Leading Curator Resigns After Being Denounced As A “White Supremacist” For Refusing To Bar Acquisitions By White Artists

{{PD-US}}We have been discussing the campaigns to remove faculty who voice dissenting views on the current protests or underlying issues.  The art world has now been swept into this disturbing trend where critics label any opposing views as racist and demand the removal of anyone who questions their demands.  That was the case with Gary Garrels the long-standing senior curator of painting and sculpture at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art (SFMOMA). He resigned after museum employees circulated a petition that accused him of racism because he simply stated that, while seeking to diversify the artists featured in the collection, he would not bar acquisitions of artists simply because they are white.  That would not only decouple ignore the inherent value of the art but apply a racial discriminatory rule.

The petition by Garrels’ colleagues and staff details statements that would seem entirely appropriate, if not essential, for an institution committed to featuring the greatest artistic works.  The petition declares “Gary’s removal from SFMOMA is non-negotiable. Considering his lengthy tenure at this institution, we ask just how long have his toxic white supremacist beliefs regarding race and equity directed his position curating the content of the museum?”  Given that hyperbolic language, I assumed that the petition would reveal a virtual Bull Connor of the art world. Instead, the petition is headed by the what the signers indicate is the most offensive example of such “white supremacist beliefs”:


According to artnet.com, he also said previously that to bar artists based solely on the fact that they are white would constitute “reverse discrimination.”  Forced to resign, Garrels apologized for any insult that he may have caused but reaffirmed that “I do not believe I have ever said that it is important to collect the art of white men. I have said that it is important that we do not exclude consideration of the art of white men.”

If that is truly the full extent of Garrels’ offensive comments, the only thing more surprising than the language of the petition was its obvious success.  We previously discussed quotas imposed for the gender of subjects shown in art as raising the same underlying controversy.

Garrels was criticized for accepting major pieces of art because the artists were not minorities. This includes an agreement with Gap founders Donald and Doris Fisher to take on their 1,100-piece collection of modern art.

I am less concerned about the ultimate merits as I am with the absence of support for these allegations against someone who has served the museum and the art community for so many years.  Rather than offer specifics, Garrel was attacked as a white supremacist and racist.  As has become a common feature in such attacks, his arguments were dismissed as “dog whistles” for other racists.  The campaign was successful as have many such campaigns on college campuses.

324 thoughts on “Leading Curator Resigns After Being Denounced As A “White Supremacist” For Refusing To Bar Acquisitions By White Artists”


    really– lol– not making it up; wow,

  2. I noticed that the petition had a number of names and appeared to be gaining signatures as I watched. Depressing. On the other hand, I figured that the people signing it were mostly self-loathing white people and mostly artists who haven’t figured out what it means for them, which was less depressing. I decided I don’t really care too much. Most modern art are intentionally trashy pieces, trying to demonstrate, ironically, and for the millionth time, that the aesthetic expections for art are inherently illegitimate. White modern artists suck as much as modern artists of other ethnicities. A mustache on the Mona Lisa is art for people who don’t have the chops to paint anything like the Mona Lisa themselves.

    1. were mostly self-loathing white people and mostly artists who haven’t figured out what it means for them, which was less depressing.

      Actually, they almost certainly think well of themselves. It’s you and me they loathe.

      1. oh, they loathe their ancestors and their own white skin alright. they are twisted.

        but i get your point absurd

          1. Hey, Johnny, you and I finally agree! And you know where that ended up!

            Figure out who your tribe is and get with the program

            1. Nope. Tribes can’t get it done this time around, Kurtz. Too old paradigm.

              1. the tribe called “LATINOS’ seems to be doing pretty well in the U of California university system. now they’re a plurality

                can U of C stop busing white peoples’ bllz now?

                I doubt they will


                white liberals: when we are finally a minority, do you think, that the new non-white majorities will

                a) be nice and thank us for letting them demographically replace us, and maybe cancel further affirmative action? or

                b) keep on pushing for more advantages? ie, leverage increase numbers, for more power, to take more stuff?

                Don’t bother answering me. I know what I think. And don’t bother telling lies to your friends.
                The question is, what do YOU think, in the privacy of your own mind?

                – and how will that affect your willingness to keep on kissing the backsides of BLM and the “Latino advocates” liike AOC?

  3. I visit this blog to sharpen my legal skills and challenge my thinking as a lawyer. I do get that but the entertainment that the trolls provide: priceless

    Thank you Seth Warner for giving us all hope that our problems are nothing compared to yours


      T Braunstein is the same dirty trickster stalking the threads below.

      1. dont know who he is but his name in german is brownstone which reminds me

        you been dancin with Mr Brownstone

  4. Americans need to embrace the only path possible for our country. It is our destiny and our hope

    Manifesto of the Communist Party

    A spectre is haunting Europe — the spectre of communism. All the powers of old Europe have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Pope and Tsar, Metternich and Guizot, French Radicals and German police-spies.

    Where is the party in opposition that has not been decried as communistic by its opponents in power? Where is the opposition that has not hurled back the branding reproach of communism, against the more advanced opposition parties, as well as against its reactionary adversaries?

    Two things result from this fact:

    I. Communism is already acknowledged by all European powers to be itself a power.

    II. It is high time that Communists should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, their tendencies, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Communism with a manifesto of the party itself.

    To this end, Communists of various nationalities have assembled in London and sketched the following manifesto, to be published in the English, French, German, Italian, Flemish and Danish languages.


      This is NOT Seth Warner but the dirty trickster Professor Turley claims he’s not aware of.

      1. No one reads your sh!t …. few give a shit about you so we laugh our asses off at you

      2. Paint Chips, why should Professor Turley be concerned? You have used multiple aliases and multiple names on the same thread. You are using this blog for free and if you don’t like it you can leave. You don’t even appreciate his ability to tuck his ideology away when explaining the law.

        The Professor is providing a valuable service. You are not.

        1. Alan, I’m starting to think you’re related to the dirty trickster in question. You’ve always been abusive to the point of being problematic.

          1. Paint Chips, we have gone through this before. I use one name and only one name. There is no need to use any aliases if one is consistent in their opinions. Why would I need an alias to insult you when all one has to do is put logic in your face or put you in the position of those you insult on a daily basis. It makes no sense.


      This is NOT Seth Warner. It’s a Republican political stooge having a hussy fit.

      1. Wellllll, it sure is funny seeing you running around like a screaming blithering idiot (but I’m repeating myself) so there is that to consider


    Total Cases by State/Territory

    State/Territory Total Cases Confirmed Probable




    New York City*

    New York*

    New Jersey






    North Carolina







    South Carolina


















    CDC | Updated: Jul 15 2020 5:45PM

    1. Skipping the bull NY leads the nation in the number of cases per million at 22,118
      Florida has a little more than half of that number and some originated in NY 14,052

      Can you explain why the difference is so great? Don’t you think DeBlasio and Cuomo were in part responsible for the vastly greater number of infections and deaths in those two areas?

  6. OMG, an article about the Orwellian take over of the country. Propaganda masters, paid shills, sent to change the subject to that of the Virus by commenting.
    Can’t believe how short the attention span is with people. We are doomed as a nation.

    1. Michael Esposito is the ‘Anonymous’ who posted death stats last night. He wants to keep the discussion focused on only deaths because that way the statistics look better for Trump.

      1. girlfriend, this virus is the bomb! I get to use my mask, gloves, soap and scrubs for 2 reasons:

        clean at home
        party at the bath houses in West Hollywood

        woo hoo! Don’t hate me


          The dirty trickster behind this post was originally known as ‘Estovir’. He’s an anti-abortion activist determined to control this blog. Estovir now accounts for about half the posts on this site. And he goes ballistic when anyone tries to challenge his dominance.

          Estovir, is the reason this blog now looks like its aimed towards really stupid people.

      2. Paint Chips, in the case of Covid which is keeping many people under house arrest NY, Massachusettes and New Jersey account for 42% of the deaths… all blue states. The other 47 (or as Obama would say the other 54) have the rest.

        Can you explain how 3 states can be responsible for so many deaths?

        In fact the 7 top states in the number of deaths are all blue states. Can you explain that?

        Can you explain why you never talk about the 64 shot and 13 killed in Chicago this past weekend? Chicago is blue and has been blue for over 50 years.

  7. This is a redux HUAC and Joe McCarthy.
    Read about it. Unfortunately the rampant doyens of destruction won’t read the history.

    1. LPS – Let’s all wear paper bags over our heads with cut out eye and nose and mouth areas.

      That way the facial recognition machines that check you via the measurements between your eyes and ears (they do not need any other part of your face to ID you, except your eyes) can no longer recognize you, and you will still get your mask on. 😉😉😉

      1. Joe Biden will be noticeable tho’. His wife will be leading him by the hand out of his basement while anarchists will be blazing his trail burning down businesses and killing citizens who do not bend a knee

        Lucky for most Americans they have their supply of AR-15 rilfes. Didn’t you get yours? Good luck finding them now!



        Anonymous, is Anonymous because he is the same person as Michael Esposito. He’s just a Trumper seeking to minimize the issue.

        1. I am fully rested from last night because my boyfriend got me a good stache of meth. let’s party girlfriends!!!!

          1. REGARDING ABOVE

            That is NOT Seth Warner.

            This is the same person who posts under ‘Orwellian’, Michael Esposito and Anonymous and ‘Estovir’

            This is one of those creepy gays who frequents Turleys site.

            1. Seth, It is not an issue that you are a homersexual. My friend married a woman and they are very happy.
              You should not be ashamed of being gay. Selfloathing is not very healthy.

              1. REGARDING ABOVE:

                That’s the creepy dirty trickster known as ‘Estovir’, Michael Esposito, Anti Orwellian, Pblinca, MoFo and Anonymous (with black handle).

                1. Not this Anonymous, Seth. I find it to be utterly despicable. I’m a white-hat Anonymous, in spite of what some people think.

          2. That’s not nice. Why target an individual commenter? Argue with Seth’s points, not his person.

          3. Seth, you look great in pink. And you are black too! Good to see a gay black man on this blog working her stuff

          1. and who are you cunaeus? another sock puppet troll using anonymous names thinking you can pull something on this blog when I am king! This is m y space you fake sock puppet!!! Get out of here. I’m the biggest dog on this lot

    2. It isn’t. McCarthy and the committee were injurious to people who held government jobs and security clearances (or aspired to) and also to people working in Hollywood. Per Ronald Radosh, the committee didn’t subpoena people who had not been identified as Communist Party members by at least two previous witnesses. McCarthy was much more scattershot and much of what he had to say was cynical BS. There was a case to be made against a number of the supposed victims (Owen Lattimore, Robert Oppenheimer, John Stewart Service, and Annie Lee Moss).

  8. OT: How the hell am I suppose to do my laundry!!!?

    They are taking quarters off the scene, and claiming their is a shortage.

    Well, guess what!?

    In Los Angeles, CA, a lot of laundry mats are still quarter only.

    The apartment is coin only. Even the outrageously expensive units, updates units, do not have their own washer and dryers.

    I went to the bank, denied. I went to another bank, denied.

    I finally got 10 bucks of quarters, so what is that….2 loads at 2.00 a wash and 1.75 a dry.


  9. Death Is Not The Only Worry With Covid 19

    Organ And Brain Damage A Real Possibility

    Now, more than 300 studies from around the world have found a prevalence of neurological abnormalities in Covid-19 patients, including mild symptoms like headaches, loss of smell (anosmia) and tingling sensations (arcoparasthesia), up to more severe outcomes such as aphasia (inability to speak), strokes and seizures. This is in addition to recent findings that the virus, which has been largely considered to be a respiratory disease, can also wreak havoc on the kidneys, liver, heart, and just about every organ system in the body.

    Technicians research Covid-19 at a lab in Buenos Aires, Argentina; more than 300 studies have found neurological abnormalities in Covid-19 patients (Credit: Getty Images)
    Technicians research Covid-19 at a lab in Buenos Aires, Argentina; more than 300 studies have found neurological abnormalities in Covid-19 patients (Credit: Getty Images)

    “We don’t know yet if the encephalopathy is more severe with Covid-19 than with other viruses, but I can tell you we’ve been seeing quite a lot of it,” says neurologist Elissa Fory of the Henry Ford Foundation in Detroit, Michigan. “As the number of cases increases, you will start to see not only the common manifestations but also the uncommon manifestations – and we’re seeing them all at once, which is not something any of us have encountered in our lifetimes.

    Estimates of exact prevalence vary, but it seems that roughly 50% of patients diagnosed with Sars-CoV-2 – the virus responsible for causing the illness Covid-19 – have experienced neurological problems.

    Edited From: “How Covid 19 Can Damage The Brain”

    BBC 6/22/ 20

    TWO COMMENTS DOWN some clown posting under ‘Anonymous’ shares death stats for Covid 19 which look relatively benign. The message seems to be that death from the virus is fairly rare, therefore one needn’t take the threat too seriously.

    What are anonymous clown isn’t telling us is that Covid patients face a chance of permanent damage to their lungs, brains or other organs. The idea that this virus is no worse than a garden variety flu is aggressively ignorant. People promoting this message are dangerously stupid!

          1. ” tells us that even a mild case of the virus is a one – two week ordeal.”

            Where does it say that?

            Do you know what the words “might” and “may” mean?

    1. “Edited From….BBC 6/22/ 20”

      Seth, that is ancient information. it was published on June 22nd. Besides you are using the BBC and they are not scientists. As I have stated many times, we need to keep current in our science and the JAMA article below is unequivocal and rock solid. It is time we concede that this virus affects very few people and besides the medical scientists are reporting that they use the anti-malarial drugs as their first choice for treatment. We really need to go by the book


        That is NOT ‘By The Book’

        It is the same dirty trickster who posts under Orwellian, Anonymous, Michael Esposito and Estovir.

    2. China’s Commie party covered up the Sars Cov 2 virus and let it exlode upon the world, for their own cynical strategies


      and yet Democrats keep blaming Trump! Amazing. Why would they abandon their patriotism, be part of the plot to destabilize America, demoralize us, and turn us on our lawful leadership and help perpetrate the CCP cover-up?

      are they part of the “Wumao army” now?

      1. Let’s just say this white man’s delirium is true. The Chinese couldn’t have picked a more cooperative partner to workt their conspiracy than the guy who after a couple tardy attempts at travel bans made every single wrong decision possible…, and then decided to make every one of those wrong decisions *again*.

        1. You left out Trump going down on Xi in public in the month of January after it doing it privately at the meeting Bolton told us about.

  10. Solely for the benefit of Paint Chips.

    Biden 47%
    Trump’s 44%
    Alt candidate 5%
    Undecided 4%


    If this is a legitimate medical report, why is the poster ‘Anonymous’..??

      1. Karen, that’s cool. But why would one need to stay anonymous, to post a science article?

        1. None of us are anonymous really. Everyone knows me and I troll just for the boys

          1. REGARDING ABOVE

            That is NOT Seth Warner.

            That is a dirty trickster trying to prevent any discussion that reflects badly on Trump. He’s having a hysterical hussy fit.

  12. We Interupt This Rightwing Bubble For Real News: ‘Covid 19 Infections Up In 41 States’!

    As the outbreak hits record levels in the United States, increasing in 41 states over the past two weeks, governors and mayors across the nation are scrambling to try to contain it, issuing new mask orders, limiting the size of gatherings and preparing for the worst.

    The total number of cases in the U.S. during the pandemic passed 3.5 million on Wednesday, according to a New York Times database. More than 65,000 U.S. cases were announced Tuesday, the nation’s second-highest daily total, and the seven-day average of new cases rose to 61,896, a new high.

    Many states are warily eyeing the recent explosion of infections across the Sun Belt, where some hard-hit cities were putting refrigerator trucks on standby as they anticipate running out of morgue space.

    Edited from: “With Cases Up In 41 States, Local Officials Scramble To Contain The Outbreak”

    This Evening’s New York Times

    1. Paint Chips, if you test more you will see more cases but the death rate isn’t rising. It is expected that there will be outbreaks. This is a virus that is quite infectious so one has to assume it can spread to everyone unless everyone remains in their homes permanently.

      Assuming no treatment or vaccines and a virus that doesn’t suddenly disappear for no reason: Eventually people have to get out of the house and they contract the virus unless they are immune to it for one reason or another. The flattened curve and the non flattened curve will have about the same numbers infected.

      The choice for most of the country without the treatments or vaccine is die in the home or live a normal life with a slight risk. The elderly and sick need to take serious precautions.

      The latest report I saw was that 30 children total (<15) have died from this virus. The flu killed ~190 children. Locking children up hinders their development, subjects them to abuse, increases suicide etc. Locking up a nation causes poverty which causes a lot more death.

      Right now Florida is said to be the epicenter. Florida with a larger population than NY has had many less deaths than were killed by Cuomo in the NY nursing homes.

      You are an hysteric and the NYT feeds off of that. The virus is not good but it is something you have to learn to live with unless a satisfactory vaccine and or satisfactory treatments can be produced in large scale.

      1. One thing it seems this disease lays bare is the hazards of the Standard American Diet…

        1. Only in the sense of being overweight or affecting one of the diseases mentioned by JAMA . I don’t think diet was mentioned in JAMA.

          I think illness and being old are the big risk factors.

        2. Rose, you’re correct. But it also lays bare the inadequacy of our healthcare system at a moment Trump intends to delete Obamacare.

            1. Mespo, that’s totally incorrect. Southern states typically lead the country in all bad health statistics. And most of them have Republican governors. In fact the Republican governor of Florida has done a particularly terrible job in managing the pandemic. Texas is also doing quite bad.

              1. ” In fact the Republican governor of Florida has done a particularly terrible job in managing the pandemic. Texas is also doing quite bad.”

                Can paint Chips prove that by the metrics? No.

                NY deaths per million 1,670
                FL deaths per million 210
                TX deaths per million 125

                Florida protected its nursing home population. NY killed its nursing home population.

                Tell us how Fl or TX has done a worse job than NY.

                Tell us your criteria for a state doing a bad job.

                1. Alan, WHAT ARE THE TRENDS?????

                  Florida, Texas and Arizona are trending big right now. But you’re stuck in April.

                  1. Paint Chips, are you a fool? You don’t even know what the trend means.

                    NY deaths 32,495

                    Florida deaths 4,521
                    Texas deaths 3,625
                    Arizona deaths 2,434

                    Can you explain why you think such a problem exists in these three states where two are larger than NY?

                    Can you explain why Florida had so few deaths in nursing homes compared to NY.

                    We hear day in and day out what a wonderful job Cuomo did in NY from the press, but he panicked, didn’t act efficiently to protect his citizens, killed thousands of nursing home patients through pure stupidity, had to rely on others to bail him out costing the entire country a lot of money when most of those things weren’t needed, and could have put the Covid+ patients into the Javits center or on the hospital ship,

                    Can you explain why you think Cuomo did a great job and the governors of the other states didn’t.

                    Cuomo actually killed people and the state passed a low granting immunity to those involved with killing off their senior population. Go ahead and explain why that happened and why such a law should have been passed.

                    1. What Allan doesn’t figure in to his screed is that deaths are a lagging indicator with Covid. IOW they don’t start adding up big until 14-21 days after the initial inundation of ICU’s.

                      Granted the therapeutics are improving since April, so NY’s death tolls probably won’t be touched, but let’s check back in with Florida, Texas and Arizona in 2-3 weeks re death toll.

                      As usual, Allan is a mixture of complete disingenuousness and sheer cluelessness and Fox News related gullibility.

                    2. “deaths are a lagging indicator with Covid”

                      Bug, why do you continue to make such a fool of yourself?

                      The death rate is one of the most important indicators. If there were no deaths we wouldn’t be talking about Covid even if twice as many patients developed the disease

                      At the peak NY was close to 2,000 deaths per day and at what appears to be the peak Florida is around 100 deaths per day and Texas less. That is around a 20X multiple of the comparitive death rate in NY. That is something a child can understand but one reliant on spellcheck (to prove another wrong) can’t. The improvement in theraputics isn’t the reason for such a difference. Chronic hospital over crowding, unsanitary mass transport and placing Covid + patients in nursing homes are a big part of the cause for NY and some other states to be such big outliers.

                      Your habit of lying and inaccuracy in your data is quite similar to Btb who in competition with a 7 year old would fail miserably.

                    3. Reading comprehension, Allan.

                      I didn’t say death rates weren’t a problem, I said they were lagging indicators. And that the true time to assess rates in Florida, Texas and Arizona won’t be for another 14-21 days because they are just experiencing ICU/hospital overrun as we speak.

                      Your problems with being a poor writer is not just in gramatical failure and poor understanding of what you read, it’s a thinking problem in general. You lack critical thinking skills and don’t have an ability to balance two ideas at the same time.

                    4. You screwed up as usual Bug. Your statement before my reply demonstrated that you were trying to use total infection rates as a measure of success. You bumbled and if any thought were placed on the actual numbers of that lagging indicator and then you compared the numbers to the NY numbers you would be wrong as well. The numbers will not demonstrate what you believe.

                      If however the vaccine doesn’t provide sufficient immunity or long term immunity then the death rate will likely tend towards equalization all over the nation with time unless sufficient medications can lessen the blow. However even with that equalization NY and some other blue states will still be outliers demonstrating more deaths because NY and some others handled things so poorly.

                      Remember if the death rate substantially kicks up in the southern states and Covid stays NY will likely be hit again. You should learn what you are talking about or go back to helping me by spellchecking my work. That is about all you are good for.

                    5. Aha…, it just struck me that Allan doewn’t understand what a “lagging indicator” is in relation indicators in general.

                      Lagging indicators can’t be predictive because they reflect established trend and therfore need data of an existing trend to establish themselves.

                      Now are there little tricks buried within lagging indicators that can be ‘hacked’ into prediction models? Absolutely.

                      But for sake of discussion at the most basic level (read: talking to Allan) true death rates from Covid start to appear about a month after hospital inundation. IOW, about 14-21 days from now in Florida, Texas and Arizona.

                    6. The small uptick in some death rates (now that three weeks have passed) could be the result of the “peaceful” protests and Trump rallies.
                      However, given the protesters were almost all under 65, I would expect the death rate among this group to be under 1% (if given HCQ+,Zn). A touch more from the Trump rallies. Older people have age related conditions which appear to be exacerbated by C19.
                      When some states re-opened 2 or 3 weeks ago a bump in cases was expected. Again, a small uptick. Not catastrophic. No hospitals overwhelmed. 99%+ survival 0-65. 99.999% survival age 0-19.
                      99.999% survival age 0-19 — Shouldn’t it be safe to send kids back to school? T-cell immunity is working in the robust immune system of the young.

                    7. The lagging indicator would be fine if the other variables stayed the same, but they didn’t. Instead of testing those that were suspected to have infection the tests today are checking the general population. That has caused the median age of those being tested to fall by 20-30 years causing the rate of infection to fall and the death rate to trend downward even more.

                      There are ways to check for these variables but one has to recognize that some of the testing is contact tracing where levels of infection may be higher and unknown ages might be involved. That is time consuming so by the time one gets the results it is likely the answer already exists in the more specific death rate.

                      It is entirely possible Florida and Texas will see significant rises in the death rate with the openings. That is to be expected but part of that rise is due to the inability of the human population to continue being careful trying to adhere to items I agree with. We also have to consider that the rioting and looting folk are not immune to the disease.

                      Take note that Florida and Texas both have hurricanes so the states have learned that too much of a false alarm environment creates a lackadaisical response from the population when a strong response is absolutely needed I don’t expect you to understand these things.

                      Stick to your spellchecker.

                    8. Hey Bug and Book,

                      You guys really did a great job trolling this column about radical leftist Democrat tyranny over ideas and academics, and making it into a complaint fest blaming Trump for covid!

                      I keep telling allan not to feed the trolls but he cant resist

                      Let’s find out more about where the Sars Cov 2 virus came from and why it really spread. Three letters will serve:” CCP


                      Simone Gao is hot

                    9. Old George: Three weeks hasn’t passed. Inundation is just happening now.

                    10. Kurtz: I know, right?

                      The true purpose of this thread was meant to be an AB manifesto or white separatist screed, i know. Silly me.

                    11. Kurtz used to pretend the covid virus was serious s..t but he’s back on the reservation after seeing his cult leader f..king it up so bad.

                      The troll here is JT with his endless chumming for Trumpsters and alt-right JOs in the middle of real crisis he’s trying to avoid.

                      Y’all freak out over Joy Reid, as if only leftist media figures f..k up, and as if you really cared about the 1st amendment. That’s how JT set’s it up and you are easy to predict and handle.

                    12. Oh, it’s deadly serious. As we have learned more, about the biology, and the social impacts, it’s obvious far more deadly than I anticipated it would be, back at the end of the Lunar New Year when we got the news. If not in mortality figures, then in secondary impacts.

                      But thanks for checking in Book

                      I also dont have any clue who Joy Reid is. Maybe i forgot her relevance or why you bring her up. I guess that’s what i get for not watching tv

                    13. Hey Book, remember when Kurtz predicted that Xi’s handling of Covid would take him down from within? I guess that prediction got painful when he realized that, not only could Trump do worse, he could exponentially do worse.

                      Time for some squirels and race war predictions I guess.

                    14. Buggy – Xi is welding people into their apts in Beijing and a couple of other major cities. Do NOT believe any statistics coming from the CCP. Everything is fake.

                    15. Hey Bug, I don’t remember your user name back when i speculated not predicted that Xi MIGHT not WOULD be brought down from within.

                      It was a valid speculation. There are cliques in the CCP. I detailed them at the time

                      What was your user name back then Bug?

                    16. What was your user name back then Bug?

                      Kurtz, the Bug has had a lot of aliases but his present name seems to fit him best. He is too embarrassed of his previous performances so he refused to remind me of his prior aliases and I suppose he will refuse you as well. Those that have only a spellcheck where the vertebrae should be are generally cowards.

                  1. When NY peaked it was killing close to 2,000 human lives a day and they were running to Florida and haven’t stopped.

                    The peak may have been reached in Texas and Florida in the vicinity of 100.

                    Can you explain why you don’t bother to comment on 2,000 deaths while you do on 100? Is it because you know your democrat governor was killing people and you don’t want to let on?

              2. Just pure made up nonsense by Seth and off point. Allan has the relevant data supra and, of course, it just puts more egg on Seth’s face. Sloppy propagandist, indeed.

              3. Hey bug, Carl Rowan wrote a book predicting race war, and Wapoo liked it so much they’ve got it on their website in front of the paywall.

                Gee, why would they put that in front of their paywall?

                Is it because nobody wants to read it, or, because people have liked it so much?

                The book is from many years ago and of course Rowan was black and I am not. But maybe he was on to something.


                google race war and you will get a multitude of hits. it’s been a concern all along it seems. now more so than ever, perhaps

                as black people are out there “peacefully protesting” along with the followers-on, looting, shooting, and arson
                and cops ordered to stand down by Democrat mayors and let it all happen

                yeah, apparently race war is a worry for a lot of Americans of both colors, but not you wiseguys! no, you must have it nice.

                heck the McCloskeys had it pretty nice until a mob broke down their fence and started shouting death threats at them. I guess nice is relative.

                1. I dug Rowan back in the day. Used to read his column regularly.

                  Just remember a few weeks back when trump incited a riot and paged the magats to the White House to counter the demonstrators. The magats didn’t listen. The skilled among them realized the lack of tactical advantage in an urban setting with a passionate crowd.

                  Re read the above paragraph for what you need to know about race war possibilities in the context you’re thinking of…, your most outspoken representatives will continue to be people like Timoth McVeigh, the crazed knife man in Portland, the sick f&*k who ran his car into the crowd in Charlotesville.

                  And then step back into reality to come to grips with the fact that there has never *not* been a race war in this country. It’s just the dynamics are shifting behind the scenes a little bit more.


                2. Civil War, It’s just so hard to get it started and keep it burning, especially when the longer they are at it, the more people become aware of exactly what kind of destruction they are offering. That has to be exacerbated by the fact that a lot of these white protesters have very comfortable basements that are calling them.

            2. The ROK, ie South Koreans, are close national friends and allies of the United States. A truly great people, and an impressive modern nation.

              How cynical that the Democrats seek to enlist them in their civil war against the President!

              1. Logan’s a Republican and was left with no choice except to ask for foreign help if he – unlike your cult leader – actually GAF about his constituents.

                The rest of the world is laughing at us Kurtz, and your hated Chinese are cleaning up on the real deals Trump abandoned all over the world.

                1. Who said I hate Chinese? I never said that. In fact, I literally love them. I even admire the CCP at times.

                  I just see the PRC and the CCP as rivals and adversaries of America. Because they are.
                  Not even the rank and file communist person, who is just another functionary in a uniparty state, but the entities as such.

                  Kind of like i can dislike the Democrat leadership, and see the organization as a danger to America, while still loving all my Democrat friends.

                  I can hold those two thoughts in my mind at heart at once, very easily. But, you don’t have to worry about that. Feel free to believe whatever caricatures you imagine. I enjoy my obscurity. The Chinese people I talk to face to face every day know me and like me just fine. It’s strange how as I get older, I trust and like Chinese immigrants more and more and my own native born white fellow Americans less and less.

                  Still, our type is worth saving, in spite of all our obvious faults.

                  I guess it is out of filial piety that I still appreciate my own European descended ancestors and the common culture and destiny of European descended peoples; my Chinese friends seem to admire that. To them, it’s a normal and healthy sentiment.
                  Strangely, a lot of white people just think I am a “racist.”

                  Ask yourself why the PRC is rising, and why America falters. Maybe it’s because they have this, and we dont? ….


                  So the question really is. Not about me. I don’t hate Chinese people. Although I prefer them to a lot of other nationalities. I never pretended to like or care for all ethnicities equally. I am not the champion of “equality,” never have been.

                  The question I have, is why you and other BLM boosting Democrat cheerleaders, seem to hate white people?
                  Especially when you wear the white skin yourself.
                  Must be awful looking in the mirror every day and seeing the face of an evil white skinned oppressor., a beneficiary of “systemic privilege,” etc.

          1. Seth,
            The healthcare system does a lousy job of dealing with chronic illness–and single payer won’t change that one bit. It manages illness. Doctors do not emphasize to people the importance of eliminating processed food from their diets. Besides that, there is the problem of choice–too often, people do not want to change, even after a massive health scare. Heck, people are often non-compliant with their medication, which can foul them up (not to mention the bad interactions of some medicines because of complex medicine regimens that are challenging for anyone to track and manage).

            If people ate real food, mostly plants, got plenty of sunshine, moved their bodies, got good sleep, and avoid toxins and other nasty substances, our healthcare costs would go down by quite a bit without changing the healthcare system at all..

            1. Rose, wholesome food and good sleep are important. But without Obamacare people with preexisting conditions are screwed. And insurers will be perfectly free to sell junk policies again.

                1. Alan, you’re LYING!!

                  Without Obamacare coverage for preexisting conditions is dead.

                    1. Mespo, Congress has to write new legislation to uphold all the provisions in Obamacare. But apparently rightwing media has never told you that.

                    2. “Congress has to write new legislation to uphold all the provisions in Obamacare”

                      You should ask yourself why more legislation and money is needed to prop up a plan that was supposed to solve the healthcare dilemma, not make it worse. Obamacare was a hybrid that satisfied neither the left nor the right. When it appeared for the final vote it was a skeleton and very incomplete. Democrats wanted to pass it so they used all sorts of maneuers, bribery and lies finally passing it in a way that I am not even sure that it totally conformed with the law.

                      Obamacare should have ended with the Supreme Court decision but Justice Roberts decided that he would legislate from the bench and call the fine (which wasn’t legal) a tax which was legal but not what Congress dictated. Many Democrats refused to vote for the bill if the penalty was called a tax. Much of the bill was left for the executive branch to manage as problems came up. Search the bill for ‘the secretary shall’ or will or any variant of that and you will see that that phrase popping up all over the place because this was an incomplete bill that should never have been passed.

                      Blame the democrats. They passed it. They own it. Now they should deal with it as written along with the financial burdens that were discussed thoughout the debate. It was known that Obamacare would face a death spiral. It had to. We have seen death spirals before and we know what causes them. The legislation was written so that a death spiral had to occur.

                      Obamacare needs to be buried and now because of it we are in a much worse position to pass a good bill that protects the American public and their pocketbooks.

                  1. You are saying that Obamacare, that takes advantage of families that are paying more than ever before, is the only way to cover preexisting conditions?

                    That is hogwash. To say that you have to be stupid or lying. Take your choice.

          2. Every bad thing, in Seth’s fevered imagination goes back to Orange Man Bad!

            Just elect Democrats folks, then UTOPIA! SETH PROMISES IT!

      2. Alan: you’re totally irresponsible to post this:

        “Or live a normal life with a slight risk”

        The risk isn’t “slight”, Alan. In a best case scenario you might ‘only” spend a week in bed. But even that could be a disaster for many people.

        1. “The risk isn’t “slight”, Alan. In a best case scenario you might ‘only” spend a week in bed. But even that could be a disaster for many people.”

          If the choice is to stay locked up at home for a year isn’t that more of a disaster than a week?

          Do you think before you respond?

            1. Paint Chips, you are the ignorant one. You think locking oneself home for a year is less of a disaster than being sick for a week. That is essentially what you said.

              Your problem is that you don’t know what you are talking about and you refuse to place the facts ahead of conclusions. Instead you draw conclusions and then look for the facts.

              1. Those are not the only options. The obviously correct action is to reopen society carefully and with all citizens wearing masks in public, practicing safe distancing, and providing enough testing – with prompt results – and contact tracing. Our ignorant and selfish president started slow, failed to provide leadership, supplies in proper numbers, and central coordination and then ignorantly and selfishly sabotaged his own guidelines and reopened unsafely. The damage to our health and the economy – again – are clearly primarily his fault

                1. “Those are not the only options. The obviously correct action is to reopen society carefully and with all citizens wearing masks in public, practicing safe distancing, and providing enough testing – with prompt results – and contact tracing.”

                  That is what is being done in most Republican and some Democrat states. Hot spots will occur and then one deals with them. That is what our President has suggested leaving final decisions to the states.

                  We do have those that don’t know what they are talking about or those that lie about these things. How long did it take Obama and Biden to recognize H1N1?

                  The news media claims Texas opened ignorantly but Cuomo did a great job in NY.

                  NY 1,670 deaths per million and said by the Stupid folk to have been managed by Cuomo beautifully. Texas with 125 deaths per million has been criticized. Are you able to explain to us why people like you think NY did a great job and Texas did a lousy one?

                  1. Bahgdad Allan is the only one who did not notice our president’s sabotaging efforts at wearing masks and safe distancing and his complete failure at keeping up with testing, and the following of that model by GOP governors across the south who are now freaking out over the outbreaks they helped engender.

                    1. One has to ask what Fauci and the CDC initially said about masks and one has to recognize that the mask you are probably using has huge spaces that permit the very small virus particles to enter with ease. Think of a mask as a park fence where mosquitos can easly fly through to sting you but a basketball will hit the fence and go nowhere.

                      No one was stopped by the President from using a mask. The states were permitted to decide within a certain framework what they could or couldn’t do. That is consistent with our federalist system and makes sense because local laws of this nature are better at dealing with local problems.

                      I don’t think the President ever prevented social distancing.

                      Testing was a problem but the problem was created by the CDC and the department of health where almost all of the most important people existed prior to Trump being elected. Had Trump continued in the manner of the bureuaucracy we would likely still be lacking adequate testing today.

                      Instead Trump gave up on the big state or government solution and sent the problem to the free market and proved why free markets are almost always better than government solutions. We have produced trendous quantities of testing in all sorts of variety and probably the testing is among or the best in the world. That is a Trump success over big government’s failure.

                      A lot of the testing problems and other problems have to do with Democrat governors. Many didn’t know how to handle the testing supplies they ahd and though they complained about lack of testing it was there sitting in the labs.

                      Take NY and Cuomo who was told he needed more ventillators several years earlier. He did nothing. He did nothing to prevent catastrophe in his state and was totally unprepared. HE had no idea of what he was doing though he got good press. HE killed nursing home patients by placing covid-19 positive patients into nursing homes.

                      Because Trump, not Cuomo who panicked, made sure there were adequate ventillators. HE povided Cuomo with a hospital ship and the hospitals to help with the overloading. One has to wonder about how NY has handled the overloading of hospitals. It didn’t. There is overloading and panic almost every flu season.

                      You are totally ignorant of what has happened. you are even ignorant of how viruses react and what flattening means and what it is used for. This virus has become a political monstrosity that is destroying lives from things other than Covid.

                      There is no discussion with you because you lie and are unable to learn not from the blog but from the raw data that exists in a form a 6th grader can understand.

                    1. What is amazing is the raw data is out there for anyone to access and the Bug is only interested in what CNN and politicians say about the actual spread of the disease. The Bug is incapable of understanding that performance is a good indicator of future performance and a lot of people have performed miserably during this epidemic and have waffled all over the place.

                      Though the governor has certain points that can be discussed his best and most accurate point was ” I’m not a health care expert by any means,”

                      The best thing that could happen is that the vaccine is available early and actually works. The other best thing is that we find antivirals that work consistently so that if there is any death from the disease it is minimal.

                      Bug, stick to spellcheck. When the brain doesn’t work right, use a tool.

                    2. Group immunity works — it is the only thing that works. Ever.
                      The adaptive immune system (not T-cell immunity) remembers every infection by every virus and is able to generate very specific antibodies. Vaccines which contain a weakened or dead virus train the adaptive immune system to produce antibodies as if the person had had the actual disease. These people cannot acquire nor transmit the disease.

                    3. Allan with the deflection.

                      Check back with me when you need directions to the kitchen.

                  2. The states where CV 19 is receding right now are mostly located in New England, NY, and NJ. I believe SD is also receding. What’s the constant? The Northeastern states shut down, came up with mask mandates, and re opened in sequentially progressive fashion that is data based, i.e. along the lines of the original CDC guidelines.

                    The states that went out and shot their wad early out of the gate, re-opening non sequencially: Florida, Texas, Georgia, Arizona, Oklahoma, etc are the ones experiencing epicenter like conditions right now. This the data. I personally didn’t write it. And I couldn’t make it go away because I don’t like what it says.

                    That combined with massive Trump administration incompetency in ramping up testing, contact tracing and PPE supply has led to the latest forecast of roughly 225k dead by Nov. 1.

                    Yet another sign the empire is dying along with all the needless deaths from the pandemic.

                    1. “What’s the constant? The Northeastern states shut down, came up with mask mandates, and re opened in sequentially progressive fashion that is data based, i.e. along the lines of the original CDC guidelines.”

                      Florida and Texas closed down as well but they were not as strict as the northeastern states and worked within the guidelines opening their states faster. They have tiny fractions of the deaths NY suffered on a daily basis despite their populations being larger.

                      The constants are the virus without a vaccine eventually trends towards herd immunity. Another constant is the most important things to be done were not done in a whole bunch of northern democrat states that lead to a huge death rates multiples higher than the rest of the states. NY and some other states virtually killed nursing home patients. That is something that could have been remarkably reduced.

                      42% of the deaths were caused by NY, NJ and Massachusettes. That should tell you something but there is no logic calculator in your spellcheck.

                    2. Herd immunity is an idiotic goal with Covid because it takes 70-80% infection rate of the population to achieve it. Even if the required infection rate was half of that, it would be so far beyond hospital capacity to deal with it that there’d be no room for anyone else in the hospitals.

                      “Herd immunity” is at best a holocaust prescription.

                    3. “Herd immunity is an idiotic goal”

                      That is how vaccines are used in our favor. Vaccines help create herd immunity.

                      Everytime you attach so-called “fact” to your postings you sound Btb. I expect a 7 year old to do better.

                    4. Bug, another factor working against herd immunity, beyond the math so well laid out by the GOP governor of Mississippi, is that some studies are showing that immunity gained from having covid-19 may be short lived – 3-4 months. That is not unheard of with viruses, and if that is the pattern, makes herd immunity impossible. This is dangerous s..t, no matter how much our junior sunshine pumpers want it not to be.

                    5. Absolutely Book.

                      As it turns out, Covid antibodies a) can’t all prevent re infection, and b) aren’t permanent. Now, can the ones that can’t prevent re infection lessen the blow next time around? Undoubtedly they can. But Covid is a special virus, lots of firsts with this one.

          1. Yeah mespo, no symptoms or if you’re marginal, death, or if you’re anyone, maybe lifelong damage to your lungs, heart, or brain.

            “You have to ask yourself. Are you feeling lucky punk?”

            1. Is this Seth, Spartacus or the dirty trickster? Gainesville is getting his beauty rest and despises alpha males like Dirty Harry so it can’t be the real btb — mouthpiece of the SF USA’s office.

              1. So, mespo does or does not advise mespo, jr to be careful with the virus?

                Pretend alpha males like Mespo are just as likely to have permanent brain damage from covid-19 and in his case is showing symptoms.

                1. “So, mespo does or does not advise mespo, jr to be careful with the virus?”

                  How many children under the age of 15 have died from Covid?

                  How many children under the age of 15 have died from the prior flu?

                  Hint: more children >5X died from the flu.

                  Can you explain those numbers?

                  1. Allan ignores the fact that the covid flu has resulted in permanent damage to some who have contracted it, that it can be a complete unpleasant ordeal lasting 2 weeks +, it has a high rate of morbidity for those who may be compromised and related to exposed children, that it is unusually highly contagious, and that unlike other flus, we have no vaccine yet.

                    1. “Allan ignores the fact that the covid flu has resulted in permanent damage to some who have contracted it, that it can be a complete unpleasant ordeal lasting 2 weeks +”

                      I do not ignore that nor do I ignore it when the seasonal flu comes around. However, we do not close up shop for the seasonal flu. That the death rate is higher in Covid than recent flus we can take more precautions but the truth is aside from the develpment of vaccines and medications there is very little we can do to attack its inborn infectiousness. We have faced this problem for centuries and longer.

                      What you are advocating is whatever Trump didn’t do. In other words you are advocating a political solution to a medical problem. That isn’t very smart but it is what is expected coming from you.

                      “related to exposed children, ”

                      There is a debate whether or not children transmit the disease to their parents or the parents get the disease elsewhere. That is something you seem oblivious to.

                      “it is unusually highly contagious, and that unlike other flus, we have no vaccine yet.”

                      Despite the vaccine 10’s of millions still contract the flu every year. You should learn what you are talking about. My 7 year old grandson is more informed than you.

                  2. Here’s the CDC take on children and Covid, Allan.

                    But just to nip in the bud your penchant for disingenuousness, citing the death rate of kids from Covid is a red herring because the real dangers around it aren’t so much that they die, ti’s that they’re carriers. Covid transmission rate is roughly twice what the ‘flu’ is (even though talking of the flu as a known entity when it mutates and changes often is misleading). Covid transmission is about 4:1 versus at most 2:1 with the ‘flu’.

                    Long term organ damage to asymptomatics is difficult to gauge as of yet obviously due to Covid being such a young pandemic. Most fascinating to me in Covid autopsies is the penchant for the disease to cause massive clotting in every organ. Not a good trait when factoring in future heart disease tendency.

                    Truth is, there is much to be known about Covid effects that will only be determined with time. To boil this down to death rate of kids is really misleading.

                    CDC stats (which make clear assessing death stats is not the holy grail)…


                    1. “Covid is a red herring because the real dangers around it aren’t so much that they die, ti’s that they’re carriers.”

                      Bug, again you should not respond unless spellcheck tells you what is wrong.

                      Your CDC article is from April 10th. The understanding of the disease is improved almost daily. Today some are saying children are not frequent vectors. I don’t know what the final conclusion will be.

                      You are obviously poorly educated and don’t read non-fiction. You also don’t follow the raw data or the literature. You are a big mouth with a tiny brain that shows himself to be a fool everytime you respond on this blog.

                    2. If it is T-cell immunity then children are never carriers. No more so than furniture. Sure they could have a virus on their skin due to contact. However, they never “shed” virus. They can visit grandma safely after washing their hands. If T-cell immunity is the thing.

                    3. T Cell immunity is *one* of the things, Old George. Not the whole bisquit, my friend.

                    4. Allan:

                      Again, let me know if you need help finding the kitchen.

                    5. “Again, let me know if you need help finding the kitchen.”

                      What a stupid comment to make. If I were disabled I might need help but in a way that makes the intent of your comment a backhanded insult to disabled folk.

                      No taste as well as no intellect.

                      Go back to spellcheck.

                    6. I suspect that the kitchen is one room that old Allan doesn’t have trouble finding. “It’s a reasonable wager” that he’s packing some extra pounds.

        1. Joe Biden’s daughter—arrested twice, no convictions

          Joe Biden’s brother—arrested three times, no jail time

          Joe Biden’s niece—arrested three times, no consequences

          Joe Biden’s son—arrested once, no convictions

          RT if you’re sick of the two-tiered justice system in America!

          3:24 PM · Jul 14, 2020 @CharileKirk11

      1. sure Seth. You can relax now. Don’t worry, Biden is a shoe in. in fact, don’t even bother voting. You guys got this! Take a break, eh.

    1. Seth:
      You mean my accurate poll. QP was off by 12 points in 2016 so trust away there Jack. Those beans will grow up to the sky one day.

  13. What a bizarre discussion.

    White supremacy is a physical axiom.

    Deniers should be jailed as malicious frauds and blasphemers of truth and science with the intent to incite to riot and perpetrate insurrection.

    Mohamed Ali was the unrivaled champion of physical competition in the form of boxing.

    Neil Armstrong was the first man on the moon.

      1. Yes it is white. The black rocket scientists will get on that problem right away.

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