We have previously discussed how NBC News anchor Chuck Todd uses questions to express extreme condemnations of President Donald Trump and his supporters. While Todd realizes that he would be fired for saying outright that Trump supporters “just want to be lied to,” he can make the same point by asking another person if they “just want to be lied to.” Todd returned to his feigned neutrality in asking presidential candidate Joe Biden if “there is blood on the president’s hands.” Not to be undone, Speaker Nancy Pelosi has declared that “as the president fiddles, people are dying.” At least Pelosi had the integrity to make the statement outright.
During the interview with Biden, Todd asked “Do you think there is blood on the president’s hands considering the slow response? Or is that too harsh of a criticism?”
Even Biden had to balk and say that it was “a little too harsh.”
Todd has a reputation for using others to make such biased attacks. In addition to Trump, he has been roundly condemned for his bias against Bernie Sanders. As with his earlier comment on Trump supporters, he was criticized previously to quoting someone else to say that were part of a “digital brownshirt brigade.”
For Trump and Sanders supporters, Todd’s record further erodes their faith in the media. The bias shown in these interviews is clearly supported by the network. It would be better to have hosts drop the pretense of such quotations or questions to ask least be open about the agenda or bias with viewers.
FBI warns of potential surge in hate crimes against Asian Americans amid coronavirus
Critics say rhetoric has fueled ill will.
By Josh Margolin
https://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-warns-potential-surge-hate-crimes-asian-americans/story
‘The document detailed a March 14 incident in Midland, Texas, in which “three Asian American family members, including a 2-year-old and 6-year-old, were stabbed … The suspect indicated that he stabbed the family because he thought the family was Chinese, and infecting people with the coronavirus.”
‘FBI spokesperson Lauren Hagee said she could not comment on the document but stressed, “we do want to assure the public the FBI remains committed to ensuring national security and pursuing violations of federal law.”‘
Generally speaking, is it reasonable to expect the same people (the Left) that have been civically illiterate for at least the last 12 years, to suddenly be literate about the science of pandemics? Not a chance.
That is very weird. My computer is not wanting to leave replies below the person I attempted to reply to.
Um…here I am. 🙂
Thank you for the list, though, Olly. 🙂
Trump’s complaining about the number of masks being used by healthcare providers. Put him in a hospital and let him see for himself how it works. Let him learn the hard way, for once.
“Trump blames hospitals for mask and ventilator shortages”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/29/trump-bizarrely-blames-hospitals-mask-ventilator-shortages/
https://twitter.com/LouDPhillips/status/1244389625810112517
“@realDonaldTrump
, you implied something today which made me think –
If 1000 nurses (say 2 hospitals in NYC) treat 30 patients a day and change their masks per safety guidelines each time, that’s 30K masks. Over a 10 day period, that’s 300K masks. No conspiracy, just math.
5:23 PM · Mar 29, 2020”
Read what he actually said Anonymous the Stupid.
He was told by someone with expertise that the numbers of masks being used increased by so many fold that it was unexplainable.
Allanonsense
From Paul Ogden’s “Ogden on Politics”:
Despite Warnings of Medical Supply Shortages Created by Pandemic, the Trump Administration Gave Away Critical PPE to China
As early January, U.S. intelligence warned the Trump administration and Congress about a new virus strain in China and the possibility that it could become a pandemic that made its way to the United States. Throughout January and early February, increasingly dire reports were issued by intelligence agencies warning about the growing spread of the virus, by then identified as Covid-19.
It was not like the Trump administration had not been prepped about what steps to take should a pandemic come to the United States. Days before Donald Trump’s inauguration, the incoming administration was put through a simulation calling for a response to a pandemic that originated in Asia. Part of that exercise included a warning that the pandemic could create shortage of personal protective equipment that would put the lives of health care providers at risk.
Instead of learning from the exercise, the Trump administration ignored its lessons, ignored CDC’s playbook for dealing with a pandemic, and ignored the U.S. intelligence agencies warning about that China was not being honest about its containment of Covid-19 and that it could well spread to the United States. Instead Trump downplayed the danger of the virus coming to the United States and instead heaped praise on his “friend” Chinese President Xi Jinping, on January 24th tweeting:
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi.”
Two weeks later, on February 7th, the very day the World Health Organization warned that there was a worldwide shortage of personal protection equipment (PPE) needed to fight the virus, the Trump administration announced it was sending 17.8 tons of “masks, gowns, gauze, respirators, and other vital materials” to China.”
Less than two weeks later, on February 20th, the United States recorded its first Covid-19 case. Today, five weeks later, the United States leads the world in Covid-19 cases, topping 160,000. Medical professionals in the United States face critical shortages of PPE. Instead of gowns, some are wearing garbage bags and reusing single use masks. Many doctors and nurses are contracting Covid-19 because they lack the necessary PPE to protect themselves against the virus.
Our federal government failed the pandemic test. Spectacularly. Thank God we have competent governors who are qualified and unafraid to provide the leadership the Trump administration is apparently incapable of.
“Live updates: Daily U.S. death toll exceeds 500 for first time”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/30/coronavirus-latest-news/
“All the President’s Lies About the Coronavirus”
“An unfinished compendium of Trump’s overwhelming dishonesty during a national emergency”
CHRISTIAN PAZ
MARCH 24, 2020
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/
This article is over a week old and idiots are still claiming these are true.
The Top 10 Lies About President Trump’s Response to the Coronavirus
10. Trump downplayed the mortality rate of the coronavirus
9. Trump lied when he said Google was developing a national coronavirus website
8. Trump “dissolved” the WH pandemic response office
7. Trump ignored early intel briefings on possible pandemic
6. Trump cut funding to the CDC & NIH
5. Trump “muzzled” Dr. Fauci
4. Trump didn’t act quickly and isn’t doing enough
3. Trump told governors they were “on their own”
2. Trump turned down testing kits from WHO
1. Trump called the coronavirus “a hoax”
https://pjmedia.com/trending/the-top-10-lies-about-president-trumps-response-to-the-coronavirus/
Olly, I would believe any mainstream source over P J Media. This article plays many games with the truth. This source is strictly for Trumpers and no one else.
I would believe any mainstream source over P J Media.
PJ Media appreciates your unintended endorsement. Get Paulie or btb to explain that to you.
P.J. Media is owned by the Salem Media Group which primarily operates so-called ‘Christian’ radio stations. Listeners of those stations are Evangelicals; a group that overwhelmingly supports Donald Trump.
With regards to this “10 Lies” article, every one of those instances has a large degree of truth. But depending on how the ‘lie’ is broken down, language can be parsed to create ‘alternate facts’.
If Trump was truly concerned about this crisis, there should be abundant media soundbites documenting his concerns. But existing soundbites paint just the opposite picture. Trump is consistently playing down the danger and questioning the experts.
With regards to this “10 Lies” article, every one of those instances has a large degree of truth. But depending on how the ‘lie’ is broken down, language can be parsed to create ‘alternate facts’.
I’ve tried reading that 5 times and I still have no idea what your point was.
Let’s do this: pick any one of those 10 lies and tell us what is truthful. Humor me by providing evidence, if possible.
Olly, let’s start with # 9, ‘Google is developing a national test site’. Here’s an excerpt from an article in The Hill that was published on March 17:
……………………………………………
Google is postponing the national rollout of a website with information about the coronavirus until later this week, an official told The Hill on Tuesday.
The launch of website – and what exactly the website would do – has been mired in confusion since late last week.
President Trump in a speech Friday claimed that Google was developing a screening website that would “be very quickly done.”
Shortly after those remarks, Verily, another company under the umbrella of Google’s parent company Alphabet, said that it was “developing a tool to help triage individuals for Covid-19 testing” that was “in the early stages of development” for the Bay Area.
Google on Sunday announced it was in fact working on a nationwide site “dedicated to COVID-19 education, prevention, and local resources.”
That national website launch had originally been scheduled for Monday.
Now the tech giant is delaying the launch to fill out features of the website.
“Verily launched a pilot website late Sunday to counties in the Bay Area, and is working with authorities to scale this effort further,” the Google official told The Hill.
Edited from: “Google Postpones Launch Of National Coronavirus Website Until ‘Later This Week’.
The Hill, 3/17/20
……………………………………………….
The truth is that a company owned by Google was developing a site for 2 counties in Norhern California. Trump may not have been ‘lying’ outright. But he sure got his facts mixed up.
Just to be clear, you had the opportunity to select any of the 10 and you chose that one to prove he didn’t have all the facts exactly correct? Please tell us you chose the least provable alternate fact of the 10 and you are ready to drop the hammer on the most. Because if that’s all you have, then you’re as pathetic as Chuck Todd.
Well what about that, Olly?? Google had no National Website ready for use. Trump wasn’t telling a ‘total lie’, but he certainly got this wrong. And that is most likely the case with every one of these 10 ‘lies’. In most every case, Trump was probably referencing some level of truth, but got the facts wrong.
Peter – you can get the Google coronavirus website if you want.
most likely, probably?
Had you any history of accuracy in your allegations about this President, those word might have meaning. You don’t; so they don’t.
Olly, to begin with, ‘who’ actually labeled these 10 references as ‘lies’? The Washington Post? The New York Times? MSNBC?
PJ Media just broadly claims that mainstream media calls these lies. But there’s no mention of any specific source that compiled this list. One imagines PJ Media is simply responding to Facebook memes compiled by whoever.
And this lack of specificity is part of PJ Media’s problem. Quality news sources get specific on details. PJ Media is doing what Fox News commonly does: they’re simply responding to some faceless liberal who supposedly represents all liberals.
As I noted before, there’s often some level of truth to claims Trump makes. But all too frequently his claims require extensive clarifications. That’s not good in a crisis situation. No company would retain a CEO whose statements always require clarification.
And finally I repeat: ‘If media soundbites exist of Trump expressing sincere concern regarding the pandemic before the stock market collapsed, feel free to post them. But I dont think they exist.
Peter – these are the lies that Natacha spews all day, every day.
The fact is if you’re looking for the negatives you will find them. If you’re looking for the positives you will find them. Rational people understand that. Mark Cuban, who is certainly no fan of Donald Trump, had this to say about how the President has handled this crisis:
“In the past, it wasn’t all that long ago when he was saying — people were thinking, wondering how he understood medicine so well. They thought he was just a genius for being able to understand all this stuff, but now he’s kind of evolved to the point where he’s putting his experts up front,” he reasoned. “There’s a reason why Dr. [Anthony] Fauci became a rock star, and he’s only a rock star because Donald Trump stepped aside…”The head of FEMA, the surgeon general, there’s just people who have really put themselves out there and put themselves at risk, and during the press conferences, he steps aside,” Cuban added. “He’s not even in camera shot, and that’s good. And I give him all the credit in the world. Do I like the side comments and all the picking on journalists? No, never have, never will. That’s who he is, but credit earned is credit deserved, and so I’ll give him credit where we’re at right now.””
Paul, Natacha is probably referencing common Facebook videos that were widely shared last week. They show Before & After clips of Trump and Fox News personalities poo-pooing virus danger only to acknowledge. And frankly those clips show Fox News people playing completely different characters. Fox News and Trump dismissed the virus until stocks reacted violently. Only when the markets crashed did Trump really pay attention.
Olly, on this list you’re now waffling on, the bottom 5 are subjective judgements not clearly provable one way or another. The top one is unarguable . Some of the others:
In the hours after the president’s remarks, Google officials distanced themselves from the project, directing question to Verily, where a spokeswoman said the company was merely “in the early stages of development.” The 1,700 engineers Mr. Trump mentioned were actually just Google employees who said a day earlier that they would be happy to volunteer their time on the project if needed….
Now, with Google executives eager to show they are working with the president, the company is racing to meet the promise even as they acknowledge that the debut of the website will be far more limited than Mr. Trump has suggested. A person familiar with the project said Verily was planning to start on Monday with a website that could direct people in the San Francisco Bay Area to as many as three virus testing locations.
At a news conference in the Rose Garden, he said that the company was helping to develop a website that would sharply expand testing for the virus, falsely claiming that “Google has 1,700 engineers working on this right now” and adding that “they’ve made tremendous progress.”
In truth, the project at Verily — which has a total of about 1,000 employees — is in its infancy. A pilot program is planned for the San Francisco area, but a website has yet to be unveiled. Testing locations have not been identified, and the coronavirus tests themselves are not yet widely available.
NYTs 3/14
WASHINGTON (AP) — Public health and national security experts shake their heads when President Donald Trump says the coronavirus “came out of nowhere” and “blindsided the world.”
They’ve been warning about the next pandemic for years and criticized the Trump administration’s decision in 2018 to dismantle a National Security Council directorate at the White House charged with preparing for when, not if, another pandemic would hit the nation.
“It would be nice if the office was still there,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institute of Health, told Congress this week. “I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as a mistake (to eliminate the unit). I would say we worked very well with that office.”
The NSC directorate for global health and security and bio-defense survived the transition from President Barack Obama to Trump in 2017.
Trump’s elimination of the office suggested, along with his proposed budget cuts for the CDC, that he did not see the threat of pandemics in the same way that many experts in the field did…..
https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a
US. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus while President Trump and lawmakers played down the threat and failed to take action that might have slowed the spread of the pathogen, according to U.S. officials familiar with spy agency reporting.
The intelligence reports didn’t predict when the virus might land on U.S. shores or recommend particular steps that public health officials should take, issues outside the purview of the intelligence agencies. But they did track the spread of the virus in China, and later in other countries, and warned that Chinese officials appeared to be minimizing the severity of the outbreak.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html
maybe they are evangelicals but i have seen PJ media break a story that others wouldnt touch. i wont bother explaining. because your mind is always made up
Trump actually said these things:
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China.” -Donald Trump
“When you have 15 people, and within a couple of days, it’s going to be down to -T close to zero … We really think we’ve done a great job in keeping it down to a minimum.” -Donald Trump
“I like this stuff. I really get it.” -Donald Trump
These things bear repeating.
No one should not forget…
And those things were true at that moment in time. This isn’t that difficult.
It is difficult for Anonymous the Stupid.
“Allan’s got a bad case of verbal diarrhea.” Said downthread…
He clearly needs some friends…, but that would mean that someone would want to spend time with him…and/or listen to him…, so: We know why he’s here.
Allan calling someone “stupid.” Now that’s funny.
Even hyenas laugh so proving that Anonymous the Stupid can find something funny and laugh isn’t amazing. I only respond to a few of your comments to me and seldom respond to your comments to others. What I have noticed is that you post a lot and say nothing. You might be one of the biggest posters on this blog. I wonder what that means.
Yep. More verbal diarrhea from “Allan.” Tell it someone who cares, bud.
Anonymous – you seem to have constipation of the brain.
15% of the comments to this thread alone are Allan’s.
lol
several people post anonymously and Allaninny is still way ahead with his meaningless comments
Allan’s the name-caller is obsessed with this person.
38 matches to Anonymous on this one page. Anonymous was used in a handful of replies and almost all if not all of the aliases from Anonymous was from one person who at times talks to himself. Seldom does Anonymous the Stupid say anything and most of the times when he says something it’s wrong.
87 comments by Allaninny
“And those things were true at that moment in time.” -Absurd
No. They weren’t.
But you’re right about one thing and should heed your own words:
“This isn’t that difficult.”
No TIA: those things were NEVER TRUE. He just made them up. No doctor ever told him 15 cases would soon be 0. and COVID-19 has NEVER been under control. Kellyanne and Kudlow lied about this, too.
We’re going to find out Covid 19 has been around longer than is currently known.
And Trump began getting intelligence reports in late December about the virus. No way did those downplay the threat.
It would be important to know when he made these statements and what were the known facts at that time. That’s called, Proper Context. Get back to us when you have it.
Olly………..thank you for this list!
You’re welcome PR!
Oh, yes! So important!
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China.” -Donald Trump
“When you have 15 people, and within a couple of days, it’s going to be down to -T close to zero … We really think we’ve done a great job in keeping it down to a minimum.” -Donald Trump
“I like this stuff. I really get it. (Donald Trump)
Trump’s War On Science Continues:
Push To Lower Auto Milage Standards Fast-Tracked Despite Doubts By Both Science And Industry
The Trump administration is expected on Tuesday to announce its final rule to roll back Obama-era automobile fuel efficiency standards, relaxing efforts to limit climate-warming tailpipe pollution and virtually undoing the government’s biggest effort to combat climate change.
The new rule, written by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Transportation, would allow vehicles on American roads to emit nearly a billion tons more carbon dioxide over the lifetime of the cars than they would have under the Obama standards and hundreds of millions of tons more than will be emitted under standards being implemented in Europe and Asia.
Trump administration officials have raced to complete the auto rule by this spring, even as the White House is consumed with responding to the coronavirus crisis. President Trump is expected to extol the rule, which will stand as one of the most consequential regulatory rollbacks of his administration, as a needed salve for an economy crippled by the pandemic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/climate/trump-fuel-economy.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
………………………………………………..
The article goes on to note that even research conducted within the administration casts doubts on the logic of these rollbacks. The auto industry itself is bracing for years of litigation it scarcely desires. What’s more cost projections estimate that consumers could actually pay more in the long run while their vehicles create additional pollution.
irrelevant news at this juncture seth.
on the plus greta thunberg and company must be overjoyed that the coronavirus is killing off so much commerce and people too, all that diminished CO2 from useless mouth breathers and cowfarts and idled trucks will help save the planet right
No, Kurtz, it’s totally relevant. These milage standards rollbacks are another example of a president unmoored from facts and science.
no seth actually if you can’t specify to a useful certainty, what percent factor American auto emissions are in global warming, then it is just a big fat guess to what extent restricting them will be salutary and make up for the corresponding loss in economic activity
see there is no clearly proven model that identifies proportionately how much greenhouse gas emissions contribute to global warming, because the climactic systems are so complex. i personally think they have some effect but i don’t know how much and so far I have not seen any convincing scientific authority that says exactly what proportionate share co2 is or methane or what have you
likewise they can’t identify to what extent solar activity is a precise causal factor. although it doesnt take much “science” to understand that the big thermonuclear reactor that is Sol is the principal agent of heat in our solar system whatsoever. and if that varies a lot, then, perhaps the climactic warming will vary a lot too!
now coming back to para 1– there is a cost imposed on economic activity by regulations. just like there is a cause imposed by social distancing and shutdowns of everything. the President is wise to consider such things and not just succumb to a panel of Democrat leadership designated “scientists” to tell him precisely what he is supposed to do at every turn.
perhaps you who cry wolf all the time and cast endless insults are part of the problem contributing to the recent failure to heed the epidemiologists who projected big danger from covid -19
thats about the only relevance i can see. the endless politicizing makes everything seem like Lysenkoism, even when it’s not!
Read the article, Kurtz. It’s all in there.
if you can’t specify to a useful certainty, what percent factor American auto emissions are in global warming,
____________________________________________________
Auto emissions may play a big role in virus deaths
Northern Italy is a good example of where high pollution has made the death rate higher. At the same time the virus has done an enormous amount to clean up the pollution everywhere in the world.
I myself do not believe that global warming is a problem but the reckless consumption of fossil fuel is most definitely a problem for numerous reasons. The virus may be a blessing in disguise if it exposes that fact.
its true that smog ie particulate pollution mixed with fog, exacerbates any respiratory condition
and i hear italians like diesel which pumps out the soot
I am not clear on exactly what the tradeoff is between stricter CAFE standards which will adversely impact the economy versus what is to be gained from lower specific sorts of emissions. i got a fast read before the paywall came up and seems to me that it’s not in the article but feel free to produce an exact answer from a qualified source Seth
or you can copy and paste it if you want people to be convinced. im sure you’re too busy with more editorial or whatever, thats more fun eh
Seth, you’re correct in that Trump is unmoored for facts and science. Like Prime Minister Trudeau of Canada does, TrumPutin ought to get out of the way so scientists’ can work. Trump has no clue what that means. The punchline of an old bawdy joke I heard some 3-4 decades ago, “the more he talked, the dumber he got.” (Perhaps you’d heard it, too.) TrumPutin is too dumb to realize that he’s too dumb. Unmoored without an oar or sail boat. jsn
Regarding the suggestion that Trump supporters might want to be lied to it seems that there are only three possibilities:
1. Trump never intentionally lies; he may once in a while be mistaken (like any of us) and when he realizes he’s made an error he corrects it.
2. He lies and his supporters aren’t astute enough to realize it.
3. He lies and you’re all in on the joke and support him despite his unwillingness/inability to tell the truth.
Which is it?
You mean a lie like ” If you like your Doctor you can keep your Doctor , Do you mean a bold face lie like that ?????
That was a deflection that doesn’t address the question.
I suspect Trump was lied to by his own staff.
If he had listened to Steve Bannon early on then he would have been out front of it all.
I notice you people are very gleeful that the President has made some mistakes. Perhaps you should not be too happy about that considering we all have some shared karma in this national geographic space?
As a person of a certain age with more than one underlying condition, I am not gleeful that the President is who and what he is. I was hoping to get a straight answer as to whether or ne he constantly lies. (If he is simply going along with his staff that makes him a whole different kind of stupid). Or whether you know he lies and don’t care?
he does not constantly lie. that is false.
overbroad statements like this are easily refuted and it proves no point one way or another
That would place you squarely in the camp that says he doesn’t lie. Amazing!
i didn’t say he doesnt lie, i said he doesn’t constantly lie. use logic enigma and perhaps a dictionary
Your definition of constantly could use an update. He lies about damn near everything, big and small, repeatedly, and when caught in his lies… he lies about that. I know you to be intelligent enough to know he lies… constantly. I still don’t know why you don’t care? He isn’t just lying to his political foes, he lies to the coal miners who think the mines will re-open, to the towns that he tells the factories are coming back, to the people not receiving ventillators and masks, to those who were going to benefit from his big tax cut (well he wasn’t lying to the rich people). Pick a subject and he lies about it, not rhetorical, really pick a subject, I’ll document his lies and you’ll dismiss them. Why?
What about the fact checks that prove he’s consistently lying, Kurtz?
constantly means continuously. i should like to see something which convinces me he continuously lies. feel free to identify it. and the website “snopes” which is run by a loser is no authority
He never says anything of consequence that is truthful. Under the worst of circumstances, he is indignant because he isn’t being revered. tRump has no business being at the daily briefing other than proving dark comedic relief unknowingly.
another unqualified, overly-broad statement from ynot. added to enigma’s. which again is easily disproven but why bother? what matters logic or grammar to you guys? you are so convinced of your own superior intellect, you need no correction. perhaps you believe your own sweeping generalities? ok, good luck with that.
when i was in school decades ago, i was taught that one should not say things like “ALWAYS LIES” AND “NEVER SAYS ANYTHING OF CONSEQUENCE THAT IS TRUTHFUL” because then you will discredit yourself when the sweeping generality is disproven.
did you fine fellows not have teachers who shared the same correction with you?
i guess i was lucky. I had the finest education I could qualify to experience.
Is this a forum, or just a chattering chorus of people intent on venting their spleen, not establishing credibility, not sharing, not helping, not seeking truth?
its why i rarely comment anywhere on the internet anymore, though for a while this place seemed a little more promising
Alias Paulie, the fact checks you refer to are for people that don’t think.
Are you an authority on not thinking, Allan?
In your case apparently so.
And my name is Paul. So there’s that.
So you tell us, but you say a lot of things and most of them aren’t true.
So, for the sake of clarity, you’re saying I’m lying about what my first name is? In the realm of dialectics that assertion looks like this:
Thesis (my name is Paul) + antithesis (Allan says my name isn’t Paul because I often lie) = synthesis (there can’t be a valid synthesis because there is no valid antithesis to work with — Allan has provided no proof of what his antithesis consists of)
*the possibilities could be many>> Allan doesn’t believe my name is Paul, Allan doesn’t like that my name is Paul, Allan has a secret hatred of anyone named Paul, Allan has a secret hatred of me personally because i say things he doesn’t like to hear, Allan is fundamentally incapable of believing anyone is named what they are named, etc…
So, since the possibilities are endless, and Allan has provided no proof whatsoever that proves what he’s saying is true and what I’m saying is false, the statement reverts back to its original form >> my name is Paul.
This is freshman year philosophy and logic. In fact, let’s take it up a notch?>> Because I’ve said my name is Paul and Allan has asserted that it is not, but not brought any proof that it’s not, therefore nullifying his statement, he’s established himself as a traveler in uncertainty (at best) or to be a liar himself (in this case I can suspect that, but actually haven’t proven it from this exchange alone)…
So as a result, I can pause, laugh like like hell at the whole exchange (which I will pause here to do….BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!) and go about my brand new day knowing that, indeed, truth is often stranger than fiction. That there is a pandemic reality sweeping across the United States right now, evidenced by hospital overloads, that as a nation we are almost certainly going to come out the other end of Covid 19 in a full on economic depression and that normal business every day will be forever changed, that the disease will cause untold misery to many families, but that a day is a day and it is what I make of it. Most importantly, I’ll know that exchanges with Allan have the same level of validity as the one about my name. And I will move on, using the whole episode as a writing exercise. I will have an image of Allan in my mind that I will use to inform a fictional character in a story I’m writing currently and that the character’s name will be STANKABLE FOCKBOOT. Ultimately, I will be grateful for the inane conversation with Allan because it provided me the impetus for a new fictional character. And the day will roll on like the elusive bisquit days often prove to be. And so it goes.
“So, for the sake of clarity, you’re saying I’m lying about what my first name is?…Thesis (my name is Paul).
Your alias so happens not to be Paul but Paulie J. and your real name could be something completely different. That ends your first data point that isn’t completely correct. The rest of what you have written is junk. Do I believe that alias Paulie J. is a sock puppet? Yes, but I am not alone in that belief nor am I the first to think that to be true. This alias has all too many similarities to another alias so if perchance the individuals are distinct, the thinking process is not. Therefore, it makes very little difference. You who you are. You either lie or state things that are not truthful.
It’s nice to know that you are a soon to be writer which is just another talent you have told us you have. We note that variety of expertise and aggrandizement in another character on the blog who also happens to rely on anecdotes that quite frequently are not truthful. Fantasy seems to run your life.
If he’s not a sock-puppet, he does a remarkable impression of one of our regulars. I’m assuming the Rhode Island references are derived from said regular’s residence in New England for an indeterminate period of time ‘twixt 1963 and 1972.
Ha. I’m getting an image of two old guys, blindfolded, taking wild cracks with a stick at a pinata.
And you’re morons.
i believe you are not anon1/ book. you may share many opinions and have some similar turns of phrase, but you are clearly way smarter than him.
Kurtz, I agree, except for the fact that I learned early not to waste time on either reading or especially responding to Allan. unless to correct a misstatement of factor or hit some of those high hanging fast balls he’s prone to.
Kurtz, some of us know quite a bit about Jan F who became Anon and who now resides on the blog under multiple names. There is a reason for that but I don’t want to provide it on a blog out of respect for some of Turley’s primary desires.
Allan, Book, Paulie, thanks for the remarks
I don’t want or need to know the “meatspace” details about people, and I generally don’t want them to know that about me. Just enough to provide some context is ok, and I can take peope on their words
I had many years ago some experience moderating a popular venue such as this, and I learned through vbulletin software deep dives that there are some obnoxious people who will spawn not just a few but 10, 20, 30 sockpuppets. They will use vpns to get around ip bans and so forth. Often they have a financial angle to ply, and often they are seriously mentally ill.
I can’t know such things about all those who type messages on here and I am ok just to take them at their word for it.
Also if you read a lot of comments from prolific commentators one can see personality shining through.
For my part, I see a different personality behind paulie and book, although they do like to toss out provocative barbs at a similar frequency. perhaps they’re just similarly belligerent?
here is a scary thought to add on that: maybe we are all more alike than we suspect? which is why we find ourselves here
this reminds me sometimes of the play by Jean Paul Sartre, Huis Clos, “No Exit.” Check it out!
Back at you Kurtz…. in a good way.
No, speaking only for myself, I am not Paulie.
I’m here more than usual, cause like Richard Gere, “I got no where else to go!” At least i try to keep it short.
Here’s something for you to think about you thinking person you…
https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/03/31/drew-griffin-coronavirus-early-testing-we-blew-it-sot-ctn-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/
Trump has “made some mistakes”? No, Kurtz. Trump is a pathological liar, and has always been. I think it’s CNN or the NYT that has tabulated something like 13,000 provable lies since he took office. When someone lies to this extent, it’s not the result of bad advice or even bad judgment–it is fundamental sociopathology, coupled with narcissism. He can never be wrong. He never apologizes. He is better than anyone else at whatever the subject matter. When proven to have lied or exaggerated to an extreme degree, he or his minions attack the accuser (like he did when going after Yamiche Alcindor who directly quoted him from something he said on Hannity), or pivot to blame someone else, but it’s never Trumpy Bear’s fault. And, I seriously doubt anyone on his staff lied to him. It has been widely reported that Trump has a very short attention span, and that memos have to be dumbed down for him because he refuses to read more than about 2 pages. He doesn’t listen because he doesn’t care about anything other than attention, praise and adulation.
It’s the Washington Post (among others) who’ve been counting the lies. Well into five figures. Running tally.
Apparently, the Pentagon was freaked out by Trump’s inability to pay attention when they were briefing him early on so they had him come to the Pentagon and proceeded to put him in a room without windows to counsel against getting out of the Iran treaty because the Iranians hadn’t violated it…
They’d seen Trump in action and two of his stand bys when in the oval with ‘guests’ was to defocus by asking a secretary to get everyone soda or a drink of some sort and to point out the window randomly to shift attention in that direction when he was hearing things he didn’t want to…
At the Pentagon the generals hammered him with intelligence and info. Trump sat through it, stood up and said we’re getting out of the treaty. The generals were face palming themselves after.
Heard Bob Woodward in Hartford, Ct. say this just after his book came out.
Natacha – still waiting on your BMI score. Enquiring minds need to know!
” For Trump and Sanders supporters, Todd’s record further erodes their faith in the media. The bias shown in these interviews is clearly supported by the network. ”
But that’s the crux of it isn’t it? It’s a pitiful scramble for eyeballs/ears which translates into ‘ ratings ‘ which ultimately generates revenues! Whatever happened to the notion of Journalism’s goal to inform so that the watchers/readers/listeners could evaluate and arrive at their own conclusions?
Todd returned to his feigned neutrality in asking presidential candidate Joe Biden if “there is blood on the president’s hands.” Not to be undone, Speaker Nancy Pelosi has declared that…
Bush, Obama, Biden & Pelosi held office when we went down this path in the prior decade. Additionally China delayed in taking action against 2019-nCoV considering they birthed and botched SARS-CoV in 2002.
Another Decade, Another Coronavirus
New England Journal of Medicine
For the third time in as many decades, a zoonotic coronavirus has crossed species to infect human populations. This virus, provisionally called 2019-nCoV, was first identified in Wuhan, China, in persons exposed to a seafood or wet market. The rapid response of the Chinese public health, clinical, and scientific communities facilitated recognition of the clinical disease and initial understanding of the epidemiology of the infection. First reports indicated that human-to-human transmission was limited or nonexistent, but we now know that such transmission occurs, although to what extent remains unknown. Like outbreaks caused by two other pathogenic human respiratory coronaviruses (severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus [SARS-CoV] and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus [MERS-CoV]), 2019-nCoV causes respiratory disease that is often severe.
As now reported in the Journal, Zhu et al. have identified and characterized 2019-nCoV. The viral genome has been sequenced, and these results in conjunction with other reports show that it is 75 to 80% identical to the SARS-CoV and even more closely related to several bat coronaviruses. It can be propagated in the same cells that are useful for growing SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, but notably, 2019-nCoV grows better in primary human airway epithelial cells than in standard tissue-culture cells, unlike SARS-CoV or MERS-CoV.
Transmission of SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV occurred to a large extent by means of superspreading events. Superspreading events have been implicated in 2019-nCoV transmission, but their relative importance is unknown. Both SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV infect intrapulmonary epithelial cells more than cells of the upper airways.Consequently, transmission occurs primarily from patients with recognized illness and not from patients with mild, nonspecific signs. It appears that 2019-nCoV uses the same cellular receptor as SARS-CoV (human angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 [hACE2]), so transmission is expected only after signs of lower respiratory tract disease develop.
SARS-CoV mutated over the 2002–2004 epidemic to better bind to its cellular receptor and to optimize replication in human cells, enhancing virulence. Adaptation readily occurs because coronaviruses have error-prone RNA-dependent RNA polymerases, making mutations and recombination events frequent. By contrast, MERS-CoV has not mutated substantially to enhance human infectivity since it was detected in 2012.
It is likely that 2019-nCoV will behave more like SARS-CoV and further adapt to the human host, with enhanced binding to hACE2.
Given its close similarity to bat coronaviruses, it is likely that bats are the primary reservoir for the virus. SARS-CoV was transmitted to humans from exotic animals in wet markets, whereas MERS-CoV is transmitted from camels to humans. In both cases, the ancestral hosts were probably bats. Whether 2019-nCoV is transmitted directly from bats or by means of intermediate hosts is important to understand and will help define zoonotic transmission patterns.
A striking feature of the SARS epidemic was that fear played a major role in the economic and social consequences.
Although specific anticoronaviral therapies are still in development, we now know much more about how to control such infections in the community and hospitals, which should alleviate some of this fear. Transmission of 2019-nCoV probably occurs by means of large droplets and contact and less so by means of aerosols and fomites, on the basis of our experience with SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV. Public health measures, including quarantining in the community as well as timely diagnosis and strict adherence to universal precautions in health care settings, were critical in controlling SARS and MERS. Institution of similar measures will be important and, it is hoped, successful in reducing the transmission of 2019-nCoV.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2001126
if i understood what estovir wrote, it suggests that asymptomatic spread is unlikely or a small factor in spread. i guess to really know that one might have to take a big sample of a specific local population with a known rate of infection? and compare it at a later time? but has there been enough testing here to do that.
also, not sure what the following is saying except that aerosol spread is possible
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0412_article
also, i wonder estovir is it possible that the amount of virus in the first contact matters, not sure what you call this, inoculum? but the overall mass of virus transfered in the initial exposure of a person who comes down with the illness, could that be a factor in severity?
in other words, perhaps asymptomatic spread is possible but might it lead to lower intensity infections?
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-questions-about-covid-19-and-viral-load/
if i understood what estovir wrote, it suggests that asymptomatic spread is unlikely or a small factor in spread.
_________________________________________________
That was the New England Journal of Medicine giving you wrong information.
That was what was believed 6 weeks ago. It is pretty clear now that many (most?) people who are spreading the virus are asymptomatic or develop symptoms days after they become contagious.
There’s like a 4-5 day window it turns out.
i suspect that asymptomatic spread is happening
however, my point was, how much virus a person is subjected to at the point of initial exposure, may be a factor in the severity of the symptoms. the other article i liked described how this is often the case with respiratory viruses. i do not know if there is any evidence that happens with covid-19 as well, or not
Replication rate and immune response will tell the story it seems, in which case, it only will take initial exposure, no matter how little.
perhaps you didnt read the link. i will copy part which illustrates what i did not express well. i think this is called “viral load”
“Prof Wendy Barclay, Action Medical Research Chair Virology, and Head of Department of Infectious Disease, Imperial College London, said:
“In general with respiratory viruses, the outcome of infection – whether you get severely ill or only get a mild cold – can sometimes be determined by how much virus actually got into your body and started the infection off. It’s all about the size of the armies on each side of the battle, a very large virus army is difficult for our immune systems army to fight off.
“So standing further away from someone when they breathe or cough out virus likely means fewer virus particles reach you and then you get infected with a lower dose and get less ill. Doctors who have to get very close to patients to take samples from them or to intubate them are at higher risk so need to wear masks.
“The fewer people in the room, the less likely it is than one person is coughing or breathing out infectious virus at any one time, so mixing with as few people as possible is the safest way.
“But there is no evidence for any suggestion that if everyone in a family is already sick they can they reinfect each other with more and more virus. In fact for other viruses once you are infected it’s quite hard to get infected with the same virus on top.””
In general with respiratory viruses, the outcome of infection – whether you get severely ill or only get a mild cold – can sometimes be determined by how much virus actually got into your body and started the infection off. It’s all about the size of the armies on each side of the battle
__________________________________________________
Yes that may play a role in why some people get very sick and some not so much. How strong your immune system also plays a role.
I don’t think that is closely related to viral load. Viral load refers to the amount that an infected person is producing that is available to be shed and infect others. What is surprising is that people who are not showing symptoms have been found to have viral loads that are as high as people who are very sick.
however, my point was, how much virus a person is subjected to at the point of initial exposure, may be a factor in the severity of the symptoms.
________________________________________________________
Coughing, sneezing and blowing your nose are symptoms of severe cases and those actions can be more likely to spread the virus in public, but beyond that it now appears that someone with no symptoms can be just as contagious as someone who is very sick. For instance there are examples where one member of a household with no symptoms infected the rest of the household.
Kurtz
I know you are concerned about this. You should be. We all should be. Not to harp on obesity but, when we lead unhealthy lives, these become co-morbid conditions, meaning they accelerate our death. I have listed some comorbid conditions nearby and in previous months. Today’s NEJM edition lists them as well as to who is dying with COVID.
If you have a clear health, if you do not have comorbid conditions, you are “safer” than those who have comorbidities. Either way, your/our best to avoid COVID-19 is what you have already heard – keep your distance from people for a bit longer. Wash your hands with soap/water, and use common sense.
As for those who are succumbing to severe illness and/or death, most of them have comorbidities. Those that do not are outliers.
We will get through this . However, if you have comorbid conditions (i’m talking to you Mespo), you really should address them because you are not invincible, death comes for everyone, and your loved ones deserve to have you around longer than how you see your station in life.
Today’s special edition of NEJM has consistent findings with previous reports on those who present with COVID. It’s a free link I believe.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2004500
I’m overweight but otherwise healthy. I’m more concerned for the elderly.
poor diet and lack of exercise is at the heart of so many health problems, shows up in obesity, diabetes, heart problems, and more.
i have seen that regular exercise started by people late in life even the 80s can reduce bad conditions to manageable.
as for diet, now we should be cooking at home, which is cheaper and usually healthier, less salt and sugar for starters, and who knows what other goop they put in foods as preservatives and so forth. here’s a great chance to make lemonade out of lemons, folks! literally, lol
my last grocery run we stocked up on green leafys and fresh fruits while other people were hoarding TP. clue to the fools out there: if you run out of tp then you can wipe your backside with a cloth and wash it. but good luck finding sufficient vegetables, not even a garden will yield for months now, here up north
Mr. Kurtz,
I noticed something similar on my last grocery store run. The processed food was wiped out, but, other than carrots, there was plenty of fresh food.
I regularly plant a garden. When I ordered my seed, there were quite a few things out of stock and the stores I frequent were backlogged with orders. The local farm store was out of chicks, too.
I’ve been in on days where the produce section was cleaned out. And the chicken goes quite readily.
I think local businesses are having supply chain problems with paper products. It doesn’t look as if any are arriving.
my last run which was about a week ago, tons of produce, no paper products
its ok we can use an old washcloth for the backside and throw it in the laundry
Prarie Rose, look harder. we are in midwest and more people are planting than usual, but you can still find seed
you could also try online sellers of heirloom seeds…. the survivalist suppliers have long been stocking those when nobody else wanted them since hyrids are easier
btw i have also found that some hyrid tomato plants will actually regrow a second generation, just weaker. so if you have not ripped out old roots let them go, throw a little dung on the beds, maybe they will regrow
Mr. Kurtz,
The germination rate for some of my old seed has been modest, but a few brave seedlings have popped up. Jung’s was still selling seed without a backlog. Baker Seed was backlogged, as was Territorial and Victory Seed–all 3 specialize in heirlooms (which is what I’m partial to). The farm store was out of chicks, but they did have some seed, and I did get some, just not my usual varieties. I need to make more of a habit of saving seed, I guess. I’ve been lazily letting the pros do it.
Second generation zucchinis grow insane monsters, wild vines and short, blocky, rindy
TIA,
You must live in an area that values fresh food more than my area. The frozen broccoli was gone, though.
Thank you for sharing that article, Estovir! It was a good read.
I thought this was interesting from the article:
“Lymphocytopenia was common on hospital admission, as it was in reports from China.13″”
I am unfamiliar with lymphocytopenia and what it entails, so I looked it up.
“Lymphocytopenia and Lymphocytosis
Faramarz Naeim, … Wayne W. Grody, in Atlas of Hematopathology, 2013
Lymphocytopenia
Lymphocytopenia, or lymphopenia (absolute total blood lymphocyte count <1500/μL), is one of the hallmarks of the primary and acquired immunodeficiency syndromes (AIDS) (see Chapter 56). It also occurs in a wide variety of conditions, such as aplastic anemia, tuberculosis, zinc deficiency, …"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/lymphocytopenia
While infection is certainly taxing the body's immune system, could zinc deficiency also be afflicting the sickest people?
Estovir:
Your natural longevity is in your genes not some virus. There isn’t much you can do about your genes and when your time is up a daily trip to the stationary bike will have done you little good. Any honest doctor will tell you that. Fitness guru, Dr. Fix ran every day, had less than 10% body fat and keeled over at age 52 with a fulminant heart attack. He did it all right and died way too young. The best physician I know was Shakespeare: “Our wills and fates do so contrary run, that our devices still are overthrown; our thoughts are ours, their ends none of our own.”
Mespo, there are multiple factors influencing our health and longevity, you know, kind of like almost any event or tendency in the real world. Look it up.
Mespo’s another blog-blowhard.
Estovir,
I do not quite understand why targeted therapies are necessary. Could the body’s own defenses be supported at the cellular or organelle level such that people’s own immune systems can effectively fight off infection as it was designed to do?
For example, glutathione is effective at inhibiting viral replication. It is produced by the body but requires selenium to work. Some populations are deficient in selenium or at best suboptimal for various reasons–would fixing such deficiencies potentially help people recover or prevent new infection?
Rose
The science of immunology within the practice of clinical medicine is rather new. Those of us over 50 recall family, friends or ourselves receiving “allergy” shots to inoculate people against various allergens (e.g. pollen, dander, peanuts, nicotine). Since then immunology has taken off and the 1990s, thanks in large part to oncology, saw the start of using the immune system to overcome specific illnesses. Using the immune system allows a physician to harness the various “cell messenger” cascades so as to combat tumor cells. Part of the reason HIV was so late in being understood (and still is today), is because we do not understand the many players within our immune system. Your question is not as cut & dry as you might think. Likewise with treating COVID-19. As I mentioned in a recent NEJM article above, we have known about Coronavirus causing SARS since 2002: Bush, Obama, Pelosi, Biden, all knew about it but did nothing. So here we are today acting “surprised” and blaming Trump, but in reality we just did not want to do anything about it in the previous decade. This certainly holds true about the WHO. We are “late” in treating COVID-19 because we do not understand our immune system nor do we understand viruses. Bacteria have been studied for decades. Not so for Viruses.
There are 4 major types of pathogens that affect humans: bacteria, fungi, helminths (worms) and viruses.
Bacteria, Fungi & worms are extracellular – they are addressed in large part by what is called Innate Immune system (Macrophages, Basophils, Neutrophils, etc). Viruses are intracellular which is the domain of both the innate & the adaptive immune system, e.g. T cells & B Cells. T cells, particularly CD8 Cytotoxic T-Cells are responsible for stopping the replication of viruses. Viruses are protein “filterable” agents. They are vastly small. They can not reproduce on their own like bacteria & fungi. However, once they attach to a host cell (Coronavirus attaches to an enzyme in the lower pulmonary system, HIV attaches to the CD4 Helper T cells, etc), they use the machinery of the host to replicate. Thus you can not “kill” viruses because they become part of the host. To kill the virus means killing the host cells.
You are asking about our own defense system. I already discussed which part of our defense system addresses viruses. However, unlike how humans act in our culture today (I think of Squeeky Fromme girl reporter with her cats and living/working alone), our immune system (actually all of our systems) are dependent on each other. While Squeeky and most Americans relish practicing social distancing 24/7, our cells can not. They depend on cell communication in order to live, while we Americans crow about being an island. Back to your question, CD8 Cytotoxic T Cells do not “kill” viruses on their own. They must receive signals from various other cells (dendritic cells, macrophages, CD 4 Helper T cells, etc) that alert them to attack the virus. The way the CD8 cell attacks the virus is via a molecule that “interferes” with the virus, ergo Interferon.
Type I Interferons (INF) are proteins synthesized by many cell types in response to viral infection, hence your answer. Interferons come in various types but the relevant ones to our discussion are Type I INF-alpha & INF-beta. These 2 proteins have 3 major functions:
1. INF induce resistant to viral replication to uninfected cells by destroying the RNA of viruses that are required for replication
2. INF induce the expression of another protein (MHC-I) which cooperate with CD8 Cytotoxic cells – they work together. Again, no cell is an island, and hence CD8 cells depend on the cooperativity of MHC-1
3. INF activates another cell (ours is a very busy world within our members!) called NK Cells, which selectively kill virus infected cells – but not the virus per se
Interferon was once considered the “gold standard” of many viral infections, e.g. Hepatitis B, HIV, etc. We used to infuse INF into patients who had some specific type of viral infection (it was the “it” drug in the 1990s for HIV) in the hopes that the INF will do all of the things I wrote above this text. The problem with INF and Viruses is that viruses replicate to inhibit INF. Viruses are “intelligent” (e.g. SARS-Cv2) in that they evolve/ mutate to evade our natural “defense” system. You see where this is going.
Our immune systems are powerful, intricate, beyond our current understanding and they can be overwhelmed. HIV is the only disease that specifically targets the immune system in the hopes of vanquishing the host. It does so by killing one of the most important immune cells in our body: CD4 T Helper Cells. Coronavirus vanquishes the host pulmonary system and those affected hardest are those individuals who have illnesses that stress the pulmonary system like asthma, COPD, heart disease, heart failure, obesity (obesity is a killer on many many levels), Type 2 Diabetes, etc
There is no thing as a “silver bullet” for fighting off infections, to answer your question about Zinc supplements. If a silver bullet existed none of us would be sick and probably consuming massive amounts of that “silver bullet”. What you heard about Zinc, I suspect, is some internet meme, perhaps a retired physician seeking relevance or attention in their elder years, a quackery site, or some other source that lacked evidence. Evidence Based Medicine (EBM) was a paradigm adopted in medicine back in the 1990s that has been somewhat adopted by many physicians but not all. I subscribe to it, and any physician worth his salt does as well. If you can’t find evidence about Zinc, or x, y and z, then don’t buy it. You should always fall on the side of evidence when it comes to treatments. Sadly we don’t have much evidence when it comes to COVID-19 hence our discussion
Confused? Join the club
NB: I am currently lecture on this topic to graduate students.
For those who wish to understand how vast this discussion truly is, check the many cell signaling pathways involved in immunology. These were “discovered” in the past 20 years. Most of it will be considered wrong and obsolete in another 20 years…count on it
why don’t we have cures to viral illnesses? pinpoint the pathway that leads to it and you’ll win a Nobel Prize and lots of money
Cellular signaling and immunology-related pathways
https://www.thermofisher.com/us/en/home/life-science/antibodies/antibodies-learning-center/antibodies-resource-library/cell-signaling-pathways.html
Thank you for the link, Estovir! I look forward to reading it!
Estovir,
“NB: I am currently lecture on this topic to graduate students.”
I would like to be in your class! 🙂 Thank you for the excellent reply!
“Viruses are protein “filterable” agents.”
If they are protein “filterable” agents, do they interact at all with the endoplasmic reticulum or Golgi apparatus? If so, do they induce the unfolded protein response?
“Type I Interferons (INF) are proteins synthesized by many cell types in response to viral infection, hence your answer. Interferons come in various types but the relevant ones to our discussion are Type I INF-alpha & INF-beta.”
Are these synthesized by the endoplasmic reticulum? I am unclear about their origin.
“The problem with INF and Viruses is that viruses replicate to inhibit INF.”
What if they could be prevented upstream from that? Is that what may be happening here:
PLoS Pathog. 2010 Nov; 6(11): e1001176. Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture
“There is no thing as a “silver bullet” for fighting off infections, to answer your question about Zinc supplements.”
I agree that there is no silver bullet. The body is an intricate system. The moving parts within that system need many little building blocks to keep the ‘cogs’ moving properly. I also aim to back up my statements with legitimate sources. If I have made any errors in my understanding, please help me correct my understanding. I am an autodidact and may not be getting something. 🙂
I brought up zinc and selenium (in relation to glutathione) because of how they affect the movement of the ‘cogs’. As I understand it, insufficiency or outright deficiency of either can induce the UPR in the ER, and, if unresolved, apoptosis
(J Cell Biol. 2004 Aug 2;166(3):325-35. Epub 2004 Jul 26.
Zinc and the Msc2 zinc transporter protein are required for endoplasmic reticulum function.;
Environ Health Prev Med. 2008 Mar; 13(2): 102–108. Selenium: its role as antioxidant in human health).
GSH, an antioxidant, needs a selenoprotein built with selenium to work; GSH helps reduce ROS which, if unchecked, can induce the UPR. ROS can induce TGF-B, which, if overzealous, can not only destroy cells, but also contribute to the development of fibrosis in the lungs. Thus, both zinc and selenium, in appropriate levels, are crucial to effective cell function, and, since no cell is an island, the effective functioning of the organism overall.
Based on the papers I have read, I think I have these pathways correct, but please correct me if I have misunderstood something.
“Sadly we don’t have much evidence when it comes to COVID-19 hence our discussion”
Does the evidence have to pertain to the SARS-Cov-2 particularly, or can scientists extrapolate from evidence pertaining to coronaviruses or other viruses more generally?
Awesome summation, Estovir. Thank you. I’m reminded of my days working in Frank Ruddle’s lab at Yale in the late 70’s and early 80.s. Back in the Interferon is king days…
Thanks for the brief on where things have traveled in the days hence.
And yes, the politicization of pathology research and drug research is affected by grant money mostly, some philosophical reasons around things like stem cell research, but largely politicians don’t have a clue about the state of things other than to know or suspect that research is a good. Although in Trump’s case, his position on science is general is wildly unclear. He doesn’t understand the basic rudiments of it, that’s clear. And he doesn’t like to fund things that don’t produce an immediately verifiable profit, that’s also clear. So those things don’t bode well for things like pandemic response through his administration in general…
And, as you know, when market forces entirely drive the rationale behind what research gets funded, and with something like pandemic response, a strictly market driven mind will hate that these things are basically financial losers. That they’re good when the pandemic rolls around, but won’t make money when this isn’t true. In short, Covid 19 and SARS infections in general are the ‘kryptonite’ to this market driven thinking.
Interesting times. Thanks for carrying on the good word, Doctor.
So, here’s a question:
After you have Sar Cov 2 / CV 19 — do you struggle with a cough for months? If so, does it mean permanent lung damage? Also, will the cough ever go away, say going on 4-5 months?
Looking at the CDC website:
I had CV19 and not the flu
Bc headache? No. Runny Nose? No. Sneezing? No. Diarrhea? No. Sore Throat? No.
Fever? YES. Hot/Cold Sweats? Yes. Shortness of Breath? My biggest complaint on the 2nd trip to the doctor. Cough? Oh, yes. Coughing until vomiting. Lost voice for 2 weeks from coughing.
1 round of Z-pack, 1 round of Doxy (on the 2nd visit) and a steroid shot and a breathing machine for 20 minutes, tons of Mucinex and Nyquil (both Day & Night), added extra strength Tylenol on top of that…took some random steroid pills left over from a mosquito bite incident. The albuterol inhaler 2-5x a day, try to help with the breathing…
Then the natural stuff, boiling chicken bones in water for hours, turmeric shots, raw garlic, turning the bathroom into a sauna…pumping those D3 pills…
Oddly enough, neither roomie caught it.
But the roomie’s client ended up in the hospital for 4 weeks, with a pneumonia-like flu… Diagnosed with same thing on my end.
Just not sure, since it was the same time, who gave it to who, if at all…like to think i was 2nd…or just coincidence.
The air, btw, still feels thin to me, 4-5 months later. If i do too much, run up the stairs, it will end in a coughing fit.
And btw, this was last November 2019. I assume based on the dr, said he was treating a pneumonia-like flu last year that was not the usual flu, but had seen ppl with it back in October 2019.
Anonymous – I have not really recovered from the pneumonia I had last year. I am winded going to the mailbox, which is a quarter mile from the house.
😲😲😲 sorry to hear, Paul. 😕😕😕. Get better asap
Anonymous – its a long road and this sheltering in place is no help. 🙁 Thanks for the support though. 🙂
If you were my neighbor, I would just get the mail for you…I’d have my rat terrier, run it to you, have a saddle for mail. She would love it. Never grts tired.
Rat terriers. Stand firm and rise up!!
Had my rat terrier right behind me as back up to prove parking spot 26 was mine fair and square. And of course, an old lease. Lol. If only i had a pack of them rat terriers. This is what city dwellers fight over parking spots.
I read that there was a researcher, I think in Washington state, that saw a similar thing and was doing lab tests to investigate a possible viral cause in December or January. She was stopped by the FDA because she didn’t have FDA approval. She sought such approval and was denied so she restarted doing her testing only be to shut down again. Was that pathogen Covid 19? I guess we will have to wait until after the crisis is over before levelling blame if blame exists. However, this is a cautionary story about too much government control.
” boiling chicken bones in water for hours”
I remember decades ago the medical community and researchers writing about chicken soup helping the cilia of the lungs to push the flem towards the throat. Apparently other types of meat didn’t do the same thing. Whether what I read then is true today is only an assumption that I think is correct.
I never heard of chicken bones in particular, but with scarcity of food it sounds understandable. I would like, if you know, where you obtained that knowledge. I am more interested in the history and how that ties into the research that was done.
Allan,
Not sure how Anonymous makes his stock or how he learned. My family makes chicken stock this way: we use either the whole carcass, and/or, leftover thigh or leg bones (I use a large one-pot pasta strainer to contain all the bones and what-not). I fill up an enormous stock pot of water, add a bit of white vinegar to leach calcium from the bones, some kombu seaweed to add more micronutrients, and some salt. I freeze a lot of it. Not very fancy, but it makes tasty soup.
Prairie, we use whatever is left over of the chicken to make soup and add to it if necessary. I was interested if he was almost exclusively using the bones and if there was a bit of history there. We then use loads of vegetables making it quite tasty.
Estovir’s summation was much appreciated so I hope he does more of the same.
Back to Alias Paulie, ” And he doesn’t like to fund things that don’t produce an immediately verifiable profit, that’s also clear.”
Real Estate investment and promotion along with building brands are long term thinking quite different than what you say.
Yay F Widget Allan. I think you’ve proved what I’m saying quite nicely.
OK, alias Paulie, let us go point by point where you prove your hypothesis.
Time to run away again or change the topic.
As always, Allan. Address the points I was considerate enough to put to you in my hella long post. They’re not from the Fox universe. I’ll begin when you pull one out and want to discuss…, but I know you can’t. So do your research, come back in a few months, and we’ll begin there.
Your game goes like this. Accuse someone of using talking points>> doubt the source material they present>> insult heavily at every step>> zoom in in with right wing source material >> demand the ‘discussion’ be about talking points from that material.
Don’t have the time or energy for it. And I know your schtick. Have fun with it…, just do it elsewhere. Level up and we can talk, bud. Until then, buh bye.
The comment was placed under moderation so I will try it again leaving out the $ that was replacing an S.
“I was considerate enough to put to you in my hel.. long post.”
You weren’t considerate at all. That was you ‘bull ….ing’ your way out of a discussion. We are not in disagreement as to what the CDC or any of the experts say. We are in disagreement over the conclusions we respectively made. You didn’t defend your conclusions rather you used your notes of what the experts said as manure to cover your tracks.
To date you were full of talking points that you had the barest knowledge of and couldn’t defend. That problem of yours remains. That is the reason you run away from a point by point discussion. When we do have one you end up on the losing end.
“I’ll begin when you pull one out and want to discuss…”
I have done that time and again. You want to find Trump guilty and prove he has done a lousy job. To do so one has to think what the reasonable person would do with the knowledge available at the time the decision was made. You want to act as a Monday morning quarterback that faces no unknowables and no future. Your basic contention earlier was that Trump didn’t act quick enough and I dealt with that and the time line.
Who would the reasonable person be? A person of your persuasion might compare a Trump to a Pelosi the leader of the Democratic House who was impeaching Trump instead of thinking about the virus. Additionally after the travel ban and increasing fears about the virus Pelosi on Feb. 24 discounted mitigation as shown on the video of Pelosi in Chinatown SF. If Trump was a tiny bit behind the curve then she was lost looking for the curve as were most Democrats. That included the NYC health comissioner whose tweet I also provided to the list along with Andrew Cuomo who was advised a few years ago that NY was short 16,000 ventillators. Those are just a few of many examples.
If you were trying to be honest you would be reconciling these facts with your stated criticisms, but you won’t. Instead you will run away again trying to blame everyone but yourself.
Allan repeating a posting held
Responded to your post on another thread.
A couple things will probably not be resolved in our discussions….
a) it is okay to disagree. There is absolutely no way you’ll ever convince me Trump has done a good job responding to Covid 19. What would a reasonable person do? He’d have paid attention to National Security guidelines for one…, which is exactly why I posted to you guidelines of the CDC that are in those guidelines and an unbiased journalistic account of how the Trump administration did not follow them..
I realize this information may be distasteful to you…, but the fact that I posted it was in response to you. Your not liking it doesn’t mean I don’t understand the material.
It might be you don’t understand the material yourself. In which case, take some time, assimilate the information. It literally is world consensus on Trump administration response to Covid 19. We are presently on the world’s worst trajectory for growth in new cases. Other countries have done a much better job at dealing with the onset of the virus.
b) it’s not an all or nothing game…I realize you won’t agree with me. That’s cool, I have no stake in convincing you. And as these times have proven, “facts” are no longer really “facts” as was accepted in the past. I can tell when you post an article of any sort that it comes from an entirely different universe of information than the one I travel in.
So ultimately, it comes down to numbers to assess Covid 19 and the Trump administration response to it…
And a projected goal of between 100-200 thousand deaths from Covid 19 in the States is by no means auspicious. It basically means the U.S. will have mustered the worst response to the virus in the industrialized world.
c) Trump getting impeached in December and on trial for removal in January is in no way an excuse for his pandemic response. Trump had already done his part in getting impeached with his actions in Ukraine the previous summer. His work for the trial was done. Any time he spent watching the trial on tv and tweeting was wasted time he should’ve spent doing his job.
But using it as an excuse does point to a change in Trump messaging…, he’s gone from denying to he did anything wrong, to trying to come up with an excuse for his behavior. That’s a step up for him…, and it also reflects the strategy he used in impeachment as the house managers case got stronger and stronger He went from denying he’d done anything wrong there to just granting that he had, but that it wasn’t worth removing him over. In that, Trump has been consistent. In fact he’s a consistent character. I know — an old boss had done much work for him, Trump has a pattern of how he ‘renegotiated’ with architects in mid flight…and I know because this pattern of Trump behavior led to that architect to be late in paying me for my work. So I’ve experienced it first hand.
So…agree to disagree? Sounds like the best plan to me. Otherwise I’ll just have to keep handing you L’s, bud. Ha.
“He’d have paid attention to National Security guidelines for one”
Post the guideline and the citation from where it came. Then in your own words tell us why Trump was wrong and shouldn’t listen to any other expertise but the guideline. [guideline: = a general rule. It is not an absolute rule]
Understand everyone can do things better retrospectively.
“I realize this information may be distasteful to you”
Information is not distasteful. Your use of information as manure is distasteful.
“Other countries have done a much better job at dealing with the onset of the virus.”
To make such a determination one has to look at all the variables and actually know what happened in other countries. The number of variables is vast so it is too early to make that kind of determination. Our biggest failure was the failure of multiple presidents to keep adequate stockpiles of masks and other PPE. The second biggest failure IMO was for government agencies to keep their eye on the ball and cease being so political and politically correct (Congress stands out)
List ALL your variables and then tell us the countries you think fared better. I believe a couple of large industrialized countries may have but I don’t have enough of the variables to draw even rough conclusions.
“And a projected goal of between 100-200 thousand deaths from Covid 19 in the States is by no means auspicious.
It’s a projection. The actual numbers might be very greatly affected by the mixing of the host country and the Chinese carriers adding to that the number of tourists in China that returned to the host country carrying the virus. It would also be affected by our own leaders such as Pelosi and the NYC health commissioner that for PC reasons encouraged very close contact even after the Chinese Travel Ban. Without question those types of actions contributed greatly to the problem. If you have any doubt refer to the spread of what was then called AIDS from the SF world wide gay party. This is not an attack on gays but had the bathhouses been closed and better yet the party cancelled I would guess millions of lives would have been spared. [Read Randy Shilts book “And the Band Played On: Politics, People, and the AIDS Epidemic”. This is a primer on disease, research, PC , epidemics, politics and what not to do. It’s easy to read and detailed at the same time. Shilts was a news reporter and provides an accurate timeline.]
“Trump getting impeached in December and on trial for removal in January is in no way an excuse for his pandemic response. “
It’s definitely part of the problem even if it didn’t affect Trump. It affected Congress’s response, their PC attitudes and attempts to thwart Trump’s responses with travel bans etc.
You have a tendency to roam into different issues in discussion. I did not deal with those issues. I prefer to deal with the facts and let the facts guide my decisions.
Alias Paulie, I see you ran away from another discussion.
https://jonathanturley.org/2020/03/30/blood-on-the-presidents-hands-chuck-todd-again-criticized-for-biased-attack-on-trump/comment-page-2/#comment-1936217
I went into detail on the discussion in play.
Alias Paulie, I’m still waiting.
Geat points, Paulie
If impeachment distracted Trump, there should be soundbites of Trump, Republicans and Fox expressing concern for the virus and worrying that Trump is distracted. But those soundbites don’t exist!
As I said about Diaper Man, you’ll find no sense of satisfaction at all arguing with him. You can hit him with smoking gun evidence to contradict his point. But it never matters. You’re talking a character from “Dr Strange Love”.
Thanks Seth. I’m learning the hard way again. ha.
Posted those to you a couple days ago, Allan. Not reposting on demand. Try reading what i post. Then try to understand it…
But I get that you might skip it. I’m beginning to skip what you write. We travel in entirely different information sources. The only language we could possibly speak is based in numerical statistics. Send them and we can possibly discuss.
“Posted those to you a couple days ago, Allan.”
The Post remains unanswered and the responses elsewhere didn’t deal with the substance. You make things up as you go along and are untrustworthy. You keep threatening not to respond to me but unfortunately you do.
Alias Paulie, still waiting.
Alias Paulie, you weren’t considerate at all. That was you ‘bull ….ing’ your way out of a discussion.
…and I am still waiting.
Wow. This was so fascinating. Thanks! 👨⚕️👩⚕️
Oh, Todd is like you, Jonny, except you excuse Trump’s misstatements and mistakes and lies, try to find something good to say about him while focusing as much bad into as you can find on his rivals. I get it. No, you will not get am appointment to the SCOTUS no matter how much lickspittling you do.
“Plankbohreinstein” calls the professor “johnny” — another rude commentator or perhaps just a sockpuppet. pathetic! don’t you people have something of substance to contribute by way of criticism or only insults for the host of this website? and of course other people who disagree with you.
It makes you wonder what they would do if they weren’t waiting to criticize someone else. The same dynamic that has been noted about the current mob that wants to tear down everything, and lack the ability to build anything.
Is that a slight at tRump and his wall?
Now Turley is attacking Chuck Todd, accusing him of bias by suggesting that Trump has blood on his tiny hands. How could he NOT have blood on his little hands? The reasons are numerous, beginning with rejecting the pandemic playbook, dismantling the pandemic rapid response team, calling COVID-19 a “hoax”, saying that 15 cases would soon be 0 cases, anyone who wants a test can get one, that we’d have a vaccine “very soon”, that there was a “game changing” medication available…the list goes on. In reliance on his downplaying of this calamity, the Governor of Florida refused to close beaches for spring break, and Mardi Gras went on as usual, spreading this virus across state lines. How many school districts were slow to close schools? How many states were slow to close down restaurants, churches, sports contests, public gatherings, concerts and other events drawing lots of people? Don’t you think that if there had been some leadership saying that there was a pandemic coming and that social distancing was the only tool available to limit the spread so that hospitals wouldn’t get overwhelmed, that this could have made a big difference in limiting the spread, especially if the public was told there won’t be a vaccine any time soon, and that there is no approved medical treatment for these infections?
While we probably cannot scientifically quantify how many more people died as a result of Trump’s narcissism and lack of leadership talent. we cannot deny that his failures have made a bad situation much worse than it needed to be. And, when Trumpy Bear says that no one could have predicted this, he’s lying. A model showing the extent of spread and death tool without social distancing was released in January. Yesterday, Trumpy Bear claimed it was the first he ever heard this. That’s another lie.
Trump does have blood on those little hands. It would be irresponsible to ignore this truth. in fact, there has been discussion of Fox News possibly having liability for supporting the Trump talking points about COVID-19 being a “hoax”, downplaying the risks, accusing Democrats of politicizing this, etc.. The irresponsibility of Fox News for downplaying the risks and defending Trump, and the resulting failure of so many Americans to take seriously social distancing would be a far more relevant topic than trying to attack Chuck Todd for pointing out the obvious.
The main cause of the covid-19 illness is sars-cov-2. Natch thinks Trump is causing covid 19.
One might say Xi mishandled the crisis, one might say Trump has made some errors, but the fanatic, screeching harridan Natch says Trump himself has “blood on his hands”
This is preposterous and inflammatory remarks. Blood is where this can all end up and I don’t mean just people coughing out their lungs either.
I have seen for decades a phenomenon where the most strident voices are usually those which will be the least capable of managing open conflict once it comes. One can see this in many different circles, not just politics. It’s a phenomenon like “short guy complex.” The loudest provocateurs are usually the weakest.
Trump administration report card on pandemic response re Covid 19:
(I’ll be generous)
-Institution of quick travel limitation >> China>>A (Italy and South Korea and Japan >> C-)
-Diagnostic testing >> D- (up from an F as NY has made a huge testing move recently; true, that’s Cuomo stepping up huge, but NY is part of the U.S. after all)
-Doing the utmost to aid in Emergency Medicine >> D- (there are people reusing masks and wearing garbage bags to work in Covid + wards and we will not have ventilators by the end of the week in Louisiana; all those people screaming about death panels as a result of Obamacare??? Well, we will have that actively practiced by the end of the week in NY and Louisiana, that’s where we are)
-Using Defense production to broker for the states an adequate supply of PPE >> F (We are in a logistics CRISIS as we speak, really it’s about shuttling ventilators around the country from one hot spot to the next; this is real Hunger Games S**t and all Trump can see fit to do is use the DPA as a bargaining tool like it’s a NY real estate deal)
Looks like something in the low 1’s as far as GPA goes, y’all.
the China travel ban was timely yes good but then the concomitant failure to restrict italy and japan and korea was an early mistake
testing is a systemic problem more so than a trump problem; could he have pushed harder to make it happen? probably,. so i will count that as a mixed responsibility but definite miss-step
I’m not sure you mentioned this or not but lying about no need to wear masks,. whereever that came from, was wrong and stupid, it is wise to wear a scarf or mask or anything to reduce spread of droplets and we need to do that now, posthaste, why is this complicated?
defense production i would have ordered it a month ago, no idea why this took so long.
there a is a very negative dynamic shaping up
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/social-distancing-culture/609019/
Conservatives, do not get sucked into this. Do not fail to react to the virus with proper precautions, because provocateurs are wagging their tongues at you. if it is wise then it is wise whether Democrats agree or not
Agreed. And a nation wide social distance mandate is well past due as well. Looking forward to the article, Kurtz.
“testing is a systemic problem more so than a trump problem; could he have pushed harder to make it happen? probably,. so i will count that as a mixed responsibility but definite miss-step”
Maybe the words ‘perhaps retrospectively’ should be added.
yes allan sure, retrospectively
and although i approve of social distancing and all that; i also consider it part of the POTUS responsibility to reckon the effect on the economy and other consequences. there are tradeoffs between social distancing and lost income which will affect some people very adversely. the media sometimes paints this as if it were a simple equation but it is not, it is multifactored,
also, i am not naive; they WANT the economy damaged so that Trump’s reelection prospects are hamstrung. maybe not all advocates of severe prophylactic measures, but yes, SOME certainly do have that in mind.
“Tradeoffs”
That is a dirty word to the Liberal. It changes the equation and requires a lot of thinking.
Conservatives, do not get sucked into this.
_______________________________________________
Well the Conservatives are doing what they believe…
The liberals are doing what they believe, also.
You seem to be saying the conservatives should abandon their beliefs.
Consider this: You don’t know how this will end
beliefs are just that. the virus has a certain epidemiological profile which is nasty. SOME conservatives have been very reluctant to recognize this well grounded expert cautionary message.
why, i don’t know, that’s up to them to figure out.
liberals: I am not a liberal so I can’t speculate too much. liberals are no more one monolithic set than conservatives are, however. so each may have his own thinking.
I can see from some ranting and raving however that they welcome any negative prospect which dims Trump’s reelection plans. they will blame as much of this on him as they think they can get others to swallow. even today we heard that it was all Trump’s fault, when actually, the main cause of covid-19 is a little virus named sars-cov-2 i think, and not Xi and not Trump. However imperfectly the two of them reacted to it.
i urge people to get over the shyness and start wearing face masks if you have to go out. right now people need to get with it, fast.
“New York Gov. Cuomo holds news conference on coronavirus response”
March 30, 2020 | 11:54 AM EDT
“New York’s Governor Andrew Cuomo (D) delivers an update on the state’s coronavirus response. With the coronavirus death toll soaring in the United States and health experts warning that “no state, no metro area will be spared” by the outbreak, President Trump steeled the nation for an extended shutdown, dashing hopes of a quick resumption of normal life. The announcement came hours after Trump was presented with a model showing that the novel coronavirus could lead to 100,000 to 200,000 U.S. deaths, even with the current guidelines in place.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/new-york-gov-cuomo-holds-news-conference-on-coronavirus-response/2020/03/30/f34f5c57-5c97-47b7-bfd9-0aa6e9c9a69d_live.html
Turley Retreats Into Bubble
With this column Professor Turley becomes the pot calling the kettle black: “Todd returned to his feigned neutrality in asking presidential candidate Joe Biden if “there is blood on the president’s hands.”
Talk about ‘feigned neutrality’! For months Professor Turley has been running interference for Donald Trump; making a concerted effort to distract readers from the latter’s inexcusable behavior. Turley told us The Mueller Probe was essentially a ‘deep state conspiracy’ and the quid pro quo was ‘unworthy of impeachment’.
Now Turley would have us believe that Trump’s response to this crisis has been perfectly earnest. Only in the rightwing bubble could anyone make such a case. Every day of this crisis Trump has managed to put out false and misleading statements.
One would think that even an uninspiring president, like Jimmy Carter, perhaps, could at least get their facts straight while deferring to experts when uncertain of specifics. That’s not too much to ask of a president: ‘Just get your facts straight and act like an adult’.
We’ve all known immature adults who were capable of sensible-sounding thoughts. We’ve all known alcoholics who can form astute observations however drunk they might be. And we’ve all known those low-potential types who surprise us occasionally with intelligent remarks.
Therefore it should strike everyone as suspicious that Donald Trump keeps putting out erroneous information. Even a sociopathic narcissist should be capable of recognizing the seriousness of this crisis. How tough could it be to stand at a podium expressing sincere thoughts? Even second-rate actors can manage a few good takes on camera.
Not only does Trump fail to get his facts correct, he still has plenty of time for the Culture Wars. Trump wasted a week trying to label this epidemic the ‘Chinese Virus’. This sparked a mindless national arguement between Trumpers and everyone else. Secretary of State Pompeo wasted a conference call with Group of 7 leaders attempting to get this plague recognized as the ‘Wuhan Virus’. But the Group of 7 refused to play along.
Trump’s personal grievances still come first; now more than ever! His very recent attacks on “That woman governor in Michigan” are concrete evidence that Trump should have been impeached. Whatever Trump might think of Gretchen Whitmore, this crisis is not the time for our president to be attacking governors.
Trump’s entire presidency only makes sense when one views him as a stooge for Vladimir Putin. Only then do Trump’s relentless efforts to divide and confuse us really make sense. No president could otherwise be so consistently obnoxious.
That you still fail to understand his methods and carry on with the Putin stooge defamatory fantasy shows your lack of imagination and insight,. sad
equally sad all you people can generate at this difficult time are more antagonistic remarks to inflame your fellow citizens.
Thing is, your response was not substantial, Kurtz. It went right for the personal rather than the principal of what Book said. And you used the expression “you people”.
Seth, rather. My bad! They both post good material.
his comments about trump were immediately insulting and provocative. the content was too thin for me to address and the conclusion that he is a putin stooge is preposterious and always was. from the beginning it has been a vacuous slander and no amount of failure to prove the assertion has stopped some people from shamelessly repeating it again and again
Seth says: “Talk about ‘feigned neutrality’! For months Professor Turley has been running interference for Donald Trump; making a concerted effort to distract readers from the latter’s inexcusable behavior. Turley told us……[blah blah blah] ”
Seth Joins the obnoxious Natch in attacking the website host Turley on a daily basis as dishonest shill for Trump. this is pathetic. If you think Turley is so dishonest then why grace his page every day with your august presence, Seth? Move on to where your acidic pearls of wisdom are more appreciated.
it’s incredibly rude to someone who provides you with a comment platform, to insult them as dishonest so often. if you disagree with Turley say so, just make your case. Don’t attack him as disingenuous. that’s uncivil, and poor thanks for giving you free space to rant on for years on end
Well, I can speak for myself. I always point out where I agree with Turley and then, also, where I don’t. That’s only fair. I know in his blog posts that he does the same — not in a personal sense directed to me, but just in general.
“Turley Retreats Into Bubble ”
Paint Chips is suffering the shortage of lead paint.
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China.” -Donald Trump
“When you have 15 people, and within a couple of days, it’s going to be down to -T close to zero … We really think we’ve done a great job in keeping it down to a minimum.” -Donald Trump
“I like this stuff. I really get it.” -Donald Trump
Didn’t you just repeat yourself which was a meaningless comment? Anonymous the Stupid do you think saying it twice makes you twice as smart. Maybe doubling your IQ will bring your it to 2 digits.
“The president’s re-election campaign is threatening legal action against television stations in key battleground states if they continue to air a Priorities USA ad alleging Trump called the coronavirus a hoax. Guy Cecil of Priorities USA discusses. Aired on 3/26/2020.”
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China.” -Donald Trump
“When you have 15 people, and within a couple of days, it’s going to be down to -T close to zero … We really think we’ve done a great job in keeping it down to a minimum.” -Donald Trump
Blood on Trump’s hands? This is a global pandemic. It spread because Communist China allowed a live exotic animal market to continue after it had been warned they spread disease. Then they arrested 8 of their own brave doctors who came forward to warn of this epidemic. They were arrested for “disturbing the social order.”
That was the culpable action responsible for deaths.
The CDC has egg on its face. It released an assay that was slow, could only analyze 12 samples a day, and it was unreliable. You never release an assay that has not pass rigorous QC testing. But the CDC’s test was not accurate. While they floundered, private industry came up with several variations of assays that could give same day results of tens of thousands of tests…daily.
That’s the problem with government agencies that have slush funds. They get lost in the weeds, getting monkeys drunk, without accountability.
The only major issue I have with Trump’s response is that I think he is over eager to get everyone back to work. You don’t do that until the epidemic is on its way out, we have sufficient PPE for not only medical staff, but everyone, enough ventilators, a vaccine and medication, and enough medical personnel. Waiting for a vaccine is not realistic, however, as that could take a year.
Health care workers are getting sick, as the number of patients rises. That is the grim math of a pandemic. My own asthma doctor is sick.
Karen, I agree with all your points, though you’re too light on Trump. His “over eagerness” has led him to misrepresent facts multiple times and avoid taking appropriate actions early, while his constant bragging and self praise, coupled with finger pointing and threats to withhold federal aid, as well as his unwillingness to use the power at his disposal which governors do not and cannot have, all add to his failure as a leader in a time of crisis.
A bunch of lies surrounded by ignorance.
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China.” -Donald Trump
“When you have 15 people, and within a couple of days, it’s going to be down to -T close to zero … We really think we’ve done a great job in keeping it down to a minimum.” -Donald Trump
“I like this stuff. I really get it. -Donald Trump)
Allan said, “A bunch of lies surrounded by ignorance.”
We have three of them at 5:36 PM — all uttered by DJT.
Anonymous the Stupid has trouble putting bits of statements together and incorporating the knowledge of the time. That is why he gets his name.
Continue on Anonymous the Stupid.
Allan the Idiot thinks he’s landed a punch. What a fool.
Allan suffers from diarrhea of the mouth.
As to America, one reason it spread so far and so soon was Trump’s lying: calling it a “hoax”, saying 15 cases would soon be 0 cases, lying about availability of a vaccine, lying about medical treatment, lying abut availability of testing, and trying to pivot blame somewhere, anywhere else. Many states didn’t think it was a big deal, so Florida beaches were open for spring break, Mardi Gras went on as usual, and many states were slow to close schools, churches, restaurants, etc., all of which contributed to the spread. If he had not dismantled the NSC rapid pandemic response team and had not rejected the playbook left by the Obama Administration, we wouldn’t be so far behind. The national stockpile was woefully undersupplied, and masks and other PPE they did have were out of date. What’s he been doing for 3+ years?
As to the CDC, the WHO offered test kits, which Trump refused. If the rapid response team had been left in place, we wouldn’t be trying to play catch up with vaccine and chemotherapy development, supplies and testing.
This is the fault of Trump and his lack of leadership. What appalls me the most is his lack of shame and his arrogance—turning medical briefings into campaign ads. Then, he creates a photo op by saluting the USNS Comfort, when he lied to get out of military service. He is disgusting.
As to the CDC, the WHO offered test kits, which Trump refused
Actually…no
Biden Falsely Blames Trump Administration For Rejecting WHO Coronavirus Test Kits (That Were Never Offered)
March 16, 2020
During Sunday night’s debate, while leveling criticism at President Donald Trump’s handling of the national response to the coronavirus pandemic, former Vice President Joe Biden said the Trump administration refused to get coronavirus testing kits from the World Health Organization.
“Look, the World Health Organization offered the testing kits that they have available and to give it to us now. We refused them. We did not want to buy them. We did not want to get them from them. We wanted to make sure we had our own,” Biden said.
A similar claim about WHO test kits has also been circulating on Facebook.
The Biden campaign referred us to a Politico article that said the WHO shipped coronavirus tests to nearly 60 countries at the end of February, but the U.S. was not among them. That is technically correct, but it suggests that the United States would have been on the list under any circumstances.
The countries WHO helped are ones that lack the virology lab horsepower that exists across the United States. The outreach work by the Pan American Health Organization is a case in point.
The group is WHO’s arm in the Americas. It conducted trainings and sent materials to conduct tests to 29 nations. The list included Paraguay, Bolivia, Argentina, Chile, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua and many others.
The group said it focused most of its efforts on “countries with the weakest health systems.”
“No discussions occurred between WHO and CDC about WHO providing COVID-19 tests to the United States,” said WHO spokesperson Margaret Harris. “This is consistent with experience since the United States does not ordinarily rely on WHO for reagents or diagnostic tests because of sufficient domestic capacity.”
According to interviews with several infectious-disease experts, Biden’s statement leaves out context about how countries decided on which test they’d use to identify the presence of the coronavirus.
WHO lists seven different approaches — including that of China, the United States, Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, France and Germany — each one targeting different parts of the COVID-19 genetic profile.
https://khn.org/news/biden-falsely-blames-trump-administration-for-rejecting-who-coronavirus-test-kits-that-were-never-offered/
There will no doubt be an investigation once this is over and everything and everyone that played a role will be looked at. Now is certainly not the time to make conclusions over a war that is ongoing. The MSM coverage reminds me of what I saw during the Vietnam War. Body counts and opinion pieces centered on a war of our choosing. However, we didn’t choose this current war. We didn’t detect it on radar as it landed on our shores. We didn’t give it a visa to enter our country and train on flying into our communities. The best example we have for modeling the response to this pandemic is the 2009 H1N1 pandemic. And it took years to analyze everything about the H1N1 pandemic. It will take years to analyze this one.
The politicization of this pandemic, less than 3 months in, will certainly be part of the after-action studies. As it is highly likely the reporting out of China has been completely controlled by the government, it will be even more important to reaffirm the importance of a free press and their responsibilities that come from such a right. The media’s response should be evaluated to determine how their coverage impacted our response. The most irresponsible thing the media could be doing at this point is drawing conclusions without all the data. Couple that with the Democrat’s despicable hog pile on the recent funding bill and one thing is abundantly clear; they will stop at nothing to influence an election. From what we’ve seen over the last 6 months, Russia will certainly be rewriting their American election interference playbook. They are amateurs compared with the Left in our own country.
Given that the media immediately ignored Birx’s plea to report responsibly and not unnecessarily frighten the public, and instead peddled an apocryphal tale of Michigan hospitals leaving patients to die, it seems likely that something more than the good doctor’s scalpel-like dissection of the false reporting is needed. Trump learned that long ago, which is why the president instead wields a fake news hatchet.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/28/nations-coronavirus-lead-demands-corporate-media-stop-scaring-americans-with-lies-about-ventilator-shortages/?utm_source=The+Federalist+List&utm_campaign=d1a11d1634-RSS_The_Federalist_Daily_Updates_w_Transom&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cfcb868ceb-d1a11d1634-79248369
+1
Agreed. There is so much dubious information flowing around that to suspend judgment is generally best.
Spoken by a true Fox News disciple: “you can’t trust any media other than us.” How pathetic–setting the stage for eager receipt of Trump’s daily lies and discarding of anything contrary. You know, no other media tells viewers, readers or listeners not to trust Fox.
BTW: Imperial College in London is the source for the estimated 1-2 million deaths if no containment measures were taken. They probably lie, too. Ask Hannity.
That’s certainly true. And we have people giving out 1st quarter report cards as if it’s finals, on a subject matter no one had the correct answers to before the test. This post is really the best example of what is measurable in real time and the professor has accurately graded the performance to date.
It’s actually past the finals: we are now in a logistics crisis until either herd immunity or a vaccine can be developed. The only path forward now in the U.S.is to a) do everything possible to deal with what within days will be a severe PPE shortage, a shortage of ventilators and hospital beds…that’s days, not weeks. The alligator closest to the boat now is logistics, (There will be time to criminally prosecute the Trump administration for their refusal to be serious about the DPA act later on) b) call a nationwide social distance measure, and c) do everything in your power to boost your own immune system.
Thank goodness Obama isn’t President now. He would still be formulating a task force to see what can be done to provide PPE etc. The hospital ship would be delayed because he would want coverage that everything was done exactly the way intended so he couldn’t be blamed. That would take a month.Then he would make the ship go at quarter speed to save on power while reducing emissions. By the time Obama got to half speed what is left us us would be wondering where to go on New Years Eve.
Oh…and he would’ve instituted the NSC pandemic response plan, listened at intelligence briefings in late december when briefed on China and Covid 19, not gotten himself impeached, aggressively tested for diagnostics, instituted a nationwide shelter in place and self quarantine plan early, activated the defense production act for real to massively produce the amount of PPE and ventilators needed complete with back up plans.
Fauci would’ve literally lived in the oval office from december forward.
And Mitch McConnell would’ve fought him every step.
Empty poster or alias Paulie (we have to separate the sock puppets from one another) You neglected to tell us the guidelines of the pandemic team and how that would have changed things. Meaningless generalizations is what one provides when they lack fact. Perhaps we need to go back to those posts that you ran away from.
And a compliant media would be suggesting another Nobel prize for Obama. It’s so disgusting that I believe we need laws to control their opinions expressed as facts. Opinions can and will be partisan but MSM lost the definition of NEWS many years ago. Americans have suffered as a result.
Since you mention the great one, President Barack HUSSEIN Obama II was the greatest President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces since Harry Truman. Moreover, before his marriage he undoubtedly had “access” to the white women.
this is to “so why’d you have to go on and all caps the Hussein?” Kurtzie
Marky Mark Mark – after all these months you are still cutting and pasting.
No, but if there’s a simple way to find all of my gold posted here, I would enjoy re-airing some of my classics….
to paulie – georgie
Marky Mark Mark – sorry, you do not have either gold or classics.
And it would’ve been helpful if the Trump administration had followed NSC pandemic guidelines, but it’s water under the bridge now. The administration has presided over the worst national security screw up in U.S history — but we have to play with the team we have now. Effort is everything. There is no longer time to make this a political issue. Ideology is a luxury we just don’t have at this point. There will be around 100k dead in a scenario that was entirely preventable with previously known information. It’s definitely not time to keep head in sand. We know the score, everything comes down to action.
“NSC pandemic guidelines”
Tell us what those guidelines were and how they would have helped.Pauie’s alias should have been ‘factless generalizations’. He is an empty poster.
Care to frame your antithesis on less of a character assassination basis?
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/national-strategy/index.html
It is easy to look up documents but after they were set up for a specific reason what did they do? Did they attempt to develop new and faster techniques to provide drugs and vaccines. Tell us. Your overinflated ego leaves you without a voice.
Did they replenish the stockpiles of PPE equipment and ventilators?
Per report guidelines, no doubt yes on the PPE. And they would’ve instituted massive production production on ventilators beginning Jan. 19 through the DPA after assessing the etiology of Covid 19.
“massive production production on ventilators beginning Jan. 19 ”
What were the Democrats doing? Impeaching the President.
The Chinese and WHO were saying different things from what we now know. The big question is why Obama didn’t replenish the masks during his term. Another question is why didn’t the pandemic task force see to it that we had adequate stocks? Why didn’t Cuomo buy ventillators when several years ago he was warned that he needed them? Why are our supplies of needed medical things coming from abroad. Trump has been advocating a change decades ago.The Democrats were against him on his attempts to stop so much outsourcing.
Lots of questions but the only one that acted was Trump and the Democrats pummeled him for any action he took.
Find a Democratic leader and blame him for the deaths we now see. Democrats have blood on their hands.
The Democrats in the Senate, on Feb. 5th after being briefed by the administration on the Covid 19 status literally told them they needed to ask for emergency money for pandemic response and they either a) didn’t understand what the Dem senators were telling them, or b) refused to admit is was a problem warranting any additional money.
Not exactly sure which belief was driving the administration…, but both seem equally bad.
“The Democrats in the Senate, on Feb. 5th after being briefed by the administration on the Covid 19 status…”
Why don’t you fill us in on these details with perhaps a name and a quote. Your comment was unintelligable. You said something having to do with needed “emergency money”. You do know what the different branches of government do, don’t you? You also know that Feb 5 was when the Senate dumped the House impeachment effort.
Allan, this early February briefing and the Dem response was the advent of what later turned into the Trump wanting 2 billion in pandemic response money (after wanting none at the time of the briefing) the Senate upping it to 8 billion. That whole episode is documented by many sources, both Democrat and Republican. Search it out, it’s enlightening. It shows up close how clueless the Trump administration (other than scientists) was about the approaching of Covid 19.
“Trump wanting 2 billion ”
Alias Paulie, this is more intelligible than the preceding response. The House, not the President, provides the initial legislation. His request for $2Billion was determined by his experts. The House Democrats were fighting everything Trump did including the Travel Ban so I don’t think he wanted to push for too much. The Democrats could no longer say no like they did with the Travel Ban so they figured they could look four times as good if they agreed to four times as much money. Pure politics because it is doubtful they fully understood what was happening at the time.
The game of politics never ceases with Democrats even when Americans are dying. Democrats have blood on their hands.
Allan, I’m familiar with the process by which the Congress initiates the process before it reaches the Senate…
But I’m not sure I’ve ever met anyone so incapable of figuring out relevance than yourself.
“Allan, I’m familiar with the process by which the Congress initiates the process before it reaches the Senate…”
Paulie, unfortunately you didn’t demonstrate that knowledge in your earlier post and someone had to remind you of that fact.
” figuring out relevance ”
That is why you run away from point by point discussions. Point by point is how one might derive truth and relevance. You are a sissy.
The Democrats did not fight the partial China travel ban as Allan alleges.
“The Democrats did not fight the partial China travel ban as Allan alleges.”
That only means that they didn’t get a judge to declare the Travel Ban illegal. All one has to do is to review the news reports to hear what the media and the Democrats said. The words used included racist, xenophobic, stupid,etc.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285
You can quote the entire Internet without learning a thing.
Can’t help you with your confusion, Allan. You have to put in the work of learning your subjects.
“Can’t help you with your confusion, Allan. You have to put in the work of learning your subjects.”
The place where confusion exists is in your mind. You think citing a source is the same thing as understanding what that source says. That is a problem for you because sometimes the source you cite disagrees with you.
To repeat. Allan, I will always cite a source (if I have the time) that will give the most accurate depiction of a situation. If there are aspects that don’t ‘agree’ with what my perceived position may be I’m open to it and don’t fear posting it.
One way to look at that is the uninformed way>> that I don’t understand what I just posted.
The other way to look at it is that I’m open to true dialectics>> thesis + antithesis = synthesis.
Even though i have enough data to know which of those you’ll choose in regard to me on a personality level, that is indeed a choice for you to make. I can’t control that.
So all best to you in this brand newest of days, cap. Enjoy it.
“To repeat. Allan, I will always cite a source (if I have the time) that will give the most accurate depiction of a situation.”
I can’t predict what you will do in the future but we already have a record of what you have done in the past and it is abominable.
So I’m a snowman now? Bahahahahahahaha.
Can’t develop a vaccine for a disease not yet codified, which Covid 19 wasn’t until 2019.
Finally a comment from Paulie that is important to know and explains why everyone is behind the curve at this time. A few dates:
Dec. 26 preliminary sequencing data
Jan 5 China ruled out SARS, MERS and other Coronaviruses
Jan 12 gene sequence released.
During this time period the Democrats were intent on impeaching the President not looking at any dangers to the country. I think the Senate ended the impeachment Feb 5, but during the Senate hearing Trump on Feb 2 started the Chinese Travel Ban. I am sure when he did that in addition to calling him names for doing so some Democrats were probably wondering if they couldn’t impeach him for the travel ban. The Democrats tied the hands of the country and people likely are dying because of the Democrats.
Trump was the first one in government to address the threat and in reality he addressed the non-specific threat years ago.
Kind of a hodge podge of a response there, not sure which part to address first…
Let’s start by tossing off the impeachment stuff because it has nothing to do with the process of vaccine development Let’s just say, Trump got impeached, he deserved to be impeached. The trial in the Senate was happening concurrently to when things really began to heat up with Covid 19…
…But presidents have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Trump didn’t have to go to the trial, he should’ve been acting as a president during those days. Watching the trial on tv really isn’t in his job description…
That aside: vaccine development. The government is only loosely related. NIH supplies grants for research, the CDC will be loosely related by staying apprised of where current research stands, academia and private pharmaceutical companies are where research and development happens.
Sure, as we saw Fauci confirm in the presser the other day, once a research entity tags on to something promising the government will supply funding through a partnership to bring the drug to market…but we’re looking at a drawn out clinical testing process even after a drug or vaccine reaches that critical stage. There really isn’t much of a way to speed up the process without learning how to speed up human biology and physiology. We’re working with a very deliberate process here…
Not only that, it’s putting ‘the horse before the cart’ as far as pandemic response goes since it’s a long drawn out process. As far as pandemic response goes, the Trump administration has really bungled the middle of the process…
Look at pandemic response like this:
1. isolation of pandemic origins>>block as much as possible transmission out of the area. Trump administration response? Chinese traveller ban. Good job. Much slower on response to Italy and South Korea travel bans.
2. Early diagnostic testing in the U.S. >> abject failure by the Trump administration. It’s getting better as of the last week, but it’s fully 10 weeks too late. And really the only state that has become markedly better is NY. By necessity because after Washington state, it’s the hot spot. Take home point, in order to slow community spread of disease you have to know where it is. That whole process was booted, and booted hard.
3.Interventional health care >> Abject failure of the Trump administration in what their responsibility here would be in activating the Defense Preparedness Act. Trump says he’s done this, but has effectively only used it as a bargaining tool rather than using it as it was intended; that being as a tool to acquire space, acquire materials, hire and put together the workforce and produce the product. This is only to be used in emergencies…Covid 19 is one. The lack of the Trump administration to not accomplish is — even as of this minute! — an epic fail. This is especially critical with PPE and manufacture of ventilators.
4. Supply lines >> Given the shortage of ventilators needed, and the fact that we are fully 3 months behind in dealing with Covid 19; for the next 100 days or so until there can be a new influx of ventilators from manufacture (beginning today), we’ve got to deal with what we have. Good news is that, not all areas will be hit at the same time due to some success with social distancing. But, it is absolutely critical that the Pentagon is brought in to transport existing ventilators from area to area as critically needed. No excuse. If Trump doesn’t activate this immediately it’s tantamount to murder.
5. Manpower >> Xi offered Trump help last week. Xi talks about this, Trump doesn’t. There is absolutely no excuse not to hire Chinese doctors to come into the States to help manage this crisis because, a) they’ve already treated Covid 19 through the whole cycle, they are the world’s experts as a result, and b) many of them got Covid 19 themselves and survived so have the degree of immunity necessary to get as up close as is required in urban hot spots. The fact that Trump has proven incapable of entertaining this practice shows incredible short sightedness.
6. Establishing a national stay at home policy >> Some states have them, some states haven’t. Either way, it’s fallen to the governors to do it since the Trump administration refuses to. They probably hoped the problem would go away. Or as Trump said yesterday ‘ride the bronco’ or whatever he said…
Bottom line: Being *fairly* quick on one travel ban, and *fairly* slow on two others and then focusing on chemotherapy development does NOT equal an effective pandemic response.
These areas of development I’ve described are encompassed by the Pandemic Response plan of the National Security Council that the Trump administration **DID NOT PAY ATTENTION TO**.
Left to its own devices the Trump administration response has boiled down to ignoring Fauci until it’s too late at each stage, having to get talked down and reeled in by Fauci, and then grudgingly acquiescing to what he’d been telling them all along and moving forward with no strategy and foresight.
So I basically wrote you a term paper. We could go point by point and discuss this for months. Basically, on the high side of this mess, it’s worthy of one of the biggest investigatory committee’s in the history of U.S. government. It will not look good on the other side for Trump and his administration…, if Hillary Clinton had to testify for the deaths of 4 soldiers in Benghazzi, Trump absolutely will have to testify in the negligent and totally preventable deaths of 100-200 THOUSAND citizens. There will be charges leveled. It isn’t, and won’t be, pretty.
I think alias Paulie is trying to compete with Natacha. Last time we had this type of discussion he couldn’t even finish round one before he ran away. Let’s deal with this discussion one item at a time. Quantity is not the same as quality.
“Kind of a hodge podge of a response there”
Do you mean establishing a time line is hodge podge? The time line takes us through the important things having to do with what was known about the virus and how the country was ill served by trying to impeach a President instead of taking care of the problems they were supposed to take care of. It also pointed out that Trump was the first one in our three branches to do something about the virus. While he was under impeachment he instituted the Chinese Travel Ban.
Tell us what the Democrats did and explain how the above reply is a hodge podge. Then we can go onto the next point. Remember taking notes from what you read is not the same as understanding what was written nor the realities that exist in the world.
One step at a time so you don’t fall on your face.
I note that once again alias Paulie has run away from a point by point discussion of his Natasha like posting where only the kitchen sink was missing. However, it had the usual Paulie rhetoric, incomplete, twisted, lots of mistruths, etc. No wonder he ran away again.
In partial response to the cowardly Alias Paulie J. I have two separate twitter feeds:
1) Nancy Pelosi 2 videos, one what she says to politicize the pandemic and the second what she is actually doing to help spread the virus on Feb 24 after Trumps Chinese Travelers ban Feb 2
2) Rachel Maddow making a fool of herself stating that the hospital ships wouldn’t be arriving.
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1244709560021069825
1) Video #2 on the first twitter clip is scary,
2) The second video if funny but true.
Alias Paulie J is hopeless.
i established a time line Allan. And pointed out the factors that played into it. Try discussing what i actually wrote. i was nice enough to put the time into it.
“i established a time line Allan. ”
You didn’t establish a time line. You established generalities. I provided you with the dates for an actual usable time line.
F Widget Allan:
Speaking above your head and bringing in points that are rooted in reality and aren’t pulled out of the Fox Network by way of your b hole doesn’t equal me running away.
Read.
Study.
Maybe in a few months you’ll level up enough in your knowledge to be able to converse outside said Fox universe.
Have an awesome day!!
“doesn’t equal me running away.”
Of course it does, alias Paulie because you neither specify what was proven or how. You do make excuses for running away.
Did you bother looking at the videos?
You made a claim which would mean you knew something. Now that you discover you don’t know you have to run away. Answer the question or fade away.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/489608-white-house-deviated-from-pandemic-plan-report
It’s impossible to deal with all your referrals that you haven’t read and don’t understand. so I refer you to the New York Public Library where you can get a lot of answers as to why you sound like an imbicile. I’m not saying you are an imbicile rather I am pointing out a source where you can find that information out.
I attached a source from the CDC.
You post a lot of sources without saying what it is that you are trying to say and why it is pertinent. You are on the blog not the CDC. You can Google but it appears you can’t incorporate the data you Google.
The CDC is the one that should be answering a lot of questions. The President has taken their advice along with the advice of a multiplicity of others. He is not a scientist. He is an executive that uses the talents of the people he works with. What he accomplished in so little time is absolutely amazing. FDR did similar things in war production when he was President. He produced new planes but I don’t think he knew the technology.
I have /to leave for a bit. Not playing the game anymore Allan. Numerous times before you’ve demanded source material. I send it. Then you cite some reason for not reading/trusting. Then you accuse me of running/ being an imbecile/etc.
I’ve spent time answering your insult laced queries. Read what I’ve provided. Or move on to your next fixation. Your choice.
Alias Paulie, you aren’t debating or discussing. You are providing library lists because you don’t know the subject matter.
You provide libraries of material that you haven’t read or haven’t digested.
You argue facts without providing sources.
Both items are needed in such discussions as are on the blog. Without both items your involvement is useless. I can see you do not understand these things so maybe it is better if you go away.
BTW…imbecile is spelled with an ‘e’.
“BTW…imbecile is spelled with an ‘e’.”
It’s important to spell correctly but it is more important to be able to think and understand what you read.
I’m not the greatest typist, nor am I the greatest speller but I have a reasonable ability to think. You have comprimised your ability to think by having a totally closed mind with limited abilities.
Take note of the word compromised that I typed wrong. To you it looks really bad but I don’t worry to much about it as I put my energies into thinking. I don’t even review what I write to you so I am sure that I have made many typing or spelling mistakes. The spell check on this machine seems not to exist.
Allan’s got a bad case of verbal diarrhea.
You should’ve used the expanded ‘too’ rather than the ‘to’…
Beg to differ on that one, Allan. If you’re going to call someone an imbecile it’s really, really, really important that you spell it right. Lol.
Not sure i can emphasize that enough.
Probably best not to call someone that at all. But if you’re going to stoop that low, at least be correct in your execution with it.
My typing and spelling, alias Paulie, has nothing to do with your lack of intelligent discussion. I just responded to one of your replies that was incoherent. That does matter because it demonstrates a lack of brain function.
“You provide libraries of material that you haven’t read or haven’t digested.
You argue facts without providing sources.”
Allan, can you see the conflicted and muddled message in what you typed right here?
“Allan, can you see the conflicted and muddled message”
Only in your mind.
Impeaching this buffoonish, malevolent national security threat is the greatest thing the Democratic Patriots ever could have done to safeguard my beloved country.
to “ya, putin’s prolly got the pics on him, but I think I can learn russian” allan/allen
Krma
Ha.
Marky Mark Mark – Clinton was already impeached but not for losing the nuclear codes on a regular basis. However, I have heard he could be impeached again.
Mark, when you thought up this description of Trump were you looking in a mirror?
so hey mark no face to face CJA meetings in jail up north here anymore, what about down there?
And to repeat, impeachment had nothing to do with Trump’s response to Covid 19. They are fundamentally unrelated topics. If the administration was so caught up in watching the Senate trial on TV when they should’ve been doing their jobs, well, that points even more reason they should’ve been impeached.
“And to repeat, impeachment had nothing to do with Trump’s response to Covid 19. ”
What a bunch of nonsense, alias Paulie. The President was doing things all over the world. The impeachment consumed time from the President and many of his advisors.
When one day you are defending yourself from libel or slander tell us how your work product didn’t suffer.
please wear masks when you go out
https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1244814585896398848?s=20
Kurtz, there are lots of suggestions that can be made but the best I have seen is Purell, social distancing 6-10 feet and not being in an enclosed space for to long with another person who could have Covid 19 along with reduced contact between the population and the elderly or infirm.
If we had the N-95 masks easily available I would advocate all people in constant close contact to wear the mask. I also think a prudent idea would be for everyone to wear a bandana not to protect inhalation of the virus rather to protect others from a cought or sneeze and to protect oneself from touching one’s eyes, nose or mouth.
The problem is we are dealing with human beings and too many keep acting like they did before. NYC is a hot spot. Why? 1) Lots of Chinese Travellers and travellers from all over the world 2) mass transit During rush hour they are litterally squeezed in with the doors of the subways constantly reopening because body parts are in the way. Similar with buses and touching the rails to help remain standing means one is touching many many different person’s diseases. What do you think happens when Influenza is prevalent. I don’t think I need to mention more.
The “press” includes scores of outlets, free of government control, and like in any human endeavor, mistakes will be made. That does not absolve our one president from his obligation of acting responsibly, truthfully, and with the dignity required for true leadership during a crisis. His happy talk misrepresenting of facts, failure to use the power he has to lead the nation, and now finger pointing (with the infantile nick names) belies his inability to meet the minimum standards for leadership and a personality transplant is not an option. Hopefully he gets bored and stops showing up at his rallies …. I mean press conferences. and lets the experts and Pence lead.
The “press” includes scores of outlets, free of government control, and like in any human endeavor, mistakes will be made. That does not absolve our one president from his obligation of acting responsibly, truthfully, and with the dignity required for true leadership during a crisis.
The press have the luxury of reporting events that have happened. The President and his team don’t have that luxury. They have to work in real time and like any human endeavor, mistakes will be made. We won’t know for years what was the best this administration could have done. You lack credible judgment on what passes for responsibility, truthfulness and dignity, given your assessment of the Obiden administration. On the other hand, we can know today what the best the media could be doing. If this is their best at reporting what has happened, then you deserve the angst you got.