeking to confront White nationalists in the streets. Anyone who thinks Antifa is a national organization is buying into conspiracy theories.

      1. Peter, you don’t know what you are talking about. There are all ways of organizing though your mindset is limited. To get so many people acting in unison at the same time requires some type of organization and they have it. You have to learn to think beyond your nose.

        1. they certainly appear to be a bunch of rowdies.

          but over the decades they have emerged predictably like fungus, toadstools on the lawn after a week of rain, where-ever the rot is present in sufficient conditions

          but fungus grows from spores and I suspect the spores may be seeded more deliberately than we know

          for now it’s just a hypothesis

    2. Antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.

      Yes they are, Karen. Fortunately we have the 2nd Amendment now that Antifa has made their intentions abundantly clear – violence and harm to Americans. We can not allow them. Predictably the Left wont condemn them and make excuses for their terrorist movements across America.

  2. Retrospectively Peter is reading the cards and creating new answers as time passes: “When Trump first campaigned for president I feared he would encourage a lunatic fringe”

    Who was it that broke the law? Who was it that used the Steele Dossier in front of the FISA court? Who created the entire Russia mess. We are not talking about Fringe.

    The steele Dossier was “useless”. (Peter thought it was on the same level as the 10 Commandments)
    ” the FBI represented to the FISA court that the intelligence on Page was verified and strong enough to support the FISA warrant. It was, in the end, not verified.” (Peter saw into the future and knew major parts were true)

    The fringe is actually not a fringe but the bulwark of the Democratic Party’s misdeeds such as the FBI using lies in front of the FISA Court so they could use American bureaucra y to spy on their opposition.

    We are getting closer and can see that in how Peter scrambles to change the direction of the subject.

    FBI’s spreadsheet puts a stake through the heart of Steele’s dossier

    Some in the news media have tried in recent days to rekindle their long-lost love affair with former MI6 agent Christopher Steele and his now infamous dossier.

    The main trigger was a lengthy interview in June with the Department of Justice (DOJ) inspector general, which some news outlets suggested meant U.S. officials have found Steele, the former Hillary Clinton-backed political muckraker, to be believable.

    “Investigators ultimately found Steele’s testimony credible and even surprising,” Politico crowed. The Washington Post went even further, suggesting Steele’s assistance to the inspector general might “undermine Trumpworld’s alt-narrative” that the Russia-collusion investigation was flawed.

    For sure, Steele may have valuable information to aid Justice’s internal affairs probe into misconduct during the 2016 Russia election probe. His dossier alleging a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Moscow ultimately was disproven, but not before his intelligence was used to secure a surveillance warrant targeting the Trump campaign in the final days of the 2016 election.

    Investigators are trying to ascertain what the British intelligence operative told the FBI about his sources, his relation to the Democratic Party and Clinton campaign, his hatred for Donald Trump, his Election Day deadline to get his information public and his leaking to media outlets before agents used his dossier to justify a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant to spy on ex-Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.

    There is evidence Steele told the DOJ in July, and the State Department in October, about all of these flaws in his work, and that State officials even detected blatant inaccuracies in his intelligence. If so, all of that information should have been flagged by the FBI as potentially derogatory information weighing against Steele’s use as a source for the FISA warrant.

    But lest anyone be tempted to think Steele’s 2016 dossier is about to be mysteriously revived as credible, consider this: Over months of work, FBI agents painstakingly researched every claim Steele made about Trump’s possible collusion with Russia, and assembled their findings into a spreadsheet-like document.

    The over-under isn’t flattering to Steele.

    Multiple sources familiar with the FBI spreadsheet tell me the vast majority of Steele’s claims were deemed to be wrong, or could not be corroborated even with the most awesome tools available to the U.S. intelligence community. One source estimated the spreadsheet found upward of 90 percent of the dossier’s claims to be either wrong, nonverifiable or open-source intelligence found with a Google search.

    In other words, it was mostly useless.

    “The spreadsheet was a sea of blanks, meaning most claims couldn’t be corroborated, and those things that were found in classified intelligence suggested Steele’s intelligence was partly or totally inaccurate on several claims,” one source told me.

    The FBI declined comment when asked about the spreadsheet.

    The FBI’s final assessment was driven by many findings contained in classified footnotes at the bottom of the spreadsheet. But it was also informed by an agent’s interview, in early 2017, with a Russian that Steele claimed was one of his main providers of intelligence, according to my sources.

    The FBI came to suspect that the Russian misled Steele, either intentionally or through exaggeration, the sources said.

    The spreadsheet and a subsequent report by special prosecutor Robert Mueller show just how far off the seminal claims in the Steele dossier turned out to be.

    For example, U.S. intelligence found no evidence that Carter Page, during a trip to Moscow in July 2016, secretly met with two associates of Vladimir Putin — Rosneft oil executive Igor Sechin and senior government official Igor Divyekin — as part of the effort to collude with the Trump campaign, as Steele reported.

    Page did meet with a lower-level Rosneft official, and shook hands with a Russian deputy prime minister, the FBI found, but it was a far cry from the tale that Steele’s dossier spun.

    Likewise, Steele claimed that Sechin had offered Page a hefty finder’s fee if he could get Trump to help lift sanctions on Moscow: “a 19 percent (privatized) stake in Rosneft in return.”

    That offer, worth billions of dollars, was never substantiated and was deemed by some in U.S. intelligence to be preposterous.

    The inaccuracy of Steele’s intelligence on Page is at the heart of the inspector general investigation specifically because the FBI represented to the FISA court that the intelligence on Page was verified and strong enough to support the FISA warrant. It was, in the end, not verified.

    Another knockdown of the dossier occurred when U.S. intelligence determined former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen was not in Prague in the summer of 2016 when Steele claimed he was meeting with Russians to coordinate a hijacking of the election, the sources said.

    Steele’s theory about who in the Trump campaign might be conspiring with Russia kept evolving from Page to Cohen to former campaign chairman Paul Manafort. None of those theories checked out in the end, as the Mueller report showed.

    Again, Steele’s intelligence was wrong or unverifiable.

    The salacious, headline-grabbing claim that Russians had incriminating sex tapes showing Trump engaged in depraved acts with prostitutes also met a factual dead end when the FBI interviewed the Georgian-American businessman who claimed to know about them. Giorgi Rtskhiladze told investigators “he was told the tapes were fake,” according to a footnote in the Mueller report. Rtskhiladze’s lawyer subsequently issued a letter taking issue with some of Mueller’s characterizations.

    Steele had some general things right, of course, including that the Russians were behind the hacking of the Democratic National Committee’s emails. Of course, there were public reports saying so when Steele reported this.

    But even then, his dossier’s theory of how the hackers worked, who paid them and how they communicated with Trump was determined in the FBI spreadsheet and subsequent Mueller investigation to be far from accurate.

    Even State officials, who listened to Steele’s theories in October 2016 — less than two weeks before his dossier was used to support the FISA request — instantly determined he was grossly wrong on some points.

    Any effort to use Steele’s belated cooperation with the inspector general’s investigation to prop up the credibility of his 2016 anti-Trump dossier or the FBI’s reliance on it for the FISA warrant is deeply misguided.

    Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), a key defender of Trump, said he talked with DOJ officials after the most recent stories surfaced about Steele and was told the reporting is wrong. “Based on my conversations with DOJ officials, recent reports which suggest Christopher Steele’s dossier and allegations are somehow deemed credible by DOJ, are simply false and not based on any confirmation from sources with direct knowledge of ongoing investigations,” Meadows told me.

    The FBI’s own spreadsheet was so conclusive that it prompted then-FBI Director James Comey (no fan of Trump, mind you) to dismiss the document as “salacious and unverified” and for lead FBI agent Peter Strzok to text, “There’s no big there there.” FBI lawyer Lisa Page testified that nine months into reviewing Steele’s dossier they had not found evidence of the collusion that Steele alleged.

    Two years later, Mueller came to the same conclusion: Steele’s intelligence alleging a conspiracy was never verified.

    The next time you hear a pundit suggesting Steele’s dossier is credible or that the FBI’s reliance on it as FISA evidence was justified, just picture all those blanks in that FBI spreadsheet.

    They speak volumes as to what went wrong in the Russia investigation. __Solomon

    1. Alan, you missed this passage from my comment:

      “Every day Trump invites reactions from lunatics. One can read their comments on Jonathan Turley’s blog”.

      1. “Every day Trump invites reactions from lunatics. One can read their comments on Jonathan Turley’s blog”.

        The lunatics exist and they don’t need Trump to react. TDS exists because of an unhealthy Democratic Party.

  3. Interesting, Trumps wins again against the Anti-American Commie/Nazis Trash! LOL:)

    I’m sure more videos in the morrow.

  4. NEWTON’S LAW OF POLITICS:

    ‘FOR EVERY FRINGE THERE’S AN OPPOSITE’

    When Trump first campaigned for president I feared he would encourage a lunatic fringe. A ‘leftist’ fringe, in addition to right-wingers. Regrettably my fears were founded. It’s happens because a Machiavellian dominates our national discussion.

    Every day Trump invites reactions from lunatics. One can read their comments on Jonathan Turley’s blog. And Professor Turley keeps us updated about the leftist fringe. So this is a good blog for measuring the sanity of our politics. It is, however, depressing.

    You can’t throw out all standards of statesmanship and expect the country to remain civil. In no corporation would the behavior of a CEO not affect the conduct most employees. “It comes down from the top”, as employees say.

    So if the President seeks to publicly air his grievances virtually every day, that affects our national well-being. This President no pretense of even being a statesmen. He’s just a rich blowhard yelling F U to everyone! Service employees in Beverly hills know that type.

    Rich blowhards don’t belong in the White House. That’s the last place you want a rich, arrogant narcist yelling F U to everyone. It perverts the national discussion. All day, every day, our news concerns the target of Trump’s latest grievance. That’s not normal! There are good reasons why we never allowed that in the past.

    No president with any concern for the national well-being tells four congresswoman to “Go back to where you came from”. Whether those women deserve it or not is completely beside the point. By making that comment Trump demands allegiance from all Republicans. Forcing Senators and Congressmen to defend the inexcusable.

    By forcing Republicans to defend him, Trump is taking the country on a course where crazy is normal. Any adult, with an ounce of common sense, knows that isn’t right. Those are the ambitions of an evil schemer. A traitor intent on breaking up America.

    1. I’m sure glad that that HHHNN newsflash from Pater “Hollywood” Hill was in ALL CAPITALIZED LETTERS.
      Otherwise, I might have scrolled right past it.😃

      1. News flash for anyway else……rather than starting up your own blog ana propaganda site, just piggyback on to this one.
        Saves time and effort. And be sure to put the blaring headlines in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.

    2. Peter, except for the small segment of Americans who like the argument and the fighting – and I am one of them as are all posters here, whether they will admit it or not – the country is exhausted by this ugly narcissist and will be looking for a return to decency, decorum, and serious leadership, not someone like Trump but from the opposite side of the spectrum. The idea that the Democratic candidate will need to best Trump in a food fight is wrong. They will only need to hold their ground as a contrast in style and substance, and that should be easy. No one is enjoying the President’s s..t show except him and those few of us willingly arm wrestling on sites like this every day. The rest of America can’t wait for this show to be canceled.

      1. Anon1:
        Your modernist philosophy is already dead and we’re not going back to your globalist never-never land. Nationalism and nationalist leaders are the order of the day. Get used to it or don your mask and bicycle lock and join the ephemeral Antifa. Their reckoning is coming soon to a courthouse near you.

        1. Mespo, I welcome this debate!

          I think the trend you see is the last gasp of old white folks who imagine the world going to hell and their power shrinking, while the fact is the world has never been better for humans and despite real challenges – most of which your group wants to ignore – is enjoying a period of unprecedented peace and proseperity by almost any measure you want to use. Check how well Trump and Brexit did with the under 50 crowd.

          Of course globalism, in the form of our alliances with other democracies, improved world communications and supplies, and the break down of trade barriers is a large part of that success. Wanting to go back to nationalism in a shrinking and heavily armed world is stupid beyond belief. If you don;t think so read another history book – one that doesn’t start in 1946. Know the definition of fascism?

          Definition of fascism
          1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

          https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

          The future doesn’t belong to you and kurtz, it belongs to all of us and you better get used to it.

            1. Your vision here is globalism and diversity but the vision you continuously espouse is Tribalism.

              If you really believe in globalism and equality give away most of your money and live like most of the global population lives otherwise you are nothing more than a hypocrite.

              Nothing wrong with nationaism if held in check within one’s own borders. We have not reached a time where the undefended won’t be swallowed up.

          1. @anon1

            I hope you get all of the globalization and diversity you can handle, up close and personally. And I hope that you will not be able to escape the consequences of polices you support. Policies that working class people cannot but the upper middle class are pros at doing.

            And when diversity comes calling in the form of minority crime or a jihadi, being a good liberal will be of little help.

            No, Anon, the future is in nationalism, not globalization. A specter is haunting Europe, and it is called nationalism. People are tribal by nature and all of the political correctness in the world cannot change that.

            antonio

            1. Well antonio, putting aside your racist comments – you agree they are racist, right? – world history of the last 75 years and American history since it;s founding says your wrong and I’m right. Diversity and cooperation are stronger than tribalism. We did the tribalism thing for much of our history before, but fortunately enough cooperation to eventually build nations which ended in the total disasters of the early 20th century, with the climax – so to speak – of nationalistic expression known as fascism.

              No thanks, antonio, most of us are too smart for that, though if you and mespo are right, you have no reason to take solace in that. Enjoy WWIII.

              1. @anon1

                Actually, I can’t be racist, I’m Hispanic, name and all, and if I were a liberal one you would be kissing my a@@ in an attempt to suck up.

                And calling me a name or dismissing my comments isn’t an answer. Bet you don’t live in an area with a lot of diversity. But like most lefties, you sure love virtual signaling to show how good of a person you are. Being a “good person”, doesn’t require one to get one’s hands dirty, does it?

                I would suggest you read the “Color of Crime” from the New Century Foundation. It can be downloaded for free. Of course, you won’t, doesn’t fit the template. You’ll just call me another name or two.

                Again, I hope you get to experience lots of diversity up close and personal. After all, it’s our greatest strength, right? What could possibly go wrong?

                antonio

                1. antonio, I didn’t call you a name,. and of course you can be a racist no matter what stock you are. Last I read history, “Hispanics” raped and pillaged across two continents full of “Indians”.

                  IF it comes to you what name I called you, y’all come back, or if you just want to try and salvage your otherwise destroyed argument, anytime.

                  1. @anon1

                    No, according to orthodox dogma, only whites, particularly Anglo whites can be racist and since that is not my ethnicity, I cannot be racist.

                    You are going to lose your good liberal card if you keep this up.

                    And you didn’t comment on my observation that you probably have the means (and desire) to avoid diversity up close and personally. Most sh@@libs won’t get their hands dirty but they certainly want to rub others noses in it.

                    1. here’s a dose of diversity too bad they didn’t chop up some one world we’re all the same style globalists while they were at it

                      http://news.trust.org/item/20190716205816-32ndg

                      LOS ANGELES, July 16 (Reuters) – Twenty-two Los Angeles members of the notorious MS-13 gang with nicknames such as “Desastre” and “Lucifer” have been charged with running a criminal racketeering enterprise enforced with a string of murders, some by machete, prosecutors said on Tuesday.

                      The 12-count U.S. District Court indictment, handed down on Monday in Los Angeles, charges the MS-13 members and associates with killing seven people over the past two years, including gang rivals, people thought to be cooperating with police and a homeless man who was found living on their “turf.”

                      “Taking violent offenders off the street should send a message to MS-13 members and their associates that medieval-style violence and senseless murder will not be tolerated in Los Angeles,” Paul Delacourt, assistant director in charge of the FBI’s Los Angeles office, said in a written statement.

                      MS-13, which originated in the 1980s as a Salvadoran street gang in Los Angeles called Mara Salvatrucha, has grown into a multi-national criminal organization known for its brutality. The “MS” is an abbreviation for Mara Salvatrucha – a reference to El Salvador – and the 13 is for M, the 13th letter of the alphabet, which reflects the gang’s loyalty to the Mexican Mafia.

                      The indictment targets a subset of MS-13 known as the “Fulton clique,” which prosecutors say operates out of the San Fernando Valley neighborhood of Los Angeles and has recently mushroomed due to an influx of young Central American immigrants to Southern California.

                      The court documents say that younger associates of the Fulton clique who want to become full-fledged MS-13 members were required to kill a rival gang member or other adversary to gain initiation.

                      Among the murders detailed in the indictment is that of a rival gang member who was abducted and hacked to death on March 6, 2017 in a remote area of the Los Angeles National Forest by MS-13 members who believed he had defaced their graffiti.

                      The victim was dismembered, his heart cut from his chest and thrown into a canyon with other body parts, according to court papers.
                      ——————————————————————-

                      I say WELCOME TO CALIFORNIA. & Let’s help California secede!

                    2. “No, according to orthodox dogma, only whites,”

                      Anon lacks awareness of what is happening around him. He probably is unfamiliar with the word intersectionality.

                      You get a point because you are Hispanic but probably lose one because you are male. If you are queer, black and Muslim you get a lot of points added. If you are a Jewish Hispanic you lose points.

              2. Most of us most of us blah blah blah

                1/7 of the world is in China which is racist and another 1/7 in Indian with its persistent caste system.. at least acc to the WAPO

                https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/27/china-and-india-have-a-huge-problem-with-racism-toward-black-people/

                wake up, it’s normal to be ethnic, tribal, and national. it’s normal..

                globalism means nothing but rootless atomized individuals who will never stick together and be able to stand up to the existing plutocracy. it’s devoid of human connectedness and relatedness and is a hellish consequence of solopsistic individualism gone selfishly wild

                i welcome total war with globalism another false ideology in a long succession of unnatural utopian fantasies that always fail in application just like its ugly older batard cousin communism. but at least communism called for people to stick together on some level, that of class, globalism doesn’t even want that much. globalism, a totally vapid empty bag of fart-smell nonsense.

                1. OK kurtz, I already established the unprecedented success of globalism and brought up the obvious benefits of cooperation and downsides of tribalism which are obvious to normal sensate humans.. But hey, if you want WWIII, it’s a free country! Not much point in arguing with someone like that.

                  1. you want to see who’s coming to this country because of the policies you favor?

                    barbarians like these guys. tribalists to the core

                    you better get a dose of the kind of tribalism I’m vending here because without it you will end up badly.

                    http://news.trust.org/item/20190716205816-32ndg

                    California gang members charged in L.A. machete murders, racketeering
                    by Reuters
                    Tuesday, 16 July 2019 21:18 GMT

                    LOS ANGELES, July 16 (Reuters) – Twenty-two Los Angeles members of the notorious MS-13 gang with nicknames such as “Desastre” and “Lucifer” have been charged with running a criminal racketeering enterprise enforced with a string of murders, some by machete, prosecutors said on Tuesday.

                    The 12-count U.S. District Court indictment, handed down on Monday in Los Angeles, charges the MS-13 members and associates with killing seven people over the past two years, including gang rivals, people thought to be cooperating with police and a homeless man who was found living on their “turf.”

                    “Taking violent offenders off the street should send a message to MS-13 members and their associates that medieval-style violence and senseless murder will not be tolerated in Los Angeles,” Paul Delacourt, assistant director in charge of the FBI’s Los Angeles office, said in a written statement.

                    MS-13, which originated in the 1980s as a Salvadoran street gang in Los Angeles called Mara Salvatrucha, has grown into a multi-national criminal organization known for its brutality. The “MS” is an abbreviation for Mara Salvatrucha – a reference to El Salvador – and the 13 is for M, the 13th letter of the alphabet, which reflects the gang’s loyalty to the Mexican Mafia.

                    [COMMENT FROM KURTZ– LAST ASSERTION BADLY WRONG — M is for Maras refers to a street in San Salvador, La Mara, salva means salvadoran, trucha means trout. has nothing to do with “mexican mafia” a totally different federation of gangs. moreover MS 13 CLAIMS NOT TO HAVE TO PAY GANG TAX TO LA EME BUT WHO CARES, REUTERS, LOL]

                    ..recently mushroomed due to an influx of young Central American immigrants to Southern California……

                    The court documents say that younger associates of the Fulton clique who want to become full-fledged MS-13 members were required to kill a rival gang member or other adversary to gain initiation.

                    Among the murders detailed in the indictment is that of a rival gang member who was abducted and hacked to death on March 6, 2017 in a remote area of the Los Angeles National Forest by MS-13 members who believed he had defaced their graffiti.

                    The victim was dismembered, his heart cut from his chest and thrown into a canyon with other body parts, according to court papers.

                    1. Kurtz, I’m well aware of MS13 and have been for about a decade when the AUSA I’m very close to – he’s also a Democrat – successfully led the prosecution of a gang of them in a RICO case which involved murders.The DOJ has been dealing with these a..h… Long before Trump – and now you – seized them as a political prop intended to blur the fact that immigrants legal and illegal have lower violent crime rates than native born Americans.

                    2. @anon1

                      Yes, your precious “immigrants” have lower crime rates than native born Americans only because of the astronomical black crime rate.

                      I would recommend anyone read the “Color of Crime” which can be easily found online.

                      antonio

                  2. For a very large part what we have seen is American nationalism raise the standard of living all over the world. It is the US that has played the bigggest part in globalism. Without the US the world would be a poorer place.

            2. Antonio, the same person that pushes globalism is also the same person that pushes tribalism. He doesn’t have a firm understanding of what he is talking about or what globalism really means.

              He thinks he is in a Chinese restaurant where he picks from column A and column B at will. It doesn’t work that way in real life.

              1. Allan there is a healthy tribalism nationalism or ethnic feeling. Nationalism is a bigger version of that. That is not an ally of globalism whatsoever. Globalism means “we are all the same” and “poor people can come take your stuff because we are the world, etc etc etc” and the global bureaucrats will decide how it’s all allocated. And nobody will stand up to them because all formerly strong social bonds like family tribe ethny nation race or religions or class or anything natural and strong will have been eliminated in favor of verbal gobbledygook slogans.

                no tribalism is natural, but like other natural instincts of course it can go to far. such as hunger can go to far and become gluttony. moderation is always a virtue in these things.

                but denying natural instincts altogether is pure insanity and the path to ruin

                1. @mrkurtz

                  Much of Leftism is an attempt to demonize and eliminate natural instincts. Or pretend they don’t exist. It goes something like, “If only we could only eliminate race, ethnicity, religion, traditional mores, patriotism, etc.” we would create heaven on earth. Kind of like the John Lennon song “Imagine”. What utopian nonsense.

                  Communists tried really hard to eliminate nationalism and traditional culture without much success. Today’s multiculturalists will experience the same.

                  antonio

                  1. Top 10 things liberals used to say but not anymore.

                    10) “I would never vote for a warmonger. For the sake of future generations, we must seek peace instead of provoking conflict.”

                    9) “All of this anti-Russia hysteria– this looking for dangerous subversives under every bed– is silly and embarrassing. Really, it’s nothing more than a politically-motivated witch hunt. Knock it off, already!”

                    8) “I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

                    7) “Good for her for refusing to wear the hijab. Any woman who refuses to submit to oppressive male chauvinist customs is a hero of mine!”

                    6) “I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be wary of Russia … but I’m MUCH more frightened by what our OWN government is capable of doing.”

                    5) “If you don’t like a book, or a movie, or a website, or a speech don’t try to get it banned, and don’t harass the people who created or authored this material you find offensive… just read or watch something else! We do have a little thing called the ‘First Amendment, ya know!”

                    4) “The CIA is a monstrous organization… do you know some of the things that they have a history of doing? I would never take their word for anything, or trust them in any way… they’re criminals.”

                    3) “Why is the United States always propping up brutal dictatorships, and engaging in shady deals with murderous regimes? I would never support a candidate if I found out that he or she was in bed with thugs like the Saudis or ISIS.”

                    2) “If a military coup were launched to overthrow a legally-elected president, this would be a terrible and calamitous event, signalling an end to all of the values that we hold dear as a nation.”

                    1) “We should teach our young people to be open-minded, and to respectfully consider points of view which may differ from their own.”

                    antonio

                    1. Antonio doesn’t have to imagine what liberals say. If he’s got the nuts he can talk to me.

                      By the way, Russia interferred with our election, and if it hadn’t been to the benefit of Antonio’s candidate, his hair would be on fire. How seriously are we to take his opinions now with that situational position?

                    2. @anon1

                      What liberals USED to say…but not anymore.

                      Are you telling me you are against speech codes and censorship?

                      You are going to lose your liberal card if you keep this up. Censorship is a hallmark of today’s leftists.

                      Have the nuts? Was a combat veteran in my younger days. Don’t worry, I read your posts, and am aware of what you say.

                      antonio

                    3. Anon, Russia has been interfering with our elections forever. The FBI had an obligation once they accepted the Steele Dossier as real to inform the President like they did with Democrats who had potential security leaks and affiliations with spies.

                      We now know the Steele document was known garbage even before the FISA warrants signed by high ranking officials.

                    4. Stick to the subject antonio – I think it was your dreams for a beautiful new world of tribal gangs, or something like that.

                      You may have been very brave in combat but your acting like a p..y here.

                      I’m leaving to check jobs. Answer you later.

                    5. @anon1

                      I do not write of future dystopia in the form of tribal gangs because I have some perverse desire to see bad things happen. I write of the failures of multiculturalism and diversity only as the bearer of bad news.

                      Multiculturalism as defined and practiced in the west is inherently unstable and causes inevitable conflict.

                      Diversity is not and can never be a strength but causes tension and weakness. It can be managed at best and but leads to ethnic, racial or/religious strife. The list is endless – Rwanda, Northern Ireland, the former Yugoslavia, the USSR, Czechoslovakia, French and English Canada, India, etc.

                      Constantly saying “diversity is a strength” does not make it so. My pointing out the emperor has no clothes does not make me a Nazi or “white supremacist” and I am neither.

                      With a strong, dominate culture and language, a society can have minorities but a society cannot have multiculturalism and mass immigration without causing this inevitable conflict. The 1965 America as a 90% white nation could have lasted indefinitely. An 85% ethnic Russian, Russian Federation or 90% Han Chinese China will. The United States, western Europe and Canada will have never ending conflict due to enforced diversity and multiculturalism.

                      Europe is discovering this. Places like Maine and Minnesota are also discovering the same.

                      antonio

                    6. I’ll answer you later antonio. I have to go out again. Thanks for the response.

                    7. Antonio, sorry I took so long – long day!

                      I don’t see the same trends as you do. In America racial strife is less than it was in the 60s and so is crime. Before the 60s the racial strife was the subjugation of blacks for a couple of hundred years, a fact easily ignored by most whites. The dynamic is the acceptance of those different from ourselves and eventually those differences disappearing. The fact that the young are more accepting than the old is the proof of this. It is probably true that some forms of tribal strife will never end, or if it does we’ll invent new ones for our amusement – that’s part of the appeal of sports and Buckeye/Wolverine or Gator/Bulldog rivalries and soccer hooligans take this form to extremes – but most sports fans interact fine with their opposites except on game day. Sticking with the sports metaphor, I think most of us our inspired by a mixed race team demonstrating how many can become one or the idea that America competes on the complete world stage – not just sports – with a wealth of talents from many races and cultures and we can be proud of them all as our own, part of our team.

                      The bonds of race and culture can be broken and must be if the world is not to devolve into deadly and ever more serious and cataclysmic conflict. Like it or not, our identities as members of one of these groups will have to become less important for us to survive. Both my wife and I are from relatively pure genetic stock, she more then me. I am a mix of English, German, and Dutch while she is eastern European Jewish on both sides. Our kids – now adult – are beautiful, healthy, smart, and we liked to joke early that they show “hybrid vigor”. a real benefit in biology. With the decline of religion for most in the modern world, the other glue than genetics keeping some together and others out, new generations will define new social groupings to achieve belonging. With the obvious success of the sciences, the promised magic of religion fades, and the need to ward of evil spirits causing illness and death disappears. That’s a heavy burden we have carried for thousands of years and what a relief to put it down.

                      In short, embrace the future, don’t hide from it. It’s not perfect – nothing is – but the idea all is going to hell just doesn’t hold up to close inspection, and the surest way to make that happen is to go back to the systems and beliefs which caused the misery of the early 20th century. Bad as that was, our weapons are even stronger now, and we can’t afford that nonsense.

                  2. Antonio ignores the fact that the US has successfully led the world in a now 75 year effort to maintain world peace sufficient for the flourishing of science, medicine, and the world’s economy sufficient that mass starvation is no longer in our headlines and even third world peoples live longer and healthier lives.

                    This is not pie in the sky wishes as antonio pretends, it’s established fact and now he cheers a president refusing to lead and who is systematically undermining those long and successful alliances with fellow democracies.

                    Antonio is the one selling an unproven wish, and one that on last attempt led to two world wars

                    1. Think of a successful alliance as a successful marriage. If the wife works all day and then comes home to clean, make dinner and take care of the kids while the husband does very little or nothing that might be a marriage but not a successful one.

                      Think of Trump as a marriage counsellor. He is making our alliance stronger by having the participants live by the agreement. Trump has been doing that which strenghtens alliance and along the way creating other alliances. Should this alliance fail because of the indiscretions of some our partners then we can take the remaining willing partners and create a new alliance.

                      Germany is a major problem. If you wish to explore the geopolitical problems with Germany start with Germany and its oil supply. The enemy supposedly was Russia and Germany is or was permitting themselves to be put under the thumb of Russia and then through alliance to be bailed out by the US.

                      Your man Obama was treading water or worse so that one day the entire alliance would be useless. The Russians should would not have moved the way they did if there was a stronger President in office and we might have had better relations that would have benefitted both countries.

                    2. Anon, for your information, the block on your name may last only a few hours or just on the present thread. A good while back I had the same problem but when a new thread came the block was off. WordPress is quirky. I don’t use my old icon except when signing up because for some reason WordPress doesn’t remember the data so all I do is type in my name.

                2. Kurtz be careful of placing too much emphasis on these words as their meanings vary and change witht the discussion. There is nothing wrong with nationalism tribalism or globalism unless taken too far. The Democrats have taken all three names and gone way too far. Tribalism is the game they play to gain power and they use it to oppress people.

          2. ha ha, he’s trolling me with that “future belongs to me” thing and I will take the bait just because i love this song, maybe old enough to remember Cabaret?
            ——————————————————————————-

            The sun on the meadow is summery warm
            The stag in the forest runs free
            But gather together to greet the storm
            Tomorrow belongs to me

            The branch of the linden is leafy and green
            The Rhine gives its gold to the sea
            But somehow a glory awaits unseen
            Tomorrow belongs to me

            The babe in his cradle is soundly asleep
            The blossom embraces the bee
            But soon, says a whisper
            Arise, arise, tomorrow belongs to me

            Oh, Fatherland, Fatherland show us the sign
            Your children have waited to see
            The morning will come when the world is mine
            Tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs
            Tomorrow belongs to me

            Tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs
            Tomorrow belongs to me

            1. No doubt kurtz has a h…o. for the perfect aryan singer and probably marched right out of the movie house.

              1. i never watched the whole movie, just like the song. sorry

                you know it’s a great song. you love it too. the songwriters were jewish. are you an antisemite?

                imdb says

                “Tomorrow Belongs to Me” was written by John Kander and Fred Ebb in the style of a traditional German song, sung by the Nazi youth in the movie, to stir up patriotism for the “fatherland”. It has often been mistaken for a genuine “Nazi anthem” and has led to the songwriters being accused of anti-Semitism. This would be most surprising, as they are, in fact, Jewish (This fact has not stopped openly racist and anti-Semitic rock groups, like Skrewdriver, from recording the song and performing it at White Power rallies). It is also the only song sung outside of the cabaret setting to survive the transition from stage to film.”

                1. Cabaret is in my top 5 movies. I am married to a Jew, which makes my kids and extended family Jewish.

                    1. ” I am married to a Jew, which makes my kids and extended family Jewish.”

                      Anon, do you want us to clap or give you a prize?

          3. Anon1:
            The debate is over. From Samoa, Japan and Australia to Western and Eastern Europe through Africa and the United States and even Canada the nationalist backlash is growing and advancing against globalism. Conservative and traditional governments have overwhelmingly won. Global institutions like Hillary and the EU have lost. And there’s no skin color test either. There’s little hope for the globalists as even Emperor George Soros has conceded since the rise of traditional religion has taken sway even in once godless Russia. We’re post-modern now and about to return to a conservative values world. The signs are freely accessible to anyone who wants to look.

      2. will be looking for a return to decency, decorum, and serious leadership,

        Eisenhower retired in 1961. And, no, Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris are not examples of decency, decorum, or serious leadership. That fellow Delaney might be, but his chances of being the Democratic nominee are nil.

        1. Tabby, we desperately need an Eisenhower now. A leader who feels a sense of duty to hold this country together. But we might have to settle for someone whose sanity is not completely warped.

          1. Eisenhower was a modern day conqueror, a Dux Bellorum who organized and orchestrated the massive destruction of Germany into a smoking heap of rubble, sending troops to their death and even more of the adversary liekwise. And along with them, countless civilians dead in the ruins as collateral damages and many many more to follow after the armistice.

            If you think he was a peaceful dude in any way then you apparently aren’t familiar with what happened during the war.

            Eisenhower also sent a million Mexicans or so back home in “operation wetback” a successful deportation if we ever had one

              1. Are you celebrating the deliberate targeting of civilian populations with weapons of mass destruction Peter? how very nice of you to make the case for Ike.

                I don’t want to belabor the point, but it used to be that hippies and Democrat types were aghast when they found out about things like the fireboming of Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg. To say nothing of Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

                A topic we covered last week. Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse Five. is a good read. try it

                If you think it was bad one side targeted civilians, then wouldnt it make sense to condemn both sides? that is called “just war theory” and it’s worth trying to apply consistently

                oh and by the way, I’ll give you some more supplemental reading, about the postwar deliberate ethnic cleansing of German ethnic civilians from eastern Europe by communists. The author is a respected human rights lawyer but some people call him a leftist, I saw him interviewed on Venezuelan youtube not too long ago.

                https://www.amazon.com/Terrible-Revenge-Cleansing-European-Germans/dp/1403973083

                there’s hope for you yet peter.

                1. The German population of the residue of East Prussia, West Prussia, Posen, and Silesia left to the German Reich in 1919 was about 7.5 million. There were another 0.5 million in the Danzig and Memelland territories. There were about 3.2 million in Czechoslovakia. There were about 0.6 million in the Soviet Union, mostly Volga Germans. So, he fancies there were 3.2 million in a complex of former Hapsburg territories (some of which had Hungarian majorities, others Slavic majorities, others Roumanian majorities). Ethnic Germans would have had to have been 10% of the population in those places. Don’t think so.

            1. Kurtz, every time Peter shill opens his mouth to talk favorably about a Republican President he shoots himself because he doesn’t know his history and barely knows what is going on in the world. I’m starting to feel sorry for Peter and his intellectual debilities.

              1. I’m not trying to run down Ike I just don’t like how they want to lionize him and demonize Trump. nothing they say is consistent however ,it only serves the talking points of the day

                1. Ike was a good President where times were easier for the leader of our country. Trump is heading to be a great President.

            2. @mrkurtz

              Eisenhower would be called an evil Nazi, racist homophobe nowadays for even suggesting something akin to Operation Wetback.

              Guess that means his statues need removal too. You know it isn’t going to stop with the Confederates.

        2. Someone who supports Trump – like TIA – has obviously surrendered any claim to know what constitutes decent, decorous, and serious leadership.

          This is Anon1

          1. Someone who supports Trump – like TIA – has obviously surrendered any claim to know what constitutes decent, decorous, and serious leadership.

            You’re an utter fraud and not in a position to instruct anyone about anything.

      3. Anon, you are spot on: “the country is exhausted by this ugly narcissist “.

        God are we exhausted! This country is heading for a nervous breakdown; exactly as Trump wants.

        1. Peter, look at your postings and then look in a mirror. Your postings show it all. You are soon to be carried out in a straight jacket.

        2. This country is heading for a nervous breakdown;

          Your Antifa friends, along with CNN, are threatening to kill Americans while the Left like Stephanie “Red Hen Restaurant owner” Wilkinson, threaten bodily harm to everyday Americans

          Your people started down this past in 1973 with killing babies and you are only beginning. Americans now realize that

        3. You guys are exhausted. I am exhilarated. And just getting going on it.

          You could always move to Canada! Give it a try.

          1. “ou could always move to Canada! Give it a try.”

            When Peter goes to Canada and complains someone might tell him why not go back home and fix the problems and then come back and tell us how to do it. Then he can yell and scream that Candians are racists.

    3. “Whether those women deserve it or not is completely beside the point.”
      ***************
      At least Peter distills his insane prose to one oxymoronic statement so we don’t have to wade through the rest of the trash. Kudos.

    4. “‘FOR EVERY FRINGE THERE’S AN OPPOSITE’”

      Fringe that is who is presently leading the Democratic Party. Nancy Pelosi no longer has control. She has yeilded to the Omar’s and AOC’s that call for the total destruction of the US economy and the US itself.

      Well done Peter. Our nation is doing pretty well when one compares it to how it was doing and to the rest of the world. I guess the statement is correct except your ideas are 180 degrees off. The fringe run the Democratic Party while adults are in charge of the Republicans.

      1. The pendulu has swung and now the other side has its chance.
        —-
        A new petition uploaded to the WhiteHouse.gov site is demanding an immediate Congressional investigation into Rep. Ilhan Omar.

        President Trump is currently engaged in a war of rhetoric with Omar and three other Congresswomen after he asked, “Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came?”

        The petition is titled ‘Conduct an Immediate Congressional Investigation Into Rep. Ilhan Omar’ and reads as follows;

        We ask the President to initiate a Congressional investigation into Rep. Ilhan Omar’s background to determine if she should face expulsion from Congress.

        Rep. Omar’s oath of loyalty to the United States of America is in serious doubt.

        Omar made light of the September 11 terror attack by referring to the atrocity as “some people did something”.

        Omar was recorded laughing about and making light of Islamic terrorism and the Al-Qaeda threat.

        Omar refused to condemn the terrorist attack by a self-described Antifa member, who tried to firebomb an ICE facility in Washington State.

        Omar also defended jihadists in her state who chose to join ISIS, saying they should get lighter punishments.

        There are also severe allegations concerning the question of whether Omar married her own brother.

        Article I, Section 5 of the United States Constitution details the measures necessary to initiate an expulsion of a sitting member of Congress, which requires the concurrence of two-thirds of the members.

        Earlier today it was revealed that the House will pass a resolution condemning Trump’s “racist” tweets.

        Those Tweets were NOT Racist. I don’t have a Racist bone in my body! The so-called vote to be taken is a Democrat con game,” Trump responded.

        “Republicans should not show “weakness” and fall into their trap. This should be a vote on the filthy language, statements and lies told by the Democrat Congresswomen, who I truly believe, based on their actions, hate our Country,” he added.

    1. excellent! they are anarchists pure and simple

      a nation without borders is no nation, it is a territory waiting for invasion.

      1. Trust me, when you go to Nancy Pelosi’s house you see walls, gates, doors with locks, burgular alarm systems and armed personal. She knows exactly where the borders are on her property and if you cross onto it without permission you will be stopped, thrown out and potentially put in Jail.

  5. Great going AOC!

    ——-
    Antifa Member Who Attacked ICE Center Echoed Ocasio-Cortez’s ‘Concentration Camp’ Language In Final Manifesto

    “The man who attacked an Immigration and Customs Enforcement center over the weekend echoed Democratic New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s description of detention centers as “concentration camps” in a manifesto he published before the attack.

    Willem Van Spronsen, who identified himself as a member of the left-wing Antifa movement in his manifesto, died in a shootout Saturday after storming an ICE center in Tacoma, Washington, armed with flares and a rifle. Van Spronsen, 69, reportedly attempted to ignite a propane tank on the premises in order to burn down the facility.

    “Evil says concentration camps for folks deemed lesser are necessary. The handmaid of evil says the concentration camps should be more humane,” Van Spronsen wrote in his manifesto. He referred to detention centers as “concentration camps” on four separate occasions in the manifesto, which local media confirmed as authentic.

    Van Spronsen’s manifesto also referred to a coming “revolution” and urged his “comrades” to arm themselves.

    Ocasio-Cortez has repeatedly accused the U.S. government of running “concentration camps”on the southern border.”

    1. AOC and the other anarchists are fifth columnists, saboteurs, and traitors.

      they would have this country reduced to a big welfare project for all of Central America’s countless poor if they had their way

      I say cut to the chase. Get medieval with this, go to the mat, go all the way. Hit first and hit hard

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