Gay pride parades are hardly news in the United States, but there is one that is worth noting abroad. This week thousands of people, including some of the country’s most famous artists and figures, marched in the first gay pride parade in Bosnia. Despite counter demonstrations from Muslim groups, the government created a safe space with a large police deployment and snipers. Americans can take particular pride in the fact that our ambassador, who is gay, joined the parade.
Over 50 percent of the country is Muslim and another 30 percent are Orthodox Christian. While the majority of the population likely hold opposing views of sexual orientation, the march was still allowed to occur in a triumph for not just gay rights but free speech.
There remains much work of course. Activists allege that various institutions encouraged violence against organizers and participants. However, the fact remains is that a gay pride parade was held in a majority Muslim Balkan country. That is worth celebrating.
99 thoughts on “Bosnia Holds First Gay Pride Parade”
It isn’t something to celebrate at all, it’s sad and morally disastrous… Your premise is false and historically absurd. The ambassador should resign — immediately.
I think that gay pride needs to be a little more nuanced. As it stands, the intention is clearly to be as over the top as possible. Rather than show that gay people are just like anyone else, the gay pride parades I’ve been to range from camp to S&M. Men walk other men on all fours with leashes and dog collars. Men wear G-strings and chaps with their butts showing. It would be like having a porn and S&M festival, and calling it a straight pride parade. I sincerely hope that the organizers did not go for maximum shock value in a 50% Muslim majority country. Hopefully, there will be no violence. In 2008, Islamic extremists violently attacked participating in the Queer Sarajevo Festival.
A typical gay pride parade can be lots of fun to attend when you’re an adult, but it’s definitely not family friendly, because they are often hyper sexualized. This can create issues when families are on vacation, and a gay pride parade is in town. Even an elevator ride in your hotel can be X-rated. I enjoy the camp of the Crowning of the Queen. Sometimes, it troubles me that parade organizers want the LGBT community to be more associated with S&M and camp, than the regular guys you work with. The movement towards trying to mandate speech on gender pronouns is especially concerning. That is moving away from tolerance.
Gays used to not be accepted. I can see how important it is for the gay community to stand tall with their heads up, just as worthy as anyone else. What does not make much sense is to be proud for being gay. That makes as much sense as being proud of being straight. What if the guy is a Lothario, straight or gay, who treats partners like they’re disposable? Is his sexuality something to be proud of? One isn’t normally proud of sexual habits. One can be proud to be a good and worthy person, or someone who treats their significant others well, while sexual orientation itself has nothing to do with it.
I would also point out that the same reasoning for religious art or festivals holds true for LGBT. If you have a nativity scene, then your neighbor can have a winter solstice, wiccan, or humanist display. If you have a gay pride parade, then someone else can have a straight pride parade. The rules have to apply equally to all.
As far as I know Karen, you are welcome to organize a straight pride parade anywhere in America. If you are not able to, I will support your efforts to prevail.
A pornographic straight pride festival? Have you ever been in New Orleans during Mardi Gras or Las Vegas on a day ending in “y.”
That’s the point both gay critics (not necessarily homophobes) and gay advocates keep missing – that pride, itself, comes from achievement, not identity. The only Gay Pride parade that matters is led by Richard Grenell, US ambassador to Germany, and Peter Thiel, who thanks to early involvement in PayPal became rich enough to fund Gawker’s victims in court until the final court case in which Hulk Hogan (not gay at all) and lawyers paid by Thiel finally obtained the judgment that broke Gawker’s back.
Technicolor freak shows in the street are not just irrelevant to challenges gays face in society, they provoke reactions that actually delay gays’ acceptance in society and lend respectability to idiocy on bioth sides of the controversy.
Whatever I think of homosexuals (and I honestly do not that much about them, one way or the other), why is it any of America’s business what occurs in Bosnia with regards to this small subset of their population?
Tell an American, whether they claim to be liberal or conservative that somewhere in the world is none of America’s business and you will get a strange look.
I mean, “isn’t it all our business, we’re only trying to help them”?
Henry Kissinger said Americans are constitutionally incapable of seeing themselves as others see them.
Sentiments such as those by JT are part of the reason America is overextended.
Antonio, the world has shrunk and continues on that course for better or worse – mostly for the best if you measure by any hard data – and it is not possible, nor desirable to isolate ourselves from world events. Humanitarian issues are morally our concern as fellow humans, as well as our selfish concern under enlightened self interest. The more civilized values are accepted and embraced by others, the less they become our responsibility to promote or enforce.
Lest you think this is pie in the sky, consider there has been no major or world war in almost 75 years, the number of democracies has increased substantially in those years, as has global health, wealth, longevity, and in a particularly interesting development, the odds of your being killed by a fellow human on a per capita basis is at it lowest point ever, and by a large factor.
HA! DID YOU FORGET WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BOSNIA?
it was a pretty major war for Yugoslavia
I believe antonio was speaking on general principles as was I, nor would that change my position on what I thought a positive development.
Ok but if there was ever a place where particular facts took precedence over disembodied “general principles” I would say it is Serbia.
Which is precisely why I can’t join in the Professor’s celebration of this queer demonstration in “Bosnia”
Let me interpolate a few remarks in caps
SARAJEVO, Sept 8 (Reuters) – Several thousand people marched in Bosnia’s first Gay Pride on Sunday, protected by a major security operation including anti-sniper units after some conservative Muslim groups organised counter-rallies.
(LIKE HOMOSEXUALS IN JAIL THEY NEED A LOT OF GUARDS BECAUSE PEOPLE DON’T LIKE THEM)
The parade in the capital Sarajevo ended peacefully despite fears of violence prompted by aggressive hate speech online in a country where anti-gay sentiment can often be heard in public.
(HATE SPEECH: WHATEVER A EUROCRAT SAYS IT IS)
More than 1,000 police officers secured the event, shielding the walking area with fences and concrete blocks. Anti-sniper units were placed on the roofs of buildings along the main route in the city centre. (TAXPAYERS PAYING FOR LOTS OF MUSCLE TO PROTECT “HUMAN RIGHTS”)
Bosnia is the last Balkan country to hold a Pride parade, seen as a test of tolerance of minority rights as it seeks to join the European Union. EU diplomats and the U.S Ambassador to Bosnia, who is gay, joined the march in support of LGBT people. (LAST ONE BECAUSE THEY ARE MAJORITY MUSLIM AND MUSLIMS HAVE NOT SUCCUMBED TO ALL THE SOCIALLY-DEFORMING ASPECTS OF MODERNITY)
“This is an important step in the protection of the fundamental rights of all citizens in Bosnia and Herzegovina, including of LGBTI persons, who have the right to live their lives free from discrimination, abuse and threats…,” Johannes Hahn, the EU enlargement commissioner, said in a tweet. (EUROCRAT CADRE CHECKING IN)
(THEY CALL HIM “BIG JOHN” THE “ENLARGEMENT” SPECIALIST, HE HAS A LINE OF PUMPS AND PILLS FOR SALE ON THE INTERNET)
BIG STEP FORWARD
Organisers from across the ethnic divide – in a country that went through a devastating war in the 1990s – carried a pink banner with the slogan ‘Ima Izac’ or ‘I Want Out’ in both Latin and Cyrillic scripts.
Activists carried placards reading “Love is not a Privilege” and “Queer Resistance”, waving rainbow flags and singing anti-fascist songs.
(FASCISM = WHATEVER EUROCRATS WANT IT O MEAN KIND OF LIKE HATE SPEECH)
(MAYBE THE BOSNIAN MUSLIMS ARE NOT OK BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE NATIVES OF EUROPEAN SOIL? HELP ME FIGURE THAT OUT)
“We, LGBTIQ persons, fight every day for our existence, identity and love,” said Branko Culibrk, an organiser, adding that passivity of institutions in Bosnia, where discrimination against minority groups is legally banned, had encouraged violence from homophobic groups.
(WHAT’S THE IQ STAND FOR? I CANT KEEP UP WITH ACRONYMS)
Earlier on Sunday, several hundred opponents of the Pride march held a peaceful meeting and a walk, carrying placards condemning homosexuality. On Saturday, several conservative groups organised another march devoted to “traditional family values”. (TRADITIONAL ENCLOSED IN QUOTES BECAUSE THE AUTHORS WANT YOU TO FEEL THAT IT’S BAD AND WRONG)
Homophobia and discrimination, often fuelled by religious leaders and right-wing political parties, is widespread in the Balkans. (LEFT WING EU-BUREAUCRATS HATE DEMOCRACY WHEN IT THREATENS THEIR MANDATES AND BUDGETS)
All religious communities in Bosnia condemned the Pride parade but advised followers against resorting to violence. (AN IRONIC MOMENT OF UNITY BETWEEN CATHOLICS ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS– WOW NORMALLY THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING YES?)
Many famous Bosnian artists also attended the parade, including music star Bozo Vreco, known for wearing dresses and acknowledging his desire to express both the male and female sides of his personality.
(BOZO? LIKE BOZO THE CLOWN? FROM CHICAGO? HMMM REMINDS ME…. WHO WAS THAT OTHER FAMOUS CLOWN FROM ILLINOIS? OH, JOHN WAYNE GACY, A HOMOSEXUAL CLOWN PEDERAST WHO RAPED AND MURDERED NUMEROUS YOUNG MEN. SHAME ON ME FOR STATING FACTS)
Mr Kurtz – shame on you, John Wayne Gacy never admitted to having sex with the men he killed. And given the condition of the corpses, there was no way to prove that he did. And, although he used his magic acts to subdue, cuff and torture his victims, he never did it his clown make-up. John Wayne Gacy was a fine, upstanding member of the DNC and had his picture taken with Mrs. Carter.
“the odds of your being killed by a fellow human on a per capita basis is at it lowest point ever, and by a large factor.”
Not in America it isn’t. We barely count 1/10th of the murders in this country. And no, I am not talking about abortion.
We barely count 1/10th of the murders in this country.
This is a fantasy.
No it isn’t. We undercounted murders in the United States by well over 50,000 last year.
Let me explain. Last year, I think there were nearly 64,000 people who died of drug overdoses. Those are just the overdose deaths. The sale of those drugs is a crime. A felony. What do we call it when someone does because of a felony? Felony Murder. Now legally, there are some issues that have caused that kind of death not to be prosecuted as “felony murder.” Intervening causes for one. But in some states, it is still felony murder.
But, we count other kinds of murders as “murders” whether they are prosecuted or not. For example, Ray Ray gets capped in the head and dies, but his murderer is never found and thus never prosecuted. But is it still counted as a murder??? Yep.
So here we have a 64,000 dead-people gorilla in the room that we simply ignore.
Maybe things are changing:
David Benson is the God Emperor of Making Stuff Up and owes me twenty-five citations (one from the OED, one from the town ordinances and two from the Old Testament), an equation and the source of a quotation, after forty-three weeks, and needs to cite all his work from now on. – Squeeky made her point. You were just to dim to get it.
The stupid one is unable to recognize agreement.
David Benson is the God Emperor of Making Stuff Up and owes me twenty-five citations (one from the OED, one from the town ordinances and two from the Old Testament), an equation and the source of a quotation, after forty-three weeks, and needs to cite all his work from now on. – Just because you did not get Squeeky’s point, does not mean the rest of us did not.
You still reading this off your phone? You might want to have one of the “smart” students read it for you and maybe they can explain it to you, if you don’t get it. Students are back on campus, right?
Henry Kissinger said Americans are constitutionally incapable of seeing themselves as others see them.
Yes, but the way others see them are commonly a bizarre caricature (and also a component of exercises in recrimination and self-aggrandizement).
That having been said, it is quite gratuitous for the Foreign Service to be fretting over whether or not sexual deviants in Sarajevo are at home staging one of these parades. The Ambassador should be recalled and put on desk work where he doesn’t have any authority over other employees.
Turley’s point seems to have been missed here. Bosnia has showin its government is committed to protecting even wildly unpopular human rights.
Those snipers on rooftops waiting for religious radicals to attack people for at worst being obnoxious, are Hobbes’ Leviathan putting the strong arm of the State at the service of free speech and the right of people not to be attacked for being loudly different. Of course, the sort of people who will maim and kill people they just don’t like will bide their time and commit their assaults in parking lots outside bars.
But Bosnia showed how moderate Muslim countries can handle really difficult social questions. That they were able to do this at ail was thanks to NATO, led by the US, lending not only military might but expertise in policing modern countries in the 1990s-early 2000s to the people of Bosnia and Sarajevo and creating a place where you don’t have to belong to a particular religion for the government to work for you.
so sac. 😕
Todd Palin files for divorce from former Alaska governor Sarah Palin
Todd Palin appears to have filed for divorce from former Alaska governor and one-time vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin, his wife of 31 years.
In a document filed Friday in Anchorage Superior Court, Todd Palin, 55, asked to dissolve the marriage, citing an “incompatibility of temperament between the parties such that they find it impossible to live together as husband and wife.”
The divorce filing uses initials rather than full names, but identifies the couple’s marriage date and the birth date of their only child who is a minor, Trig Palin. The filing asks for joint legal custody of the child.
Anchorage attorney Kimberlee Colbo is representing Todd Palin in the divorce. In a filing, Colbo said she would ask the court to designate the divorce confidential as it moves forward.
Colbo did not immediately respond Monday to a request for comment from Todd Palin.
Sarah Palin, 55, was elected governor of Alaska in 2006.
The Palin family rocketed to national prominence in 2008 when Republican presidential nominee John McCain chose Palin as his vice-presidential candidate, making them household names and focusing the country’s attention on their hometown of Wasilla.
The marriage of Sarah and Todd, a commercial fisherman, snowmachine racer and oil field worker, was frequently on display in TV interviews, reality shows, books and other media appearances.
Palin resigned as governor in 2009.
Since leaving office, Sarah Palin has kept a low profile in Alaska politics, while maintaining a national profile through her books, speaking engagements and social media presence.
The divorce filing was first reported by Anchorage blogger Craig Medred.
That’s quite unusual for a marriage of that duration. Even more unusual is that he’s the one filing. It would be agreeable if he thought better of it. You kinda wonder if all the attention has been a curse on the two of them.
Freedom is good.
People must adapt to the outcomes of freedom. Freedom does not adapt to people, dictatorship does.
The American Founders provided maximal freedom to individuals while they severely limited and restricted government. Free people can decide for themselves the level of support they provide any individual or group in their free lives and in the free markets of the private sector. Morality and charity are industry conducted in the free markets of the private sector.
There will always be successes and failures. You deal with it. You don’t write laws that regulate it. There must always be trash men and sewer technicians. Legislative bias and favoritism are unconstitutional. Anti-discrimination laws are discrimination. Laws against racism are racism in reverse. Laws favoring LGBT are anti-normal laws. Opinion, discrimination and choice are constitutional rights and freedoms of Americans per the Constitution and Bill of Rights with emphasis on the 9th Amendment.
Laws that favor particular groups deny constitutional rights to all Americans. Biased laws provide false, contrived, spurious and illicit support. “Affirmative action privilege,” generational welfare” and all the other programs that redistribute wealth and dictate social engineering are unconstitutional and legitimate and valid only under the “dictatorship of the proletariat” of the totalitarian Communist Manifesto.
Bias and favoritism are incoherent and lead to incoherent laws. For example, the word “marriage” is derived from Mary, mother of Jesus and relates to motherhood. Matrimony is derived from the Latin “mater” or mother which relates to motherhood. Homosexuals have no possibility of engaging in motherhood. Homosexual marriage is semantically impossible and a perversion of language which extremists use to accommodate the anomalous perversion. Leave ’em alone. Let ’em live. Let ’em live with their perversion. Let ’em live with themselves. Homosexuals are not a constitutional or governmental issue.
The inmates have taken over the asylum. Abraham Lincoln seized power to “Save the Union.” President Trump must seize power to “Save the Republic.”
Freedom is good.
People must adapt to the outcomes of freedom. Freedom does not adapt to people, dictatorship does.
How are you? Fine I hope. I saw where you are going to let a bunch of stupid gays have a “pride” march. You need to reconsider. Because if you let them get their foot in the door, you will soon be facing stupid crap like this:
About 150 parents and pupils have staged a protest outside a secondary school over gender neutral uniforms.
Priory School in Lewes, East Sussex, made trousers compulsory for new and existing students for the new term.
The school said “concerns” had been raised over the length of girls’ skirts and new rules also catered for a handful of transgender pupils.
Protesters have said pupils should have a choice to wear skirts, while others believe clothes are being wasted.
Former Priory student and TV presenter Piers Morgan tweeted his support for the protesters saying the “gender neutral craze” was out of control and girls should be girls, and boys should be boys.
The Conservative MP for Lewes, Maria Caulfield, also tweeted: “Very disturbed to see the school turning away girls from Priory school because they choose to wear a skirt and calling the police on them.
“This is not how we should be treating the young women of Lewes.”
Squeeky – think how much warmer those girls legs are going to be in the winter.
True, but the boys will be colder. In a way. . . 🙂
Squeeky – at that age a mild wind will set the boys off. 😉
More confirmation that this blog is mostly populated by old people cursing at history as it passes them by.
You’re breaking character. David Brock doesn’t hire you to do that. You’re also horning in on Peter Hill’s turf.
People cursing gays do so for others to applaud them but when no one is looking, theyre gladly taking a service job from another man who might be interested
Since TIA is disabled, he likely cruises gay porn sites to live out his self-loathing cantankerousness and since no one would want to blow him
You are a sterling example of the cynical belief system probably brought about by one too many brief predatory sexual hookups. Now, you think everybody is as jaded as you. I knew an alcoholic like that once. He thought people who drank two beers were just like him, who pretty much stayed blitzed 24-7.
Hi, Peter. Unusually bitter today, arent’ you?
Remarkable demonstration of support for Bosnia’s NATO backed bureaucracy for free speech a thing which most people in Bosnia certainly do not believe in, in the first place. Well, I guess the Muslims will have to take the bitter with the sweet!
“free speech” has always recognized some limitations in law for expressions of sexual tastes. there are laws even in the most liberal societies limting sexual activity, marriage, and public displays of sexuality. Laws such as obscenity or laws against child pornography for example.
Free speech extremists want to ignore these limitations and constantly push the envelop against the morays of the majority. We see this happening in the US for many decades and now it’s in Bosnia too. The Hapless Muslims are strongly against homosexuality and guess what most Serbian Orthodox are again it too.
there is a tension between rights and democracy, is what all lawyers learn
sadly, “democracy” has come to be little more than a slogan for war, most of all because article III judges here will always re-define its limits in the last occasion, over whatever the legislatively elected people will say is law.
I will not join in this applause with respect to the blog host.
PS quite an irony that the biggest country which refuses to sanction “Gay Marriage” is the PRC China which although it s not a democracy at all, ironically, is actually steadfastly representing the tastes and morals of the majority of its Chinese people against the belligerent international gay lobby and its well funded “human rights” advocacy in every niche and corner
Kurtz, real Americans believe in the protection of minority rights. That’s the crowning achievement of our constitution.
Define ‘minority rights’.
The rights of minorities may not be limited by the will of the majority ad Kurtz seems to favor in his post.
Define minority rights.
They are the same as everyone’s rights.
Are you a recent immigrant?
Electoral College supporters approve your message.
The minority does not have a right to choose our elected officials.
The rights of minorities may not be limited by the will of the majority…
That’s the crowning achievement of our constitution.
The minority does not have a right to choose our elected officials.
Pretzel principles huh? So you’re against mob rule until you’re for it. I believe that’s written somewhere in the DNC platform.
Our democracy is built on the will of the majority, with minority rights protected. That does not mean a minority is meant to select our representatives and executive officers by having their votes count for more than other citizens. We are all to be equal at the ballot box and our enjoyment of rights, not superior to others.
This isn’t difficult Olly.
This isn’t difficult Olly.
It is Anon1, if you still believe our system is a pure democracy.
Our republic is built on the constitutionally-protected rights of all citizens and the rights of the individual states. They are democratically-elected to represent the House and the Senate, respectively. The legislative branch is designed to protect the majority interests of individuals in the House and the majority interests of states in the Senate in the law-making process. Because there is only one office elected to represent both the individual voter and the individual states, we have the electoral college.
If you believe the electoral college needs to be eliminated because it doesn’t guarantee a majority rule by individual voter, then you must also believe the Senate has to be eliminated. If you get rid of both, then you will end up eliminating any pretext of state sovereignty and the security of rights. Majority rule…Mob rule.
Olly, our country is a democracy. A republic is a subset within the larger group of democracies. Nothing in that suggests that a democracy or a republic is not intended to be ruled by majority – or plurality – of eligible voters or that some peoples votes are intended to be more valuable than others, which is what you are arguing.
The EC was not devised as a winner take all system. That is the prerogative unfortunately of the states, who after a short while figured out that their individual states power was greater under that system relative to other states, up and until all states do it, and then it’s wash. Too late then, it has since f..d up 4 elections, with 2 of them coming in the last 5 elections. No doubt you’d be chafing under the same bit if your ox had been gored, rather than fattened by these results, and you’d see the obvious problem.
By several accidents of history, there is a N and S Dakota, thus giving those 2 states as many senators as California, but with the combined population of San Diego, for example. The reflection of this in the EC is also unfortunate, though that alone has not caused our 4 unelected frauds and that is not the problem. The winner take all system is, and I favor the elimination of the EC, which represents no great constitutional principle – no, rule by a minority is not a principle in a democracy, though protection of their rights is – or at least an end to winner take all awarding of votes.
No doubt you’d be chafing under the same bit if your ox had been gored, rather than fattened by these results, and you’d see the obvious problem.
I probably would be if my ox had an R or a D on it. My ox has a (C) on it for Constitution, and it’s been heavily gored by the progressive R’s and D’s for the last 100 years.
Give me a break Olly, or are you going to pretend you were neutral in 2000 and 2016.
I’m never neutral on election day, or any day after that. I’m a constitutionalist.
Olly – for President, my final choice is whose finger do I want on the nuclear trigger. So far, Trump has been a great choice. For other offices I have other criteria.
I hear ya. For me, it’s all about the courts.
thieves are a minority. must we protect criminal syndicates of thieves? are their rights of association “Equal” to ours?
the property rights of homosexuals were never protected better in any nation than they were in America, pro- “gay marriage” dictate from the SCOTUS. nor were their individual rights of life and liberty.
their “Right” to marry was a social fiction, made up by a tiny handful of clever lawyers imposing their will on a democratic majority. Obergefell the name of the judicial legislation, and not a single Congressman voted on it! Just our SCOTUS tyrant lawmakers.
i would contend there was a more serious basis for Roe V Wade than there is for gay socalled marriage, given that a woman has a very real interest in physical self deterimination from any perspective, and that runs into trouble vis a vis an unwanted fetus, because of normal biology just makes it that way for every woman. so at least a very large number of women have a problem with their pregnancy which seriously and realistically is at odds with the fetal right to life. This is not an imagined problem it is very real one that will always persist so long as nature dictates that women carry babies in their bodies.
by contrast nature does not dictate that men must sodomize each other. see this is how I can see Roe V Wade, as more legitimate than Obergefell, even though I question Roe V Wade’s legitimacy too
homosexuality is a niche issue for a small number which invokes the interest of homosexuals in their peculiar activities and their socalled right to have their domestic partnerships called “marriage,.” The difference is often just nomenclature. The whole thing was not even close to the level of “popularity” that abortion had or has among a large number of citizens at the time the SCOTUS judicially wanded it into positive law.
DEMOCRACY: A GREAT EXCUSE FOR WARS ON FOREIGNERS, often “unconstitutional” when it’s practiced in the USA
Mr Kurtz – the thieves used to have a guild, if they organized and formed a guild again would we be forced to recognize their existence?
Whatever your reasons Kurtz, your emotions on this issue are clouding your thoughts to the point of incoherence. Why don’t you gather them and try again?
PS Being a minority – “thieves” – does not confer protected status or rights in it’s support. You are seriously confused.
We, we, we,. Who is “we” and “our” etc etc? It all depends on “what” and “why” and “when”
and who is “the minority” anyways?
One day maybe “we” will have some “minority right” that “we” can also successfully impose on the reluctant majority if “our” interests are implicated, as successfully as the tiny homosexual minority was able to impose its radical social changes on “Us”
“we” will be big supporters of minority rights– anytime “we” find ourselves in “The minority!” See how that works?
This is why the Left loved Heidegger and his thinking has made them strong. His focus on the particular facts of existence, being, rather than disembodied notions and universalism, allows those who implement his thinking to likewise focus on what is happening now, and not be too tied into cognitive pretzels by universalistic principles that will often operate only to restrict those who righteously and yet foolishly self-delimit by them.
The Left as it exists today NEVER worries about consistency or hypocrisy.
There’s a straight line running from Martin Heidegger to Donald Trump. Hallelujah!
>> However, the fact remains is that a gay pride parade was held in a majority Muslim Balkan country. That is worth celebrating.<<
Why? Explain why promoting homosexuality is worth celebrating. Sure, it's great for homos to be put on a pedestal and turned into celebrities, but how does that lead to a strong society?
There's a good evolutionary reason why for thousands of years humans were mostly socialized away from engaging in homosexuality. Until about the 19th century infant mortality rates were very high. Infants who did survive often died in early childhood from diseases, starvation, exposure, war, etc. and were never able to procreate. Sexually mature adults had to produce several offspring to increase the chances that two of the children would survive to adulthood, replace the parents, and procreate themselves. If you don't procreate, then you are not contributing to the strength and survival of the social group you were born into. It's logical and rational to see why homosexuality was discouraged.
I don't understand the argument for promoting, or "celebrating" homosexuality. I don't want homosexuality criminalized again. I don't want homos treated unfairly. And I certainly don't want them attacked, either verbally or physically. Homosexuality is an aberration. It ought to be tolerated and ignored, not celebrated.
I'd like to read a thoughtful essay from you explaining why celebrating and promoting homosexuality is a good value that leads to a stronger society. Again, I get why it's good for individual homos, but I don't get how it leads to a stronger, better society. Don't cite the value of "tolerance of the other". I've already stipulated it should be tolerated. It's the celebration part I don't get.
Amen! There is a very good article here, about why we should not celebrate gay nonsense:
Reason Number 3 was really good:
“Third, and finally, I do not celebrate LGBT pride because there is an agenda attached to it.
In other words, this is not just a matter of me appreciating LGBT people as people, or recognizing their accomplishments for the sake of their accomplishments.
Instead, to celebrate LGBT pride is to recognize and embrace a larger cultural agenda.
As I explained in 2011, “the legitimizing of homosexuality as a perfectly normal alternative to heterosexuality also requires that all opposition to homosexual behavior must be delegitimized. At the very least, the gay agenda requires these three platforms (and let recognized gay leaders renounce this if it is not so).
“Whereas homosexuality was once considered a pathological disorder, from here on those who do not affirm homosexuality will be deemed homophobic, perhaps themselves suffering from a pathological disorder.
“Whereas gay sexual behavior was once considered morally wrong, from here on public condemnation – or even public criticism – of that behavior will be considered morally wrong.
“Whereas identifying as transgender was once considered abnormal by society, causing one to be marginalized, from here on those who do not accept transgenderism will be considered abnormal and will be marginalized.”
And remember, I wrote this in 2011. (In fact, I wrote this several years earlier, but these comments were not published until 2011.)
Again, from the LGBT viewpoint, LGBT pride is all about coming out of the closet. It’s about saying, “We’re just as good and as gifted and as normal as anyone else, and rather than being ashamed of our LGBT identity, we are proud of it. The days of being mistreated are over. That’s what LGBT pride is all about!”
Again, I understand these sentiments, and if it was a matter of caring for people as people, I’d march side by side with them.
But it’s not just that. It’s about creating new categories and foisting them on the society. It’s about celebrating something that should not be celebrated. It’s about a larger agenda.
For those reasons, I do not celebrate gay pride, even though it makes be a hateful bigot in the eyes of many LGBT people and their allies.
That saddens me, but that doesn’t change my convictions.
June remains just another month on my calendar. It is not marked off for LGBT pride.”
We have to put up with you committing sodomy on these pages with your anal explosive episodes, at least gays douche prior.
You however would do well to at least carry an enema bottle to spare us of your excrement laden rants
Then again we see you elsewhere referenced the Christian Post. Rather rich considering you swing that millstone better than most
You seem nice.
You do not know whereof you speak. If your average gay man can’t be bothered with putting on a condom, think of how many are not going to take the time to “clean” themselves anywhere near the time of the actual act. After all, that takes away all the “spontaneity”.
Scott, did you become straight due to a” promotional”? Did you get a free stay at a resort with it, or like virtually everyone, was your sexual orientation set early and without your conscious ascent?
If the latter, perhaps you can understand that those of a homosexual orientation like to celebrate their recently acquired acceptance by most in modern society and their resultant freedom to no longer need to hide an unchangeable and foundational fact of their being.
As to the benefits to society, count among them the resultant full lives available to a significant if minority of it’s citizens and their new found ability to form long term familial relationships. Families as the building block of a nation as individuals with strong support are more productive and more law abiding.
On the other hand, what’s the harm and why would anyone object? Superstitious belief systems should not be expected to provide the justification for governmental action, nor are sexual orientations considered changeable by purr best science. Do you think you could be convinced to not be straight? I know I don’t that is possible for me, and the best science agrees with that.
Who the F says it is “unchangeable”??? Lots of gay dudes raise families and go “gay” when their wives are no longer pretty. Lost of lesbians are LUGs, lesbians until graduation. De Blasio’s wife was supposedly a lesbian – once. And my goodness but bi-sexuals – what are they when they can flip back and forth.
Squeaky I suggest you educate yourself. Our best science says it is not changeable.
I also suggest you reflect on when you “decided” your orientation and how likely it is you could be talked out of it.
“Research has identified several biological factors which may be related to the development of sexual orientation, including genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure. No single controlling cause has been identified, and research is continuing in this area.
Although researchers generally believe that sexual orientation is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences, with biological factors involving a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment, they favor biological models for the cause. There is considerably more evidence supporting nonsocial, biological causes of sexual orientation than social ones, especially for males. Scientists do not believe that sexual orientation is a choice, and some of them believe that it is established at conception. Current scientific investigation usually seeks to find biological explanations for the adoption of a particular sexual orientation. Scientific studies have found a number of statistical biological differences between gay people and heterosexuals, which may result from the same underlying cause as sexual orientation itself.”
Lots of footnotes and references if you want to get in the weeds.
I truly do not doubt that some people are born messed up. For example, the mentally retarded, people with autism, and people with physical deformities, or other conditions. And some homosexuals.
But what does that have to do with an ability to change?
FWIW, I read some stats once that there are more ex-gays, than gays. I will try to find that.
there are bisexuals,who will eventually move on to one habit or another. And there always have been, however famous they are a very small number.
Preference is usually along a spectrum, with most people at the hetero end, a small number at the homo end, and a smaller smattering in between along the way. This was well known among wordly people through history backwards into antiquity. We did not need “scientists” like Kinsey (who was bisexual) to tell us so. But he did, of course.
I recently learned that the famous sex scientists Masters and Johnson ran a homosexual conversion clinic that claimed a 71% success rate
see, Schwartz, MF; Masters, WH (1 February 1984). “The Masters and Johnson treatment program for dissatisfied homosexual men”. American Journal of Psychiatry. 141 (2): 173–181.
the whole matter is discussed waaaaay too much worldwide. It is not a significant life issue for 19 out of 20 people or even less. That this subject is now the acid test for “tolerance” etc etc is an example of how feckless public debate has become.
i find it amusing that often the people who are interested in “climate change” which may indeed represent a very serious threat for a large number of people worldwide over the coming decades, are also interested in “gay rights” which is a subject of small consequences for most people by far; and a social subject that only preooccupies the West
“gay rights” has very little truck in most of Asia or Africa and the populated equatorial regions, which are probably the places that will be affected by climactic change. How do the leftists resolve this in their heads? I don’t know. I asked a young lady who was lauding gay rights recently what she thought of the Communist Chinese Party’s position against “Gay rights” and she was dumbfounded. OF course she did not know what the world’s most successful self proclaimed “Communist” regime maintained on the topic until I told her. I, a knuckle dragging Neanderthal Trumpist Old White Guy; and she, a savvy young university student. It was an amusing moment for us both, I am sure.
It seems to me that the trendy Left is fake and full of hypocritical inclinations.
The thing about gay sex is that anybody could do it. Most of those lesbian chicks in porn flicks are not lesbians. They do it for the money. Plus, I do not think all gays are made the same way. I think a lot of them are turned that way by abuse by an older male.
But they whole “they can’t change” spiel is nonsense. Too many ex-gays for that to be true.
Anon1` – our best science says there is no “gay gene” so why can it not be changed?
What a bunch of crap! People marching around to say how proud they are of committing sodomy and other weird sex stuff. Ewww! What’s next, a Peeping Tom Pride Parade, or The Hairy Palm Brigade prissing down the street??? The nuts have earned an Irish Poem!
An Irish Poem by Squeeky Fromm
Alas! Where is shame among Gays!
Who pretend to be proud of their ways!
I guess wankers, and freaks,
Who sneak unwanted peeks,
Are the next losers seeking our praise!
Squeaky. unless some very handsome people are involved and I’m drunk or something, I try to refrain from imagining other people performing sex acts. No offense, but you fall in the latter category as well.
Try it sometime.
Well, the problem is, the freaks will not let you NOT think about them and the nasty stuff they do. Have you ever seen pics from a Gay Pride Parade??? A bunch of damn freaks, the lot of them.
Squeaky, acknowledging basic rights does imply your approval of the excesses of anyone. May gay people are very conservative and would no more shake it in your face than your grandmother would. Those who do? Ignore them or have them arrested if they violate public decency laws. That’s not the same thing as denying them basic rights.
Squeeky – Pedophiles are trying to be added to the Pride Parade. The Amazing Desmond wants to put the P in the alphabet community (as Dave Chappell) calls it. Now, considering Desmond’s age, that is down right creepy.
I am not surprised. After all, they are born that way, and therefore it is normal.
Americans can take particular pride in the fact that our ambassador, who is gay, joined the parade.
Again, we live in the age of stupid, where a law professor can tell us with a straight face that an appointed diplomat’s personal problems and deficit of professionalism are a ‘source of pride’.
You know, when you are not living in “Statistics World”, you are a very cogent individual!
DSS, I was immediately thinking the same thing and what shocked me most was was Turley’s excitement over our diplomat’s appearance at the parade. What would have made more sense for the professor to talk about would have been that freedom of speech prevailed in that nation.
Given that Turley is, multiple times a week, complaining that Trump said something outre (i.e. something some conventional Republican pol wouldn’t have said), you’d think he’d take an interest in a Foreign Service officer making a spectacle of himself in the course of making gratuitous commentary on domestic policy in Bosnia. But noooooooo. As far as judicious assessment of public affairs, the professor probably scores above the 90th percentile of the American professoriate. He still lives in a bubble.
Foggy Bottom, so called because its location alongside the Potomac made it susceptible to dense concentrations of fog and industrial smoke, refers not only to that neighborhood of Washington, DC, but also to the State Department itself. (Some would say that moniker is all-too appropriate.) In this feature, we will try to dispel that fog and smoke and cast light on some of the lesser known aspects of the State Department and diplomatic history. (For a brief history of U.S. diplomatic history, check out this segment on US diplomacy.org)
Gays in the US State Department haven’t been news since the FDR administration. Our ambassador to Germany Richard Grenell’s being “out” has nothing to do with his undoubted ability to represent our nation to others.
The real news – and Professor Turley is right on that count – is that in a Muslim-majority country like Bosnia, the government isn’t the sockpuppet of people who really don’t like gays. Bosnia’s one Muslim country with a decent chance of not being a willing base of operatiions for ISIS and other violent Islamist groups.
Our ambassador to a Muslim majority state is a homosexual?
How does that help the United States?
He should be immediately fired and replaced by someone with normal inclinations and a conventional life that will not have an adverse impact on the diplomatic interests of the US
How can this selfishness from one homosexual pride diplomat turned activist from “Foggy Bottom” be praiseworthy?
Fr. Paul Shaughnessy, SJ offered some time ago the opinion that diplomatic services are collecting pools of homosexual men. I think at one time known homosexuality was disqualifying for an aspirant FSO or intelligence officer.
So i was told. You could not get certain security clearances if you were homosexual for fear of blackmail by foreign actors.
Nonetheless, certainly the british had a lot of them among their spy cadres. Some who were double agents. Anthony Blunt, the names are out here. Bet they still do
it can only be an improvement considering the contempt heterosexuals have historically shown towards their marriage vows, their children, their extended families and their gleeful practice of divorce, abortion, co-habitation and disgust for organized religion. In fact, you’re a frequent hater of Pope Francis.
What is it that you do exactly that brings you to these forums day after day, hour after hour, when not cursing your wretched Facebook feed? Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the sick, evangelize in the pubic square, much? Nah, we didn’t think so either
you’re a heckuva example of that splendiferous traditional Katholic screed.
I got a stalker. Chuckles.
There remains much work of course.
The only work there is is maintaining law, regulation, institutional practice, and common manners in such a state that these pests live their own lives and don’t make an obnoxious nuisance of themselves to the rest of the population. It sounds like Bosnia’s moving in the wrong direction.
The professor always reminds you that the faculty and the bar have an almost uniformly negative influence on the culture.
I would guess that a majority of lawyers had nothing to do with legalizing and normalizing homosexual special rights. I had nothing do with it. it comes from the top. The TOP is the SCOTUS. “We” are not a democracy. “we” lawyers do not elect them. And “we” are slaves on their professional plantation in which they are the masters who pass the “Rules of professional conduct.
We can have our licenses pulled if they don’t like how we so much as say a bad word against gays– even in our spare time
Yes, to put it differently, a lawyer can be disciplined on “His or her” license for saying words like “sissy” poofter” etc use your imagination. I will skip case citations but they are out there. RPC 8.4 is the usual source of such actions to punish politically incorrect lawyers. And the very “Free Speech” that we protect for other people is no recourse for us.
I’m operating under the assumption that the appellate judiciary and the law professoriate manifest in purified form tendencies to be found in the bar generally, but least prevalent in the bar’s rank-and-file.
I think you are correct.
In our society, politically correct opinions are required early and often, as in, during law school, where otherwise they try to shunt you off to the second or third tier, whether your grades and talent merit it or not.
The key thing is that the High Table of today strictly wants yes men with zero political alliances which emerge from strong personal convictions. Political alliances that are strong for associational and non-philosophical reasons are acceptable. But usually, having a strong opinion about anything besides sports will DQ most budding lawyers from positions of lasting intellectual importance like appeals level state judgeship, article III positions, or law school tenureships. I am sure that there are such persons out there hidden undercover in various higher echelons but to make it that far it probes that they have shown strict self discipline over saying anything fierce to anyone.
I could say my best law school professors were liberals but that would be kind of redundant. They all were as far as I could tell and the only ones in doubt were over 70 years old at the time. Now i also had a couple ACLU type professors who were actually fantastic teachers and lawyers. I remember them actually welcoming some of my more intemperate opinions, back in the day. Now I doubt there is much latitude for young people who do not affect the verbal habits of the elites.
One of the most conservative law school regimes of the postwar era was run by Dean Clarence Manion of University of Notre Dame, who actually was a Democrat. If there was ever an ardent anti-communist, it was he. You can be sure once he was gone, that place took the usual turn to towards “moderation.” He was known however to have said some things back in his day that would have got him disbarred today.
when i ponder this aspect of social advancement, I am reminded of the work of Cuddihy. From wiki:
“In No Offense, a critique of American civil religion, Cuddihy argues that Catholic and Jewish intellectuals in America gave up the distinctive religious claims of Catholicism and Judaism, respectively, in the interests of not offending the Protestant majority. Cuddihy views various intellectual critiques of modernity – both conservative and radical – as the product of resentment against the more successful, enlightened, Protestant majority.”
Define “special rights”.
the rights homosexuals got legislated into law by the SCOTUS judicial tyrants in the case named OBERGEFELL
Why can’t normal heterosexual polygamists acquire these same judicially manufactured rights to plural marriage, too? ie Polygamy. We have serial polygamy already.
King Soloman had many wives and a lot of normal decent Muslims do these days too, worldwide. Oh, and there’s a lot of them living here today.
You could make an argument I think that prohibiting PLURAL MARRIAGE is religious discrimination against Mormons and Muslims.
I think that case is COMING. We will see if you are behind it or not. I can live with it for my part. And per my thinking it will be a lot less socially harmful than the “recognition” of homosexual “domestic partnerships”
Oh, Professor Turley wrote about that, if I recall., Maybe someone can look it up.
Kurtz, no one has the right in the US to marry multiple partners. If you favor that, make the argument, but equal rights is not legitimately one of them.
This could go either way, I only hope for the best.
“Safe space”? By allowing a group who hold opposing views to gather in public where face recognition and other surveillance techniques may be employed, a more comprehensive body of identifying data may be composed and employed to persecute them in the future. The downside of demonstrations in Bosnia and any other authoritarian locale.
I hope the parade goes safely.
I hope the parade is cancelled.
Wish that our censors were as tolerant.
Witness San Francisco and the NRA.
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