Schiff Under Fire For Denying Any Knowledge Of FBI Abuses

Various commentators, including Fox News senior political analyst Brit Hume, have expressed disbelief with the statement of House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif., on Fox News Sunday that he had no idea of the extensive FISA abuse found by Inspector General Michael Horowitz. I share that view. Schiff’s predecessor at the House Intelligence Committee, Devin Nunes, raised many of these abuses which were adamantly denied by Schiff for months. The media for its part virtually mocked such claims as conspiracy theories and false news. Now the media and Schiff is claiming total surprise by the findings (if they acknowledge them at all). The lack of media scrutiny over Schiff’s denial is breathtaking and explains why many voters do not trust reporting over the various investigations.

In his interview on “Fox News Sunday,” Schiff told Chris Wallace there were “serious abuses of FISA that I was unaware of . . . Had I known of them, Chris, yes, I would’ve called out the FBI at the same time. But I think it’s only fair to judge what we knew at the time.”

That is one of the more extraordinary statements to come out of these scandals. Schiff spent two years swatting back these claims and was repeatedly confronted with them by their prior Chair of the Committee. Schiff not only showed little interest in confirming the allegations but assured the public that they were meritless. Yet, the media has, again, simply taken his statement as somehow manifestly true.

Hume took after Schiff over the statement:

“One of the most striking things about this IG report … is how closely it mirrors what the Devin Nunes investigation — when Nunes was still chairman and Schiff was ranking member on the intelligence committee — what Nunes found and what he said about the FISA abuses, and so on — to which, this very same Adam Schiff issued a report and rebuttal, which disputed the Nunes findings — findings now confirmed by the IG report.”

For those of us who have been commenting on these controversies, there have been ample reports about the omissions in the FISA application and the lack of evidence supporting the allegations against figures like Carter Page, the subject of a recent column.

What is equally disturbing and baffling is President Donald Trump’s most recent attack on Fox for even interviewing figures like Schiff. Even if one puts aside the continued attacks on the free press and its obligation to hear all sides of these controversies, President Trump could at least recognize that such interviews tend to expose inconsistencies and falsehoods. Wallace supplied a probing and substantive interview — precisely what Trump has argued is missing in much of the coverage.

535 thoughts on “Schiff Under Fire For Denying Any Knowledge Of FBI Abuses”

    1. Anonymous,
      “Are you sure that you’re not a Quaker, or Amish?😉”

      No, but I sometimes wish I was Amish. Technology chaps my hide sometimes. 🙂

  1. Prairie, my honest conclusion which is way broader than our mutual discussions is:

    Even the Ten Commandments seem not to be sacred any longer.

    Thou shalt not kill has become:
    Thou shalt not be rude

    I believe you to be sincere in what you say and have agreement with you but I listen and then look around at the world seeing the slaughter of Christians throughout the Middle East without a concerted objection from the Christian leadership to stop it.

    1. Allan,
      “Even the Ten Commandments seem not to be sacred any longer.

      Thou shalt not kill has become:
      Thou shalt not be rude”

      Seems a bit extreme to me, especially since the Torah and the Tanakh both warn to guard one’s tongue.

      “I believe you to be sincere in what you say and have agreement with you but I listen and then look around at the world seeing the slaughter of Christians throughout the Middle East without a concerted objection from the Christian leadership to stop it.”

      Failing to muster a concerted objection is not a sign of civility or a lack of rudeness.

      There are quite a few Christian leaders of the many denominations and non-denominational churches. Perhaps the news is not adequately covering people’s objections. People are encouraged to petition the government to try to address this widespread problem. People also donate to Open Doors to try to track and addres sthe problem

      1. “Seems a bit extreme to me, especially since the Torah and the Tanakh both warn to guard one’s tongue.”

        Not sure why you think it is a bit extreme. You said one shouldn’t be rude because man is made in God’s image but based on your words that civility lasts until one kills the same man who is also made in God’s image. There are intermediary non religious steps that are lacking. There should be more thought attached that doesn’t require religious dogma.

        That is why I prefer not to mix religion with our present discussion. You can end up in a difficult place. Maybe someone will quote from the Koran, will you be satisfied? Koran 5:60: “Jews and Christians are like pigs and monkeys” That is an insult but then there are other verses ordering killing Koran 2:191 “Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.

        “Failing to muster a concerted objection is not a sign of civility or a lack of rudeness. ………”

        Again your answer involved “petition the government You also included donating to charity which is fine. How much effort has the Pope put in or any of the leadership of the various Christian sects. I would think we would be reading about the slaughter of Christians in the middle east but we aren’t.

        1. Allan,
          The commandment is more accurately translated as ‘Thou shalt not murder.’ Prager has talked about this.

          ” You said one shouldn’t be rude because man is made in God’s image but based on your words that civility lasts until one kills the same man who is also made in God’s image.”

          You are allowed to defend yourself, even to the death, though that should be avoided if at all possible.

          “There are intermediary non religious steps that are lacking.” That part of the discussion was originally about values. My values inform my steps.

          “Again your answer involved “petition the government”

          Of course. That is the appropriate scale for international issues. I donate to organizations that help, such as the one I mentioned. What else do you suggest?

          I agree with you that this problem should be more widely reported. Some news has been published in major newspapers, but it doesn’t seem to have reached the level of broader societal awareness.

          1. Yes murder is more correct than kill and if it soothes your conscience that is fine.

            “You are allowed to defend yourself, even to the death, though that should be avoided if at all possible.”

            Prairie, the logic is, if a man threatens your life with a gun you can pick up a gun but if a man threatens your life (integrity) with a word you have to be more well mannered. That is one opinion.

            Again I am noting that you are handing-off your responsibility. It’s good to petition the government but there is more than just petitioning.

  2. Prairie, the following is a random headline that comes from CNN:

    “There was an attack on Jewish New Yorkers almost every day last week. Police are investigating these as possible hate crimes”

    Anti-Semitic attack across the nation are frequent. I am sure you already are aware of the huge numbers of Christians being exterminated throughout the middle east. Lebanon previously was was mostly Christian. It is “ a crime to be a Christian” in some areas of the world.

    I will copy most of an email I just received. It was from the Conference of Jewish Affairs.

    Time for African-American, Latino, and Muslim Communities to Root Out the Jew-Hatred That is
    Spurring Attacks on Jews in the New York Metropolitan Area

    For Immediate Release

    Contact: Rabbi Spero (212) 252-6861

    December 29, 2019 — Conference of Jewish Affairs spokesman Rabbi Aryeh Spero released the following statement today:

    “Virtually every recent stabbing and attack on Jews in New York City and the metropolitan area has been perpetrated by a black, Hispanic or sympathizers with jihad. It is time for leaders of those communities to admit to anti-Semitism within their midst and STOP it. Time for truth telling. Perpetrators must be punished.

    “New York’s extremely liberal politicians speak about anti-Semitism, but are not using anywhere near the force of law to bring these perpetrators to justice. In fact, we’re hearing that last week’s attackers against Jews, who were black or Hispanic, have already been released and are back on the streets.

    “Much of the hatred against Jewish people is being fueled by jihadist talk, and yet, because of political correctness, authorities are not doing the pre-reconnaissance that common sense dictates.

    “We have heard the evasive platitudes about ‘extremism’, ‘intolerance’, ‘hate’, but what we are witnessing in these attacks is raw anti-Semitism, specifically against Jews. Call it what it is! New York’s liberal politicians want us to believe that this is coming from a climate of ‘extremism’ and ‘white supremacists’, whereas in the metro area it is a Jew-hatred being fomented within the minority communities.

    “The major Jewish organizations have failed the Jewish community by not calling out or pressuring the minority communities responsible for these attacks. They are wedded to liberalism’s clichés and goals and, even now, routinely choose their partnerships with minority communities over the safety of Jewish individuals.

    “Unfortunately, the Democrat Party knows that the Jewish community will remain an enthusiastic constituency even though the Party is silent while anti-Semitism grows within its midst, as seen with Omar, Tlaib, Ocasio-Cortez and other outspoken members of their caucuses. The Jewish Community is relinquishing its leverage in service to its undying infatuation with liberalism and the Democrat Party.

    “Many of the policies of the mainstream liberal Jewish organizations are militating against solving this crisis:

    Ø they have been backers of open borders;

    Ø they have been against necessary vetting of those coming from Muslim countries;

    Ø they are against what they call ‘profiling’;

    Ø they are for ‘bail reform’ leading to immediate release of suspects; and

    Ø they are the first to call ‘racist’ anyone who asks the minority communities to begin fighting the anti-Semitism in their midst.

    “Friends: the time for feel-good ‘dialogue’ is over. Jewish organizations must get past worrying more about the sensitivities of other minorities and their leaders over the lives and safety of the Jewish people.

    “People ask: why is there not an outcry over the daily violence against Jews as there would be if the targets were black, Muslim, or LGTB? The answer is that the high-profile mainstream liberal Jewish organizations that often spearhead public outcries when minorities are attacked are far less angered when similar attacks happen against Jews if the perpetrators are from minority groups. If these attackers in the NYC metro area had been white or Christian, the establishment liberal Jewish organizations and political leaders definitely would be howling and using the opportunity to condemn America and its way of life.

  3. Prairie, here is an international example: (I am providing examples just from today’s news.)
    —–

    In Iran, It Is a Crime to Be a Christian
    by Majid Rafizadeh • December 29, 2019 at 5:00 am

    Facebook Twitter WhatsApp Telegram Send Print
    Three of the Islamist judges known to preside over the trials of Christians are Mashallah Ahmadzadeh, Mohammed Moghiseh, and Ahmad Zargar. The international community needs to consider imposing sanctions on them.

    Converts to Christianity from Islam, according the Iran’s Islamic law, can face the death penalty. The Iranian Islamist judges generally resort to verses from the Quran and Hadith (Muhammad’s sayings and acts) to justify their verdicts.

    Iran systematically violates the U.S. International Religious Freedom Act and this is why, since 1999, the U.S. has designated the Islamic Republic as a “Country of Concern.”

    Under international law, the Iranian government has an obligation to respect freedom of religion. Yet, while Christians are being increasingly persecuted and their rights are violated in Iran at an unprecedented level, the international community still remains silent.

    continued at: https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15229/iran-christians-persecution

  4. Prairie, in light of our discussions I thought you might find this NYTimes article interesting along with responding to one of your prior requests.
    ——
    Monsey Stabbing: 5 Wounded at Rabbi’s Home in N.Y. Suburb
    By Rebecca Liebson, Neil Vigdor, Michael Gold and Eliza Shapiro
    Updated Dec. 29, 2019, 9:31 a.m. ET
    DEVELOPING

    The governor called the violence an “act of domestic terrorism” after a suspect was arrested in Harlem.

    People were celebrating Hanukkah on Saturday night at the home of Rabbi Chaim Rottenberg in Monsey, N.Y., when an intruder attacked, officials said.
    People were celebrating Hanukkah on Saturday night at the home of Rabbi Chaim Rottenberg in Monsey, N.Y., when an intruder attacked, officials said.Mohamed Sadek for The New York Times
    MONSEY, N.Y. — An intruder with a large knife burst into the home of a Hasidic rabbi in a New York suburb on Saturday night, stabbing and wounding five people just as they were gathering to light candles for Hanukkah, officials and a witness said.

    It was a terrifying scene, the officials and witness reported, saying that the violence occurred at about 10 p.m. as numerous people were celebrating Hanukkah at the home of the rabbi, Chaim Rottenberg, in Monsey, which is in an area with a large population of ultra-Orthodox Jews.

    Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, visiting the rabbi’s home on Sunday morning, called the attack an “act of domestic terrorism.”

    The New York Police Department said a suspect had been arrested in Harlem and was turned over to the authorities in Rockland County, which is northwest of New York City and where the attack took place.

    The suspect was not immediately identified.

    A witness, Aron Kohn, 65, who said he was in the rabbi’s home at the time, recalled that the rabbi was near the Hanukkah candles when the intruder stormed in.

    “I was praying for my life,” Mr. Kohn said. “He started attacking people right away as soon as he came in the door. We didn’t have time to react at all.”

    “We saw him pull a knife out of a case,” Mr. Kohn said. “It was about the size of a broomstick.”

    Mr. Kohn said that after the attacker fled, he tried to enter a synagogue next door, Congregation Netzach Yisroel, which is led by Rabbi Rottenberg.

    But people inside the synagogue apparently heard screams from the rabbi’s home and, fearful, locked the door so the attacker could not get in, Mr. Kohn said.

    OJPAC Hudson Valley Region
    @OJPACHV
    At 9:50 this eve, a call came in about a mass stabbing at 47 Forshay Road in Monsey (Rockland County; 30 miles North of NYC). It’s the house of a Hasidic Rabbi. 5 patients with stab wounds, all Hasidic, were transported to local hospitals.

    394
    10:34 PM – Dec 28, 2019
    Twitter Ads info and privacy

    552 people are talking about this

    Michael B. Specht, town supervisor for Ramapo, which includes Monsey, said the suspect had been arrested in New York City in the 32nd Precinct, which covers Harlem.

    Harlem is about 30 miles away from Monsey.

    “Obviously, there’s been a history in the region of violent attacks upon the Orthodox community,” Mr. Specht said. “This is something very nightmarish to have happen in our town.”

    Yossi Gestetner, a co-founder of the Orthodox Jewish Public Affairs Council, a group that covers New York and New Jersey, said one of the victims was the rabbi’s son.

    “The house had many dozens of people in there,” Mr. Gestetner said in a phone interview. “It was a Hanukkah celebration.”

    Peggy Green, a Monsey resident who is Jewish, said she was at the Evergreen Kosher Market at around 10 p.m. when she heard that there had been a stabbing nearby on Forshay Road.

    Ms. Green said the market, which is usually open until midnight on Saturdays and was busy with people shopping for Hanukkah parties, closed early.

    Ms. Green, who lives nearby, said she tried to drive near the rabbi’s home but found Forshay Road blocked off by a long line of ambulances and police cars.

    “It’s very scary,” she said, of being Jewish in Rockland County, adding that she thinks synagogues should have more armed security.

    Ed Day, county executive for Rockland County, condemned the attack.

    “Law enforcement in Rockland will leave no stone unturned as they bring those guilty of this crime to swift and severe justice,” Mr. Day said in a statement.

    Governor Cuomo said he had ordered the State Police hate crimes task force to investigate the stabbings.

    The attack came after a surge in anti-Semitic violence in the New York region. On Friday, the police in New York City stepped up patrols in three Brooklyn neighborhoods after what officials called an “alarming” increase in incidents.

    Last month, an Orthodox Jewish man was stabbed just steps away from a local synagogue as he was walking to morning prayers. The synagogue’s surveillance cameras showed a vehicle stopping near the man and then the attack on him, according to a manager there.

    No one has been charged in that attack, and officials have not determined that it was a bias crime.

    Rockland County, a collection of five towns northwest of New York City, has more than 300,000 people. About 31 percent of the population is Jewish, according to the state, and the county has one of the largest concentrations of ultra-Orthodox Jews in the country.

    The ultra-Orthodox population has surged in recent years as Hasidic families from Queens and Brooklyn, priced out of their neighborhoods, moved to the suburbs.

    “The community is terrified,” said Evan Bernstein, the New York regional director of the Anti-Defamation League, who was at the crime scene in Monsey on Saturday night. “They are very, very scared.”

    Orthodox Jews in Monsey were already rattled by recent assaults against Jews that took place in the last week in Brooklyn, as well as a deadly anti-Semitic shooting at a kosher market in Jersey City this month, he said.

    Three people, two of them Orthodox Jews, were killed at the market, which was at the center of a growing Hasidic Jewish community in Jersey City.

    Officials later declared the attack an act of domestic terrorism and said it was fueled by the assailants’ anti-Semitic beliefs.

    While officials have not yet said whether they are investigating the stabbing on Saturday night as a hate crime, Mr. Bernstein said Orthodox community members he had spoken with felt the circumstances made them feel as though they were being targeted.

    “This spate of assaults that we saw this past week was unlike anything I’ve experienced in my six and a half years at the A.D.L.,” he said. “And then, to have that really bookended with what happened in Jersey City and now, here in Monsey.”

      1. This just demonstrates how stupid you really are. You accept anything without using your brain to think if it is true.

        1) It has been shown that what some call right wing extremists have ideologies most similar to the left.
        2) Many extremists have been mislabeled on purpose. Example: the Fort Hood shooting.
        3) Though not a killing, the article to which you are responding, “Monsey Stabbing: 5 Wounded at Rabbi’s Home in N.Y. Suburb” was performed by one from Harlem. Do you think he was a right wing extremist?
        4) The Parkland shooter was a crazy who was protected by the left from being punished for many many bad acts. The left’s Promise Program can be blamed for the Parkland shooting. The left wing Sheriff and his department can be blamed for not acting to decrease the injury during the shooting. The left wing school boards positions both pre and post shooting are proximate causes for that violence and future violence.
        5) The Pittsburgh massacre was by an extremist who was an anti-Semite. Antisemitism is very prominent on the left. It is reported the shooter shouted “All Jews must die!”.
        6) He claimed his actions were defensive against Jews because he was just as stupid as you.
        7) The number of so called “extremist deaths” in 2018 was 40-50 and some were crazy, some on the left and some on the right. It’s mostly BS which is what Anon feeds on. So far 508 people have been killed in Chicago alone most of them young. You have your brains in a place that is generally unseen

          1. Allan’a just another two-bit blog commenter. He’s a schmuck who thinks he’s a real tough guy when, in fact, he’s just one more toxic and abusive guy living on the internet. He’s a wimp.

            1. Anonymous the Stupid the sewer is filled with guys like you. Say what you wish about me. Your words speak loud and clear telling us you are Mindless and Stupid. You can’t distance yourself from what you have said.

              1. “You can’t distance yourself from what you have said.”

                ??

                This is what I’ve said:

                “Allan’a just another two-bit blog commenter. He’s a schmuck who thinks he’s a real tough guy when, in fact, he’s just one more toxic and abusive guy living on the internet. He’s a wimp.”

                No need or desire to distance myself from that.

                You’re a name-calling clown. Guys like you are a dime a dozen.

                1. Anonymous the Stupid, you have a long record of not saying much of anything. Everyone can see that by reviewing everything you have said in the past. Accept the fact that you are Mindless and Stupid, then try and better yourself.

        1. Allan,
          While there is a spectrum of backgrounds for mass shooters, the Pittsburgh Tree of Life Synagogue shooter was a white supremacist as well as an anti-Semite.

          Ben Shapiro commented:
          “In October 2018, during Sabbath morning services, a white supremacist attacked the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, murdering 11 people and wounding another six.”
          https://www.heraldextra.com/news/opinion/national-editorials/shapiro-when-anti-semitism-doesn-t-matter/article_10532db3-b13e-55e9-970b-867016dfcccc.html

          The rest of the article does examine the inconveniently diverse backgrounds of the anti-Semitic attackers.

          1. “While there is a spectrum of backgrounds for mass shooters, the Pittsburgh Tree of Life Synagogue shooter was a white supremacist as well as an anti-Semite.”

            Prairie, did I say he wasn’t a white supremacist? No. But I also pointed out that the white supremacist’s ideological talking points other than hate frequently come from the left. That was to correct the erroneous statement by Anon. I am not sure what you were trying to tell me.

            1. Allan,
              It was unclear to me. It seemed like you were contradicting ‘bythebook”s assertion that the Tree of Life shooter was a white supramacist.

              “5) The Pittsburgh massacre was by an extremist who was an anti-Semite. Antisemitism is very prominent on the left. It is reported the shooter shouted “All Jews must die!””

              All you say here is extremist; however, the guy fits not only into the anti-Semite bucket but also into the white supremacist bucket due to a particular vein of extremist beliefs.

              You, Shapiro, and I agree that violent extremism can be from the right or the left and by people of many different backgrounds.

              1. No, Prairie I wasn’t indicating anything of the kind. He was a white supremacist who was an anti-Semite and you are very correct, “Antisemitism is very prominent on the left.”

                The question I wonder about is why only white supremacists are considered abhorrent. Think of Farrakhan and how politically he is insulated from attack. Ben Shapiro is a smart fellow

      2. The referenced report is from the Jewish Anti-Defamation league ans has been supported by FBI head Wray in congressional testimony.

        The Pittsburgh assassin was a regular participant in alt right blogs where besides attacking Jews he voiced opposition to George Soros and Central American immigrants while praising neo-Nazis and the Proud Boys.

        1. “The referenced report is from the Jewish Anti-Defamation league ”

          Anon, the ADL fell into disrepute except to leftists even at the end of Abe Foxman’s leadership. Now with Jonathan Greenblatt in control it is no longer the previously respected ADL of decades ago.

          The referenced report was not supported by the ADL or the FBI. Show us where either of the two stated they supported this particular article. They didn’t. You are mindless in the way you manage your data.

          ” where besides attacking Jews he voiced opposition to George Soros and Central American immigrants while praising neo-Nazis and the Proud Boys.”

          You and the anti-Semitic killer share something in common. You are both stupid. No one said he wasn’t a racist. After all he was an anti-Semite and the vast majority of anti-Semitism eminates form the the left and the Democratic Party. Take note of some of the comments by Ihlan Omar left to stand in the Democratic Party. AllanNazi = National Socialism and the party in Germany was strongly influenced by the communists.You probably have a lot in common with this joker. You are both abusive.

      1. I bet this source reviews the anonymous sources from the Washington Post as experts.

        Today the SPLC is one of the leading hate groups. They will go after any group that isn’t on the left. Anonymous the Stupid will do the same.

      2. From USA Today

        “The SPLC has its own troubles

        These shameful secrets are no longer hidden in shadows. The New York Times, Politico, NPR and a host of other mainstream publications are reporting on the corruption and widening credibility gap. The SPLC dismissed its co-founder in March, and its president has resigned amidst numerous claims of sexual harassment, gender discrimination and racism within the organization — a parade of disgraces that vividly force the conclusion: The SPLC is hollow, rotten and failing at the very virtues it pretends to celebrate.

        The criticism comes from many corners. There’s the Current Affairs editor who seems sympathetic to the center’s progressive mission but decries its “hate group” list as an “outright fraud” and a “willful deception designed to scare older liberals into writing checks to the SPLC.”

        There’s the retired investigative journalist who helped research and write an eight-part series on the center’s “litany of problems and questionable practices” in the mid-1990s. His Washington Post opinion piece reads with a thinly veiled message: We nearly got a Pulitzer Prize for TELLING YOU SO.

        But perhaps most damning of all are the indictments leveled by former employee Bob Moser in The New Yorker. He remembers being welcomed to the “Poverty Palace” and recounts the heart-sinking reality of it all — being “pawns” in a “highly profitable scam.”…

          1. Anonymous the Stupid, the hate map of the SLPC is contrived. Their reputation has been shattered but with all the money they have accumulated they scare turkeys like you. The key to recognizing the BS behind the claims of the SLPC is that they cannot make the claim with facts for they don’t have them against the legitimate organizations that are on their list. I beleive we are now seeing suits against them.

    1. It’s easy to talk and demean. It is much harder to prove your case.The Washington Post has had on average at least one major story a day about Trump that has been loaded with error or outright lies that can be proven to be lies. Yet that is not your interest. You prefer to attack from the sewer to defame people that do not agree with you. AS far as actually reading the content and arguing with what the book actually says, that is beyond your abilities. Do you wish to take issue with the quotes provided? The legislation or any tangible things that proves Horowitz’s case? You can’t. You are an abysmal failure.

      1. “It’s easy to talk and demean.” (Allan @ 10:24 pm on Dec 28th)

        Allan has stated his very own M.O.

        1. Anonymous the Stupid. You demean. I state the facts. You have proven yourself stupid and mindless on this blog over and over again.

  5. Prairie, earlier you asked me for some sources. Since you are a Christian mom I thought this book Dark Agenda: The War to Destroy Christian America written in 2018 might answer a lot of your questions. I mentioned earlier that it is written by one of the Jewish faith. I had put it away for later reading but our discussion moved this book higher in the lists so I scanned it and right off the bat chapter one seems to answer some of your questions and pages 148-151 provides some examples of how our government under Obama “was relentless in casting religious institutions and individuals as bigots and seeking to stifle religious voices.

    If you are interested in the book I’ll send it to you from Amazon at my cost if you can figure an acceptable way for them to mail it withought compromising your anonymity. I get sent free books all the time so consider it a free one to you while I am paying for my own.

    1. Allan,
      Thank you for the offer. That is very thoughtful of you. My library system does have several copies, so I can get it for free there, too. 🙂

      P.S. I am mostly Methodist and mostly Christian, but not exactly. I preferentially listen to Torah Means Teacher and Dennis Prager. I remarked to Mespo once that I do not fit in with the Unitarians either. 🙂

      1. “P.S. I am mostly Methodist and mostly Christian, but not exactly. I preferentially listen to Torah Means Teacher and Dennis Prager.”

        This will show why bringing in religion isn’t always a good thing in a discussion of the nature we are having ie. rudeness. Prager is great. His videos are mostly secular and don’t generally quote scripture such as Man is made in God’s image.

        Since you brought up Methodists and though I like people that are methodists, one might want to say the leadership of the Church is rude (correct me if I am wrong). They support BDS but not as much support to Christians being killed. Their basis for such support is fallacious legally. Perhaps it is best to keep religion out of the picture unless specifically discussing religion. I recognize the judeo Christian and Greek influence on our culture.

        1. Allan,
          I mostly listen to Prager’s Ultimate Issues Hour material or his Fireside Chats podcast.

          I am at fault for not paying sufficient attention to the leadership of the Methodist Church. My focus has been at the local church level. They are all very different from one another–not monolithic at all. Some churches are very liberal; others are pretty traditional. Mine is much more traditional.

          I brought up religion (my belief in God) because of how it helps to inform my values. It is not the only thing that does (e.g., also the Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence), but it plays a very important role.

          1. “I am at fault for not paying sufficient attention to the leadership of the Methodist Church.”

            Prairie, that is a problem when one belongs to a group. The group leadership can have a heinous attitude that can appear to rub off on everybody. One could say that they are being rude. I wish the Church leadership would alter its opinion but I guess that depends on the people within the movement.

  6. Prairie, in light of our discussion and recognizing that Turely is center left I thought this morning’s tweet by Truley was quite enlightening:

    “The Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt not testify for Republicans”

    His article published in the Hill demonstrates how awful the left can be without concern for truth or accuracy about what Turley wrote.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/476088-testifying-for-republicans-should-not-be-a-sin-for-academics

  7. Prairie Rose,
    I’ve looked at part of your exchange with Allan and J’dike to take the liberty of weighing in.
    It’s true that when logic/ reason does not work, that “throwing around insults” doesn’t help.
    There comes a point where I’m not trying to “help” an obnoxious ignoramus.
    So I may “help” myself by taking a few shots at him/ her.
    ( That was figuratively speaking; Phillip Peter, do not report me to Darren).

    1. Anonymous,
      “So I may “help” myself by taking a few [figurative] shots at him/ her.”

      I don’t think it really helps you either to do that. It’s poisonous to yourself, as well.

      1. Good luck with some of these folks, Prairie Rose. I think it might be a losing battle.

        The insults that are lobbed are counterproductive and childish.

      2. Praire Rose,
        I happened to catch your response to the comment I made over 10 days ago.
        Yes, it does help. And no, it is not “poisonous” to me. I have developed immunity to that.

        1. Anonymous,
          I am sorry to reply so late. I did not see it right away.

          How do you think it helps?

          What are you ‘immunized’ against?

          1. Prairie Rose,
            If you look at the comments from the slimy anonymous, accusing me of drinking but adding nothing, that anonymous got the appropriate resonses.
            Which I think is helpful. This is not the first time, by far, that the anonymous with that same pattern have made the same kind of comments.
            I may left a few comments from a jackass like that slide, but eventually I will probably point out what a jackass he is.
            As far as the immunity, scum like that are a dime a dozen, so one does build up an immunity to repeated comments from a POS like that.
            That does not necessarily mean that I won’t mention that anonymous at 1:01 AM is a POS.

            1. Praire Rose,
              I don’t believe in being nice to a passive- aggressive putz like the anonymous who last commented at 4:31 AM.
              There are about a half dozen or so in these threads who post as anonymous.
              It’s fairly easy to recognize a few of them for there consistent patterns.
              The other anonymous is often referred to as “Anonymous the Stupid”, although I think that “Anonymous the Slimey” is a better choice.
              There are a few people here who like to start arguments; that is their exclusive purpose in posting comments here.
              One thing that Anonymous the Slimey likes to do is mention the “civility code” after he starts an argument, then gets insulted in return.
              The other distinctive feature of the slimy anonymous is that he’ll post links to part of an exchange on a thread, and play the victim because he found that the insults can travel both ways.
              As far as your point….. whether throwing insults back at those who play those kind of games does “any good”…..it really doesn’t matter much if one is nice to people like that, or if one expresses the contempt that they’ve earned.
              Neither approach is likely to “do any good” as far as changing that person’s pattern of behavior, which is to pick a fight, then act like a victim.
              If that anonymous, who has a long history here of playing the same kind of games, wants to work that hard at being a slimeball, you can play nice or give the slimeball credit for being slimey.
              Neither approach is “wrong”, but neither approach is “helpful” with respect to changing that person’s pattern of slithering on to these threads for the exclusive purpose of picking fights.

              1. “Anonymous says: January 5, 2020 at 7:47 AM … There are a few people here who like to start arguments; that is their exclusive purpose in posting comments here.”

                So it seems.

                “Anonymous says: January 5, 2020 at 7:47 AM … As far as your point….. whether throwing insults back at those who play those kind of games does “any good”…..it really doesn’t matter much if one is nice to people like that”

                It does matter very much. Words have a ripple effect for good or for ill. Everyone is affected. The tone of the thread is affected by the words people choose. It certainly doesn’t do any harm if one is civil.

                1. That’s where we differ, Praire Rose. I don’t see any reason to be tactful or civil toward someone who has gone out of their way to earn my contempt.
                  That takes some doing, and if someone works long enough and hard enough to for me to view them with contempt, I’m willing to give them what they’ve “earned”.

  8. I appreciate your columns and am embarrassed by how the comments inevitably devolve into name calling. I hope you continue to observe and comment, as so far, you are one of a few who is not so pissed he/she cannot think straight.

  9. There House of Lies about to
    Come crashing down.
    Fisa Court about to come knocking on
    Comey’s door followed by Durham’s Report.

  10. Seems everyday, someone on the left shoots themselves in the foot. Chronic lying seems to be a disease inflecting many more people on the left.

  11. I rely on people like you, the few people I trust, to give it to me straight. Thank you and please keep it up.

  12. Walter Allen was convicted of treason on September 16, 1922 for taking part in the 1921 Miner’s March with the coal companies and the US Army on Blair Mountain, West Virginia. He was sentenced to 10 years and fined. During his appeal to the Supreme Court he disappeared while out on bail. United Mineworkers of America leader William Blizzard was acquitted of the charge of treason by the jury on May 25, 1922.[13]

  13. Entities posting as “Anonymous” are ignored. So is George and often PCS.]

    1. David, I listen intently to everyone of Paul’s, PCS, postings. They are enlightening and seek the truth. The latter is important and as an upstanding citizen Paul continues to post sometimes repetitively in an attempt to seek the truth. That should make you happy but somehow it seems that you are not. What are you hiding?

    1. Treason is defined in the Constitution. As there is no declared state of war he cannot be guilty.

      Didn’t you learn that in your 7th grade civics class?

      1. As there is no declared state of war he cannot be guilty.

        Oh, they can be guilty, perhaps not of treason, but certainly a crime.

        Anyway, I believe you just explained why Congress no longer exercises their Art. I power to declare war. All of their progressive efforts to transform this constitutional republic into something else would be prosecutable as treason, if we were in a declared war.

        I’m now in favor of declaring war and remaining in it…until the administrative state is destroyed. 😎

        1. The last time war was declared was in 1941 and then the administrative state rapidly grew. Be careful what you wish for…

            1. John Brown was convicted of treason and executed in 1859.
              ( The Civil War started in 1861).
              Treason charges are rare, but there have been treason convictions in the absence of a declared war.
              Speaking as though he is knowledgeable does not mean that Benson knows what he’s talking about.

              1. Well, John Brown was the enemy there. Captured by Lt. Col. Robert E. Lee.he was tried for treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia under Virginia law.

                1. Mark, does that mean you can be convicted of treason against your state without being in a declared war, but for treason against our country, we have to be in a declared war?

    1. do something useful David besides needling Trump, and find a pdf link to this article as a whole please because i can only find abstracts and I’d like to read it

      that can be your contribution to disseminating Jim Short’s work

      SociologyPublished 2018
      DOI:10.1007/s12115-018-0247-9
      Antifa, Street Gangs, and the Importance of Group Processes
      James F. Short, Lorine A. Hughes

  14. Karen S, to continue from below: I doubt that those inner city young men think that they are ruining their lives.

    Locally, Jim Short is a famous sociologist, famous for his work on inner city Chicago. Try reading at least one of his books.

    Similarly there is the Mafia in Southern Italy. The government has been trying to end it for 80 years; still there.

    More, it spread to Manhattan and infects real estate there. So Fred Trump was infected, which means his son Donald…

    1. David, do you have any idea of what you are talking about? Is this stuff sleep writing insted of talking in one’s sleep? You are quite bizarre.

      1. Allan is in deep denial.

        Might like to find the song that Woody Guthrie wrote about Fred Trump, from whom he rented an apartment.

            1. David, you can think whatever you wish. You can always blame it on being in your second childhood.

                1. There is a difference between being ” precociuos” and being the Village Idiot.
                  Benson does not know the difference.

    2. More, it spread to Manhattan and infects real estate there. So Fred Trump was infected, which means his son Donald…
      *************************
      Oh, a sins of the father kinda guy. What century do you live in David?

        1. That may be “enough” for a simpleton like Benson, but let’s see a comprehensive list of all who “did real estate in Manhattan”.
          If “that’s enough” for Benson, I’m sure that he’s thoroughly researched the subject.
          And enough for that fool to provide a citation listing all who were guilty if they “did real estate in Manhattan”.

        2. Does Benson go out of his way to make stupid, unsupported accusations?
          Or does it just come naturally to him?

      1. Mespo,
        See below . All who “did real estate in Manhattan” meet Benson’s criterion for corruption.
        By Benson’s “logic”, it must also include their descendants.

          1. The scary thing is these machinations might not be due to old age and might have existed throughout Benson’s life.

    3. Are you implying that Donald Trump is a made man? Or that his father was a made man? They are not even Italian. Someone on the periphery could interact with the mafia, but they’d never become made. Which crime family were the Trumps associated with, and why would Donald get into the life? What reason would he have to get sucked in when his family was already wealthy?

      You should not make such assertions without proof.

      I would say that the teamsters and other unions employ mob-like tactics. Unions have a stranglehold on many aspects of local, state, and federal governments, including public schools. The mafia used to invest in real estate, and they were rather infamous for running real estate scams. That most obviously does not mean that anyone in real estate was a gangster.

      It sounds like your reasoning goes: the mafia invested in real estate in New York. Trump is in real estate. Therefore Trump is in the mafia. That does not make sense.

      You really need to offer proof before you accuse someone of a connection to organized crime. Link your proof so that everyone may review it. Otherwise, that’s a terrible thing to say without backing it up. Many of us are tired of the false allegations.

      I’m not sure why we’re talking about Australia or the inner city, but here goes:

      My favorite novelist on the topic you mentioned is Pearl Cleague.

      Of course those young men don’t comprehend they are ruining their lives. Nor are they aware that they have any choice in the matter. That doesn’t affect the truth. This is true of so many problems with teenagers – drugs, promiscuity, STDs, not learning a work ethic, not learning charity, good character, or honor. Basically, childhood is training to be an adult. What kind of adults does this environment turn out?

      When you have to survive in this kind of environment that this teacher describes, your future is bleak. I care very much about children’s issues. Race does’t matter. Every innocent child should have his or her best chance. At some point, all the kids described in the video below were perfect, beautiful children with a world of possibilities before them. That’s why I’m always harping on what people can do to break out of that cycle. First and foremost is wait to have children until you’re married. If you didn’t do that, take care of the kids you put on this earth.

      https://youtu.be/-SRCY8FqoyQ

      I find stories like this teacher’s so heartbreaking and frustrating. What can we do? We’re on the outside, judging this Lord of the Flies environment. Who’s going to listen to me harping on about waiting until you’re married and actually making a better choice for themselves? Zero. When a school devolves to this kind of law of the club, the only thing I can think of to do is flood it with security, adult volunteers, and try to keep some sort of order and safety inside the walls. But if the kids don’t want an education, and their parents don’t insist on it, then they won’t get it. They will go nowhere in life, but think it’s some rich white guy’s fault.

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