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As Impeachment Draws Near, An “Agent Provocateur” May Have To Wait For An Urgent Pardon
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Below is my column in USA Today on the conviction of Roger Stone and his final battle for a presidential pardon to avoid a potentially terminal prison sentence.

Here is the column:

In his documentary, “Get Me Roger Stone,” Roger Stone begin with the signature declaration “My name is Roger Stone, and I’m an agent provocateur.” In what may be his most impressive success as a provocateur, Stone seemed to provoke a jury in Washington, D.C., to render a sweeping conviction on all counts for his role in the investigation into Russia and the 2016 election.

False statements, witness tampering, and other charges could put Stone, 67, behind bars for 50 years. Even a modest sentence could result in a practical life sentence for Stone. According to far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, Stone reached out to him to pitch a pardon from President Donald Trump.

In response to the conviction, Trump cried foul that Stone was prosecuted while others were not. Trump did not question that Stone lied but asked “Crooked Hillary, Comey, Strzok, Page, McCabe, Brennan, Clapper, Shifty Schiff, Ohr & Nellie, Steele & all of the others, including even Mueller himself? Didn’t they lie?”

As Stone himself can now attest, “everyone lies” is not a particularly useful defense to criminal false statements. It is particularly weak when a self-professed provocateur was eager to speak to everyone except the jury. Stone declined to take the stand in a case where his intent behind statements were critical to the verdict.

Performance art can land you in jail

Roger Stone is precisely why 7.8% of Americans suffer from coulrophobia, or fear of clowns. You can add 100% of the jury in this case. Stone has insisted that what he does in politics is “performance art. Sometimes for its own sake.” However, this performance art seemed to work for not only its own sake, but for the sake of Stone, and ultimately Trump. 

The most damaging was Stone’s warning to Randy Credico, who was called as a witness to speak to any effort of Stone’s to obtain hacked emails from WikiLeaks. Referencing a character in “The Godfather: Part II,” Stone told Credico to “Practice your Frank Pentangeli.” In the movie, Frank “Frankie Five Angels” Pentangeli committed suicide after lying to Congress to protect the mob.

The statement was vintage Stone: reckless, alarming, and, yes, entertaining. The problem with being a performance artist is when your performance is suggesting a criminal act.

Jones said that Stone was certain of his own demise before the verdict was returned. It was not hard to predict. Not only did Stone decline to testify but his team put forward a defense as opaque and convoluted as Stone himself. Get the Opinion newsletter in your inbox.

The argument was that, even if Stone intended to lie to Congress in denying an effort to use intermediaries with WikiLeaks, it was not a lie because the people he contacted did not ultimately work as intermediaries because they lied to Stone. Thus, despite his best efforts, Stone essentially argued that he did not lie when he lied about using intermediaries because it turned out that those intermediaries may have lied to him. Since they did not actually work as intermediaries, the earlier false statement was portrayed as true (or least not proven to be false) because they never actually contacted WikiLeaks.

A pardon from Trump isn’t guaranteed

Stone now joins a list of former Trump associates as a convicted felon. Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort are serving time while Michael Flynn and Rick Gates are awaiting sentencing. At the same time, the president’s legal provocateur, Rudy Giuliani, is under investigation by federal prosecutors in New York and could be facing indictment, according to anonymous officials who spoke to Bloomberg. 

Stone will not be sentenced until Feb. 6, 2020. That timing is not ideal for Stone’s pitch for a pardon. The House appears all-but-certain to impeach Trump by the end of December. Any trial would likely occur in January and February. Pardoning Stone would hardly create the optics needed for a Senate trial.

Thank goodness for the deep state:Trump impeachment: Government deep state isn’t what you think, and America really needs it

The assumption is any Trump pardons would likely happen after the end of any impeachment trial. Indeed, presidents like Clinton have often waited to make controversial pardons until the end of their terms. These elderly men will hardly feel that time is on their side when they start to serve jail terms. That would put Trump in a position of issuing pardons the same year as the 2020 election and during, if not shortly after, an impeachment trial.

Of course, pardon power is given to the absolute discretion to a president. Moreover, Trump has shown a willingness to shoulder criticism in the pardons of controversial figures like former sheriff Joseph M. Arpaio, commentator Dinesh D’Souza or former Bush administration official I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby. His tweet with the “list of liars” may lay the foundation for his rationale in issuing pardons for people like Flynn, Stone and others. 

In the meantime, Stone will be left contemplating the next act in his performance art. The problem is that federal Judge Amy Jackson released Stone but kept in place the gag order preventing him from most public comments. I fail to see why such a gag order is necessary since such orders are primarily designed to protect the integrity of the jury pool. The jury has been heard. 

For Stone, the gag order takes him off his game. He once said, “If you’re not controversial, you’ll never break through the din of all the commentary.” Any case for a pardon will have to be made by others, but Stone is now clearly playing to an audience of one.

Jonathan Turley, the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University, is a member of USA TODAY’s Board of Contributors. Follow him on Twitter: @JonathanTurley

81 thoughts on “As Impeachment Draws Near, An “Agent Provocateur” May Have To Wait For An Urgent Pardon”

  1. There is a guy out behind the post office every morning wearing a name tag identifying himself as wiki. He takes a leak on the postal truck and eats a donut while he reads the new York times.

  2. Stone played to an audience which includes me. Pardon him Ray! Or Trump! Pardon him before the Dems get a hard win in Iowa.

    2. i saw that one. very funny isnt it. jimmy dore scores again

      its guys like that which remind me that the Democrat leadership are a bunch of rotten scoundrels and a lot of regular Democrat folks are actually sane and decent.

  4. It is an unspeakable horror what happened to 800,000 innocent people who were euthanized while Clinton pretended not to know about the blood bath and later lied about his legal responsibility to act.
    It is an equally repulsive tragedy that America doesn’t care. And, we are the righteous nation that condemns the Germans for the holocaust. Hypocrites and traitors. If they had been white folks, all hell would break loose.

    1. Thanks for reporting in from Pluto, or wherever your mind thinks you are.

      this is to “I don’t even make sense to myself, so there’s that” winkie

    2. What of the million innocent Iraqis mass murdered for lies?And millions more based on lies and propaganda by the USA?

      When did republicans cry for the women in China being dragged out of their house for forced abortion?

      At least women in the USA have a choice

      Don’t pretend that you care

      1. When did the U.S. order the deaths of a million Iraqis? Any idea? You mean when Hilary voted to intervene?

        Saddam Hussein was hanged for ordering the deaths of 148 Shiite men and boys in the village of Dujail after an assassination attempt there in 1982. But by the standards of his brutal rule, the Dujail killings were a relatively minor crime.

        Following is a partial list of other crimes Saddam is accused of:

        1974 — Dawa Killings

        1980 — Fayli Deportations and Killings

        1983 — Barzani Abductions

        1988 — Al-Anfal Campaign

        1988 — Halabja Gassing

        1990s — Marsh Arabs Devastated

        1990 — Invasion of Kuwait

        1991 — Kurdish and Shiite Rebellions

        1999 — Al-Sadr Assassination

        In a statement responding to the execution, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki said, “Let the families of Iraqi martyrs killed in mass graves, Anfal, Halabja or those executed in the cells of the dead regime be happy. The mothers, orphans and widows should celebrate the death of the buried dictator.”

        But, your argument is rock solid. Bill raped Juanita Broaddrick and assaulted dozens of other innocent females. He never had sex with Gennifer Flowers, either.

        Abortions and abuse in China must be stopped and then will throw Slick’s arse in prison. You are a true genius.

    3. Wenzel again you bring this false accusation against Bill Clinton who did a thousand worse things than that.

      The US actually had no legal duty to act in Rwanda. to stop the Interahamwe from chopping up their adversaries. Ethical duty is a question I will leave to the Pharisees.

  5. Whistle blower Ambassador Craig Murray who blew the whistle on the Bush torture and was smeared has a few thoughts on Stone

    The Roger Stone – Wikileaks – Russia Hoax 33
    Craig Murray

    “As ever, the Guardian wins the prize for the most tendentious reporting
    of Roger Stone’s conviction. This is not quite on the scale of its
    massive front page lie that Paul Manafort visited Julian Assange in the
    Ecuadorean Embassy. But it is a lie with precisely the same intent, to
    deceive the public into believing there were links between Wikileaks and
    the Trump campaign. There were no such links.

    The headline “Roger Stone: Trump Adviser Found Guilty On All Charges
    in Trump Hacking Case” is deliberately designed to make you believe a
    court has found Stone was involved in “Wikileaks hacking”. In fact this
    is the precise opposite of the truth. Stone was found guilty of lying to
    the Senate Intelligence Committee by claiming to have links to
    Wikileaks when in fact he had none. And of threatening Randy Credico to
    make Credico say there were such links, when there were not.

    It is also worth noting the trial was nothing to do with “hacking”
    and no hacking was alleged or proven. Wikileaks does not do hacking, it
    does “leaks”. The clue is in the name. The DNC emails were not hacked.
    The Guardian is fitting this utterly extraneous element into its
    headline to continue the ludicrous myth that the Clinton campaign was
    “Hacked” by “the Russians”.

    It is worth noting that not one of those convicted of charges arising
    from or in connection with the Mueller investigation – Manafort,
    Papadopolous, Stone – has been convicted of anything to do with
    Wikileaks, with anything to do with Russia or with the original thesis
    of the enquiry.

    Astonishingly, in the case of Stone, he has been convicted of saying
    that the Mueller nonsense is true, and he was a Trump/Wikileaks
    go-between, when he was not. Yet despite the disastrous collapse of the
    Mueller Report, and despite the absolutely devastating judicial ruling
    that there was no evidence worthy even of consideration in court that
    Russiagate had ever happened, the Guardian and the neo-con media in the
    USA (inc. CNN, Washington Post, New York Times) continue to serve up an
    endless diet of lies to the public.”
    https://www.craigmurray.org…

    1. Wow. Back to back wack attacks. Thanks for reporting from whatever universe you imagine you inhabit. If you gullible rubes, dupes, klan wannabees, pocket-traitors and grifters on the make are now gaming for the insanity defense, it’s way, way too late for that. We true patriots comprehensively identified the criminogenic, incompetent, small-minded tyrant-starter-kit that is the entirety of the day glo bozo. So sorry for your loss.

      this is to “I only voted for the clown because I was a battered woman” emma

      1. Emma i guess i should add I don’t know this Craig Murray but I’ll look into that. maybe thats related to the current movie the Report or whatever. But you can check on JOhn Kiriakou and we’ll both come away more educated, i hope.

      2. Karm M A:

        oh hi mark welcome back. so what’s your prediction on Roger Stone’s sentencing ? Give us a rundown under the guidelines please

      3. I voted for Sanders and Stein

        Ambassador Craig Murray blew the whistle on the USA and UK torture programs in Uzbekistan

        Craig John Murray (born 17 October 1958 is a British former diplomat turned political activist, human rights campaigner, blogger and whistleblower.

        I guess we know what you stand for

    2. actually it was CIA agent John Kiriakou who blew the whistle on the waterboarding and he did time for it.

      Unlike the current socalled CIA whistleblower who is probably raking the bucks from his sabotage. Eric Chiaramella or whatever the wispy bearded pencil necked geek’s name is.

      1. Craig Murray blew the whistle on the UK and USA torture programs in Uzbekistan

        He is British and now a human rights activist

        Obama prosecuted more whistle blowers than all other presidents combined

        1. So what can the Trump admin do to get rid of the narcissist prick, Lt.Col. Vindictiveman? He is still working in the White House.

    3. This excerpt is being repeated for Natacha’s sake:

      “It is worth noting that not one of those convicted of charges arising
      from or in connection with the Mueller investigation – Manafort,
      Papadopolous, Stone – has been convicted of anything to do with
      Wikileaks, with anything to do with Russia or with the original thesis
      of the enquiry.”

      Got that, Natacha? Not one of the Mueller convictions has anything to do with Russia. Not one.

      1. In fact, Stone’s conviction blows up the entire Mueller enquiry. Yet the media are cheering it as if it proves the opposite, which it does not. This is why you always seem so confused about the facts, Natacha.

  6. TRUMP MAY HAVE LIED ABOUT WIKILEAKS..

    IN WRITTEN ANSWERS TO MUELLER PROBE

    Impeachment investigators are exploring whether President Trump lied in his written answers to Robert S. Mueller III during the Russia investigation, a lawyer for the House told a federal appeals court on Monday, raising the prospect of bringing an additional basis for a Senate trial over whether to remove Mr. Trump.

    The statement — during a hearing in a case over the House’s request for secret grand-jury evidence gathered by Mr. Mueller — came shortly after Mr. Trump said he may provide written answers about the Ukraine affair to impeachment investigators.

    But the hearing heightened focus on House suspicions that Mr. Trump had lied to Mr. Mueller’s investigators when he provide lawyerly, written answers to some questions. Mr. Trump had refused to testify orally to the special counsel’s office about what he knew and did during the 2016 campaign in relation to Russia’s election interference operation, or his later efforts to impede the inquiry.

    In his responses, which were appended to the Mueller report, Mr. Trump denied that he was aware of any communications between his campaign and WikiLeaks. House lawyers had suggested in a Sept. 30 filing that some of the materials they were seeking bore on whether Mr. Trump was honest about that.

    On Monday, Douglas Letter, the general counsel for the House told a federal appeals court panel that impeachment investigators have an “immense” need to swiftly see the grand jury evidence — redacted portions of the Mueller report, as well as the underlying testimony transcripts they came from.

    “Was the president not truthful in his responses to the Mueller investigation?” Mr. Letter said, adding: “I believe the special counsel said the president had been untruthful in some of his answers.”

    He was referring to Mr. Mueller’s congressional testimony in July. Near the end of the hearing, a lawmaker brought up Mr. Trump’s written responses and asked whether “his answers showed that he wasn’t always being truthful.” Rather than demurring as he had to similar questions, Mr. Mueller instead appeared to confirm her assessment, responding, “I would say generally.”

    Both the lawmaker in July and Mr. Letter on Monday appeared to be referring in particular to the question of whether Mr. Trump lied about his campaign’s advance knowledge of and contacts with WikiLeaks about its possession of hacked Democratic emails and plans to publish them.

    Mr. Trump wrote that he was “not aware during the campaign of any communications” between “any one I understood to be a representative of WikiLeaks” and people associated with his campaign, including his political adviser Roger J. Stone Jr., who was convicted at trial last week for lying to congressional investigators about his efforts to reach out to WikiLeaks and his discussions with the campaign.

    “I do not recall discussing WikiLeaks with him,” Mr. Trump also wrote of Mr. Stone, “nor do I recall being aware of Mr. Stone having discussed WikiLeaks with individuals associated with my campaign.”

    But the publicly available portions of the Mueller report suggest that evidence exists to the contrary. Several Trump aides, including Michael D. Cohen and Rick Gates, testified that they heard Mr. Trump discussing coming WikiLeaks releases over the phone. And in October 2016 Stephen K. Bannon, the campaign chairman, wrote in an email that Mr. Stone had told the campaign “about potential future releases of damaging material” by WikiLeaks shortly before it began publishing more hacked emails.

    Edited from: “Impeachment Investigators Exploring Whether Trump Lied To Congress”

    Today’s New York Times

    2. You are really screwing with Trump supporters Confirmation Bias and Cognitive Dissonance with facts. They don’t pay attention anyway, but thanks for tying.

      1. “I don’t recall” is not a perjurious statement especially when you’re the busiest leader in the world.

        1. Ya, it takes a lot of effort to watch Pravda Faux News and send out tweets between the Big Macs and curly fries. In reality, the few patriots left in the West Wing keep hiding his socks in hopes he won’t leave the residential quarters.

          this is to “I think changing your mind when the facts change is the hallmark of a quitter” mespo

  7. Thank goodness for the deep state:Trump impeachment: Government deep state isn’t what you think, and America really needs it

    That is the largest, smelliest, pile of diaper filings ever foisted forth upon the readers of this blog.

    the deep state is a mass of unelected bureaucrats/functionaries that believe it is their duty to steer the ship-of-state in whichever direction they see fit regardless of the will of the people.

    the deep state and their pliably supine mandarins in congress are responsible for proliferate defense (ie war) spending that is responsible for bankrupting this nation directing finite US tax dollars to fund an unending parade of boondoggles (eg F35, LCS, Star Wars, upgrading nuclear triad, etc) at the expense of addressing real problems afflicting a great many communities across the US.

    the deep state is responsible for the series never ending worldwide coup d’etat’s that are carried out under the specious banner of democracy.

    the deep state is responsible for the creation of the worldwide total surveillance programs that eavesdrop and record every conversation/email/text sent under the guise of combating terrorism.

    the deep state is responsible for kidnapping (rendition), incommunicado/incognito detention with out charge/trial and torture programs that are still up and running across the world.

    the deep state list of malfeasance is a long tawdry affair as these examples only scratch the surface of it’s criminal misdeeds.

    the deep state and the bought, paid for and two wholly owned subsidiaries known as Democratic party and Republican party are where a large majority of the problems confronting the US today originated.

    America really needs a Government deep state like a dog needs a million fleas.

    1. Ya, people who have personally served our and given all for the United States of America for 50 years are “deep state.” Haha. Please, keep using exactly this kind of “persuasiveness” until next November. Also, Louisiana / Kentucky are meaningless….

      this is to “so what’s the big deal about a Bronze Star, I can buy one myself at the pawn shop” grata

      1. You mean the generals and others who stood with Bush to lie the world into war?

        How many wars has the USA lied us into?

        Eisenhower warned Us about the MIC as did Kennedy

        Not impressed with mass murdering people for profit and who retire into the revolving door of the military industrial complex to cash in.

        That’s called evil where I come from.

        1. You mean the generals and others who stood with Bush to lie the world into war?

          They did no such thing. You’re entire worldview is based on fiction.

          1. The war in Iraq is one that should never have been waged. We’ll be living with the fallout forever.

  8. Process crimes by ambush.

    Wasn’t that the MO of the Gestapo?

    The brave and courageous (oh, and did I say totally corrupt) FBI Gestapo gives a “milquetoast” the penalty of Drawing and Quartering – give ’em a bonus – meanwhile the “bureau” totally missed 9/11, Oklahoma City, RFK, MLK, JFK, etc. – they didn’t miss a paycheck though – all while conducting an historic coup d’etat against a duly elected President of the United States. That’s a strange form of patriotism – maybe the FBI believes patriotism to the dictatorship of global communism is its charge – Xi Jinping is a confirmed globalist and communist.

    Does anyone know how and why Christopher Wray, Mr. Deep Deep State, is sitting atop the FBI? He’s like the Deep Deep State cherry on top of American security. Christopher Wray makes the statement, ” We are the Deep Deep State, hear us roar and, oh, by the way, you can’t do anything about it – we’re the global communist ‘Swamp’ and we’re here to stay…and dictate!”

    1. “ Wasn’t that the MO of the Gestapo?” No, the term process crime wasn’t coined until this latest bunch of nazis began fumbling for a response to their unpatriotic behavior.

      1. The entire communistic American welfare state is unconstitutional. Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto 59 years after the adoption of the Constitution because none of the principles of the Communist Manifesto were in the Constitution. Had the principles of the Communist Manifesto been in the Constitution, Karl Marx would have had no reason to write the Communist Manifesto. The principles of the Communist Manifesto were not in the Constitution then and the principles of the Communist Manifesto are not in the Constitution now.

        All of you communists are not only unpatriotic but direct and mortal enemies of the U.S. Constitution.
        _______________________________________________________________________________

        “You can’t handle the truth.”

        – Colonel Jessup
        ______________

        You can’t handle the truth. You can’t grasp the comprehensive nature of the freedom of individual Americans. You can’t grasp the fact that the American Founders completely changed governance and made the People the “Sovereign” and government the “Subject” of that sovereign.

        The Constitution, with emphasis on the 9th Amendment (please read it) most certainly provides maximal freedom to individuals while it severely limits and restricts government to the role of merely facilitating the freedom of individuals through the provision of security and infrastructure.

        The absolute right to private property precludes interference by government in the possession and disposition of property, the Article 1, Section 8 restriction on Congress to tax ONLY for “…general Welfare…” omitting and, thereby, excluding any taxation for individual welfare, aka redistribution of wealth, and the Article 1, Section * restriction on Congress to regulate only “…money…” and “…commerce among the several States…” comprehensively deny and abrogate redistributive taxation and any power to regulate American free enterprise (which should self-regulate for its own good) the entire American welfare state.

        Affirmative action, quotas, welfare, food stamps, rent control, social services, forced busing, minimum wage, utility subsidies, WIC, TANF, HAMP, HARP, Dept.’s of Agriculture, Commerce, Education, Labor, Energy, Obamacare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Social Security Supplemental Income, Medicare, Medicaid, “Fair Housing” laws, “Non-Discrimination” laws, etc. are all irrefutably unconstitutional.

    2. More awesomeness. However, you neglected to mention the Trilateral Commission, Area 51, the Moon Landings, and MORE BENGHAZI HEARINGS!

      this is to “I often trade my jello to the inpatient resident next door for more internet time” paulie – georgie

  10. It is essential that Dr. T be more precise in his use of language otherwise he is clearly playing the Democrat smear game. The statement: “Stone now joins a list of former Trump associates as a convicted felon” is exactly the kind of logical fallacy used by so many in the media to stir up controversy and smear conservatives. I despise this kind of rhetoric which becomes a form of fake news because it creates a false impression. We know that Manafort and Stone were selectively prosecuted (see should be felons like Podesta, McCabe, Ohr, Steele) General Flynn was set up by many of the above, including Susan Rice, Comey and Brennan. I’m tired of someone who’s supposed to be smart acting like all of the media idiots who dont take seriously their duty to tell news not sell fake, smear stories.

    1. Triple Awsome! Thanks for checking in with today’s Pravda Faux News talking points, comrade. I regret to inform you, however, that even the gullible rubes, dupes, klan wannabees, pocket-traitors and grifters on the make are starting to jump ship. So sorry for your loss.

      this is to “man, it really sucks being the last rat on this leaky boat” sbg

  11. Why? There is nothing to stop a President from fulfilling his duties to the best of his/her abilities while impeached. Especially when the ‘grand jury indictment’ that results from the patently terrorist actions of a kangaroo court.

    The thing to watch out for is a call for the courts to not grant bail in an effort to have Pence step up and Pelosi to attempt to seize the Vice Presidency. Fat chance as you can bet the paperwork is already done to cover all eventualities.

    No matter which way the socialist party goes they are blocked and the best party they dug their own grave with this exceptionally fine craft ambush.

  12. Meanwhile, tRump has pardoned two willful murders who committed horrific war crimes. Who cares? We have become numb to his actions, and, apparently, will remain so. I do not expect Stone to do significant prison time, as most federal convicts are not permitted to remain at large prior to sentencing. She or he will give him a pass.

    1. https://www.npr.org/2019/11/15/780029994/trump-pardons-2-service-members-accused-of-war-crimes-and-restores-anothers-rank

      Chuck, you mean to say perhaps, Trump has pardoned two combat veterans who killed the enemy in a way that didn’t meet the standards of the bureaucracy

      terrible Mathew L. Golsteyn, snatched and executed a Taliban bomb-maker who had just killed two of his comrades. Golsteyn was charged for the terrible crime of executing the enemy before he had a chance to build more bombs. awful Trump let the West point grad off the hook for doing his job with extreme effectiveness.

      1. So breaking the law because of standards the military upholds with fierce determination, is just OK with you? The military just does not convict their soldiers on a whim.

        1. i’m dubious of a military that sends soldiers into “low intensity conflicts” hither and yon against various forms of non-state actors that never bother to follow any treaties or laws of war or any sort of civilized conventions in the first place, and, then, expects them to play patty-cake with their adversaries or face a court martial

          1. I have no idea what kind of pseudo-legal gobbledygook you are writing about, but this is the US military, not some 3rd rate tin dictatorship wish list like your dear leader wishes on this country.

    2. trump pardoning convicted war criminals sends a very bad signal to our own military and to others all over the world.

      1. it sends a good signal to combat operators and a bad signal to ticket punching generals and deep staters

        the message is clear enough, you just don’t understand it

      2. our military like any other organization is divided into a thousand factions to say nothing of the “IC”

        he is CIC of them all– but not all of them respect him. some of them seek to overthrow the CIC.
        they are saboteurs.

        these pardons send a very clear message if they’re understood properly

        foreigners will understand them just fine, don’t worry about them, it’s mostly certain factions of Americans that can’t decipher this.

        people who have mostly lived as ticket punchers, brown-nosers, and various sorts of pencil necked geeks like that Eric Ciaramella, that’s who’s got their knickers in a twist over those things

    3. Not in my district. In the Northern District of Texas, very few who are out on pretrial release are immediately taken into custody upon a guilty verdict. Of course, very few are ever granted pretrial release here in the first place.

      to chuck

        1. “You have no conception of what ‘war criminal’ means.

          TIA certainly doesn’t.

  13. BTW, to be clear, Stone should do time and so should anyone else who is convicted of lying to the FBI. This is not about politics. It is about the rule of law and redeeming America from the corruption destroying us faster than all out external enemies combined.

    1. why does the FBI used 302s instead of just taping interviews?

      because they can fix their records the way they want, after the fact, just maybe?

      1. Kurtz, et al;

        How is it that there can be any of these govt cases against Stone/Manaport/Flynn, etc since any evidence/cases all stem from the original illegal spying case by the govt, thus fruit of the poisonous tree?

        How/Why are all these cases being brought in DC, VA or SDNY?

        There are Fed courts across the US, even right here in Tulsa. Why not more unbiased jury pools?

        And there’s the rotation of judges in DC & this biased Obama judge getting Manaport/Stone?

        1. defendants need to make successful motions in limine to exclude evidence that they argue is “fruit of the poisoned tree” and that is not quite so easy as they make it seem on tv

          the rules for venue are what they are but generally the cases will be brought in a location where most of the important stuff happened.

          getting a change of venue is another thing a defendant can try and accomplish for various reasons but good luck with it!

          the federal government is incredibly powerful and successful in its cases against people accused of crimes.
          in 2012 they claimed they were 93% successful
          that has risen a lot over the decades.
          compare it to 99.9 for China.
          sounds different– unless you’re the accused. what’s the difference in a 1 in 20 chance versus 1 in a 1000?
          1 in 20 stinks really bad, doesn’t feel much better for someone placing a bet than 1 in a 1000
          pretty much you know you’re going to lose either way

          more than that I can’t say, I’m no expert in that wheelhouse

    2. so should anyone else who is convicted of lying to the FBI

      Why? Examine New York law. ‘Perjury’ and related charges requires you swear falsely in oral testimony, that you affix your signature to a sworn affidavit, or that you affix your signature to a document to which a jurat is ordinarily applied. This last is a misdemeanor, for which incarceration is seldom a sentence. There’s a reason you have to pass through these hoops before your activity is deemed criminal.

      And why should federal prosecutors be allowed to secure indictments for process crimes arising from investigations they’re running? This practice is a hotbed of abuse.

  14. Lawyers are required by their Canons to confront a judge engaged in misconduct. Every lawyer is guilty of lying. They do not confront what they know is universal corruption throughout our judiciary.
    Until our judicial system is cleansed of massive, unprecedented corruption, everything related to The Law in the U.S. is worthless.

  15. Slick lied repeatedly to a grand jury and the entire world. He never did a second of time and has since accumulated 100 million bucks from speaking engagements and from the sale of his autobiography.
    He pardoned his coke addicted brother and Marc Rich, who was an international fugitive. His wife donated to the Democratic National Committee, the Clinton Presidential Library and Hillary Clinton’s New York Senate campaign, and 448 other boobs.
    Slick recently lied about the murder of 800,000 black folks, saying he was unaware of their desperate plight. America should be in mourning.

    1. And Nixon was a crook, Reagan worked against the hostage release while a candidate and gave missiles to iran as president, the Elder was complicit and sired idiots to boot, one of whom lied us into a war but at least none of them got a blow job.

    1. Anonymous – Trump has been deposed a lot of times. I think he can handle himself. Depends on the rules of the game. If they are stacked against him, don’t expect him to show up. Right now he does not consider this to be legitimate, so I don’t expect to see him.

      2. Paul – Trump has been deposed lots of times, naturally, he lied all the way through his depositions. This time it would carry far more consequences. Before you ask me to document when he lied; just so you can discredit the source. Google, “Trump lies in a deposition,” and marvel at the wealth of information that comes up. At this very moment, investigators are looking into the lies he told in writing to Mueller. His lawyers insisted he add the disclaimer, “I don’t recall,” before he denied the types of behavior nobody could forget so he probably won’t be found guilty. There is no way he agrees to be questioned under oath. The only question is whether he blames Democrats or his lawyers?

        1. enigma – Judicial Watch deposed someone from the State Dept over Hillary’s emails. His every answer was “I do not recall.” Over 100 times. Why is the guy working in the government with a memory that poor?

  17. 50 year potential sentence!!!

    And Epstein got 12 months with daily release for abusing underage kids.

    Moral of the story; safer to rape kids than offend the Democratic establishment.

    Our justice system is broke.

  18. Flynn should be pardoned. Stone and Manafort should have their sentences reduced to time served.

    1. 1st I would say Roger Stone & his lawyers were ” GD Idiots” in their handling his case in public & in that court!!!

      That wacko of a judge thinks she’s such a god, after denying Stone his 1st Amd for months leading up to trial, she can now even gag family, friends & press ‘s 1st amendment Rights after the trial. Much of nothing from Turley about that lil issue of blanket gags by an Obama Judge that also Ph’kd over Manafort that I think is still Tortured by being thrown in hole while the his Clinton boss, Tony/John Podesta, that were engaged in the same biz they are still uncharged & walking free.

      What about that Stacked Jury, suppression of exculpatory evidence.

      After 4 years of investigations & trials if Turley or anyone else has any evidence at all Clinton’s Emails were Hacked Prove it in Public or shut up about it!

      Evidence continues to point the Emails were Leaked & not by Russia.

      Turley’s focus of facts of these cases atrocious! Maybe he’s on something like Lithium that’s making him a bit loopy?

      “According to far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, Stone”

      Stone was working for Jones at the time he/wife was Swat Teamed by Obama’s people in the FBI & DOJ.

      Jones & Trump are both in his circle of friends.

      Also it’s boring & tiring of P Turley’s repeated Condescending nature towards us the American people that have as our voice Prez Trump & Alex Jones & crew. To be clear P Turley is Attacking us citizens when he misleads, lies or leaves out facts about or other wise attacks the many more then the 63 million that are either Jones/Infowars supporters & the larger group that voted for Trump.

      Yes I’m sure that if one was an American hating Commie loving Authoritarian type they might see the people Jones works for & Jones & crew for as “Far Right Conspiracy Theorist”.

      Because it’s a “Conspiracy Theory” that Water is Wet, that the Sky is blue when it is blue & the sun is shinning or that the flag waves when the wind blows, Right?

      You think just maybe many people are now long past the CIA’s (JFK, matter of public record), cheap brainwashing trick of calling people that ask real questions “Conspiracy Theorist”???

      1. The larger group that voted for President Trump was larger than both the GOP vote aka never trumpers and RINOs and larger than the Socialist vote that even if they had the Klein and Sanders factions still could not have got as high as the needed 50% plus one.

        .

        1. Knowing some of what’s happened since electronic voting/motor voter, etc., came in decades ago, Trump or someone earlier should have already came out with some different under a National Security issue, safer the then Everify that requires a set of Fed guidelines that states have to meet that verifies 1st that the individual is a citizen or not & that it must be presented when voting.

          I don;t want Everify, that’s that damn Mark Of The Beast, a federal data base, a state data base is bad enough.

          That the voting machines have hardcopy results, that are auditable, that are publicly counted reported from each precinct election night or count not stopped until counting is done so that the state election boards can no longer play their games rigging.

          That the voting rolls are constantly audited agianst the fraud, etc…

    2. I can tell you that without any doubt whatsoever, federal judges are afraid of no one. There’s a saying around the fed crime shop that “the only difference between God and a federal district judge is that the judge has more power on earth.”

      this is to “but that’s not how hannity said it” paulie – georgie

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