Creighton Professor Triggers Outcry After Labeling Supporters Of Police “White Supremacists”

downloadNow for some good news.  We have been following efforts to have professors stripped of academic positions or outright fired for voicing opposing views of police shootings, Black Lives Matter movement or aspects of recent protests from the University of Chicago to Harvard to Cornell to other schools.  Now we have a professor at Creighton University who has triggered an outcry by calling support for police officers an expression of white supremacy. The University later issued an apology on behalf of Associate Professor of Theology Zachary Smith but no one has called for his termination.  Today, that is progress.  We can only hope that if Smith’s comments were directed at groups or issues associated with the current protests, the university and his colleagues would have the same measured or muted response.

On July 7th, Smith tweeted a response to an article in the Omaha World-Herald. The article, headlined “‘Back the Blue’ rally in Omaha to show support for law enforcement.”

He responded with discussed details for an upcoming rally in Omaha to show support for law enforcement. “Lemme fix this headline for you, @OWHnews: “White supremacist rally in Omaha to showcase Midwestern racism.”

First, worse headline ever.  Smith is likely much stronger on writing on Byzantine Christians than he is as a copy editor.

Second, the tweet obviously treats support for police as an expression of racism.  It is the type of labeling that we have seen around the country where it is no longer possible to disagree with others.  Instead, any view deemed unsupportive of the protests is denounced as racism. It is the type of slanderous claim that will garner popularity for an academic in many circles while creating a chilling effect on others who might hold opposing views.Smith’s response shows how such unfair and hurtful views are becoming a type of badge for academics; a public declaration that they are on the right side of racism.

This time however it triggered a backlash in Nebraska where police still have considerable support and Smith removed his tweet. While it would have been good for Smith to issue a statement directly, this is a good story for free speech because no one is campaigning for his termination on Change.org or other sites. Instead, his outrageous views were denounced in the same public forum in which they were given.  While I find his view of police (and their supporters) to be highly offensive, I would oppose any effort to punish him.

This measured response however has been largely missing on our campuses when faculty express views critical of the protests or underlying demands.  Unlike Chicago’s Harald Uhlig, the senior editor of the prestigious the Journal of Political Economy, there was no call to strip Smith of his editorial position on the Journal of Religion & Society. Unlike Harvard’s Professor Steven Pinker, a respected member of the Linguistic Society of America, there was no effort to see Smith removed from the American Academy of Religion or the Society of Biblical Literature. Unlike Cornell’s William A. Jacobson, there was no effort to have him removed from the faculty.  Indeed, the faculty was absolutely silent in silence to his attack of police and those who support them as racists.

I would like to believe that this is due to a faculty reaffirming academic freedom and free speech – not implicit support for his views or a fear of retaliation if they speak out against such offensive comments.

Let’s assume that free speech values prevails.  Smith can continue to label those with opposing views of the police as white supremacists and the rest of us can counter that view with our own exercise of free speech.  No petitions. No public campaign of retaliation.  No threats against his physical safety. Just free speech countering free speech.

 

247 thoughts on “Creighton Professor Triggers Outcry After Labeling Supporters Of Police “White Supremacists””

  1. Looking at the horrible people who keep making these accusations don’t be surprised if we wake up one day and find being a White Supremacist is a good thing.

    Meanwhile, apartheid is coming back. Black students at universities are demanding separate rooms, separate recreation areas, separate courses, separate ceremonies and separate grades. That concept will have unanimous consent the way things are going. Apparently we can’t all just get along.

    1. It should be noted that this is largely a millennial or younger thing. At some point one would think certain connections would be drawn and made.

    2. Radical blacks are doing their level best to validate White Extremist claims about a coming race war. It won’t go well for them and will galvanize white support for at least law and order Republicans elected officials which will enrage the radical further leading to inevitable bloodshed. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy that I hope can be avoided but using racism to supposedly fight racism is a fool’s strategy. But nobody said the radical were smart.

  2. I appreciate the professor’s stand on free speech but does he really think a leftist dominated organization such as this university is going to censure one of their employees for saying something anti-White? He will be commended in many circles.

    antonio

  3. enigma– I read the link. Are you kidding? BLM points to poor Trayvon Martin as the reason for its springing into existence. Of course, George Zimmerman was acquitted because he did nothing wrong. BLM points to Michael Brown as giving it national prominence even though all of the “hands up don’t shoot” crap was lie. And then there’s this quote in the link: “Rayshard Brooks was killed running from police after having fallen asleep at a Wendy’s drive-thru in Atlanta; the officer who shot him was terminated and has since been charged.” No mention is made of the fact (seen on video) that Brooks fought violently with the officer, grabbed the officer’s taser at fired it at him. BLM is built on a pack of lies like these and is now trying to say they didn’t really mean it when one of their affiliates chanted “pigs in a blanket fry ’em like bacon.” (Of course, the lying thugs did not renounce the affiliate’s chant). And, enigma, doesn’t it bother you that it is an admittedly Marxist organization (that means an organization that seeks to overthrow our system of government) and that its founders consider a jackal who assassinated a state trooper and fled to Cuba their “inspiration?

    Black lives don’t matter to them. Not a mention is made by them of the number of children being murdered by blacks or the many black on black murders for that matter. Anyone who supports BLM is either incredibly ignorant or a racist. It’s that simple.

    1. As we all know, YouTube will take down any offensive video and yet this video has been available for years. If Martin, Brown, Floyd and Brooks had heeded Chris Rock’s advice, they would all be alive today. This is good advice regardless of your skin color.

    2. Black lives only matter if it furthers to narrative of incessant black victimhood coupled with never ending white racism. Most blacks are killed by other blacks and BLM never says a word.

      ALSO REMEMBER:

      Painting is a hate crime

      But it also fights racism

      Gatherings are dangerous

      Unless you’re fighting for marxist organizations

      Only Black Lives Matter

      or you are a bigot

      antonio

    1. Had he instead said that most police aren’t bad and that supporting police isn’t racism he would be canceled.

  4. Mace race addicts with race mace. It will repel whites, Redskins, browns, blacks, and those from Mars. It can be found at Walmart.

  5. Zachary Smith is so completely out of touch with reality (as are many Professors) that he obviously has no idea that the people who are least in favor of defunding police departments, and who want more funding, therefore more police, are black people who live in lower income areas with high crime rates.

    A perfect example:

    https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt–politics/atlanta-city-council-votes-down-withholding-police-funding/dkVvkxqu62JTekBIYqzPON/

    “Councilwoman Marci Collier Overstreet said that her constituents had expressed concerns about rising crime in their communities and wanted more police, not less.

    “I have not spoken to one district constituent who would like to have less police officers,” Overstreet said. “What they are saying is they want a better relationship with our police officers.”

    So it would be fascinating to hear Smith explain why those black people are “White supremacists” because they support the police, and actually want more police, instead of less police.

    What we currently have is a classic example of a mob mentality surrounding BLM, and its idiotic call for defunding the police. There is a huge silent majority in this country (both black and white) who do not support defunding police departments. However, they stay silent, because if they speak up publicly they are immediately accused of either being racists, or of being Uncle Tom’s.

    But there will be blowback, because the BLM/Antifa clowns overplayed their hand in a big way when they immediately started the “DEFUND THE POLICE” meme immediately after rioting, burning, and looting, in major cities across the country.

    Which is why the Trump campaign has been running this commercial ever since:

    https://www.ispot.tv/ad/njeq/donald-j-trump-for-president-911-police-emergency-line

    Talk about low hanging political fruit, that is ripe for the picking.

    Now imagine a guy suffering from Dementia, like Joe Biden, trying to justify this BS in a debate.

  6. Is this an example of Turley sarcasm, tongue in cheek? The professor, in the context of the witch hunts for non BLM extremists, made an extremist BLM point where he would be supported; and the school is applauded for not seeking his ouster. If he had said that Black cops were just as brutal as White cops, or sometimes it is justifiable to respond to a Black with a grudge, with a stick instead of a carrot, or anything else that would offend an absolutist BLM context, which seems to be the prevailing condition, and was not chastised by the school; then we would have a moment. Turleyesque humor??

  7. >> In addition to teaching in the Department of Theology, Dr. Smith also teaches in the Honors Program and the Women and Gender Studies Program. <<

    People should be demanding he be terminated for indoctrinating students in garbage like "Gender Studies".

  8. I do not see much good news here. The professor smeared mostly whites and conservatives, and therefore, it was not expected that there would be calls for termination. I will note that people on the right do not normally call for the head of someone because of speech.

  9. I would like to believe that this is due to a faculty reaffirming academic freedom and free speech – not implicit support for his views or a fear of retaliation if they speak out against such offensive comments.

    Yeah, but you know that’s a lie. There have been no calls for his removal because the administrators and other faculty do not disapprove of what they said, above and beyond some irritation that bad PR might inhibit donations. This is who they are, that’s what they do. Condign punishment for Zachary Smith would be, at a minimum, to have his house burgled and ransacked.

    Unlike garden variety affluent people, professors are larded with benefits no one else has and they shouldn’t have. They are our Bourbons, and when the revolution comes, it should be ugly for them.

    Another issue here is that Creighton is a Jesuit institution. The Society of Jesus was once a Catholic religious order. Now it’s a gnostic cult whose charism consists of single-malt scotch and sodomy. And orthodox Catholics know the church-o-cracy is hostile and contemptuous of them, the quondam Catholic academy foremost among them.

    1. DSS – when I was at Creighton, the Jesuits had a daily standing order with a local brewery that delivered just before lunch. 🙂

      1. Paul

        Evangelization comes in many flavors. What is yours?
        I prefer Bacardi Rum

        Pope John Paul II, in directing Jesuits to engage in the new evangelization, identified a focus that perfectly matches the founding idea of the Society. Ignatius was adamant in insisting that it be named for Jesus, its true head. The Spiritual Exercises are centered on the Gospels. Evangelization is exactly what the first Jesuits did as they conducted missions in the towns of Italy. They lived lives of evangelical poverty. Evangelization was the sum and substance of what St. Francis Xavier accomplished in his arduous missionary journeys. And evangelization is at the heart of all Jesuit apostolates in teaching, in research, in spirituality and in the social apostolate. Evangelization, moreover, is what the world most sorely needs today.

        Cardinal Avery Dulles, SJ

        https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2007/01/15/what-distinguishes-jesuits

  10. Creighton was an odd school when I went there, they had an atheist on their theology faculty. However, the key thing they told us students was to NEVER get our name in the paper unless it was for something good. So, for initiations we left our school id on the campus.

    Like all Jesuit schools, it seems to have become more Marxist over the years. I hear this from my friends in Omaha who went there with me.

    Sadly, what the professor does not realize is that the real black community support the police. Hard for them to be white supremacists.

    1. Paul, it wasnt odd that Creighton had an atheist in their faculty. Jesus Christ had 12 fools for His Apostles and each of them ran away. Much like the Creighton Jesuits had faith in that atheist professor to do good works, Christ too knew good would come from the 12 Apostles, flaws and all.

      Another disappointing group are Baby Boomers. They have produced disappointing offspring, they too ran away from Christ, much like you, Mespo, Allan, et al, and their efforts are not on evangelization but about appetites of various types.

      Evangelization is hard. Calumny is easy

      “Friends, Catholics must stop tearing each other apart online. We should be outraged by those who send virulent comments to one another, preventing actually fruitful evangelical conversation. Calumny, the mean-spirited accusation of another person, is a violation of both charity and justice. Who could possibly blame a non-believer for thinking, “I don’t want any part of that group” if they see how Catholics engage each other on social media? Join me in standing against this.“

      – Bishop Robert Barron

      1. Anonymous – Catholicism ran away from me. I was in and out for a long time until I went to Creighton and my Jesuit confessor told me there was no such thing as hell. So what the heck was I worried about. 😉

      2. “Another disappointing group are Baby Boomers. They have produced disappointing offspring, they too ran away from Christ, much like you, Mespo, Allan, et al, and their efforts are not on evangelization but about appetites of various types.”

        Estovir, have you become a mind reader that you know my appetites and my date of birth? One can always accuse people of having disappointing offspring. Jesus Christ ran away from Judaism and the Torah. No he didn’t. His followers did after his death and created a new Bible while not ridding themselves of the old one. Then the followers of “Christ”, Catholics ran way from Catholic dictates and formed new spin-offs such as Lutherism and the Anglican Church. These spin-offs were because of moral decisions along with personal pleasures. We have seen the Catholic Church and the Inquisition and we have seen the Pope gravitate from the position of Bishop Sheen towards the totalitarianism of communism.

        Is it disappointing when groups gravitate away from the conventions of the day when what is being preached is wrong? Some actually believe in the written word of God based on its morality no matter which religion they adhere to. You are a Catholic. Hopefully you don’t just preach the gospel but you hold the important words in your heart. Immersing oneself in Catholic religiosity does not mean (IMO) one is a good Catholic. More important is what is in one’s heart and head. I don’t think your statement above is consistant with that. I base that on whatever religious training and ongoing religion I have had along with life experience. That includes an experience with the Vatican that proved that some people are more equal than others which permitted a spousal relationship in a manner not supposed to be approved of but approved based solely on a Bishop and a Cardinal being in the family with one in the Vatican.

  11. Example of free speech progress? I don’t think so. You say, ” it triggered a backlash in Nebraska where police still have considerable support”. Based on your examples over the past number of posts you are on your way to proving the intolerance of the left and confirming the tolerance of the right.

  12. I felt that Turley was saying the “victory” was a community finally standing up for sanity. But yes on our side, nothing has changed. This is how normal people express disapprobation. It’s just that “normal people” now refers almost exclusively to people on the right. The normal people who undoubtedly exist on the left are afraid to come out against the insanity because their heads will be on the chopping block next. We don’t have a right/left problem, we have a crazy/not crazy problem and the crazies have taken command of the left so now anybody on the left who isn’t crazy is in a quandary.

    1. It is neither fortunate or unfortunate. The ethnic composition of police forces is a matter of indifference as long as recruitment and promotion are according to impersonal criteria.

      As we speak, 12.6% of all police and sheriff’s patrolmen are black, almost precisely the black share in the working population.

    2. In Omaha, where Creighton resides, black cops and Hispanic cops match/mirror the racial makeup of our city in the Omaha Police Department.

      We also have an amazing longstanding organization, OMAHA360 which has been problem solving for many years with all of the issues related to poverty, mental health, education, city planning, police et al; we are known for working together. Our only worry we have is that the delicate balance will be disrupted by “blue staters” and their broken ways moving in to our city as they run from their blue cities and start impacting and eliminating our delicate balance as a 50/50 red/blue city who actually do pretty well together despite the national culture doing the opposite.

    3. Depends on where you live. Where I am there are more hispanic and black cops combined than white, and there always have been. Mileage varies, and that’s my biggest issue with ivory tower, left-leaning ‘intellectuals’. No one person or group of people’s experience is universal. That should be a no-brainer, which leads me to believe the intelligentsia and their young minions got no brains.

  13. One of the foundational ideas supporting free speech always has been that if everyone is allowed to speak their piece, citizens are capable of sorting out the good from the bad. If Zachary Smith calls police and those who support them “white supremacists,” or if AOC says that hunger caused by the pandemic is the reason for the rioting and looting and murder, or if democrats say that President Trump is a racist, other speech based on facts will allow citizens to evaluate the competing thoughts and reject those that are false. The problem we face today, in large part because of professors like Smith, is that our society is belching hundreds of thousands of students who instead of being challenged to think critically are if they dissent from what they are being told by the powers that be. And this is not limited to universities because we see the same indoctrination and brainwashing beginning in public schools with things like the New York Times Magazine’s 1619 Project which already is in more than 3,000 schools, and we see it infecting the population at large with the propaganda spewed daily by the media and enforced by the punitive measures taken against those who disagree. When the speech of those who disagree is silenced, doesn’t that mean that it no longer makes no sense to use free speech as the justification for allowing people like Zachary Smith to say things like he did? If debate no longer is tolerated, does that mean that acquiescence or violence are the only possible responses?

  14. How on earth is that progress???

    Smith expressed an opinion that is pervasive throughout academia, so why would anyone expect his fellow academics or the radicals in the cancelling culture to ask for HIS removal? That’s NOT progress, but rather an excellent example of things are NOT changing.

  15. Let’s see it’s OK to tweet or whatever you use to bash police and White people in general? Come back later say “oh I’m sorry” and everything is peachy? If you tell the truth about subversive groups like BLM or ANTIFA you lose your position, is that how it goes?

  16. He should have used the term “unconstitutional authoritarianism” instead of “white supremacist” – that is the real problem harming African-Americans. Oath sworn officials exceeding their constitutional authority, acting under color of law. These are also crimes under federal law, if we had any federal cops.

    1. AZ:
      Maybe it would help your dwindling readership if you explained exactly what you are trying to say. “Unconstitutional authoritarianism” is redundant. How it “harms” black folk isn’t clear at all under “color of state law” or not. And last I looked, federal cops are everywhere from the FBI to the Park Police to MPs to the Secret Service to ICE and beyond. Try again.

      1. For example: the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling on “Carpenter v. US” was, like most court rulings, multi-faceted. The ruling not only outlawed long term “warrantless” electronic surveillance but the wording of the ruling actually outlawed long term “warrantless” surveillance involving non-electronic means as well. The premise was that long term 24/7 “warrantless” surveillance creates a totalitarian style “mapping“ of an individual or group of individuals, not meeting 4th Amendment legal requirements. This landmark ruling means this type of surveillance is a “search” under the 4th Amendment. Local police, prosecutors, state Fusion Centers, FBI, DHS and other federal agencies continue to defy the ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court, which is the “supreme law of the land” in the USA (Article VI) – this is “unconstitutional authoritarianism” that not only harms African-Americans but harms gun owners, property rights, etc. The “Heller” ruling on the 2nd Amendment gun rights expanded gun rights, so all Americans – including conservatives – are harmed when oath-sworn officials (Title 5 US Code 3331) grab power they don’t really have under the U.S. Constitution.

  17. So now a free speech “victory” is a group of leftist professors not calling for the termination – employment or otherwise — of another leftist professor who engages in a racist screed against patriotic white folk. Awfully, low bar and likely false. Maybe you’d have a point if he labeled the BLM Marxists as the Bigoted Lynch Mob they so clearly are and his bovine brethren didn’t take up arms against him. Until then this “heads I win, tails you lose” argument needs a rework.

      1. Anonymous:

        Never heard of Windham either. Cheaper than Dirt has a limited stock of them and Guns International (I like the Rock River) always has a few. Under a grand will be tough.

          1. I would be interested in your response to this question. Why do black communities seem to struggle when other immigrant minority communities seem to be able to exist without the violent statistics that black neighborhoods suffer from? Maybe they do exist? If so, where are they and why are they not held up as a model for others? Why can’t they take over a section of Detroit (It would seem real estate would be cheap there) and make it flourish?

            1. White evolving communities have never been bombed by the National Guard (Greenwood, OK) or totally erased by attacks from their white neighbors (Ocoee, FL and Rosewood, FL). Some argue the basis for the middle-class was the GI Bill which was almost universally denied to black veterans whether by having their applications denied or by lenders refusing them. I’ll ask you a question, how much have you heard about white-on-white crime which occurs in nearly the same percentages as black-on-black crime?

              1. enigma – does white on white crime grab the headlines? It is not as sexy as white on black crime?

                1. Black on Black crime headlines FOX News and right wing media because it’s a diversion to keep from addressing any other issue. Their response to anything, “What about Black on Black crime?”

                  1. enigma – if black lives matter why is the death rate in Chicago and NYC rising, why is PP aborting black babies without anyone marching on them?

                    1. enigma – I prefaced my remarks. We cannot march for white babies because we will be killed if we declare that all lives matter.

                    2. Enigma, the culture of death from the left does not permit time to discuss the death of black babies, black children or black adults but nowhere in America but in black communities do we see so much killing of children. The death of children is something you seem to shy away from.

                    1. Plenty of poor people in the rural and small town trailer parks of Upstate New York. The homicide rate in non-metropolitan counties in New York is around 1.2 per 100,000 (1/4 the national mean) The robbery rate is around 7 per 100,000 (< 7% of the national mean).

                  2. Black on black crime certainly doesn’t headline in the MSM. I would think the major headline would be 13 dead 64 shot in Chicago alone this past weekend. That is enough death for one city to start looking at how such a thing could happen and why this has been happening for 50 years under democratic control.

                  3. that’s racist. they are also routinely highlighted by BLACK conservatives like Larry Elder, Candace Owens, and Brandon Tatum.

              2. Enigma, I guess you didn’t know this but Thomas Sowell went to Howard University courtesy of the Gi Bill. I am not denying racism but I wonder why the GI bill worked for him.

                  1. DSS, when Sowell was discharged from the marines he got a job and attended night school at Howard Univeristy. Then he went to the other universities you mention.

              3. Ph U,

                These Black Racist have been digging up Tulsa looking for those they “Claim” were bombed/killed, they haven’t found Crap looking for over a decade.

                If it was so bad at Greenwood in 1921 how was it Greenwood peaked in 1946?

                Take your Racist BLM/antifa Islamic supporting fascist nuts & shove them were the sun doesn’t shine.

                  1. Black Wall Street didn’t happen?

                    There was no Black Wall Street. There were 8,500 blacks living in Tulsa in 1920. A commercial thoroughfare serving a population that size would (one might expect, given the countours of the financial sector of the era) have had 2 or 3 banks and perhaps 10 insurance agencies.

                  2. What happened a 100 years ago must be justification for your support for BLM/antifa Fascist Terrorist today.

                    Here is one of the tragedies you & people like you have created today in this time, just like the black former police chief of St Louis murdered by your goon squads.

                    You Own It Now!

              4. Your referencing events from 1921 and a century ago? So this is why? It would seem then the Irish should have no successful communities since they were treated very poorly by the English. Why isn’t the message to the black community one of, it is time to move on and stop looking at the past since it is destroying your future. If what you listed was so horrible, why would you want to let that dictate today? It is not 1921. I would also presume that most of the black community is not making life choices based on Greenwood, OK if they even know about what happened at all.

                1. The effects of denying black veterans benefits of the GI Bill in some cases are the difference between generational wealth and poverty. Redlining, steering, restrictive covenants, voter suppression, stop & frisk, broken windows policing (in targeted neighborhoods). You likely deny the existence of systemic racism because you’re not affected by it. I didn’t get to gerrymandering and voter suppression because you likely don’t think they exist either. Don’t presume to know how the black community bases its decisions or what should matter to them.

                  1. The effects of denying black veterans benefits of the GI Bill in some cases

                    Which category of black veteran was denied GI Bill benefits?

                    Redlining, steering, restrictive covenants, voter suppression

                    There hasn’t been any redlining in 50 years, the practice only existed for about 30 years, and the effect on the asset picture of blacks is minimal. Restrictive convenants were spottily present from about 1910 to about 1948 and haven’t been enforced for 70 years. Neither redlining nor restrictive covenants prevent asset accumulation by blacks, they merely inhibit investing in real estate as opposed to other savings and investment vehicles.

                    1. “Which category of black veteran was denied GI Bill benefits?”

                      Every category. I’d take the time to document it for you but you’d on;ly dismiss it.

                    2. >>“Which category of black veteran was denied GI Bill benefits?”

                      >Every category. I’d take the time to document it for you but you’d on;ly dismiss it.”

                      Enigma, you are always thin on the details.

                    3. You were expecting something other than an evasion? Waal, blacks who received dishonorable and general discharges did not get GI Bill benefits (neither did whites in the same situation). Blacks could not buy homes in certain neighborhoods with loans guaranteed by the GI Bill.

                      https://www.history.com/news/gi-bill-black-wwii-veterans-benefits

                      There’s a mess of verbiage about an unemployment benefit that was in force for just a year. The author’s contention that blacks were lynched for applying for GI Bill benefits is pure invention. And he’s given to innumerate nonsense like ” The majority of skilled jobs were given to white workers”, as if you’d expect something else in a country where 87% of the population is white. And then you see howlers like “And new white suburbs often came with overtly racist covenants that denied entry to Black people. ” without acknowledging that those covenants were unenforceable after 1948. And then there’s this

                      Black veterans in search of the education they had been guaranteed fared no better. Many Black men returning home from the war didn’t even try to take advantage of the bill’s educational benefits—they could not afford to spend time in school instead of working. But those who did were at a considerable disadvantage compared to their white counterparts. Public education provided poor preparation for Black students, and many lacked much educational attainment at all due to poverty and social pressures.

                      A disparity that has nothing to do with the GI Bill provisions and which has been manifest in just about every sort of venue you’d care to name. (John Ogbu found it among the bourgeois black youth of Shaker Heights, Ohio).

                  2. Ok, I will accept that premise that there might be generational wealth issues due to GI Bill. Couldn’t one also argue that generational wealth could be halted by college tuition/acceptance? Why hasn’t affirmative action resulted in blacks getting generational wealth? It’s somewhat telling that you never mention illegitimate birthrate or early pregnancy affecting generational wealth. It would seem that restoring the family unit in the black community would be a great first step in trying to build a positive black community instead of blaming the past or others.

                    1. The more accurate way to view affirmative action would be as a cap as opposed to mandatory access which it never was. Imagine Population X represented 15% of the population but was allowed (after previously being denied) 10% of college admissions or contracts (many of which went to WBE firms of which many were fronted by white males). Affirmative action was never the gift to minorities it’s perceived as but an excuse to do no more than the minimum. There are systemic reasons including mass incarceration which are factors in the illegitimate birth rate. Without addressing those, the solution is not in the offing. There is almost no example from the past that hasn’t been replicated as much as possible in the future.

                    2. Ok, I will accept that premise that there might be generational wealth issues due to GI Bill.

                      In 1937, John D Rockefeller died with a net worth of $1.4 bn. As a share of the available assets in this country at that time, that was the rough equivalent to the top three occupants of the Forbes 400 list today. Not long ago, I read an estimate that the Rockefeller scions are worth, collectively, about $11 bn (I know, very soft data). There are scores of Rockefeller scions. They haven’t governed any business of much consequence since John D Rockefeller’s youngest grandchild retired – around about 1981. Still a wealthy family, but it’s now their scions are now at the status of ‘wealthiest family in greater Toledo’ rather than ‘wealthiest family in America’. That fall in their relative position took less than three generations.

                    3. Mr. Kurtz,
                      Hope you are able to make time for the rest sometime.

                      Bret Weinstein is the professor at Evergreen who was essentially run off campus by crazy, bat-wielding students because he dared oppose their desire to force all non-people of color off campus for a day.

                      He has a bit of reach. Hopefully enough…

                  3. Here’s an Enigma.

                    chicago, summer, 2020

                    black mayor…. black chief of police…
                    Democrats fetch 90% of the vote.
                    population of Chicago is about 30% hispanic and 30% black
                    most of the white people ran away already…..
                    must be a racial utopia, huh?

                    No, actually, record numbers of dead and wounded people, majority of victims black, and odds are, a majority shot by other blacks

                    HERE’S THE ENIGMA– YOU STILL BLAME WHITEY!

                    https://abcnews.go.com/US/chicago-sees-18-homicides-deadliest-day-60-years/story?id=71150234

                    let me do some math here. If we are to be blaming a group for crime, the group I blame is THE ONES WHO DO IT MOST OFTEN PER CAPITA
                    THAT’S BLACKS WAY AND FAR AWAY
                    not crackers
                    and the Enigma here, after decades of statistics proving the point. is why black people can’t reckon with this.
                    go ahead and let us know what else ya got because if you stand on the cards you already laid on the table, you lose

                    1. about the only group of white folks who should be blamed for anything now, are, in order:

                      a) white billionaires, who have deindustrialized America and want to use a permanent underclass to bully and intimidate the middle class into submission, and
                      b) white Democrat leadership, who enables this dynamic, green lighting a nationwide prison riot on the streets, at behest of white billionaires

                      but go ahead and keep on blaming Trump and a bunch of red baseball cap wearing yahoos in the heartland.

                      whatever you do, DONT BLAME BLACKS BECAUSE RACIST

                      see how this works?

                      works for who?

                      a) billionaires
                      b) Democrat leadership
                      c) black criminals
                      d) infrastructure of people enabling this, from journalists, editors, to university cranks aka professors, to the workers who run the government social services infrastructure, er, the client base of the Democrat party leadership.

                      who it doesnt work for? Pretty much everbody else.

                    2. If I were to blame “Whitey” for anything it would be for refusing to even look at the results os systemic racism by using those same results to deny it. Using Chicago as an example, when the Great Migration brought Southern black people to Chicago looking to work in factories and find better employment. They were steered into ghettos and inferior schools and blocked from union membership. Black leadership in Chicago is a very recent thing as Daley had a grip for quite some time. Even a black Mayor has no control over the business community and police unions have more control over policy these days than police chiefs. There is a reason you refuse to acknowledge for many of the things you use as a reason to turn a blind eye.

                    3. enigma – Bill, define systemic racism and prove it does not pertain to BLM. Buddy, I like you, however, you keep living in the past. Democratic leadership in Chicago is the same regardless of the skin color.

                    4. Sorry, I’m not in the jumping through hoops business today. You’re quite capable of defining systemic racism, accepting its existence may be another matter. Those who don’t learn from the past…

                    5. Bill – I cannot accept or reject something that no one can define. I do believe in learning from our mistakes and as someone who lived in a redlined community I can speak to how property transfers were done without using a mortgage company. Redling did not stop the sales of property, just how property was purchased. My first house was a redlined house, in a redlined community. However, redlining is not coming back.

                    6. Bill – systemic is the word I am having a problem with. I don’t see the “system” in systemic.

                    7. You could replace the word systemic with structural or institutional, it’s built in, beginning with our Constitution and embedded in any number of laws and policies since.

                    8. It is not just laws but also local/state/federal government policies which show systemic racism.
                      1. Disparate sentencing between crack cocaine and powdered cocaine which has now been reduced to 18:1 from 100:1 (thanks I guess) with the preponderance of crack users being minorities.
                      2. Removing eligible voters from rolls, often because their surname is similar to an ineligible convicted felon in states where they are not eligible, the names most often cited are common Hispanic and black sounding names. I could document this in Florida and Georgia but am certain it happens elsewhere.
                      3. An immigration policy that favors Europeans
                      4. Stop & Frisk and broken windows policing which only occurred in minority neighborhoods.
                      5. College entry requirements which reserve space for legacies (mostly white) and reward whites entering schools that until relatively recently were all white.
                      6. Psuedo-Segregated schools which still exist in the South with inferior resources.
                      7. Lack of voting access (in a recent Kentucky election, only one polling location was open in both Lexington and Louisville to support the entire “mostly urban” city.
                      8. The Electoral College which gives more power to a rural white voter than an urban black voter. The original purpose was to protect slave states from losing their rights to own people so the purpose hasn’t changed all that much.
                      9. The Supreme Court granting faith based corporations the ability to discriminate against their workers
                      10. Zip-code based higher lending and insurance rates.
                      11. FBI targeting of “Black Identity Extremists” while ignoring the KKK, Neo-Nazi’s and white supremacists groups that have killed more people than foreign terrorists since 9-11.

                    9. Bill – I asked you for 5 law and you could not give them to me.

                      1. Disparate sentencing between crack cocaine and powdered cocaine which has now been reduced to 18:1 from 100:1 (thanks I guess) with the preponderance of crack users being minorities.

                      This was at the request of Black ministers and leaders. Crack was killing their communities.

                      2. Removing eligible voters from rolls, often because their surname is similar to an ineligible convicted felon in states where they are not eligible, the names most often cited are common Hispanic and black sounding names. I could document this in Florida and Georgia but am certain it happens elsewhere.

                      Mistakes happen. However, Judicial Watch has successfully sued a couple of states to clean their voter roll and has suits going in a couple more.

                      3. An immigration policy that favors Europeans

                      We have an odd immigration policy, however Somalis seem to be getting in, as well as Chinese.

                      4. Stop & Frisk and broken windows policing which only occurred in minority neighborhoods.

                      Be honest with yourself now. Stop and Frisk and Broken Windows was effective made those minority neighborhoods safer.

                      5. College entry requirements which reserve space for legacies (mostly white) and reward whites entering schools that until relatively recently were all white.

                      Legacies are going to be traditionally white for some time, however, in the 1980s I taught with a Latina who graduated from Harvard, so her kids would be legacies.

                      6. Psuedo-Segregated schools which still exist in the South with inferior resources.

                      Are you talking about HCBUs?

                      7. Lack of voting access (in a recent Kentucky election, only one polling location was open in both Lexington and Louisville to support the entire “mostly urban” city.

                      We had something like that happen in Arizona, we voted the person out of office.

                      8. The Electoral College which gives more power to a rural white voter than an urban black voter. The original purpose was to protect slave states from losing their rights to own people so the purpose hasn’t changed all that much.

                      Which of the Fly-Over States is a slave state?

                      9. The Supreme Court granting faith based corporations the ability to discriminate against their workers

                      This has nothing to do with the topic

                      10. Zip-code based higher lending and insurance rates.

                      Everyone in that zip code is affected, regardless of color. I have lived in a zip code that had higher rates. Now, I live in a zip code with much lower rates.

                      11. FBI targeting of “Black Identity Extremists” while ignoring the KKK, Neo-Nazi’s and white supremacists groups that have killed more people than foreign terrorists since 9-11.

                      The US Army is telling its soldiers that people wearing MAGA hats are terrorists. BTW, since Antifa pushed BLM out of CHAZ, do you consider them a white supremacist group?

                    10. Good job Paul.

                      Enigma said: “3. An immigration policy that favors Europeans”

                      Let me add one thing. The Pew Study ran the numbers. The number of people from various areas living in the US for the last several years. From my memory:

                      Europeans accounted for ~13%
                      Mexicans / Latin America accounted for 50+%

                      Enigma need a 150 year update of his files.

                    11. Everything I mentioned exists, you choosing to ignore them doesn’t make them go away. The segregated schools I was speaking of are public schools, elementary through high school. One Latina legacy doesn’t negate the reality, zip code pricing in neighborhoods that are predominantly minority is still systemic racism. These policies are racist, intentionally so,, if you don’t care just say so.

                    12. Enigma, I chimed in on only one comment because Paul did such a good job. You say things that are provably false.

                      Europe 13% Mexico and Latin America 50% That is a wide reversal of what you said and makes one question anything you have to say.

                    13. “Enigma, I chimed in on only one comment because Paul did such a good job.”

                      You really have no clue what a troll you are. You didn’t chime in once, you made four consecutive comments when nobody else was talking, in someone else’s conversation, all to deny the existence of the truth.

                    14. I chimed in once to your list which was completely debunked by Paul. I added numbers which showed the reverse of what you said was true. You are posting on an open list. If you post garbage expect comments you won’t like.

                      You are annoyed because over and over again you have been proven wrong.

                    15. Bill – zip code pricing is not racist, it is based on crime rates. I am not sure if you are aware of this but people tend to commit crimes in an area close to home. It includes everyone in that zip code.
                      If people live in areas together, their schools will appear to reflect their demographics, that does not mean they are segregated. And busing is horrible for everybody.

                      BTW, do you agree that BLM is Marxist and is trying to break up the nuclear family? Do you believe BLM supports blacks or just blacks killed by white cops? Or do you believe BLM is just out for itself? Is BLM systemically racist? Are HBCUs systemically racist? Are black organizations on college campuses systemically racist? Is the NBA, NFL, etc. systemically racist? Is the Nation of Islam systemically racist? The NAACP? Al Sharpton? I will stop here.

                    16. Zip code pricing disproportionately causes minorities to pay more for multiple services, said another way, white people pay disproportionately less for many services, how could that possibly be racist, especially since through a variety of means, many of those heavily minority neighborhoods were created for them to keep them from being your neighbor, and the crime rates are higher because of policies like broken windows policing and stop & frisk where black and Hispanic people are much more likely to be charged with crimes that nobody is looking for in white neighborhoods, like drug use where statistics show the percentage of usage is the same among races.
                      As to your questions, which reek of a desperate need to ignore or excuse white racism by accusing black people of it. I don’t agree that BLM is Marxist, I’m an economics major and initially view Marxism as an economic policy, some people might view Social Security as Marxist so I’m going to have to ask what you mean by Marxist before I can answer yes or no. BLM is highly decentralized and I included their statement of what they believe in the piece I wrote and I didn’t see anything I saw as Marxist. I believe they support black people in general and are opposed to many types of racist behavior besides the killing of black people in highly disproportionate numbers. Are they just out for themselves? No, they are out for a better world with less injustice which would be good for everyone.
                      I apologize for earlier suggesting you were insincere in wanting a definition of systemic racism. It’s clear you really don’t have an understanding of what it is. Implicit in the meaning is the ability to impose your racism on others. Starting with HBCU;s, they are a reaction to the systemic racism that would have otherwise denied black people a college education. Most HBCUs were started by white organizations like the American Missionary Association or the Freedmens Bureau or the Roman Catholic Church, their existence imposes nothing on your life except the ability to justify the continuing high percentage of white students in most PWI’s. Those black organizations like fraternities and sororities again are because we were historically not allowed into your schools but your organizations. I don’t view white fraternities and sororities as systemically racist unless they have policies to prohibit minorities from joining (which some historically have) but otherwise I don’t care. I attended an HBCU with several white professors and some white students and am a member of a mostly black fraternity where our advisor was a white member and white members are welcome. Their existence doesn’t affect your life except possibly in a positive way if you’ve ever enjoyed a band at a half-time show.
                      The NBA isn’t systemically racist, you might take up any concerns you have with the almost all white owners. The NFL has been amazingly slow to reach a meaningful percentage of black coaches and many teams ignored the Rooney Rule which said they had to at least consider black coaches in filling spots. They may be systemically racist but not in the way you think. MLB certainly used to be systemically racist, forbidding black players altogether but they’ve made progress. I’m not in a position to evaluate them so I won’t. The NHL? I don’t have an opinion,
                      The Nation of Islam? I confess to not having a comprehensive understanding of all their beliefs. I can see how you might offended by their use of the term, “white devils” although some of the people they were referring to were exactly that. I’m not of the opinion that black people can’t be racist though systemically racist implies the ability to impose their will on you which I don’t really think the NOI does. The NAACP, again founded by white people and while they don’t do as much as I would always like to advocate for rights but at one time, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund when headed by Thurgood Marshall was all that stood between many falsely accused black people and a death sentence. I encourage you to read the Pulitzer Prize winning, The Devil in the Grove by Gilbert King for some pretty good insight. Al Sharpton? I don’t think it possible for an individual to be systemically racist but a very powerful individual like say a President of the United States can go a long way to perpetuate it. I respect Sharpton for persevering after as coordinated an attack I’ve seen on an individual top discredit him as I’ve seen. He certainly made a mistake in believing Tawanna Brawley and her claims, but many white people believed Susan Smith when she drowned her two kids and blamed a black man for kidnapping her kids. During the nine days she was on television begging for the return of her drowned children. Every black man in the community was a suspect and many were treated in that manner.
                      I apologize again for assumioing you knew what systemic racism was. I was wrong.

                    17. Bill – I do not care what happened long, long ago. I care what is happening today. You have yet to define the term. I care that every Democratic Presidential candidate had to kiss the ring of Al Sharpton, a man who still has not paid his legal bills for the Tawany Brawley mess. I know why HBCUs were created and I think they served a great purpose. The problem is, what is their purpose now?
                      As far as Susan Smith goes, no one in their right mind thought the suspect, if there was one, was black. If you were scared, you were over-reacting.

                      If there were systemic racism, there would be a whites only club on every campus. Why isn’t there?

                    18. You think there aren’t white only groups on every predominantly white campus? Then there’s the Young Republicans which almost qualifies, I’m thinking of any of the recent photo’s of the Rebublican interns in Congress. There are white members in all the black fraternities and soroities which has been true for decades.
                      https://archive.thinkprogress.org/fraternities-were-built-on-racism-so-why-are-we-surprised-when-they-do-racist-things-70db8f20aeec/

                    19. Bill – do you think the Young Republicans would refuse a black student or welcome them with open arms? You still haven’t defined the term, my friend. 😉

                    20. No, you haven’t acknowledged the definition which is different. You said you were having a problem with the word systemic and I offered two alternatives which would have made it quite clear. I explained that systemic racism requires the power to impose that racism on others. A racist without the ability to impose that racism on others through an institution is merely racist. To quote a line from Shawshank Redemption, “How can you be so obtuse?”

                    21. Bill – if Sowell doesn’t think systemic racism exists, do you think you have a better handle on racism than he does?

                    22. “Sowell plays to his base, he says what they want him to say.”

                      Enigma,That is an insult to Sowell. He doesn’t play to anyone’s base. He researches things until he finds answers or explanations to explain what is happening. Sowell was a Marxist. He even wrote a book on Marxism and I think he did his PhD paper on Marxism. He promoted Marxism until he found the numbers didn’t work.

                      He takes the raw numbers and uses them to promote his ideas. He doesn’t play to his base. His base wandered into his space and were convinced by the numbers and his explanation. They follow him and stayed, not the other way around.

                    23. Bill – so you are the only black man in America who speaks truth to power. BTW, I saw Nick Cannon caved like a wet sack.

                    24. I make no such claim, in fact I spesk/write much more to the general populace, those in power aren’t listening. I also argue my points of view on this board where most share a different view; it hones my arguments and gives me lots to write about.
                      I am vaguely aware of Nick Cannon allegedly making anti-Semetic statements, refusing to retract them, being dropped by his employer and scheduling a trip to Israel to learn something I guess. I don’t know what he said or whether the action taken against him was justified? I always skipped past his show when channel surfing, most celebrity activists don’t impress me, especially when their activism seems to be part-time.

                    25. I didn’t mean not to answer your question. Today, a black student would be welcome in the Young Republicans, much like the Log Cabin Republican are theoretically welcome in the Republican Party. Every four years, Republicans pass a homophobic platform and the Log Cabin Republicans have no meaningful presence or impact on policy or direction. They might as well not exist, much like your theoretical young black Republican.

                    26. Bill – I am afraid that a black student who joined the Young Republicans would be ostracized.

                    27. “Zip code pricing disproportionately causes minorities to pay more for multiple services”

                      I couldn’t help but oversee the above comment by Enigma. Attempting to relate premiums to risk is not racism. It is a less costly way of determining rates that take risk into account. That is what insurers do. You pay the insurer to take on your risk.

                      If there were a lot of nursing homes in the zip code one’s insurance might climb. Would you call that age discrimination or taking risk into account?

                      If one lives on the coast in Florida one is subject subject to loss from hurricanes. If the homeowners insurance premiums were higher than inland would you say the insurers were discriminating against the rich?

                      Dont’t worry I am not going to read through your block of text and correct everyone of your fallacies. It’s not necessary. This one correction enough is to show what follows.

                    28. “If I were to blame…”

                      Enigma’s continuous reliance on victimhood is sickening. Pick up a history book of people that migrated into this country and others around the globe and see what they were faced with. I think the most notable was the Jews that throughout history have been placed in ghettos, killed, tortured, forced from their homes, forbidden to pray, etc. The Jews have faced these things for thousands of years. Yet BLM along with blaming others blames the Jews and is an anti-Semitic orgainzation. The organization you love espouses hatred for a different race/ religion (called both). Maybe that is part of the problem.

                    29. “when the Great Migration brought Southern black people to Chicago looking to work in factories and find better employment”

                      the Great migration was due to what? wars in Europe that needed industrial workers to replace the white men who went off to conquer

                      they found the manpower in the black population

                      that war, I keep hearing people say, was to defeat fascism, etc etc. was that systemic racism to defeat fascism? hmmm

                      “steered into ghettos and inferior schools and blocked from union membership.”

                      true but misleading. yes at that time, racial discrimination in housing was illegal.
                      but, in spite of it. blacks found housing where they could, and where they could, was in “ghettos” that had been recently populated by eastern europeans. Heading east off 80-90 ont to the Chicago Skyway, take the Stony Island exist, what do you see, very close by Louis Farrakhan’s Mosque Maryam on Stony Island, what? A byzantine dome. who built this byzantine dome? yes, eastern european immigrants, who lived there before the Great Migration. So this is as much an “affordable housing” problem as it was a race issue.

                      as for the unions, Chicago had a high level of unionization, and I find it very hard to blame the white workers for excluding blacks. the unions would never have got off the ground if they hadn’t. This was in the turn of the century up to the 30s and 40s. Should the workers have cancelled their own efforts at organizing, in the name of racial equality? oh my how that would have pleased management. Seriously, this doesnt take much imagination to understand. I object to blaming union workers as an example of “white systemic racism” that is really out of context. Like a lot of what you say.

                      and understand this Enigma: this is so many decades later, it’s all just excuses now. just excuses. blaming the other guy for failure. that’s all it is.

                    30. black mayor Lori Lightfoot was a partner in the big corporate law firm Mayer Brown.
                      She’s got as much control over business as Rahm Emmanuel did.
                      You attribute too much to race which is purely economics, Enigma

                      I keep hearing my Republican friends saying BLM is “avowedly Marxist.”

                      Personally, I doubt it very much. If they were Marxists, would they not be saying “WORKERS LIVES MATTER?”

                      instead, actually, BLM is working as a tool, a pawn, a useful idiot, of global capitalism, which wants to break down national borders everywhere, as unwanted barriers to free flow of capital and labor, and to do that, they want to destroy “populism” and what remains of the Westphalian order. And to do that– one simple goal is at hand– GET TRUMP. That is the billionaire agenda and BLM serves it like the pawns and hirelings they are.

                      Hell, if workers in America were smart– they would quit gaslighting white people, and put some of the supposed Marxist insight to work!

                    31. the governor of Illinois a Democrat named Pritzker. is himself from a billionaire family,. not sure his personal status

                      you can bet that the Democrat party is lock stock and barrel wholly owned by global finance in Illinois

                      right now they are drooling at a federal bailout, but with Trump in POTUS and Republican edge in Senate, they wont get it

                      SO THE BILLIONAIRES WHO HAVE A LOT INVESTED IN ILLINOIS NEED TO GET RID OF TRUMP

                      so they can stick the bill for their failures on the US TAXPAYER!

                      there are some very strong regional dynamics which are plain as day but don’t wait for the TV news to explain a darn thing worth knowing!

                      Chinese have a word called “guanxi” which vaguely means network, but it implies strong social obligations

                      there is a major GUANXI between Illinois and Chicago Democrat parties and major FINANCIAL INTERESTS

                      this explains the entire period of Chicago’s political history since the feds broke the power of the “OUTFIT” crime bosses in Chicago around 1990

                      Corporations took over– pretty much just like how they explained Las Vegas at the end of the movie Casino– if you saw it you may remember the postlude — which by the way, the movie was about the Chicago Outfit’s skimming operation of Las Vegas under Tony The Ant Spilotro. but i digress.

                    32. I’ll define systemic racism

                      A system where one race gets benefits and the other race or races, dont.

                      Right now? SYSTEMIC RACISM IS AGAINST WHITES. and if its in favor of anybody, it’s in favor of BLACKS.

                      BLM being allowed to riot in public when whitey can’t have more than 10 people in one place is the obvious current case in point.

                      George Floyd getting 3 massive funerals with tens of thousands of attendees is a case in point

                      but an old white guy dies and he can only have ten.

                      How’s that grip ya for systemic racism? Let’s talk about it.

                      Who’s paying for all the jails, with the free food and housing and health care?
                      who’s paying for all the welfare?
                      Who’s paying for all the affirmative action, that benefits blacks?

                      Well, taxpayers, and consumers. Some decent law abiding and productive black folks but not mostly.
                      That’s right. Not mostly blacks, mostly not-blacks.
                      But the ones who get most of the free stuff– blacks.
                      Asians? Ha, hardly. They get the shaft on affirmative action and college admissions
                      Hispanics? a pretty diverse linguistic group entailing one degree of indian or white ancestry– but sometimes black
                      How is it obvious that one is better off checking the box as “BLACK” rather than hispanic, if you are say Cuban black or Dominican?
                      It’s obvious to anybody who has been through the racket of college admissions or big corporate HR departments–
                      BLACK is the prefered and privileged miinority in America.

                      For this they tell us we are racist and have to give up more. Bow down before your masters! Things are like one of R. Crumb’s old racist comics come to life before our eyes.

                      SO let’s have this conversation. I have my view: BLACK IS THE PRIVILEGED RACE IN AMERICA
                      The rest of us have to shut up about it or corporate will fire us; in the street if we say “all lives matter” then a black thug may murder us

                      like they did this young white mom

                      https://www.the-sun.com/news/1125847/mom-jessica-doty-whitaker-shot-dead-black-lives-matter-argument/

                      “A YOUNG mom was shot dead in Indianapolis in front of her fiancé after an argument about the Black Lives Matter movement.

                      Jessica Doty Whitaker was walking with her partner Jose Ramirez and two friends at 3am on July 5 when they came across four men and a woman and an argument broke out.

                      The groups clashed over language and the Black Lives Matter movement, WTHR reported.

                      “I’ll never probably ever get that image out of my head of what happened,” Ramirez told the local news station.

                      According to Ramirez, the groups got into a racially charged argument, and one man pulled out a gun, and so Ramirez did too.

                      One article, published by the Daily Wire, reported that Doty Whitaker had said “all lives matter” to the group, who allegedly were supporters of the BLM movement.

                      According to Jessica’s family, the shooting started with an argument over Black Lives Matter and language

                      “The Daily Wire spoke to Mr. Doty [Doty Whitaker’s father] to confirm,” the article reads.

                      “‘Yes that is accurate,’ Doty said when asked if his daughter said ‘all lives matter’ during the argument about BLM.”

                      Following the argument, the groups managed to talk things over and both parties walked away.

                      But minutes later, shots rang out along Canal Court.

                      “I was actually holding her when it happened,” Ramirez said. “She just fell. I turned around, and I opened fire too. But that’s just a reaction. I didn’t see nobody. Hopefully, it didn’t hit nobody.”

                      He told Fox59: “It [the beef, the argument] was squashed and they went up the hill and left we thought, but they were sitting on St. Claire waiting for us to come under the bridge and that’s when she got shot.”

                      Doty Whitaker, a home health nurse, was taken to hospital where she died.”

                    33. No, Enigma, there are not any explicitly whites only groups on American campuses.
                      Prove to me one which exists. Show me the organization and proof of the exclusionary rule.

                      White only by accident does not count. I don’t care about the chess club. Nor unofficial informal groups.

                      Show me the formal group with university recognition that is whites only. Prove that even one exists. They dont.

                      Personally, I think that’s a violation of the right to free speech & associate freely, but we know nobody cares about that where whitey is concerned.

                      by the way the last university to forbid interracial dating was Bob Jones U. back in 2000.. yeah, 20 years ago

                      https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/marchweb-only/53.0.html

                      that was AFTER the IRS attacked their 501c3 status.

                      Some kind of systemic racism, huh? said they weren’t allowed recognition as a school if they kept it.

                      seems like the racism if it exists, ask me, is aimed AT white people, not in favor of them.

                      of course, people understand this, it’s just polite to lie about it.

                    34. hey prarie that was interesting. thank you. yes, very interesting. i watched it for almost 15 minutes.

                      say, why don’t intelligent black men like that ever show up on tv? why i have never seen such voices on tweeter?

                      gee, maybe it’s the billionaires who own the tv who want the most crazy radical stuff to be the tip of the spear right now.

                      why? well, because, it’s not about any sort of racial equality stuff for the billionaires who fund it, they are ginning this up as a planned destabilization campaign to get rid of trump, and, transform America into a one party state with no middle class, which can never threaten billionaire global interests again.

                      but hey in the meantime the streets are not safe so all that intelligent moderate black man stuff is kind of besides the point

                      I mean it doesnt take great genius to understand that Affirmative actions programs have been at work in major metros hiring large numbers of black cops for decades.

                      the pat notion that “cops are racist” was fatuous & stupid from the beginning. but nobody with any pull — in Democrat party at least — seems to want to state the obvious.
                      and if those guys were Democrats, well, obviously they are not going to be given the mic on any kind of show besides this.

                      which although it was interesting, I sense it does not have much reach

                2. Your referencing events from 1921 and a century ago?

                  You haven’t got him on his favorite subject.

                  The Ocoee massacre is now in the Florida state curriculum. A bunch of thugs went on an arson rampage in a village in Orange County, Fl on 2-3 November 1920. There were 82 black households in the village, holding 255 people. About 20 houses, a church, and a fraternal lodge were burned down and a local black grandee was kidnapped and hanged. An indeterminate number of people were killed. Some contemporaneous sources say six, some eight, and some about 30.

                  Pretty gruesome. Remember the MOVE siege in Philadelphia in 1985? About 60 people lost their homes. Remember the Liberty City riots in 1980? About 18 people were killed, 10 black and 8 white. These sorts of things are the ugliest side of social life in this country. Some of them make it into the curriculum, and some of them do not.

                  1. why go so far back ? why always blame whitey? we know who really hates blacks….
                    BLACK MURDERERS WHO KILL THE MOST YEAR AFTER YEAR

                    remember july 4 2020 weekend in Chicago?
                    how about the next weekend?

                    they call it CHIRAQ for a reason

                    overwhelming majority of victims and perps, black
                    black mayor, black chief of police

                    https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-shootings-this-weekend-violence-how-many-shot-in/6314582/

                    “CHICAGO (WLS) — Weekends in Chicago have been plagued by violence this summer.

                    Chicago police said 64 people were shot, 11 fatally, between 6:00 p.m. Friday and 11:59 p.m. Sunday. That follows a deadly weekend over the 4th of July when 87 people were shot. The weekend before that, there were 63 shooting victims.

                    “I’ve been assessing and reassessing everything the Chicago Police Department has done,” said CPD Supt. Daivd Brown. “Just imagine starting a new job and having to figure out historical violent crime in about 10 weeks.”

                    Six teenagers were wounded in separate shootings between Friday and Monday morning, including 15-year-old Terrance Malden, who was fatally shot Friday in Jeffery Manor on the South Side.

                    Statistics from the department attest to the magnitude of the violence; every weekend for the past month there have been at least 63 people shot and at least 11 people killed.”

                    DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS.

                    HISPANIC ALDERMAN LOPEZ DREW HIS
                    TOLD LORI LIGHTFOOT “CHECK YOUR EFFING ATTITUDE”

                    ““We can’t expect our police, and I don’t fault them at all, to be able to control this,” he said. “Half our neighborhoods are already obliterated. It’s too late.”

                    Lopez said he feared looters would eventually start targeting homes after ransacking businesses throughout the city.

                    “Once they’re done looting and rioting and whatever’s going to happen tonight, God help us, what happens when they start going after residents? Going into the neighborhoods? Once they start trying to break down people’s doors, if they think they’ve got something,” he said.

                    “We know that people are here to antagonize and incite, and you’ve got them all pumped tonight, today. They’re not going to go to bed at 8 o’clock. They’re going to turn their focus on the neighborhoods. I’ve got gang-bangers with AK-47s walking around right now, just waiting to settle some scores. What are we going to do, and what do we tell residents, other than good faith people stand up? It’s not going to be enough,” Lopez added.”

                    HERE’S THE REAL RACISM IN AMERICA: CODDLING BLACK CRIME!
                    ARE THEY A SPECIAL BRAND OF OFFENDER WHO ALWAYS GETS AN EXCUSE FOR MISCHIEF?
                    INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!

                    https://chicago.cbslocal.com/ 2020/06/08/mayor-lori-lightfoot-and-ald-raymond-lopez-have-foul-mouthed-argument-over-looting-youre-100-full-of-s-mayor-says/

              5. After WWII, the US was the only industrialized economy working at full capacity. Huge advantage for the US and that greatly contributed to a couple generations of great prosperity in the US for the middle class. The GI Bill contributed to that, but let’s not pretend that it was the most important reason. Especially since the majority of prosperous jobs during that period did NOT require a college degree.

                1. After WWII, the US was the only industrialized economy working at full capacity. Huge advantage for the US and that greatly contributed to a couple generations of great prosperity in the US for the middle class.

                  Rubbish. See the Maddison Project’s data on real product per capita in a menu of European countries. Look at the net growth in that figure in Germany from 1867 to 1913 and from 1913 to 1959. Two 46 year periods, and the mean rate of improvement in gross domestic product per capita is the same. Germany by 1959 had fully recovered from the injuries done by the 1st World War, by the mess that was the Weimar Republic, by the Depression, and by the 2d World War. France, Italy, Britain, and Japan had likewise fully recovered by that year or by some earlier year. These places were less affluent than the United States in 1959; with the exception of Britain, they were less affluent than the United States in 1913 as well. We’ve been ahead a long time.

                  1. Not sure what your argument is here. Are you suggesting that the US didn’t have an industrial advantage over Germany and Japan during the 2 generations after WWII? I don’t doubt that the advantage declined over time, just to be clear.

                    1. I’m suggesting it had no advantage that hadn’t been present for a good while. Look at the long term trend in growth of per capita product in these countries.during the 50 year period antedating the 1st World War, then look at the period after 1913. Tremendous disruption and destruction of physical capital was manifest in 1914-22, 1939-33, and 1939-45. However, you can tell from the trend lines that 18 of 20 OECD countries had fully recovered by 1962, and the majority by 1954 (the two others were Switzerland and Canada, which had been unusually dynamic prior to World War I and only returned to the trend line in 1968 and 1876, respectively). You didn’t have ‘two generations’ worth of war reconstruction. War reconstruction was largely complete by 1960.

                      Now, it is true that the US was more productive and affluent than other OECD countries. That was the case in 1913 as well, Australia excepted (and Britain excepted by some measures). That’s pretty much the case today with that same set of 20 countries. There are three countries among them which have higher GDP per capita that we do, but this data requires footnoting. In one case (Ireland), the figure is misleading as many companies book revenue in Irish subsidiaries for tax reasons. Personal consumption per capita in Ireland is actually similar to what it is in Britain (and notably below that of the United States). In another case (Norway), just shy of 20% of their domestic product consists of fuel and mineral exports; in a typical affluent country, this sort of natural resource bonanza will account for 1% of domestic product, if that. Switzerland is the only one of that set of 20 countries which is more productive and affluent than the United States in a secure way (although some people would dispute that given Switzerland’s hypertrophied financial sector).

                      Now, if you look at the ratio of the per capita product of a given country to that of the United States in 1913 and re-examine 40 years later, you’ll see that the US was on balance more economically dynamic than 16 of the other 19 countries in the set during those 40 years. However, most of the other 19 countries had by 1970 returned to the relative position they’d occupied in 1913. It took less than a generation, not ‘two generations’ to erase that disparity.

          2. ‘Meaningful dialogue’ about what? The premises are nonsense and the effects destructive. You’ve hardly attempted to demonstrate otherwise.

            1. if we are going to have a meaningful dialogue about white privilege, aimed at whites as a group, to justify pushing us down some more,
              I want to have a meaningful dialogue about black privilege, and then I will use that to justify some other things.
              anybody want to hear some ideas? more planned parenthood clinics in ghetto, right at the top of the list– Im 100% with Democrats on that one!

              how’s that for a meaningful dialogue?

              I feel some free speech boiling up inside of me today. lawful exercise of my constitutional right to protest black crime wave, coming your way!

              how about this for black privilege:

              WHITES CANT GATHER IN GROUPS DUE TO COVID, MORE THAN 10 PEOPLE
              BLACKS: CAN RIOT IN THE STREETS IN NUMBERS UP TO TEN THOUSAND– covid rules don’t apply to blacks????!

              seems like a denial of “equal protection of laws” to me!

              1. Mr Kurtz – just to make this more interesting, Gov. Whitless is going to require all health care professionals to take race relations because the CCP Virus attacks blacks more that whites. Of course, she is not going to take an elder abuse program for putting elderly CCP Virus patients into nursing homes where they killed other people.

                1. Witmer stinks. Western Michigan is enslaved to BLM thugs running wild in places like Detroit and Benton Harbor.
                  The rest of Michigan looks on agape, unbelieving that things have come so fast. not ready to fight back yet but thinking about it.

                  That’s about the size of it.

                  Encircle Benton Harbor and Detroit and you would not only contain BLM you would contain a lot of the coronovirus too.

                  Here’s an obvious fact we can “read between the lines” of headlines like “COVID having a disparate impact on communities of color…”

                  black people have it at a much higher rate than white people.

                  and yet BLM was intent on spreading it to us all./

                  This “coronavirus” thing was politicized and now we have a massive public debt to pay for the containment measures which were totally BOTCHED by BLM RIOTS and all their appeasers and enablers. White folks will pay the price. the ones in the nursing homes first, and then the rest of us, in taxes to repay the massive public debt that is totally out of control.

                  Because why? “right to protest” a special right during COVID that only BLACKS and BLM people had and the rest of us were “cancelled”

      1. My guess is the rank and file are well-meaning; the leadership — by which you judge any organization — are avowed Marxists so unworthy of serious discussion. I will engage on the intentions of the membership about the universally accepted NOTION that all black lives matter like all lives in general matter. The question really is to whom all this mattering matters.

        1. You’ve found yourself a reason to make them unworthy of discussion which is your right but unworthy of you intellectually. The leadership, about which you presumable know little and “avowed Marxists” is quite different than the quotes I’ve read. Are their ties to communists countries more or less than your President?

          1. enigma – they are, by their own words, “well-trained Marxists” and I just found out that one of them teaches at Prescott College here in Arizona. Now, she is sheltering-in-place, while the goon squad goes out and does the heavy lifting (by this I mean killing).

          2. When you can’t dazzle them with brilliance,
            Baffle them with BS.
            Your pseudo intellectualism may deem clever in your own mind, but is ridiculous to any reasonable discussion.

          3. “The leadership, about which you presumable know little and “avowed Marxists” is quite different than the quotes I’ve read.”

            Right from her own mouth at the 3:27 mark, Enigma.

            BLM founder admits they are trained Marxists

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdpIIiBe7Wc

            Apparently you know very little about BLM’s leadership.

            Or you are pretending not to know.

            The founders of BLM could care less about black lives. That’s just the divisive societal wedge issue they chose to forward their real agenda.

            Which has nothing to do with race or equality, and everything to do with replacing the existing Democratic-Republic with Marxism/Communism.

            1. Trained and avowed are different things, I’ve been trained in first aid but I’m not a doctor. What does “avowed Marxist” mean to you anyway? Especially given the current President’s financial dependence on Russia, unless you consider his son a liar. (Well that part’s true)

              1. I’m a trained Marxist too. I went to university in the United States, after all.

                But, Im not an avowed one.

                1. As far as I’m aware, one of the founders claimed to be a “trained Marxist.” Avowed was a moniker given by others, but let’s imagine avowed was the truth. What would that mean to you?

        2. My guess is the rank and file are well-meaning; the leadership

          They aren’t. I see what the rank-and-file say on my Fakebook wall. Nearly all of them are posturing ninnies. The one exception is a cousin of mine who has a history with law enforcement. He’s frankly awful.

          1. BLM stink from bottom all the way to top. And all the fexes impacted in between one end to the other.

            Mespo was just being nice.

      2. “We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

        We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”

        – BLM

        As they are well aware, LBJ’s Great Society already beat them to the punch on that reality. His Welfare State that rewarded unmarried black mothers more than married black mothers, destroyed the American black “nuclear family structure” decades ago. And in so doing, created the virtual Democratic Party plantation full of lever pulling Democrat vote slaves, that endures to this day.

        So LBJ was dead on when he said; “I’ll have those n*****rs voting Democratic for the next 200 years.”, regarding his real intention for the “Great Society” programs.

        Then there’s the admission by one of the founders that the 3 founders are “trained Marxists”.

        So that the “more accurate picture of BLM”. Whom Antifa is using as a tool to further their Marxist/Fascist agenda.

      3. Enigma. So a “more accurate picture” of BLM is the elimination of the black nuclear family.

        That’s bad enough. But Spivey fails to mention that the 3 founders are self-admitted Marxists.

        Are you a Marxist?

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