“How Hard Can It Be?”: Ohio Democratic Representative Pledges To File Referral For Charges Of Crimes Against Humanity By Trump

Ohio House of Representatives

Ohio state Rep. Tavia Galonski (D) continues to garner extensive national coverage over her pledge to file a referral with the Hague for charges of crimes against humanity by President Donald Trump over his handling of the pandemic. Yesterday, she reaffirmed with NBC News that she would be making a referral “tomorrow.” Galonski is specifically citing Trump’s promotion of the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine as a treatment despite the absence of conclusive studies on its benefits. While Galonski originally said that she had “no idea” how to file such a referral, she has asked “how hard can it be?” The answer is extremely hard if you have, as here, an entirely frivolous basis for a referral.

Galonski caused a stir on Sunday by tweeting “I can’t take it anymore. I’ve been to The Hague. I’m making a referral for crimes against humanity tomorrow. Today’s press conference was the last straw. I know the need for a prosecution referral when I see one.”

Galonski is a lawyer with a J.D. the University of Akron School of Law and a B.A. from Emory University. She is also a former magistrate in the Summit Count Common Pleas Court.

The problem with the referral is that it does not involve any cognizable crime against humanity. Trump has admitted that the drug is not fully tested and vetted. He also has said that he is not a doctor and any decision to prescribe the drug would rest with doctors. However, Galonski is certainly correct that Trump has been almost obsessional in his raising of the drug and the need to get it to patients. Many disagree with the promotion based on the lack of clinical testing but it is not a crime of any kind let alone a crime against humanity. If it were, every politician in every country could be dragged into the Hague.

The International Criminal Court prosecutes individuals for such crimes as genocide, war crimes as well as crimes against humanity. The latter category at Nuremburg was defined as:

“Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population, before or during the war, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated.

The past charges of crimes against humanity refer to a much different type of act in both magnitude and motive. It is not advocating for a medical treatment that a president believes might save thousands of people.

The ICC itself states that

“can prosecute crimes against humanity, which are serious violations committed as part of a large-scale attack against any civilian population. The 15 forms of crimes against humanity listed in the Rome Statute include offences such as murder, rape, imprisonment, enforced disappearances, enslavement – particularly of women and children, sexual slavery, torture, apartheid and deportation.”

Anyone can referral a complaint to the Office of the Prosecutor or that office can start an investigation on its own authority. However, the office must “determine whether there is sufficient evidence of crimes of sufficient gravity falling within the ICC’s jurisdiction, whether there are genuine national proceedings, and whether opening an investigation would serve the interests of justice and of the victims.” Absent such a finding, a case cannot proceed.

The ICC remains a matter of great controversy. Many opposed it in the United States as usurping the authority of domestic courts and constitutional standards. Specifically, some suggested that the ICC could be used to criminalize policy disagreements — precisely what Galonski would be doing with this referral.

Despite the extensive coverage, the changes of Trump being charged with Crimes Against Humanity in the Hague are about as likely as his being awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine in Stockholm.

171 thoughts on ““How Hard Can It Be?”: Ohio Democratic Representative Pledges To File Referral For Charges Of Crimes Against Humanity By Trump”

  1. Jonathan,

    On March 19, President Trump announced that the FDA was fast-tracking use of hydroxy chloroquine and other anti-viral drugs for COVID-19 patients. Not review, but use.

    Big news story? Talking heads elated? Nope, crickets. He might as well have thrown a handful of dog poop over the White House fence into the pool of reporters; the stories would have been much the same.

    Even more to the point, On Feb. 17, it was reported that Chinese scientists had announced several drugs commonly used to treat malaria were effective against the coronavirus.

    So even in the early stages of the news-driven hysteria, a cure was known, but not news. “Talkingheadville” was, instead, obsessed with how the coronavirus outbreak would affect President Trump’s 2020 reelection prospects.

    Wuhan, China, has dead bats as a delicacy, but America’s big media conglomerates prefer Project Mockingbird as their main diet. Big media, still CIA puppets after all these years. “And that’s the way it is,” just as “Uncle” Walter Cronkite told us every evening generations ago.

    The elites’ war against Christianity, American history, and marriage and family didn’t start with Uncle Walt’s nightly news broadcasts, nor has it ended in our day. President Truman was right to regret his creation of the Central Intelligence Agency out of the ashes of the wartime Office of Strategic Services, run in concert with the United Kingdom during World War II. Giving any group of people special powers, along with the ability to hide the effect of their use of those powers, is a recipe for the creation of a totalitarian nation.

    America is such a nation, which has been cleverly disguised as a two-party democracy. Instead it is run by self-imagined elites who think the school they graduated from and the underground clubs they belong to qualify them to run the world. In 2016 that unelected order was challenged by the election of President Donald Trump.

    Even before Trump was elected, the FBI and intelligence agencies were running “insurance policy” actions against him and his campaign. In any other nation on earth, this entire group would have been rooted out and stood before a firing squad within a few days after Trump took office.

    Instead, these traitors have escalated their efforts to end Trump’s presidency. Having failed in impeachment – their last ditch effort – fate (or was it collusion?) handed them one more opportunity.

    That opportunity was the coronavirus, which spread from Wuhan, China (home of a Chinese biological research weapons lab), and from there across much of the world.

    Big media in America have revealed its continuing Mockingbird CIA ties by hyping the virus as the next end-of-the-world scenario. Politically, these attacks were very agreeable to big media because they echoed Democratic attacks against Trump in his successful efforts to strengthen America’s economy.

    Nor was it lost on big media that the longer the attacks went on, the more the president they despised would be weakened heading into the 2020 election.

    There is, however, another group of people who despise President Trump’s America First agenda: The Chinese Communist Party. This hierarchy, which has lost their sweetheart trade deals that shipped American jobs to China, is far less than happy at the result of American jobs coming home.

    Sure it cost the Chinese Communists money to pay off individual Democrats – or perhaps their kids – for this exodus of American manufacturing jobs sent to China, but it didn’t cost them nearly as much as Trump’s tariffs on Chinese goods coming into America.

    We should all wonder at this point: Were the Democrats desperate enough over their prospects in the 2020 election that they were willing accomplices with the Chinese Communist Party against America, our president, and our economy? Do today’s desperate Democrats hate America enough to go there? Was a pandemic conveniently engineered in a very secretive nation, then “accidentally” released to facilitate their return to power in America?

    Right now it’s only a question. But it’s a question that has to be asked. Remember, it was during Bill Clinton’s presidency that America sold missile technology to the Chinese that vastly shortened their path to ICBMs, via Loral Corporation. Having succeeded then, why wouldn’t they try again?

    1. It’s actually not an engineered virus, it’s a naturally occurring event. That’s been established by genome research.

      And Trump had his ties manufactured in China.

      In fact, since once being a democrat, he’s largely proven he has no ideology at all other than engaging in the world through the lens of profit, which of course makes him even more susceptible to insider elites of the financial persuasion than even an ordinary politician, this all runs directly against your narrative…

      However what you’ve come up with is a fascinating plot line, just the type of stuff I like to read and watch.

      1. However what you’ve come up with is a fascinating plot line, just the type of stuff I like to read and watch.
        Its about as fascinating as the story of Russia collusion

        Biden gets elected and we spend the next 4 years with investigations and impeachment hearings swirling around the plot of China collusion got Biden elected.

      2. “It’s actually not an engineered virus, it’s a naturally occurring event. That’s been established by genome research.

        And Trump had his ties manufactured in China.”

        This is actually funny and sounds like part of a skit to be played for the inmates in one of our fancy mental hospitals.

    2. “Do today’s desperate Democrats hate America enough to go there? ”

      Many do. Their hate has clouded their ability to think.

  2. Jonathan: Some of your readers don’t believe Donald Trump has a conflict of interest in promoting the antimalaria drug hydroxycholoroquine as a possible “game changer” in the fight against COVID-19. They apparently believe his motives are altruistic. Their gullibility is breathtaking. Anyone who says otherwise is “clueless”, “moronic”, a “Marxist-democrat voter” or is “spewing lies”.

    While Trump’s investment in Sanofi holdings is small (less than $3,000) it’s not in a blind trust that would prevent even the appearance of impropriety. If Trump got the FDA to approve Sanofi’s drug the value of Trump’s investment could go up significantly. Trump’s close associates, like Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, have also invested in Sanofi. Even Rudy Giuliani, never shy by his lack of any medical expertise, has climbed on board saying bizarrely that hydroxychorooquine is “100% effective”. . Drug companies have long sought influence with the Trump administration to promote their drugs. In 2018 Novartis paid Michael Cohen, Trump’s former personal attorney, $1.2 for access to Trump. Not chump change! So your readers would be naive to believe self-interest is not involved..In addition, we have the quacks and pseudoscientists who are also promoting the drug on FoxNews–no doubt influencing some of Trump’s thinking on the subject. Then last month Job Creators Network, a conservative dark money non-profit, launched a petition drive to call on Trump to make hydroxychoroquine available to COVID-19 patients. So Trump now wants to “test” hydroxychoroquine on patients in Detroit where 80% of the population is Black and represent a majority of COVID-19 patients. The racist use of Blacks as guinea pigs for medical experiments has a long and sordid history in the US!

    Why all the hoopla by Trump for a drug that has not proven effective in treating COVID-19? Because Trump has a disdain for public-health expertise. He also needs a “magic bullet” because he understands that if the economy is still in the tank in November his chances for re-election are slim. He will be blamed for everything. So money and politics “trumps” the public’s health and safety!

    1. “While Trump’s investment in Sanofi holdings is small (less than $3,000) it’s not in a blind trust that would prevent even the appearance of impropriety. If Trump got the FDA to approve Sanofi’s drug the value of Trump’s investment could go up significantly”

      Let’s say Sanofi went up 10 times. That would provide Trump with less than $30,000. The drug has been around forever and approved in 1955. Don’t you think competition would keep the price down? You do realize that the drug is sold under numerous names, right?

      1. “Let’s say Sanofi went up 10 times. That would provide Trump with less than $30,000…”

        Trump doesn’t think like this. Any money in he sees as good, money out, when he can’t see a benefit through the lens of profit, is bad to his way of thinking.

        Exactly why he rails on to the other NATO countries about their contributions. He doesn’t recognize the benefit to America because it’s not written in strictly financial terms. He’s blind to the security benefits because they can’t be written in dollars and cents…

        It’s also why he ditched the Pandemic Response Team…, he thought it was wasted money. Then look what happened.

        Trump’s financial bottom line philosophy is crucial in real estate dealings, and he’s a master at it (as long as he’s in the realm on licensing and not development so much).

        However, in governance, it makes him quite blind.

        1. “Trump doesn’t think like this. Any money in he sees as good, money out, when he can’t see a benefit through the lens of profit, is bad to his way of thinking.”

          You are a lunatic. If Trump thought the way you think he does, he wouldn’t be bothering with a profit of $30,000 (more likely well below $6,000). We know know how you think and realize why one should never do business with you.

        2. Elvis: The official motto of Republicans could be, “Penny Wise, Dollar Foolish”. And Trump, more than any Republican embodies that principle.

    2. Dennis don’t you understand numbers. A billionaire — even one at the bottom of that ladder– carries that much in his wallet. he notion that he can pump it up with false hope is preposterous. no actually the drugs are being used experimentally and they are promising. the information is out there but feel free to continue misunderstanding this if it makes you feel happy

      1. Trump wasn’t a billionaire when he entered office, Kurtz. He had money yes. Certainly enough to pay a settlement on the Trump University con. But there’s a couple of reasons he refuses to give up tax returns.

        1. “Trump wasn’t a billionaire when he entered office”

          That is a conclusion that you are providing as fact. Prove it.

          That is your problem. Your conclusions are dependent on your fantasies not fact.

    3. Dennis McIntyre – JP Morgan is handling the Trump Trust and this is part of it. The Donald has no say.
      As for testing in Detroit: It seems to have worked in NYC, Detroit is a hot spot. Is the drug not good enough for blacks? I ask you Dennis? Hmmmm?????

  3. The more Democrats attack Trump on such TDS accusations, the more they discredit their party.

  4. Oh for God’s sake. We are in the middle of a global pandemic still picking up steam, and she thinks now is a good time to bog our President down with another frivolous lawsuit? She either lacks good judgement or engages in dirty politics, putting her own advancement above a pandemic.

    When people get this partisan and deranged, it’s cringeworthy.

  5. Tavia Galonski would just as likely had filed a lawsuit against the family of Anne Frank for trespassing and lost rent. Is there any evidence this enemy of the state ever contemplated filing this against the Chinese government?

  6. America is in a condition of hysteria, incoherence, chaos, anarchy and rebellion.

    President Abraham Lincoln seized power, neutralized the legislative and judicial branches and ruled by executive order and proclamation to “Save the Union.”

    President Donald Trump must now seize power, neutralize the legislative and judicial branches and rule by executive order and proclamation to “Save the Republic.”

  7. Jonathan sonner or later you are going to have to choose a side. I hope you choose ours. You are to intelligent to stay with these crazy dem’s. So please come over to the right side. At least till they get someone with enough sense to compete a sentence
    And make sense. I love to read your post

    1. This woman is an embarrassment to liberalism and to Ohio. But then Donald Trump is an embarrassment to the conservatism and this country. You want Democrats to get “someone with enough sense to compete (SIC) a sentence And make sense.” Why do you not demand the same standard for the occupant of the White House? By the way, there are plenty of Democrats who are exceptionally skilled at uttering complete sentences and making sense when they do so. You are just too damn ideologically prejudiced to acknowledge this fact.

      1. You mean like senile Joe Biden, Crazy Bernie, Pencil Neck Schiff, Liz “Pocahontas” Warren, or the ever hateful, delusional Nancy Pelosi?

  8. Trump’s touting of an untested and unproven drug for treatment of COVID-19 is not a “policy disagreement”–it is a dangerous recommendation made solely for political reasons–to try to goose the economy. Trump has no medical credentials, but he called Hydroxychloroquine a “game changer”. The minor qualifications –i.e., we don’t know if it work, it’s not fully tested or vetted, are vastly overshadowed by his obsessive praise of the drug, even asking rhetorically: “what do you have to lose”? Perhaps your life.

    Three cardiology-related medical groups yesterday issued statements pointing out that Hydroxychloroquine is known to cause heart arrhythmias, which can be fatal. To date, with malaria, rheumatoid arthritis and lupus patients, the risk has been low, but COVID-19 can infect the heart muscle itself, which could magnify the risk. There really can’t be any informed consent for this off-label use because the full scope of risks aren’t known even by medical professionals, and won’t be known until there are valid studies. You can’t agree to undertake a risk you didn’t know about.

    Medical treatment should be driven by controlled scientific studies of safety and efficacy, not politics. Trump’s touting of this drug was not done for altruistic reasons, but for political reasons, plus he owns stock in a company that sells a generic version of Hydroxychloroquine. This has caused a shortage, so patients with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis can’t get prescriptions filled and the drug is on indefinite back-order, all of which harms people because rheumatologists have to scramble to come up with alternative treatments to ease their patients’ suffering.

    Trump’s conduct is immoral, but Turley won’t even admit this. Instead, he goes overboard to criticize the representative from Ohio. I don’t know whether the promotion of an untested and unproven prescription remedy by someone who isn’t qualified falls under the rubric of crimes against humanity, but it is certainly immoral, if not illegal. The main reason he keeps doubling down is because he cannot admit he didn’t know what he was talking about. His narcissism prevents him from appreciating the possible harm he is doing to COVID-19 victims and actual harm to people with RA and lupus.

    1. Oh, just shut up already. Trump has never at anytime prescribed any drug to any person for any condition. He has plainly stated that he is not a doctor. He has been equally plain that Hydroxychloroquine (thanks for typing it, so I could copy pasta instead of trying to spell it myself) appears to be a promising treatment, but that the decision to prescribe and take it resides solely between a physician and a patient

      My God, I can’t understand how an entire swath of the population is so idiotic, yet still figures out how to type stuff into the Google box.

      1. Why mention this drug by name at all? He could have said: “there are researchers who are testing an existing medication plus combinations of existing medications that we hope hold some promise for treating COVID-19, and we are keeping our fingers crossed that research proves it is safe and effective.” THAT sort of comment would be truthful and appropriate. As to vaccines, he could have said: “researchers are working towards a vaccine to prevent COVID-19, and we hope they can arrive at a safe and effective vaccine as soon as possible, but it will take at least a year”. Those statements could then have segued into recommendations for closing businesses and schools, wearing face masks, social distancing and hand washing. Instead he said there would be a vaccine “very quickly”, a statement Dr. Fauci had to immediately correct.

        Giving false hope to victims of COVID-19 for political reasons is just immoral. His qualifying statements are vastly overshadowed by his praise and recommendation that people take the drug. The only studies on Hydroxychloroquine had samples that were too small and not diverse, so the results are not considered valid. The one in France, that Trump says shows success, had no control group, all victims were from the same area, and 6 patients withdrew before the study was completed. For these reasons, it has been criticized by peer review groups. The other small study, done in China, showed no significant difference between those receiving no antimicrobial chemotherapy and those receiving Hydroxychloroquine alone or with Azithromycin.

        Leave the drug for those with RA, lupus and malaria, for which it has been tested and approved.

        1. From past experience, I know better than to waste keystrokes on you. But I just clocked out of my last Zoom meeting of the day and need something to do.

          Why not mention the name? His statements are exactly represented in your “truthful and acceptable” announcement, except he replaced “an existing medication” with hydroywhatever. You really need to ask China, the democrats, and the media (but I repeat myself) for newer bullet points. Let’s ask Gov. Cuomo how false the hope is? The first study from France included a very small sample, but the second included 6x as many. New York City is providing yet another study, numbering in the thousands. Provide me a Trump quote where he said, “people should absolutely take this drug, regardless of what their doctor says. and I’ll eat my hat.

          Your disingenuous “blah blah vaccine” proviso is exactly what he has been saying—except you can’t hear it over all the echoes. Perhaps if you watched one of the daily briefings for yourself, instead of accepting the sound clips from the media, you’d know that your complaints are as unfounded as a Russia collusion hoax theory. Oh, wait…media can’t stand showing the President’s portion of the briefing so you’re very unlikely to hear him in real time. Try C-Span or use your Google Machine to watch the streaming version, if you’re not too much of a nitwit to figure out how.

          1. Dave I have listened to at least 6 of the most recent briefings from the start as I exercised, as well as many of the earlier ones. CNN and MSNBC are showing them, though I’m not sure why. Trump spends the 1st half hour praising himself and his administration, some of the governors while calling out those he thinks don’t show appropriate appreciation to him. He constantly pumps sunshine, from “we have it under control and it’s almost over” (in early March), “we have it under control and we’ll be done by Easter” (mid-March), “we’re doing a great job and if only 100,000 die we’ll have won (now). Throughout he’s looked for someone to push the blame to (Obama, China, governors, doctors and nurses stealing equipment) and as his BS timelines have fallen apart, the miracle drug which in his mind will bail him out.

            A country hoping he would rise to the occasion – who doesn’t want us to get past this – gave him hopeful higher approval numbers, but they’re back down below 50% – pretty bad for someone who has this setup to be a leader – because everyone can see he’s still a self-serving liar. Everyone can see that.

            1. I have never once heard him say anything remotely close to that. I have heard him say he hopes it will be a limited-consequences event (Feb-early March), he hopes we can open the country back up by Easter (mid-March), and that he hopes Hydoxyblah is as effective as it appears to be. I have recognized that any timelines he presents are aspirational and not prescriptive.I have heard him say that he “wants” to reopen the country by xyz, but never that he “will.”

              Further, I have heard reporters try to shout down the POTUS, ask idiotic questions, preface their idiotic questions with editorializations, and generally behave like a 7th grade math class where the boys are trying to out-fart each other and the girls are wondering “Why, oh why, didn’t Johnny leave a note in my locker this morning–I bet he doesn’t *LOVE* me anymore.”

              Please name any other President (or major world leader, for that matter) who has had to put up with an endless, mindless, and wholly-predictable barrage of hatred, spite, and unadulterated venom during a epic confrontation—FROM WITHIN HIS OWN COUNTRY?

              No, I don’t like being lied to. I abhor it. That’s why I take such umbrage towards Natacha and Seth Warner in general, and this specific post of yours (I very often tend to agree with the bulk of your comments) in particular. No, I don’t particularly care for Trump’s showmanship. But I recognize it for what it has evolved into: a simple and eminently effective means to separate the journalistic wheat and chaff. Small minds will focus on his parenthetical meanderings. Others will consider the paragraphical context. I have never considered you in the former. Please don’t burst my bubble by telling me that you think “approval polls” are worth anything more valuable than a bucket of cold spit.

            2. “Dave I have listened to at least 6 of the most recent briefings from the start as I exercised”

              Obviously oxygen being pumped to the muscles left too little for the brain.

        2. Natasha, you keep getting more bad hash in your ObamaBong… find that safe place… relax. 5 more years of Trump is good for you, well, at least good for your Mama putting a roof over your head.

        3. Natacha:

          “Why mention this drug by name at all?” Because he’s at a press conference intended to give the US the latest information.

    2. Do you know the dosage that causes heart issues compared to the dosage being used to treat COVID 19? I didn’t think so! You are parroting propaganda pushed by the foolish liberals. How many people have died from heart issues, that have been treated for COVID 19 by hydroxy? None as far as I know and there is ample evidence that it saves lives and is pretty much 100% effective. I find it disgusting when Orange Man bad people push a narrative that is factually incorrect, simply because they are a hater. My hope is that when all is said and done and hydroxy has cured thousands, that investigations be started looking into everybody that negatively impacted hydroxy’s release as a treatment. The investigations should focus on factual evidence presented by naysayers vs. hearsay, with the intention of finding those who are complicit in manslaughter. Don’t open your mouth if you don’t know what you are talking about. Sadly haters gotta hate! I dumped the party in 2016 because of people like you.

    3. Michael Cohen accepted over $1m, from the company for favorable treatment by Trump. Trump is also invested in the company. So, it goes back to all of Trump’s decisions: how does he personally benefit $$$$

      1. Errr, $29.16 at most…. Not even worth is time to think about it…

        you keep getting more bad hash in your ObamaBong… find that safe place… relax. 5 more years of Trump is good for you, well, at least good for your Mama putting a roof over your head.

    4. I believe my Doctor of nameless political hacks and leftist doctors with an agenda to fill. My doctor is 100% in on Hydroxychloroquine with Azithromycin. Both are proven medications with Hydroxychloroquine being around since the 1950 with proven results. Your hate for Trump keeps your from rational discourse.

    5. Natasha, clearly you have never worked in medicine before. If you had, you would understand medical doctors have prescribed “off label” for decades. My favorite recent being 100 mg sildenafil. It is a fraction of the cost of the blue pill for E.D.

      How about Botox for smoothing the skin on aging people? Did you know it was developed and prescribed for migraine headaches ?

      BTW, do you still wear your pink vag!na hat while you scream at the sky ?

    6. Natacha:

      Get a grip. President Trump remarked that the FDA was looking into hydroxychloroquine as a possible therapy, and that he hoped it worked out. He also Tweeted the drugs “have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine.”There is nothing wrong with that. There are still panic runs on TP. Leaders around the world are trying to urge calm. Yeah, they have a chance. That’s why they are in trials and 2 have been approved for treating Covid-19 patients.

      The FDA approved it to treat Covid-19, and it is currently undergoing trials. There are around 10 drugs in the pipeline for human testing on Covid-19 patients.

      Who wouldn’t hope any one of them work? These are in trials. Data is generating on how they do as treatment protocols, and any downsides. Covid-19 patients can be fragile, after all. The results will be what they will be, regardless of how many millions of us, including Donald Trump, hope they work.

      A doctor writes the prescription for treatment, not President Trump. His remarks have nothing to do with the trial itself, or the doctors writing script.

      We are in the middle of a pandemic burning up around the globe. Everyone is discussing Remdesivir and Hydroxychloroquine, et al. Unless you hate humanity, you hope one or any number of them work.

      For God’s sake, the man can’t hope treatment protocols work out now without partisans jumping on him? How low do you have to be to root for drugs not to work in a pandemic? Just stop.

      And just about everyone who has a 401K has stock in a pharmaceutical company that makes any of the drugs under consideration for Covid-19 treatment. Just stop. It’s like you’re rooting for the pandemic to win just to oppose Trump.

      1. Chloroquine has been around since the 1600s. It comes from a bark extract used by the natives of Peru, Bolivia and Ecuador at the time for malaria. It was synthesized by a researcher working for Bayer in the 1930s. That malaria, RA and Lupus patients have been prescribed the drug for decades speaks to it being used safely and successfully. Whether it has proven efficacy for COVID-19 is debatable and being investigated. Many drugs are given to patients with diagnosis that are bleak, that have no data to support the use of said drugs, but are offered because it is believed it may have some benefit. HIV “treatments” began that way in the 1980s. Many cancer drugs are used this way….many.

        However if someone who has severe COVID illness wants the drug, and the physician agrees, then liberals would state that it is a “difficult and private discussion….a matter of choice”

        unless if now they are pro-life evangelicals and value life from conception to natural death…which of course they do not

        For all of their kvetching about lying, hypocrisy, fake news…you see where this is going. For them COVID is another Russian collusion, emollients, etc opportunity

    7. every off label use is “unproven” that is precisely why they are called off label

      the thorough testing of drugs for new therapies which is properly required by the FDA takes months or years to verify.

      such regimes do not mean that a new experimental use is actually ineffective until a bureaucrat says so–
      it just means marketing can’t be done on that purpose by the company

      off label uses are well known, Natacha is dishonest.

      so too are promising experimental therapies for novel emergent viruses which DONT WAIT ON THE FDA TO KILL

      the fact is if the experimental therapy in question is effective, we would be fools to wait to recommend it

      it is between “a DOCTOR AND HER PATIENT” to try this or not

      how many times have we heard that one huh? just doesnt apply now I guess

      moreover it’s precisely how things are proven, that new tests are set up with real patients. this is underway in Detroit and possibly other locations. In New York City is is being used and tested in combination with other therapies, to try and save lives.

      Quit lying Natacha, very dishonest as well as customarily annoying

  9. Pennsylvania Seeking Medical Supplies From Hospital Driven Into Financial Ruin by Venture Linked to Biden’s Brother

    James Jill Joe James, Jill, and Joe Biden / Getty Images
    Alana Goodman – APRIL 9, 2020 5:00 AM

    Pennsylvania officials are seeking access to critical medical supplies and equipment from an abandoned rural hospital at the center of a fraud scandal involving Joe Biden’s brother, James Biden.

    continued: https://freebeacon.com/2020-election/pennsylvania-seeking-medical-supplies-from-hospital-driven-into-financial-ruin-by-venture-linked-to-bidens-brother/

    1. But of course!! And didn’t Hunter do some “consulting” for China as well thanks to Daddy?

  10. “You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”

    – Rahm Emanuel, Clinton Political Adviser, Obama Chief of Staff

    If you’re a communist, you never let a crisis go to waste and you make one up if you have to.

    The “elephant in the room” consists of China and its communist (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats) allies in America which have deliberately perpetrated a biological “first strike” attack and “fake” panic on America sufficient to destroy America’s economy and cause the completion of the full imposition of the principles communism in America. China and its communist allies in Ameirca committed crimes against humanity for the purpose of imposing communism. World War III came and went, obscured by the communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats), before free Americans knew.

    The United Socialists of America (USA) just spent $2.2 trillion on the CARES Act with current national debt of $25.3 trillion in response to the “Pandemic Panic” which was created by the “COVID-19 Hoax.” More and evermore welfare for the unconstitutional American-welfare-state-cum-communist-dictatorship. “Wuhan Flu” deaths would have occurred whether the American economy was destroyed or not.

    Fun Fact: Sweden didn’t fall for the “Pandemic Panic, Hoax & Melodrama” after China released its biological weapon.

    Has Sweden Found the Right Solution to the Coronavirus?
    By John Fund & Joel Hay April 6, 2020 6:30 AM

    “Unlike other countries, it has so far avoided both isolation and economic ruin.
    If the COVID-19 pandemic tails off in a few weeks, months before the “ALARMISTS” claim it will, they will probably pivot immediately and pat themselves on the back for the brilliant social-distancing controls that they imposed on the world. They will claim that their heroic recommendations averted total calamity.
    “Unfortunately, they will be wrong; and Sweden, which has done almost no mandated social distancing, will probably prove them wrong.
    “Lots of people are rushing to discredit Sweden’s approach, which relies more on calibrated precautions and isolating only the most vulnerable than on imposing a full lockdown. While gatherings of more than 50 people are prohibited and high schools and colleges are closed, Sweden has kept its borders open as well as its preschools, grade schools, bars, restaurants, parks, and shops.
    “President Trump has no use for Sweden’s nuanced approach. Last Wednesday, he smeared it in a spectacular fashion by saying he’d heard that Sweden “gave it a shot, and they saw things that were really frightening, and they went immediately to shutting down the country.” He and the public-health experts who told him this were wrong on both counts and would do better to question their approach. Johan Giesecke, Sweden’s former chief epidemiologist and now adviser to the Swedish Health Agency, says that other nations “have taken political, unconsidered actions” that are not justified by the facts.
    “In the rush to lock down nations and, as a result, crater their economies, no one has addressed this simple yet critical question: How do we know social-isolation controls actually work? And even if they do work for some infectious epidemics, do they work for COVID-19? And even if they work for this novel coronavirus, do they have to be implemented by a certain point in the epidemic? Or are they locking down the barn door after the horses are long gone?”

    – National Review

  11. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/386768.php

    Did you catch this. We have Democratic officialdom, Democratic media, and, here in Turleyland, rank-and-file committed Democrats all telling us the same thing: that the discourse within the Democratic Party is completely worthless. George McGovern is dead; Nat Hentoff is dead; Mark Kleiman is dead; Jerilyn Merritt is over 70; Alan Dershowitz is over 80.

    1. April 09, 2020
      Chris Hayes, One Month Ago: Trump “Personally Pressured” Health Officials to “Manipulate the Numbers Downward”
      Chris Hayes, Yesterday: Trump Inflated the Death Count So He Could Brag When The Numbers Came In Lower

      1. Chris Hayes in a political hack. No one believes anything he says. He is no journalist he is a NITWIT

  12. Ohio state Rep. Tavia Galonski may have little success in filing a referral with the Hague alleging Trump has committed crimes against humanity by promoting the antimalaria drug hydroxychoroquine. But there are other remedies. Trump has continued to float the emoluments clause of the Constitution by promoting his properties while in office. So why would Trump promote hydroxychoroquine when there are no clinical studies to show this drug would be effective in the treatment of COVID-19–and often has dangerous side effects? As it turns out Trump has money invested in the French pharmaceutical company, Snofi, that makes the drug. Some of Trump’s friends are also heavily invested in Snofi. For Trump making money always “trumps” protecting the health of Americans!

    1. How is it possible that you can be so ignorant, so clueless and so moronic and still be dimly aware that you are alive? Oh, that’s right, you are a Marxist-democrat voter.

      1. – pretty harsh! Heard someone point out the other day that some of the most powerful conservative voices were once democrats, once marxists.

        I’m guilty of it too, but is it really fair to mock or blame people for believing a lie when they never get an opportunity to hear the truth, or the truth is always presented in an unpalatable form?

        But I think your statement most definitely applies to the powerhungry who daily deny the truth or twist it in order to maintain their position. They deserve all the derision in the world for maintaining and promoting such an awful position.


    2. Dennis McIntyire.
      POTUS has an equivalent of $99 in the pharmaceutical company and not him personally but in one of his business that he no longer is involved with. Do your research before spewing lies as usual.

    3. When one breaks down the particular investment under consideration one finds that the investment itself is a small part of Trump’s portfolio and only holds a small portion of Snofi . When calculated it is said that the beneifts Trump receives is in the range of $1,000 to several thousand dollars.

      Looney Dems do no research that they understand. Like the twins most of what is said is made up.

    4. What about bill gate and his fake vaccine for anybody to be able to remove this quarantine ! That’s who needs to taken to The Hague!

    5. Good lord, there are lots of people reporting positive results from chloroquine, including a Democrat congresswoman from Michigan. It’s ok if you don’t like Trump, but don’t let it drive you to being an imbecile.

  13. Well, of course Rep. Galonski (D, ummy) is not attempting to criminalize a policy disagreement. It is patently clear that Orange Man Bad ™ is an inhumane act committed against our civilian population. I mean, after all, he ordered the Secret Service to apprehend private citizens, bind them to a table, and force fish tank cleaner down their throats. He should obviously be executed because…reasons. Oh: and racism too.

    If only he had run as a ‘D’ he would have been so far along in deploying his policies, he’d have to come up with more for his next term.

    1. kydave, JT is flicking a red laser beam up and down the hall and your chasing it.

      You do realize your wasting breath and thought on a state representative right? There are thousands of them and I guarantee one of them does something crazy every day.

      1. Fair enough, but:
        1. I didn’t spend too many breaths on it, and
        2. Since I’m stuck at home, chasing lasers is certainly something to do! It’s certainly more fun than the many, endless Zoom meetings I’ve been in this week.

  14. Perhaps residents of Ohio should file an ethics complaint against Tavia Galonski with the Ohio Bar. She is a member. The form can be gotten by emailing OSBA at OHIOBAR dot ORG.

  15. “Galonski is specifically citing Trump’s promotion of the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine as a treatment despite the absence of conclusive studies on its benefits.”

    Maybe if down the road it turns out that hydroxychloroquine saved lives she should be convicted of cereal murder for killing Snap, Crackle and Pop. 🙂

  16. “I’ve been to The Hague”
    She forgot to mention that she slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

    1. “Now, that right there is funny. I don’t car who you are!”

      – Larry

  17. When I hear the name “Tavia Galonski”, this is not the face I was picturing.

      1. Thanks for the info. Did you see the “Visitor Post” to the right? A guy named Phil Sampley posted “You are a piece of crap!”. Wow.

  18. Galonski is specifically citing Trump’s promotion of the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine as a treatment despite the absence of conclusive studies on its benefits.

    Patients would have a meltdown if physicians prescribed medications based on FDA “on-label” indications. Many prescriptions are driven by patient demand…far too many.

    Narcotics: on-label indication is for severe pain. Man patients want them for mild or infrequent pain
    Adderall: most people want them without Adderall without being diagnosed with ADHD
    Sleep agents: Xanax is often demanded by patients to help them sleep but Benzos are not meant for insomnia. Try telling patients that
    Anithistamines: often used as sleep agents though that is not their indication.
    Some people use antihistamines in place of Adderall because of the stimulants in some
    Antibiotics: major abuse by patients who demand an Rx for an Abx for a viral infection, e.g. common cold or flu for themselves or their children. this is a battle to the death between a parents and a physician.
    Beta blockers: often used for anxiety & headaches
    Low dose daily Aspirin (81 mg / “baby aspirin): no hard core data to support its use as primary prevention of cardiac events.


      Currently Estovir likes to feature himself as a professional, of some capacity, at a medical research lab. But only 2 days ago, Estovir posted this comment under one of countless aliases he keeps using.

      Tom of Finland says:

      Seth Warner blogs from his West Hollywood gay bathhouse; a self-described Power Bottom who loves Hung Peckers

      No gay man on Grindr would penetrate Seth’s Uranus, a veritable incubus of plague

      1. jeez that’s really bad except it’s kind of funny. you can’t laugh at that? Im not sure what a power bottom is but I guess i can look it up on google

        1. Anonymous, one could argue that Tom Of Finland is gay and projecting his fantasies onto others. In any school or workplace this would be called ‘sexual harassment’. Sometimes harassers are gay men.

      2. Seth – while you and I often disagree on politics, I am sorry that you have become the focus of that sort of mocking. It’s terribly unkind.

        1. Thanks, Karen. It bothered me at first because I’m in super fit shape from extensive canyon hikes.
          And I would love to see how tough that commenter really is.

          1. I agree with Karen S, Seth.

            The comments are despicable. I suspect that the person behind them is a coward — and not “tough” at all.

            1. Anonymous, coward, not tough at all, despicable…


              Anonymous cowards are like that….not tough at all

              1. You’ve described yourself perfectly. It’s about you and only you. This is to the freak @ 6:54.

          2. Seth:

            One of the advantages to CA are the many places to hike and enjoy the outdoors. Much more fun than stationary equipment. Hope you have access to some little used trails so you can still enjoy the outdoors while maintaining social distancing.

            We’re lucky where we live, in that we have a great many trails all to ourselves.

            Stay well. Don’t take the more ugly, personal hits to heart. It’s the downside of interacting with strangers online.

            1. Thanks, Karen. The canyon parks are closed in L.A. but there are plenty of canyon roads for similar workouts. I’m hiking 2-3 hours a day.

              Your private trails sound great. You must love them.

      3. So are you a Power Bottom, Seth? You never addressed that messy point



          This was posted by our esteemed lab technician who keeps sharing medical reports on Covid-19.

          How credible are those reports?

            1. Anonymous, does he claim to be a ‘doctor’? It’s weird. He has like 5 personalities.

              1. I’m not sure, Seth. I miss a lot of what’s posted, so it’s not clear.

                1. It is a very sad life to be replying to your own comments Seth.

                  Does anyone like you in real life? Don’t answer that or we know what you will do to anyone who crosses you

    2. yeah Doc i take ephedrine sometimes for my undiagnosed ADHD it helps. wash it down with some coffee, yum. stack a little aspirin on top it really adds to the overall zip and focus

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