We have previously discussed how NBC News anchor Chuck Todd uses questions to express extreme condemnations of President Donald Trump and his supporters. While Todd realizes that he would be fired for saying outright that Trump supporters “just want to be lied to,” he can make the same point by asking another person if they “just want to be lied to.” Todd returned to his feigned neutrality in asking presidential candidate Joe Biden if “there is blood on the president’s hands.” Not to be undone, Speaker Nancy Pelosi has declared that “as the president fiddles, people are dying.” At least Pelosi had the integrity to make the statement outright.
During the interview with Biden, Todd asked “Do you think there is blood on the president’s hands considering the slow response? Or is that too harsh of a criticism?”
Even Biden had to balk and say that it was “a little too harsh.”
Todd has a reputation for using others to make such biased attacks. In addition to Trump, he has been roundly condemned for his bias against Bernie Sanders. As with his earlier comment on Trump supporters, he was criticized previously to quoting someone else to say that were part of a “digital brownshirt brigade.”
For Trump and Sanders supporters, Todd’s record further erodes their faith in the media. The bias shown in these interviews is clearly supported by the network. It would be better to have hosts drop the pretense of such quotations or questions to ask least be open about the agenda or bias with viewers.
Estovir,
I will post my responses over a series of posts so as not to overwhelm a single entry. Also, I am juggling homeschooling my kids and sleep is important and the sun is shining so I do need to get to my garden, so I have only responded as far as “Glutathione”. I will finish when I get a chance.
Estovir says:
Hi Rose
I read your questions and the links. Here are my answers. They require you to do some work though.
As stated nearby with regard to considering treatment / diagnostic approaches for medical pathologies, one needs to study and apply the bedrock content, followed by evolving data in published medical journals, use critical analysis therein and then exercise translation / apply to real life scenarios
my thoughts:
Your article on Zinc / viral inhibition relies on in vitro data.
What is in vitro data?
Data that was collected from experiments done in a test tube or other ‘glass’.
What are its application to real life scenarios if any?
Prairie Rose: In vitro experiments do not necessarily require animal testing, which can be expensive and take a long time. Also, if very limited components of cells are being studied, in vitro experiments would allow for easy isolation. Such targeted experiments can be useful if wider experimentation unhelpfully disrupts other cell processes, for example. However, because cells or bits of tissue are used, the data may be limited (though it is often used in developing new drugs) because the wider, interactive system of a whole organism is not available to see what other outcomes might occur unexpectedly.
What bearing does data from in vivo studies contribute?
Prairie Rose: In vivo studies allow researchers to gain information about the effects of a treatment on a whole, living organism. In vivo studies can carry great weight since negative outcomes are more apparent in such experiments (unintended consequences are potentially more readily apparent). However, quite often the research is conducted over short spans of time and sometimes with a very small number of participants. Also, especially in the case of human subjects, the diet is not necessarily considered or can be controlled, which can interfere with outcomes.
Dear Rose
your children are far more important than asking me questions about matters available in resources I shared with you. I replied to your questions only because you asked for my feedback multiple times. Consequently, to save you the time, here are the answers to the questions I put to you in hopes of getting you to do your own studying. You are far better off however reading the texts I named.
in vitro means “in the glass” thus it is artificial. An in vitro study serves as a test to an idea to see if it warrants further research in vitro. Nothing can be extrapolated from in vitro to real life scenarios. In vivo means “in the living body”. Successful in vivo studies lead to clinical studies, real live patients, which are a whole different level than in vitro.
Glutathione is a protein comprised of 3 amino acids. Thus you don’t need to be taking Glutathione tablets considering you body synthesizes it. Glutathione is a natural anti-oxidant that protects red-blood cells from lysing / rupturing. When stress, injury, pathogen or toxin attack the body, our internal chemistry responds in kind: molecules lose or gain elements, electrons and create unbalanced ions, leading to oxidative stress. Glutathione counters oxidative stress. Anyone telling you to take Glutathione thinks you’re a fool because you already have it in your system, plus to get anything past your acidic stomach of 1.5 on the pH scale is next to impossible. Pharma has that concept as one of their biggest obstacles in bringing drugs to market
RNA Polymerase is an important enzyme in transcription/translation of new proteins, in all living organisms, including viruses. To manipulate, inhibit or alter RNA polymerase is also asking to alter all of the other tissues since they too use RNA Polymerase, among others. Classic cytotoxic chemo agens used in cancer treatments rely on manipulating or inhibiting the DNA of tumor cells, which also impact the DNA of surrounding normal tissues. This is why, in part, cancer chemo is so toxic to the body. It is not targeted therapy, but rather systemic. Same goes for administering an agent that may or may not inhibit RNA Polymerase. The link I provided was to a drug approved by the FDA 2 years ago, an anti-viral, for the flu. Yet, it is hardly used by physicians precisely because it has so many adverse events in manipulating RNA Polymerase, and the benefits are unimpressive, based on in vitro, in vivo and clinical trials combined, so there you go.
Medicine is incredibly complicated, especially in our modern era. The COVID scenario is really complicated for the reasons I have stated previously. But complicated medical, scientific concepts do not sell nor do they attract news headlines. People want it all, and they want it now with no cost to them. And the news media is all too happy to ramp up the hysteria to get people to listen to them. In the end they are wh8res dressed in nice dressed and snazzy suits with less morals. At least prostitutes admit their depravity.
Better to spend your time with your children and providing the world with well adjusted adults who may lead our nation. What you are doing is far more important, indeed, the most daunting job in the world. So go to them. The books will be laying right where you left them. Thanks for elevating the discussion on this blog for a few days.
peace to you
Estovir,
“I replied to your questions only because you asked for my feedback multiple times. …You are far better off however reading the texts I named.”
Thank you for taking the time to answer–I really appreciate it! I like learning and will look to getting those textbooks. One is not too expensive on Amazon, used, but the other will have to wait…maybe for Christmas. 🙂
All my responses to your questions are below. I am not sure why the one above posted to the top of the page. If you find any misunderstandings in my answers, please correct me.
“At least prostitutes admit their depravity.”
Heh. Makes me think of the Pirate King in The Pirates of Penzance. Some things never change…
“Better to spend your time with your children and providing the world with well adjusted adults who may lead our nation.”
They are good kids. I hope they will grow to be good leaders, too, in whatever they choose to do. We did homeschool today but then the outdoors beckoned and my boys had fun getting muddy and helping me plant spinach and radishes. My daughter has done a lot of baking as of late.
Thank you again. I’d best not burn the midnight oil again. Goodnight!
Peace be with you, too.
The extremists are resorting to their old ways not realizing their time is up. Not like they are real citizens. Now to get rid of the Comintern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=WkuAF2B5o8M&feature=emb_logo
Joe Biden is a sleezebag rapist. As a senator, he sexually assalted a staffer who worked for him. She’s trying to tell her story. Total MSM media blackout. Not one question to Old Creepy Joe. It’s nice to be a Democrat.
Joe Biden is corrupt. His son is corrupt. His entire family got wealthy by cashing in on Sleezy Joe’s political office. It’s nice to be a Democrat.
Hi Rose
I read your questions and the links. Here are my answers. They require you to do some work though.
As stated nearby with regard to considering treatment / diagnostic approaches for medical pathologies, one needs to study and apply the bedrock content, followed by evolving data in published medical journals, use critical analysis therein and then exercise translation / apply to real life scenarios
my thoughts:
Your article on Zinc / viral inhibition relies on in vitro data.
What is in vitro data?
What are its application to real life scenarios if any?
What bearing does data from in vivo studies contribute?
The article stated it applied Zinc to RNA polymerase.
What is RNA Polymerase?
Why isnt this approach used in all, most, any viruses?
Manipulating RNA polymerase has its hazards. What are they? (Hint: same answer for traditional DNA inhibitors used in cancer chemo drugs and HIV)
What other studies were done using this paradigm that corroborated their findings? (Hint: see
The number one barrier for pharma for new drug discoveries is introducing it the human body without the body metabolizing the drug.
If the Zinc / RNA Poly researchers can introduce their Zinc agent to an organism in vitro, what obstacles exist to replicating their findings in a human body? Hint: what is the pH in the stomach?
How does the immune system respond to exogenous antigens?
You are suggesting taking Zinc supplements to counter COVID-19.
You are doing so based on:
1. in vitro data
2. questionable methods in the article you cited. (Please review their methods using critical analysis.)
3. lack of evidenced based data that it is efficacious and has been reproduced in vivo
Q: Why would you adopt this paradigm? Would you submit your children and loved ones to this?
Regarding Glutathione…
What is it (chemically speaking)?
What is its role in our bodies?
How does the body synthesize or acquire it without supplements? Why?
What makes you think taking it (and presumably increasing concentration of antioxidants in your body) has any benefit with regard to morbidity and mortality? in other words, where is your evidenced based data to support such a practice? Hint: the consumption of omega 3 fatty acids was adopted whole cloth by many leading physicians worldwide until last year.
Medical paradigms change on a dime. It pays to always demand data, use critical analysis, and ask the obvious questions like those I asked
I applaud you for looking for answers to timely medical events. However the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Read, study, pour over established knowledge bases like textbooks. Then….launch. You cant dissect treatment paradigms for COVID-19 without understanding clinical Biochemistry, e.g. Glutathione
see first in class RNA Polymerase Xofluza (baloxavir marboxil)
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-new-drug-treat-influenza
Thank you, Estovir! I look forward to diving in soon. Getting kiddos to bed now.
Estovir,
Well, I’ll try this again. If my previous response pops out of the WP filter, forgive the duplicate response.
I will be posting in a series so as not to overwhelm the system. 🙂 We’ll see if that works. Also, I am juggling homeschooling 4 children now and do need to get out to my garden while the sun shines, and, I was lacking sleep, so I have only answered up to the section regarding glutathione. I will get to it as soon as I can.
Thank you for this opportunity to consider and double-check what knowledge I have, as well as an opportunity to learn more!
What is in vitro data?
Prairie Rose: Data that was collected from experiments done in a test tube or other ‘glass’.
What are its application to real life scenarios if any?
Prairie Rose: In vitro experiments do not necessarily require animal testing, which can be expensive and take a long time. Also, if very limited components of cells are being studied, in vitro experiments would allow for easy isolation. Such targeted experiments can be useful if wider experimentation unhelpfully disrupts other cell processes, for example. However, because cells or bits of tissue are used, the data may be limited (though it is often used in developing new drugs) because the wider, interactive system of a whole organism is not available to see what other outcomes might occur unexpectedly.
What bearing does data from in vivo studies contribute?
Prairie Rose: In vivo studies allow researchers to gain information about the effects of a treatment on a whole, living organism. In vivo studies can carry great weight since negative outcomes are more apparent in such experiments (unintended consequences are potentially more readily apparent). However, quite often the research is conducted over short spans of time and sometimes with a very small number of participants. Also, especially in the case of human subjects, the diet is not necessarily considered or can be controlled, which can interfere with outcomes.
The article stated it applied Zinc to RNA polymerase.
What is RNA Polymerase?
Prairie Rose: RNA polymerase is the enzyme that helps copy DNA into an RNA during transcription.
Why isnt this approach used in all, most, any viruses?
Prairie Rose: It depends upon whether the virus requires RNA polymerase based on its genome and how it transcribes. If they did it all the same, they’d be easier to thwart. 😉
Manipulating RNA polymerase has its hazards. What are they? (Hint: same answer for traditional DNA inhibitors used in cancer chemo drugs and HIV)
Prairie Rose: It doesn’t have a “proofreader” so mistakes can be made more easily. That would explain why coronaviruses are one of the viruses associated with the common cold—it mutates easily/seasonally.
What other studies were done using this paradigm that corroborated their findings? (Hint: see
Prairie Rose: Zinc Salts Block Hepatitis E Virus Replication by Inhibiting the Activity of Viral RNA-Dependent RNA Polymerase. Nidhi Kaushik, Chandru Subramani,a Saumya Anang, et al. Journal of Virology. August 2017.
Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 2004 Mar; 48(3): 783–790. Effect of Zinc Salts on Respiratory Syncytial Virus Replication Rahaman O. Suara1 and James E. Crowe, Jr.1,2,*
JOURNAL OF VIROLOGY, Aug. 1974. P. 282-291 Copyright © 1974 American Society for Microbiology Vol. 14, No. 2. Characterization of the Large Picornaviral Polypeptides Produced in the Presence of Zinc Ion BYRON E. BUTTERWORTH AND BRUCE D. KORANT
The number one barrier for pharma for new drug discoveries is introducing it the human body without the body metabolizing the drug. If the Zinc / RNA Poly researchers can introduce their Zinc agent to an organism in vitro, what obstacles exist to replicating their findings in a human body? Hint: what is the pH in the stomach?
Prairie Rose: Stomach acidity is about a pH of 2, with some wiggle room. Zinc requires sufficient stomach acid to be absorbed effectively. (JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 1995 Sep-Oct;19(5):393-7. Effect of intragastric pH on the absorption of oral zinc acetate and zinc oxide in young healthy volunteers. Henderson LM1, Brewer GJ, Dressman JB, , et al.). And, zinc actually helps produce stomach acid (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322491), so low stomach acid could induce poor zinc absorption and thus a vicious cycle. Things like stress, proton pump inhibitors, and Heliobacter pylori infection are also common causes of low stomach acid. Phytic acid also binds to zinc, decreasing absorption, so a diet high in grains, legumes, and nuts could also decrease zinc absorption (J Food Sci Technol. 2015 Feb; 52(2): 676–684. Reduction of phytic acid and enhancement of bioavailable micronutrients in food grains Raj Kishor Gupta, Shivraj Singh Gangoliya, and Nand Kumar Singh). Considering the highly-processed carbohydrate-rich diet of a large proportion of Americans, at least a subclinical deficiency of zinc is likely.
How does the immune system respond to exogenous antigens?
Prairie Rose: Exogenous antigens are non-body structures that are targeted by antibodies. They are ‘eaten’ via phagocytosis or endocytosis by immune cells, enzymatically digested, and presented to T-Cells after the endoplasmic reticulum makes specialized proteins to attach the bits to the membrane, so, based on the identification of the ‘body parts’, the T-Cells can more effectively launch an attack. The exogenous antigens fit with particular antibodies, though they can cross-react sometimes with similar antigens.
You are suggesting taking Zinc supplements to counter COVID-19.
You are doing so based on:
1. in vitro data
2. questionable methods in the article you cited. (Please review their methods using critical analysis.)
3. lack of evidenced based data that it is efficacious and has been reproduced in vivo
Q: Why would you adopt this paradigm? Would you submit your children and loved ones to this?
1. Zinc in vitro data demonstrates at the micro-level in what way Zn is necessary for effective cellular function, and, that it is effective against cold viruses. There are also studies demonstrating in vivo efficacy. So, taking zinc in moderate doses over the short-term, particularly considering the problems with absorption mentioned earlier, should be safe. Yes, it depends upon the form of zinc. Zinc oxide is not effective. Zinc citrate or zinc gluconate was better absorbed.
2. Which article? I cited several. Also, I noted that the Journal of Cell Biology article and the PLoS Pathogens article were cited quite a few times by other researchers for reputable journals, so they didn’t have the same level of concern over the methods.
3. I do not see a lack of evidence based data.
Adv Nutr. 2019 Jul; 10(4): 696–710. The Role of Zinc in Antiviral Immunity. Scott A Read,1,2 Stephanie Obeid,3 Chantelle Ahlenstiel,3 and Golo Ahlenstiel.
Open Respir Med J. 2011; 5: 51–58. Zinc Lozenges May Shorten the Duration of Colds: A Systematic Review. Harri Hemilä*
I would adopt this paradigm because zinc is a necessary part of the normal diet that is often inadequately ingested or poorly absorbed, and, the in vitro studies indicate that it is effective against cold viruses, including coronaviruses. I have had antibodies against H. pylori, and, while I did take medication to eliminate them, what if they recolonized? I do not think they have, but I cannot see inside my stomach. My husband and I already have been taking low levels of zinc on a regular basis (by eating lozenges and oysters mostly) to gird our immune systems. I will not speak for my husband, but I have certainly noticed that any colds that seem to be trying to take hold do not ‘lock in’. I give my kids zinc lozenges at smaller doses if a cold is rearing its ugly head.
Darren,
Word Press has eaten my comment twice and it does not have links nor dirty words. Would you be able to free it?
Darren,
I am going to try to repost by breaking it into smaller chunks. If that works, please ignore my prior request. Thank you for all your help!
Estovir,
Third try is the charm, I hope. Kiddos are in bed so I had a chance to finish…
Regarding Glutathione…
What is it (chemically speaking)?
Prairie Rose: It is a family of enzymes that protect the body from oxidate stress and whose base is often a selenoprotein. It is built using the amino acids glutamate, glycine, and cysteine, and, quite often, a selenoprotein.
What is its role in our bodies?
Prairie Rose: Glutathione acts as an antioxidant, meaning it destroys Reactive Oxygen Species, which are the byproduct of the functions of other organelles, such as from mitochondrial aerobic glycolosis or the protein folding of the ER. ROS, if not dealt with, acts kind of like a smog in a closed room. It can induce the production of inflammatory cytokines (such as TGF-B). It can also cause further inefficiency on the part of the other organelles, leading eventually to apoptosis.
What makes you think taking it (and presumably increasing concentration of antioxidants in your body) has any benefit with regard to morbidity and mortality? in other words, where is your evidenced based data to support such a practice? Hint: the consumption of omega 3 fatty acids was adopted whole cloth by many leading physicians worldwide until last year.
Prairie Rose: I did not recommend taking glutathione. Doing so would be a waste of money since the body does not absorb it when taken in that form. Better to take selenium, without which the body cannot effectively construct GSH. Only taking small amounts of selenium is highly recommended since it is not easily secreted by the body (like magnesium is) and is toxic at high levels. Having a high inflammatory load (which can be induced by poorly managed ROS) is associated with all kinds of disease and disorder. Of course, making sure your endoplasmic reticulum can effectively produce GSH doesn’t lie solely with making sure your diet has enough selenium or you absorb optimal amounts. Other elements affect the endoplasmic reticulum’s ability (and other organelle’s ability also) to function effectively. I would not want doctors, or anyone for that matter, thinking they’d found a ‘silver bullet’ to complex conditions or diseases. The body is a complex, inter-related, interactive system. Dysfunction needs to be addressed with that system in mind. Omega-3 fatty acids aren’t going to do a lick of good if the patient continues eating processed food, sleeping crazy hours, or not managing stress effectively. Addressing outright deficiencies and insufficiencies and aiming for repletion would be a start.
Morbidity/Mortality:
Glutathione deficiency of the lower respiratory tract in patients with idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis
K.M. Beeh, J. Beier, et al. European Respiratory Journal 2002 19: 1119-1123
Antioxid Redox Signal. 2008 Feb; 10(2): 355–370. Antioxidants as Potential Therapeutics for Lung Fibrosis. BRIAN J. DAY
Glutathione Peroxidase 1 Activity and Cardiovascular Events in Patients with Coronary Artery Disease Stefan Blankenberg, M.D., Hans J. Rupprecht, M.D., Christoph Bickel, M.D. N Engl J Med 2003;349:1605-13.
The following article discusses a wide variety of diseases that are affected by insufficient GSH, and, quite often a co-commitent selenium deficiency:
Antioxid Redox Signal. 2011 Oct 1; 15(7): 1957–1997. Glutathione Peroxidase-1 in Health and Disease: From Molecular Mechanisms to Therapeutic Opportunities. Edith Lubos,1 Joseph Loscalzo,2 and Diane E. Handy
Serum zinc and pneumonia in nursing home elderly
Simin N. Meydani, DVM, PhD, Junaidah B. Barnett, PhD, […], and Davidson H. Hamer, MD
The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Volume 86, Issue 4, October 2007, Pages 1167–1173
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323679/
Medical paradigms change on a dime. It pays to always demand data, use critical analysis, and ask the obvious questions like those I asked
Prairie Rose: I agree.
Well this is a damning article:
The stockpiles did not grow. And now America finds itself trying to adapt by the seat of its pants for a crisis that health care policymakers had been properly warned about for nearly two decades. The outcome is painful for those who sounded the alarm.
“Everyone knew,” Shays said. “Now, the public knows.”
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/pandemic-neglect-how-us-health-care-failed-heed-warnings-supply
And there’s this:
“Event 201
The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated areas where public/private partnerships will be necessary during the response to a severe pandemic in order to diminish large-scale economic and societal consequences.
Statement about nCoV and our pandemic exercise
In recent years, the world has seen a growing number of epidemic events, amounting to approximately 200 events annually. These events are increasing, and they are disruptive to health, economies, and society. Managing these events already strains global capacity, even absent a pandemic threat. Experts agree that it is only a matter of time before one of these epidemics becomes global—a pandemic with potentially catastrophic consequences. A severe pandemic, which becomes “Event 201,” would require reliable cooperation among several industries, national governments, and key international institutions.”
http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/
Perhaps having occurred in October was too soon to the actual start of a real pandemic, but its frustrating that it appears TPTB didn’t listen to their own advice.
Thank you PR. What is TPTD?
Sorry, what is TPTB?
Olly,
TPTB is shorthand for The Powers That Be. The high mucky-mucks who were presumedly paying attention to scenarios detrimental to the nation. 🙂
Thank you Prairie Rose, that made me CHOULD. Chuckle Out Loud! 😆
Another good article. Short and to the point:
This morning, MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough claimed that, unlike the Trump administration, “Everybody saw this coming in early January.”
If Scarborough knew that a deadly, once-in-a-century pandemic was about to descend on the nation in early January — I assume he considers himself part of “everyone” — why on God’s earth didn’t he warn his susceptible viewers that they should begin social distancing? Why didn’t his producers book a single expert who could beseech his viewers to start wearing masks, to shutter their non-essential businesses, and to avoid church and sporting events? Why didn’t he mention coronavirus at all? Even in late January, nearly a full month after “everyone knew,” Scarborough’s show was dominated by the Donald Trump impeachment trial.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/armchair-quarterbacks-try-to-rewrite-history-on-coronavirus/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Daily%20Monday%20through%20Friday%202020-04-01&utm_term=NRDaily-Smart
Rose
I have replied to your questions 3 times today but none of my attempts were successful. The server must not have liked my data
😉
lets see if this goes through. Im just letting you know I am not ignoring your questions
Estovir,
I have had similar problems on occasion. I found that one of the problems was related to me using Iron instead of Chrome as a browser of all things. Other times it seems it is just Word Press acting up inexplicably.
“The server must not have liked my data
😉
🙂
lets see if this goes through. Im just letting you know I am not ignoring your questions”
Thank you, I appreciate the update. 🙂
Oh, just thought of something. Sometimes too many links causes WP to eat posts. Sometimes Darren can free them from the filter after breaking the link so it isn’t active. I think only 2 links are allowed per post.
It had only one link and it was to NEJM. I reposted my content above without the NEJM data and it was accepted by the server. It was probably a character it mistook for a red flag.
Estovir,
Now it seems I am having trouble posting.
well lookee here, the vaunted US “intelligence community” is now saying what i was saying here a month ago and ever since.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-china-hid-extent-of-outbreak-us-intelligence-reportedly-says.html
Yes, if you said that you were right, but this is apparently an update to a similar report the intelligence services did in January
i was just repeating what i read on the much maligned “Epoch times,” was reporting; what Steve Bannon was reporting in his pandemic broadcast, and what my guanxi in central China was happening. I am not a person of special insight or genius, i just saw facts and reported them because i thought it would be useful to people
the vaunted intelligence services probably did know, and they should have been begging Trump to go hard and fast on this. like steve bannon was
but, since they have a bad track record of subverting him, he ignored them, probably, that would be my guess.
it’s really a disappointment but probably a lot bigger disappointments are right around the corner, don’t get too worked up over it.
Kurtz,
Here’s another take on the same report:
It’s beyond obvious that they’ve been lying, and it looks like the facade is starting to crumble internally, too. Let’s start with a reminder of how preposterous the ‘official’ stats have been. This chart depicts how Hong Kong — an island of openness that moved aggressively against Coronavirus in its early stages, with a fair amount of success — supposedly accounts for a wildly disproportionate number of China’s total active cases. The only logical conclusion here is that the mainland numbers are scandalously underreported, as underscored by the heavy sarcasm in this tweet:
As we all know, there are two regions in China:
– The well-organized mainland, which has about 0.05 cases per million, and
– The dopey goofball region of Hong Kong, known for its deep incompetence, which despite being <1% of the population has 20% of the reported active cases.
The Wuhan Coronavirus is rising precipitously in Hong Kong, but in mainland China — where the disease originated (this is interesting and I'd like to learn more about it) — it's just a smooth flattened curve down to almost no cases. Who in their right mind believes this charade? Certainly not the American intelligence community, which has reportedly determined what almost everyone strongly suspected to be the case:
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2020/04/01/reversal-the-chinese-government-doesnt-even-believe-its-own-coronavirus-propaganda-and-fake-statistics-n2566136?utm_source=thdailypm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm&newsletterad=&bcid=f57636be4fd2e8b3ece44644d0db5a6b&recip=20237241
In Hong Kong, there have been 4 deaths and there are 5 serious-critical cases per worldometers. In Macao, there are none. There are 8 million people in those two dependencies. If our situation were similar, we’d have had about 165 deaths and would have maybe 200 on ventilators. If only that were true.
DSS,
What do you believe is the most reliable data source for this pandemic?
No clue. I use Worldometers and Statista. I’ve tried using the CDC cite and the Johns Hopkins site, but I cannot seem to locate the data which interests me. (I’m not interested in ‘cases’, which is an artifact of the testing tempo, but deaths, hospitalizations, and ICU admissions).
Thank you
I get emails from a hospital organization in my area. While they did not share the ICU admissions, they did include the diagnoses and hospitalizations. It came out to about 13% of people sick enough to come in to get tested were hospitalized. What percentage of those who required specialized care was not stated. Nor did they include any other relevant information of those hospitalized (e.g., age, comorbidities). The emails did seem to indicate that they were not being overwhelmed (and I received the email just a few days ago).
So, about 85% of people sick enough to seek care/diagnosis will be treated on an outpatient basis.
Interesting to me Hospitals have started laying off Doctors & Nurses.
One of the sources I’m using I know personally here in Tulsa.
We’ll see, a news group, War Room @ infowars, I follow is asking people to report in what they are seeing at hospitals the next day or so.
I think this Wuhan Chicom bio weapon attack is starting to end.
Others & I are just wondering what the next attack will be by the American hating Commies & the globalist deep state?
Voter Fraud, then Russia, Russia, Russia, impeach, impeach, impeach & know Wuhan Bio weapon attack, Wuhan…., Wuhan….. & we see the enemy already working their USA Voter Fraud crap.
Look at these damned commie govt dictators!
https://banned.video/watch?id=5e84e85a8c7add0094a1768d
No, CNBC is propagating a story. (1) they may have fabricated it. (2) if they didn’t, it may be s skeezy pr game by bureaucratic factions.
The ghost of Edward Bernays?
The agency which promoted John Brennan within the ranks for 35 years.
Taiwan to Donate Ten Million Masks to U.S., E.U.
By MAIREAD MCARDLE
April 1, 2020 1:23 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/taiwan-to-donate-ten-million-masks-to-u-s-e-u/
Russia sending medical equipment, supplies to the U.S. for coronavirus relief
The country remains largely unaffected by the virus and is sending support to the U.S.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/490555-russia-sending-medical-equipment-supplies-to-the
OT: For any with anti-semitic tendencies
Coronavirus: Why Palestinian Leaders Are Not Helping Gaza to Combat It
by Bassam Tawil • April 1, 2020 at 5:00 am
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The Palestinian Authority (PA) leadership has done virtually nothing to help the Gaza Strip confront the coronavirus pandemic. Ironically, the only country that has been helping the Gaza Strip in the past few weeks is Israel.
The question is, why is the PA ignoring calls to help the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip in their effort to prevent the spread of the coronavirus? One explanation — that accords with history — is that if a large number of Palestinians living in Gaza there are infected… the PA leadership wants the world to blame Israel.
It is important to emphasize that there is no Israeli “siege” on the Gaza Strip. First, the Gaza Strip shares borders not only with Israel, but also with Egypt. It is Egypt, not Israel… that is effectively blockading Gaza.
The United Nations, regardless, is also trying to pave the way for holding Israel responsible for the possible spread of the virus in the Gaza Strip.
Mahmoud Abbas is undoubtedly looking forward to a day when he can hold Israel fully responsible for the outbreak of the coronavirus in the Gaza Strip. He is also likely waiting for the UN and many in the international community to join him in blaming Israel and Jews for the spread of the pandemic among his people while ignoring his own responsibility for the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip.
cont: https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15805/coronavirus-palestinians-gaza
How Obama’s failure to resupply respirators in federal stockpile created a 2020 crisis [My addition: multiple Presidents and the bureaucracy but he who used them needed to replace them or provide the rationale why they weren’t needed to protect healthcare workers.]
The stockpile’s 100 million supply of N95 respirator masks was never fully replenished after 2009 swine flu pandemic, experts say.
The Strategic National Stockpile, America’s giant medical storage closet for a terrorist or biological crisis, once boasted more than 100 million respirator masks to protect doctors, nurses and other frontline health care workers in case of a contagion.
But when the COVID-19 pandemic started a few months ago, the supply had dwindled down to just 12 million fitted masks, known as N95 respirators, and 30 million surgical masks, a supply deemed to be less than 2 percent of what the nation would need for full-blown pandemic.
The tale of how such a critical supply lapsed, leading the Trump administration to scramble for 500 million new masks in the midst of pandemic, is one of government neglect and competing priorities that began in 2009.
That’s when the Obama administration drew down nearly 97 million of the masks to deal with the H1N1 swine flu pandemic, effectively protecting frontline medical workers from a virus that infected more than 60 million Americans.
But when it was over, the administration decided not to fully restock the respirators, choosing to spend its $600 million annual budget for the stockpile on other priorities such as key drugs and vaccines to deal with smallpox, anthrax and the like, experts said.
There is really “no answer why the supplies were not replenished because the N95 masks are invaluable tools for preparedness and it was important that they be restocked,” said Charles Johnson, President of International Safety Equipment Association, whose members make supplies for the stockpile.
In the end, Johnson said, the Obama administration chose to use its “limited funds” in other ways and “made the best choices at the time even though his association and others periodically restated their calls to replenish” the N95 masks. That trend continued in the early Trump years as well.
The Clinton administration first began to examine a national plan to respond to pandemics and create the federal stockpile in 1990s. But the formal National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza was not officially published until 2005 during the George W. Bush administration, following the anthrax scare in 2001 and the severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2002.
The 2005 plan created the Strategic National Stockpile of medical supplies and equipment under the auspices of the Department of Health and Human Services and called for the distribution of supplies from six highly secured sites to state and local sites after a pandemic “surge.” This Strategic National Stockpile is totally separate from the site in Dubai that the U.S. government uses for international distribution under the Foreign Assistance Act.
According to a Center for Disease Control report published after the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, 39 million N95 masks were initially distributed from the stockpile, followed by 59.5 million more in second wave. According to Johnson, the stockpile originally was about 100 million masks.
From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, there were over 60 million cases of H1N1 requiring 274,304 hospitalizations and resulting in 12,469 deaths in the United States.
After the H1N1 virus slowed down in 2010, according to Johnson, “it was important to restock.” That did not happen as the national stockpile budget focused on other priorities deemed higher.
A recent summary of how HHS planned to spend its stockpile budget shows nearly half of the annual budget was spent on antibiotics and vaccines for an anthrax outbreak, a nerve agent antidote and an antiviral medication for the flu.
Greg Burel, the official who oversaw the stockpile for years before his recent retirement, told the Washington Post recently that officials made decisions based on risk analysis that prioritized the drugs, which expire every few years, over supplies like the masks.
“If there is a drug product that we must have or else people would die and a commercial product we can buy in a time of need, then we’re going to invest in that drug product,” Burel explained to the newspaper. “Those are the kind of hard decisions you have to make.”
Such explanation is little solace now for health care workers scrambling to find respirators on the frontlines of the pandemic who feel like they are victims of rationing.
One Massachusetts nurse interviewed by Just the News said she sent a mask to her daughter who is also a nurse administering to COVID-19 patients in New York. “I’m terrified my daughter is going to get COVID-19. Her hospital had no mask to give her,” the nurse told us.
Another nurse in St. Louis told Just the News that she is “mad as hell” learning her hospital has N95 masks but is not distributing them to all the staff, particularly those on non-COVID-19 floors.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/how-obamas-failure-resupply-respirators-federal-stockpile-created-2020
And….what has Trumpy Bear been doing for 3 + years between rounds of golf and vainglory rallies? This was more than enough time to replenish any stocks that might be needed to realign priorities and to be fully prepared to deal with COVID-19.
Joe Biden was interviewed yesterday by Brian Williams, and he said that in January, 2017, the Trump Administration was extensively briefed on the inevitability of a pandemic happening at some point in time, the need for preparedness and they were provided with the playbook, spelling out the equipment needed and actions that should be taken.
Obviously Trump did none of these things. Trump fired the head of the NSC pandemic rapid response team. Just yesterday, Trumpy Bear claimed he knew all along how bad it might be, but he took no action because he didn’t want to frighten Americans. Therefore, according to you Trumpsters, all of his lying, foot dragging and delays are OK, because it was for our own good. Most people don’t believe this–it appears that the message from the physicians at the CDC just began to sink in under that rug on his head, especially when the number of cases and rate of unemployment kept going up, and the stock market kept going down, proving that he was bluffing all along, trying to prevent the recession that’s coming. America lost precious time while he was lying about 15 cases soon being 0 cases, there will be chemotherapy and a vaccine “very soon”, and it will “magically disappear” in April, a lie which he repeated yesterday. There are still 17 states that have not imposed stay at home orders, mostly led by Republican governors. And, IMHO that is precisely the reason that Dr. Fauci wasn’t allowed to give a straight answer to Savannah Guthrie’s question about whether the good doctor was recommending that these states implement a stay at home order. Trump also tried to accuse health care providers of stealing PPE, and accused the Democratic governors of NY, NJ and CN of dragging their feet and overstating the need for ventilators. Trump has politicized COVID-19. Just like everything in the life of this pathetic excuse for a human, he has turned everything into cover for his failures or praise for him.
In any event, there ain’t no way in hell you’re going to get away with blaming Trumpy Bear’s incompetence on Obama.
Nutjob Natatcha said what?
Natacha – still waiting on your BMI!!! Enquiring minds want to know!!!!
FY
How big is your …
Never mind.
btb – it is nice of you to white knight for Natacha, however as a supposed lawyer she should be able to defend herself.
“Joe Biden was interviewed yesterday by Brian Williams, and he said that in January, 2017, the Trump Administration was extensively briefed on the inevitability of a pandemic happening at some point in time, the need for preparedness and they were provided with the playbook, spelling out the equipment needed and actions that should be taken.”
Take note I didn’t mention Obama and Biden in my response a minute ago trying to keep things apolitical, but since you can’t adequately write a sentence I guess I have to.
Biden wouldn’t know what Trump was briefed on and he might not even know what he had for breakfast.
On day you might learn what you are talking about. The rest of the post is garbage as well.
Now you’re an expert on what Joe Biden does or doesn’t know? You don’t think he has any idea about what’s involved in the briefing when government is handed off to an incoming administration, or that there was a playbook? Based on what specific facts, exactly? Trump’s wild and false claim that no one had any idea this could happen? And, you criticize me for not knowing what the hell I’m talking about?
This is the most-perfect example of the immorality of Fox News for its calculated indoctrination of the Disciples of Trump. I saw an actual interview with Joe Biden. He related specific facts directly relevant to this crisis that make Trump look bad, so you pivot, accuse Biden of lying, and accuse me of being stupid.
You also think that when someone points out that this pandemic was indeed foreseen, that plans were formulated for how to deal with it, and that all of this was conveyed to Trump, which he ignored and for which we are now paying a dear price, that this is political. Tell that to the doctors, nurses, police officers and firefighters who battle COVID-19 every day, and who have to stand by helplessly and watch people die.
“you’re an expert on what Joe Biden does or doesn’t know?”
I’m not an expert but it doesn’t take one to see that Biden is impaired. I feel sorry for him but many end up going through the same problem as we age. Some like Anonymous the Stupid start when they are younger so people don’t notice the difference.
Allan’s so easy. Gotta bite.
“He related specific facts directly relevant to this crisis that make Trump look bad, so you pivot, accuse Biden of lying, and accuse me of being stupid.”
Allan in a nutshell.
The National Stockpile was most recently refunded on an almost completely bi-partisan vote in 2013. The choices made as to how to use their limited budget are outlined in the article Allan posts above, which he apparently he did not read.
Trump has been president for 3 years now, or the same time period Obama did after that bill, but dissolved the pandemic task force which one presumes would have responded quickly to the security agencies warnings in January. One can safely say that the shortage in the National Stockpile was an error based on budgetary choices without partisan blame. The dissolution of the pandemic task force and inaction since January falls squarely on Trump.
From the article: “The stockpile’s 100 million supply of N95 respirator masks was never fully replenished after 2009 swine flu pandemic, experts say.”
Don’t accuse others of doing what you do all the time. You don’t bother to read and frequently don’t even understand what you quote.
Yes, there were other things that needed funding so the Obama administration left the frontline physicians and nurses along with other health professionals without an adequate mask supply. Obama did loads of other things he found more important than making sure our healthcare system didn’t fall apart. He passed Obamacare and one would think that to would focus on such an emergency. Instead he focuses on making working families support the premiums of lower income workers and those that didn’t work.
Of course Obama provided the annual exam for “free” and loaded the physician with extra work, delayed payments etc. He did that as well as making sure when something bad happened physicians and nurses would be facing infectious diseases without masks.
Allan’s comments are proven false by a reading of his own post above, the facts of how the Stockpile is operated, who funds it – Congress, and as recently as 2013 on a largely bi-partisan vote – and the undeniable fact that Trump has been president for 3 years and did nothing to correct that situation, dissolved the WH pandemic task force which one assumes – as Dr Fauci himself has confirmed – would have been a big help in getting a response going sooner and especially after the security agencies warnings in early January. The pandemic task force included a seat on the National Security Council, most recently a doctor who was also an admiral.
That Obama didn’t see to it that the supply be immediately restocked is true. He wasn’t terribly concerned with things the public didn’t see. That is how he passed Obamacare. As his advisor said, ‘the public wouldn’t permit passage knowing certain things in it’. His name slips my mind.
Trump has been President for ~3 years. That is true. Based on all the things he was doing he might not have even known about the stockpile. Whatever fault he is responsible for it is certainly diminished by Congress doing nothing about it since they supply the budget bills and also diminished by Democrats who for ~3 years were too busy trying to get rid of Trump.
I think not only Fauci said it would be a big help but Trump did as well. However what we hear from the Obama team with Biden representing it is lies.
No doubt Obama spent much time checking the National Stockpiles, including hiring the independent contractors doing inventory. He probably figured on funding the pandemic task force with money meant for face masks.
Ask yourself, what was his number 1 project? Healthcare. One would think that as President if he were revamping a healthcare system he would include thoughts about pandemic viruses and make sure we were stocked to the brim to secure the healthcare system and protect the doctors and nurses so that they could provide care under such circumstances. Obama wasn’t a deep thinker when it came to those types of things. If he was thinking of a Medicare for All or something similar the first place he could have started would be where the federal government had some responsibility, pandemics.
“…the first place he could have started would be where the federal government had some responsibility, pandemics.”
Yeah, that’s why he created the WH pandemic task force with a seat on the NSC.
Obama loved creating bureaucracies and loved seeing his friends get rewards. He wasn’t much of a doer and when he did something it was generally half done.
Wait…you’re saying Obama wasn’t a deep thinker but Trump is with ‘such things’?
What exactly has Trump thought about?
There are literally four huge things Trump could’ve done re pandemic response beginning for Covid 19 and hasn’t to date…
What’s the deep thinking hold up with him?
Literally….
Yeah, you’re right Absurd. Wrong word typed in a hurry.
Just look around. You can cite things from Google, but you can’t understand them.
Allan you’re a cliche. You amazingly brilliant deep thinking sock puppet you.
I bet your posts are generated by a handful of Trump mutant teenagers. With red hats. In a drinking game.
Paulie, your command of the English language makes one wonder where you went to school.
“Based on all the things he was doing he might not have even known about the stockpile.” I guess it is a matter of priorities.
He has golfed and vacationed more in 3 years than Obama did in 8. He spends most mornings on “executive time”, reading newspapers, watching cable news programs, tweeting out insults to the anchors on Morning Joe, and looking for praise and adulation from the Church of Trump, a/k/a Fox News. I guess there isn’t much time left for things like thinking about a pandemic that could kill millions of people.
Maybe if he hadn’t fired the NSC head of the pandemic response team, he’d have someone to pivot blame to, but he can’t, so he’s trying to shift blame to Obama. Sorry. It won’t work any more than Allan accusing Biden of lying. If this pandemic hit 3 years ago, you’d have a point, but there has been more than adequate time to replenish the stockpile and to prepare, so Trump doesn’t get the A+ he said he deserves yesterday.
“He has golfed and vacationed more in 3 years than Obama did in 8. ”
Trump probably works more in the first half of the week than Obama did in one week. Trump doesn’t sleep much and doesn’t always play full rounds. Frequently when he is done golfing he has created a new understanding with another country. Trump is a workaholic.
You are not ready to understand how the world works.
I never cease to be amazed at the depth and extent to which the Church of Trump has convinced the Disciples of Trump to ignore the truth. To most of the world, including most Americans, Trump is a bloated, lying, failed businessman with a bad comb over whose only real accomplishment was starring in “The Apprentice”. The string of bankruptcies and literally thousands of lawsuits for not paying his bills are proof of his failures, along with Trump Casinos, Trump Steaks, Trump University, Trump golf accessories, etc..
The Disciples of Trump want to believe that he is a master deal maker who is respected by other world leaders. As to deal making ability, read recent writings of David Cay Johnston who ghost-wrote the book “The Art of the Deal”. Other world leaders laugh out loud at him. He hasn’t cut any deals of note that have stuck. N. Korea continues shooting off missiles, and his threats and tariffs against China have gone nowhere. He didn’t get Mexico to pay for the wall, either, and didn’t get Russia back into the G-7. Most of what he has done was by ex parte fiat: executive orders. You also want to believe he is a self-made billionaire. He was supported by his father well into his forties, and he is hiding his tax returns and financial statements because he has lied about his wealth. Michael Cohen has testified that he keeps 2 sets of books–one for the IRS and one for Forbes, to be used to calculate his wealth ranking, so critical for his tender ego.
That he is no workaholic is proven by his actual schedules, which used to be available, but which the White House is now hiding, because they show that most of his time is listed as “executive time”, meaning no meetings or formal activities. Aides have leaked the fact that he spends “executive” time watching TV and tweeting. His extensive vacations are public record. Meanwhile, COVID-19 was brewing.
You are the one who is not ready to see the truth staring you in the face.
Natacha – still waiting on your BMI. Enquiring minds want to know!!!
Allan, your post is incoherent.
“Allan, your post is incoherent.”
It wasn’t and anyone can see for themselves. You are acting more and more like Anonymous the Stupid posting retorts that copy what someone else said to you.
To engage in a discussion on treatment options for any illness, one must have a firm understanding of human pathology in general. However to understand pathology, one has to understand normal, healthy human systems, i.e. physiology, histology, immunology, etc as well as the basic medical sciences like microbiology, pharmacology, genetics, biochemistry, and so forth
For those wishing to understand COVID-19, how the SARS-CoV-2 virus causes sickness, and how our immune system responds to pathogens therein, I suggest getting a copy of “Janeway’s Immunobiology” textbook. It is the gold standard for introductory immunology for undergraduate students, graduate and medical students. There are many videos on Youtube that review Janeway text but reading the text beforehand is essential. It is dense reading, appropriately so given the topic.
A very good textbook on Microbiology used in medical schools and graduate education is “Medical Microbiology”, 8th Edition, authors Patrick Murray, Ken Rosenthal, et al, Publisher Elsevier. Their unit on Viruses provides answers to questions many of you are asking.
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Thank for the recommendations, Estovir!
Estovir,
I am interested in your thoughts on the journal articles I included.
Thank you again for the other links and recommendations!
Estovir, et al;
If one has been on a journey of a 100 billion steps it’s very wise to stop & ask for direction when it’s obvious you’re headed in the wrong direction & then readjust your course. -Oky1
The 1st thing to do is stop these “illegal” level 3 &4 Bio weapon labs that are building this crap… Chapel Hill NC… Wuhan China.
Those bio weapons labs are already illegal in the US/world, just enforce the laws.
Lock them down & seize the evidence. Enough is already public for a legal warrant.
The CDC, NIH, HHS,WHO,UN, AMA, Big Pharma, etc.,etc., & the likes of the Rockefeller foundation have made the US healthcare system a rotten stinking mess.
Anyone can search: rockefeller plans for global govt, club of Rome plans for global govt or Alex Jones’ free documentary made over a decade ago… Endgame, Blue print for global enslavement., in which evil uses bio weapons & the promise of a safe& effective vaccines.
BTW Estovir, in the info you recommended was there even a page or 2 on food, water, vitamins, air, & the known dangers of the current vaccines etc. ?
https://banned.video/watch?id=5e84160f1ae564001ca01c18
Suspected SARS virus and flu samples found in luggage: FBI report describes China’s ‘biosecurity risk’
https://news.yahoo.com/suspected-sars-virus-and-flu-found-in-luggage-fbi-report-describes-chinas-biosecurity-risk-144526820.html
The media yesterday and today.
Diaper Man, do we still have time for the Culture Wars? What’s wrong with ‘Covid 19’? It has a scary Science Fiction sound that seems appropriate for this crisis.
Paint Chips, there is nothing wrong with Covid 19 or some of the other names. You seem to find it useful to have a lot of names don’t you?
It ‘s also from Wuhan and since diseases are frequently named after locations that is OK as well. Wuhan is in China so the China virus is appropriate as well and since China was trying to blame the US for the virus the use of China virus was accurate and prevented the blame from being transferred to the US.
You seem to have more allegience to Communist China than you do to America.
Back in January, Trump praised China for doing two things that, in hindsight, we know it has not done: 1) keep the spread of the virus under control and 2) be forthright about how many people in the country are infected.
Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
Edited from: “Everyone And Everything Trump Has Blamed For His Coronavirus Response”
Today’s Washington Post
“Back in January, Trump praised China for doing two things that, in hindsight, we know it has not done: 1) keep the spread of the virus under control and 2) be forthright about how many people in the country are infected.”
We don’t know anything as fact though I probably agree with the statements. How does one deal with another country that acts like that and has been acting like that for decades?
Trump has been advising a change in our policy towards China for decades. Trump has moved our navy in areas of the China Sea that are dicey. Trump has rebuilt the military and has made us energy secure. With a lot of difficulty from Democrats Trump has been squeezing certain countries that have alliances with China. Lastly Trump has completely changed the trade and negotiating policies with China.
Trump has been more aggressive towards China than any other President in recent history. He is not afraid of insulting them but he reserves the insults to where they can give us an edge. Take note that when China was not acting appropriately and then blamed the virus on the US Trump rightfully called the virus the China Virus. He has a unique way of handling enemies and it works.
Thank you Peter for the questions you raised.
Peter, I wrote the above response to you as an explanation of why Trump might want to talk nicely to China while thinking the opposite.
Think of your feelings when you read the post. Probably not as angry as usual.
Pretend you are a nuclear power and on the edge of nuclear war with Allan.
Which would be more likely to start a war and which would be more likely to lead to discussion?
1) How I spoke to you above
2) If I spoke to you in our usual way Paint Chips.
Do you see why he might talk nicely in public while being a tough negotiator in private in addition to demontrating hard power?
Interesting article with such things as: “Indeed, the medical equipment shortage which has so panicked health care workers from the onset of the crisis often seems to be largely logistical. In other words, a lot of the ventilators and masks are out there — just in unexpected and formerly off-limits places. With a more liberated FDA and Centers for Disease Control (CDC), there’s a whole lotta creative repurposing going on. Animal hospitals, for instance, are full of ventilators — and they are just like the kind humans use.”
Trump in the time of COVID-19: slashing red tape again like he was 39
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/trump-time-covid-19-slashing-red-tape-again-he-was-39
Nice puff piece about Dear Leader.
Back on earth one, Trump needs to create a federal ventilator bank and get the Pentagon to fly ventilators around the country to crisis spots in need since he missed the opportunity to activate the DPA in January to get whatever jump possible on production of new units. It’s too late for new production to be of use in the present. (As per one of my points to you yesterday)
Trump’s being asleep on Covid 19 has national preparedness in crisis. New Orleans will be rationing ventilator time by the end of THIS week. New York by NEXT week (although it appears Cuomo was able to wrangle some sort of deal for new ventilators in the last 24 hours and is splitting machines into two; also utilizing some vetrinary units for human use).
“Back on earth one, Trump needs to create a federal ventilator bank and get the Pentagon to fly ventilators around the country to crisis spots in need”
Sounds like you heard another soundbite. How does that differ and do better than what Trump is doing now?
“New Orleans will be rationing ventilator time by the end of THIS week. New York by NEXT week ”
Did you ever think of what NYState under governor Cuomo said when told of his ventillator problem a few years ago. First he refused to buy the ventillators and then he said if problems occurred he would ration ventillators. Is that something you would recommend?
No, Allan, the claim that Gov. Cuomo “refused to buy the ventilators” is another Fox News lie. There was some report or another that was done on possibilities for a pandemic, but there was no recommendation that NY purchase ventilators. Just more Trumpy Bear cover.
“No, Allan, the claim that Gov. Cuomo “refused to buy the ventilators” is another Fox News lie…”
People that brought you that story are liars, stupid or both. Acceptance without thinking doesn’t demonstrate much intellect to the rest of the world. Firstly NYC and environs are the main target for terrorism so NY State has to have additional equipment and manpower to handle that threat. That includes ventillators and masks in much higher proportion than other states. New York’s pandemic team evaluated the situation and notified Cuomo several years ago that the state required 16,000 more ventillators. Additionally if one looks at how many ventillators NY has it is pitifully small based on population compared to some other states in the nation. Not only that but NYC has loads of medical centers that teach students and is referred patients from out of state that frequently require additional ventillators. Compared to other states that might have more ventillators per million than NY, NY is rich and they are poor.
If you want to place blame for a lack of ventillators Andrew Cuomo’s name is on top in bold letters.
And you have quotes or tape to prove a) Cuomo speaking the words you’re attributing to him. Fox or Breitbart sources saying he spoke them don’t count because, well, they’re lying, and b) those attributed words were remotely near the context you’re taking them in?
Cuomo was a depart head federally…, department heads *never* put out quotes like what you’re attributing to him. They just don’t. Previous to the Trump administration anyway.
Alias Paulie, firstly I note you starting another debate with me when you still haven’t finished the last.
“*…never* put out quotes like what you’re attributing to him.”
Get things right when you want to discuss anything with me. I didn’t quote Cuomo.
Produce the quote then.
“Produce the quote then.”
Are you incapable of getting things right? I didn’t quote Cuomo here and I don’t remember ever quoting him. You can cite from Google searches but you don’t comprehend the written word. You can research this question all by yourself.
I know NYC very well and even during good times there is over crowding especially in the city hospitals which runs out of things. This has been a chronic problem for decades.
I see that Allan is still running his big mouth.
Day in and day out… Playing the blame game, today. He’s the world’s biggest loser.
The idiot Surgeon General again today tells people WHO says don’t wear masks. This is negligent. The WHO is incompetent for starters. Secondly droplet spread is reduced by use of masks. Simple physics and biology.
Stop the idiot Surgeon General or fire him now Trump!
https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1244814585896398848?s=20
For reasons I don’t grasp, the experts are saying wearing a mask should be for patients and medical personnel, with the emphasis on minimizing their spreading their saliva by exhaling, sneezing, etc. I understand that spreading at the source (exhales and sneeze/coughs) would be more effective than at the point of intake – the rest of us, presumably not yet infected – but surely it would have some defensive qualities, if limited. I also understand that with masks in short supply, one would try to limit them to the most effective use, but aren’t properly done cloth masks – with a replaceable paper towel between cloth layers – effective defensively?
I kind of think we’d all be better off if everyone was wearing some kind of mask, too – if only because the asymptomatic people wandering around would have one on by default.
But if people are going to wear a mask, they should probably wear eye protection too. That’s another easy point of entry for the virus.
What a mask can do other than potentially protecting the wearer is to prevent large viral loads from ending up on surfaces later touched by another individual who then touches his face before washing or using Purell on his hands. That touching very likely is the major cause of viral spread among those that maintain a distance even if they wear a mask.
book, exactly my point, elaborated
this is basic biology and physics combined
coughs spread droplets fast, droplets spread virus
create physical barriers to coughs, even if they don’t stop all droplets, must stop some
ergo, masks help, even if not n95 level quality
this is gross negligence happening and the WHO is out there touting it again today. they are bad. US surgeon general foolishly repeating it
fauci years ago was telling everyone to wear rubbers, condoms, to prvent vd, HIV, which he helped identify decades ago. he said maybe not perfect, but they help
how is this “prophylaxis” concept not the same?
You’re absolutely right, Mr. Kurtz.
“Why Wearing a Face Mask Is Encouraged in Asia, but Shunned in the U.S.”
https://time.com/5799964/coronavirus-face-mask-asia-us/
“While wearing a mask has become the norm in many places in Asia, the mask frenzy has hit nowhere as hard as Hong Kong. At the height of COVID-19 panic, residents lined up overnight outside drugstores to buy face masks. South Korea, Singapore and Japan have distributed face masks to residents. Taiwan and Thailand have banned the export of masks to meet soaring local demand.”
Fauci: White House ‘Close’ to Determining if Public Needs Masks
The World Health Organization does not recommend the general public use masks and has cited a worldwide shortage of protective equipment.
By Cecelia Smith-Schoenwalder, Staff Writer
March 31, 2020, at 1:18 p.m.
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-03-31/fauci-white-house-close-to-decision-on-public-wearing-masks-amid-coronavirus-pandemic
(Better late than never, but we’re behind the eight ball.)
Fauci 25 years ago: public should use condoms to prevent spread of HIV
Fauci now: public don’t have to use masks, you might put them on wrong, etc.
the NYT has an article about how a doctor actually got in trouble with hospital admin for wearing a mask! shocking stupidity going around, this situation becomes ever more amazing and distressing day by day
It would seem masks are critical to limiting the impact. of the virus.
Masks may not be 100% effective at preventing contact with the virus but they are effective at reducing the impact because it spreads slower and with lower exposures people get sick less sick.
After listening to the briefing, it would seem to be the case that we simply don’t have enough masks.
Alos, the task force is still considering and discussing the idea.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/not-wearing-masks-protect-against-coronavirus-big-mistake-top-chinese-scientist-says
“The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.”
Again, this speaks to controlling “offense” (spewing viral droplets) but not “defense” (resisting the wearer inhaling them). What is the story on the latter for those of us confident we are not carriers – I just did 14 days of self quarantining?
What is the story on the latter for those of us confident we are not carriers
_________________________________________
Your confidence may be misplaced.
It generally takes 2-14 days after contact for you to test positive (virus detectable in nose swab) After that usually 2 weeks until test is negative again. Also, if you are receiving mail and other deliveries that could be a means of contacting the virus.
Jinn, I hung out with a friend one day who later was informed he had been medically treated a week prior by someone who not only tested positive, but had become sick from the virus. From the day I saw him, we (with my wife) did 14 days of self-quarantining from which, now 4 days later, I have only broken briefly and reasonably safely. My friend also self quarantined and he never showed symptoms. Due to a lack of tests, he never received one,
According to a study in the Annals of Internal Medicine, symptoms from the corona virus show up in the majority of those who will become ill within 5 days and by 11 days, over 97% of those who will be come ill. According to my regular doc, 14 days was sufficient for that one possible exposure and neither I or my wife have had close contact with anyone else since then
You’re correct on mail, and we do wipe it down. So far we have had groceries delivered and we wipe those down too.
According to my regular doc, 14 days was sufficient for that one possible exposure
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Yes if you want to look only at the odds you probably aren’t contagious.
The idea behind the general population wearing masks is that it prevents people who have the virus from spreading it.
It is pretty obvious that countries where everyone is wearing a cloth mask in public are also the countries that
are successful in limiting the spread. The problem for the countries that are not wearing masks is that it socially unacceptable to wear a mask. If you wear a mask it helps encourage others to do likewise. If you don’t you are helping encouraging carriers to transmit the disease.
There is no need for extravagant medical respirator masks. A simple piece of cotton cloth over the mouth and nose will trap the droplets coming out of the mouth and nose that carry the virus.
The tiny droplets that pass through the mask aren’t
a problem because the virus is only viable in larger droplets. That is why standing 6 ft apart prevents infection. The droplets that carry the virus are large enough to fall out of the air very quickly and land on surfaces around the person spewing them out. The virus can live on the surfaces for hours to days.
Masks don’t do much to protect the person wearing them
because in general there are not viruses floating around in
the air (if you stay 6 ft away).
jinn – they are now saying that the virus travels up to 27 feet, A mask is important.
jinn – they are now saying that the virus travels up to 27 feet, A mask is important.
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Sure I knew a guy in high school who could spit 27 feet.
Originally they were saying 3 feet (1 meter) was far enough to keep the virus from spreading but obviously people who are coughing will spew droplets farther than that.
A mask does not usually protect the wearer unless the wearer is a health care worker who has to be close to people who are infected. Very few virus particles exist in the air if you are 6 feet away and getting exposed to very few virus particles means you are unlikely to get a serious case.
Also if atmospheric conditions are just right (100% humidity like smog or fog) the virus can exist in the air for longer and travel farther than usual. But the evidence suggests usually the droplets that carry the virus do not float around they fall pretty quickly and droplets small enough to float around do not support the virus.
The fact that you can’t get around is the countries that everybody puts on a mask in public are doing far better that the countries that people are walking around with no masks. In the next few weeks that fact will become obvious.
Clearly that is the case and I suspect the motivation for discouraging people to use them.
And yet, I feel they are miseducating the general population, which should be encouraged to wear barriers to droplet spread, if only scarves!
https://www.wired.com/story/its-time-to-face-facts-america-masks-work/
IMHO, something is better than nothing. I read somewhere that if you could get vacuum cleaner bags that are HEPA-filter rated and cut out part of them and make it into a mask or use it with a home made mask or otherwise could secure it over your mouth and nose, this would filter out COVID-19. Makes sense to me, although I don’t know how hard it would be to breathe using this.
One other thing: if you think you might be getting sick with COVID-19, consider taking Beta 1,3,d Glucan. A scientist friend of mine claims it is effective. You can find it online or at health food stores.
whatever reduces spewing and inhaling droplet spreads, the little motes of dust in the air which may be coated, can help the odds, slow the spread. dont let the perfect be the enemy of the good!
I like this Kurtz better.
ditto
Czechs: smart!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/czechs-get-to-work-making-masks-after-government-decree-coronavirus
” this would filter out COVID-19.”
Virus particles are so small that if airborne they will come through any mask not made to protect from viral particles. Masks worn by an individual keeps their sneezes and coughs in. Masks worn by others prevents larger droplets from enterring and stops people from touching their face.
Had the Stockpile not been depleted and left unreplenished under previous administrations there may have been enough to provide healthcare professionals. If it were up to me I wouldn’t make it mandatory but I would encourage people to wear bandanas or masks if available when close contact might exist.
Purell and handwash.
The stockpile was not depleted under previous administrations. One facet of it was left unreplenished under 2 admdinistrations and a failure of a bi-partisan Congress to increase funding.
You are a partisan nut case. I blame all administrations and all parties. I even will blame Trump where he is responsible. However, St. obama was not the Saint some would like to think he was and Socialism isn’t nirvana. The blame has to be apportioned to more than one person but Obama has earned the majority of the blame.
Allan hallucinates and verbalizes his inner monologue out loud.
As I said, you are a partisan nut case.
About 20% of the comments belong to the blabber-mouth “Allan.”
…And on the lasts page I checked 36 comments were by Anonymous where only a small handful weren’t yours.
Your comments add nothing. They are complaining about how many comments another poster writes. The other posters writes about the subject of the day. If you don’t like those postings don’t read them.
I find posting a nice interlude between the things I have to do on the computer.
“I find posting a nice interlude between the things I have to do on the computer.”
lol
No one’s buying it, buddy.
87 comments by Allaninny
At what point are you going to charge him rent?
OLLY – Allan is living rent free 😉
“OLLY – Allan is living rent free 😉”
PCS, how did you know? Will you provide me free room and board at your house? 🙂
OLLY and Paulie — two of the three stooges — weigh in…
You are on your own if you seek rent from Allan. Perhaps you can retain Marky Mark, he appears to be working pro bono and your loser case would be well within his skillset.
hey guys look at this! that fellow who supposedly drank the fish tank cleaner becaue of covid? perhaps he was poisoned by his evil wife
Guess what? he was a victim of spousal abuse
https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1245408964319367169/photo/1
Thought that right away. She saw an opportunity…, “here honey, the president said this would protect you, knock this down.”
Trump is just an unwitting accomplice. Hey, I’m noticing a theme.
” this would filter out COVID-19.”
Virus particles are so small that if airborne they will come through any mask not made to protect from viral particles.
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Allan you are mentally retarded and your brain has been severely damaged by libertarian propaganda.
The point of wearing masks is not to protect the person wearing the mask it is to protect everyone else. This is a concept that is so foreign to the brain damaged people it will not ever penetrate libertarians thick skulls and thus wherever the libertarians live people will die necessarily.
He’s known as “Allan the Idiot” around these parts.
…And here he is Anonymous the Stupid. I guess Pepe got you out of the bathroom before I did. That was Pepe’s one good deed for the day.
Pepe, what can I say? You are an idiot.
When dealing with airborne disease the mask is worn to protect the individual who wears the mask. When the surgeon is operating it is generally to protect the patient. Masks are used for both reasons but I understand your problem. You have half a brain so you are only half right.
Go talk to Anonymous the Stupid. The two of you would get along. You sound like him.
Oh now, Chuck Todd is just vying to be president of The Ministry of Truth! Undoubtedly, Chuck is in the top five for that position.
Cop on, America.!!
The world is laughing at your Liar and your Psycho, that you put in the White House.
Suppose Nixon, or a Democratic President was this mentally ill, what would you do.?
Is that you Chuck?
You could at least try, to put together a coherent paragraph with some meaning.
Maybe tend to your own insane people ???
Suppose a manager at a convenience store responded to Covid 19 the same way as Sir Floptop?
Most likely it would lead to being duct taped in the walk in freezer, getting one eyebrow shaved and nails painted with pink nail polish while being forced to inhale the nitrous from all the whipped cream cans in the store.
But no…, you all just let him stay in White House, getting on twitter and disgracing himself while a pandemic sweeps the country .and thrives Ho hum…, business as usual. S’all good!!
https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/30/rachel-maddow-calls-the-timely-arrival-of-navy-hospital-ships-nonsense/
Gainesville and Natacha fancy this woman is perspicacious. LOL.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/386599.php
Did you catch this? The usual suspects here of course blamed the President for the conduct of this pair. If you posit this report is accurate, you have to wonder if she manipulated him into killing himself.
Of course not. Why would I have caught such elitist trash?
Going by what Chuck Todd’s said on his show and what other NBC anchors say about Republicans on the air, I somehow thought that’s what NBC hired them to say.