Congress, Constitutional Law, Criminal law, Media, Politics

Trump “Trying To Find Out” Identity Of Whistleblower Despite Federal Law

In a continuing failure to respect the spirit and letter of the whistle-blower law, President Donald Trump said on Monday that he was “trying to find out” the identity of the whistle-blower who accused him of using military aid to pressure a foreign government to investigate his political rival. Once again, there is no need for such a highly inappropriate effort. This is part of an impeachment inquiry, and the witness is likely to appear before Congress. However, the whistle-blower law — and good policy — protects the identity of such staff members. Trump previously had compared the whistle-blower to a spy — an accusation that was clearly threatening and improper.

Once again, this is only magnifying the impeachment risk for Trump. It is also wrong both legally and ethically. One may disagree with the whistle-blower, and one can investigate any political bias as part of the impeachment process. However, even Trump’s Director of National Intelligence said that the staffer did the right thing in filing the complaint. He also said that his identity is protected.

The Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989 was created to protect federal workers from precisely this type of harassment or threat. 5 U.S.C. § 2302 (b)(8)-(9)  prohibits “a personnel action” against an employee who makes “any disclosure of information” which the employee “reasonably believes” to show “any violation of any law, rule, or regulation.” That includes a prohibition of any form of retaliation for the “the exercise of any appeal, complaint, or grievance right granted by any law, rule, or regulation,” including “cooperating with or disclosing information to the Inspector General.”

As with the Special Counsel investigation, Trump is magnifying the risks and prolonging the process with these statements and actions. It is possible to counterpunch yourself into an impeachment and even into removal from office if you try hard enough.

170 thoughts on “Trump “Trying To Find Out” Identity Of Whistleblower Despite Federal Law”

  1. ““Must be a coincidence that Allan was a also a primary participant in the previous thread that had a (then) record 826 comments.””

    Anonymous, the difference between that discussion and our own was that dhlii is a very smart guy and an engineer. Two topics were under discussion, EMP and principled responses where one was slightly more pragmatic. Dhlii I believe is a talented engineer who focused on his engineering background and very libertarian positions while I focused on the government study with a slightly more pragmatic position.

    You have none of those qualities so our discussions were mostly a waste of time mixed with gaming. He also didn’t obscure his persona with other nuts that also couldn’t stand behind their own words.

    1. Highlighting one of dhlii’s final comments to Allan:

      “dhlii says: August 13, 2018 at 1:46 AM

      Regardless, you have this bizzare concept that people do things in blog comment sections beside comment.

      I DO things in the largest part of my life which is not here.”

      https://jonathanturley.org/2018/07/11/cambridge-under-fire-for-hiring-american-physics-researcher-who-advocated-monogamy-on-blog-three-years-ago/#comments

      People make a difference in real life, not in the comments section of some blog.

      1. “Regardless, you have this bizzare concept that people do things in blog comment sections beside comment.”

        Anonymous, that was dhlii’s way to end the discussion. You don’t know how. Instead you are a boor.

        1. “Anonymous, that was dhlii’s way to end the discussion.” (Allan)

          No, that’s just Allan’s interpretation — the one that makes him feel better about himself.

          It’s what some call “AllanSpin.”

          1. “that’s just Allan’s interpretation ”

            Interpreting what someone else thinks is way above your weight limit. You do better interpreting the smells in the dog park.

              1. Here’s the correct dhlii link:

                https://jonathanturley.org/2018/07/11/cambridge-under-fire-for-hiring-american-physics-researcher-who-advocated-monogamy-on-blog-three-years-ago/comment-page-2/#comment-1769915

                To Allan from dhlii:

                “dhlii says: August 13, 2018 at 1:46 AM

                Regardless, you have this bizzare concept that people do things in blog comment sections beside comment.

                I DO things in the largest part of my life which is not here.”

                People make a difference in real life, not in the comments section of some blog.

                1. Why don’t you link to the part that talks about EMP? Way above your head, That’s why.

                  With all the digging you do and the posting I do under my own persona you sure are having a problem trying to find something that would make anyone even blink.

                  You are a fool as you were under your previous alias.

  2. No one need worry about Allan being mentioned as the most, or one of the most, frequent commentators.
    My comments are less frequent and more sporadic.
    Every now and then I’ll take on a gasbag and liar like Allan when he makes some comments that are exceptional for their stupidity.

    1. All one has to do is add up the anonymous comments. Yep, the most frequent and not the brightest.

      1. I would think that a genius like Allan would know that there is more than one person posting as anonymous.
        And I would bet that over the past year you could count up all of the comments, and especially all of the words, written by all who posted as anonymous, and they’d be a fraction of Allan Blowhard’s tally.

        1. “I would think that a genius like Allan would know that there is more than one person posting as anonymous.”

          Anonymous, That is what makes all of you dumb. You all have to be looked at as one person and that doesn’t create a pretty picture. Here you are, once again trying to escape from your own comments hiding in along with all the other anonymi.

          Over and over I have advised adopting a singular persona and now you are finding out why.

          1. As others ‘have advised’, if Allan were to simply respond to the content of comments, he might have an easier time of it.

            1. “As others ‘have advised’, if Allan were to simply respond to the content of comments, he might have an easier time of it.”

              You are just spinning. That is why I frequently post quotes that I am responding to. You have a great deal of trouble staying in focus but we have to live with that.

              I know you are trying to build up the posting numbers so don’t be angry that I am not answering a good number of your posts. You make yourself look like a fool. You don’t need me to do that for you.

  3. Liberty, at least a few people on the blog understand the problem. The hate from the left is so intense that they are willing to burn themselves up just to get their way.

  5. Ruh roh

    From The Hill today:

    A judge told federal prosecutors on Monday that they needed to charge former acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe or stop investigating whether he lied to authorities.

    Judge Reggie B. Walton said at a hearing that if prosecutors don’t make a decision by Nov. 15, he would order the Justice Department to release internal FBI documents connected to McCabe’s ouster, according to a transcript of the hearing.

    “If the government has not made a call I’m going to make a ruling,” he said. “This is just dragging too long. And those who have to make these hard decisions need to do it. And if they don’t, I’m going to start ordering the release of information.”

    “I will not condone further delay,” added Walton, a George W. Bush appointee who once presided over the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

  6. Some human, who will probably be dubbed “a leaker” will reveal the person whom the media calls “the Whistleblower”. Then a person will reveal the leaker and will be called “a snake”. Meanwhile Biden is done. The story about him and his son and the corrupt foreign companies paying millions to the Hunter Bee will not go away. The left media likes Warren and probably is ok with that. The aspect to all this impeachment apCray is that there is no evidence of high crime or misdemeonor or even a city ordinance violation by Trump. He could quite and hand it over to Pence.

  8. “In a continuing failure to respect the spirit and letter of the whistle-blower law…”

    This is a door this swings both ways.

  10. Did he really say that or is it just one of those reportedly, purportedly allegedly quotes from nowhere?

  11. I spent time today at a specialty clinic interfacing with physicians, nurses, staff and patients. I am an outgoing person who asks a lot of open ended, other directed questions: “how are you feeling, what is concerning you, what needs to happen for your situation to improve, what do you see are the obstacles standing in the way”, etc.

    No one is talking about DC politics, Trump, Pelosi, US House Dems, Ukraine, Russia, elections past / future or impeachment. Average Americans are concerned about their immediate world, their families, their physical and mental health, jobs, personal goals and walking away from unhealthy lifestyle choices and scenarios

    It is selfish how the US House Democrats and mainstream media continue to suck the oxygen out of our nation, place themselves in the limelight and make everything about themselves.

    A pox upon them all.

    1. “It is selfish how the US House Democrats and mainstream media continue to suck the oxygen out of our nation, place themselves in the limelight and make everything about themselves.”

      That is one of the main reasons I believe President Trump will win in 2020. The American public is getting tired of the nonsense played by our politicians and right now the Democrats are doing most of the playing.

      1. Allan…….LOL re: Sharpiegate comments.!…That post could have its own zipcode..Lol
        Thank you for the explanation! The next time Prof Turley hands out his “most comments” accolades, etc, I hope y’all get
        a serious honorable mention! 😁

        1. Thanks Cindy, anonymous wins the prize of the most postings ever though anonymous is the same poster that complains about others posting so much. He is still at it. Mommy never gave him a backbone so any offense leads to a ‘duel’.

          How is hubby? Last we heard he was recuperating but that comes slow. Hope he is back to normal.

          1. Thank you Allan….kind of you to ask. He is almost back to normal. His law practice is in full swing again, and luckily for me, he does alot of work from home. I like that!
            I love the law almost as much as he does, and always enjoyed the early days when he was in law school, 48 yrs ago.
            He and his best friend chose to study at our little rundown duplex home, instead of the law school. They were very animated,
            constantly arguing cases with such passion! It was so exciting for me, and I learned alot. Their grades excelled…..so they learned alot too 🤠
            Hope you and your wife get to take a trip to see Fall foliage!

            1. ” get to take a trip to see Fall foliage!”

              That is top in my thoughts right now and we have been discussing another trip to see it. The best foliage I saw was at Storm King NY near West Point. We went up there from the city to see the outdoor sculture garden with towering sculptures over many acres. Look up Storm King. When we got there the trees were spectacular but when we left, there were piles of leaves on the ground so we must have hit the sweet spot.

              2. Allan….Lucky y’all! Thank you for the information. Storm King area is just beautiful! And on the Hudson!
                I read that this Sunday, there’s a wine tasting, tour and hike of the area. I’m sure there’s much to do and see…..esp the foliage.

          2. Actually, I noted that Allan was a major participant in the previous record number thread.
            There is a common denominator in the two highest comment threads, and it is not anonymous.
            If Allan wants to move our argument to yet another thread…..this thread….maybe his determination to get in the first and last word will result in another run at 1,000 comments.
            And as long as his standard arguments involve calling people stupid or ignorant when he’s challenged, he may figure out that insults can fly both ways.
            Good luck to Allan on having the stamina to continue this argument on this thread, and perhaps even other threads.

      1. Someone should setup a Gofundme page for Estovir. He should be paid handsomely for ridding us of Peter Hill.

        OTOH, if that is you Peter posting anonymously, then Estovir should be paid tenfold for kicking your scrawny whiny ash into your safe space closet

        Bbbbbbwahahahahaaha

        1. Yeah, I’ve read the stuff Estovir posts. It’s gay harassment. No other word for it.

    3. interesting clip.

      they were talking about 3d printing of bioengineered materials including designer dna on the radio last week

      the guy said, they would take orders from anybody, but were “on the lookout” for “stuff like horse pox” which is close to smallpox. yeah, somebody tried to order synthetically replicated horse pox virus. kind of troubling, huh?

  12. This person isn’t a whistleblower, he’s a leaker and doesn’t deserve protection

    1. mr kurtz – is a cia agent who overhears things and gets them wrong and then reports them, leading to the overthrow of a President in a slightly different position? Asking for a fiend?

        1. Mr Kurtz – the fiend wanted to tell you he agreed with the judges in the case you posted.

          1. Friend or fiend? Our language is like German.
            Fiend like Demon, Teufel, or Feind like enemy?

            1. Mr Kurtz – I typed fiend in the first comment, so it was only right that I continue on in that vein. 😉

              1. lets keep asking these questions

                Whom did the purported whistle-blower collaborate with to produce his memo?
                What is his background?
                What are his biases?
                Who is the whistle-blower?

                The public has a right to know these things.

                They want to keep these things hidden and bury them under a mountain of distracting details

                zero in on these questions

                1. Mr Kurtz – the whistleblower was kind enough to send a copy of his paper to Schiff in early August. I think that shows as bias.

                2. It’s irrelevant Kurtz. If the complaint is accurate – and so far it mostly is – and no one’s rights violated, how has that any weight beyond historical records?

                  1. Oh, because Anon1, it’s another phase in a slow moving coup in effect since day one.

                    You may recall that “Deep Throat’ eventually was revealed as an FBI guy with an axe to grind against a colleague. These people want to disrupt the government based purely on their own selfish agendas, even as they lay that beef on trump, it’s precisely what they’re doing themselves. or so I suspect!

                    for example, arrogant Coup-Plotter John Brennan sends out general call to arms to other saboteurs on Twitter:

                    “John O. Brennan ✔ @JohnBrennan A reminder to federal officials: There is no limit on the number of individuals who can use the whistleblower statute. If you think you were involved in unlawful activity as a result of a directive from Mr. Trump or someone doing his bidding, now is the time to report it.”

                    JOHN BRENNAN FORMER CIA HONCHO BRAZENLY CALLING FOR STRIKE!

                    POLICE THIS WOULD BE PRAETORIAN NOW!~

                    I hope the Democrats will bring their impeachment fast, let the thing roll, and then let’s get on with arresting those incompetents and saboteurs and fraudulent “officials” who’ve betrayed the public trust by weaponizing their offices in clever ways! Despicable malingerers!

                    1. Kurtz, if you act to dismantle democracy, you deserve the “coup” which ultimately relies on our rule of law and democratic institutions. If you didn’t, it won’t happen.

                    2. if you act to dismantle democracy, you deserve the “coup” which ultimately relies on our rule of law and democratic institutions.

                      This is actual video of pseudo-constitutionalists, Anon1 and Natacha getting schooled.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNZFdZnYR44

                      If you act to dismantle democracy, you ARE the coup you dolt, which is exactly what has been waged against Trump as candidate and extending to today. You have been schooled on our rule of law and democratic institutions for 2.5 years and yet you are no closer to getting a clue than when this all started. You certainly will have an opportunity to rehabilitate your reputation once the IG and Durham reports drop, but given your disgusting intransigence, you won’t join the ranks of enlightened American patriots.

                  2. Anon1 – there is enough wrong with the whistleblower’s report to call it into question.

                    1. Paul C OT There are 936 comments over at Sharpiegate!! Is that a record?
                      Holy Cow!

                    2. Cindy Bragg – I have no idea. I do know about 800 have nothing to do with Sharpiegate. 😉

                    4. Cindy and Paul, I though Anonymous and Allan might be in cahoots together to bring down Prof. Ts comment section.

                      Turns out, I was wrong…per Anonymous response. My theory is a no-go, but it was worth a shot.

                    5. Paul, whatever is wrong with it – be specific – call into question, what is right – most of it – does not get somehow then get jettisoned. Trump has admitted to most of it.

                    6. Anon1 – the whistle blower claimed people were there who were not, claimed things happened that did not. That means he/she was making things up or some of his sources were feeding him/her bad info,

                      Let me give you an example. Remember the Zimmerman trial and that poor girl could not read cursive? It destroyed her credibility as a witness with the jury. Same here. Enough big stuff wrong, it destroys your credibility.

                    7. “Paul C OT There are 936 comments over at Sharpiegate!! Is that a record?”

                      Cindy, Some of the anonymi (not a word) were ganging up. Both were acting foolish though Fido the Brainless Wonder was just acting her normal self. I was getting bored with the list hearing the same garbage over and over again without our typical leftists ever bothering with the facts so I decided to play along.

                      It started as a comment on Princess Diana, but when Richardson in Canada was brought up one of the anonymi decided to become offended as what I said had to do with a (or several) potential systems problems. I was pointing out that certain diseases have short time window for the patient to survive. That is something you well understand.

                      The anonymi would have none of that and started uttering nonsense, quoting papers that disproved their positions, lied, misquoted, took things out of context and then lied again. They were nasty, arrogant, insulting and worst of all stupid. Why shouldn’t I have fun and play with them especially since the postings were occurring on a thread that had ended long before so could be unsubcribed from so as not to interfere with the individual poster.

                      Now you know the story but there is one more thing. The anonymi use a generic alias and a generic ink blot hiding themselves among each other. That makes the smarter anonymous look more stupid and stupid anonymous look smarter all while they make it difficult for others to have their say on the blog.They really don’t care about anyone but themselves.

                    8. Must be a coincidence that Allan was a also a primary participant in the previous thread that had a (then) record 826 comments.
                      Back then, one individual was “ganging up” on Allan. I think he ultimately saw the futilty of try to debate a blowhard like Allan, when Allan decides to take the position that he’s right regardless of the facts.
                      Glad to see that Allan moved his mealy-mouthed excuses to yet another thread.

                    9. “Must be a coincidence that Allan was a also a primary participant in the previous thread that had a (then) record 826 comments.”

                      This is another stupid comment from a stupid person (anonymous) who can’t intelligently discuss what is out there so he complains and cries.

                      Go back to momma or your teething ring.

  15. Could someone enlighten me. Isn’t an impeachment process a trial to determine guilt or innocence for committing high crimes or misdemeanors. Isn’t a misdemeanor a crime even if it is a low level crime? If this is so, then why can’t Trump meet his accuser during this process. Can someone please enlighten me please.

    1. Independent Bob:

      Presidents — and others – can be impeached for lots of reasons spelled out in the Constitution. The biggies are “Treason and Bribery” but practically speaking the “high crimes and misdemeanors” are the typical charges. “High crimes and misdemeanors” are legal words of art deriving from the English Common Law and while they explicitly state criminality the term means more. There is a wonderful law review article delineating the cases surrounding the term and answering a lot of good questions. Here it is:

      https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=201050

      Hit the button on the bottom to read.

      The bottom line is that there is considerable debate about just what the term means and even if impeachment is a civil or criminal proceeding with all the due process considerations that goes with that decision. Practically speaking, you’d better have a specific US criminal code section or common law offense to launch such an undertaking. Since we all know that “When you strike at a King you must kill him.” (Ralph Waldo Emerson in a letter to Oliver Wendell Holmes, 1885)

    1. Hmmm…

      Pussycat, pussycat, what did you there?
      I frightened a little mouse under his chair.

      But, are they sure it wasn’t a mole?

  17. “failure to respect the spirit and letter of the whistleblower law”…….The whistleblower law was secretly truncated and damaged n August, seriously changing it so that the “whistle blower” does not have to have had first hand knowlege when complaint was made.
    Was secretly changing the law even legal?
    Is that the law that you want respected in spirit and letter? When did hearsay become an object of respect?

    1. “[T]he timing of the removal of the first-hand information requirement raises questions about potential connections to this whistleblower’s complaint,” the lawmakers continued. “This timing, along with numerous apparent leaks of classified information about the contents of this complaint, also raise questions about potential criminality in the handling of these matters.”
      https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/30/top-lawmakers-tell-intel-community-inspector-general-come-clean-on-secret-changes-to-whistleblower-rules/?utm_source=The+Federalist+List&utm_campaign=62e8f19ba8-RSS_The_Federalist_Daily_Updates_w_Transom&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cfcb868ceb-62e8f19ba8-79248369

    2. Well you can bet money if Brennan is tweeting this that this change in the reporting requirement was to further weaponize the IC. He deserves this torpedo to come back on him.

      A reminder to federal officials:

      There is no limit on the number of individuals who can use the whistleblower statute.

      If you think you were involved in unlawful activity as a result of a directive from Mr. Trump or someone doing his bidding, now is the time to report it.

  18. REO Speedwagon wrote a song for this: “Heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard it from another (Trump’s) been messin’ around”

    And that’s all the serious I will give this latest coup attempt. They sure are scared of him at the ballot box, aren’t they?

  19. Once again, there is no need for such a highly inappropriate effort.

    We are long past the time where highly appropriate effort is warranted. This is pure lawfare. This so called WB complaint is nothing more than another weapon launched at this president from the lawfare community.

    Turley, how many involved in this soft coup received their education through your law school? Once Horrowitz, Durham and Barr get finished, there had better be criminal prosecutions. At a minimum, any individual involved in this abuse of power that has a license to practice law should have it revoked.

  20. What is the difference between a whistleblower, and a political operative spy or saboteur? Intent? It appears that political activists have abused their power and access in repeated soft coup attempts to oust a lawfully elected president. Examples were the scuttling of the return of interest in Greenland. The sabotage of this idea, before it could even be discussed through proper channels, greatly benefitted Russia and China, both of whom have positioned themselves to gain influence over Greenland, which has strategic importance.

    Certainly investigate allegations of wrong doing…on all sides.

    1. Wasn’t “lawfully elected”, Karen. Read the Mueller Report. He knows it, too, which is why he’s spending our taxpayer dollars to try to undermine the report, using Giuliani, Pompeo and even William Barr, as well as trying to pressure our foreign allies into coming up with some counter-narrative that can be broadcast by Fox News.

      Now, you’re accusing someone in government of trying to scuttle some deal that was never going to happen? What was there to be “discussed through proper channels”? Greenland was never going to be for sale, but you’re already willing to believe that there is wrongdoing in even reporting the truth about Trump and his crimes and failures. You’ve been watching Hannity again.

      1. Read the Mueller Report.

        You and Anon1 keep uttering this incantation, as if we didn’t know it was humbug.

        1. So, if the Mueller Report is “humbug”, why is Trump trying so hard, using taxpayer resources, to discredit it? “We”, meaning the majority of the American people, know better.

          2. So, if the Mueller Report is “humbug”, why is Trump trying so hard, using taxpayer resources, to discredit it?

            More wishcasting from you? There’s nothing of interest in the report except to people like yourself who see what is not there. As for Mueller, he’s made it clear he was not in charge of the investigation (and may be disappearing into dementia).

            1. Short video explaining the racket that is the Paris Climate Accord. Easy to understand. Even for Natacha.

    2. “What is the difference between a whistleblower, and a political operative spy or saboteur? Intent? It appears that political activists have abused their power and access in repeated soft coup attempts to oust a lawfully elected president.”

      One has to think about JFK and the fear that a war with nuclear weapons was on the brink. One has to think how that war was at least in part averted. Discussions by phone. What foreign leader is going to want such a discussion to take place? Will such a discussion ever be able to take place again? Think of JFK and Khruschev not being able to talk freely. What might have happened if the Democrats had done this prior to the JFK administration.

      1. Good comment here. I might add, what about Reagan talking to Gorbachov. Yeah, he said in public: Mister Gorbachov, tear down this wall!” But they had other private talks.

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