Two lawyers in St. Louis are in the middle of a firestorm after they were shown outside of their house with guns in a confrontation with protesters en route to the nearby house of Mayor Lyda Krewson. Mark and Patricia McCloskey are shown aiming their weapons at the protestors, including Mark McCloskey’s assault-style rifle. St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner has publicly declared that she is looking for criminal charges to bring against the two lawyers. That has led to many in the criminal defense field (including many who reached out to me) to speculate on what charges she might bring under these facts. While many have suggested that this would be a slam dunk prosecution or that the fact easily satisfy criminal definitions, it may be easier to get a charge than a sustainable conviction.
The McCloskeys have insisted that they were responding to what they saw as a clear threat. They insist that most of the protesters were peaceful, that they had no problem with those protesters, and that they support Black Lives Matter. Critics insist that they were the cause of the escalation and the gun display was uncalled for and threatening.
The attorneys called the St. Louis Police Department shortly before 7:30 p.m. on Sunday and the police report confirmed that “a large group of subjects forcefully break an iron gate marked with ‘No Trespassing’ and ‘Private Street’ signs.” (For the record, I have seen pictures of the gate and it is not exactly formidable and does appear “smashed.” However, it is clearly marked as private property and was forced open).
Gardner issued a statement late Monday morning that she was “alarmed at the events that occurred over the weekend, where peaceful protesters were met by guns and a violent assault.” She added “Make no mistake: we will not tolerate the use of force against those exercising their First Amendment rights, and will use the full power of Missouri law to hold people accountable.”
Some have criticized the public declaration of Gardner in light of these claims. Gardner has been under fire for the release of alleged looters and rioters without charges.
The question for this blog is what can Gardner use in such a case as a criminal charge and some of our Missouri lawyers might have some insights to share.
First, here is part of the videotape that would feature prominently in any trial:
(1) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his or her use of force is nevertheless justifiable provided:
(a) He or she has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened use of unlawful force; or
(b) He or she is a law enforcement officer and as such is an aggressor pursuant to section 563.046; or
(c) The aggressor is justified under some other provision of this chapter or other provision of law;
(2) Under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the person whom he or she seeks to protect would not be justified in using such protective force;
(3) The actor was attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of a forcible felony.
2. A person shall not use deadly force upon another person under the circumstances specified in subsection 1 of this section unless:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such deadly force is necessary to protect himself, or herself or her unborn child, or another against death, serious physical injury, or any forcible felony;
(2) Such force is used against a person who unlawfully enters, remains after unlawfully entering, or attempts to unlawfully enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle lawfully occupied by such person; or
(3) Such force is used against a person who unlawfully enters, remains after unlawfully entering, or attempts to unlawfully enter private property that is owned or leased by an individual, or is occupied by an individual who has been given specific authority by the property owner to occupy the property, claiming a justification of using protective force under this section.
3. A person does not have a duty to retreat:
(1) From a dwelling, residence, or vehicle where the person is not unlawfully entering or unlawfully remaining;
(2) From private property that is owned or leased by such individual; or
(3) If the person is in any other location such person has the right to be.
4. The justification afforded by this section extends to the use of physical restraint as protective force provided that the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the restraint as soon as it is reasonable to do so.
5. The defendant shall have the burden of injecting the issue of justification under this section. If a defendant asserts that his or her use of force is described under subdivision (2) of subsection 2 of this section, the burden shall then be on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not reasonably believe that the use of such force was necessary to defend against what he or she reasonably believed was the use or imminent use of unlawful force.
jews and their freemasonry own and control the black race ever since the jews freemasonry brought them over on their ships. freemasonry controls their gangs,music,tv,and owns nike along with ALL their favorite athletes. jews have been socially engineering this race since the 90s. jews and jesuits know all about the bell curve and racial intelligence by race. jews were behind slavery and white europeans ended it now its time to remove roman catholic jesuitism and jews freemasonry from this soil. when the races do unite it will not be safe for rome nor its secret society servants.. you can count on the 33rd degrees to be hung then work on down the degrees til disbandment THEN off with all jesuits heads and ALL the popes. time we reinstate our subverted 13th and GET THE FOREIGN ADMIRALTY LAW BAR AGENTS removed from ALL power on this soil.
Lawyer in other states named McCloskey now under attack from death threats and other crimes
where’s the FBI to investigate? threats of violence made over interstate wires are FBI jurisdiction’
“Activists nationwide have been harassing the McCloskey Law Office in Elkhart in a case of mistaken identity since a couple with the same last name was recorded pointing guns at Black Lives Matter demonstrators in St. Louis.
The couple in St. Louis, Mark and Patricia McCloskey, run the McCloskey Law Center in St. Louis.
Martin McCloskey runs the McCloskey Law Office in Elkhart.
People have been leaving negative reviews on Yelp and Google and have been receiving threatening phone calls, according to attorney, Martin McCloskey.
It all started with an email Sunday evening and ever since, hundreds of emails, reviews and calls have come in.
“We’re coming in strapped this time and we’re coming in and we’re going to get you,” Paralegal, Lisa Weimer, described one call.
That call, just one of many similar messages left for the McCloskey law firm.
“You know, they were threatening, they were vulgar,” Attorney Martin McCloskey said. “Wishing people dead.”
McCloskey is now forced to explain to each person that his firm is located in Indiana, not Missouri.
“I’m in Indiana,” McCloskey explained.
The threats have come in one after the other after Black Lives Matter protestors, hundreds of miles away, in St. Louis, went through a gated neighborhood on the way to the Mayor’s home over the weekend.
A lawyer couple, Mark and Patricia McCloskey, live in that same neighborhood and came out armed, telling protestors that they were in private property and needed to leave.
That incident has since gone viral and Elkhart attorney McCloskey, who happens to have the same last name, has gotten caught up in the reaction.
McCloskey and his team have made it clear to all callers that they have the wrong person.
The McCloskey office in Elkhart has no affiliation with the McCloskey Law Center in St. Louis.
“Some of them have been apologetic and they say ‘We’re very sorry,’ and others have said, ‘Well, you have the same last name so it doesn’t matter,’” McCloskey said.
“We were getting phone calls saying we were racist and saying, all kinds of just nasty, horrible things being threatened all day from calls all over all across the country,” Weimer said.
Dozens of people took to the internet to leave bad reviews, while others, have realized that McCloskey is completely innocent in it all and coming to his defense. The vulgar messages, however, have been overwhelming.
“That’s been the majority, though, the ones that are threatening and using vulgar language and saying bad things,” McCloskey said”
Mr Kurtz – here is a female Harvard senior with too much time on her hands and too little education. You have to listen to the video to get the full flavor of the threats and level of her illiteracy. https://djhjmedia.com/rich/2595/
Allan,
Thanks for posting that. It reminds me of a time long ago, back in the Reagan era, when the President would give a speech or an interview and we could trust the news agencies to accurately report what he meant. This way the President was able to maintain the appearance of being presidential. The news outlets would fill in all the warts that were beneath the dignity of the office. Today, the President’s speeches and interviews include warts and all. They have to, because the news agencies have an agenda to destroy his presidency.
Olly on the other hand the most difficult thing for Biden in an interview is to make sure he calls on the right journalist so he can then turn to the page of his notebook that has a prewritten answer to a prescreened question.
actually, particularly for a person with dementia, to keep straight the faces and names of journalists, finding the proper notebook page and remembering the prescreened question sounds like more work than simply answering the question.
I saw that and his handlers are going to need to be extra cautious on what they write down in his notebook. He’s likely going to read it verbatim.
Maybe someone will insert a page of Fifty Shades of Grey.
They could have Biden doing an Evan Baxter in the movie Bruce Almighty.
https://youtu.be/iplfWUtKMzI
I was dismayed at the carelessness with which these people handled their guns. While we all have the right to protect our homes and families, in many states pointing a firearm at someone can be construed as assault. Both seemed incompetent in their handling of their guns and it came as no surprise to me to hear their attorney say they fully support BLM.
I guess they did until the mob came to eat them.
Problem is, prosecutors and police make up false shit all the time, been there done that. Love to see how this moron of a prosecutor will charge, and try the case. Can’t wait till they go down in Flames!
I wonder if anyone knows for sure that Gardner is Soros funded?
451 entries on this topic. Must have been a hot one.
Posse Comitatus. Maledictis
Young, if it’s not a ham & swiss on rye, then guilty!
🙂
Sounds about right! You are ready to try a case.
I have difficulty believing that the prosecutor could convince a grand jury that he should proceed.
David– There is a famous old legal saying that is largely correct: A prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.
Here is a law professor’s legal article on the subject: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2203713
Ham Sandwich Nation: Due Process when Everything is a Crime
David– the only time I ever appeared before a grand jury (I do civil law) I was an Asst. Attorney General filling in for an Asst. DA on a fraud case we were working together. No witnesses testified; the defendant was not allowed to appear or be heard, and the only information the grand jury got was what I told them. I was not put under oath. The man was indicted. I assume the Circuit Attorney will have a staff member handle the case since in her press conference she looked and sounded way out of her depth.
She is way out of her depth if it is a matter of law. As a radical set on destroying the system she is doing just fine.
The ODD thing in this scenario is that communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs) and the MSM propaganda machine believe Americans should NOT avail themselves of their constitutional rights to keep and bear arms, to claim and exercise dominion over private property and to defend themselves and their property.
As much as I support these 2, they don’t exactly look like Bonnie and Clyde.
OT (sort of): Those in charge of public education– not teachers generally but those in charge– for decades have been on the cutting edge of adopting novel but stupid ideas. If you thought “open classrooms” was a bad idea, try this one. In response to the George Floyd killing, many school systems have decided to cut ties with law enforcement. That’s right. Not only do progressives want to get police out of our communities they now want to get them out of schools. Denver’s and Portland’s school districts already have decided to discontinue their contracts with law enforcement. The believe a better alternative to police is to hire unarmed staffers and have them “undergo a new training program focused on de-escalating conflicts, trauma-informed practices, and reducing racial bias[.]” As one proponent suggested, the staffers can be called “peace-keeping ambassadors.” For more reading– https://www.chalkbeat.org/2020/6/9/21285709/some-school-districts-are-cutting-ties-with-police-whats-next
The only thing I can’t figure out is how all of these progressive educators found the time to get frontal lobotomies.
Honestlawyermostly,
I am mostly against the increased police state atmosphere that is creeping into schools. It is detrimental to a free society that needs people to learn how to self-govern.
That said, I agree that there can be a place for officers who are, in addition to being well trained tactically, they should also be trained in de-escalaton techniques and how to interact with mental illness, and, are comfortable working with young people.
These officers, if they gain students’ trust, also can become a resource for students who are not comfortable confiding in administrators or counselors.
Katherine Newman and Peter Langman have both done interesting research that includes the role that resource officers can play in schools.
Rose– I agree with your sentiment. When I was in high school there were no police and, thank God, few administrators. On the other hand, in schools where the policy has been to keep students who are actual delinquents in the classroom, the need for police is evident. The thugs among the students will [and do] terrify other students and many teachers. The criminal retention in class policy came from Obama and it has been disastrous. In inner cities the schools run a bit like CHAZ in Seattle.
The solution is fairly obvious. Set up a rigidly disciplined school in a jail system and commit students to it who commit crimes in public schools. Maintain discipline in public schools. Stop the relaxation of standards and particularly race-based relaxation of standards. The complaint is sometimes that black students aren’t prepared for much class work. Welll, prepare them! That is what school is supposed to do. Prepare the students. And, ban teacher unions. They have been like toxic slime poured onto public schools.
Prairie Rose– Thank you for insight. This new approach might work well in some schools that have a history of staff and student discipline but I think it would be dangerous to remove police from the schools that are located in areas of serious criminal activity, keeping in mind that every large city and even some small towns have high crime areas. Even some small town schools have installed metal detectors for students to walk through because so many students were carrying weapons to school. Should an unarmed staffer try to disarm a student?
honestlawyer – here is the problem that you have with gangs. Bobby is in a gang so mom moves to the suburb to get Bobby away from the gang, however, Bobby takes the gang with him and continues recruiting in the new school. In the old schools, old neighborhoods, OGs go back to school just so they can recruit. Not to learn anything.
Hence, the gangs are always growing. However, with fewer police we won’t have 6 yo handcuffed.
HLM:
They didn’t have lobotomies. The men just got orchiectomized and the women got the feminist disease.
For those that believe the McCloskeys should not have acted to stop the violent rioters take a look at another group of peaceful rioters in Utah where one of the people shot the driver through the window and shot at the car again but missed. Of course we have those that say it was mostly a peaceful protest.
The absolutely breathtaking misstatement of the facts of this case by the POS AG is what Leftists always do. Ignorant people believe them. All this couple did was intimidate a dangerous mob so that they would be left in peace. The fact that they supported this mod financially and politically makes me wish they’d been demolished. What are these good Democrats doing with an evil assault riflel
People support Democrats in big cities because they are all defacto one party city-states.
but white people like the McCloskeys can now see where it got them. a lot of money but when they called the cops nobody came
white folks must abandon the cities and fence them off and let them rot. Starve them of tax subsidies and let them sink into perdition. the big sort has to happen fast.
McCloskeys will move. They have little choice. They will stick it out for a little while but come 2 years, gone for sure.
Prolly move to Lake of the Ozarks . No way they move to Jeff City, that’s 20% black. yes, we are all going to start thinking very carefull about that as a new wave of “White flight” has begun.
‘
But it needs to be a smarter flight this time, to “autonomous zones” — if not openly then at least clandestinely — where we can be safe
Im going to say this bluntly. You can live around a large number of Mexican Americans like in certain places in Texas, no problem. You can live in a place with tons of Asians as a white minority too. No problem.
But if you are white minority in a black city, you are screwed. Sooner or later you will regret it. Should be pretty obvious 6 weeks into this mess. Figure it out whitey or you’re bound for extinction like a dinosaur.
Kurtz– I have had the experience, lived in an area with a lot of Mexican-Americans and felt comfortable and made many friends. Lived around a large Asian population and the same thing. I realized that half or more of our friends are Asian, surprised me. Also lived in a dangerous black community. Except for a house full of bikers we were the only whites. I would never do that again.
One other thing, and it may only be me, but with Mexican-Americans and Asians I forget that they are technically a different race. With blacks you don’t forget and if you do they have a way of reminding you.
I feel the same way,
Now you probably don’t go as far as this, but I am saying a little more. I used to think I was a white racist and then I realize I just was sick of blacks hating on me and all the crime stuff and never-ending guilt trips. I don’t want to lump them all together but if they’re gonna lump us all together I can see in the mirror the side i have to take
now it would be nice to just say cant we all get along but the Democrat leadership which is conspicuously white by the way, doesn’t want that. they and the billionaire faction, who are also conspicuously white, seem to be intent on whipping up black anger and regular middle and lower class white folks until it reaches a fever pitch,. so here is another reason I don’t think I qualify as a racist at this time: the people I am hating the most today are not baggy pants thugs listening to hip hop music, they are self proclaimed “masters of the universe” like Jack dorsey boss of twitter who thinks he can tell us all what we can say or not. I hate that guy the most.
So he can go live with all the black people who hate us, or they with him, whatever, just leave me out of it. I am done, I am sick of it, I want a divorce. I got a vote and I want to vote on a national racial partition plan. I don’t really care what races are in the not-black zone but I want it. No blacks and no guilt trips from white billionaires or antifa freaks either. They love each other so much let them live together and leave us in peace.
I would pay a tax to underwrite a reparations deal like that for the rest of my life but it’s got to be conditional on a safe secure no black zone to go with it. BLM and Democrats, You want reparations, you never want to let go of the legacy of slavery, ok. They think there is no America, fine, let it be divided, but there will be a place for me and other insignificant white people like me in what comes after, to live free from the crime and the endless guilt trips. Whether Obama or Jack Dorsey or Geo Soros likes it or not. I would pay for this but it’s gonna be a negotiation and the terms will be final once agreed.
and we keep the nukes because without them we are toast. It’s the Sampson option or no dice.
The Democrat party leadership and Silicon Valley are so into this white guilt thing, they are in for a penny and in for a pound. They will never change., And they will have the power to run America at will once Donald is gone. Republicans are weak and ineffective and before Donald a fake opposition and they look like have been pretty fake the past 3 years sabotaging him too.
But why do we the majority of the white population, on up to an income level even of the McCloskeys, who are obviously above me, and yet they are not safe and even they have to go out and pull guard duty with guns– how can this be OK with white people? How can we be so deluded as a group to accept this false guilt for what happened centuries ago>? Which is being foisted on us, not so much by the BLM rioters, but really, understand those who are funding them and whipping them up against us on social media with all the censorship and propaganda? How can this be ok that white people are essentially letting a white billionaire class screw us down so hard that we accept a total collapse of law and order?
We can’t accept this and we have to survive the rioters but eventually we have to reckon with white billionaires like Geo Soros and Jack Dorsey who want to cram us down into the dirt. These guys all have security teams and could care less about law and order. We are not able to afford security and even white millionaires like the McCloskeys don’t have enough to be safe. This is an outrageous situation.
We have to start by rectifying the white billionaires who set this all up to fail. We have to smite them. Start with any Republican who goes along with the BLM nonsense. I see some Republicans knuckling under. We get a list and spread it. If we can’t start small by chastening the errant Republican weaklings then we sure won’t be able to do anything bigger than that.
1. Smite white Republican turncoats who abandon the middle.
2. Smite Silicon Valley
3. Smite any big business who donates to BLM
here is a list of those. it’s a big ugly list. these are your true oppressors
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/companies-donating-black-lives-matter/
smite them. use your imagination. i could care less what naughty ideas people get if they read this; it’s clear that this is way past “law and order” anyways
See I am trying to break this down into two problems for normal white folks.
a– the immediate problem. black crime and chaos and BLM and the relentless guilt trips
this is the tip of the spear but not the hand that holds it. they are not the generals nor the shot callers.
b. the shot callers. Geo Soros, his top tier of hired stooges Pelosi and the like , the Silicon Valley billionaires, the C-suite executives giving the shareholder money away to fund more BLM harassment and propaganda. These are shot callers. We have to smite them.
Once they are more fully in charge, once the Donald has gone away, and their control is secure, they will dispense with BLM if they feel like it. Just as BLM went quiet under Obama. But they will ALWAYS find a way to keep on squeezing the white middle and lower classes, for more tax money, for a thousand other future obligations that have yet to be discovered. Their next thing may be flooding the US with another wave from Central America or who knows where. They may pull a crazy stunt of their own like defaulting on US debt and replacing the dollar with an IMF SDR. Look that up if you never heard of it. Maybe there will be more COVIDs to come and more lockdowns from here to the horizon.
We have to smite the C-suite shot callers, the plutocracy, or we will all end up like so many slaves ourselves.
Smite them. And any middle level management that goes along with them, will get it too.
Remember this. In a year Turley’s little island of free speech may be gone too. Probably somebody won’t like what Im saying here and will be complaining about this. Some rotten little stooge of a C Suite Billionaire plutocrat of contemporary America. They are our oppressors and they are the shot callers and no matter how much trouble we get from the street thugs remember this: somebody told them to march on us in the first place.
If America pays reparations to blacks: Re. the black descendants of the Africans who rounded up and sold their friends, family, and neighbors into slavery. Do those blacks also get reparations? The same amount, or only a portion?
Great comment, Mr Kurtz
Maybe read “Into the Cannibals Pot” buy Ilyane Mercer. From experiences in South Africa she has a pessimistic view of blacks interactions with other races.
“Diversity” Pelosi style. White power anyone? Do you think Nans or anyone in the images recalls at which estate they shot this image? I doubt it.
https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/24/political-cheer/
Fiction’s got nothing on this!
Mr. Kurtz,
They do not lump us all together. The media and the noisiest voices are trying to make people think that’s the case.
They don’t all? I agree. I see a few black folks here and there denouncing BLM and rioting but they’re a minority of a minority
it may not be the fault of the good ones but these kinds of things have a logic that operates on the level of groups not individuals
this is a key to survival thinking. you have to know when groups matter more than anything. sometimes you gotta save your skin & kin first..
the only thing I am going to say to moderate my sense of group self defense against BLM and white guilt extortionists is this:
it was a white billlionaire plutocracy of Silicon Valley capos and such like as Geo Soros who set them in motion.
so they are the real problem in the end not all these other distractions.
in the meantime we can’t be reduced into total submission and facing up against black bullies is a timely necessity
if the cops wont do it then we have to be like the McCloskeys
then we live to fight another day against the billionaires who subjugate us all
Increasingly blacks are demanding segregation–special dorms, special graduations, special student unions, special everything set aside for blacks. And increasingly I am hearing educated whites say “Fine! Be gone! We are sick of you too.”
This level of racial animosity is not necessary, but I agree with you; it is coming from on high. I suppose that’s why I enjoy it when the mayors of Olympia and Seattle have radicals storming their homes and why I like the squeals of pricey leftists when mobs hit Rodeo Drive or the homes in the hills above it. Strange that the law and order types are gloating at threats and destruction coming to the porches of those who stirred this vile crap up for the rest of us. On the other hand, I truly feel sorry for the retired black man who invested all he had in a business only to have it looted and burned by these criminals. He sounds like a good guy. The black community is like a kettle of boiling crabs. When one industrious and honest one tries to crawl out he is destroyed and dragged back in. Tragic.
Facing up against bullies, no matter their skin color is plenty. If you focus on bullies of a particular skin color, you’ll miss a sizable cohort.
Don’t make a deal for me!
They owe my family & this country, I don’t know, Trillions at least.
FYI: I’m White!
rip and copy that video before YOUTUBE censors ban it.
they can’t handle the truth! this is nationwide sedition and a criminal conspiracy of planned destabilization getting worse every day
Some poor guy (in Provo Utah of all places) trying to go about his business gets shot by a rioter. This will be largely ignored. Unlike the couple in St Louis, most people won’t even hear about it. When it is reported, it will be spun as yet another example of dangerous, privileged racists threatening the rioters.
The spin has already started. The Salt Lake Tribune helpfully explained that the driver of the large, white SUV sped through the crowd of protesters. It pushed its way through the crowd, knocking several of them aside. They go on to tell us that the police statement doesn’t mention that the SUV drove into several protesters, but it does say that the ‘driver hit the gas trying to leave the situation.’
Soon we will be seeing legal analyses explaining that the poor driver should be charged with assault and the rioter was acting in self defense.
Our country is in deep, deep trouble.
Epstein,
You saw it all before. At Charlottesville.
The crowd attacked the crazy white racist kid’s car first. they surrounded it and hit his car with iron rods and scared the devil out of him,
He rammed people in self defense. at best it was manslaughter. he was charged and convicted of worse.
The psychological message was clear to ANTIFA freaks and black rioters: NOW IT’S LEGAL TO SURROUND WHITE PEOPLE IN CARS
here is the only thing you can do.
a. dont get surrounded.
b. if you do, just drive ahead slowly, stop and go, let them fall off the car, and dont run over them
the video of the cop SUV in detroit which was recently attacked shows the method of how to get rioters off your car without running over them,
key thing is dont hit the gas and freak out and kill somebody like the stupid crazy white racist kid at Charlottesville.
Mr Kurtz – at least a couple of this protesters attacking the cop car in Detroit are suffering from road rash today. 😉
I felt the need–need, I say–to watch that video several times.
Young – and do you agree with me? Road rash for at least a couple?
Road rash for at least a couple? Absolutely! I was hoping for broken legs.
LOL Paul C
@Allan-
Some poor guy (in Provo Utah of all places) trying to go about his business gets shot by a BLM rioter. It doesn’t fit the narrative so it will be largely ignored. Unlike the couple in St Louis, most people won’t even hear about it. When it is reported, it will be spun as yet another example of dangerous, privileged racists threatening the rioters.
The spin has already started. The Salt Lake Tribune helpfully explained that the driver of the large, white SUV sped through the crowd of protesters. It pushed its way through the crowd, knocking several of them aside. They go on to tell us that the police statement doesn’t mention that the SUV drove into several protesters, but it does say that the ‘driver hit the gas trying to leave the situation.’
Soon we will be seeing legal analyses explaining that the poor driver should be charged with assault and the rioter was acting in self defense.
Our country is in deep, deep trouble.