NBC Today Anchor and MSNBC Host Tweets Directive To Use “Protests” Rather Than “Riots” In Reporting [Updated]

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A police station in Minneapolis was torched last night as looting and rioting continued in that city. The escalating violence and looting has magnified controversies over how networks are describing the scenes.  Earlier, Craig Melvin, an MSNBC host and co-anchor of “Today,” shed some light as to how his network is framing its reporting. Melvin tweeted a “guide” that the images “on the ground” are not to be described as rioting but rather “protests.”  That framing has been used on other networks, including some segments where the reporting seems bizarrely out of sync with the scenes in the background. Update: CNN appears to be drawing a distinction in an even more curious way.

On Thursday morning, Melvin tweeted “This will guide our reporting in MN. ‘While the situation on the ground in Minneapolis is fluid, and there has been violence, it is most accurate at this time to describe what is happening there as ‘protests’ — not riots.'” It is not clear where that “guide” originated but Melvin is quoted for a source.

Most television journalists from NBC to CBS to ABC to BBC to Fox have done excellent jobs in stressing the understandable outrage over the death of George Floyd, which is currently under investigation not just by local prosecutors but the Justice Department. Indeed, many of these reporters have shown considerable bravery in going into very volatile and violent scenes to report on the protests.

However, the looting and destruction is also a major part of the story as is the storming of a police station and burning it.  The effort to avoid referring to the rioting raises questions about the editorialization or shaping of the news.  There are not a lot of ways to refer the looting and burning of businesses like the Target.  

In the meantime, MSNBC journalist Ali Velshi stood in front of burning buildings but reported “For most of the day, today, it looked a lot calmer than yesterday looked,. And that’s what happened yesterday. It picked up later in the evening. The crowds gathered here and the standoff with the police looked very different last night.”  He added:

“I want to be clear on how I characterize this. This is mostly a protest. It is not, generally speaking, unruly but fires have been started and this crowd is relishing that. There is a deep sense of grievance and complaint here, and that is the thing. That when you discount people who are doing things to public property that they shouldn’t be doing, it does have to be understood that this city has got, for the last several years, an issue with police, and it’s got a real sense of the deep sense of grievance of inequality.”

The concern over semantics in a story involving obvious rioting, looting, and arson undermines the reporting overall. There are frankly only a few words to describe rioting.  It reminds me of my litigation representing members of Congress seeking to stop the undeclared war in Libya during the Obama Administration. The Administration argued in court that attacking the capitol and military force in Libya was not a “war” but a “kinetic action.”

It would be hard to come up with similar alternatives for these scenes.  For example, “arson” could be called “combustive demonstrations” but it does not really convey the scene. Likewise, “looting” could be referred to as “unpurchased advocating” but it does not capture the scene of men breaking open cash registers with hammers or pictures of stores being picked clean of everything from big screen televisions to garden tools.

What is bizarre is that there is no need to try to sanitize or shape the story. There is a legitimate outrage over this death.  There are many peaceful protests and most protesters are not looters or arsonists.  However, there was obviously a riot unfolding and the media should be focused on reporting on scene rather than shaping it in a more positive light. Viewers can understand that there will always be an element within protests that will turn to violent or criminal means.

The men with the hammers stealing cash are not protesters. They are looters.  The people storming and torching a police station are not protesters. They are rioters.  That seems a lot easier than tweeting out speech guidelines.  It does not take away from the terrible underlying story of Floyd’s death or the need for action on that case. It does not belittle the reason for the peaceful protests or the anger of many in the city. It is just fair reporting on what is occurring at these scenes.

Update:  CNN this morning seemed to make the same distinction in dealing with President Trump’s latest controversial tweet.  The anchors condemned Trump for “calling protesters ‘thugs.'” While many criticized the tweet (as I did), Trump was referring to people looting and rioting, not protesters. Notably, CNN distinguished between protesters and looters on the portion of the tweet dealing with shootings.  Thus, it suggested that a single short tweet was calling all protesters “thugs” but then switched into only calling for the shooting of looters.  The tweet however clearly refers to the looting and rioting:

“These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you”

The “dishonoring” obviously refers to the violence.  Yet CNN parsed the tweet to make the first sentence refer to all protesters and then acknowledged that the shooting line that followed refers to looters. How did the subject change mid tweet?

 
 

219 thoughts on “NBC Today Anchor and MSNBC Host Tweets Directive To Use “Protests” Rather Than “Riots” In Reporting [Updated]”

  1. Rioters is the proper term or terrorists. These are all organized and funded hard-left enemies of America. Protesters don’t burn and loot, but rioters / terrorists do.

  2. They’re engaging in sedition. When a police station is attacked, civil authorities have been attacked. Time to round up the Usual Suspects and take them to Federal court to be tried, possibly convicted. Those found guilty can hang out at a Federal Pen.

    1. So is this entire thing a created and sponsored event just like the virus was/is or what ?

    1. hey coward….your are another dumb leftist follower. You repeat what you’re told. Turley has a pretty impressive resume! What have you done with your life? Wear all black & break windows? You clearly hide behind a mask….aka coward! Your type never contributes to the community. You just take

  3. Mob outside of CNN headquarters in Atlanta busy kicking doors and defacing the logo. Enen these brainless, destructive thugs realize CNN is a problem. The destruction of a Target store made me sad but I am kind of enjoying this one.

      1. Please. “Peace-loving Freedom Fighters”. “Peacefully protesting the unprovoked murder of His Holiness the late George Floyd”. And “Wasn’t doin’ nuthin’ wrong”. “Turning his life around.” “Arson In the name of his loving memory.”

  4. Usually when you murder someone you have to CAUSE his death. No causation, no murder.

    The autopsy report does not unambiguously show that the cop actually caused the death of the deceased.

    I suppose there will be other autopsies until they get the result they want.

    But right now, if I were on the jury I would vote to acquit just on the autopsy report and because a destroyed and robbed Target store pi$$e$ me off. Maybe I would acquit just for the Target store, come to think of it.

    If I were the cop’s boss I would fire him.

  5. This is very interesting. From Derek Chauvin’s criminal complaint:
    ———
    The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd’s autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.

    https://www.abc57.com/news/read-the-criminal-complaint-against-ex-minneapolis-police-officer-derek-chauvin
    —————–
    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. I was wondering about the autopsy. Not sure they can make any homicide charge stick without an all black jury.

      1. Not a murder charge. In New York, they might make 2d degree manslaughter stick.

        1. Hmmm. This is NY’s 2nd Degree MS:
          ———
          New York Penal Law § 125.15: Manslaughter in the second degree

          A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when:

          He recklessly causes the death of another person; or
          He commits upon a female an abortional act which causes her death, unless such abortional act is justifiable pursuant to subdivision three of § 125.05; or
          He intentionally causes or aids another person to commit suicide.
          ———–
          I think they are going to have a problem with the word “causes”. From the language of the Criminal Complaint, Chauvin and the other cops MAY have contributed to Floyd’s death, but apparently he was sick before he even fell on the ground. I wonder if he swallowed a bunch of drugs right before they got him out his car??? So they wouldn’t find them???

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

          1. Squeeky– Would someone in New York be guilty of “recklessly causing the death of another person” if he compelled a nursing home to accept Covid-infected patients causing the deaths of several previously disease free occupants?

              1. Yes, it opens the door to a civil suit. On the other hand, as I said in an earlier thread, if an upstate district attorney lost his parents in one of Cuomo’s death chambers…?

                Mistake of law almost never works as a criminal defense. In any event, the NY statute on reckless endangerment is perfectly clear and there can have been no mistake of fact because everyone in the country knew of the hazards to the elderly after the Washington nursing home deaths.

                I wonder if there is federal criminal liability for recklessly killing nursing home patients? They get federal funds and the federal gorilla comes in the door with the money.

              2. Squeeky– If New York is like Texas and the US Government, Cuomo is shielded from liability by sovereign immunity as Governor of New York. And, those working for the state would enjoy the same immunity.

                1. When Clinton was president he was sued. Governor Blagovitch was prosecuted while he was governor. I am not sure Cuomo or the State of New York are entirely in the clear. He recklessly decided to order nursing homes to accept covid patients when it was well known that would lead to deaths and when there were alternative hospitals to take them. Could Cuomo shoot someone and claim sovereign immunity? The doctrine may not be as universal in application as it seems. A lot of governors have gone to prison for less.

          2. Re the drugs– Should be a tox screen with the autopsy. This probably wouldn’t be a terribly hard case to try but for the Mau Mau mob in the streets.

      1. Yep! Now I am waiting for the tox screen. My money is on meth. I bet Floyd swallowed a bunch when the police were approaching his car.

        I feel sorry for Officer Chauvin. As for Minneapolis, I hope the Black Savages burn the city down. It would serve them right for electing a feel-good soy-boy mayor, and for paying to breed the Black Savages. IIRC, the illegitimate black birth rate in Minneapolis is about 84%,

        I am rooting for the Morlocks to clobber the Eloi there.

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

  6. Americans arrest a murderer, charge him with murder and present him to a court.

    Africans riot, steal TV sets from Target and start cities on fire.

    One may be American; one may be African; one can’t be both.

    How long does this charade continue?

    1. When a Muslim, Somali police officer in Minneapolis shot and killed a white woman on her porch all the whits in the city rioted and looted and…oh, never mind.

      1. Not on her porch. She’d called the police about hearing screams and approached the car. In a pink bathrobe. He shoots her from the passenger side of the vehicle, with his partner sitting in the driver’s side. The state police took their time investigating the incidents (months, why was that?) and the partner had to be put under oath and in front of a grand jury before he would offer anything but nonsense talk. It took months to get an indictment. And, yes, the police officer was a special pet of Mayor Betsy Hodges. The two were photographed together when he was in the academy.

        1. Okay, not on her porch when shot. Just off her porch and approaching the police whom she summoned in her bathrobe (typical urban guerrilla wear) when the Somali police officer shot her dead. Now that the important stuff is out of the way(porch or no porch) how about all those enraged white people who destroyed police stations, looted stores and attacked people?

          There weren’t any. And that seems a big difference between the black population and the white population.

          1. The Somali should have been cut while still on the academy, or certainly by his training officer once he hit the street. He was scared of his own shadow and didn’t have the guts to be a cop. That’s why he let loose with gunfire, across the chest of his partner (!) to kill a lady in a pink bathrobe who was approaching the police cruiser to report a crime. But since the Somali was an affirmative action special, common sense was ignored; he was given a gun, and tragedy ensued. No surprise there; it was just a matter of time.

  7. I generally give cops the benefit of the doubt in these situations because I have friends and relatives who are cops and know that they have to deal with 💩 that most of us could never imagine. And in the MN situation, obviously something happened between the victim standing on the sidewalk in cuffs and his lying on the ground with 4 cops on and around him. I suspect that he started fighting the cops and they had to engage multiple officers to restrain him. Whoever shot the tape may have deleted that scene. In any case, once he was on the ground, cuffed, there was no need to kneel on his neck. That is an extremely dangerous tactic, which is why it is generally not part of police protocol. I don’t know why the 3 other cops didn’t step in. The cop with his knee on the suspect didn’t have a stripe on his arm that I recall, so he didn’t outrank the others. Maybe because he was older, they didn’t feel comfortable challenging him….IDK. But you have a cop who appears to be in his 40s, hasn’t even made sergeant, and has a long history of abuse complaints…could be someone with an attitude issue. The immediate termination of all 4 cops was done by the mayor, not the police chief. And likely it was done in an attempt to calm “the community,” which obviously didn’t work. I don’t like the idea of the FBI/DOJ rushing in before the state has a chance to address the issue appropriately. Personally, I don’t really care if Target gets looted. I stopped shopping there after they kicked out the Salvation Army bell ringers several Christmases ago. Those corporations that go left-wing, anti-Christian to cater to the SJW types shouldn’t be surprised when the antifa thugs turn around and bite them in the a$$.

  8. Moses had the Israelite slaves out of Egypt before the ink was dry on their release papers.

    Now that was a smart man.

    1. George – the Israelites were probably corvee labor which is why they left armed to the teeth.

      1. PCS,

        If my uncle were neutered, he’d be my aunt.

        Slaves is slaves, no?

        And, as I recall, the most powerful weapon in the Israelite arsenal was a “parted sea.”

        1. George – I do not have a Bible close by and my house in under repair so everything is a mess. However, from the time they were freed to the time Pharoah went after them, they had battles with at least 3 different group. I am just pulling that out of deep memory so forgive me if I got it wrong.

          1. You are forgiven, my son (he said facetiously).

            Moses didn’t sweat the small stuff.

            And good luck rehabilitating your domicile; those contractors can be sticky.

            1. George – it is water damage from the rains that leaked into the house. The adjuster would not come inside so I had to take pictures of what I could see, but these guys are seeing a lot more.

  9. Abraham Lincoln backed into the presidency in 1860 with 38.9%.

    Abraham Lincoln stole 1864 with the suspension of Habeas Corpus and a brutal military “fix” of the vote.

    President, Tyrant and Dictator Abraham Lincoln stepped up and grabbed the bull by the horns to impose his will and “save” the Union.

    The President is Trump now.

    The Republic is in jeopardy and needs saving.
    ____________________________________

    “Sometimes You Gotta Say What The —-, Make Your Move”

    – Risky Business

  10. 12% Becomes 100%
    _________________

    “Craig Melvin, an MSNBC host and co-anchor of “Today”

    – Professor Turley
    _______________

    What’s wrong with this picture?

    This picture is a false, communist construct as social engineering designed to influence and shape public opinion.

    Answer: The MSM and Hollywood assure without fail that a person representing 12% of the population is in 100% of the scenes on TV and in movies as propaganda and indoctrination to form and shape public opinion – to force public opinion into a particular postilion.

    Objectively in a free society, people on TV and in movies would achieve positions through merit.

    In communist America, people on TV and in movies are assigned positions by communist political officers to shape the thinking of Americans.

    Without the false, unconstitutional emulsifiers, “product placement” of 12% of the population, generational welfare and affirmative action, societal “oil and water” would not mix.

    How long can the truth be kept from the American people?

    Let’s ask Twitter, Google, Facebook et al.

  11. “A riot is the language of the unheard.” – Martin Luther King Jr. To paraphrase that, if you don’t listen, there will be rioting. Certainly Mpls. didn’t listen after Philando Castille, the main police officer has 18 open complaints against him (and multiple fatal shootings) and was the Supervisory Officer. Those officers didn’t listen after Eric Garner (“I can’t breathe!”), there are protests with some violence going on in Louisville, KY after the senseless killing of Breonna Taylor, and protests in Atlanta over the murder of jogger Ahmaud Arbery. Instead of only making demands on how black people should respond to their being murdered, how about listening and doing something about the people killing them.

    1. OK, MLK said something fatuous.

      Any society has a population of feral youths who live in the moment. They form a standing riot in reserve. For the most part, their activities are scattered in various and sundry disorderly pursuits. It’s only in odd circumstances that you have a self-organizing assault on order joined in by the less scrupulous members of the ordinary society. There isn’t any protest involved, just the Id. The only cry for help is a cry for free bedding and appliances.

      Societies vary in how prevalent feral youths are and how intense and promiscuous is their inclination to disorder. They also vary in the degree to which others will take advantage of the situation. And, of course, there is variation between population segments in one society.

      None of the rioters have decent motives, nor do their press agents. And, of course, the politicians in Minneapolis are hopeless. The only thing to do at this point is for the adults to take command of the police and militia and suppress this with lethal force. If Gov. Walz isn’t willing to be the adult, it falls to the President.

      Note, the useless Minnesota legal system is prosecuting a merchant (for murder) for defending his property. An armed society is a polite society. Minnesota’s gentry liberals own this situation all the way down.

      1. Martin Luther King

        “A committee of scholars appointed by Boston University concluded today that the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. plagiarized passages in his dissertation for a doctoral degree at the university 36 years ago.

        “There is no question,” the committee said in a report to the university’s provost, “but that Dr. King plagiarized in the dissertation by appropriating material from sources not explicitly credited in notes, or mistakenly credited, or credited generally and at some distance in the text from a close paraphrase or verbatim quotation.”

        But the committee did recommend that a letter stating its finding be placed with the official copy of Dr. King’s dissertation in the university’s library.

        The four-member committee was appointed by the university a year ago to determine whether plagiarism charges against Dr. King that had recently surfaced were in fact true. Today the university’s provost, Jon Westling, accepted the committee’s recommendations and said its members had “conducted the investigation with scholarly thoroughness, scrupulous attention to detail and a determination not to be influenced by non-scholarly consideration.”

        The dissertation at issue is “A Comparison of the Conceptions of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Henry Nelson Wieman.” Dr. King wrote it in 1955 as part of his requirements for a doctor of philosophy degree, which he subsequently received from the university’s Division of Religious and Theological Studies.”

        – New York Times, October 11, 1991
        _____________________________

        “Abernathy reveals that King had encounters with various women on the night before his April 4, 1968, assassination at a Memphis, Tenn., hotel. The revelation corroborates longstanding reports that King had extramarital affairs. Abernathy…felt compelled to write of “my friend’s weakness for women,” and devotes part of one chapter in the 610-page book to King’s private affairs. King “believed in the biblical prohibition against sex outside of marriage. It was just that he had a particularly difficult time with that temptation,” Abernathy wrote. He said extended travels during the civil rights movement were one reason, but not the main one, for King’s extramarital liaisons. “He was . . . a man who attracted women, even when he didn’t intend to, and attracted them in droves,” Abernathy said.”

        – Deseret News

      2. Out of curiousity, have you ever been to or spent time in Minneapolis? I grew up there and might know it a bit better than you do. Your assumption, “there isn’t any protest involved,” is patently ridiculous.

        1. enigma – so you will be familiar with the state bird, the mosquito. Also, did you ever go to that flour mill museum downtown, very cool.

          1. Without looking it up, I’m pretty sure the state bird is the loon. The flour factory was along the Mississippi River and I passed it twice a day on my way to high school when crossing the river. I never had the opportunity to go inside, or even thought about it honestly. I did enjoy Fort Snelling though.

            1. enigma – the state bird selected by the legislature to attract tourists is the loon, but the state bird selected by the population is the mosquito. 😉 If you get back there, go to the flour mill, very educational.

        2. I’ve spent time in and around Minneapolis. I have family in No. Minn. (Biwabik and Gilbert). Ever been there? They go “down south” to Minneapolis for the winter months. 😂 Anyway, yes, there are some legitimate protesters. There are also ppl taking advantage of the chaotic situation to pillage and loot. But that’s always the case. It appears that the mayor ordered the cops to abandon the area and leave it to the looters and arsonists. I think that’s a highly questionable tactic. The mayor of Baltimore was roundly criticized when she said the rioters “just need space to destroy things.” The rioters appear to be a subset of the young black male population of Minneapolis, which statistically can’t be all that large, so it is odd that the mayor would give them free reign to burn down their neighborhood. But maybe the idiot white liberals of Minneapolis agree with him, IDK. The last reputable politician from that state was Hubert Humphrey.

          1. Never been to Biwabik or Gilbert to my knowledge. I did go to summer Boy Scout camp at Many Point which is on Mille Lacs Lake. Probably as far north as I giot in Minnesota. I was supposed to go portaging with my brother near the Canadian border one year but my company at the time (Southern Bell) had a strike and the managers had to work.

        3. No, there isn’t any protest involved. The people rioting can formulate only two things in their mind: aggression and appetite.

          Yes, I knew you grew up in Minneapolis. It doesn’t save you from the inclination and capacity to project.

        4. HEY! DID YOU EVER MEET PRINCE?

          He broke a window in “Purple Rain” but I can’t see him torching a drugstore.

          Tell me, as a native born American, Enigma, what role if any does a large Somali population there, play in the rioting? If any? how about the looting? how about the arson? anything? or are they equally unruly as all the other democgraphics?

          and what about those white pasty faced black clad hipster freaks chunking rocks? where did they come from? i am curious about local circumstances there and confess ignorance

          1. I have been in the same room with Prince a few times other than a concert. I played on a basketball team with the drummer for The Time. Here’s a story I recently wrote about Prince.
            https://level.medium.com/prince-its-been-almost-four-years-seems-like-yesterday-2fe4c755767d?source=friends_link&sk=8a3c65c751ab1eb37f4f94a4587dfec5

            As far as the Samali population, they arrived after I left and I have no first hand information about them. Growing up there, I learned to fear/respect the Polish immigrants who congregated around Edison Hiogh in N.E. Minneapolis who seemed to resent us “regular” black folks. I’ve read a little about the persecution of Somalians but have nothing to add to the discussion.

    2. “how about listening and doing something about the people killing them.”

      Because every time we do something about the people killing, to wit -other black people – blacks start hollering about racism.

      In fact, blacks never stop blaming racism for every problem in their life, when most of their problems are a result of their mommas having them out of wedlock for welfare benefits or attention.

      Black people need to fix themselves.White liberals need to get out of their way.

      Squeeky Fromm
      Girl Reporter

      1. the biggest contribution white liberals have made to the problem is planned parenthood
        for all the reasons that my prolife friends say are bad
        or perhaps bill clinton’s super predator laws that locked so many up for a long time
        life is full of strange ironies

        1. Kurtz – Are you serious? Planned Parenthood provides women’s health care services and contraceptives to those who otherwise can’t afford them. That means that some black women, like ones I work with, are able to get out of poverty by limiting the number of children they bear, completing their educations and getting good jobs. And then those children, raised by a successful, educated, home-owning mother go to college and repeat the cycle. I suppose you would rather have black women bear a child every year between the ages of 15 and 40, living off welfare and in the projects? The only way for poor Americans, regardless of race, to rise out of poverty is to decrease the number of children they have, while they are poor, and focus on education. Once they can afford to support more children, on their own, then go for it….

          1. Actually, Planned Parenthood is a network of abortion mills. In a just society, their boards and employees would be in jail.

            1. Um no, I had a girlfriend in college who lacked health insurance. She went to PP in San Fran for annual check-ups, mammograms, etc. They provide more health services to the uninsured than just abortions.

              1. They don’t provide primary care. As for mammograms, they’re pretty useless for college age women.

        1. Sure racism exists! I might even be a racist myself. I am not sure because whenever I ask someone here to define a racist for me, I get crickets. Personally, I think I am a half-racist, because I only think around half of blacks are utterly worthless stupid, feral savages. I am pretty kewl with the rest of them, yourself included.

          But just FWIW, you know what group in America is the MOST racist? Blacks. I saw a study where blacks themselves thought they were the most racist.

          But beyond that, so what? I don’t care if blacks like me or don’t like me. I do my own thing. Why can’t blacks do that too? Clean up their own neighborhoods. Get married before popping out kids. Stay in school and do their homework. Quit committing crimes and killing each others. Make any place they live better, not worse. Because right now, I can not think of any place blacks move to in large numbers that becomes better. Nope, when blacks move in, so does crime and savagery and stupidity.

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

        2. it exists, and you witlessly perpetuate its existence by calling so many normal decent white people racists. oh, not the cop, but every single white person out there who doesnt agree with you that looting and arson should be allowed. why how many times have i read online, we who ask for law and order, we are racists too!

          as i said earlier, it’s the belief of many regular black folks, and not just activists and politicians or looney professors, but average folks, decent folks, who believe this not out of malice but with sincerity; that all white people are fundamentally, culturally, systemically racist. i have had this “explained” to me many times. legacy of oppression, legacy this, legacy that. now it’s on the syllabus at university, as dogma.

          isnt that right?

          so if that’s the case, that all white people are racist, then guess what. white people once they figure that out, will cease to care. because there’s no amount of apologizing and backpedalling they can do to appease you.

          when the cracker is done talking, that’s when the real racism will start. he will have that cold, lizardlike look in his eye. you know the one? you’ve seen it a lot recently. that’s the look of a person who no longer cares what names you call him. no anger, just emptiness. the abyss, you’re staring at the woodpile, and the wood just stares back at you.

          1. If what you get out what I’m saying is that all white people are racist you are either making assumptions or not paying attention. Now do I believe in systemic racism? Absolutely. Do I think that it is currently perpetuated by lawmakers and courts? I think that too. You don’t have to worry about a lot of white people no longer caring what they’re called. Steve Bannon is currently in Europe telling white people to wear being called racist like a badge of honor.

            1. Hey, Enigma, yeah, I like Steve. He was up on the COVID from back in January. I’ll have to check that out

              Anyhow feel free to explain how “systemic racism” does not translate into “all whites are racist.”

              I get the impression after decades of hearing it– thats EXACTLY what it means

              i have read more than a couple of your articles. you can free to post some links if this is one that you’ve fleshed out in detail and i just forgot

              1. I’m distracting myself from a different article I’m writing but I will get back to you on systemic racism. In Trumpspeak, the system is rigged and has been since our arrival. It includes but is not limited to; voter suppression, specially drawn congressional districts and gerrymandering, disparate policing and education, discriminatory hiring practices, redlining, unfair housing practices. Insurance rates and lending rates determined by zip codes. You might think most of these have been outlawed but nature finds a way.

                1. There is no such thing as ‘voter suppression’. The two most common reasons for gerrymandering are to protect incumbents and (at court order) to manufacture max black district maps (often with absurd crustacean districts therein). There’s nothing wrong with using geocoded data in setting insurance and lending rates if the vector in question produces a statistically significant effect and improves the degree to which a model absorbs observable variation in outcome variables. ‘Redlining’ was a practice that derived from federal mortgage insurance schemes. For good or ill, it was eliminated more than fifty years ago.

                  1. You are mistaken, even the gerrymandering designed to create black districts are designed to pack most of the black people into a few districts ensuring while they have minimal representation, they have no power. Redlining still exists, many homeowners associations still have covenants forbidding the sale to black people including where George W. Bush lived(s). Those covenants wouldn’t survive a legal challenge but they still exist, why? I’ve been a Realtor and the practice of steering though outlawed still exists.

                    1. gerrymandering designed to create black districts are designed to pack most of the black people into a few districts ensuring while they have minimal representation,

                      There are 54 blacks sitting in Congress. Stop lying.

                    2. There are both congressional districts and state house and senate districts. I stand by my statement that the districts have been designed in several states to allow minimal representation but little power. You calling me a liar and your previous statement “there is no such thing as voter suppression” is a perfect example of ypiu not listening. “A riot is the language of the unheard.”

                    3. Absurd fails to note the fact that GOP legislative strength in both Congress and states is disproportional to their actual vote totals, and this is not an accident as data presented in several court cases have demonstrated . It is partly explained by the mechanism enigma describes where blacks are collected in absurdly shaped districts – see Corrine Brown’s old district – while neighboring districts become majority GOP. Sophisticated software divies up other districts to maximum GOP advantage and the result – like the 2 presidential elections in the last 5 have the loser winning.

                    4. Absurd fails to note the fact that GOP legislative strength in both Congress and states is disproportional to their actual vote totals,

                      No, it isn’t. Republican voters are more efficiently distributed than Democratic voters. You rack up 80% of the vote in core cities and we rack up 55% in the rest of the country. That has implications which you use a single-member-district first-past-the-post system. The only way around it would be to slice up core cities into little slivers. I.e. we’d have to practice extensive gerrymandering for you to get what you want.

                      While we’re at it, you forgot to deduct the fraudulent votes your ACORN types cast by the bag full.

                    5. The only significant voter fraut case in recent history was Republicans in North Carolina. If you have some other examples feel free to cite them.

                    6. Absurd ignores the data on congressional representation vs votes, and the same state legislatures and most importantly the fact that the GOP has been busted for purposeful gerrymandering in numerous states. If the our government represented voters, the Presidency would have been in Democratic hands since 2000, the Congress more often Democratic and GOP margins on the floor significantly less even when they had a majority., and the SC would be solidly liberal, 6-3.

                      But hey, let’s not argue. Let’s turn apportionment over to non-partisan commission as is done iin several states already and is the solution for those who care about fair representation.

              1. I want to know what the result would be if the media didn’t ignore so much inter-ethnic crime.
                I want to know what would happen, the reaction and if solutions would occur. Would the shame and the wider awareness cause something better to happen ?

        3. You’re interested in X, Y, and Z. Those things are not important in this situation. They are seldom important in any situation.

    3. the errant cop was charged with manslaughter today. will the rioters now rebuild torched businesses, or give back stolen loot? i didnt think so

      i see that the Ohio statehouse was attacked last night by a mob of black “youths,” what’s your excuse for that?

      wait, let me guess. racism, which justifies any amount of criminal behavior these days

      that’s ok by me. you’ve robbed the word of any utility, and now it’s as bereft of meaning as the torched out autozone in minneapolis is of merchandise. it was a knife in your toolbox and now your knife is overused, and dull as ever

      1. Mr Kurtz – Phoenix had a rally in support but no riot. You don’t riot when it is 110 and you have a severe pollution advisory.

      2. The “errant cop” murdered a man while three others simply watched, the errant cop has 18 open complaints against him and has been involved in multiple deadly shootings. Amy Kloubachar refused to prosecute him previously, instead he was made a supervising officer to corrupt a whole new generation of officers.
        If you think black Americans in Ohio, and Florida, and whatever state you reside in are unaffected by the events of Minneapolis, Louisville, and elsewhere where black people are being senselessly killed you’d be misguided. I can personally attest that black people a thousand miles removed from this incident are less than twenty miles removed from one nearby.
        I might have missed your concern about the Michigan protesters with long guns in the statehouse. Remind me if you had anything to say about that? Perhaps like Trump, you supported them?

        1. I said they were stupid for not wearing masks. and possibly causing the wrongful spread of disease., that much i objected to. I am not a “covid denier”

          i did say that whitmer’s order was excessively restrictive particularly as it impeded a lot of agricultural workers. not on paper but in practice. so i had some sympathy for their lawful protest however boorish it seemed.

          Otherwise i had no problem with them exercising their lawful right to bear arms. nobody got shot, right? no buildings were torched nor looted. where’s the comparison at all? that piece i had zero problem with.

          now for the protesters who are out in Minn. exercising free speech with long guns, hey, good for them. if they are lawfully protesting and not rioting, looting, committing arson. i have not objected to lawful protests. i have no problem with lawful protests including the open carry of firearms if done in a safe and lawful manner.

          I can’t understand why today so many black folks in the media are comparing these apples to oranges, and now you, but, that’s how you guys think i guess.

          1. I think the “protesters” in Michigan who brought their guns to the statehouse were treated civilly and allowed to threaten lawmakers, why else bring the guns. They weren’t tear gassed for peaceful protests like those in Minneapolis on the first day. I get that you may not identify with the disparate treatment of people in this society because of race, I don’t get that you’re blind to it.

            1. MIchigan allowed open care of firearms including into that statehouse. don’t you get it? they were acting within the law. no violation of any statutes. yet you complain!

              it’s been done by blacks here and there too., in fact somebody was doing it yesterday, i lost the article. but i found this one, an example from 2014

              https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/21/black-open-carry-activists-protest-police-brutalit/

              see in America, it’s not considered intimidation to open carry firearms where the law allows it.

              YOU may FEEL intimidated, but i may feel intimidated by some lout’s baggy pants, aping the style of a convict. that doesn’t mean he’s breaking a law by “bagging”

                1. enigma – I think Whitmer was trying to pass a law against it just before she shut the whole state down.

                    1. enigma – what is your 2A right if you cannot flaunt it in the face of the government. That is why we have it. The reason we have gun codes is to take guns away from people like you.

                    2. enigma – each of the legally armed civilians had their temperature taken by the capitol police before they were let into the building. It is not like thousands of them rushed the building. Whitmer is a wimp and her husband is a simp.

                    3. one doesn’t need a reason to exercise a right. that is what makes it a reight

                      it’s a right of political self expression, anyways. it’s what free people do to express themselves. can you understand this? it’s not unlawful, and nobody was harmed.

                      the obsessive posts you’re making about this do not equate to arson, riot, or looting, and the false equivalency is making you look like a fool Enigma

                      and i know you’re not a fool, rather, a person whose input is valued. so, please focus on what value you can add, rather than subtract

                    4. There’s an old adage, Don’t point a gun unless you intend to use it, I submit that the only reason to bring one is to cause fear, unless you plan to use it as well. It wasn’t a coincidence a group of people happened to bring their guns. It was a plan. Maybe that’s the kind of America you wish to see? I’ll pass.

            2. I believe you know exactly why, but you don’t like the answer and neither do I.
              The gun toters at their protest exhibit a certain amount of verbal respect and restraint.
              The tear gassed crowd is also initially peaceful, but it’s mouths are swearing, saying death to pigs, lipping off personal insults, etc.

              Now I object strongly to differing behavior from police based on the subject or suspects attitude. I argue law is law, and the rule of law doesn’t change based upon a person being polite and well mannered or angry and mouthy.
              But guess what. In the real world, things rarely if ever work out that way.
              If you don’t want the tear gassed crowd getting tear gassed, you’re going to have to teach large scale politeness and no personal insults, no calls for death, etc.

              You and I both know this is the difference that sets off the overlords every time. We see it on individuals youtube videos – change the sex and age and occupation and status and race and the result is the same – once the mouthy angry dissing occurs, the officers immediately produce their own heightened and enraged attitude, and things go downhill quickly. Almost certainly. I may have seen one or two exceptions out of hundreds. You know I am correct.

                1. Thanks I’ll check the picture but I just wanted to say after a friend called I looked at this Minneapolis murder. A couple things. I noticed they played around with the video – a street cam, another cam, then suddenly we are treated to THREE officers on top of the guy, another officer to the right says something to the video taker – the usual likely not good IMO, then I watch as the guys formerly turned head goes toward the pavement under the cops knee – his mouth is then literally on the pavement – he’s already gone or passed out.
                  Perhaps the jerks thought they could do it since the guy was 6 foot plus by the look of it and muscled, but every time they use too much force, keep it going too long, often are screaming commands the person they are attacking cannot follow, and sometimes when they’re zapping them with the taser.

                  Since they cut the video, I suspect the guy never resisted at all. He was complaining and in pain from the cuffs on the sidewalk and let them know a couple times and they ignored him. They had them cinched too tight. It’s a form of punishment on the spot.

                  Yes, THREE of the officers were on top of him – one on his neck, the other two on the rest of his body.
                  Where’s the rest of the video.
                  I saw someone say he wasn’t using his knee ‘heavily’ on the guys neck, but let’s face it, that is highly unlikely. It’s a joke.
                  They released a blurry crap officer walking across the street vid (in other words downgraded on purpose), and you can barely see that guys head and that’s it – the three have him pinned under, the door behind them is open providing cover from the rear view.

                  I don’t believe they played tender. I’ve literally never seen it in hundreds of videos in years – now yes youtubers post the worst they can find, but we never see careful and tender takedowns.
                  Stuff from other nations, yes you can see that.
                  I don’t believe it’s racism, but it is how authority acts a lot of the time. Once again, always be very polite, use respectful words at all times, yes sir, no sir… etc. It is literally ignorant to do otherwise. They will explode on you. They will tell you.

                  Now, I don’t care about what they say or what their warnings are. They need to be held to account, and a bad attitude from a suspect is no excuse. I am aware however they exercise a lot of discretion, so that attitude exhibited can make a lot of difference.

                  1. Let’s not forget what the original alleged infraction was, “attempted forgery” related to the passing of a counterfeit $20 bill to the best of my knowledge. I used to be involved in the merchandising business and after the 2002 Superbowl in San Diego, I accompanied the leaders of a group that had sold the programs in the stadium to the bank with their commission of approx. $19,000. Included in the deposit was 3 counterfeit $100 bills. It probably helped a lot that the person I was with was a uniformed Navy Lt. associated with the ROTC program in a Navy town that I’d hired. The bank didn’t gibve me back the bills but made copies I could take with me. I replaced the $300 the ROTC was shorted and got my money back when I returned to the stadium. During the whole p[process, nobody even raised their voice as opposed to getting killed.
                    You may have seen parts of different videos from different angles. The charging document indicates that even after an officer checked Floyd’s pulse and couldn’t get one, Derek Chauvin remained with his knee on his neck for almost another three minutes.
                    “I don’t believe it’s racism, but it’s how authority acts a lot of the time.” It’s how they act to people of certain races.

                    1. enigma – Reikatalaw has done a breakdown of the charging document and how effective it probably will be. Check him out on YouTube. He is a MN attorney.

                    2. He made ridiculous claims and presented wild theories with little or no evidence. I used to love the law and imagined it to be fact-based. One of my favorite shows ever was the Paper Chase and watching Professor Kingsfield talk about contracts if you can imagine that. This guy made me want to vomit a little.

                    3. enigma – Nick spent 3 hours live going over all the tape available with a former police officer and one of his black friends. You can watch the show at your leisure. In this he was reading the charging sheet and referring back to that program. BTW, the Paper Chase is fiction and it is about law school, not the practice of law.

                    4. Fortunately, almost all of my early exposure to the law was fiction. Watching lawyers in Congress on both sides of the aisle p[probably killed it for me.

                    5. Right, no one is going to have a fit when it’s an authorized vendor on a standard business run, especially from a sports stadium where it’s understandable and likely untraceable from a large crowd.
                      In the current case we might assume it was one individual purchasing from a local retail store. So, I don’t agree a single 20 dollar bill should have anyone arrested if the circumstances are generic, since when is reasonable even a word with law enforcement lately ? I can’t really relate it equally to your experience as your position was one of status and business and it’s immediately understandable from the large sized crowd. No one should have a problem with your former circumstance.
                      The problem of course is a single person at a retail store, then that is ” the only suspect ” the jackboots have. In your case, they had 20,000 suspects from the sports game. The bank and the stadium probably had to do it all the time.

                      So anyway. I have a problem with a charge if it was one $20 bill – a person could easily not be aware of it. I don’t know enough to know how it is handled on average.

                    6. I was likely in jeans and a t-shirt and wasn’t wearing any credentials, hardly looking official. This was a couple days after the game and I was 3,000 miles from home. The Superbowl attracts all types of grifters, strippers, pimps, gamblers, etc. It was my first time ever in the bank, which was miles from the stadium. I was a guy who walked in with a bunch of cash (neatly bundled by denomination and faced) who walked out alive after presenting a few counterfeit hundreds.

        2. The “errant cop” murdered a man while three others simply watched,

          Just to point out the coroner’s investigation is incomplete.

          And, if you want to win a murder conviction, as opposed to a manslaughter conviction, you normally have to establish one of three things, two of which you’ll never establish in this situation and the third you’re not likely to establish.

        3. That’s false Enigma – Klobuchar did not decline to press charges against Chauvin. The incident he was involved in happened on Oct 26, 2006, or about 1 week before the vote for the Senate she won. Her successor took over the case and it went to Grand Jury after she was sworn in for the Senate. She was a leader in the Senate on sentencing reform and voting rights.

          Klobuchar would form the strongest ticket with BIden for 2 reasons and my 2nd favorite is Val Demmings. Does her law enforcement record present a problem? The 2 reasons why Klobuchar would be a strong addition is she is Presidential ready, a not unimportant factor with ageing candidates, as both Biden and Trump are. None of the other VP candidates are in that league. She is also ia winner n the mid west, taking all Minnesota congressional districts in her elections. We need to win before we can govern.

          1. You’re maybe right about Kloubachar’s role with Chauvin though she was still in charge of the office for two months before his case went to the grand jury. I served on a grand jury once and we got cases relatively quickly after the original incidents but there could have been good reasons like her upcoming transition out that kept her from being involved. There were still dozens of other police involve deaths during her tenure, none of which she elected to prosecute. What you and I think at this point doesn’t seem to matter, the Biden team has already distanced themselves from her.
            I know Val Demmings and her husband the Orange County Mayor. I like her a lot but don’t think she’s anywhere ready to be President, a concern given Biden’s age.

            1. Enigma, rumors are Biden’s camp has distanced itself, but the quotes are mostly from those who opposed her all along. Klobuchar is not a racist and it would be ridiculous to scuttle our strongest VP candidate over that stupid implication. Those doing so should consider the black crime victims and families who’s perps she put away. I’m not a Harris fan, but the same goes for her and Demmings, who i do like. As you say, Demming’s not experienced enough to imagine in the WH yet. Governor or Senator would be a better stop.

  12. How did the subject change mid tweet?

    It changes in the dreams of the Dem CNN reporters!

    They are Democrat operators with paid bylines, and they get paid to get viewers.
    They think they get more viewers by lying.
    So they lie.

    Or … maybe they don’t care if they get fewer viewers, but lying feels better to them then reporting the truth.

    They are Dems.

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