We previously discussed whether the niece of President Donald Trump, Mary Trump, committed defamation in her recent tell-all book with a passage claiming that President Trump used a surrogate to take his SAT exam to gain entrance to the Penn’s Wharton School. Mary Trump has been hit by criticism that the person identified as fraudulently taking the test had not even met Donald Trump until after he started taking classes at Penn, according to his widow. In response, Mary Trump released a secret recording of President Donald Trump’s sister, retired federal judge Maryanne Trump Barry (left), The recording does contain the allegation and the question is whether it is enough legally if indeed the story was false.“Wiretapping” means the intentional overhearing or recording of a telephonic or telegraphic communication by a person other than a sender or receiver thereof, without the consent of either the sender or receiver, by means of any instrument, device or equipment.
The answer is that it is not a crime, just crass. You do not go to jail for being crass in a one-party consent state. Even without knowing that she was being recorded, Barry expressed concern that she was “talking too freely” but then again she was talking privately with her niece. Right?
It is a truly rotten thing to do to a family member, but this family is not exactly the Waltons. Indeed, Mary seems to show the same consequentialism or relative morality that she ascribes to her uncle.
The recording is devastatingly blunt and embarrassing. Judge Trump responded to the comment by her brother that he might have to send her to the border to deal with all of the immigration issues. Barry was is recorded saying “All he wants to do is appeal to his base. He has no principles. None. None. And his base, I mean my God, if you were a religious person, you want to help people. Not do this.” She goes on lament President Trump’s penchant for lying: “The change of stories. The lack of preparation. The lying. Holy shit.” She notes that “he doesn’t read” and lacks any sense of compassion or comprehension: “It’s the phoniness of it all. It’s the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel.”
It also appears that his niece fits much of the same bill.
Now for the torts question. The SAT allegation appears to have been raised without prompting by Barry who was explaining how she got President Trump into college: “He was a brat . . . I did his homework for him” . . . “I drove him around New York City to try to get him into college.” Then she said this: “He went to Fordham for one year [actually two years] and then he got into University of Pennsylvania because he had somebody take the exams.”
Mary Trump responds “No way! He had somebody take his entrance exams?” Barry then confirms it and says “SATs or whatever … That’s what I believe. I even remember the name.” She identified that person as Joe Shapiro.
Mary Trump then writes the following in her book:
“Donald worried that his grade point average, which put him far from the top of the class, would scuttle his efforts to get accepted. To hedge his bets he enlisted Joe Shapiro, a smart kid with a reputation for being a good test taker, to take his SATs for him. That was much easier to pull off in the days before photo IDs and computerized records. Donald, who never lacked for funds, paid his buddy well.”
As noted earlier, the problem with this account is that Shapiro, who died of cancer in 1999, met Trump at the University of Pennsylvania, at least according to his family. His widow, former tennis champion Pam Shriver, was outraged by the allegation against her late husband who she said was known as a person of the highest integrity.
Let assume for the purposes of tort analysis that the story is untrue. Would the secret recording meet that standard for defamation?
When it comes to the Shapiro family, there is no risk of a defamation lawsuit. That raises the issue of “defaming the dead” and a common law doctrine. The common law rule is that “you cannot defame the dead,” which of course means in practical terms that you can defame the dead. Once again, I have long been a critic of that rule, here. Publishers and movie producers often wait for figures to die to have full license to defame them with no recourse to the family. As I said in 2007:
“Indeed, while most people are raised not to speak ill of the dead, the law fully supports those who do. Under the common-law rules governing defamation, a reputation is as perishable as the person who earned it. It is a rule first expressed in the Latin doctrine actio personalis moritur cum persona (“a personal right of action dies with the person”). The English jurist Sir James Stephen put it more simply in 1887, “The dead have no rights and can suffer no wrongs.” In other words, you’re fair game as soon as you die — even if writers say viciously untrue things about you and your life.”
The current controversy highlights the unfairness and harm caused by this common law rule.
However, President Trump could sue. The standard for defamation for public figures and officials in the United States is the product of a decision decades ago in New York Times v. Sullivan. President Trump would have to prove that his niece had “actual malice” where she had actual knowledge of the falsity of a statement or showed reckless disregard whether it was true or false. The failure to confirm these facts of when the two men first met would be a compelling claim despite the high burden created by the Supreme Court.
But she had a source. Not only did Judge Barry say that this was a fact but that she had personal knowledge of the scheme. Mary Trump then confirmed that there was a “Shapiro” who was at Penn and friends with President Trump. Is this enough?
Most newspapers require at least two sources for such an allegation. Mary Trump had only one. However, this was a close family member claiming personal involvement in his education. Yet, she does not state that she was personally involved in this scheme. She recalls a common name and says that Trump “had somebody” take the exam. That would not appear first-hand knowledge or direct involvement by Barry. Yet, the book states it as a fact without even saying that this was according to one witness or rumor.
Under these circumstances, most courts would likely let this go to a jury to determine if Mary Trump showed reckless disregard in relying on one source without personal knowledge.
President Trump has not pursued his signature litigious approach to this publication. There is good reason to be cautious. First, “truth is a defense to defamation.” Thus, Mary Trump would be allowed full discovery to prove that, regardless of her lack of sourcing beyond Barry, the statement was true. Second, there may be further sources available to support Barry’s account or Barry herself may have more to share.
Notably, at the end of the article, Mary Trump notes that Barry has never spoken to her since the book and “if she never contacted me, and I think that’s fair. I understand why she would not want to.” That may be the most objectively true point of the entire affair.
I appreciate Professor Turley’s preliminary analysis of the defamation issues here. I have the Sack treatise, but to see a thoughtful analysis of current issues – love it! Thank you!!!
SELECT PASSAGE FROM TAPES:
At one point Barry said to her niece, “It’s the phoniness of it all. It’s the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel.”
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Marryanne Trump Barry, a former Federal Judge, thinks her younger brother is ‘phony and cruel’. That’s a bleak assessment by an older sibling. What’s more, half of America would readily agree to this assessment.
One could therefore argue that a peculiar disconnect exists when people calling themselves ‘Evangelicals’ are taken in by a cruel phony.
SELECT PASSAGE FROM TAPES:
At one point Barry said to her niece, “It’s the phoniness of it all. It’s the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel.”
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Marryanne Trump Barry, a former Federal Judge, thinks her younger brother is ‘phony and cruel’. That’s a bleak assessment by an older sibling. What’s more, half of America would readily agree to this assessment.
One could therefore argue that a peculiar disconnect exists when people calling themselves ‘Evangelicals’ are taken in by a cruel phony.
I question the motivation for things like this book, and or people coming out of the woodwork after many years to claim “victimization” by a public figure. Herman Cain, justice Thomas, Grunseth of Minnesota, Biden, Trump an many others have been smeared years after the alleged wrong.
What is this woman seeking, money, fame, revenge, or is she simply jealous ?
As for a response to her book,. Depending on the level of offense to her book, some people might discreetly buy her debt, and ruin her financially.
“What is this woman seeking…?”
She’s trying to help make sure Trump isn’t reelected, as she considers him a danger to the country.
Is the subtitle of her book, “How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man,” not a big enough clue?
To honest
Why did it take so long to come forth ? If your analysis of her reason for this book were true,. Should she have not come forth during the primary when he was beating his GOP opponents, or during the run against Clinton ? It would have been Extremely effective for his family to openly oppose him and support Clinton.
I only know what she’s said about it, which is that she didn’t believe he’d be elected: “When Donald announced his run for the presidency on June 16, 2015, I didn’t take it seriously. I didn’t think Donald took it seriously. He simply wanted the free publicity for his brand. He’d done that sort of thing before. When his poll numbers started to rise and he may have received tacit assurances from Russian president Vladimir Putin that Russia wold do everything it could to swing the election in his favor, the appeal of winning grew. “He’s a clown,” my aunt Maryanne said during on of our regular lunches at the time. “This will never happen.” I agreed.”
Also, she’d signed an NDA, and my understanding is that it wasn’t until the New York Times 2018 financial reporting — which led her to conclude that the older Trumps had defrauded her and her brother in a financial settlement — that she decided that the NDA was signed under fraudulent circumstances and wasn’t legally enforceable.
So she has a money-based grievance and sees a chance to attack him. Makes sense. The lawyers here know how honest people are in these bloodthirsty family disputes over cash.
Her grandfather made some puzzling decisions about disposing of his estate; most men in his position I suspect would have arranged matters differently unless they were antagonistic to those particular grandchildren in a way they weren’t to the others. There were at the time eight Trump grandchildren born over the period running from 1960 to 1993; Barron is the 9th). It’s hard to see how the three executors could have ‘defrauded’ her unless it’s her contention that they bamboozled Fred and Mary Trumps into signing wills that went against his previously expressed wishes. And among the three she’d be accusing would be the aunt of whom she just took advantage.
“It’s hard to see how the three executors could have ‘defrauded’ her ”
Mary Trump and Fred Trump III sued Donald, Maryanne and Robert in 2000. They ultimately signed a 2001 settlement agreement that — according to Mary Trump — was based on fraudulent financial info provided to her and her brother.
That’s the allegation. Neither of us is in a position to assess whether it’s true, but surely you’re mentally capable of understanding how fraud would be possible in that context.
And you should know that this isn’t the only allegation of financial fraud on Donald Trump’s part, which is why the NY A.G. is seeking Trump’s tax returns. See, for ex., https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-never-before-seen-trump-tax-documents-show-major-inconsistencies
Wills leave a very visible paper trail. She’s a kook and not likeable. Grandparents frequently give to the children in excess to what they give the grandchildren. Ongoing business interests are in the mix.
It would be interesting to see the will. She obiously had access to it. I wonder why the will wasn’t released to the pubic.
It strikes me she might have gotten more consideration from Donald Trump than the grandfather.
The out-of-court settlement makes no sense unless she and Fred III received consideration that wasn’t there in black letters in the will. (I think in New York had it gone to trial it would have been a bench trial in front of one of the Queens County Surrogates). It’s possible Fred’s mental state made the will vulnerable. Hard to say. Not my line of work.
I’m at least familiar with people you might call petty rich. I have the impression that the usual practice is to leave only chattels to grandchildren. Rather, you set up trusts which are then distributed per stirpes when a beneficiary dies. In that circumstance, the four living children would each receive a trust and then a trust would be set up for the issue of the late Fred Jr. Maryanne, Elizabeth, Donald, and Robert each receive trust income (not principal) from the time the trusts are erected. The one for Fred Jr’s children just reinvests the income until a certain date (say, 2019, when they’re around 55), at which time the income is split between them each quarter. At such time as each of the children of Fred Sr die, their children succeed to the trust and can begin drawing income from it at a certain age. In the case of Donald’s children, the income might be partitioned four ways, with the portion corresponding to each underage child being re-invested while the child of age draws income. Donald Jr would begin drawing his share in 2032 and Tiffany in 2048 (presuming their father had died). After a couple of generations, the trusts by law have to be dissolved and distributed as free-and-clear property to designated beneficiaries. The trust assigned to Elizabeth Trump Grau (who is childless), would be distributed to her siblings’ trusts after her death. Fred Trump preferred to make modest bequests to his grandchildren and the bulk to his children, who might or might not take their shirt-tails into consideration. An alternative might have been to put Elizabeth’s portion in a trust and have Fred III and Mary succeed to that. He didn’t want to do that either.
DSS to make it simple the underlying idea of estate planning is to save taxes and divide up the loot.
In large estates generally the intent is to leave the money to the children and or the business. The problem is that when the next generation dies taxes have to be paid again. Therefore, to save on taxes generations are skipped and the money is put in trust for the youngest generation. Some money will likely flow directly to all in large estates but the bulk will be more frequently than not controlled and used by the children which was the intention.
Knowing nothing about Fred Trump’s estate my guess is that some trusts were formed along with certain business entities in order to save on taxes. Donald might have received the largest share because he controlled the empire and was doing the work. His neice may have wrongfully assumed that certain money was hers because her name was on it never wanting to realize that if Fred wanted her to have the money he would have given it outright to her.
Who knows what Fred and Mary were up to for what reasons. Were it me, I’d have seen to it that various chattels were distributed as keepsakes, with more so distributed when the surviving spouse dies. Any real property of the household (not the business) and any undistributed chattels would go to the surviving spouse to dispose of according to her / his discretion. Some cash and securities might have gone to miscellaneous parties, with the rest set up in six trusts. The income from one trust would be forwarded to the surviving spouse, then, at the death of the surviving spouse, cut up and distributed to the others. The income of the remaining five would each be re-invested until the beneficiary turned 55, then forwarded to the beneficiary. That for the deceased Fred Jr would have been re-invested with Fred III receiving 1/2 the income at age 55 and the other half re-invested until Mary turned 55. A minority sliver of the Trump family businesses might be distributed to each of the trusts, but the older business would be left to Robert and any equity stake Fred Sr had in Donald’s business left to Donald. You could have a round of charitable bequests co-incident with the erection of the trusts and then arrange for a portion of each trust to be bequeathed to charity at such time as it is dissolved.
was based on fraudulent financial info provided to her and her brother.
What? She accepted appraised assets rather than securities whose market value is transparent?
Also, she’d signed an NDA, and my understanding is that it wasn’t until the New York Times 2018 financial reporting — which led her to conclude that the older Trumps had defrauded her and her brother in a financial settlement
The financial reporting attempted to manufacture a crime out of Fred Trump’s estate planning. Kurtz has explained here multiple times why the whole effort by the Sulzberger’s is misconceived. And I’m sure a clinical psychologist who cannot pass the New York state licensing examinations is absolutely cracker-jack at making sense of estate tax returns.
Her brother, btw, has said he wants no trouble with his uncle or anyone else, so I guess he’s the dumb one who cannot figure out he was defrauded.
Absurd, after that week-long series in the New York Times, Marryanne Trump Barry relinquished her seat on the Federal Court. Apparently the estate was passed on in such a way that many taxes were questionably bypassed. Which should make ‘everyone’ that much more determined to look at Donald Trump’s current tax returns.
Apparently the estate was passed on in such a way that many taxes were questionably bypassed.
I’m sure the Sulzberger minion understands the Trump estate’s liabilities better than the IRS and the NYS Department of Taxation and Finance
Which should make ‘everyone’ that much more determined to look at Donald Trump’s current tax returns.
Thanks for the non sequitur. Always and education.
Absurd, if everything was totally up to snuff with Fred Trump’s estate, ‘why’ did Marryanne Trump Barry relinquish her Federal Court seat shortly after that series of articles?
And your contention that the public should have no interest in Donald’s current tax returns amounts to an advocacy for ‘No Curiosity’.
Question: Would Americans want police officers to be that incurious? “Don’t worry sir, I’ll take your word for it. You seem like a good Republican”.
‘why’ did Marryanne Trump Barry relinquish her Federal Court seat shortly after that series of articles?
She retired in 2011, Peter. She indicated at the beginning of 2019 that she would no longer be available for whatever duties are allocated to retired judges. Which is an unremarkable thing to do when you’re 81 years old.
This morning, Trump tweeted: “Happy Sunday! We want GOD!,” and Father James Martin responded: “If you truly want God, look among the poor, the sick, the homeless, the refugee, the migrant, the marginalized. This is where Jesus invites us to find God: ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me’ (Mt 25).”
Trump uses statements about God as a partisan tool. But Trump’s actions show him to be unchristian.
As a bonus, Trump tweeted this at 9:48am, shortly after arriving at the Trump National Golf Course to play golf instead of going to church.
I don’t care about Trump’s religious beliefs. I care about what he actually does and to date he has acted morally and effectively.
Allan– My thought too. I suppose it is entirely coincidental that this is pushed out now. In his position I would have been far more ruthless with the Deep State and its enablers. I wonder if the US could rent Devil’s Island from France? Said to be nice.
Alan, Trump’s base is leveraged on anti-abortion, evangelicals. So either Trump is a genuine Christian or his base is composed of suckers.
Which is it?
There is now video from the pizza place Trump went to, made by a staff member. After the press is hustled out, he thanks everyone and then says God bless you. Christian, not Christian?
It is because Clinton, like Obama, was openly opposed to Christian values. She supported Planned Parenthood and homosexual lifestyle. Trump supported pro life and conservative judges. As one of those Christians , I say Trump is Far from perfect but he’s kept his word to us and supported freedom to worship.
PaintChips, Trumps base is not forced into groupthink. The left can’t tolerate divergent opinions. My guess is that the range of opinion of Trump supporters includes the entire spectrum with only a tiny minority favoring no abortion at all.
What we read in your responses is one that repeats talking points and doesn’t understand their meanings or the conflicts between one point and another.
ALAN TELLS US: “Trump’s base is not forced into groupthink”
Trump was the first president in history to have no prior experience in public office. Trump was also the first president in 50 years who refused to show his tax returns as both a candidate and sitting president. Trump supporters knowingly voted for Trump despite the fact that he was heard by everyone revealing he liked to ‘grab women by the p_ssy. Upon taking office, Trump labeled Russian interference “fake news” while every member of his cabinet acknowledged the meddling. Trump then insisted that Hillary’s Popular Vote victory was the result of ‘massive vote fraud’. However Trump never came close to proving that fraud.
Therefore Trump supporters believed experience in public office didn’t matter. They didn’t care to see their candidate’s tax returns. They didn’t mind that Trump had multiple sexual misconduct allegations hanging over him. They didn’t mind that Trump was denying a security threat his whole cabinet was acknowledging. And Trump supporters didn’t mind that he never came close to proving a massive case of vote fraud that he so publicly alleged. ..Oh and Trump supporters didn’t mind that Trump sided with Putin against U.S. Intelligence agencies onstage in Helsinki Finland..!!
Yet Alan claims “Trump’s base is not forced into groupthink”
One can only conclude that Alan is part of the very groupthink he claims is nonexistent.
Trump was the first president in history to have no prior experience in public office.
So what? You’d prefer a legislator who was a recognized maven in no area of policy and had no accomplishments whatsoever outside the realm of electoral politics other than passing the bar exam and remaining notionally employed. Because shallow.
Trump is a malignant narcissist and incompetent at the job. Any reasonably competent non-malignant-narcissist is preferable.
We’re facing 175,000 Americans dead, many others with longterm health problems from COVID-19, 10% unemployment, schools unable to open, …
Is Trump solely responsible for this? No, of course not. But he is the single most powerful person in the country, so Trump shoulders the greatest responsibility, and he simply isn’t sufficiently interested in doing everything within his power as President to keep the harms from the pandemic as small as possible.
Harry Truman: “The buck stops here.”
Donald Trump: “I don’t take responsibility at all.”
The fact that Joe Biden and Obama depleted the stockpiles of masks etc and left him without outdated testing along with a politicized group of people that didn’t prepare for the worst plays a big part in that statement. When he needed to focus on the country world and the coming pandemic he was being impeached based on garbage created by democrats. He was President but the cause was Biden, Obama, democrat Congress, along with liars and thieves mostly all standing with democrats.
You don’t know about those things because you are an ignoramus.
Absurd, it should be perfectly clear by now that experience in public office does indeed matter with regards to the presidency.
Absurd, it should be perfectly clear by now that experience in public office does indeed matter with regards to the presidency.
It’s ‘clear’ only to people who are biased in their judgements and don’t bother differentiating between the skill sets of different types of public official. That’s you, Peter. It’s transparently silly, which is why no one takes your complaint seriously.
PaintChips you are really stupid. You mix truth with fiction. Trump has done amazing things but you list off a whole slew of things that are failures of Democrats.
Who was paid by the Russians? The Clintons.
Who let Russia take over Crimea and parts of the Ukraine? Obama a democrat
Who caused damage to Russia. Trump economically and militarily.
Who is stupid and wants to continue to destroy our economy and outsource jobs? democrats.
Who is hiding in a basement? Joe Biden a democrat.
Who is supporting violence in the streets? democrats.
Who wants to raise taxes? deomcrats.
On and on we go but PaintChips can’t argue himself out of a paper bag.
ALAN ASKS: “Who wants to raise taxes? democrats”.
Alan is oblivious to the fact that our national debt is at wartime levels. Professor Turley wrote a column on this matter just yesterday. Yet Alan thinks more tax cuts for the wealthy is just what this country needs!
PaintChips, I am not oblivious to the national debt and if it were up to me it wouldn’t exist but it does.
What he doesn’t realize is that when taxes are increased everyone pays for it and it is the hard working middle class that suffers the most. Their taxes go up along with their expenses. I’m not going to explain it to you in depth because you won’t understand.
Today the rich are paying the vast majority of the income tax collected. The government can take all the money and property of our billionaire class and spend it and run out in a lot less than a year just trying to pay the usual bills. When the government takes millions from a “Sam Walton” it doesn’t mean Sam Walton reduces his personal spending. He doesn’t. He doesn’t build another Walmart that employs huge numbers of people and increases the wealth of the nation. The money of the super rich isn’t sitting under a matress. It is out creating wealth and jobs.
We do need a certain amount of taxes and we do have to make the system of taxation fair. I believe we should move to some type of consumption tax and dreastically reduce federal spending.
I urge you to read the goose and the golden egg.
Trump’s tax reduction was appropriate for the most part. If you want high corporate taxes then plan on companies and jobs leaving the nation. You should feel good about that bill. It cost me a lot of money and I agree with it. You are no longer covering my tax breaks on my expensive homes.
If I can find it I will send you a story that is going around the net. It is a new version of an old story.
The ANT AND THE
GRASSHOPPER …updated
This one is a little different …
Two Different Versions …
Two Different Morals
OLD VERSION
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for winter.
The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.
The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he
dies out in the cold.
MORAL OF THE OLD STORY:
Be responsible for yourself!
MODERN
VERSION
The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.
The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be
allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.
CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to
provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper
next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
America is stunned by the sharp contrast.
How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?
Kermit the Frog appearson Oprah with the grasshopper
and everybody cries when they sing, ‘It’s Not Easy Being Green’
Occupy the Anthill stages a demonstration in front of the ant’s house where the news stations film the
Black Lives Matter group singing, We shall overcome.
Then Reverend Al Sharpton has the group kneel down to pray for the grasshopper while he damns the ant. He later appears on MSNBC to complain that rich people do not care.
Former President Obama condemns the ant and blames
Donald Trump, President Bush 43, President Bush 41, President Reagan, Christopher Columbus, and the
Pope for the grasshopper’s plight.
Nancy Pelosi & Chuck Schumer
exclaim in an interview on The View that the ant has
gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper,
and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.
Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity &
Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of
the summer.
The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number
of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the
Government Green Czar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and given to the grasshopper.
The story ends as we see the grasshopper
and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government house he is in,
which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant’s old house,
crumbles around them because the
grasshopper doesn’t maintain it.
The ant has disappeared in the snow, never to be seen again.
The grasshopper, who no longer has food, is found dead. The house now abandoned, is taken over by a Gang of spiders who terrorize the once prosperous and peaceful, neighborhood.
The entire Nation collapses, bringing the rest of the free world with it.
MORAL OF THE STORY:
Be careful how you vote in 2020.
PaintChips, you and your type are grasshoppers.
Allan spent a fair amount of effort and bandwidth yesterday trying to spin and justify Trump’s damning of the Democrats for supposedly removing God from the Pledge of Allegiance and therefore the convention. I’m sure we all join in wishing Allan good luck resolving his deeply felt religious commitment and his deeply felt prostration before Donald Trump.
Do you have a point to make? Why not stand when you want to reply. It will take pressure off of your brain.
Trump uses statements about God as a partisan tool. But Trump’s actions show him to be unchristian.
“Unchristian” in liberal-speak means Trump does not have the mentality of a dippy social worker. Actual, standard-issue Christians are, of course, despised by liberals because they don’t have the mentality of dippy social workers either.
Absurd, do Christian grandfathers grab women by the p_ssy?
Of course they don’t! Trump hasn’t the faintest idea of what it means to be a Christian. So he has no business whatsoever bringing God into any conversation.
It is my understanding the Christianity believes in forgiveness and redemption. Don’t you?
Comment From Above:
It is my understanding the Christianity believes in forgiveness and redemption. Don’t you?
Tell us when Trump became a ‘Christian’ What churches has he gone to? And how ‘forgiving’ is a man who attacks people daily in malicious tweets?
Absurd, do Christian grandfathers grab women by the p_ssy?
Christian grandfathers and Dark Triad types have one thing in common: they don’t think like dippy social workers. This isn’t that difficult.
Trump’s never been a churchgoer that anyone knows of; his wife appears to be what you’d call a ‘cultural Catholic’. His relationship with evangelicals is simple to understand: he’s not hostile to them or their projects. Liberals are so aggressively awful to people that they don’t understand someone who has a benign attitude toward something to which he doesn’t subscribe.
Trump: “And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. … Grab ’em by the p*ssy. You can do anything.”
That’s what he subscribes to: sexual abuse. He claims “they let you do it,” but over two dozen women have alleged that they didn’t let him and he did it anyway.
No doubt you’re looking forward to Trump being deposed in the two defamation suits pending against Trump — from Summer Zervos and E. Jean Carroll — for his claims denying that he’d engaged in non-consensual sexual acts with them.
Moral men don’t act that way.
Trump is immoral.
That’s what he subscribes to: sexual abuse. He claims “they let you do it,”
Ever hear a story about a woman slapping Jack Kennedy across the face? You haven’t, because a non-zero proportion of the female population are star-f*ckers. Kennedy was extraordinarily adept at spotting them and using them.
but over two dozen women have alleged that they didn’t let him and he did it anyway.
The DNC press office is well aware that there are marks like you out there. They didn’t allege it in any forum where it could be costly to them and where they’d have to provide evidence of their claims. They appear to call attention to themselves for the day’s news cycle, then they disappear (and, indubitably, collect a check). Pretty much what they alleged was along the lines of ‘Trump is a masher’, he put his hand on my thigh when we sat next to me at a dinner.
No doubt you’re looking forward to Trump being deposed in the two defamation suits pending against Trump — from Summer Zervos and E. Jean Carroll — for his claims denying that he’d engaged in non-consensual sexual acts with them.
E. Jean Carroll told an incredible tale which had been cribbed from a 2012 episode of the Law & Order franchise. She hardly pretended to be on the level. The one advantage she has over Christine Blasey Fraud is that she can demonstrate that she and her husband once met the Trumps on a receiving line. Again, Summer’s going to have to present actual evidence of her claims. Not everyone is a mark like you.
“They didn’t allege it in any forum where it could be costly to them and where they’d have to provide evidence of their claims.”
SMH that you think the Zervos v. Trump and Carroll v. Trump lawsuits aren’t such a forum.
And of course simply publicly alleging it could be costly, since Trump could sue for defamation. Plenty of women have made such public allegations. And if Trump did sue, I have no doubt that there would be eye witness testimony to some of it, like Trump walking in on half-naked teen girls in a dressing room. I doubt they forgot.
“E. Jean Carroll … hardly pretended to be on the level.”
The courts don’t care whether you, TIA, think she is/isn’t “on the level.”
Judge rules E. Jean Carroll can continue to seek Trump’s DNA in defamation suit
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/politics/e-jean-carroll-trump-dna/index.html
So, when you say “they don’t think like dippy social workers”, you mean that they understand Christian virtues like charity and good works are only meant to be offered to white people and only after any collected funds have been spent on portraits and parties. Is that what you mean? I’m struggling with your comment, heartfelt and well intended as it no doubt is.
You caricature people, then pretend your caricatures are representational.
Christians commit all kinds of sins, just like unbelievers. Good place to start learning is where epistles of the apostles, like Paul.
I’m not Christian, TIA, so I’m basing my “unchristian” claim on my understanding that Christians are supposed to be moral and follow the teachings of Christ, so if someone — in this case, Trump — is deeply immoral and regularly acts in ways that are inconsistent with Christ’s teachings, then that person is unchristian. But I’d be happy to say “Trump is deeply immoral” if you prefer that.
Christianity Today:
“None of the president’s positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character.”
Commit- Wasn’t it fun when Bill Clinton lectured Trump on the need for decorum in the Oval Office? I wonder how his cigar supply is holding up? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a cigar is a sex toy.
Indeed, and Clinton’s bragging about his conquest on Twitter for days afterward was particularly in bad taste.
El Vulva Monique- Cigar of Kings
I take no interest in Christianity Today. Pew sitting evangelicals are stuck with the evangelical word-merchant element, most of whom are poseurs. The editors of Christianity Today are no exception. Catholics are suffering the same problems, though the distribution of trouble is different. In re the Eastern Churches and the mainline protestant denominations, other problems abound.
A serious Christian publication is only as interested in political controversies as it has to be, and it generally has to be when the capacity of Christian apostolates to fulfill their institutional missions is threatened. (As it is). Beyond that, there are very few political questions on which the Church and the protestant congregations need to be voluble, and these can often be best addressed by lay apostolates.
That the president sets a bad example is a cause for dismay. You sound like an a**, of course, when you don’t actually survey the landscape and treat like cases like. I’d like a better public culture, too. I happen to live in the one that is. So does Christianity Today; it just pretends the source of the problem is the President. They’re either stupid or lying. In any case, I cannot be bothered.
Commit– Is there a computer program that helps you churn out reams of vomit worthy nonsense? Seems like.
“Coomit– I already told you I am an ‘assh*le’. Why complain now.”
https://jonathanturley.org/2020/08/11/does-mandatory-mask-enforcement-violate-the-american-disability-act/comment-page-2/#comment-1989765
I am glad you remembered. But I am honest which clearly you are not.
No, Young, you’re *sometimes* honest (as with the claim of yours that I just quoted above), but often you are not honest.
I refer you to your efforts to unsay what you said about race and biology. You will lie about your lies. I am not the only one here who has noticed. Your hatred of Trump is so intense it is burning away any sense of decency you may ever have had.
Nah, you project lies onto me, which is quite consistent with your self-admission: “I already told you I am an ‘assh*le,’”
Meanwhile, you continue to run away from your own false claims “about race and biology,” such as “race is a genuine way of sorting different biological varieties of people and that the concept of race is cognate with the more precise term ‘sub-species,’” “that definition of subspecies [which she originally provided] can be logically applied to what we think of as human races,” “We can classify humanity into four major races …, but it will not cover every contingency …” So go ahead: identify the four or more subspecies of H. sapiens corresponding to the races *you* “classify humanity into,” and explain why biologists say that all living humans belong to a single subspecies (H. sapiens sapiens) and why you think you understand this better than they do.
Frankly, it’s ironic that you claim that I’m unwilling to “actually grappl[e] with the underlying idea and try[] to understand what is really going on,” while you yourself are unwilling to grapple honestly with the biological concept of “subspecies” and really understand it, and understand why biologists say that there’s only one extant human subspecies. No doubt this is why you keep criticizing *me* instead of dealing with the biology.
It’s sad — but now unsurprising — that you running away from the biological discussion Young.
King David was a godly man, was he not? Yet he defended against and destroyed the rebellion by his son, Absalom. What Martin engaged in proof texting – taking a verse out-of-context to support a viewpoint. Doesn’t mean the viewpoint is valid.
We don’t find God among the poor. We carry out his mandates, as Christians, by being merciful to the poor. This is not, however, a directive aimed at governance of Palestine by the Romans.
In the article there is a quote including two words. I will use piglatin. Holy itShay. People who put the word Holy alongside the itShay word are implying that the Lord or Lard is behind or associated with an animal or human fece.
All that aside there are some Trump’s out there to n the world who are exaggerators. The Trump in the White House should resign at the convention and turn it over to Pence.
So what? A couple of gossiping biddies, both insanely jealous of the hyper-successful “Alpha Male” of the family. Pick a little talk a little pick a little talk a little pick pick pick….[Music Man]. No better than common fishwives. Anyone who would believe either of these women, about anything, is an idiot.
I seriously doubt that any president in the history of the United States did not at one time or another have skeletons in their closets. To which I say “who cares”. Let’s erase them all. Cancel them as they say. Erase all their laws and edicts. Start over again. Then find someone who doesn’t have skeletons in their closet. Good luck.
Note to self:
Yes, JT is right. Don’t vote for Mary Trump either.
What a stooge.
All this proves is that the trumps have better. A very dysfunctional family full of liars, opportunists, racists and indifferent to others problems. Trump represents the worst of that family and shows the entire world thru his botched attempts at leadership.
And you are expecting better from Joe B?
Trump set the bar so low that anything other than trump would be better. Yes, it’s that bad.
It was amazing it see the leftist propaganda merchant who pose as “media” wet themselves with giddy delight because, the day after he buried his brother, they are again smearing our President with “secretly recorded” opinions from his sister. The vile left makes Joe McCarthy look like a pretty nice guy by comparison. Was it a sibling rivalry, was Barry simply humoring her niece by joining in her angst, or perhaps Barry, like the leftists haters, just love late-term dismemberment of tiny human beings that allows her to abuse her brother?
After all, the left seems to worship their false god, named abortion, with a crazed fervor. That destroys Robert Bork because of it and they have gotten worse ever since. The left is corrupt and evil. They lie about everything and ALWAYS accuse their political opponents of exactly what they themselves have done. I guess if follows from their “heroes” in the Obama/Biden administration where multiple government agencies were weaponized to target, destroy, and obtain “leverage” over their perceived political enemies.
I could care less about this kind of family gossipy backstabbing. It’s akin to citing how dementia Joe had an affair with a married woman and caused that marriage to fail and he then married that scarlet letter.
What I do care about is that the current president has actually been delivering and doing what he says he will do. What I do care about is that the current president is not a creature of the DC swamp…. unlike his competitor whom has spent 47 years in DC with a record of …well pretty much nothing but plagiarism and gaffe prone talk. 47 YEARS…and the same old china joe… nothing original and never was.
What I care about is my country not being divided by ignorant racist politicos for political benefit…. those that support the BLM charade and welcome the masses of asses of youth whom proffer up division , lies and violence with no real ideals why they do so.
What I care about is seeing my countries education system having been turned into indoctrination by goober teacher unionistas and the politicos that steer these soul less apparatchiks. What I care about is getting my country out of so many conflicts waged by politicos and the pentagon elite. What I care about is not letting AMERICA be dependent on entities like communist china for goods while they steal our technology and spy on us all the while.
I could go on . Rest this to say the DNC and it’s political creeps have ZERO to offer anything AMERICA cares about. They are all about themselves , their quest for power via socialism and how they can manipulate anyone to get their goals. To put it short in the left’s minds – the means justify the ends constitution be damned….. let alone common sense and honor.
If anyone is clean and pure as the driven snow …please stand up and commence throwing rocks in your glass house already. Our president is – like us – human with all his faults. But he is our president and he is DOING what America has asked of him.
“the current president has actually been delivering and doing what he says he will do”
He hasn’t. Consider his most repeated promise, “I will build a great great wall on our southern border and I’ll have Mexico pay for that wall.” In over 3 years, he’s only built a few miles of new wall (hardly a “great great wall”) and Mexico didn’t pay for it. Not only that, but Trump’s former campaign chief executive / Trump’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon was just indicted for wire fraud and money laundering in relation to the private We Build the Wall effort.
For more examples of his broken promises:
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/list/?promise_group=trumpometer&ruling=promise-broken
“my country not being divided by ignorant racist politicos for political benefit”
Trump is a racist politico, and he’s doing a great deal to divide the country. The country is more polarized now than when he took office, and he is the most polarizing president on record: https://news.gallup.com/poll/245996/trump-job-approval-sets-new-record-polarization.aspx
(and if you look at more recent data, it gets even worse: news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx — it’s now an 85 point gap)
“he is our president and he is DOING what America has asked of him.”
No. America includes all of us, not just the people who agree with you. Over 175,000 of our fellow Americans have died from COVID-19, while Trump has done next to nothing about it for the last several months. He’s failed America.
” Consider his most repeated promise, “I will build a great great wall on our southern border and I’ll have Mexico pay for that wall.” In over 3 years, he’s only built a few miles of new wall”
Trump fought the democrats tooth and nail. He finally was able to build the wall and now we have about 300 miles with a lot more to come before the end of the year. Did Mexico pay for it? Though not by cash or check Mexico has supported sealing our borders placing thousands of armed soldiers at both borders to control the crossing. I’ll take that as opposed to the money for that is more important.
However, we can see how democrats handle international affairs. They want to look good in front of their law breaking violent supporters so they want to see humiliation just like they did to the police making them kneel. Humiliation doesn’t work nor does supplying $150 Billion and $1.8 Billion cash.
lol its incredible someone as dumb as yourself has managed to find their way to this blog to post ridiculous comments like you have. but hey even a blind pig can find the feeding trough once in awhile. I’ve read some stupid posts here but right now, yours is at the top of the ‘too stupid to believe it exists’ list.
I have listened to Trump’s opponents call him a Racist for 4 years without proof. Give me details, specifics to back up your claims. I see nothing he has said or done that has not been said or done by many Black businessmen, politicians, and pastors. As a Black businessman I speak of what I know. Just because many people say the same thing doesn’t make it TRUE. Lastly. Good nor Evil have a color.
Here’s a start on the details you’re asking for: https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history
And if your response is to focus on one or two of these in isolation, you’ve missed the point. Racism lies in a pattern of statements and actions over time. Look at the combined effect.
Don’t trust Commit. She admitted in an earlier thread she doesn’t stand by her citations. She is just doing another endless series for slurs on anything Trump. Her naked, ugly hatred should be warning enough.
Dr. Jill sued her husband for divorce. In the course of that, she demanded a piece of the business he’d built. Not attractive.
Jill Biden isn’t the candidate.
Meanwhile, Donald cheated on Melania with a p*rn star right after the birth of his son, and he and his siblings tried to cut off the health insurance for their ill grand-nephew. If you’re going to complain about behavior that “not attractive,” you can gorge yourself on Trump’s.
No one you’d like to interest would ever cheat with you, before or after the birth of his son. Get over it.
TIA, a well know stud muffin on this board who talks the kind of talk the chicks go wild for, accuses CTHD of somehow being unattractive, as if he has barged into her dressing room unannounced in the manner of his political and spiritual leader Donald Trump. Where did this, or whatever other evidence you have to this claim occur TIA ? I’m sure CTHD is heartbroken that you are probably no longer a possible soul mate for eternity, or sweaty hook-up during the next Q Anon rally, but let her down easy. You know how women hang on your every word.
TIA, how bizarre that you think I’d want to hook up with someone who cheats on his wife.
Maybe you’re into cheating, but I’m not.
No one would ever mistake you for someone ethical.
Yeah, clearly anyone who has different views than you couldn’t possibly be ethical. /s
You’ve been caught lying umpteen times by other participants. Pro-tip: under-promise, over-deliver, i.e. not what you’ve been doing.
Some of the people who lose arguments with me falsely accuse me of lying.
You certainly haven’t presented evidence of any lies. And that’s totally unsurprising.
BTW, if someone lying is enough to convince you that the person is unethical, then you’d conclude that Trump is unethical, as he makes all sorts of false claims: https://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/
For example, Trump has lied over 150 times about the Veterans Choice Act.
Just a few examples of him lying about it (from the database I linked to above):
* “We passed VA Choice and VA Accountability to give our veterans the care that they deserve, and they have been trying to pass these things for 45 years.”(5/20/19)
* “McCain didn’t get the job done for our great vets and the VA, and they knew it … The vets were on my side because I got the job done. I got Choice and I got accountability. … And Choice — for years and years, decades, they wanted to get Choice. … For many decades, they couldn’t get it done. It was never done. I got it five months ago.” (3/21/19)
* “I disagree with John McCain on the way he handled the vets, because I said you got get to Choice. He was never able to get Choice. I got Choice.” (5/30/19)
* “You know, I got the Veterans Choice. First time in 44 years, the veterans have choice.” (5/14/19)
* “And, by the way, for the veterans, 45 years they’ve been trying to get it. As you know, just recently, I signed Veterans Choice” (4/24/19)
* “We passed Veterans Choice, giving our veterans the right to see a private doctor, rather than waiting on line for weeks and weeks and weeks. Forty-four years they’ve been trying to pass that. I got it passed, it’s signed as of two months ago.” (10/27/18)
Not only was the Veterans Choice Act signed by Obama (not Trump), McCain was a co-sponsor of the bill. Trump did sign the VA MISSION Act of 2018, which extends Choice, but Trump continues to lie that he was the one who got Choice passed (he wasn’t), that he signed the Choice Act (he didn’t), and that others had tried and failed to pass the Choice Act (not true: it was passed under Obama with McCain as a cosponsor).
Your “Pro-tip: under-promise, over-deliver, i.e. not what you’ve been doing” applies to Trump much more than it does to me.
Cancel culture, the never ending saga to dredge up the past. Can anyone find one question asked of Judge Kavanaugh by the dems of his circuit court tenure? My choice for president is a personal narcissist and a tired old goat that thinks, “Poor kids are just as smart as white kids”. As a businessman Trump played the game through democratic and republican administrations allowed him by the swamp. Money is the name of the game and the swamp makes millionaires of elected low lives that can’t be fired.
LOL! Just gossip. If she knew someone took the exams she wouldn’t say “…that’s what I believe.” Just another Dem wet dream, like the book itself. As the Left’s Goddess of Corruption likes to cacke: it’s a nothingburger! Keep trying Democrats. Find proof instead of the fairytales of disgruntled family members.
“He was a brat . . . I did his homework for him” . . . “I drove him around New York City to try to get him into college.”
She enrolled in college in 1954, when Trump was 8 years old. The school she attended is in western Massachusetts. She married a Navy man in 1959, gave birth in 1960, attended Columbia University in 1960-62, and is also heading out to Queens to do the homework of one of her four siblings (at the behest of whom? Did the married and pre-occupied mother of 25 volunteer to do this? ).
I wasn’t a college applicant in that era. In my era, you got some suggestions from a guidance counselor, found institutional addresses in a directory, and sent away in the mail for applications and circulars (some circulars arriving unsolicited). You visited a campus to get a feel for the place. You had campus and alumni interviews as well, though I never had the impression these counted for much, as much informational for you as the institution. My brother did take me around to several campuses. In the intervening decades, he’s never mentioned it.
And, again, the notion that someone he met in 1966 took college boards for him in 1963 is a bizarre idea. (We’ve reviewed in the previous discussion where Joseph Schapiro lived and attended high school in 1963; there’s no particular reason to believe he and Trump would ever have met). As for re-taking the college boards (at age 20) as part of a transfer application, I’ve never heard of such a thing.
Off-hand, to just whom is he cruel? Is it employees? Family members?
“to just whom is he cruel?”
Wow.
How about you start with the children who were separated from their parents at the border and caged without sufficient care and without even gathering enough info for the kids to be reunited with their parents later. That is life-alteringly cruel. Some of those kids were so poorly cared for that they died.
“Is it employees? Family members?”
Them too.
For more insight: https://web.archive.org/web/20190630202834/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/
How about you start with the children who were separated from their parents at the border and caged without sufficient care
You’d be more impressive if you didn’t recycle debunked Democratic Party memes. Your handlers aren’t getting their money’s worth from you.
You’d be more impressive, TIA, if you actually provided evidence for your claims instead of relying on your bizarre partisan imaginings.
“May 29, 2019 … At least seven children are known to have died in immigration custody since last year, after almost a decade in which no child reportedly died while in the custody of U.S. Customs and Border Protection.” – https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/why-are-migrant-children-dying-u-s-custody-n1010316?fbclid=IwAR38n79Vu1jBLejqEPL8NCeCJ7qaGinN2TJOuTfEkVI1BKJDyISX3Jee7Rs
Kids in Cages: Inhumane Treatment at the Border
https://oversight.house.gov/legislation/hearings/kids-in-cages-inhumane-treatment-at-the-border
The Obama Administration built the cages that were filmed and blamed on Trump.
Woman and children are raped and turned into slaves from the cross border southern traffic. Many die along the way or are killed by those involved in their transport. Trump has been putting an end to that traffic and has been fought all the way by democrats. Democrats even have sanctuary cities protecting murderers, racists and criminals.
You reveal only half the story and that is why one might refer to you as a half-wit.
You mean the cages Obama built? Obama kept border-kids in cages throughout his administration. As a matter of fact, Barack Obama INVENTED cages for kids. So what’s your complaint against Donald Trump??
Yes, the cages that the Obama Admin. built. (See, I have no problem being honest.) But the Obama Admin. did NOT have a “zero tolerance” policy, did NOT routinely separate children from their parents at the border, did NOT have children die in CBP custody, and generally provided sufficient care for the kids in its custody.
“So what’s your complaint against Donald Trump?”
Do you have reading comprehension problems? I’ll repeat it for you: “start with the children who were separated from their parents at the border and caged without sufficient care and without even gathering enough info for the kids to be reunited with their parents later. That is life-alteringly cruel. Some of those kids were so poorly cared for that they died.”
The family separations were a result of the Trump’s “zero tolerance” policy, and resulted in several **thousand** children being separated from their parents at the border.
FactCheck.org: “In defending its “zero tolerance” border policy that has caused the separation of families, the Trump administration has argued that the Obama and Bush administrations did this too. That’s misleading. Experts say there were some separations under previous administrations, but no blanket policy to prosecute parents and, therefore, separate them from their children. ‘Bush and Obama did not have policies that resulted in the mass separation of parents and children like we’re seeing under the current administration,’ Sarah Pierce, a policy analyst with the Migration Policy Institute, told us.”
From the HHS Office of the Inspector General: “As a result of revisions made throughout the fall and winter of 2018, the Department ultimately identified 2,737 separated children in its care who were children of Ms. L class members and were eligible for reunification. HHS has reunited most of the families on the certified list, pursuant to the court order; however, the lack of an existing, integrated data system to track separated families across HHS and DHS and the complexity of determining which children should be considered separated meant that the list of families entitled to reunification was still being revised as late as December 2018, more than 5 months after the order’s effective date. In addition, HHS officials estimate that ORR received and released thousands of separated children before the court order in Ms. L v. ICE. ORR was not legally required to identify or track separated children released before the court’s order. Because of the limitation of its data systems, ORR was unable to provide a more precise estimate or specific information about these children’s sponsor placements.”
https://oig.hhs.gov/newsroom/news-releases/2019/uac.asp
There’s a good summary of ongoing reporting, legal issues, … here: https://www.splcenter.org/news/2020/06/17/family-separation-under-trump-administration-timeline
“Yes, the cages that the Obama Admin. built. (See, I have no problem being honest.)”
You have to be pushed to the edge for you to be honest on the fringes but still dishonest throughout.
It was democrats that created the situation where children were being raped, killed and separated from their families. It is the left that promoted huge numbers into crossing the border. All of this was done for political gain and power. Animals.
With genetic testing it turns out a fair number of the ‘parents’ aren’t parents. They were just using the kids as props. Even in the US with citizens children are removed in law enforcement situations.
Obama still holds the record for the most deported in a year, more than Trump. Obama began his administration with wholesale deportations of as many illegals as the existing forces could get their hands on. Then protests caught his ear that along with criminals and undesirables he was deporting those who came to the US illegally as children with their parents, those that were in school and college, those that were contributing to society. Obama heard, listened, and altered his approach. His administration targeted undesirables, criminals, etc to the tune of over 90% of those deported. Obama was more effective than Bush and Trump. Obama’s approach was tied to the will of the people. Obama had the best interests of the US in mind.
Not so with Trump. Trump’s entire strategy has his best interests in mind. Almost every word out of Trump’s mouth references what a great, strong, etc guy he is. Coincidentally, almost every word out of Trump’s mouth is a lie or at best an untruth. There is no way Trump can compare to Obama when it comes to: intelligence, concern for America, competence, control, etc.
Commit, caging happened under BO first.
“to just whom is he cruel?”
Wow.
How about you start with the children who were separated from their parents at the border and caged without sufficient care and without even gathering enough info for the kids to be reunited with their parents later. That is life-alteringly cruel. Some of those kids were so poorly cared for that they died.
And the press documented such cruelty:
1) From the New York Times by Julia Preston, July 25, 2015,
‘In a decision late Friday roundly rejecting the administration’s arguments for holding the families, Judge Dolly M. Gee of Federal District Court for the Central District of California found that two detention centers in Texas that the administration opened last summer fail to meet minimum legal requirements of the 1997 settlement for facilities housing children.
Judge Gee also found that migrant children had been held in “widespread deplorable conditions” in Border Patrol stations after they were first caught, and she said the authorities had “wholly failed” to provide the “safe and sanitary” conditions required for children even in temporary cells.’
You are so correct- ‘Wow’.
2) And yes, the online story by The Arizona Republic, June 18, 2014 titled “First peek: Immigrant children flood detention center.”
The story featured photos taken by AP’s Ross D. Franklin at a center run by the Customs and Border Protection Agency in Nogales, Arizona. One photo shows two unidentified female detainees sleeping in a holding cell. The caption refers to U.S. efforts to process 47,000 unaccompanied children at the Nogales center and another one in Brownsville, Texas.
Many tweets used the hashtag “WhereAreOurChildren,” which grew out of testimony in April by a federal official that the U.S. government had lost track of nearly 1,500 unaccompanied minor children it placed with adult sponsors in the U.S.
Once again- ‘Wow’. That heartless monster, Donald Trump.
Better to do an Elian Gonzalez per Clinton with all of them.
“to just whom is he cruel?”
Do you consider rape and sexual abuse cruel? I do. But if you don’t, well, that would be very revealing about you.
You know that he’s been accused of rape by more than one woman and accused of sexual abuse by multiple other women, right? and that he’s bragged about assaulting women without consent? and that he’s the defendant in two defamation lawsuits related to his denials of rape and other sexual misconduct? and that some of the accusations involve his treatment of teen girls, right?
<<>>> Why do you libs always switch the subject to Bill Clinton? Seriously. I don’t see how it supports your argument..
Seriously, NoName4Now, I don’t know how you’d read that and think it was about Clinton. If you have evidence that Bill Clinton “bragged about assaulting women without consent … [is] the defendant in two defamation lawsuits related to his denials of rape and other sexual misconduct[,] and that some of the accusations involve his treatment of teen girls,” please present it.
Because I can present you with evidence for TRUMP for all of those things.
For the record, Clinton has also been credibly accused of rape and sexual abuse, and the rapes/abuse were ALSO cruel.
Are you willing to join me in calling them BOTH out on it? Or are you a partisan misogynist who only objects to rape by Democrats?
“If you have evidence that Bill Clinton “bragged about assaulting women without consent … ”
Bill Clinton didn’t brag. He just did it with or without a woman’s consent.
Trump never bragged about assaulting any women or doing so without their consent. That is two lies in one sentence.
Allan, “ Trump never bragged about assaulting any women or doing so without their consent. That is two lies in one sentence.”
The Hollywood tape was recorded evidence of trump bragging about sexually assaulting women without consent. The whole world heard it. Even trump admitted to it by making a half a$$ed apology about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WuC3DE_RHI
No kidding, Svelaz. Apparently a man like Allan hears Trump saying “I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. … Grab ‘em by the p*ssy. You can do anything,” and he thinks that’s consent. I sure hope he doesn’t have any kids, because he can’t teach them what consent means if he doesn’t understand it himself.
You really are as stupid as you sound. Trump admits making advances, but he admits to saying “I failed”. You are a sexist. some women want sex in the same way you portray others. “They let you do it”.
Yes, I have children and they understand all the things you fail to understand. They are all upstanding citizens while you are not.
You are so Lame. The opperative quotes are: “I failed.” “They let you do it” No assault there.
You are so stupid.
Allan, it is you who is being quite stupid here. In fact a massive amount of it. YOU said, “Trump never bragged about assaulting women or doing so without their consent”. Then you admit Trump said it but because they “let you do it” suddenly it makes it alright. Are you really that much of a moron? Do you really think that women willingly consent to being grabbed by the pu$$y because…he’s a star? You’re on the losing end of a very bad attempt at defending your own easily provable lie. After being shown how you’re a liar suddenly it’s about “operative quotes”. Never mind that trump is still bragging about it which YOU claimed he never did.
The tape exists but Trump never admitted to ***assaulting*** anyone. Mutual consent is what Trump admits to. You have a major problem with the English language.
Are you speaking of Joey Two-Fingers Biden? Or Bill ‘I like them young and I like them tight’ Clinton?
In 1959 At age 13, Trump was enrolled in the New York Military Academy, a private boarding school. In 1964, he enrolled at Fordham University. Two years later he transferred to the Wharton School. Based on the history you gave, she could not have been very involved in his education.
Thanks. I’d forgotten he boarded.
Again, I suspect she’s the sort who remembers how she felt much more clearly than she does what actually happened. I have had one of that sort in my family.
Exactly TIA, and given how out of character her charges are with what we know from watching Trump in public – God, will he ever walk away from the camera, will it ever stop – she must be just making it up. “Braggart, liar, stupid, never reads, just makes things up”. I mean where does she get this stuff!! It’s crazy!
This was meant to reply to This is absurd x XXii on Trump’s sister’s history.
Absurd, if Trump’s sister had no idea she was being taped, why did she cite the name ‘Joe Shapiro’? That name had to have come from somewhere.
Perhaps Marryanne Trump Barry got Shapiro mixed up with another Jewish lad. It may have been someone named Siegal or Weinberg. But again, if Trump Barry didnt know she was bring taped, her recollection came from some family legend. She didn’t just suddenly decide to lie to her niece.
Absurd, if Trump’s sister had no idea she was being taped, why did she cite the name ‘Joe Shapiro’?
Because she vaguely recalled he was a friend of her brother’s in that era. When you’re 81 years old, three years hardly registers in your memory, but three years is crucial in this discussion. This isn’t that difficult.
. But again, if Trump Barry didnt know she was bring taped, her recollection came from some family legend.
No, it came from inside her rectum.
Pretty amusing how liberals think like the Demjanjuk prosecutors.
Absurd, we’re supposed to think that even though Trump Barry had no idea she was being taped, she just suddenly took leave of her senses and made-up a family legend? Where is the logic there?
1. In the course of the conversation, she claimed she did his homework. She’s attending college outside of Springfield, Massachusetts from 1954 to 1958 and he’s enrolled at a boarding school from 1959 to 1964. She’s doing what, his carrying-and-borrowing problem sets from 2d grade?
2. She names someone she ‘believes’ took his college boards for him, and it’s someone he knew at Penn ca. 1967 that there’s no reason to believe he knew in 1962 and 1963 when he’d actually be sitting for these examinations.
3. She goes on about driving him around to college campuses, as if she was selling him to admissions officers. It didn’t work that way.
This woman isn’t telling you what happened. She’s telling you how she felt about her brother.
Absurd- Good point. She is mostly venting some visceral family hatred and, like Commit here, will say anything to slander him. I wouldn’t be surprised if she had a little Trump doll with pins stuck in its eyes to help her sleep at night.
Of course! And her charges are all so out character for the Donald Trump we all know. “Liar, stupid, makes thing up, cruel, braggart…”! Hellloooo, That’s just crazy talk.
Comments such as were made even occur from family members that like one another. There is a lot of emotion built into family relationships that Needs to be Committed (if she takes the words literally) doesn’t understand. She sounds like one with a difficult upbringing or has been spurned too many times. She thinks her comments are a good way to make up for her own inadequacies.
Any lawyer who has been involved in a family estate battle is familiar with the venomous feelings that poison the veracity of every utterance in family disputes. Divorce is sometimes the same. This looks like typical pi***d off kin who feels cheated and wants to get her own back.
As to Allan’s other point, I don’t find it difficult to imagine Commit being spurned during her upbringing. The question is whether she was twisted by being spurned or spurned because she was twisted. But I don’t care which.
Trump’s letting this one slide because for him now, no news is good news. Sleeping with a porn star after his wife gave birth, messing around on the side with a Playboy model, paying them off, lying about his wealth to banks, his palsy admiration with Putin and the now confirmed by Republican and Democrat Senators that the Trump campaign welcomed Russian intervention in the 2016 election with open arms, etc, etc, etc. Trump has an answer for everything, so why not tweet back on these issues? Because for Trump, the less said the better. ‘Don’t pay any attention to that man behind the curtain.’
“It is a truly rotten thing to do to a family member”
It’s not nearly as rotten as Donald, Maryanne, and Robert Trump kicking their grand-nephew William (son of Mary’s brother, Fred Trump III) off the family health insurance coverage, after William was born with a rare seizure disorder.
“Mary seems to show the same consequentialism or relative morality that she ascribes to her uncle”
Mary Trump’s actions aren’t nearly as bad as Donald Trump’s. And if you’re going to focus on the family’s consequentialism and moral relativism, don’t forget the behavior of Maryanne Trump Barry, Robert Trump, Don Jr., Eric, and Ivanka.
If Maryanne Trump Barry cared about the country, she’d have said all of this publicly when Donald was first running for President. Surely any ethical person would agree that someone for whom the following is true would make a horrendous president: “He has no principles. None. None. …. The lack of preparation. The lying. … It’s the phoniness of it all. It’s the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel.” She could and should have spoken out before her brother was elected.
“As noted earlier, the problem with this account is that Shapiro, who died of cancer in 1999, met Trump at the University of Pennsylvania, at least according to his family.”
As you note, Mr. Turley, there’s more than one person named Joe Shapiro, and if you were paying attention, you’d know that Mary Trump had already stated that it was a different Joe Shapiro than the one you’ve focused on.
“President Trump could sue.”
That would be great! Let him be deposed under oath.
” Surely any ethical person would agree that someone for whom the following is true would make a horrendous president:”
What do you know about ethics? Nothing, … and now you are trying to tell others what is or what is not ethical? Rubbish. What follows regarding principles etc. is what is in your mind. You have no principles. You would not make a good leader.
On the other hand Trump has demonstrated principled leadership and has done remarkable work, Consider the recent peace treaty in the Middle East, the withdrawal of troops, an economy that flourished and is starting to flourish again, law and order, illegal immigration and all the other things the democrats refuse to discuss.
“As you note, Mr. Turley, there’s more than one person named Joe Shapiro, and if you were paying attention, you’d know that Mary Trump had already stated that it was a different Joe Shapiro than the one you’ve focused on.”
Was there another Joe Shapiro that was found who could fit in? No. If all the Joe Shapiro’s were eliminated the next step for Needs to be Committed would be to say that maybe the spelling was off, Check Joe Smith. There is no way to change the mindset of a person whose mindset is welded shut.
So why didn’t Ms. Trump notify the Dean of the Wharton School and the Director of the SAT as soon as she learned of the violations?
There is nothing like taking family gossip in private and then the other person uses what was said in a tell-all book. Now in my family that would be interesting because for certain major events we all have different takes on it. So, who’s take goes in the book.
At this point, I am going with 1. it would be odd to take the SAT in your sophomore year, he would have had to take it to get into college just like the rest of us. 2. Shapio’s wife says they did not met until college. 3, Nobody has Mary Trump on their Xmas card list. 4, Barry might be off Xmas card lists as well if she doesn’t make some fast calls.
“it would be odd to take the SAT in your sophomore ”
Not necessarily, given that he was trying to transfer to a better university, his grades weren’t great, and his initial SAT scores apparently weren’t great. When I was a freshman, I decided that I wasn’t happy at the college I first went to, and I transferred to an Ivy League university in my sophomore year. If my SAT scores hadn’t already been excellent, I might have taken the tests again to improve my scores for the transfer application.
“Shapio’s wife says they did not met until college”
“Mary Trump specifically pushed back on speculation that the Joe Shapiro mentioned in her book was the late president’s friend and husband of ESPN tennis analyst Pam Shriver, who denied he took the SAT exam for the president. ‘It was not the Joe Shapiro that people have been focusing on,’ Mary Trump said, adding that she felt bad about Shriver being boosted into the spotlight by the controversy. ‘I feel terrible that she’s been subjected to this. Honestly, I wish I could’ve said something sooner.'”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mary-trump-there-is-another-joe-shapiro-who-took-the-presidents-sat-exam
Will the real Shapiro please stand up? This is called backing-and-hoeing.
Again, it’s a reasonable inference that she has the kind of mind which remembers moods better than she remembers events. DJT and Schapiro didn’t in 1963 live anywhere near each other and did not attend school together. It’s unlikely they were acquainted. She vaguely remembers him as a friend of her brother’s and has misplaced him in time.
Trump family candor…how delicious!
She surreptitiously recorded her aunt and then dumps the recording on the media coincident with her uncle’s funeral. I gather that’s how you do business in Denmark.
Olaf is a snowflake. He has grown into a full sized snowflake or snowman. (Frozen). He spreads empathy and likes warm hugs.
Well, he pretended he was appalled that my mother used corporal punishment.
Olaf says:August 23, 2020 at 8:21 AM
Trump family candor…how delicious!
__
Yep.
And as expected, the Turley-Twits have rallied to the defense of their buffoon-in-chief.