Pittsburgh Professor Stripped of Position After Publishing Paper Questioning Affirmative Action In Admissions

download-1This week I testified in the Senate about the erosion of free speech and academic freedom in our universities where professors are being punished or even fired for expressing viewpoints that challenge a new orthodoxy on our campuses, particularly with regard to racial and political issues.  The latest example can be found this week at the University of Pittsburgh. The University of Pittsburgh Medical Center (which is separate from the university) has removed Associate Professor of Medicine Norman Wang was removed from his position as Program Director of the Electrophysiology Fellowship.  The removal was in direct response to Wang publishing an article in a peer-reviewed journal that questioned the use of affirmative action in medical schools admissions. The action raises serious concerns over both free speech and academic freedom. The only thing more unsettling than the actions of the university was the relative silence of his colleagues throughout the University of Pittsburgh as he was punished for expressing his academic views.

In the white paper in the Journal of the American Heart Association,  Wang wrote:

“Racial and ethnic preferences at both the undergraduate and professional school levels for blacks and Hispanics result in relatively weak academic starting positions in classes. This has been postulated to lead to poor performance through compounding ‘academic mismatch,’ stress‐related interference, and disengagement. Many do not complete their intended programs or do not attain academic success to be attractive candidates for subsequent educational programs or employment….

“We will have succeeded when we no longer think we require black doctors for black patients, chicano doctors for chicano patients, or gay doctors for gay patients, but rather good doctors for all patients.’ Evolution to strategies that are neutral to race and ethnicity is essential. Ultimately, all who aspire to a profession in medicine and cardiology must be assessed as individuals on the basis of their personal merits, not their racial and ethnic identities.”…

According to MedPage Today, the Journal announced that it was reevaluating the paper and Editor Barry London, MD, PhD, attached an apology to the paper, saying JAHA “will support all efforts to correct this error, including but not limited to the publication of alternate viewpoints, which we solicited at the time of publication but have not yet been submitted to the journal. In addition, we will work to improve our peer review system to prevent future missteps of this type.”

I am not in a position to judge the merits of the entire paper. However, Wang was expressing his academic view and defending that view with what he considered to be supporting data. He is challenging commonly held positions to be sure in writing such things as “There exists no empirical evidence by accepted standards for causal inference to support the mantra that ‘diversity saves lives.'”

The pledge to publish “alternative viewpoints” is a good one. That is what academic debate and free speech is all about. However, the report that Wang has been stripped of one of his positions is deeply disturbing. There must be room for debate over the efficacy and basis for affirmative action in our schools. Wang clearly does not support such programs, at least to the degree that they have been used in admissions. It is a view that is consistent with some of the members of the Supreme Court in cases like Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action (2014) and Regents of the University of California v. Bakke (1978).

Yet, Wang has been apparently been removed from his position as Program Director of the Electrophysiology Fellowship.

Once again, I am less concerned with the merits of the debate as I am the right to have such a debate.  The action taken against Wang clearly sends a signal that such unpopular views will not be tolerated.  The “reevaluation” orders by the Journal also raises the concern that the type of cringing compliance that we saw recently at the New York Times is now invading our academic journals.

Again, the UPMC appears separate from the university, but the lack of support from the faculty in this controversy is notable. While the UPitt handbook is relatively understated in its expression of support for academic freedom, it does declare in Article II that “Autonomy and freedom of inquiry are required for the University to carry out its mission.” Simply because Professor Wang does not endorse the use of affirmative action in admissions does not mean that those views impact his treatment of students or countermand any university policies. Indeed, he presented his views for debate in a respected academic journal.  The objection is not that he is right in these views but that he has a right to express them without punishment or retaliation.

Update: the article was slightly edited to clarify that the UPMC and the university are separate entities.

313 thoughts on “Pittsburgh Professor Stripped of Position After Publishing Paper Questioning Affirmative Action In Admissions”

  1. The billions poured into education in the 1960’s for inter city minorities was wasted, so the EEOC was created, Affirmative Action arose and Congress passed FERPA in 1974 to prevent the public from knowing the scam.

    1. Strange thing, it seems almost as if the more money they spent on education the stupider students of all races got. Almost as if they are trying to make fleshy robots.

      1. Young– New York is a prime example. I believe more is spent per capita on “education” in New York than in any other state but according to officials from City University of New York, 80 percent of high school graduates in New York City can’t read. The bulk of the money apparently goes to high salaried teachers who obviously cannot teach and through them to the teachers union that has enough political power to keep teachers and administrators from being held accountable..

        1. honest, you requested an explanation of AA and I took the time to respond. Are you up for a discussion of the issue?

          1. “honest, you requested an explanation of AA and I took the time to respond. Are you up for a discussion of the issue?”
            *********************

            This oughta be good. Like one of those Dian Fossey scenes in “Gorillas in the Mist.” You get to guess who plays the gorilla, Poppy, in the dialog.

            1. I welcome it mespo, but like you, Honest has yet to engage in any serious debates here. He prefers chatting up the peanut gallery of wingnuts here.

          2. “Could someone explain to me how affirmative action is not racist?”

            You never actually answered his question. Using racism to fix historical effects of racism is racist. Quota based decision making rather than meritocratic based is pure racism, and it ends up hurting the people you’re trying to help.

            1. the problem with conservatives is that we have internalized our arguments and it’s blinded us to certain realities

              society will always have kin-selection effects happening because they are ingrained in all animal dna including ours, by evolution

              hence, whether it is family prefernces, extended family, or tribe, or ethnicity or nation, we are hard wired to discriminate

              moreover, because it is so deep inside of us, it will always offer advantages to those who can lever it.

              i am not sure why conservatives feel this is purely OK for family relations, but not extended family or tribe

              for this reason i reject to offer to agree that nobody should “discriminate”

              I discriminate in favor of my “guanxi” as the Chinese call it all the time, meaning vaguely social network, but radiating out from the houshold.
              Ie, My kinder, my kin, and my kind; and my friends; and my network; whenever it is lawful and helpful.
              which is pretty much every single day.

              I don’t intend to stop nor apologize.

              ethocentrism is not immoral, per se. We should not be so quick to denounce it.

              And we should understand THEY ARE USING IT AGAINST US.
              Sometimes you can only fight fire with fire.

        2. Honest– Yes. I imagine you saw the same in DC. The district spends more per pupil than most of the schools in the nation and has nothing to show for it but a bloated bureaucracy and a pipeline of cash to Democrats.

          Industry contributes to the problem nationwide. A friend who teaches in a California high school gave me a copy of the text used for American History. Three authors were involved and two of them ‘studies’ professors who clearly knew very little about history. The book was unreadable. I handed it to a liberal friend who shares my interest in history (also a lawyer) and he couldn’t get past the first page. Yet publishers make fortunes from this racket.

          Were it up to me, I would have students read actual history books. My cousin, a school superintendent, said it would be too challenging for them. I told him real history wouldn’t be if you stopped giving them unreadable crap to stare at.

          I hope covid destroys the public school system but roaches are hard to exterminate.

          1. Don’t eliminate good historical fiction from history. Good historical fiction provides a view that history cannot.

            1. Allan– I agree about historical fiction. It is a great way to learn about history. Should be required in schools.

                1. I may have read one of his books or perhaps just started it but somehow wasn’t impressed. I think I came across something that was wrong and was put off. It must have been something unusual because I don’t expect perfection. When I read Gilbert’s history of WW I I noticed he said Jellicoe’s flagship was the Lion. Of course it wasn’t. Lion was only a battle cruiser commanded by Beaty. Jellicoe had a true battleship, the Iron Duke, but I let it pass with only minor annoyance. Don’t remember what put me off The Discoverers.

                  1. Young, Boorstin wrote other books that I didn’t like but The Discoverers was tremendous because he wrote history from a different vantage point. He didn’t deal with wars, leaders of state etc., most inventions, rather he dealt he with things like time (part 1) analyzing the history within. I think anyone with a history degree should have to read that book. Anyone that teaches history should have to read that book. It makes history real and helps one learn how to think. Try it. You will not hear about all those names and dates you read about in other books.

                    1. Okay. It is worth another look. I have a number of books on the history if science and several biographies of scientists. It’s a subject I like.

                    2. I remembered last night why I stopped reading it. It seemed that he was accepting Kepler’s model of the orbits based on nested regular solids as being Kepler’s ultimate solution. Of course it was not. Mars did not fit. Interestingly, if he used the less accurate observations that had come before it would have fit, but he had the more precise observations of Tycho Brahe and Mars did not fit with those. Reluctantly Kepler abandoned the solids model saying something like ‘if God has sent us a Tycho we must use him’. His renewed effort led him to the ellipse which, of course, worked.

                      In any event, I stopped reading The Discoverers at that point. Seemed too big an error to overlook.

                    3. “he was accepting Kepler’s model ”

                      Young, you are far more knowledgeable than I in this field. Kepler is an important name but is a tiny part of that huge book where I am sure he dealt with many names in relationship to Kepler along with a tremendous amount of knowledge. It is not totally uncommon to find in a detailed book some errors. What did Boorstin say when you corrected his error?

                    4. I didn’t mention it to Boornstin. Arthur Koestler who wrote ‘Darkness at Noon’ about life in a totalitarian society (good reading these days) also wrote a very good book on science, The Sleepwalkers, that covered the growth of ideas over the ages but focused particularly on Kepler. It’s a very good book and I expect to enjoy reading it again.

                      The history of the struggle to understand the world is very interesting to me. I don’t think Koestler covered all of this, but as you already know the Ptolemaic model of the universe dominated for millennia but one Greek thinker, Aristarchos, correctly recognized that we went round the sun rather than the reverse. In a biography of Copernicus I read it was mentioned that in his notes Copernicus mentioned Aristarchos and then crossed his name out. That was interesting. Galileo took up the idea and, rather foolishly, started a fight with the Church. They were willing to have him publish so long as he said it was a theory rather than fact. He refused and made fun of churchmen in his Dialogue earning house arrest. In fact, the church was right. Galileo’s system relied on perfect circles, as did Copernicus and Ptolemy and that was wrong. It took Kepler to discover that the orbits were ellipses.

                      In any event, you have a point. I could look at The Discovers again. I might even still have my copy somewhere. Maybe I was too hasty putting it down when I did and if I read on he might have gotten it right after all.

                    5. “Maybe I was too hasty putting it down when I did and if I read on he might have gotten it right after all.”

                      Young, I guess that means you have to pick up the book again and find out. Generally he is telling a story that is real but he he is telling it from the vantage point of the one experiencing the details at the time. I doubt he spent that many pages on Kepler but if you put the book down in the middle of the discussion you might not have heard the rest of Kepler’s conclusions.

                      I don’t have the knowledge. The discussion can’t be more than a dozen or two pages so maybe you will review it and see if Boorstin was wrong. If he was you should let him know because he didn’t get his information out of thin air. There is a trail. I’m sure he would appreciate the knowledge if correct and might even trace it back.

                      I remember writing out checks for private school for my kids and wondering whether or not the expensive private school was worth it. My youngest child walked by and I remembered a story from The Discoverers. I asked my youngest who was the first to calculate the circumference of the earth? I expected another answer but the answer given was unexpected and correct, Eratosthenes. I signed all the checks and never asked again.

                    6. I should mention that Kepler’s model with regular solids fitted within each other like Russian dolls was very beautiful and intellectually and aesthetically pleasing. One of Kepler’s greatest feats, I think, was tearing his mind away from such a prize and abandon it because the orbit of Mars did not quite fit.

                      Even after Kepler and Newton, the orbit of Mercury did not work out quite right until Einstein.

                    7. Allan– You are right. I may have been too hasty. Thanks for the story of your child knowing that Eratosthenes measured the circumference of the earth. That sounds like it was a wonderful school. I wish more were like that.

                      Just out of curiosity I thought you might like this link to Kepler’s original, but wrong, model of the solar system. Not exactly as I remembered it but close enough. It would seem natural for someone with his background to think of geometric forms determining the orbits and to think they must be perfect, regular forms. The same idea I think led Harvey to the discovery of the circulatory system and Kekule to the shape of the benzene molecule. But, as beautiful as it was, this model was wrong and Kepler had to put it aside.

                      https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Keplers-model-of-the-Solar-system_fig3_288835739

          2. Susan Wise Bauer’s history books would make great high school history books. Last I saw, she has 3 books that cover the ancient world, medieval world, and the Renaissance.

            1. Prairie Rose – I doubt that Bauer’s books come with question sets and all the extras that teachers like. Usually, the publishers will supply the new textbook to the school or the district and then the teachers will vote or a committee will vote on the textbook to be chosen for the next couple of years. I always had a couple of key areas of history that I would check and see how they handled those. If they were neutral, then I was on board. If they were biased, then I voted against the book.

                1. Prairie Rose – besides US and World History, I would periodically offer a specialized course in history to fill out the students electives. This would fit in there. However, if I got a Houghton, Miffin book, it would come with quizzes, tests. overheads, ESL materials, AP materials, etc. I would not have to do anything except lecture from the text.

                  1. Paul S.,
                    “I would not have to do anything except lecture from the text.”

                    I am pretty sure you would never just lecture from the text. You are a theater guy so adding in color is part of your nature.

                    1. Prairie Rose – actually, I taught from notes I got from other sources. They could read the darn book. Also, I updated those notes (lectures of 90 minutes) every time I taught the course. And I did try to entertain them, adding funny or bizarre stories.

                    2. Paul S.,
                      ” actually, I taught from notes I got from other sources. They could read the darn book.”

                      Figured this was the case. I cannot imagine you doing otherwise. Keeping students on their toes is more fun for everyone.

                      Some students around here do not even have textbooks in some classes. They have giant binders of power point printoffs. Grrrrrr.

                    3. Prairie Rose – I have done power point printouts, however without the information. They had to fill it in from the lecture.

            2. I am not familiar with her books but I will trust you that they are good and also interesting. I should look into them. For the Civil War I would want them to read Bruce Catton’s series. On WW I I would want The Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman and Churchill’s series, or at least The World Crisis, his first volume. Also there is no substitute for Herodotus and Livy. Instead they are given macerated rubbish that is not interesting when it is readable and often is a totally unreadable.

              1. Young – all your suggestions are great, however that is not the reality of the classroom. You have 55 minutes/5/16 per semester. However, deduct 7 minutes for taking roll (required and must be outside your door). Then we have half-days of which there are usually 5 per semester. Now the school is going to buy the books and ALL the teachers have to agree. Do you think all you fellow history teachers would agree with you?

                Now let’s get to the end of class. The students start getting ready to go about 5 minutes before the bell and you still have to give tomorrow’s assignment.

                So, out of your 55 minutes of class you have 43 minutes, at most, teach. So, let’s take World History. The first semester goes to the Renaissance. How much time do you think you have to teach any one person, etc. US History usually either stops at or before the Civil War. At best you might get in 3 days to teach and discuss the Civil War.

                1. Paul S.,
                  You must have gotten pretty deeply in-depth. I have not taught US History in H.S.; however, I remember getting up to Watergate as a student.

                  1. Prairie Rose – how much depth did you spend on any subject in US History? We did not get past WWII when I took it is high school.

                    1. OLLY – we were between wars. Korea was over and we were about to send troops into Vietnam.

                    2. Paul S.,
                      Since the curriculum spiraled a bit, U.S. History was taught in the elementary grades, middle school, and high school, with varying degrees of depth and high-interest movies and/or projects. We barely got to Watergate, only got a cursory summary, practically. But, at least, we knew about the main issues, why it happened, and the outcome. For, I think, the middle school US History iteration, we did only get to the end of WWII.

                2. Paul, What you describe is a problem with the structure itself. Too much is crammed into snack sizes when it isn’t possible to learn unless you make a meal of it. They remember almost nothing. I hired a young woman in California who was recently out of high school to work on some complex documents. She was behind the counter of my hotel when I met her and she impressed me. Later we hired her girlfriend, too. At one point I said she was doing so well maybe someday she would work in Washington, DC. She said she wanted to go further away than that. What? Where do you think Washington is? She thought it was somewhere in California. So did her friend. That weren’t sure why the name is famous. She was a smart girl and there is no possible excuse for her being so ignorant after graduating from high school. A couple of weeks later I visited a Mexican border town and happened to be in a bus depot when a bunch of Mexican school girls came in. I saw a map of North America on the wall and asked the girls if any of them could show me where Washington, DC was. They all put their fingers exactly on it without hesitation. They knew why it was famous too. A couple of them were put out. They thought I was trying to make fun of ignorant Mexican girls. I assured them I was not and that I admired their knowledge. Mexico doesn’t spend near as much as we do in any school and they are doing better with at least some kids. It was a revolting discovery that our system was that bad. The structure is deeply flawed. As you explained, one can do almost nothing in an hour. I think it might be better to get a solid base in something and use that as a scaffold to add knowledge to. I could easily spend a semester on the Civil War. There are hundreds of absorbing stories in that war and very few can be told within an hour. The War of the Roses is another that could hold attention if gone into in depth. It is gruesome but fascinating. Game of Thrones borrowed heavily from it. My brother is a teacher, several first cousins are teachers, and one a former superintendent who teaches in a university college of education. I am not hostile to teachers, but our system of teaching is wretched. Some private schools may not be better. Obama thought there were 60 states and pronounced ‘corps’ as ‘corpse’.

                  1. Young – I did take a college course on the Civil War, another one on the Napoleonic Wars and one on Ancient Warfare. College is where things get more finite.

                  2. That weren’t sure why the name is famous. She was a smart girl and there is no possible excuse for her being so ignorant after graduating from high school.

                    The fundamentals of American history, geography, and civics should be taught in elementary school. Might go right out the other ear, but that’s when it should be mastered. Make ’em pass state regents’ examinations in the subject matter.

                    1. Absurd–I agree that the fundamentals should be taught early and repeated in greater depth regularly. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to integrate subjects so that, for example, what they learned about the Civil War could be repeated again from a different angle in American Government.

                      Did you notice, by the way, that the Gettysburg Address is clearly a lawyer’s form document? Whereas and Whereas and Now Therefore. Obvious once you see it.

                    2. Young,
                      “It wouldn’t be a bad idea to integrate subjects so that, for example, what they learned about the Civil War could be repeated again from a different angle in American Government.”

                      I do like that idea. On a similar note, at the middle school level, my district recommended the history and english teachers coordinate their curricula so that they could co-teach certain topics. The Civil War unit included the English teacher leading lessons and discussion on O Captain, My Captain, the Gettysburg Address, excerpts from The Killer Angels, and The Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge, for example.

                    3. Prairie Rose – ideally you should be taking US History and US Literature at the same time and same rate. In some schools they do try to match the curriculum, in others they do not. It really depends on the district and the state. I worked on an project for Pearson where we went through every state standard in the United States. This was just before Common Core came in and ruined it all. Some states had standards that were untestable (I am looking at you NY) and some had so much stuff you couldn’t teach it (I am looking at you Minnesota). However, some like Texas, Arizona, California, Montana, etc. were teachable and testable.

                    4. Prairie Rose– Nice to hear that somebody is using scaffolding or spiraling with subjects. For me, at least, it was always easier if I learned something in detail and then linked new things to that. In high school I found a book on Octavian and the Roman world at that time and his rise to emperor. I absorbed that and discovered that when I read other things about Rome and then ancient Greece I could tie each new thing to the structures I already knew. It made it much easier. I learned absolutely nothing in history class and probably got a D in it. Of course the text book was as exciting as want ads when you aren’t buying.

                    5. Paul S.,
                      How did Iowa fair in your evaluation? Probably (hopefully) pretty well. I did a brief review of state test scores following the introduction of Common Core and they were one of the few places where there didn’t seem to be a general drop in test scores.

                      “In some schools they do try to match the curriculum, in others they do not. It really depends on the district and the state. ”

                      The district I am in now does not seem to be doing this. They are a chaotic mess. The districts I attended in Iowa did. They had it together in many ways, though. Where we are now, well…

                    6. Prairie Rose – the problem is do you teach to the test or do you just teach and hope they will get enough to pass the test. I have known of schools that use all of their courses to teach to the test, just to get their scores up. When I was teaching and instructional specialist, we taught the curriculum in that specific class and I monitored that the teachers lesson plans were on pace.

                      Arizona only tests in math and English. They get 5 tries to pass the test. The next test they were going to add was science; biology, chemistry and physics. However, state law only requires that you take two years of science. They have always had a problem with the history standards. The first time they offered them there was a literal bloodbath in the room over some of the items, because they were opinion not history. It was a fun afternoon. I think only three teachers went to the ER. They did finally get standards accepted, but no test.

                      As for Iowa, I do not remember. There were 4 of us splitting the states, so I got roughly 1/4 of the states and then we had to go back and check each others work, so there was a 2nd eye on the state. I did not get Iowa in either bunch. I do not remember anyone complaining about Iowa though. 😉 And there would be times we would be screaming at the computer “That is historically incorrect, you twits!!!!!” However, we could not change it.

                    7. Paul S.,
                      “the problem is do you teach to the test or do you just teach and hope they will get enough to pass the test. I have known of schools that use all of their courses to teach to the test, just to get their scores up.”

                      I guess I vote for teaching effectively and with a thorough curriculum and hope they get enough to pass the test. I am in a district right now that appears to have a rather heavy focus on teaching to the test to get their scores up. Covid is laying their inadequacies bare, though.

                    8. Prairie Rose – one of the nice things about the computer schooling is that the parent(s) can see/hear what the teacher is saying. I wonder how many teachers have drastically changed their lesson plans?

                  3. Young,
                    “The structure is deeply flawed. As you explained, one can do almost nothing in an hour. I think it might be better to get a solid base in something and use that as a scaffold to add knowledge to.”

                    This is why the schools I attended (public schools in several districts in Iowa) spiraled the education. Each time we revisited a history topic, we already had the outline of it a bit under our belts and the teachers could add depth. A few of my teachers definitely could have added more detail, but I’d fault the apathetic teacher rather than the scope/sequence. Quite a few of my teachers definitely enlivened the classes with excellent extra material. When I was a kid, I didn’t get why we were learning the information *again*, but as an adult, I see how the spiraling and scaffolding much of the material was a wise move.

                    I agree with TIA that “The fundamentals of American history, geography, and civics should be taught in elementary school.” That’s exactly what we did in grades 4th-6th, in particular, and, overall, my classmates and I were taught well.

                  1. DSS – Forty plus students, yes it takes about 7 minutes. That includes putting the roll outside the door.

                    1. Young – I don’t remember anything in the manual saying you couldn’t, but it would be bad form. 😉

                    2. Paul– Arizona teachers went on strike a little while back. Did teachers get much out of it or did most of it go to administrators?

                    3. Young – the money would have gone to the teachers. Administrators have their own union. 😉

                3. I’ve thought for years schools should frame teaching history by teaching at least the last 300 years of history as related to banking & financial history as it seems most important events of the recent past have been wars brought on out of financial interest of the banks.

                  Teaching as a whole is about to make it’s biggest change in a least a 100 years. It makes zero sense to hold kids/young adults hostage to this system for some of their best years of life.

                  Anyway, then I seen this concept piece about teaching a few minutes ago.

                  BTW: I noticed back in school most kids get bored to death with history & hated memorizing dates for test. For a long time now instead of at 1st getting bogged down with dates, say 1492, I’ll just think: 14 blah blah, as if it’s important one can always get back to it. But the real life test still is if it’s a pretty gal’s phone number. lol;), you say if one can relate 1492 to a pretty gal’s face & her phone # , just 1 more way of learning.

                  1. Oky1 – well, history is just one darn thing after another. 😉 However, there is a way to teach different subjects based on themes. You could do a theme on banks and then put all the banking stuff together. Or you could do war and put all the wars together. etc I was never comfortable teaching by themes,so I didn’t use them. I am more linear. However, I can be distracted.

                    1. Oky’s suggesting a curriculum based on the sort of nonsense historiography the John Birch Society used to promote. We really do not need that. Business history is a niche interest and you’d have to explain the basics of how financial intermediation works.

                    2. DSS – it is not nonsense, it is an accepted style of teaching. Just not one that I used.

                    3. Good professors are still teaching political and historical subjects properly. One of my kids has in the past year learned quite a bit in university.

                      but there is trouble, and much of the current trouble revolves around certain types of troublemakers that are allowed to bully everyone else.

                      BLM is now a lightening rod for the kinds of people who are troublemakers. It’s grreat that they are out there branding themselves with this mark, because, they are revealing their own problematic personalities, and soon people will understand that BLM’ers were the true plague of 2020, a viral meme of dangerous antisocial effect, that must be cancelled if the healthy of society is to be regained.

                      And not just BLM but all the usual assortment of motley leftists tropes along with it.

                      These things are called “identity politics” but to fight them, as a form of criticism, a healthy society must have its own identity to stand up to the virus.

                      How? At this point of ever more diversity and cultural fragmentation?

                      The answer is simple and the same as it ever was. You start where you are. Gewohrfenheit: we are thrown into place and time where we are. This is a mystery of existence, but common sense requires that we start from precisely where we are now. We can start with figuring out who is “We” in the first place. Because the dynamic of “We” versus “them” is unavoidable. We must embrace it to survive and flourish.

                      Likewise there is no getting away from “Will to power.” Evil men will always seek power and good men will always end up their slaves– without gaining sufficient power to cancel the bag guys. There is no way around it.

                      But “We” is key. I can’t win alone. This is the error of individualism and we must cancel it and come together.

                      Here is the ancient greek saying: EIS ANER, OUDEIS ANER

                      one man, no man

                      We need a phalanx and one phalanx after another. understand what is needed and immediately go in that direction.

                      right now November is the day and battleground. Everything must be done for now to prepare for that day and turn out all your friends and family like our very nation depends on it.

                      Because it does. That day, it’s all at risk. It’s all on the table. We better have spent all the gas in the tank. Better not leave any chips in the pocket, they are all on the table come election day. Prepare, figure out how to turn people out, make your action plan, dont wait for Republican party’s nonexistent infrastructure to tell you what to do. Figure out what to do, plan, and execute

                    4. TiaxXXii,

                      John Birch wasn’t even a sparkle in his mama’s back in the time of John Law.

                      Btw: Do you even understand the time in history you are living in today? I doubt it the way you slander the John Birch Society without any proof. I’ve never belonged to thier group but am considering signing up in recent years.

                      https://www.britannica.com/event/Mississippi-Bubble

                    5. Paul,

                      It’s very hard to condense a large volume on info into a small package, like you were saying about the very limited amount of time for actual teach.

                      Others & I think this current system of brick & mortar buildings, buses, student loans is ripe for innovation.

                      IE: Just glance at the view counts of say Prof Turley, Robert Kiyosaki or even yourself here, this online stuff it’s teaching to 100’s of 1000’s now rather then just 30 to 50 people in a class Rm & even better we can replay the video/text if we missed something or to focus more on a concept presented.

                      I hate to use this analogy, but look at the way the US military trains wet behind the ears recruits. Often the military gives them the basics & then throws them into a middle of a hot war zone. Those newbies figure it out fast or the die!

                      Life is like that, figure it out fast or die. Holding kids/people hostage a 1/3 or more of their lifes in this old way of teaching just to see if they can shut up & obey this corrupt system I think just make us all much weaker.

                    6. Oky1 – there is some interesting literature (studies) on the damage bad teachers do to students as they move through the system. Most of the literature seems to show that you can survive a bad teacher if you have a good teacher right after that. Two bad teachers in a row and you are permanently damaged.

                      For instance, I use the Great Courses series for my life-long learning. Each professor auditions for the job. Even with that, there are some that their style bothers me, even though the information is excellent. Now, this would not be an example of a bad teacher, but just an example that students react differently to the styles of teachers. I always had my students evaluate me at the end of every semester. Some thought I walked on water, some thought I should be walking underneath water. However, my best comments for making changes came from those in the middle. And I would make minor adjustments the next semester if needed.

                    7. Btw: Do you even understand the time in history you are living in today? I doubt it the way you slander the John Birch Society without any proof. I’ve never belonged to thier group but am considering signing up in recent years.

                      I haven’t slandered the Birch Society. They were always a crank collection.

                    8. Paul, I can assure you my thoughts on this banking/finance/war/economy are linear just as any developer would develop a project of multiple properties.

                      A plan, people, material & capital & explaining to everyone what the plan is & how to go back & make corrections if there’s a problem with the original plan.

                      Much like a spider’s web a handful of globalist banks always seem to be were the trouble comes from, at the foundation it all.

                      As the former Fed Chairman Paul Voclker once said that his biggest mistake in the late 70’s was not foreclosing on that handful mega banks that had caused all economic troubles of that era.

                      I saved a link to a Great Courses series website you mentioned.

                      That sounds like one of the many innovating ideas I was think might come about.

                      Most us pay to get specialized info all the time, lawyers,cpas etc.

                      I heard of another new concept idea/website a few days ago.

                      Currently it looks to me at 1st glance it is just allowing celebs/authors/polecat to get paid by talking to fans.

                      Seems to me that concept likely could be expanded.

                      Maybe one of those rioters might want to pay call/talk to Peter/seth for him to tell them to beat the Federal Rap for attacking/harming Federal Officers & their attempting to burn down a Fed Court House! LOL;)

                      (Good Luck with that Peter )

                    9. Oky1 – I am sure your unit on banking would be linear, it wouldn’t make much sense if it wasn’t. Personally, I added the economic stuff as I got to it in the timeline.

                  2. as it seems most important events of the recent past have been wars brought on out of financial interest of the banks.

                    Thanks for the issue of your imagination. I’m sure the board of regents will be pleased with your input.

                  3. Kiyosaki is right that mindset is right, be healthy, build your positives. think rightly, eat rightly, exercise. pan metron ariston.

                    Kiyosaki has given a lot of good advice about other mindset things, including enterprenurial mentality. I like him.

        3. Honest, my nephew and wife were both teachers in the NYC school system. The money wasn’t enough to keep them at those jobs. They both quit within 5 years. So your idea that NYC teachers are paid ‘high salaries’ is nonsense!

          1. Peter confounds the personal preferences of his nephew, working conditions, and compensation. Right on the ball.

            1. The mean salary for an elementary schoolteacher in the New York City commuter belt is $84,000 a year. That for middle school teachers is $85,800. For secondary school teachers, $90,000 a year. For VoTech teachers, its $83,000. For special ed teachers, it is $82,000 to $93,000 depending on the age of the students (with pre-school teachers receiving the highest compensation). Cash compensation for teachers is about 25% above the mean for the generic worker in the New York commuter belt.

            2. Data on median compensation for school teachers are not provided for specific commuter belts. Nationally, median compensation tends to be close to mean compensation, about 6% lower.

            3. For schoolteachers generally, fringe benefits are commonly generous, retirement programs in particular. Although it’s a white collar job, the median retirement age for schoolteachers (59) is four years lower than the median retirement age for the working population as a whole. I don’t think New York is an exception in this regard.

            4. Teachers are at work 180 days per year, rather than the 240 days which is normal for the rest of the working population.

            1. Absurd, as usual you seek to misrepresent numbers and this is a really good example. A teacher making $84,000 per year in NYC is probably living no better than a teacher making $50,000 a year in a small Midwestern city.

              We all know that NYC is one of the most expensive cities in the country in terms of living costs. Yet Absurd pretends that living costs are irrelevant.

              1. Absurd, as usual you seek to misrepresent numbers and this is a really good example. A teacher making $84,000 per year in NYC is probably living no better than a teacher making $50,000 a year in a small Midwestern city.

                Your complaint was anticipated and answered above.

                1. I guess if one balanced the teachers work year with the usual they would be earning 112,000 with fantastic benefits and a job with job security. I think teachers known to have battered students still get paid for sitting in a room doing nothing. They get tremendous discounts for Broadway theater and elsewhere. There is some subsidized housing for teachers and housing bonus’s available.

                2. Absurd, you’ve addressed it nowhere. It’s just your usual, stupid games.

                  A clean, single apartment in NYC can easily cost $3,000 per month. Whereas one could rent a deluxe 2 bedroom in Omaha, for instance, for maybe $800 per month.

                  In any event, the salaries paid NYC teachers wasn’t enough to make my nephew and his wife want to stick it out. And it was sad decision for both of them. My nephew’s wife is a native New Yorker who entered teaching with the best of intentions.

                  1. Hi guys i just met a young fellow who has relocated to flyover from Queens and purchased a couple houses. Super high grades and employment background.

                    Why ever would he desire to no longer reside in NYC?

                    Welcome to the hinterlands, neighbor

                    1. Kurtz remember the 1980’s movie Escape From New York? Manhattan Island becomes a prison. It’s a prison now with everyone locked in their homes but the wealthy have escaped to the Hamptons. That still leaves them as partial prisoners of NYS. which has around a $30 Billion budget deficit

                      The Peter Shills of the blog have their usual answer. Tax the rich. Guess what? NYS can’t tax the rich if they move outside of NYS. I am sure many are planning their escapes while NYS devises ways to tax anyone that leaves. Will that increase the panic. Let’s our econmic guru’s of the Peter Shill style explain economics to us.

                      What should NY do Peter?

                      Democrats Pushed NYC Into A Death Spiral, Cuomo BEGS Wealthy People To Return As MORE Flee Far Left

                    2. Heck yeah Snake Plissken. we’re not quite that bad yet but headed in the wrong direction

                  2. Everybody has to talk down to you. The answer to your question is right there in my comment.

                    As for sites which purport to measure regional living costs, I’m a trifle dubious about them because they presume a particular consumption bundle. However, the sites I consult calculate that the price of a particular bundle of goods and services they consider apposite is about 23% higher than a comparable bundle around Omaha. Since nominal income levels in New York are about 37% higher than national means, your real standard of living per this measure is typically 11% higher.

                    Nominal salaries for schoolteachers in the New York commuter belt are about 1/3 higher than national means, btw.

                  3. 800 per month, sounds amazing, sign me up for Omaha. 😉

                    In all seriousness though, ill probably just go to Central CA, say Paso Robles or Ojai, or even Ventura County, say Oxnard or Camarillo.

                    Anything is better than LA county prices.

            2. DSS – have you ever seen a pay ladder for teachers? They usually start at about 25K and work up with years of service and education added. Median pay is not a good indicator.

              1. You’ve been retired for a while:

                Currently, the 10th percentile of the salary distribution for elementary teachers is $39,000 a year. The 25th percentile is $47,000. It’s slightly higher for high school teachers. The median is about 1.5x the salary of those at the 10th percentile. Median figures are no more misleading for school teachers than they are for any other occupation.

                1. DSS – Whose figures are you using? Salaries are different from district to district, city to city, state to state.

                  1. Those are national figures compiled by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Above, I provided some figures compiled by the same agency, but for the New York commuter belt (which rambles over about 25 counties in New York and New Jersey).

                    1. DSS – California, Virginia and New York throw the stats off, I will add New Jersey, too. If you paid a starting teacher in South Dakota what a starting teaching in NYC was making, they would retire after 10 years. 😉 Arizona pays less because we have a lower cost of living.

                      When I was first looking for teaching jobs with a fresh BAE, the difference in pay from Arizona to California was 10 to 15k depending on the location. Even in Arizona, in the Phoenix area it would fluctuate as much as 5k between districts for starting pay. Richer districts paid more.

          2. Seth– It would not surprise me if the teachers were underpaid. Administrators of various types get far more money and contribute far less. Pay teachers more.

            1. Teachers are satisfactorily compensated and then some. Their working conditions need some amendment.

        4. ut according to officials from City University of New York, 80 percent of high school graduates in New York City can’t read.

          No, they didn’t say that.

      2. Young, one suspects that is precisely the intention. Social atomization and increased dependence on large institutions like government, universities, and global corporations.

        1. Kurtz– Might be their intention..Hard to believe they could make such a big, expensive pile of crap by accident.

            1. I want a new generation to experience the “performance art” phenomenons of my time

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m55RDNlWnLI

              We don’t need no education
              We don’t need no thought control
              No dark sarcasm in the classroom
              Teachers leave them kids alone
              Hey, teachers, leave them kids alone
              All in all it’s just another brick in the wall
              All in all you’re just another brick in the wall

              1. I like that song. Given what education is today it fits. My daughter gets angry when I tell my grandson most of his school is a waste of time.

    2. we often hear that program XYZ is racist because it produces bad outcomes for blacks. by that logic, these programs are also racist.

      brave new world.

        1. Young– you still don’t get it do you? White student unions are racist; black student unions are not. White student dorms are racist; black student dorms are not. White social organizations are racist; black social organizations are not. White students who work hard to achieve are privileged; black students who do not work hard are underprivileged. You know, come to think of it, I don’t get it either.

          1. Honest:

            “You know, come to think of it, I don’t get it either.”
            **************************
            Sure you do. One side are hopeless nihilists bent on domination and the other side are people of good faith trying to understand someone for whom “truth” is a means to a corrupt end.

            1. Power would appear to be the only way. The merely cunning always crave power; and the good must also be cunning and powerful to survive them.

              1. Honest, you fit the category of cvhicken s..t. You asked for an explanation of AA. I attempted top provide it for you. You could have said “Thanks, and now I get it!” or “you’re wrong and here’s why” . You’re a lawyer. Speak up.

                1. AA has been a little beneficial in some specific areas where ethnic composition of staff will help with necessary public compliance such as police

                  and yet, we see the BLM protesters insulting and attacking the black police– of which every big city has a very large component active on the force.

                  seems like a lot of things have gone off the rails of late.

                  other than that I think AA is bad because in its implementation it almost always means discriminating in favor of blacks and against nearly everyone else

                  in some places blacks retain secure employment berths not against a legacy population of whites, but a new population of hispancs, who are so numerous they do not get any benefit from AA. this is a dynamic in places with large proportions of hispanics. i am not sure we can find professors who have dared to write about it, but I know it is a thing in some places

                  if were were to be honest we would probably have to admit AA is actually just a special program to help blacks and pretty much nobody else.

  2. Another Turley look over here article to his base of Trump cultists. But if he must write about people getting jobs without merit or qualifications, he may look into who Trump has hired. Most likely, and history will record some of the most incompetent people on the planet to run our government.

    1. Please keep it up. The madness of the modern left is doing wonders for Trump! You’re turning registered Democrats I know into “Trump cultists.” It is a wonderful thing to see Dems you know wake up one day and say they’re voting for Trump because they can’t stand how modern lefties act. It’s funny to see Turley, another registered Democrat, be appalled at your behavior on a daily basis. And I enjoy your daily posts. TY.

  3. Affirmative Action is the basis for the Democrat pick for their candidate for Vice President of the country. That seems to be the unchallengeable standard these days, so who is this lowly professor to raise questions?

  4. Got an offspring who is thinking of college with the long-term benefit being a profession and good job. Think about buying and helping him or her establish a business. To hell with SAT and all that.

    1. A good business will return an investment faster than a university education these days. A lot of people are rethinking college for their children. Not really worth it in many cases. My friend’s daughter just got her MBA. She is working in Starbucks somewhere in Texas.

      1. On the other hand, if she had gotten her degree in Women’s Studies she could be working in a Starbucks somewhere in Texas.

          1. Probably a mistake Young. Lifetime earnings for college grads smokes non-grads and a degree is a basic requirement for employment in many – doesn’t matter in what,

        1. Unless one is going into real subjects, college these days is like signing a promissory note for a hundred thousand or more and getting nothing in return. You start life impoverished by a corrupt system of higher education. If all you want to do is get drunk and meet girls, which is one value college still provides, you can do it for a lot less and in a legally safer and morally superior environment like a bar or whorehouse. Seems if you are a guy on campus these days you are automatically a rapist. Stay away.

        2. I would like it if Elon Musk or others like them started real universities teaching things that would actually help someone working for Intel or Microsoft. Forget the corrupt accreditation system. If they stick to real courses the school would accredit itself and its certificates would guarantee that the holder was ready to pitch in. I read that Silicon Valley is already ignoring much of college work and is looking for genuine knowledge however acquired. This would help.

          1. People who can get jobs in real companies are learning the technical subjects OJT

            enterpreneurs learn it on the fly

            universities cultivate poor character, bad habits, and most of all, sucking up to phonies in the system

            now’s a good time for boys to make a stab at full time employment right out of high school– and develop some perspective and maturity
            they can always go to school later

        3. If they are boys they better be in STEM or it’s a dubious value

          white girls can still study humanities or business and get affirmative action berths– white boys need not apply

          but if the boys can do STEM it’s definitely worth it

          if I had to do it over now I would not become a lawyer, I would have got an MBA and aimed for a job in finance.

  5. Would you hire an admissions director who is supposed to implement an affirmative action program who does not believe in affirmative action? This guy was only removed from being head of a fellowship program which, I would assume, involves selecting students to be fellows.

    It is almost the Trump administration view in hiring. Hire an EPA Director who does not believe in protecting the environment. Hire people who are supposed to enforce voting rights who do not believe in voting rights. Hire someone to run the Postal Service who does not believe in the Postal Service.

    1. Hugh:

      Yeah, who needs merit based hiring IN MEDICINE. We gots identity politics and the consequences of incompetence be damned. What’s a few dead bodies compared to liberals feeling good about their decrepit old selves?

      1. Given that until only recently members of certain races were denied admission, and that legacy admissions still occur, we have never had purely merit based hirings or admissions.

        1. Bookless:

          “Given that until only recently members of certain races were denied admission, and that legacy admissions still occur, we have never had purely merit based hirings or admissions.”
          ************************

          Utter bullshark but you can believe any fantasy you like. “Recently” being pre-1965 and then maybe you’re in the ballpark.

          1. Mespo– I said essentially the same below. It is as if the last 55 years didn’t exist for these people. They would bring back slavery if they could so they could whine about it. They still pretend it was almost yesterday that we had slavery. Oddly they never have a bad word for slavery in the Muslim world or slave like conditions in parts of China.

            1. Young, you and mespo avoid the facts:

              1. AA in college admissions is a sometimes practice and not done at all in some states. In hiring it applies only to governmental and large corporations and not at all to small businesses, which hire most Americans.
              2. If preferential hiring and admissions casts doubt on AA beneficiaries, it does also on whites who benefited by racism.
              3. The results of racial discrimination and even segregation (preceded by slavery) do not disappear in a couple of generations. Those results include economic and cultural disadvantages.

              1. Bookless:

                Yeah people are different with different skills and experiences. You wanna level that out by force? Knock yourself out — literally. Let’s mandate that no more than 16% of all players on pro athletic teams can be AA. See how stupid your conclusions are. I guess you don’t.

        2. As we speak, Gainesville, about 14% of fall matriculants at baccalaureate granting institutions are black. That, even though the scores blacks receive on college board and achievement tests tend to be about 0.9 standard deviations below those of the general population. That suggests about half of the black youths matriculating would be in community college or out working absent mulligans granted by admissions officials (and that most of those admitted are mismatched with the institution they attend). Now, 14% of the matriculants are black, but only 10% of the degrees awarded are to blacks. That suggests that about 30% of the blacks admitted are ill-adapted to their matrix in a way the rest of the student body is not. The distribution of blacks and non-blacks between degree programs is roughly similar with one qualification: black students tend to be very shy about math-intensive majors.

          Legacy admissions are a feature of private research universities and swank private colleges. These account for about 10% of the enrollment in baccalaureate-granting institutions. I once knew the chairman of the faculty committee concerned with these issues at her institution and she admitted that about 8% of the admitted students were legacies or had a political connection. Given the culture of that particular institution as compared with it’s peers, I’d wager that % would be at the high end of what’s done at private research universities and private colleges. What that metric indicates is that 8% had this connection, not that the connection was decisive. If they’re like an ordinary youth cohort and resemble their parents the way ordinary youths do, 2/3 of them actually did meet customary performance metrics (which another faculty member told me consisted of a vector equation). Actual cases where legacy status is decisive are a tiny minority of matriculating students. They’re not readily recognizable on campus, do not form subcultures, and are not otherwise coddled by institutions.

          So, here you are complaining about 30,000 mulligans being granted to the children of donors to private institutions contra 400,000 to 700,000 mulligans granted at public and private institutions at a time when the latter is a companion piece to faculty-hiring policies as well and when any employee who objects gets harassed and or fired.

          1. If someone admitted to a university is not up to doing the academic work he can always raise hell on campus.

          2. Absurd, the point is not that there are more or equal numbers of legacy admissions as AA admissions now, but that given that most or all will be white, the cloud that AA opponents say hangs over the heads of blacks with degrees also hangs over whites, since some had special advantages. This is especially true of older posters hear like Honest who went to school in a period where if outright racial discrimination against blacks did not apply, it was soon enough afterwards that very few blacks would have the wherewithal, let alone clue to compete with him for admissions. The legacy of white racism did not end with a stoke of a pen and remains to this day.

            1. Only a limited number of universities clog their admissions with legacy admission. Those schools limit blacks, whites, hispanics, asians and everyone else in the same way so everyone is in the same boat. Stop complaining. Find a university that doesn’t have a legacy admission. Try and get a merit, arts or athletic scholarship. If your abilities aren’t up to par go to a community college and get caught up. The opportunies become limited when people will only avail themselves of the easy pathway given by others.

              Most of this complaining is BS looking for easy solutions which only perpetuate the problem.

              If we have exceptional STEM students that are poor and we desire to help them then do so but not based on race. Send the one’s that are missing certain necessaties to a preparatory school. Reading is something one does at home and math is something that has to be practiced. If one refuses to do either then the university won’t be of very much use.

            2. Absurd, the point is not

              Oh yes that is the point. The point is inconvenient to your thesis. Your thesis stinks.

    2. Maybe it’s the one thing Trump got right when he said he only hires the “best people” He has and will hire anyone who can screw it up so bad as to almost destroy it. Look what he did with the Justice Department. And the Interior Department and the economy and the EPA and the Education Department and ……etc.. etc. etc.. etc

    3. …your TDS is showing. Go smoke a joint or do something productive. You know, something different in your life. Perhaps you won’t feel like such a loser…

  6. Twice, I chose college programs that I wasn’t very well prepared for. I took it upon myself each time to get myself prepared before engaging the more demanding curriculum of my majors.

    It never occurred to me that the system should somehow accommodate my lack of preparedness.

    Instead, I just assumed I should compete for what I wanted to accomplish.

  7. This is telling us medical schools are accepting and graduating substandard physicians just because they hold a specific minority status. What does that tell the public? It tells them that the specific minority as a whole is less competent than the rest. How does that benefit the minority group when good physicians in that group are suspected of being substandard physicians?

    Wouldn’t it be better to bring offer special training before medical school to bring them up to speed or make them better than average?

    1. “Wouldn’t it be better to bring offer special training before medical school to bring them up to speed or make them better than average?”

      Yes, of course. Thomas Sewell has been making this same point for years, if not decades.

      1. By the time you are applying to medical school you should already have a degree with a good GPA in a hard science like biology. From personal observation I can tell you those courses are harder than most medical school courses. If those courses haven’t prepared you nothing will.

      2. Democrats are fools. They only think about the seen, not the unseen, Bastiat. I said that for John Say’s benefit. If one makes them better than all others people will flock to them.

        Many places in the south were anti-Semitic but a lot of anti-Semites would look for Jewish doctors. They thought they were the smartest and perhaps they were. The medical schools had quota systems so many better qualified Jewish students were not accepted into the medical schools and only the top of the cream were. That was selection that caused anti-Semites to accept Jewish doctors. Enigma and his friends should learn from that.

        1. Jewish quotas were a feature of private institutions during the period running from about 1915 to 1945. I think it was something you saw in undergraduate admissions and academic graduate programs, not professional schools.

    2. Allan, My neighbor has a liberal friend who is all in on the left agenda. But when he got sick he asked for a referral to a white, Asian, or Indian doctor. Why not black? You are liberal. ” But this my life we are talking about man!”

      The loss in trust in credentialed minorities because of affirmative action is real. I bet even Book would make that calculation when it was his health at stake.

  8. Could someone explain to me how affirmative action is not racist? Isn’t it based on the premise that blacks and some other minorities simply are not capable of competing with other races or ethnic groups? During the Bush years this was described aptly as the racism of low expectations. Today, among all democrats and many others, it has replaced social security as the third rail of politics.

    1. Sure Honest.

      AA is based on the fact that blacks had been systematically denied entrance to jobs and educational institutions for several hundred years, and that each generation does not start out equally at birth, but enjoying – or not – the accumulated wealth and social advantages won by previous generations. Even after the CR Acts of the mid-sixties, many institutions still formally had categories for “legacy” admissions. Informally, many to most whites also enjoy the informal favor of hiring by others of their race who more easily identify with them. This is not a conspiracy, – usually – but human nature. Given that most jobs are in small businesses which are not governed by AA, preferential hiring still applies.

      The idea that blacks who are AA beneficiaries are suspect also means that most white people hired by small businesses, or admitted to schools before AA, are also suspect beneficiaries of preferential treatment.

      1. Book, you have said blacks are born with inherent disabilities but are good at jumping. Racist.

        How many blacks do you have working in your business?

        As for your opening paragraph about eons of discrimination, blacks have enjoyed advantages denied to others for about 55 years at least. Government set asides make blacks eligible for lucrative contracts others cannot get. It is called the 8a program. Blacks are eligible for government sponsored business loans others cannot get. Blacks have had standards lowered so they can qualify for jobs in law enforcement and government in general. At least one federal agency prohibited giving typing tests to people applying for jobs as typists. Standards are lowered for blacks applying to universities. Now everything seems to be valued or discarded on the basis of whether or not it upsets some black person. It goes on without end but the whining never stops.

      2. Ha! Ha! Ha! What lies and idiocy. We have spent trillions in the past 50 years on LBJ’s “Great Society”. Where did all that cash go? How many Doctors did it produce? Engineers? Architects? Instead we have a huge population of non-educated -gang-banging-killers who’s best thought of the day is to smoke some heroin and go shoot one of their ethnic or racial brothers or sister. Grow up, get a real job and stop trolling stupid ideas that no one accepts, except racists such as yourself…

        1. “Where did all that cash go?”
          **

          Probably into the pockets of politically connected hacks, studies, committees to investigate, bureaucrats and politicians.

          Have you noticed that the more money spent on the homeless the more homeless we get?

          It is almost as if filling the parks and sidewalks with as many homeless as possible is a public works project, like building a dam.

      3. Take note how it is the progressive that prevents black people from going to charter schools where they have a better chance of being educated.

        Let’s open up our public schools so the money follows the student not visa versa. Let’s concentrate on paying teachers more and bureaucrats less along with firing bad teachers. Let’s look at the benefit packages given to those paid through school budgets but aren’t teaching. Let’s not permit shifting of money around in school systems to make the budgets look right when they aren’t.

        1. Allan– It appears that black children do do much better in charter schools but they are bad because they don’t profit unions and Democrats.

          1. Go to Uncommon Knowledge at Hoover and listen to Thomas Sowell being interviewed on his latest book, Schools.

            Schools are so important to the disadvantaged. That is why the democrat elite hate Charter schools and keep destroying public education. They use private schools for their children. Elite democrats know that Charter schools might teach black kids that they can be anything they want if they leave the plantation.

          2. Young,
            It may be due, in part, to selection. Parents in lousy school districts who want their kids to get a good education take the time to switch their kids into charter schools for a shot at something better. The public schools are left with those whose parents may not be paying the same degree of attention.

            1. Rose, that’s precisely the case: ‘Private schools drain off the most promising while public schools have to keep the laggards’. For this very reason private schools are undeserving of public money. Yet Republicans have sought to drain public schools of money to punish the teachers’ unions for their continued lack of support for Republican candidates. And Betsy DeVos is the face of this whole effort.

              1. If the public schools were decent a lot of people wouldn’t be sending children to private schools. It is the progressive that is front and center destroying public education. In one state some idiot is advocating getting rid of history from the school system.

                Encourage Charter Schools and permit the money to follow the student. Provide competition and get rid of the teachers union when they are abusive. Abuse by the teachers union was proven in New Jersey with video’s.

                1. Allan–“If the public schools were decent a lot of people wouldn’t be sending children to private schools”

                  That is precisely the point. Fortunes are spent on education and we are getting a poor return for the investment when it is better to pay for a private school than send your child to a public school.

                  Eliminate teacher’s unions completely.

                  1. All my children went to private schools, private colleges and private graduate schools. When I added all of the costs up I realized I could have bought a bunch of McDonald’s franchises dividing them up among the children and they would have been well off.

                    Decades ago I was in a McDonald’s whose manager and owner was there. He was a young black kid who only graduated from high school and worked his way up to manager and then they permitted him to buy the franchise. He was working his way to buying a second one at the time. Who says hard work doesn’t pay off?

                    1. I did something like that for students. I put up a spreadsheet showing their earnings year by year if they had chosen plumbing instead of medicine one. It took a long time to catch the plumbers. With McDonald franchises I am not sure they ever would.

                    2. Young – the ideal is not to own just one McDonald’s franchise, but several. You start with one and try to get to at least 5, depending on where you live.

              2. I am not sure charter schools drain off the most promising students. It is what I would expect but I have also read that some charter schools have done very well with the same students who were learning little in public school.

                As for punishing the teacher’s unions for always supporting Democrats, I am all for it. Lay on the lash. How many Pelosies can the country afford?

              3. Private schools drain off the most promising while public schools have to keep the laggards’. For this very reason private schools are undeserving of public money.

                You have an odd understanding of who the customer is. Private schools and public schools are competing for students. It’s a business like anything else. And if they want the business, then offer a better product. Are the teacher’s unions incentivized to offer a better product? Do you believe after paying property taxes that go to fund public schools, parents want to pay for private schools? Do you believe parents shouldn’t expect to receive back money they’ve been forced to pay for an inferior education system and have the choice to spend it on the system that provides their children the education they desire? Are the People in service to the state, or is the state in service to the People?

                1. I dumped private for my kids and moved to public. The public on the ground in this nook of flyover are better. Some at least. Strange but true

                2. Public schools require providing education for residents of their district, including those most challenged. This not true for charter schools.

                    1. Olly, you said privates and public are competing for students. However, public schools by virtue of their responsibilities are at a decided disadvantage and the “competition” is not equitable.

                    2. If a business like public education is forced to accept raw material (students) that are not suitable for the standard educational process, then they need to create a separate business unit and create a process to educate those students differently. In our community, those students that meet that criteria attend a public school option specifically to address those needs. There are charter schools and private schools that parents can choose that offer the public school curriculum, but with unique educational approaches. It’s only a disadvantage if the traditional public schools are funded based on enrollment and they are wont to release students to these other educational paths.

                  1. Anon – all public schools in AZ are required to provided education for those most challenged, including Charter Schools. What they do is try to convince the parent that another school would be a better fit, if not they are on the hook for the costs, even though they do not have the faculty, staff or facilities for them. Usually, the charter school will pay another district to take them, with the fees coming out the the charter schools funds.

                    1. Other states have co-operative service districts for that sort of thing.

                  2. Some Charter schools are by lottery only. In one smapling the charter schools by lottery proved to be better than the public schools

                    No matter how one looks at it the competition charter schools provide can help make public schools better.

                    The money should follow the child.

              4. Seth W.,
                I am not entirely in favor of charter schools. I do see the problems and I do not think they are necessarily the best answer (perhaps least bad???). What if the problems in a subset of public schools is so entrenched that no amount of advocacy by parents and concerned citizens is going to change it for the better?

                Maybe moving to a better district is better. Sometimes that is easier said than done.

                1. I am not entirely in favor of charter schools.

                  Prairie Rose,
                  Why? Do you believe parents shouldn’t have the freedom to choose where their children get educated? Charter schools offer another option beyond traditional public schools. This doesn’t mean charter schools are always the better option. They are an option that also forces the public school monopoly to improve or be put out of business.

                  1. That said, I also see this as an important element of self-governance. Having a community come together to educate the community’s children is an important feature of people working democratically to develop their communities.

                    That’s a fiction, and one you would do well of which to disabuse yourself. You’re on the payroll, aren’t you?

                  2. TIA,
                    I am not ‘on the payroll’. I homeschool. I also care about the education of kids in my community and I come from an area where local control and community support of schools is a big deal.

                    Why do you think ‘it’s a fiction’? Why do you think public education is not an element of self-governance?

                    1. Why do you think public education is not an element of self-governance?

                      It ceased being a legitimate element of self-governance when it was consumed by the teacher’s unions.

                  3. The people of a community have a say in how their tax dollars are spent with a public school.

                    They don’t have a say if they don’t want to buy the public school option. Would you have no objections if you were taxed to pay for the substandard public healthcare option and you had to spend more to get private healthcare?

                  4. Olly,
                    “Why do you think public education is not an element of self-governance?

                    It ceased being a legitimate element of self-governance when it was consumed by the teacher’s unions.”

                    That strikes me as an argument against abusive teacher’s unions rather than public education.

                    1. That strikes me as an argument against abusive teacher’s unions rather than public education.

                      Of course. Show me an industry where the workers produce a product that fails and then they are rewarded with an increase in benefits, paid by the very customers they failed. Now that is a powerful lobby. Does that make the teachers bad? That depends. Are they part of the solution or part of the problem?

                      What makes public education today, public? How much of it does the public influence? I’ve gone to board meetings and parents are essentially tolerated. The school boards are elected in, but they are being driven by forces outside their districts.

                      None of this means public education in principle isn’t a civic good. It’s still funded by the taxpayers, but like government itself, controlled by unions and lobbyists, not moms and dads.

                  5. Olly,
                    “The people of a community have a say in how their tax dollars are spent with a public school.

                    They don’t have a say if they don’t want to buy the public school option.”

                    Of course you do. If you pay taxes in a district, you can most certainly voice your opinion at school board meetings. Even when I homeschooled all of my kids, I still went to school board meetings, not as much as I should have, I admit, but I did go. Now I homeschool two and two go to public school. I definitely go because I realized I was messing up by not going. Not everyone has the luxury I have to homeschool or send their kids to private school; they should still get the best education possible.

                    “Would you have no objections if you were taxed to pay for the substandard public healthcare option and you had to spend more to get private healthcare?”

                    I would definitely have objections and I would voice them to my representatives. I already get quite a bit of my healthcare sideways from the mainstream because functional medicine has been much better for healing any chronic health issues we’ve had.

                    1. Prairie Rose,
                      There’s one more thing that’s being overlooked. If a business is consistently rewarded for producing failed products, at what point do we shift our paradigm and recognize that the product is exactly what was desired? Wouldn’t that explain why there is opposition to any competing school options?

                  6. If you pay taxes in a district, you can most certainly voice your opinion at school board meetings.

                    Even if they don’t ignore you (and when you control an 85% market share, you can afford to ignore people), they are enmeshed in a Gulliver’s web of restraints by the federal executive, the state executive, the state board of regents, the courts at all levels, and the unions.

                    What you’re not acknowledgeing is that schooling is a fee-for-service activity that emerges naturally on the open market. There is no point to having public agencies as delivery vehicles except in remote areas or in regard to niche clientele.

                  7. TIA,
                    “Even if they don’t ignore you (and when you control an 85% market share, you can afford to ignore people), they are enmeshed in a Gulliver’s web of restraints by the federal executive, the state executive, the state board of regents, the courts at all levels, and the unions.”

                    They might be able to ignore one person. But they cannot ignore a sizable cohort of people. It doesn’t change over-night, but school board members can be voted out. Administrators can be turned out. Children can be taught, if need be, without teachers if nasty games like ‘we will go on strike and not teach your kids’ starts getting played unjustly.

                    I am well aware of ‘Gulliver’s web’. We are facing it in my district and people in my community are starting to rise against it.

                    “What you’re not acknowledging is that schooling is a fee-for-service activity that emerges naturally on the open market. There is no point to having public agencies as delivery vehicles except in remote areas or in regard to niche clientele.”

                    Not for the most vulnerable amongst us. Churches, relying on parishioners’ tithes, taught children who had no other means of education prior to advent of public schooling. The Methodists at the behest of John Wesley did this amongst other great ways of uplifting the least of these. There are still communities out there who take the administration of public agencies seriously.

                  8. Where did our conversation go?

                    Maybe the link was problematic.

                    Olly,
                    I do believe parents should have that freedom. You and I both homeschool our kids, so we are utilizing that freedom.

                    That said, I also see this as an important element of self-governance. Having a community come together to educate the community’s children is an important feature of people working democratically to develop their communities. It connects people and gives a community a focus to build a strong future since their collective future includes the families and children in a given community. If we cannot think about the future, we begin to stagnate, so a community effort towards supporting the futures of youngsters is healthy for the community as a whole. The community elects representatives from amongst themselves to make the decisions for the school district, including the hiring of the administration and teachers. Members of the community, whether or not they have kids currently being educated there, have a responsibility to pay attention to the quality of education occurring in the schools because that will affect who chooses to stay in the district and who chooses to move in. They should attend school board meetings, attend the school functions, and talk to their elected representatives. The people of a community, whether they have kids attending the schools or not, have a say in how their tax dollars are spent with a public school. Same goes for the City Council. This local level self-governance undergirds other areas of self-governance.

                    Charter schools separate education from self-governance. However, I also understand that sometimes parents feel like they have no other choice. The system of accountability and self-governance are thwarted by ignorance, apathy, and corruption on the part of too many people in certain communities. Those that care about their kids getting a solid education are left adrift because no matter how much they advocate for improvement, they are brushed aside, ignored, or figure they do not have time to fight the lead-footed system before their child(ren) graduate, which is too late for them. I don’t blame parents for heading to charter schools at this point. I enjoyed the Dave Rubin podcast with Katherine Birbalsingh about her British ‘charter’ school The Michaela School.

                    That said, charter schools, as far as I can tell, do not allow people to determine the quality of education going on in the schools because the charter schools are not really beholden to the people of a given community. They also divide and conquer potential complaints. Not intentionally, but if there is more than one charter school in an area, people cannot see within enough of the black boxes that are the charter schools to voice their concerns. If my tax dollars are going to 5 different charter schools plus the public school (and that is not clear, typically, in the news)–how can I see in what manner those dollars are being spent? Perhaps every cent is being used in an outstanding manner, or maybe it isn’t–I cannot tell. I can see a little of the waste in a charter school near me only because I have friends whose kids attend it.

                    I am very torn on this issue. The pros and cons are so variable depending on the situations and locales.

                    1. Where did our conversation go?

                      Darren’s fed up with the lot of us, that’s where it went. Darren’s a normal person with normal person interests and as a penance he’s taken on the task of policing us.

                    2. Prairie Rose – here in AZ the money follows the student for the first 100 days of school and then all funding stops. So, you estimate what your student starting population and then pray they all show up. The state gives you money based on that estimate and then more as the 100 days goes on.

                      Here we have charter schools for at-risk, arts, STEM, basics, computer only, etc.

      4. AA is based on the fact that blacks had been systematically denied entrance to jobs and educational institutions for several hundred years,

        They haven’t and it isn’t. If race-bars to state universities (and private colleges) in the South had been the salient factor regulating the number of blacks in higher education, the disparities would have dissolved when the race bars were removed. If preparation time had been the salient factor, the disparities should have dissipated as the quantum of time devoted to primary and secondary schooling (on either side of the color bar) converged. It had converged by 1959, so deficits of preparation time should not have been of much consequence after 1970. If financing was the issue, the availability of federal grants and loans after 1965 should have addressed the matter (and, of course, schools could have rejiggered their discounts). If quality of preparation was the issue, higher education sachems would have been banging the drums for improvement in the effectiveness of slum schools, which they haven’t been.

        Admitting underprepared blacks doesn’t benefit either party to the transaction. The institution either has to stand back and allow the students to fail in large numbers, institute a policy of grade inflation, or invest a great deal in remedial education of dubious effectiveness. As for the student, he’s sidetracked from attending a program better adapted to his actual talents and skills. As for the other students, masses of underprepared blacks knocking about is not going to improve their opinion of the school performance of blacks.

        The truth is, schools practice AA due to the dynamic of status competition among the sort of haut bourgeois who work in schools. (Some of it’s also legal prophylaxis). The courts allow them to maintain multiple sets of admissions standards and to do so quite blatantly. Judges move in the same social matrices.

        1. actually tons of it is legal prophylaxis. the bigger the pool, the more they believe that they need to apply AA to avoid lawsuits

          and they are right about this.

          the program designers are responding to laws. get the Congress and judges to change the law and AA could evaporate.

          but the blacks, who are almost always the beneficiaries of AA as opposed to other subsets,but the blacks would howl over changing anything

          hey, they might even just riot and burn the cities! oh wait– they’re doing that already, because a bad guy croaked when a bad cop collared him in a rough way.
          and now they want to “Defund police” ha ha talk about insanity. We might as well just agree to let them take over entirely and then we can be their slaves.
          that is precisely the intention, you understand this people, right?> to make us willing slaves of them.
          that is always the aim of organized power: MORE POWER. EQUALITY IS ALWAYS A LIE

          now imagine how much they would go bananas if you ended AA

          I m going out on a limb here. Nothing will change until white people are NO LONGER AFRAID OF THE WORD RACIST.

    2. Honest: Isn’t [affirmative action] based on the premise that blacks and some other minorities simply are not capable of competing with other races or ethnic groups?

      ***

      That is exactly what it is.

      1. So before the 1960’s the premise must have been that whites were not capable of competing with other races and ethnic groups, and now that 2 generations have passed, white people are eager to call everything even-Steven while ignoring the facts of accumulated wealth and advantages across generations.

        Do I have that right? You guys are the smart lawyers. Help me out.

        1. Book: “You guys are the smart lawyers. Help me out.”

          ***

          I think we have come to the conclusion you might be beyond help. There is no affirmative action for facts and logic.

        2. No, the premise in the Southern United States was that blacks and whites should associate only on a patron-client basis, which did not include occupying the same space with the same status. The premise elsewhere (where admissions processes were unfair) was that there were too few blacks able to handle the material to be worth bothering about (likely conjoined to the notion that blacks could not be professional equals).

        3. I could care less what happened 60 years ago or older, if there is a program that screws me or anybody because white, I am against it.

          Why>? Easy answer, I am white and not brain dead, that’s why.

          We have a right to exist and prosper, because we do exist. Like it or not. History of this and that is besides the point of now.
          If anything, history shows groups which voluntarily surrender, regret it!

          Government programs which obviously operate to benefit the blacks and hardly anybody else– oh, the bureaucrats too of course, snicker, yeah, that is, blacks and the Democrats who always administer the programs; these are awful unfair rotten programs which should be cancelled whatever the linguistic framing and excuses which surround them. Cancel, everywhere, now.

    3. Honest:
      “Could someone explain to me how affirmative action is not racist?”
      ********************************
      It’s discriminatory and SCOTUS admits as much. It’s just “good discrimination” in violation of the 14th Amendment. As you know, our ruling class is nothing if not irresistibly hypocritical.

  9. The only thing more unsettling than the actions of the university was the relative silence of his colleagues throughout the University of Pittsburgh as he was punished for expressing his academic views.

    Guess what? Academics are people of low character. So, why do we allow academics who are state employees this sort of discretion?

  10. College campuses and the anti-intellectuals who are running them are following an orthodoxy similar to the “thought cleansing” of Chavez, Fidel Castro, and much of the Islamic regimes in today’s world. It is reminiscent of the Mao and Stalin Marxists of decades ago as well. Unfortunately, the Democrats have moved themselves so far to the Left and right into the arms of these ideologues that they are no longer representative of America’s Constitution or values. If there are any actual moderate Democrats, they must now stand up and say violent revolution combined with the “thought cleansing” is an abomination and antithetical to the USA. PS – I have seen stats showing how Med School Admissions dramatically favors one demographic over others by not using objective evaluative tools, but using immutable human characteristics and ethniciy for admissions purposes. Unfortunately this has biased my view of certain medical professionals – exactly the opposite of what was intended.

  11. Another thought is that it appears to be racist to say that universities should not turn out subpar physicians to serve minorities.

  12. The outrage at this typically fascist behavior has to increase and make itself know in a greater way. Otherwise America will fall to the same levels as the right wing oligarchies in Eastern Europe, China, and Russia. Extremes tend to meet each other if allowed to fester unchecked.

    1. During the period of cultural revolution in China, the enrollment into universities are close to 100% based on politics merit and not academic qualifications.

      1. The major mistake Americans make is placing socialism in with dictatorships such as is found in China, Russia, etc. The US and most of the advanced nations practice varying degrees of socialism through democracy. The various degrees of socialism stabilize the economies and advance the nations so protecting the rights of individuals. It is not the other way around. The countries are not strong due to individuals protecting the whole but the whole protecting the individuals. The freedoms, rights, and advantages of the individuals are goals, made and protected by the state. The lubricant or active ingredient is democratic representation. The US is a democracy of two choices, one more than a dictatorship. Russia, China, and some other countries are dictatorships with one choice. The bottom line in all countries is basically the freedoms and rights of individuals. When these are curtailed to a point, extreme measures are taken, such as revolution, to regain them. This is so in all nations.

        Dictatorship, or restriction of choice, in various forms to various degrees exists in all nations. The most pervasive, in varying degrees, is oligarchy. The governments of China and Russia are oligarchical to extreme degrees taking those countries to the point of dictatorship. However, the individual when compromised enough will respond making changes to the dictatorship. The government of the US is oligarchical to the degree that the social welfare and advantages of the citizen are curtailed in ways that are justified perversely through the myths of choice and rights. The for profit health care industry that perversely advertises health care as a choice and not a right and expounds a philosophy that is a mythology of choice is an example of the oligarchical part of the US government. This parasitical element results in Americans paying twice as much for a substandard level of health care, per capita when compared to countries that treat the health of their citizens as rights guaranteed through a socialist perspective and not a consumer product.

        During certain times in the US and other Western nations, left leaning philosophies expressed by applicants to universities and jobs limited entrance. Now the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Newton’s third law at work and hopefully the pendulum will swing back and forth to find a stable center that include both left and right perspectives. The one force that guarantees the extreme is the opposite and opposing extreme force. The lack of accountability in the government and police is the force that has caused the pendulum to swing to the opposite direction to the extreme as detailed in this Pittsburgh University situation. Extremes invite extremes. When the governing institutions remove immunity and protection from their operatives, the police as well as the elected and appointed representatives, the opposing extremes will reduce in their degree of autocracy.

        The riots were less a result of George Floyd being killed by a police officer who was still a cop because his undesirable attributes had been protected for so long than of the fact that the status quo was being followed with the circumstances being placed under investigation, as so many times before. The riots were fueled by the lack of accountability of the society to its individuals. The individual responded. This is happening in China, Europe, the US, etc.

  13. Another disturbing purge. Logically, only the most qualified people should get into medical school, not people who check off certain affirmative action boxes. Seeing a half-qualified surgeon, for example, is not something that many of us would want to go through. Yes, you can make yourself feel better by seeking a surgeon based solely on his race, but it’s hard to virtue signal when you’re a cadaver.

    1. Many of the most qualified people stopped going to med school quite a while ago. Started in the 80’s when everyone decided they wanted to be lawyers or investment bankers. Same time a lot of practicing physicians dropped out, became fed up with rising (often frivolous) litigation, bureaucratic headaches and so forth. As a result med schools and the AMA faced a looming shortage of applicants. What to do about it was debated openly in journals, what they decided to do was lower admissions standards for incoming students to fill up the rosters. This made it far easier to give in to demands for racial quotas. Doctors aren’t masters of the universe anymore, in case you haven’t noticed. They’re slowly morphing into automotive technicians or the equivalent, as the general health care system disintegrates around them. Some good some bad most you’d better be good at using Google to double check any of their recommendations.

  14. LBJ and his “Great Society” we suffer from this failed anthropological experiment to this day.

    1. This has nothing to do with the Great Society. It’s about institutional politics and status signaling among the haut bourgeois.

  15. This is what you see happen in countries where the socialist are taking power. All that do not support the official narrative, dogma, are purged. At first they are just fired, later they are executed. We not far from the execution phase of this socialist take over.

  16. As a physician, I am disgusted that another physician would be so craven as to punish another over a difference in opinion, especially as that punishment is loose of an academic position. Dr London, find and publish alternate views, that is what academic conversation is about. But don’t be a sniveling weasel. Stand up for academic honesty and freedom.

  17. ASU used to have a program with the community college system to teach remedial classes to get black and Hispanic students up to snuff for regular classes. ASU did not teach remedial classes.

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