The release of the transcript of the conversation of President Donald Trump and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy falls a quid short of a pro quo but still raises troubling questions. As I have discussed on CBS and BBC, the transcript shows that Trump never expressly tied military aid to the “favor.” However, he does push his counterpart to reopen the investigation and even promises to put together a call with his private counsel Rudy Giuliani and Attorney General Bill Barr. However, the Justice Department has released a statement that Barr was not informed of the call by Trump and never spoke with the Ukrainians. While Republicans have called the release of the transcript as a mistake, I believe credit again should be given for the waiver of executive privilege. As with the Mueller report, the White House erred on the side of transparency and that should be noted. There remains a serious question for Congress to investigate but the transcript does not establish the quid pro quo that is practically needed for a compelling case of impeachment.
As I discuss in my column today, the transcript contains some positive elements for Trump. Yet, the subject of the call is deeply troubling and, at a minimum, shows appalling judgment on the part of the president.
The Democrats however will need far more than the whistleblower to make this case. They will need a witness who can tie Trump to a direct linkage between the military aid and the push for an investigation. There is no question that using public office for personal benefit would constitute an abuse of office and an impeachable offense.
There remains considerable skepticism that Pelosi is truly an impeachable convert. The Speaker can still effectively kill impeachment by pushing issues into court and letting the clock run out. The problem is that Democratic voters are clamoring for an actual impeachment and Pelosi may find it increasingly difficult to slow this train down.
I am on my way to Tampa to speak at the Biometrics conference, but will try to update with any developments on this fast moving story.
ha ha the nutters on twitter are projecting a “president pelosi.” really! they’re enraptured with their imagined outcomes. it’s trending! roflol
TRUMP TOTALLY OFF-BASE ON CROWD-STRIKE
IT WAS NEVER A UKRAINIAN COMPANY
Immediately after Zelensky mentions U.S. defense aid, Trump directly asks Zelensky for a “favor,” indicating such aid may be dependent upon Zelensky’s compliance. He launches into a request that Ukraine investigate the cybersecurity firm—CrowdStrike—that determined the Democratic National Committee had been hacked by Russia. This is a recurring obsession for Trump—the fact that the DNC did not provide its server to the FBI to examine independently. Trump told the Associated Press in 2017 that he thought CrowdStrike was “Ukraine-based” and “owned by a very rich Ukrainian.” The firm was actually founded by a Russian-American, Dmitri Alperovitch, and is based in Sunnyvale, California.
Edited from: “How To Read Trump’s Wild Phone Call With Ukraine’s President”
Today’s Politico
Transparent Trump provides view into the mind of the mad.
At least he is not a warmonger.
“Transparent Trump provides view into the mind of the mad.”
*********************
Luckily we get that insight every day here. Carry on, I’m taking notes.
And that’s a FACT!!!
Indeed, mespo, we are not far from the madding crowd……🦄
Madding doesn’t mean what you think it does.
If Benson actually knew what Hardy meant, he would get off his lazy a** and explain it.
Since Benson does not know what Hardy meant and will not bother to find out, we get the usual one sentence drivel from him.
https://www.bartleby.com/101/453.html
https://www.britannica.com/https://www.britannica.com/biography/Thomas-Gray-English-poet/Thomas-Gray-English-poet
Anonymous – thanks for Grey’s poem. It has been a long time since I have read it.
Mr. Schulte,
Hope I didn’t steal Benson’s thunder if he was about to provide an explanation, and citations😉 about Gray, Hardy, and the phrase “far from the madding crowd”
Anonymous – Benson does not know the meaning or where it came from.
Anonymous….You probably figured out that I was going for just the word “madding” not the context of the poem.
It was meant to be a light hearted allusion.😊
Cindy Bragg – does your husband know you are “sleeping” with an English Lit major? 😉
Paul C LOL! he figured it out!
Cindy Bragg – Well, I hope the two of you can work it out. Divorce can be so messy. 😉
Paul C………….divorce is messy and exhausting. We don’t care for one, thank you😃After almost 48 yrs, I think we can stick it out …….LOL
P.S. Hubby refuses to practice family law……too depressing
Cindy Bragg – I follow a lawyer on YouTube who refuses to do family law for the same reasons. He does mostly criminal and will and trusts.
Ms. Bragg,
The origins of the phrase “far from the madding crowd” may even predate Gray.
In the context that Gray used it, he was talking about the dead and buried.
It’s been a long time since I read the Hardy book…..saw the film first with Peter Finch, Julie Christie, and Alan Bates…..then read the book, but it’s been years ago.
I don’t remember Hardy using the phrase and theme the way Gray did. It may have been more of about pastoral setting of his novel than the “far” departed.
As you said, the usage of the phrase can have different meanings, depending on the context.
So it does mean “what you think it means”, in spite of a prior claim to the contrary.
Thank you, Anonymous…..a nice, thoughtful cmment
David Benson is the God Emperor of Making Stuff Up and owes me thirty-eight citations (one from the OED, one from the town ordinances and two from the Old Testament), an equation and the source of a quotation, after forty-four weeks, and needs to cite all his work from now on. -1) how do you know it doesn’t mean what he thinks it does and 2) what is your definition of madding (a source will be required) [I have already added it to the number of citations you owe me]
“Madding = frenzied, out of control, acing madly”
In other words, never-Trumpers.
acting
Cindy Bragg – acing madly works, too. 😉
Paul C …….😎
Prof. Benson,
I am not now, nor have I ever been, an English Lit. major.
……although, I am currently sleeping with one.
His favorite class ” Victorian Philosophy and Thought ‘.
Cindy:
You know “Hubby” and I are kindred spirits. Though not an English major, I love the Victorian Era poets with Macaulay and Tennyson being particular favorites. Essayist, playwright and genuinely funny guy, Oscar Wilde, was no slouch either:
Then out spake brave Horatius,
The Captain of the gate:
“To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds
For the ashes of his fathers
And the temples of his gods
~Macaulay, from “Horatius at the Bridge”
mespo.
You indeed are kindred spirits! I’ve always been impressed with your recall of great literature, etc. I probably told you that through the kindness of hubby’s Eng prof. years sgo, we were introduced to a Tennyson offspring, and were given a wonderful oil portrait of Sir Charles and Lady T, which hangs over our mantel here at Chez Bubba. Book a tour now! LOL
(for all the would be burglars out there, it’s not a valuable piece, except to us)
P.S. mespo…………..Wouldn’t it have been a real kick to have met Wilde?!!
It would be a hoot and if you see somebody slinking around your house dressed in black with a mask on looking for that painting, tell Hubby to shoot to wing. It’s me!
mespo…..LOL… you’re a scream.
Hubby wanted me to tell you that he used his favorite Tennyson line in a closing argument in a nursing home abuse case……..” So runs my dream, but what am I, a child crying in the night, a child crying for the light, and with no language but a cry”…..
Cindy Bragg – see if your husband can work in a line from Lawrence Ferlinghetti. Johnny ran through screen door summers with a patch on his ass. 😉
Cindy:
So good and so apropos. Pass onto him my favorite poem about the parental solitude we all deserve but which the world sometimes intrudes upon. It reads like a blessing. It’s by Samuel Taylor Coleridge and from his poem, “Frost at Midnight” which I heartily recommend:
𝐷𝑒𝑎𝑟 𝑏𝑎𝑏𝑒, 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑠𝑙𝑒𝑒𝑝𝑒𝑠𝑡 𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑙𝑒𝑑 𝑏𝑦 𝑚𝑦 𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑒,
𝑊ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒 𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑙𝑒 𝑏𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑠, ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑑𝑒𝑒𝑝 𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑚,
𝐹𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑢𝑝 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑒𝑑 𝑣𝑎𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑐𝑖𝑒𝑠
𝐴𝑛𝑑 𝑚𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑎𝑟𝑦 𝑝𝑎𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ𝑡!
𝑀𝑦 𝑏𝑎𝑏𝑒 𝑠𝑜 𝑏𝑒𝑎𝑢𝑡𝑖𝑓𝑢𝑙! 𝑖𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑙𝑙𝑠 𝑚𝑦 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑡
𝑊𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑔𝑙𝑎𝑑𝑛𝑒𝑠𝑠, 𝑡ℎ𝑢𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑙𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑒,
𝐴𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑘 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑢 𝑠ℎ𝑎𝑙𝑡 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑛 𝑓𝑎𝑟 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑙𝑜𝑟𝑒
𝐴𝑛𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑓𝑎𝑟 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑠𝑐𝑒𝑛𝑒𝑠!
(…)
𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘴𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘴 𝘴𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘣𝘦 𝘴𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘦,
𝘞𝘩𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘮𝘮𝘦𝘳 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘳𝘢𝘭 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘩
𝘞𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘦𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴, 𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘥𝘣𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘴𝘪𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨
𝘉𝘦𝘵𝘸𝘪𝘹𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘵𝘶𝘧𝘵𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘯𝘰𝘸 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘣𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘣𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘩
𝘖𝘧 𝘮𝘰𝘴𝘴𝘺 𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘭𝘦-𝘵𝘳𝘦𝘦, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘭𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘪𝘨𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵𝘤𝘩
𝘚𝘮𝘰𝘬𝘦𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘯𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘸; 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘦𝘷𝘦-𝘥𝘳𝘰𝘱𝘴 𝘧𝘢𝘭𝘭
𝘏𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘥 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵,
𝘖𝘳 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘵 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘴𝘵
𝘚𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘶𝘱 𝘪𝘯 𝘴𝘪𝘭𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘴,
𝘘𝘶𝘪𝘦𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘦𝘵 𝘔𝘰𝘰𝘯.
I quoted it in a tragic wrongful death case involving the loss of an infant to illustrate the grief every parent must feel. Isn’t it what we all wish for our children?
Mespo,
The Coleridge poem brought to mind one by Theodore Roethke, “Elegy for Jane–My Student, Thrown by a Horse”
An excerpt:
“My sparrow, you are not here,
Waiting like a fern, making a spiny shadow.
The sides of wet stones cannot console me,
Nor the moss, wound with the last light.
If only I could nudge you from this sleep,
My maimed darling, my skittery pigeon.
Over this damp grave I speak the words of my love:
I, with no rights in this matter,
Neither father nor lover.”
Thanks PR for the reading tip. I’m on it.
mespo……..thank you for the Coleridge…..sounds like you are a sensitive, soul, too. I’m sure that was a powerful moment in the courtroom! The poem itself is jumbled on my ipad, unfortunately I can’t read it. Hub is asleep…..but when he wakes up tomorrow he will be able to read on his computer, and so will I…….He will be so touched by it, I’m sure! Y’all are kindred souls.
“……..thank you for the Coleridge…..sounds like you are a sensitive, soul, too”.
****************
As Hubby knows, in our business you have to understand the human condition,
Mespo– Thanks for the Coleridge poem. It brought to mind very powerfully dreams for one’s child and in your case the tragedy of those dreams dashed. I cannot imagine no longer doing trial work. There is no place else I know of where the unfiltered “human condition” is there for all to see and for a chosen few of us to have a chance to do something to make it better. I do promise that if I see someone in black and a mask walking off when our portrait of Sir Charles and Lady Tennyson, I will aim for one of the lesser body parts.
Ooh ooh! I’d like to book a tour!
PS Only if Mespo is there as well 😉
PPS And Paul Schulte 🙂
PPPS And Enigma just to add some excitement to the convo 🙂
PPPPS And Natacha ?!!!
PPPPPS Sorry, Nuttychacha?? that’s a negatory.
I slipped. I know. 🙂
PPPPPPS Aaaand….Squeeky!!
PPPPPPPS and the whole dam blog!!! Partaaay at your house!!! 🙂 Ha!!
Did somebody call me???
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – BYOB?
Yes, Squeeky! Partay at Chez Bubba!!
Anonymous…….Sorry, I thought you were mocking me.
You’re all invited to a poetry recital!
For friends and poetry-philes, all cv’s and resumes should be sent to:
Bubba’s Tennyson Library and BBQ
Lake Omygawd, Texas
attn: Hilda Hornsacker,
Librarian
Anonymous – Oscar Wilde did speaking/reading tours.
Ah Paul. Yes, he did indeed. But alas, we’ve no invite to the “tour”…. so in the words of Tennyson…
“So runs my dream, but what am I, a child crying in the night, a child crying for the light, and with no language but a cry” 😉
Anonymous – If you are not too long, I will wait here all my life. Oscar Wilde
Ah yes, and always remember….”true friends stab you in the front.” 😉
Paul C. Re: Ferlinghetti…LOL!!! If hubby ever has a faulty screen door case, or faulty patches on britches, he will have a poetic closing, thanks to you!! 🤠
Oh! That is in one of my favorite little books, 101 Famous Poems! Along with that Henley(?) one:
Out of the pit that covers me
Black as the night from pole to pole,
I thank whatever Gods may be,
That I got out of that there hole!!!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – great poem
Thank you PaulCS!!! And that other one:
I must go down to the sea again
To the lonely sea and sky
And all I ask is a tall ship
And a star to steer her by.
Oh, and on Tennyson, I like that line from the Idylls where Guinevere says to Lancelot, “Arthur is too nice, a woman wants a little bit of the earth in a man.” Or something like that. Whatever, you get the picture.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – sounds like a good way to pick up a UTI
Squeeky….I love “Sea Fever”!!!! that poet was one of the poet laureates I believe.
A wonderful poem that must be read aloud to appreciate!
Squeeky……Invictus! Love it… Another favorite!!
I have the same book and teach it to my grandsons…….Look up Day is Done by Longfellow.
I think you’ll like it. Its wonderful
I just ordered another copy to keep beside my bed. Leather bound, used at $3.99. Tons of them on abebooks.
You know, another good collection is the one called World Poetry by William Cullen Bryant. It is pretty cheap, too, but has a great selection:
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/library-of-world-poetry-cwl-complete-works-library-series_william-cullen-bryant/1207941/?mkwid=GRt9lfay%7cdc&pcrid=70112859672&product=12712997&plc=&pgrid=21517256472&ptaid=aud-376656233455%3apla-293099308689&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_content=GRt9lfay%7cdc%7cpcrid%7c70112859672%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7c%7cproduct%7c12712997%7cslid%7c%7cpgrid%7c21517256472%7cptaid%7caud-376656233455%3apla-293099308689%7c&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5rbsBRCFARIsAGEYRweY_I-_VpLrixfAf7TD1e8iyW-bH3hMvlP48gNFpnoPdYdU1usyQC8aAkWLEALw_wcB#isbn=0517294591&idiq=12712997
You can find it in leather for about $12 or so.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squueeky…….very kind of you…..I’ll check it out.
I’ve heard that somewhere decades ago. I liked it & shared what I thought was the meaning a few times.
… Get behind me Satan…
Oky1……good to see you!
Hi Cindy,
I’ve had you, your husband in my prayers among many others.
( Get ready for winter now, I’ve been watching the signs & now tonight I’m seeing a forecast.)
A talker I’ve been but now at times I noticed I’ve slowed up & lost for words at time.
I care a lot about people.
NPR had a fair show on recently high lighting country music which we love here.
It’s the words & tunes we find ourselves lost for.
This is one they left off.
Oky1…..Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.So very kind! The song is beautiful with a profound message, imo…..Hope you and your wife are well!
Or, not far from the Maddow crowd???
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Trump winning the election in 2016 was an impeachable offense.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ukraine-transcript-fizzle-11569455303
The Ukraine Transcript Fizzle
The phone call evidence isn’t enough to annul a presidential election.
Sept. 25, 2019 7:48 pm ET
The White House on Wednesday released the transcript of President Trump’s July call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, and the news is that Mr. Trump was telling the truth about it. The conversation was largely routine diplomacy, and even the reference to Joe Biden was less than promoted by the press. Good luck persuading Americans that this is an impeachable offense.
The five-page transcript shows that Mr. Trump called to congratulate Mr. Zelensky on his party’s victory in Parliament. After niceties, Mr. Trump waxes on as he often does that the U.S. “spend[s] a lot of effort and a lot of time” on Ukraine, while complaining that European countries don’t do their share. At no point does Mr. Trump threaten a withdrawal of U.S. aid to Ukraine.
Mr. Trump does ask for a “favor”—that Ukraine look at 2016 election meddling. “I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike,” he says, referring to the company that investigated the 2016 hack of the Democratic National Committee.
He also disparages former Special Counsel Robert Mueller—no surprise there—and notes that “they say a lot of it started with Ukraine.” Mr. Trump is clearly still sore about the attempt by the Hillary Clinton campaign to dig up foreign dirt on him, but there is nothing wrong with asking a foreign head of state to investigate meddling in U.S. elections.
Only after that does Mr. Zelensky mention Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, who has been publicly urging the Ukrainians to investigate Joe Biden and his son Hunter’s activities in Ukraine. Mr. Zelensky says he is “hoping very much” that the former New York mayor comes to Ukraine. He promises that all “investigations will be done openly and candidly.”
Mr. Trump responds, “Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that’s really unfair.” After some praise for Mr. Giuliani, Mr. Trump adds that “there’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution” of corruption in Ukraine. Mr. Trump also says that he intends to get Mr. Giuliani and Attorney General William Barr to call, and he asks that Mr. Zelensky work with them.
That’s it. No quid pro quo. The references to the Bidens are in the context of fighting corruption, not as a prerequisite of U.S. aid. Mr. Trump was unwise to mention Mr. Biden, but the tenor of the conversation is congenial. It’s amusing to hear the same critics who call Mr. Trump an oafish thug on a daily basis now say this was all a subtle masterpiece of extortion. When is Mr. Trump ever subtle?
Democrats are making much of Mr. Trump’s references to Attorney General Barr, which were also imprudent in the Biden context. But the Justice Department says nothing came of it, that Mr. Trump never asked Mr. Barr to make that call, and Mr. Barr has never communicated with Ukraine, or with Mr. Giuliani about Ukraine.
Mr. Trump certainly was reckless to use the former New York mayor as an anti-corruption envoy, or for anything else. Rudy is an unguided missile on TV and can’t be much better in private. The Justice and State Departments have plenty of people who can work with Ukraine on corruption.
Keep in mind that all of this came to public attention because of a leak about a whistleblower complaint from the intelligence bureaucracy. The accusation is that Mr. Trump somehow attempted to cover this up, but it looks on the evidence released Wednesday that the Administration acted by the book.
The complaint went to the intelligence community inspector general, who found it credible and deserving of submission to Congress under the whistleblower statute. But the director of national intelligence general counsel rightly sought legal guidance from the Justice Department Office of Legal Counsel, which is the authority on executive branch legal obligations.
The White House on Wednesday released OLC’s legal opinion that the inspector general was wrong because Mr. Trump is not a member of the intelligence community and that a “routine diplomatic call” does not count as “intelligence activity.”
Meanwhile, Justice says its Criminal Division evaluated the IG’s August referral that the phone conversation could be a violation of federal campaign finance law. A Justice Department statement said the Criminal Division determined there was no “violation” and that “all relevant components of the Department agreed with this legal conclusion.” In other words, no laws were broken. The IG will testify to Congress, so we can compare his case to the Justice Department’s.
***
If Democrats want to pursue impeachment on this thin gruel, then Americans should also consider the process by which this became a national political crisis. First a whistleblower who is still unidentified brings a complaint based on what he heard about a President’s phone call. By the way, the OLC memo says in passing that the IG’s review acknowledges “some indicia of an arguable political bias on the part of the Complainant in favor of a rival political candidate.”
Then the IG makes a flawed legal judgment that Congress must see the complaint. When his argument is rebutted, word leaks to the press, Congress cries coverup, and suddenly we are putting the country through another impeachment upheaval.
Is anyone else troubled that this is all it takes to impeach a President? If a bureaucrat who dislikes a President can trigger a complaint based on hearsay that forces the disclosure of presidential diplomacy, the conduct of foreign policy will be severely hampered. Democratic Presidents won’t be spared once Republicans figure out how this works.
Mr. Trump’s refusal to abide by the normal guardrails of presidential decorum is often offensive. It can also be risky—for himself and U.S. interests. We have often criticized him for it. But impeaching a President is voting to annul an election, and that should require far more evidence than we have from this Ukraine phone call.
Democrats may not be able to stop themselves now that Speaker Nancy Pelosi has joined the impeachment parade. But the voters should ask if impeachment on these terms will do far more harm to American democracy than Mr. Trump’s bad judgment.
Favor was re Crowdstrike and 2016 election, not Biden. It was the Ukrainian pres who brought up Biden. Love your honest assessments, JT, but you did not get this one squarely correct. Check out KS at WSJ for succinct summary.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/wsj-journo-shreds-attempt-take-out-president-after-transcript-release
So what Turley is saying is that if you are a politician and brag about committing a crime, you should just run for President, It makes you off limits if you are running against the incumbent…wow.
For the FBI, read “Disrupt, Discredit and Divide” by former agent Mark German.
I have read some of Mark German’s essays at Brennan center and i think i have book somewhere in my stuff that he wrote, which had some interesting material in it. I can’t quite remember what, i think he was part of operation patcon and infiltrated the cobra kai militia or some other crazy group.
I like some of the things he says. Some. Some things I don’t.
But the other day i was listening to another agent talk about how he was a longtime FBI agent and one of the few true undercovers and even as he had great success was also unfairly accused, eventually exonerated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6FNHush2Lw
He doesn’t like Comey much. that’s near the end of interview.
My opinion: a lot of the things FBI does are laudable day to day policing of interstate crime, they do a lot of legit counterintelligence too.
they sometimes go too far with informants and infiltrations and targeting and snooping and other stuff that begins to erode civil liberties
worst of all as we have seen, they tarnish the agency by pursuing overtly political agendas,
that agent suggests that Comey was too political and tarnished the agency. you can listen.
SqueeKKKy just demonstrated Poe’s law.
Perhaps it’s time we get the FBI’s Behavioral Sciences Unit to create a profile of the typical Serial Politician. These politicians have the power to destroy life, liberty and property and yet people trust them like those that trusted John Wayne Gacy and John Leonard Orr. And what mental illness exists in those that celebrate when one or more of these serial politicians seek to destroy the lives of others merely because of their political affiliation?
“Yet, the subject of the call is deeply troubling and, at a minimum, shows appalling judgment on the part of the president.”
*****************
Oh enough of the “troubling” stuff. The nation’s chief magistrate and executor of the laws asks for help of a head of state in investigating an international criminal enterprise and he’s in trouble because his potential political opponent’s son is involved? What upside down madness is this? What should he do? Ignore it when the former VPOUS is bought off to sack his prosecutor.
Squeeky’s Primer on Democrat IQs
1. Not all Democrats are stupid. Many are just liars.
2. When you subtract out the liars, the remaining Democrats are stupid.
Think about it like this. Was Joseph Goebbels stupid? Did he really believe from maybe mid 1943 onward that the Germans would win? No, of course not. Nearly the entire Nazi higher-ups knew the jig was up. Himmler was offering to kill Hitler if the the U.S. and Britain would take it easy on Germany.
So, why did Goebbels say the things he did? Because he was a liar, and that was his job. Plus, it bought him time to pile up wealth elsewhere, if he could escape.
BUT, if that was his job, then that implies that there were Germans who believed him. That his lies were that good.
That is the Democratic Party today. Some of the loud mouths are just liars like Pelosi, who knows there is no impeachable offense. And Nadler, and Schiff, and the MSM. And many of our own resident shills like Hill, Anon1, Natacha, and others.
They prey off the stupid Democrats. It keeps them in power. But OOOPSIES! There are more idiots in the Democratic Party than they imagined (actually, mentally ill is probably a better term. People with severe cognitive dissonance issues.)
The overwhelming mass of Democratic Party idiots have pushed the Lying Democratic Party Leaders into the impeachment issue. That is why nothing they do makes any sense. Why they swallow Biden-Hunter conflicts of interests and emoluments, but grasp about for some heinous act that Trump might have committed. Which to this point is telling the UKR President that he hopes they investigate the crooks.
So, remember this when dealing with the cretins here on this website. Some are stupid, and some are liars. I think most of them are liars. Enigma may be one of the few actual idiots here, assuming he is honest.
I hope this helps!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Don’t sell Schiff short- he can be stupid AND a liar.
as I suspected. Pelosi was pressured by the “left flank” and “the squad” — sad that she has caved in!
Dem leaders, felt they were in trouble with the base, whom they failed to educate about strategy, and now they’ve panicked.
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/24/impeachment-inquiry-donald-trump-nancy-pelosi/
Democrats here will find this very interesting. I don’t know half the folks they’re talking about in it. Maybe you do.
Explain to me this: do you think this play is a winner? get yourselves on record! when it backfires at least you will be able to say “i told you so”
Eventually, we’ll find out! Benson, “bookmark” this page for december 2020!
It’s going to be fun!
PS TULSI GABBARD on record to let the voters decide!
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/24/tulsi_gabbard_impeachment_of_trump_would_be_terribly_divisive_for_country.html
what a winner she truly is! what a class act! what a combination of brains, beauty and poise! what a patriot!
On the record. Without this play, Trump releases nothing ever and merrily obstructs his way to the end of the term. Now we get the transcript of the phone call, we get the whistleblower report (the full thing, not redacted, eventually if not immediately) then the House votes on impeachment and all the blocked witnesses and financial records are accessed. Trump in his press conference looked like a beaten man. A good look on him. Of course, he might start a war with Iran? Who would put it past him?
enigma – Trump is not beaten, he has had a few very busy days. He is a little tired. He was going to release everything before Pelosi decided the Democrats would help re-elect him. 😉
😃
Paul – He was going to release his taxes too…
enigma – I think Trump should show his when Nancy and Chuck show theirs.
Sure, require everyone in Congress to show their taxes every year. That doesn’t erase the fact Trump kept promising he would except for a vague audit he allegedly tried to influence. Just because Trump can say “transparency,” (though he probably can’t spell it), doesn’t mean he ever intended to practice it.
enigma – two things. 1) he is not required to show his tax and the members of Congress are not either. 2) Given the number of businesses he has he is probably continually under audit.
Paul, these guys do not understand what is on the tax form. They are totally ignorant of what it won’t reveal. I keep waiting to hear what they hope to find and they never say anything because they don’t know what they are talking about.
Allan – I would think that Trump’s tax returns is about 5 inches thick.
5 inches thick?
bbbwwwwwahahahaha. It’s been that long for you, huh, Paul? Even the Arizona cactus are looking pretty good to you, eh?
No more Viagra for you
TS – I only have a rental property and 3 incomes and my income taxes are thick enough. I am finally caught up, BTW. Oddly enough, the government doesn’t care if you don’t file if they owe you money. They are funny about that.
Bigger. You can bet on it.
add in the returns of the entities he controlled as an executive prior to election and it’s as big as a house.
He promised on multiple occasions that he would provide his taxes once an audit was complete. Are we to believe that no audit has been completed for any year? Do we even know he’s actually under audit? Nixon provided his taxes while under audit (and was found to have made what we shall generously call errors in his favor). My point is that his promise to provide his taxes was a lie. That has been proven beyond a doubt by his multiple lawsuits against his banks, his accountants, and various other entities to keep hidden what is needed to investigate both criminal and civil complaints. Your assertion he intended to releae the transcript and the whistleblower complaint is wishful thinking.
enigma – as a businessman, his taxes are private. He is NOT required to produce them. He has 500 businesses, so that would make an audit very awkward. I worked on just part of an audit of an insurance company and we had 50 people working 40 hours a week for 5 months on one section of the audit, the 20% of that crew became proof-readers for the next 5 months. I am not sure how many people are being thrown at the project.
He blatantly lied about that and now thousands of other matters. None of your arguments dispute that.
So that’s your argument for why Americans should vote for the Dims: because a billionaire, who humiliated Hillary despite she outspending him x3, won’t show you his tax returns
Apparently being a realtor in Orlando is a sh!t hole career.
OC – Than’s not an argument I have put forward. I don’t find his failure to provide his tas returns disqualifying. I do think his many lies on the that subject and almost every other to be so.
I see you’ve done your research on me and can confirm you have the right person although I haven’t been a Realtor in some time you you can update your stalking records. You might refer your findings to some of the other members here who have argued against me that I’m not black, assuming your research indicated that as well. Should you require any other facts; height, age, weight… all you need do is ask.
You’re stuck in an old news thing. On this thing, he’s been super transparent. You got your phone memo, you got your whisteblower complaint. You guys are never satisfied.
Keep up the good work. You are making it clear to John Q Public what we have known for years. That this is all about power, and if you guys have the power you will use it against us to effect. We have to adapt to survive. That was ever Nature’s law, anyways.
John Q Public just has to pick sides now. That’s all. Enough talk. The talk is going to be between camps and their backers only now. Dialogue is over. Every Republican better toe the line and firmly stand behind the President, or they’re done. Any Republican defections are going to be punished harshly. This is not coming from above this is coming from below.
Vote for the impeachment and run it up to the Senate. Let’s find out how this ends.
Independents and fence sitters are going to have to hop down and fast. There’s a battle coming and anybody between the shield walls will get trampled. Middle of the roaders: don’t look to us for help if we lose and you sat on the sidelines.
Thank God above for this moment of transformational opportunity.
Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah.
He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death.
But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.
The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea:
That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same.
Psalm 68
“On this thing, he’s been super transparent. You got your phone memo, you got your whisteblower complaint. You guys are never satisfied.”
He released nothing he wasn’t forced to. The pressure from Republicans who realized his position was untenable was what forced him. He couldn’t keep saying his phone call was “perfect” and refuse to let anyone know what was said. Even then he had no plans to release the whistleblower complaint until it became clear the whistleblower him or herself was going to meet with Congress anyway. As in other matters, he tried to get ahead and release information tht he knew was coming out anyway and put his spin on it.
What is alleged in the whistleblower complaint is that the records of the call were “locked down” and removed from regular storage places and put on a secret server. Several names beyond William Barr and Rudy Guiliani were named and subpoenas are already being prepared. Democrats already have the votes now in the House for a formal Impeachment vote and yes it’s inevitably going to happen. Then the floodgates open for all the committees to get the information the “transparent” President has been going to the mattresses trying to protect, particularly surrounding his finances and taxes.
The amazing thing is that Fox News is going to be part of his downfall. They coverd in full the hearing with the DNI Director, they’ll cover the news that everyone else is covering that speaks for itself. Yes their commentators will offer the best possible spin on things but after all the years of talking about Hillary Clinton’s server, they have no excuse for Trump hiding his records. Their main points today; the Democrats jumped the gun, the whistleblower had second-hand information, They aren’t saying the information isn’t true and hasn’t already been documented.
Trump himself is claiming that Democrats is keeping legislation from getting done. “We can’t get anything done on guns,” when it’s his own indecision and the $30 million he got from the NRA which keeps anything at all from getting done (plus Mitch McConnell refusing to bring anything passed to the floor).
As I’m writing this, Trump has just threatened the whistleblower and anyone who talked to him, labeling them as “spies.” Suggesting they should be dealt with like they were in the old days. His attempted reign of terror now extends to his own staff. Let’s not forget when he was confiscating staff cell phones and forcing lie detector tests.
My real concern is that as a final distraction, we’re going to war with Iran… or Venezuela, or maybe even California. The man views his own self-preservation as the nation’s highest priority.
You’re probably right about people on the sidelines. As more information comes out, I have to believe no one will be any longer.
The likelihood of a war involving Iran was increased many magnitudes by Obama. Among a whole host of other things Iran used the money given by Obama to build nuclear weapons and to promote terrorism.
Enigma, thank you for stating opinion! Try to remember this day, and maybe, God willing we are all alive come December 2020 and can measure the consequences in retrospect.
“Trump in his press conference looked like a beaten man.”
***********************
Contrary to Obama’s view, hope is not a strategy.
“Trump in his press conference looked like a beaten man.”
He looked a little tired because he has actually been working and making this country as well as the world better off. Your fears of Iran and war are realistic but augmented by the actions of Democrats that are more interested in their politics then running the nation. This latest accusation is another farce and no matter what Trump does the Democrats will keep finding things to charge him with even after he has been found innocent time after time. The people of the country need to look at this so 2020 leads to a Trump victory where Democrats are pushed out.
In the meantime we have to put up with people like Adam Schiff who constantly sounds mental and can only see conspiracy theories where Trump is concerned but can’t see outright Biden corruption in front of his nose.
Trump in his press conference looked like a beaten man.
That was interesting. Here’s one more from
back in March.
https://medium.com/discourse/trump-wont-be-the-2020-republican-nominee-725d9a3d7bc8
This is what happens when they all get a participation trophy.
So it is true…the MSM is an extension of the DNC.
From your Intercept link:
That something came later that night, in the form of a Washington Post scoop about a whistleblower complaint from a member of the U.S. intelligence community about a promise Trump had made to a foreign leader. Then, on Thursday evening, the Post reported that the country involved was Ukraine. From there, it didn’t take long to piece together what happened, capped off with confessions from both Trump and his attorney Rudy Giuiliani, the bagman for the operation: Trump had demanded that in exchange for U.S. aid, the new Ukrainian president investigate links between then-Vice President Joe Biden, his son Hunter Biden, and a scandal that involves the firing of a prosecutor and a natural gas company, on whose board Hunter was paid handsomely to sit.
The affair itself is not what it appears. By getting the prosecutor fired, Biden probably hurt Hunter’s company more than anything, but it looks bad enough. Indeed, Hunter Biden had no skills to offer the natural gas company other than his appearance of an ability to influence his father, whether he did so or not. Trump clearly saw leveraging it as to his advantage in the 2020 election.
Hard to believe a drug addict, womanizer, no skills Hunter Biden could command his earning but when it comes to the DNC Machine, even Hillary makes selling Uranium look profitable for Bill Clinton to earn millions in speaking fees to say nothing of importance
The Dems put the pro in quid pro quo
Sux to be Biden right now
😉
Estovir – we knew during the Obama administration that the NYT and WaPo were wings of the DNC.
Granma. When we got to America we wanted to believe Americans did it better: democracy, political stability, work, freedoms, capitalism and the news media.
That was then, this is now. America has fallen and the communists in this country did this….nobody wanted to believe us when we told Americans in the 70s and 80s that the communists were doing their version of golpe de estado, coup d’état.
well we we right.
Washington Post, NYT, CNN…..are Granma
“The Dems put the pro in quid pro quo” I love this and I may steal it!
If only the Dems would be smart enough to advance Gabbard as their candidate.
She’s managed to qualify for the next debate.
Anonymous, you are asking someone to be smart enough? Is the pot calling the kettle black?
7:26 comment is in response to Mr Kurtz’s comment that follows:
https://jonathanturley.org/2019/09/25/transcript-trump-asks-for-favor-in-investigating-the-bidens-but-stops-short-of-a-quid-pro-quo/comment-page-2/#comment-1885091
Sure Kurtz, win, lose, or draw, the House has to move to impeach. I think they should have waited for the whistleblower complaint to be aired, but the released memo is sufficient cause. Trump was clearly using US the federal treasury to work the Ukrainian president. You have to be born yesterday to not see this It was extortion with other people’s money and a violation of campaign laws to boot.
I predict he’s gone and that at least 1/2 the GOP Senators already hate his guts and at the 1st sign will run him through. Nixon had more friends.
Democrats Wrote to Ukraine in May 2018, Demanding It Investigate Trump
https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/5-4-18%20Menendez%20joint%20letter%20to%20General%20Prosecutor%20of%20Ukraine%20on%20Mueller%20investigation.pdf
The Senators wrote the Ukrainian prosecutor over the fact that he was then stonewalling the Mueller investigation. The Mueller investigation was an official effort of the DOJ and the US Government, authorized by a Trump appointee. The letter from US Senators – who have a legitimate interest in government matters – was public and involves no threats, implied or otherwise.
The following excerpt doesn’t awaken Anon’s brain.
“The political pressure continued. Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion in crucial U.S. aid to Kiev if Poroshenko did not fire the country’s chief prosecutor. Ukraine would have been bankrupted without the aid, so Poroshenko obliged on March 29, 2016, and fired Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.
At the time, Biden was aware that Shokin’s office was investigating Burisma, the firm employing Hunter Biden, after a December 2015 New York Times article.
What wasn’t known at the time, Shokin told me recently, was that Ukrainian prosecutors were preparing a request to interview Hunter Biden about his activities and the monies he was receiving from Ukraine. If such an interview became public during the middle of the 2016 election, it could have had enormous negative implications for Democrats.”
The rest of the article is chocked full of more stuff but I think the above is enough and we all have seen Biden bragging on Youtube.
There was no exchange of money between Trump and Ukraine and he had a right and an obligation to seek out graft committed by public officials or their families especially when that public official was the vice president. Thie was the same pattern that happened with the Chinese corruption and monies have been tracked from Ukraine to Latvia to Cyprus and to the US. That is pretty typical of money laundering.
That won’t awaken Anon. He has No Comment.
My brain is never awakened by unattributed accusations from true believers like Allen.
Here’s what happened, from the WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/timeline-of-trump-ukraine-bidens-story-11569095501
and Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-07/timeline-in-ukraine-probe-casts-doubt-on-giuliani-s-biden-claim
Both relate VP Biden’s efforts on behalf of the US government as well as virtually all our western allies and the IMF to get the Ukraine to clean up it’s corrupt act so developmental aid would not go down a rat hole there. Despite whatever self serving BS Shokin offered up later, he was doing nothing about corruption and this was noted by the West and the citizens of the Ukraine, who staged protests against him.
“My brain is never awakened by unattributed accusations from true believers like Allen.”
*******************
That’s obvious. I guess your flavor is the “true believers” in the Press.
https://www.thewrap.com/fake-news-fears-95-of-americans-troubled-by-current-state-of-media-poll-finds/
Happily you’re one of the blissful 5% believing just about anything a guy with a press credential dribbles onto a computer screen.
Here are some more questions from Senator Paul. Can Anon answer them? No, but if he tries he will refer us to articles that don’t answer the questions.
—
“For one, is there really something wrong with making aid contingent on behavior? Shouldn’t it be made clear to the new Ukrainian president that our aid is contingent on them not being corrupt?
Shouldn’t we want the European Union to send their fair share of aid instead of our government taking more and more resources from the American taxpayer?
Shouldn’t we want to get to the bottom of what Ukraine knows, including lingering details from the Russia investigation?
Shouldn’t we want to know why a foreign oligarch suspected of corruption was paying the then-sitting vice president’s son $50,000 a month?
Shouldn’t we want to know why the former vice president — on video — bragged about getting the prosecutor fired who was tasked with investigating that corruption?
How is it okay for Vice President Biden or Democrat senators to threaten aid to Ukraine but somehow impeachable for a president to allegedly do so?”
No, Anon. We don’t go to your library list. Here is just part of the information. Deal with it. Tell us what is true and what is not true.
“The political pressure continued. Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion in crucial U.S. aid to Kiev if Poroshenko did not fire the country’s chief prosecutor.
Ukraine would have been bankrupted without the aid, so Poroshenko obliged on March 29, 2016, and fired Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.
At the time, Biden was aware that Shokin’s office was investigating Burisma, the firm employing Hunter Biden, after a December 2015 New York Times article.
What wasn’t known at the time, Shokin told me recently, was that Ukrainian prosecutors were preparing a request to interview Hunter Biden about his activities and the monies he was receiving from Ukraine.
If such an interview became public during the middle of the 2016 election, it could have had enormous negative implications for Democrats.”
5 simple statements that you either can reply to. …Or are you just spewing junk?
Anon1:
“The Senators wrote the Ukrainian prosecutor over the fact that he was then stonewalling the Mueller investigation. The Mueller investigation was an official effort of the DOJ and the US Government, authorized by a Trump appointee.”
**************************
Duh, where do you think the “Trump appointee” derives his power to make something “official”?
Anything the POTUS does — personally or via surrogates –in enforcing our laws against bribery (or anything else) is “official.” That includes asking for an investigation of anyone. Blood connections to a political opponent aren’t grounds for immunity from prosecution.
BTW, the OLC has ruled that a request for an investigation by an elected government official isn’t a thing of value to his/her campaign. But who needs law, you’ve got moral outrage!!
Legitimate question: Do you practice law? If so, what specialty?
Mespo, you and other’s conviction that the president and his lackeys have ultimate authority to do whatever he wants will come back to bite and probably not far into the future.
Enjoy.
No, I am a builder. Someone close to me is an AUSA.
Talk to him/her about how the government works. The POTUS is the Executive branch of government. He conducts foreign affairs, runs the military, enforces laws and runs his departments. That’s black letter law. He’s not the most powerful man in the world without reason.
Anon1:
“No, I am a builder. Someone close to me is an AUSA.”
*****************
So was my father and my uncle. I’ve got nothing but respect for what you do (I’ve carried block and climbed ladders with shingles), but I wouldn’t tell my father or uncle how to pour a footing just like they wouldn’t tell me how the Constitution works.
Mespo, neither footings, the constitution, or laws are beyond the abilities of intelligent humans – and especially citizens to understand. Plenty of people successfully build their own houses and vote for candidates based on their understanding of our founding documents and changing laws. You may defer to me on things like concrete psi and sizing rebar and I to you on precedents and procedure, but the basics of each are understandable to most citizens willing to learn. With the Constitution, that is much of the point.
Anon, actually it is more difficult than that and that is why the Supreme Court doesn’t have a unanimous approval on all issues.
We have statutes that can be interpreted broadly or narrowly. That is difficult to prevent but what we are seeing is that where a Republican is concerned the statutes are interpreted so broadly they almost become laughable but for a Democrat they are interpreted narrowly and sometimes the operative portions of the crime are forgotton.
That is a problem that you refuse to deal with and that is why you forget about Hunter Biden and the actions of Senator Menendez and two others when they wrote their letter to the Ukraine leader. There has been a continuous effort to find something to impeach Trump over. That is why Nancy Pelosi’s speech didn’t even wait until the transcript of the discussion was released. That isn’t good for the nation because Democrats are attempting to bend laws for political aims and that can destroy our Republic.
Anon1:
All authentic constitutional interpretations are valid but not all are of the same quality. That’s the point.
of course regular people can read and are entitled to opinions as citizens.
nonetheless, it may help to have some input from scholars.
the humble honor of “doctor of laws” entails a lot of study in constitutional law.
it helps to understand why this is a mountain out of a molehill.
and an impeachment effort that will end in failure for its advocates.
but time will tell.
TIA, refrain from posting private information, that is if you have any decency left.
TIA, refrain from posting private information, that is if you have any decency left.
Decency? You never quit striking the most absurd poses, do you?
Since your son’s collecting a government salary, presumably appears in court regularly, and has a LinkedIn profile, I’m not seeing how his employment history is ‘private’. And you brought it up, putz.
Anon, do you think DSS is the only one that knows that?
he must have been a decent parent if he produced a high attaining kid like that. very impressive to me at least.
it’s best not to publish personal information or else people will just stop commenting and it wont be fun anymore
“No, I am a builder. Someone close to me is an AUSA.”
Anon are you trying to tell us proximity to a lawyer makes you an expert on the law? Thank you for my morning laugh.
construction is a worthy trade. it’s nice you have friends
to the point: Trump is the ultimate CLEO of our nation
he’s executing his office and was fully within his authority
Let’s get real: Democrats were first to enlist Ukraine in US elections
Earlier this month, during a bipartisan meeting in Kiev, Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) delivered a pointed message to Ukraine’s new president, Volodymyr Zelensky.
While choosing his words carefully, Murphy made clear — by his own account — that Ukraine currently enjoyed bipartisan support for its U.S. aid but that could be jeopardized if the new president acquiesced to requests by President Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani to investigate past corruption allegations involving Americans, including former Vice President Joe Biden’s family.
Murphy boasted after the meeting that he told the new Ukrainian leader that U.S. aid was his country’s “most important asset” and it would be viewed as election meddling and “disastrous for long-term U.S.-Ukraine relations” to bend to the wishes of Trump and Giuliani.
“I told Zelensky that he should not insert himself or his government into American politics. I cautioned him that complying with the demands of the President’s campaign representatives to investigate a political rival of the President would gravely damage the U.S.-Ukraine relationship. There are few things that Republicans and Democrats agree on in Washington these days, and support for Ukraine is one of them,” Murphy told me today, confirming what he told Ukraine’s leader.
The implied message did not require an interpreter for Zelensky to understand: Investigate the Ukraine dealings of Joe Biden and his son Hunter, and you jeopardize Democrats’ support for future U.S. aid to Kiev.
The Murphy anecdote is a powerful reminder that, since at least 2016, Democrats repeatedly have exerted pressure on Ukraine, a key U.S. ally for buffering Russia, to meddle in U.S. politics and elections.
And that activity long preceded Giuliani’s discussions with Ukrainian officials and Trump’s phone call to Zelensky in July, seeking to have Ukraine formally investigate whether then-Vice President Joe Biden used a threat of canceling foreign aid to shut down an investigation into $3 million routed to the U.S. firm run by Biden’s son.
As I have reported, the pressure began at least as early as January 2016, when the Obama White House unexpectedly invited Ukraine’s top prosecutors to Washington to discuss fighting corruption in the country.
The meeting, promised as training, turned out to be more of a pretext for the Obama administration to pressure Ukraine’s prosecutors to drop an investigation into the Burisma Holdings gas company that employed Hunter Biden and to look for new evidence in a then-dormant criminal case against eventual Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, a GOP lobbyist.
U.S. officials “kept talking about how important it was that all of our anti-corruption efforts be united,” said Andrii Telizhenko, the former political officer in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington who organized and attended the meetings.
Nazar Kholodnytsky, Ukraine’s chief anti-corruption prosecutor, told me that, soon after he returned from the Washington meeting, he saw evidence in Ukraine of political meddling in the U.S. election. That’s when two top Ukrainian officials released secret evidence to the American media, smearing Manafort.
The release of the evidence forced Manafort to step down as Trump’s top campaign adviser. A Ukrainian court concluded last December that the release of the evidence amounted to an unlawful intervention in the U.S. election by Kiev’s government, although that ruling has since been overturned on a technicality.
Shortly after the Ukrainian prosecutors returned from their Washington meeting, a new round of Democratic pressure was exerted on Ukraine — this time via its embassy in Washington.
Valeriy Chaly, the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States at the time, confirmed to me in a statement issued by his office that, in March 2016, a contractor for the Democratic National Committee (DNC) pressed his embassy to try to find any Russian dirt on Trump and Manafort that might reside in Ukraine’s intelligence files.
The DNC contractor also asked Chaly’s team to try to persuade Ukraine’s president at the time, Petro Poroshenko, to make a statement disparaging Manafort when the Ukrainian leader visited the United States during the 2016 election.
Chaly said his embassy rebuffed both requests because it recognized they were improper efforts to get a foreign government to try to influence the election against Trump and for Hillary Clinton.
The political pressure continued. Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion in crucial U.S. aid to Kiev if Poroshenko did not fire the country’s chief prosecutor. Ukraine would have been bankrupted without the aid, so Poroshenko obliged on March 29, 2016, and fired Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.
At the time, Biden was aware that Shokin’s office was investigating Burisma, the firm employing Hunter Biden, after a December 2015 New York Times article.
What wasn’t known at the time, Shokin told me recently, was that Ukrainian prosecutors were preparing a request to interview Hunter Biden about his activities and the monies he was receiving from Ukraine. If such an interview became public during the middle of the 2016 election, it could have had enormous negative implications for Democrats.
Democrats continued to tap Ukraine for Trump dirt throughout the 2016 election, my reporting shows.
Nellie Ohr, the wife of senior U.S. Justice Department official Bruce Ohr, worked in 2016 as a contractor for Fusion GPS, the same Hillary Clinton–funded opposition research firm that hired Christopher Steele, the British spy who wrote the now-debunked dossier linking Trump to Russia collusion.
Nellie Ohr testified to Congress that some of the dirt she found on Trump during her 2016 election opposition research came from a Ukrainian parliament member. She also said that she eventually took the information to the FBI through her husband — another way Ukraine got inserted into the 2016 election.
Politics. Pressure. Opposition research. All were part of the Democrats’ playbook on Ukraine long before Trump ever called Zelensky this summer. And as Sen. Murphy’s foray earlier this month shows, it hasn’t stopped.
The evidence is so expansive as to strain the credulity of the Democrats’ current outrage at Trump’s behavior with Ukraine.
Which raises a question: Could it be the Ukraine tale currently being weaved by Democrats and their allies in the media is nothing more than a smoke screen designed to distract us from the forthcoming Justice Department inspector general report into abuses during the Democratic-inspired Russia collusion probe?
It’s a question worth asking.
Anon1:
You’re wrong. The House doesn’t really need a sufficient cause. They just need a sufficient excuse. This isn’t one. But the bet has been made. We call the bet. You got the whistleblower complaint. Go ahead and vote the impeachment and quit dithering. Let’s run this along to its conclusion.
Which will be: failure to impeach, ie, acquittal, and reelection.
The longer you dither, the weaker and faker and phonier your leadership appears. And thank you for contributing in your own humble way to this historical opportunity to complete the transformation of the Republican party from a bunch of silkstocking country clubbers into a phalanx of real leaders with cojones. Right now all the leadership has a single choice: fully back Trump, and wear the crown of glory– or face the pitchforks.
So….now it’s a “favor” to help Trump politically. Here’s a what about for all you what about fans: Tell Mr. Putin I will have more flexibility after the election. Translation: Tell Vlad I need a favor. Tell him not to make waves before the election. It will help me politically.
What is wrong with you??? You are presuming that there is equivalence between Democrats and Republicans! How dare you! Just because a Democrat does the same thing or worse than a Republican is no matter. Stuff is right or wrong based on what party you are in. Didn’t you get the memo???
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
I do not recall Obama ever releasing the transcript of his phone calls with foreign leaders. Does anyone know of Obama doing so? I recall the obstruction and the AP complaining that Obama was the least transparent President in US history.
I support transparency, but not the harassment of a President from people who will not accept the result of the last election. I really hope this is not going to be their usual behavior. Every time we elect a Republican president, are we to spend all 4 years fending off constant false accusations and calls for impeachment in end run gambits?
Obama never tried to leverage military aid for the benefit of his campaign, and was never reported by a whistleblower for doing so. False equivalency.
No, Trump is not some poor widdle thing being harassed. He cheated to acquire the White House to “win the victory” in 2016, and he’s trying to do it again now. It is a Fox News narrative that this investigation is motivated because of not accepting the “result of the last election”. What we American patriots don’t accept is cheating with the help of a hostile foreign country.
Prove that Trump tried to leverage military aid. Otherwise, it’s just an emotional argument.
The Biden family stands accused of breaking serious laws. Of course Ukraine should look into it.
What? Can Democrats break any law they want because they are running against Trump, and any investigation would hurt their chances? By the same token, no Republican should be investigated, either. This is total garbage.
The law is supposed to apply equally, to everyone. The Bidens will either be cleared, or they won’t. But if they were a normal citizen, they would be investigated.
What I observed is that there was no quid pro quo in the telephone call transcript…so Democrats are now claiming that it was implied without any specific reference. You can’t wink, mime, or do interpretive dance over the phone. A just nation requires evidence, which does not seem to be a concern with activists. This is very troubling.
Impeach Kavanaugh! Oh, the alleged victim has no idea what they’re talking about? Can we impeach them without a victim? No? Dang.
Impeach Trump! Oh, there’s no evidence of a quid pro quo? Hold hearings and impeach him anyway! What a waste of everyone’s time and money that would be. Again.
There are legitimate criticisms of Trump’s presidency. I think it’s safe to say the man isn’t Jesus Christ. These continued false allegations, however, stink of sour grapes, and makes one less inclined to have a reasonable discussion of his mistakes and accomplishments.
Obama lied to the American people that if you liked your health insurance, you could keep it, and that he would save the average family $2500 a year. I would be very curious to read the transcripts of every one of his phone and email conversations that went into crafting the ACA. The public has the right to know what he knew, and when. As well as his discussion with Hillary Clinton on her illegal private server. As well as those about Benghazi.
Treat Presidents equally.
Obama did, in fact. He was referring to appeasing Putin by withholding the missile defense system from Poland, asking for their patience until after his reelection – a clear quid pro quo.
Hmmmm. Joe Biden brags about getting his son Hunter out of a corruption investigation by Ukrainian officials. Whom would you ask about this matter? Ukraine!
There is nothing wrong with Ukraine investigating this allegation, or with Trump asking about it, but everything wrong with demanding impeachment without evidence.
These constant false accusations are so tiresome.
Hunter Biden got kicked out of the military due to cocaine, and then proceeded to make millions using his father’s government contacts…but Democrats will threaten the President if he tries to find out what happened. It will be very concerning if any of the hard Left Democrat candidates take office. It really is too bad that you don’t see many Democrat moderates anymore. It seems to be a race as to whom can be the most extreme and dictatorial.
Professor Turley will be delighted to know that the “deeper thinkers” that pervade today’s college campuses want to see President Trump impeached even if there are no facts or evidence to support it. They “think” exactly as he does. Anyway, when it comes to leftist political ends, as Professor Turley has long espoused, facts and evidence are overrated.
James!
Look at me!
There are over 400 pages of documented details on Trump’s obstruction of justice and collusion with Russia during an election, and now a record of him offering protection to a president of a smallish country if he gets on the team. Ya know what I mean?
That’s impeachment level facts and evidence.
Ukraine is not a smallish country, if that’s what you’re talking about.
It’s massively important both for its agricultural bounty, other resources, and for its chokepoint location contiguous to Russia.
IT’s 33d among the nations of the world by population, at about 44 million– bigger by pop than Iraq, afghanistan, poland, and canada
it’s got 580 thousand square kilometers of land
Or were you talking about something else?
🙂
typical college students. scared as heck by their Political Commissars into repeating Inner Party line.
and too busy posting selfies on instagram to register to vote
their importance in the upcoming cycle can’t be under rated. LOL
Students have not learned critical reasoning, jurisprudence, or about our Constitution. This is what happens when the public education system has become so politicized that it produces true believers incapable of discussion, debate, or reason.
The Republicans are doing what they do best: throwing their own from the train to save their hides.
The Dems will win this one only because the Reps have no test_i_cles
panzies all of them
The Trump–Ukraine Transcript Contains Evidence of a Quid Pro Quo
By DAVID FRENCH
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-trump-ukraine-transcript-contains-evidence-of-a-quid-pro-quo/
I highlight the quid pro quo aspect of the transcript because the other published report — that Trump asked that Ukraine work with Giuliani to investigate Joe and Hunter Biden — is clearly and unequivocally established. The transcript provides proof that Trump made a completely improper request that the president of Ukraine work with Trump’s personal counsel to investigate a political rival. It provides strong evidence that this took place in the context of a quid pro quo for desperately needed military aid.
Trump Blasts Own Ambassador in Call With Ukrainian President
The U.S. president said he wanted to keep Kyiv honest. So why did he fire his ambassador after she called out corruption?
BY AMY MACKINNON, ROBBIE GRAMER | SEPTEMBER 25, 2019, 3:04 PM
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/09/25/trump-blasts-own-ambassador-in-call-with-ukrainian-president/
More word smithing. Why would there be any “executive privilege” attached to this conversation? Secondly, Trump didn’t have to expressly spell out, in actual words, “I’m going to hold up your military aid unless you manufacture fake evidence I can use against Biden.” This was only one of 8 calls to the Ukrainian President. What was the content of the other 7 calls? Any reasonable person would see that this amounts to nagging the Ukrainian President into reopening an investigation that had already determined no wrongdoing. Trump had already held up military aid when this call was made, which he had no authority to do in the first place, and then, he lied to try to cover up this offense by claiming that he was trying to pressure other countries into providing more military aid to Ukraine. Trump lied when he claimed that the US provides the most aid, but how does withholding aid to Ukraine work to pressure other countries into giving more? Doesn’t even make sense in Trumpdom.
Merely soliciting the assistance of a foreign government to manufacture fake dirt on a political opponent is enough to impeach, but Trump withheld military aid appropriated by Congress, so you have your “quid pro quo”. Even Turley admits: “There is no question that using public office for personal benefit would constitute an abuse of office and an impeachable offense.” We only differ in our beliefs as to whether the facts have been established. Turley is always willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt until Kellyanne can come up with some spin, pivot or counter argument. We already have the narrative: “Trump is a victim because those bad Dems, sore over losing the election that Trump won fair and square, just won’t quit making things up about him”. That dog won’t hunt anymore.
Turley goes to lengths to try to praise this Administration for “transparency”, but overlooks some disturbing facts: the whistleblower complaint was supposed to go directly to Congress. There is no provision in the law for the DOJ to vet the complaint first, so Barr’s insinuation into this situation is illegal. The DOJ determined that the complaint did not raise meet the statutory requirement of sufficient urgency to turn over, but there was so much pressure brought to bear that the Administration couldn’t resist any longer. Congress is charged by law with deciding whether a complaint meets the statutory criteria, and was going to get the report. Congress has requested that the whistleblower testify. I challenge Turley’s assertion that the Trump Administration was “transparent” about the Mueller Report, too. Trump refused to testify, he had Giuliani answer written questions, the answers were insufficient, and an amendment or supplement was demanded but refused. Trump refuses to hand over his financial documents, and fights all efforts to look into whom he is beholden to. That is not transparency. I want to see transcripts of all 8 calls, not just this one.
Then, there’s his involving Barr in this situation, treating Barr as his campaign’s personal attorney. Why would he do this unless Barr has clearly signaled that he’s a team player? Barr denies speaking with the Ukrainian President, but he has run interference for Trump. Barr tried to get a head start on the news cycle prior to release of the Mueller report by flat out lying about the conclusions of the report. Barr has no credibility. Then, there’s Giuliani being treated as a de facto or shadow ambassador or secretary of state. He has no authority to act or speak for the United States. There’s a reason why ambassadors and secretaries of state must be approved by Congress. This stinks so bad. Why doesn’t Trump do America a favor and just resign?
Why? Because we love Trump. He is a bully and uncouth and everything else, but he is “our” bully fighting the good fight on behalf of America and the American people. He is fighting the swamp and all the swampy creatures. He is fighting the establishment. He is fighting every day for “us” — the U.S. There is NO doubt that Trump is working hard (for free, without pay!!) to Make America Great for everyone. That’s why, doofus.
Yeah, right. The regulars, here — The Turley Twits — all 10 of you, or so — “love Trump.”
rotflmao.
Glad you had a good laugh. Wait till election day.
Oh, Trump may well be reelected. I’m laughing at your childish cheerleader mentality.
Childish cheerleader mentality? Oh I see. And your support for Hillary was what? Sophisticated, wise, and intelligent? Hahahahahahha!! Oh stop. I can’t.
Not a Hillary supporter.
Sure.
“Childish cheerleader mentality? ”
Yep. And you repeated it.
And here you are repeating your childish comments. Yep, you repeated it. How clever of you. Not.
Blah, blah, blah… Grow the ef up.
My my. “Grow the ef up.” Now THAT’s not a childish comment, is it? But you go on commenting on MY childish mentality and Trump cheerleading. Go on now. We see you.
Yep, honey. Grow the eff up.
You do the same. Honey.
It’s past your bedtime, sweetie.
You know it’s rather childish to have to ‘have the last word’….especially when those last words you “need” to say are as silly as these you offer here?? 😉
HAIL TO THE CHIEF DONALD J TRUMP!
Mr Kurtz……..It’s so refreshing to have this guy, flaws and all, as our president. I would love to meet him.
Yes! I would too. And Lady Melania as well. She is so lovely isn’t she?
Zombie talk.
Your cult leader made more for himself and his sleazy kids on the tax cut than decades of puny presidential pay.
While you think he’s fighting for you, he’s watching TV and eating junk foodin his pajamas – you know, kinda’ like your diabetic aunt, except he hasn’t started yelling at the TV.
Yet.
My only living aunt is a Democrat.
Why you mocking diabetics and cheeze doodles?
Oh and if you check out John Kerry’s kids, and Joe Biden’s kids, I believe you will find actual sleeze to comment on. K?
Wow! You think it’s good for a politician to bully young children and migrants by caging them like animals, just to get votes from people like you, instead of going after the people who hire the migrants, and who are the cause of the crisis at the southern border? How about lying that Mexico would pay to build a wall–a claim he pulled out of his pasty, white ass? It was a lie because he had no plan or means to accomplish this, but people like you believed him. You think it’s good to be uncouth–“grab ’em by the pussy”? Calling women who disagree with him “nasty”? Insulting other world leaders when they don’t kow tow to him: “Little Rocket Man”. Insulting members of Congress who were legally elected, unlike Trump: “pencil neck” and “Pocahontas”? You think it’s “fighting the good fight” to praise White Supremacists by calling them “good people” after a protester was murdered, and calling African countries “shi*hole”? How about siding with a murderous dictator over the conclusions of American intelligence? How about firing anyone who won’t agree with him and anyone who stands up for the Constitution that they are sworn to preserve and protect–a man who lied to get out of military service, and who leverages military aid appropriated by Congress to try to cheat to win an election, because he had to cheat to win the first election and because he knows he can’t win without cheating. Someone who rolls back consumer and environmental protections to get votes from wealthy Republicans to the detriment of the rest of us, and who constantly lies? You think this is “fighting” for the United States? If you do, you don’t understand the United States or Trump. Trump only works hard to get attention and adulation because of his malignant narcissism.
My only confusion in all of this is how delusional or dysfunctional people like you have to be to support this uniquely and incredibly unqualified, undignified, deceitful and narcissistic excuse for human life. Not only do you support him, you claim to “love” him. Well, Anonymous, the rest of us, that is most Americans, those of us who are patriots, those of us who never supported Trump, did not vote for him, do not approve of him, and who want him gone, love America. We know that America does not stand for racism, misogyny, disrespect for and abuse of other people, especially those who are different, and we expect our leader to be a person of integrity–someone the rest of the world sees as emblematic of American values. That person is not Trump. What makes America great is all of the things Trump is not. Supporting Trump is the antithesis of American patriotism.
Natch says with her typically overweening style:
“Supporting Trump is the antithesis of American patriotism.”
BY WHAT AUTHORITY ARE YOU THE JUDGE OF WHO IS A PATRIOT?
By your own mouth that’s all. Your own arrogance and busy fingertips!
You’re entitled to your own opinion and I applaud you for sharing it. But remember: you speak only for yourself.
Honey, to find a politician on the national stage who is “a person of integrity” is like finding the needle in the haystack. If they did exist in Washington, they come and go in the blink of an eye and don’t survive in the cesspool that is Washington. Do you think Joe Biden is “a person of integrity”?? Please tell me you’re not that stupid.
Emblematic of American values? Like which ones? Here are the American values Trump represents: Individual initiative. Work ethic. Work hard toward your dreams and goals. Optimism. Nothing is impossible. Dream big and go for it because this is America. Build something. Be proud of the work you do. Individualism. Directness. Transparency. Authenticity. Be who you are and never ever apologize for being yourself. Stand up and fight for what you believe in. Do what’s best. Equality under the law. Competition. Get the job done on time and under budget. Over-deliver. BE Best. So what “American values” are YOU referring to that Trump does not embody? The man lives and breathes American patriotism and love for his country. There is NO doubt about this.
Where do you get this drivel? Trump has always been a spoiled, lazy , arrogant scofflaw who was fully dependent on his Daddy well into his mid-forties. He has cheated and lied his entire life –lied about fake bone spurs to evade military service, cheated many people who have done business with him–his MO is to enter into a contract for goods or services, recieve the benefits, force the other party to sue, and then “negotiate ” for a lower price. He has done this so many times that no one wants to do business with him. Then, there’s the multiple bankruptcies. How about cheating on all 3 (so far) of his wives? What about the daily, endless lying, to the point that we are getting worn out keeping score? His racism is a matter of court record–he entered into a consent decree after being caught engaging in race discrimination in renting apartments, something he lies about–claiming he “won” the lawsuit. BTW: being a slumlord accounts for a lot of Trump, Sr’s initial wealth, which is nothing to be proud of. Oh, but wait!
I forgot that Fred Trump is a German immigrant–right? No–Fred was born in the Bronx, something else your hero lies about.
The things you describe are divorced from reality when it comes to Trump, and the fact that the truth about this deeply flawed person doesn’t faze people like you is deeply worrying. You are not a supporter–you are a disciple to a completely fabricated ideal. That is the very definition of “Trump Derangement Syndrome “.
You make Trump sound like just the kind of guy we need in charge.
One not bound by lying timid morality who is willing to stomp on his rivals and exercise power with decisive instinct instead of trembling hesitation. The kind of leader who acts, instead of awaiting a committee of lawyer to approve his every sentence.
We know that’s what Democrats want and expect– for Republicans! because that kind of wimp is the one who allowed it all to slide this far. Well, I welcome Trump, the more you say he is ruthless the more I like him.
Finally, maybe we have drawn an ace.
So, now we’re finally clear–there’s no logic or American values operating here–it’s pure “hero” worship. You see Trump as some kind of hero. I have read writings in which it is theorized that white men who support Trump resented an attractive, athletic, articulate black man being a successful President. These supporters wish they could be like Trump–wealthy (Trump is very likely nowhere near as wealthy as he would have people believe, which is one reason he fights against release of his tax returns), and that they could brag about grabbing younger, attractive womens’ genitalila and get away with it. Also, to be married to a former stripper young enough to be their daughter, to have their own airplane and reality TV show, casinos, resorts and hotels. So, they worship The Donald, overlooking the fact that he is all bluster, lies, showmanship, big talk, a serial cheater, a serial bankrupt, mostly failure at business, and a chronic, habitual liar. They actually admire his racism, xenophobia and misogyny, because those align with their beliefs, too.
Take the latest caper: Trump knows that at least the top 5 Democrats running for POTUS can beat him. Biden is at the top of the pack (or was at the time), so Trump withholds the funding Ukraine desperately needs in order to get the Ukrainian President to manufacture dirt on Biden and/or his son that he can use for political purposes. This aid was sorely needed because Russia had already taken the Crimea, and the Ukrainians were desperate to stop them from going further. It is in America’s interests to stop Russia from taking the entire Ukraine because the Ukraine is the largest land mass between Russia and our European allies. America has multiple military facilities in Europe that needed protection, too. Congress appropriated money and approved the sale of Javelin weapons to be given to the Ukrainians. So, Trump, employing what you call “decisive instinct” tries to leverage this desperation to his political advantage. That does not offend you. Then, he lies about the reason–claiming that he was trying to pressure other allies into giving more aid because America gives the most aid. Another lie. All OK with you.
Never mind the fact that he has no authority to withhold foreign aid appropriated by Congress. Never mind the fact that these calls to the Ukrainian president were not to advance relations with the Ukraine or to further America’s interests, but solely for the benefit of his political campaign. Such conversations are not covered by executive privilege, but that didn’t stop the DOJ from so opining.
He has replaced honorable people at the DOJ with syncophants whose main qualification is disregarding their oath to support and defend the Constitution and to pledge fealty to him, which they have done, even when he violates the law. The DOJ had no business being involved in the whistleblower complaint, but tried to bury the entire matter. Makes you wonder what else has gone on that we don’t know about. One thing we do agree on: he is ruthless. You say that such ruthlessness is an admirable quality. Ruthlessness for what purpose, I ask? Not to advance America or its values. He is ruthless purely to try to keep the office he cheated to get in the first place because of his malignant narcissism and jealousy of Barak Obama. He had to cheat because the majority of the American people did not support him and still don’t. That is not leadership–that is abusing power he wrongfully obtained in the first place. More bluster. More BS.
Trump was right when he said that those of you with TDS would still vote for him if he committed coldblooded murder on Fifth Avenue in front of witnesses. However, the reasons you support him are not admirable and are, in fact, un-American. You believe that respecting the rule of law, respecting the Constitution, respecting minorities and women and being honest equate to being a wimp. Your thinking is disordered. America is better than Trump.
YES TRUMP IS MY HERO
YOU ARE NOT THE JUDGE OF WHO IS UNAMERICAN
BY WHAT AUTHORITY DO YOU JUDGE ME? YOUR OWN BIG MOUTH THAT’S ALL
Again, Nuttybooboo — to use your own words as it pertains to the sycophantic praise and idolatry of one deeply flawed human being named Barack Hussein Obama (when did he change his name legally from Barry Soetero, again? I forgot) —–>
When it comes to OBAMA “it’s pure “hero” worship. You see [OBAMA] as some kind of hero.”
Because he was/is a media creation. Don’t call any Trump voter stupid. You fell for some of the biggest bunches of crap ever shoved down voters throats. And you STILL are.
Nuttychacha said: “The things you describe are divorced from reality when it comes to Trump, and the fact that the truth about this deeply flawed person doesn’t faze people like you is deeply worrying. You are not a supporter–you are a disciple to a completely fabricated ideal.”
Now let’s replace the name ‘Trump’ with Barack Obama, shall we? And you tell me again who is stupid.
—> “The things you describe are divorced from reality when it comes to BARACK OBAMA, and the fact that the truth about this deeply flawed person doesn’t faze people like you is deeply worrying. You are not a supporter–you are a disciple to a completely fabricated ideal.”
*Emphasis on that last sentence of yours as it pertains to Obama sycophants: “you are a disciple to a completely fabricated ideal.”
*Added emphasis on: “completely fabricated ideal” when it comes to Barack Hussein Obama.
One more time —> “COMPLETELY FABRICATED IDEAL.” Get it yet??
Honey, do you think Barack Obama was “a person of integrity” who loved this country and revealed who he really is and what he really belives? Do you believe Hillary Clinton is “a person of integrity” who was interested in serving the people? Please please tell me you are not this stupid.
Do you believe Trump supporters are deplorable and stupid people? Do you really believe that? Because you could not be more wrong. Which makes YOU the delusional one.
Doofus- Obama, Hillary, W, HW, Carter, Reagan and on and on were people with principles who cared about something bigger than themselves. While imperfect, they avoided lying and bragging all day long and were motivated by goals other than being the center of attention no matter what and at all times.
People who still support Trump may be stupid and ignorant, or lacking any ability to judge human character and avoid being taken by con men (enjoying paying for the wall?).
Your post is a perfect example of this mindset.
Doofus- Obama, Hillary, W, HW, Carter, Reagan and on and on were people with principles who cared about something bigger than themselves.
That’s a rum description of all of them except Reagan and perhaps Carter.
The most cogent explanation of the political involvements of George Bush the Elder and George Bush the Younger was offered by the disreputable Steve Sailer: the intramural culture of the Bush family is quite competitive. Karl Rove has said that not only is the Younger Bush competitive, he is ‘the most competitive man I have ever met’. Sailer’s speculation: ‘if his father owned the biggest junkyard in town, he’d want to own the biggest junkyard in two towns’.
Prescott Bush, Sr. was for 15 years an avocational politician, secretary of the local town meeting and on the local school board. Yap about ‘public service’ is largely vacuous and commonly complete humbug, but it does mean something when the activity in question is tedious, pays nothing, eats up your time, &c. The elder Bush was eventually elected to Congress in late middle age, after he’d made quite a pile in investment banking. It was after his retirement that his 2d born son cashed in and went from avocational party organizing to professional politics. (His older brother stuck with avocational politics in and around Greenwich, Ct).
Being a businessman in Texas, having made good in conventional ways, imbibing the patriotism which was modal in his cohort, and being fairly other-directed, there were boundaries papa George Bush wasn’t going to breach. (You could say the same of Gerald Ford). Otherwise, issues were fungible to him, something all but explicitly acknowledged during the last leg of his career. (“Oh that. The vision thing”). He liked a challenge and he liked winning competitions. He had no ideology.
His son has commitments, not convictions. The Bush family doesn’t contend with the purveyors of the kultursmog, as a rule (bar hanging a rubber chicken around the neck of Michael Dukakis), and it’s doubtful they’ve ever been at odds with modal opinion in their social circles. To the extent that the Younger Bush was willing to go to the mat for something that wasn’t a personal project (e.g. the Iraq War), it would be his agitation in favor of open borders. That doesn’t resonate with anyone among his supposed supporters except for Chamber of Commerce types (those he listens to) and libertarian spergs (he doesn’t know or care much about).
Hillary doesn’t have principles, either. She has sources of aggression (and also considerable cupidity).
As for Obama, he has attitudes, not principles. If he’s ever had an original observation in his life, we don’t know it. If he ever had any critical engagement with what’s the mode in his social circles, we don’t know it. His administration was the resultant of the vectors at work in the Democratic Party. The only signatures he added were (1) what you’d expect of someone who came of age ca. 1979: the Green energy shtick and the Iran shtick and (2) the secretiveness and the little bits of spite.
Just like the saying that the medium is the message–
for the tribe, the principle is power itself
Republican leadership has been passing that horn of mead in Trump’s hall. They need to fulfill their boasts now and gird for war, because if their nerve fails, they will be absolutely deserted by the rank and file, permanently. Who will make other arrangements once the political establishment fails them one last time. if they do.
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
let them know there is no way out, either stand by Trump with firm resolve, or they are done
Thank you, Doofus. I voted for Trump. I support Trump. I will vote for him again. Do I buy what he’s selling? Sure. Do I know some of it is a con job, as is true of all politicians? Sure. Do I disagree with some of what he does? Sure. Do I disagree with some of his policies? Sure. Do I think he’s shaking the box and driving Washington establishment types mad? Sure. And I love watching them all squirm.
Do I think his economic agenda is by and large helping more Americans from every sector than anything Barack Obama did in eight years? Absolutely.
Do I think Hillary Clinton would have been a complete disaster as president? 100% guaranteed disaster no freakin’ doubt about it.
The Democrat party made a grave mistake in nominating the likes of Hillary Clinton. They know it. They do not accept their mistake. They have not learned from their mistakes. They have no one in the current crop of candidates that can beat Trump. And they know it. Democrat voters know it. And Trump voters know it.
Hence, the circus, this absurd RESISTANCE that we have been subjected to ever since election day. We are witnessing this nonsense, this chaos, all being orchestrated by the Democrats as their only way to block Trump’s reelection. What a disgrace the Democrat party is today.
Democrat voters –who have been deceived and lied to, blatantly lied to, for three years now, by their own party and its media allies, STILL believe this crap being shoved down their throats. And you call Trump voters stupid? Look in the dam mirror.
Wow! You think it’s good for a politician to bully young children and migrants by caging them like animals, just to get votes from people like you, instead of going after the people who hire the migrants, and who are the cause of the crisis at the southern border?
**************
Yeah, damn Obama:
https://conservativedailypost.com/obama-is-getting-pass-as-trump-takes-the-blame/
Natacha
Your analysis is powerful and persuasive. However; the owners of this country won’t support/allow the removal of Trump. They only support removing presidents who threaten their wealth and power. JFK was assassinated in the 11/22/63 coup, Nixon was removed in the Silent Coup because of his support for a guaranteed national income, the EPA, opening up relations with China etc. Carter was robbed of a 2nd term because he was insufficiently pro-war.
Your analysis is powerful and persuasive.
Then offers a precis of things the superintendents of asylums used to have to listen to. The succeeding generation of head shrinkers write scrips and tell you to get lost.
This latest chapter in the case of The American People v The Political Class seems to be easily resolvable. There are known facts and then there are questions/allegations about “truths”. Biden might believe he can rely on his truth, not facts (evidence), but that won’t make his problems go away. Trump might believe he can rely on facts (evidence), but that won’t make his problems go away.
Biden needs to support his truth with facts/evidence. Transcripts, etc. should go a long way to support his truths. The Ukraine should be able to provide investigative evidence that proves what corruption they were dealing with, especially as it might relate to the prosecutor that got fired. Of course Obama and his administration should have transcripts of conversations as well as have conducted a thorough investigation to make sure his VP didn’t abuse his authority while acting on behalf of the administration and the American people.
I would want every administration to do their due diligence to make sure our tax dollars are not being handed over to corrupt regimes. I would also want every administration to not ignore corruption within their own administration or previous administrations. Biden is innocent until proven guilty, but without a thorough investigation, he is suspect. Being a candidate for president should not immune someone from investigation of wrongdoing.
OK, but there is plenty of evidence already that he worked on ending corruption in the Ukraine and none that he was there to bail out or cover Hunter.
First there has to be a credible accusation and this one has no weight.
First there has to be a credible accusation
Since when do the Democrats require a credible accusation?
A whistleblower accused the President of something that the whistleblower had no direct knowledge of. That might pass as credible in North Korea, but our standards are supposed to be just a tad higher than that.
there is plenty of evidence already that he worked on ending corruption in the Ukraine and none that he was there to bail out or cover Hunter.
Good for him, that’s why he was put in that position. And if there has been a thorough investigation proving Burisma was not corrupt, that the prosecutor was not investigating Burisma, that Hunter Biden was put on that board without any influence by his father, that the firing of the prosecutor had no connection to Burisma, then Joe Biden should be just fine; well except for the obvious conflict-of-interest.
I didn’t think you had one Olly.
I didn’t think; you had one Olly.
There, I fixed it for you.
You’re welcome!