Republicans from Fox’s Brit Hume to GOP Rep. Adam Kinzinger(Ill.) have rushed to the defense Fox New reporter Jennifer Griffin, who was attacked by President Donald Trump for simply confirming aspects of the recent explosive story in The Atlantic. My column this weekend discussed the article alleging that Trump has spoken in disparaging terms of our veterans and war dead. Trump called for Griffin to be fired despite other news organizations also reporting that Trump has referred to veterans as “losers” and “suckers.” Trump seemed most upset by the fact that Griffin was saying that she “confirmed” the story when in fact she confirmed comments allegedly made about Vietnam veterans, not the specific alleged comment on war dead in France from World War I. That is a valid point, though likely lost on most citizens who correctly view such references to veterans of any war as vile and disgraceful. Moreover, it is outrageous for a president to call for a respected reporter to be fired for doing her job. Yet, what is most striking is how, again, Trump’s attacks only magnify the attention and damage of the story.
This latest controversy was triggered by an Atlantic article written by the magazine’s editor-in-chief, Jeffrey Goldberg. The article alleges damaging statements by Trump, such as dismissing the dead buried at Aisne-Marne American Cemetery as “losers” and “suckers.”
As many on this blog know, I am a military history nut and sometimes write in military history publications. Aisne-Marne is the resting place of some of our most inspiring heroes from the Battle of Belleau Wood. I will not detail the battle but it was one of the most defining struggles of the United States Marines, and the United States military generally in World War I.
Trump insisted that “Jennifer Griffin of Fox News Did Not Confirm ‘Most Salacious‘ Part of Atlantic Story breitbart.com/2020-election/ via @BreitbartNews All refuted by many witnesses. Jennifer Griffin should be fired for this kind of reporting. Never even called us for comment. @FoxNews is gone!”
His point appears to be that Griffin confirmed from other sources that Trump has made these offensive comments about Vietnam veterans (as have other journalists) but not that he referred to the Aisne-Marne dead as “losers” and “suckers.” She did confirm that Trump did not want to have the flags lowered for John McCain and other aspects of the story.
The failure to confirm the specific and “most salacious” allegation is significant. In fairness to Griffin, however. she makes it clear that she confirmed the statement on Vietnam veterans. The media took off on the “confirmation” story without making the distinction.
As noted in my column, a long list of officials and former officials, including the staunchly anti-Trump former National Security Adviser John Bolton, have denied the story on the comment regarding the World War I fallen. They were with him on this trip and in these meetings. Moreover, they have refuted that suggestion that Trump did not want to attend the ceremony out of concern for his hair (he in fact appeared as ceremonies on the trip in the rain).
Yet, for most Americans, this is like moving about the deck chairs on the Titanic. The confirmed aspects from the statement on Vietnam veterans to the McCain story are deeply disturbing and offensive.
Fox News has correctly rallied around Griffin as have figures on the left and right. This is not the type of unity that Trump should be striving to achieve in the country. Once again, President Trump’s personal attack has rendered his underlying point moot and irrelevant as Republicans and Democrats join in supporting Griffin.
Marine Major Who said I was dead. Send me the mortars and a thousand hand grenades.” It is a demand that no doubt would resonate with President Trump who seems to view the solution to any explosive political controversy as more explosives. However, Hamilton knew who the enemy was and his men knew the cause they were dying for. Hamilton was not asking them to die for him, but for a greater good. Many of those Marines are now buried at Aisne-Marne. That was an example of transcendent leadership that is tragically missing in this controversy.
When Trump didn’t want to drive over to that cemetery in the rain there was also a related discussion of why they weren’t buried back in America. The term “losers” refered to that. They had list a home burial site.
Keep things in context America!
liberty2nd. Hey man. Those “losers” fought and died there because they were protecting YOUR liberty and your 2nd amendment right to boot.
Your excuse is an absolute spit on their face.
They were buried there because they fought there. Their burial site is actual American territory you moron. They WERE buried in American territory. Bet you didn’t know that did you?
“ Located in the French commune of Colleville-sur-Mer, the Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial was the first-ever American cemetery to be established on European soil. France has granted the U.S. a concession to the land, meaning the cemetery is a U.S. territory within France.”
https://prometour.com/did-you-know-how-you-can-step-on-american-soil-while-in-france/
Pathetic, a real loser’s comment. Must be a Trump acolyte. If this is America, god help us.
She didn’t confirm anything. She’s another conduit for the same anonymous source.
She confirmed that her source – who she is vouching for – repeated the same or similar claims as did Goldberg’s. If she was Alex Jones or Trump , we could dismiss her as a liar. Her authority is based on her reputation which she has spent her career bolstering and proving, as has Goldberg. These are not one off celebrities who will trash their reputation for one story.
Relying on anonymous sources – who we believe, or not, to the extent we believe those who report it,- is the primary tool of journalists reporting on behind the scenes acts of the powerful and was how Watergate and many other stories broke. Attacking this method – as opposed to the more reasonable act of questioning the reputation of the reporter – is arguing for more secrets and more ignorant citizens. This is elementary. In this case, the method is proven and the journalists – 3 of them now – all reputable and from different employers.
The irony in this BS story is incredible in light of the problem that the Washington establishment (on both sides of the aisle) really has with Trump.
That being that he has refused to continue US empire building by engaging and escalating constant Middle eastern wars.
Rest assured that the mothers, fathers, wives, and children, of American soldiers are quite happy about that campaign promise being kept. Whereas the slimeball DC elites who personally profit from those wars, are not happy about that at all.
So I have to laugh at the neoliberal TDS/PTS sufferers here pretending to defend the troops because they think it helps them politically.
There is no empire building and the ‘constant wars’ consist of a counter-insurgency operation in Afghanistan that’s about the least lethal conflict we’ve been involved in in the last century.
Irrelevant – and inaccurate – dodge Rhodes, but we get your full in commitment to the Pig-in-Chief.
““refuted by many witnesses. Jennifer Griffin should be fired for this kind of reporting. Never even called us”
Anonymous sources without question are unreliable when used against an individual. Though I would have preferred President Trump not to involve himself in her job status, I think any reporter who uses anonymous sources and doesn’t call the individual to give the individual a chance to explain is not fit to be a reporter. I don’t care what side of the aisle they come from.
The details Griffen had were limited and might have been explained by information unavailable to her that could have been provided by the individual involved. What the reporter is worried about is getting the news out first and that is a problem because that lust to be first has corrupted the news on all sides.
If what you say is true then trump’s own anonymous sources for many of his claims can’t be true. Therefore making your defense of the president a defense of a liar. Your rationale.
Trump is a partisan not a news service that is supposed to be neutral. I note your icon changed. It seems you can’t keep anything straight whether it be your icon or your alias.
You need to restart school somewhere around 7 th grade because your understanding of civics and everything discussed is so abysmally ignorant.
Allan, the icon changes randomly. Yours changes too when you post often.
News services only show exactly what he says. When that happens. He accuses them of putting out fake news. Trump doesn’t want them to be neutral. He wants them to be loyal to his needs.
The icon is determined by email address. I only use two icons and neither has changed. Any change in icon or my name is due to error or temporary problems with WordPress. I try and make sure my identity is stable even noting it on the blog when something went wrong or a mistake was made (as soon as noted). That does not seem to be the case with you or PaintChips and PaintChips has been documented using many aliases and at times using aliases to slap himself on the back. He is most untrustworthy as is btb who has done the same.Your alias is highly suspect for good reasons. You sound quite similar to PaintChips in your level of debate, very low. There have been others that have some of the same similarities but that is not my problem, it is yours. You have the means to protect your alias but you don’t except perhaps when someone makes a fool of you using your alias.
“News services only show exactly what he says. When that happens. He accuses them of putting out fake news. Trump doesn’t want them to be neutral. He wants them to be loyal to his needs.”
Trump is a political figure so of course he wants good press.
If the press wants to be considered neutral they have to be neutral all the time even if their political opinions differ. If they can’t do that they are known appropriately as Fake News.
I have learned to distrust almost all news though some news is a lot better than others. Opinion should be labelled as such and if a news source doesn’t do so they lose my respect. I have no faith in the NYT, WP, CNN etc. They are blatantly political. I do not trust anonymous sources. When one doesn’t have critical thinking skills they are at a distinct disadvantage.
McCain was far worse than a “loser”, he was a traitor to his fellow POW’s & MIA’s in Vietnam.
Once he became a Senator he used his power and influence to cover up that fact by killing “The Truth Bill”, and replacing it with “The McCain Bill”, in order to cover up the fact that McCain made himself very useful to the North Vietnamese while he was a POW in order to gain special treatment.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/
Jonathan, your use of the word Heroes is BS, and diminishes the actions of the true Heroes.
My Uncle was a Marine for 24 years. He fought in WWII, Korea (2 tours), and Vietnam (2 tours), and was awarded the Silver Star for Valor for his actions in the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir in Korea. Later towards the end of his tenure in the Marine Corp he also was awarded the Silver Star for Service.
When I was a teenager I asked him if he “ever knew any Heroes”. He chuckled and said; “The only Heroes I’ve ever known are dead”. So I asked him to explain, and he told me that; “A Hero is someone who gives his life in order to save his brothers. Everyone else was just fighting like hell to stay alive”.
So stop defiling the memories of real Heroes by calling every soldier who fought in a war a “Hero”.
As to the hit piece in The Atlantic. Glenn Greenwald’s article covers that quite well.
https://theintercept.com/2020/09/05/journalisms-new-propaganda-tool-using-confirmed-to-mean-its-opposite/
“journalism is not supposed to be grounded in whether something is “believable” or “seems like it could be true.” Its core purpose, the only thing that really makes it matter or have worth, is reporting what is true, or at least what evidence reveals. And that function is completely subverted when news outlets claim that they “confirmed” a previous report when they did nothing more than just talked to the same people who anonymously whispered the same things to them as were whispered to the original outlet.”
“the absolute last person who should be trusted with anything, particularly interpreting claims from anonymous sources, is Jeffrey Goldberg, who has risen to one of the most important perches in journalism despite (or, more accurately because of) one of the most disgraceful and damaging records of spreading disinformation in service of the Pentagon and intelligence community’s agenda”
Goldberg is a self-serving slimeball propagandist for the intel community who is as trustworthy as a used car salesman.
Rhodes, you’re twisted view of history only serves to justify trump’s denigration. It only confirms that you and Trump have no respect for those who serve our country. Only when it benefits you do you deem them worthy of the praise.
Trump never served because he didn’t think sacrificing for his country was important. He thought his money and self importance was more valuable.
“Trump never served because he didn’t think sacrificing for his country was important. He thought his money and self importance was more valuable.”
Svelaz, that is an unsupported conclusion that doesn’t deserve to be part of an intelligent discussion. Then again you don’t act as an intelligent advocate for one side or another.
Allan, actually it’s quite supportable. His pattern of denigrating the military is plenty of evidence.
No it isn’t. Trump’s actions prove his words and he has many people that will vouch for that.
We even have good evidence that what I say is true. The left has concoted a story and stands by it strongly just like you are doing. That means that the left feels this old but new story is at the top of the list for evidence, but it has been debunked even by Bolton who hates Trump. That debunking occurred prior to this claim by the left.
All this demonstrates is that the left’s positions are very weak since they are now thowing proven garbage instead of meaningful poilcy.
You lack critical thinking skills so you make a fool out of yourself one post after the other.
Allan, you lack critical thinking skills so you make a fool out of yourself one post after the other.
Svelaz, specifically what is my “twisted view of history”?
If you are incapable of elaborating on a statement like that, then you shouldn’t comment.
Here’s some history.
Obama and Clinton destroyed Libya for no other reason than Ghaddafi was introducing a new gold backed African reserve currency to compete against the French franc.
The mission was accomplished. Ghaddafi is dead, Libya is the world slave market, Libya and Ghaddafi’s gold has disappeared, Hillary hangs out with the Rothschild’s and Obama owns a $14.5 million dollar beach house in Martha’s Vineyard.
Obama promised repeatedly to end the US involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. 8 years later when he left office, the US was still in Iraq and Afghanistan.
One hell of a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
So Trump wins the 2016 election. Ever since he has lived up to his promise to stop US empire building in the Middle East, and is bringing US troops home from the never ending Middle Eastern wars that the Rothschild’s love because war is the most profitable business on earth, and they have made Trillion$ off of wars over the past 150 years.
You know nothing worth knowing.
while he was a POW in order to gain special treatment.
He was unable to raise his arms above level with his shoulders. That’s some special treatment.
It was said that his crash and bodily injury was one of the worst that survived.
I think he was injured when he ejected. He wasn’t in the crash.
I think the statement was made by the Vietnamese doctor Trun (?sp) who said that his most important job was to keep him alive as they felt his family history made him valuable.
You are correct, however, he was ejected. I mispoke and would have edited my comment had there been an edit feature.
My understanding is that he did not follow ejection procedure properly which is how his arms got broken.
I heard that too but wasn’t sure enough to include it in my comment. My cousin ejected from an F4 Phantom and got out without breaking anything. He said it was strange to feel the seat wobble back and forth as the rocket pushed him away from the plane. The gyros were keeping it on course and he was feeling the adjustments. Maybe McCain panicked at some point and got his arms in the way of part of the plane as he launched. Don’t really know. But he was a swine.
I had read (I don’t know for sure what is true or not) that he didn’t follow a lot of procedures and one caused a fire on a plane on the landing strip.
I think he screwed up and set fire to an aircraft carrier, the Forrestal if I remember correctly, and cost the lives of several sailors.
That sounds better though it had something to do with a plane he had control of???. My memory fails when it comes to John McCain and Vietnam.
All I try to remember is he was a doofus with two admirals in his family. A lot of people died in that war that deserved the status of hero far more than he.
Why did he kill The Truth Bill?
His fellow POW’s called him the “Songbird”, because he gave the North Vietnamese anything they wanted.
He was a fvcking traitor.
And yet you back a piece of excrement who paid a doctor to get him out of getting drafted, by using ‘bone spurs’. WOW, add all the other disgusting, disgraceful, shameful, and stupid things Trump says and you are backing the exact opposite of a hero, a poltroon, traitor, coward, liar, filth.
Bill Clinton dodged the draft as well.
How many wars have you fought in, isaac?
Virtually every single man who was drafted during the Vietnam War would have dodged the draft if given the opportunity. It is a myth that the only ones who managed to do so were from well to do families.
As usual, you’re completely ignorant to the reality.
Rhodes– Thanks for that bit of family history and commentary. It’s a reset to restore sanity.
Health news you can use: As a public safety measure during the pandemic, public health officials are now recommending the use of glory holes to limit the spread of COVID-19 during casual sex.
———————————————
Or, as reported in Slate, the pandemic is leading to an unlikely sexual renaissance.
‘But in a twist worthy of 2020, glory holes are finding new life in the pandemic, and they have received support from an unlikely corner: public health officials, who have mostly urged people to stay home. In several regions, health departments worried about high-risk hookups during the coronavirus have alluded to—or outright recommended—glory holes as a safer venue for casual sex.
The Canadian B.C. Centre for Disease Control, the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, and others have recommended, in one way or another, the use of glory holes for sex. In New York, the city’s official COVID-19 safer sex bulletin didn’t mention glory holes directly, but it advised residents to “make it a little kinky” and “be creative with sexual positions and physical barriers, like walls.”
Michael Lanza, a spokesman for the NYC health department, explained that the goal was harm reduction. “The key here is to limit face-to-face contact, as the virus that causes COVID-19 is spread primarily through droplets,” he said. He emphasized that leading a safe sex life is vital to the mental well-being of many people in New York, so the advice was merely practical.’
https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/09/glory-holes-pandemic-rise.html
Despite the few who volunteered ( ” My Country, Right or Wrong ” ), the majority of the cannon fodder shipped to Viet Nam were those not clever enough to avoid the draft by staying in school, getting married, having children, obtaining medical deferment ( wink-wink, nudge-nudge ), or just by the good fortune to having been born into a politically powerful family. Public opinion concerning our misguided involvement in SE Asia quickly soured when scenes of the slaughter were broadcast into their living rooms during dinner time or otherwise the 6PM Network News.
So yes, there were tens of thousands of ‘ losers ‘ caught up in Lyndon Johnson’s ego-trip/adventure in support of a corrupt government, disguised as the ‘ Domino Theory ‘ of Communist takeover of SE Asia. Truly sad.
Despite the few who volunteered ( ” My Country, Right or Wrong ” ), the majority of the cannon fodder shipped to Viet Nam were those not clever enough to avoid the draft by staying in school, getting married, having children, obtaining medical deferment ( wink-wink, nudge-nudge ), or just by the good fortune to having been born into a politically powerful family.
During the period running from the beginning of 1965 to the end of 1970, the sum of 1st enlistments into the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps averaged about 475,000 per annum. The typical male cohort of prime military age numbered about 1.9 million at the time, so about 25% were enlisting. Conscriptions were running at about 267,000 per year on average, accounting for about 15% of each cohort. An additional increment was at that time enlisting in the Reserves, enlisting in the National Guard, or enlisting in the Coast Guard. NB, about 29% of those who entered de novo during those years voluntarily re-enlisted when their first hitch was complete. About 24% were disqualified on examination (failed the physical or the psychometric examination &c). About 30% did not serve for other reasons.
It was the usual practice among men attending college during the period running from 1948 to 1964 to enlist in the military after you’d completed your degree, though some, like my father, attended college on either side of time in the service. Attending college delayed your entry into the service. Unless you were in the odd minority which received a graduate school deferment (which were not granted at all after 1967) or the odder minority who received a ministerial exception, it did not excuse you from military service entirely. NB, during the period running from 1948 to the end of 1969, those who had yet to serve and not deferred or disqualified were called in for examination in birth order. The closer you were to your 26th birthday, the more likely you were to be called in. It was absolutely standard for college graduates to enlist upon receiving their diploma. (Bernie Sanders hired a lawyer to press a bogus claim for conscientious objector status after he lost his graduate school deferment, but that was unusual).
One should note that 55% of those born during the years running from 1930 to 1938 were in the active duty military at some point and another 9% were in the Guard or Reserves. The median age at first marriage for men of those cohorts was about 23.0 years and they’re the most fecund of any set of cohorts who have living members at this time. For all that they married young, they entered the service before getting married and procreating.
The rate at which people were disqualified for service during the VietNam War (about 24%) differed little from the rate observed during the period running from 1948 to 1964. James Fallows may fancy the games he played with Selective Service were normal; they weren’t. The military made special provisions for Albert Gore Jr during his brief tour in VietNam, but there’s emerged no evidence that either Gore requested it or even knew that these provisions had been made. The notion that Dan Quayle pulled strings to land a berth in the Indiana National Guard was debunked nearly 30 years ago (by The Washington Post, btw, even though their in-house columnist Richard Cohen had promoted the notion). The notion that George W Bush did so has also been debunked. It is known that Rudolph Giuliani pulled strings and there’s a reasonable inference that Mitch McConnell did as well. Neither was born into a family with money or influence. One worked for a judge and another for a member of Congress.
Being a snide ignoramus is no way to go through life, son.
There is a phrase in the military, especially in the infantry and particularly in 2-22 Triple Deuce that says: Facta non Verba – Deeds not Words. Let us judge this incident with the perspective of the military itself.
I’m going to give this President a pass on what is an endless attack against him. For 3 years I heard Spartacus come back from the dead and scream Russia Russia Russia, I’ve seen a attempt by bureaucrats to overturn a legitimate election and still no one punished, the list goes on and on. So now an alleged nothing burger remark means nothing to me. As much as John McCain was a brother VietVet, I think he helped launch the Russia fiasco and no one talks about that. So enjoy your Labor Day weekend and don’t labor so much on this article. God Bless All.
Give me one name, just one, of any of these “former senior officials” and I’ll give some thought to deciding whether any of this is credible.
In the meantime I’ll just this story like just what it is–a camp rumor.
This stuff is more than consistent with recorded words out of Trump’s fish mouth. Trump is on film making fun of disabled people, boasting about grabbing p#&^ and getting away with it, calling McCain down because he got shot down, etc. The list goes on and on. So, saying Trump never said any of this stuff is tantamount to defending a lying, piece of excrement poltroon, traitor, disgrace. This is your champion? WOW.
Verbally attacked by the president not really so bad. In many countries she would simply just disappear. Problem solved.
Trump was referring to McCain’s loss to Obama. He loves the military and vice versa. All these allegations were thrown around before. Just Democratic dirt! George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Bill Clinton,Joe Biden and several other prominent politicians did not serve in Vietnam. Which after all was one of these Democratic wars cost 66k plus American lives for what? It was a stupid war!. Plus whether Jennifer Griffen whom I respect or others it was taken as God’s gospel truth . The sources did not have the guts to to let her use their names. We know the Federal Govt. has lots of TDS sufferers plus even the military that spend their time undermining the Presidency such as Sally Yates until she was shown the door!
Anonymous, no. Trump was referring to McCain being caught in Vietnam when he called him a loser. It’s on the record Trump stating specifically why he thinks McCain was a loser.
Though the complete quote has been posted on this blog many times Svelaz refuses to take note because he prefers to make up stories that do not exist. I might have explained that to Svelaz on a recent thread but he doesn’t care about the truth. He chooses not to be a credible poster.
Elsewhere in the responses are Trump’s exact words or you can look them up yourself. Trump rightfully stated that McCain was the loser in his election bid.
I don’t expect Svelaz to learn the truth , but I think this one example repeated over and over again demonstrates that Svelaz is not credible.
McCain turned on the US when he was a POW by recording a video denouncing America. The video might still be available online. I have watched it a few times. Other prisoners were abused but did not cooperate with their captors. They did not think much of McCain. More of a Bergdahl than an Audie Murphy I think.
Young I searched for the recording and found a transcript and recording. Supposedly it was obtained from the National Archives. Some might want to explain it and some might want to deny it being real. I make no comment.
The transcript is at; https://www.trunews.com/article/john-mccains-1969-tokyo-rose-propaganda-recording-released with the ability to click to the audible that starts at 17:44 (raw audible) (enhanced 30:50). Shortly afterwards there is some discussion of how the recording was obtained and other comments attributed to John McCain.
At https://www.trunews.com/article/john-mccains-1969-tokyo-rose-propaganda-recording-released is a video of Viet Vets.
He was the son and grandson of admirals. I think he was spoiled and not a serious person at least in his youth. I never liked his politics and found him somewhat duplicitous. Why all the records weren’t released years ago is beyond belief. Maybe if this information was released we would have been less likely to enter the wars we did. John McCain was responsible for not permitting the release of information involving other captured Vietnam Veterens.
Trump is fantastic. He is quieting areas of the world without the use of military force and so far has been withdrawing troops. Anyone who is not part of the Marxist left or a warmonger ought to be switching their allegience to this President. Why should our country have the burden of paying in lives and treasure for the foolishness of other nations when there is no existential threat?
Trump was referring to McCain’s actions when he called him a “loser.” McCain SURRENDERED, although whether or not he still had the means to resist since he had been injured during ejection is debatable.
He didn’t surrender. He had no opportunity to escape and evade with broken arms. But I think he betrayed his country with those recordings.
The left has long seen McCain as a cowardly warmonger. The left has always been against using soldiers as suckers in misbegotten wars. So why are they not now supporting Trump’s defense against these bogus – but historically defensible disparagements?
There is a FOIA from the NAVY showing the weather conditions, you have 11 people on the record saying it didn’t happen and four unnamed sources saying it did. And John McCain is a loser.
Do you really think that weather was too much to handle for President Trump? The other world leaders didn’t have issues with the weather. Soldiers don’t postpone fighting because it is raining.
The excuse is just that, a pathetic excuse. Even German chancellor Angela Merkle has no trouble paying her respects.
Svelaz, you are an idiot. One doesn’t take a helicopter trip when visibility is too low unless it is absolutely necessary. You think the President of the US should have risked his life on a non essential trip. You are an idiot.
Allan, all world leaders DROVE there. The world’s best equipped helicopters with the best pilots couldn’t do it?
Trump had multiple options just as other world leaders did. You’re essentially saying trump the supposed leader of the free world couldn’t attend a ceremony because of bad weather when other world leaders could. You’re saying Trump is too timid to face a bit of rain.
Trump, the same guy who says we have the best of everything couldn’t get to an important ceremony because of …rain.
Allan, you must think other countries are far more capable than out own if they can easily transport their leaders thru “inclement weather”.
Visibility too low? Hey we got FLIR. you know the very same technology we put on military aircraft to see thru clouds. GASP! Jesus Allan you’re a complete moron.
Read the documents that were in the video.
What world leaders went there and where did they travel from and when. We had others go by vehicular transpost but for security reasons Trump was asked not to go.
Based on the knowledge available to us I would recommend he not go. It was an important event but not important enough to risk the life of POTUS or important enough to close a city down during transport. You hang your hat on a trivial issue of little meaning because you are a trivial guy with trivial information. You make accusations and draw conclusions without first finding out the facts. I did. You didn’t. That makes you the idiot and also a liar.
Trump has demonstrated his strong positive feelings towards the military and the legislation he has had passed for them was in part fought against by Democrats.
Allan, “trump was asked not to go”? Nobody “asks” the president not to go. This was a scheduled event meaning every security precaution was considered including the weather. It was an event that other world leaders facing the same security issues went to without a problem.
No president would be asked not to go, especially when it’s a scheduled event that was planned long before any security issues pop up. Your excuses are just that, pure BS excuses.
Trump has strong feelings towards the military as long as they serve his image. Anything below that he sees them as nothing more than decoration.
You say it was security reasons, the pentagon says bad weather. Yet despite both BS reasons other world leaders had no issues going.
Allan, you didn’t post links to your evidence or quote directly from it.
You’re bouncing around from weather abs security when both issues were not a problem for other world leaders. Trump was with allies. You’re simply making BS excuses for a pathological liar Allan.
You want us to believe that our own military couldn’t guarantee our president’s security in allied territory based on a long scheduled event? You’re effectively pointing out that the world’s best military can’t handle some weather and security issues that other country’s military could do for their own leaders. Based on that maybe you should start advocating for defunding the military because all that technology is practically useless when our own military can’t handle a trip to a cemetery that honors their own. Be glad those buried there gave their lives so you could enjoy your ignorance and liberty to defend an individual who would have no trouble desecrating their resting grounds with golf course.
“Allan, you didn’t post links to your evidence or quote directly from it.”
You don’t know how to read. Both major links were provided. One was a video with quotes and copies of documents. The other had loads of quotes.
I can’t help it if you are unable to think and have to make things up when the facts are available. It is virutally impossible to deal with your kind of stupidity.
By the way those that are there to protect the President tell him what needs to be done all the time. You saw an example during a news conference when gun shots were heard during the press briefing. The Secret Service Agents came in and told him to leave. He didn’t stand there assessing the problem. He did what they thought should immediately be done.
Svelaz, you are an idiot. One doesn’t take a helicopter trip when visibility is too low unless it is absolutely necessary.
Agreed. Just ask Kobe Bryant
The rest of the story is this….The weather was too bad for a helicopter flight to the location. In order to go by ground would have caused a nightmare for the French authorities and people as it would have been a two hour trip by ground. Imagine the impact of all of the security precautions that would have required. But please….do not let the facts or truth get in the way of your opinions.
By the way….I have been both a helicopter pilot in the military and civilian world….and did Protective Services Details as a Federal Special Agent.
Ralph, Svalez’s credentials are more important to those on the left. Svelaz has always been and is a Dork.
Other world leaders had no problem driving there. There’s a reason why these people PREPARE for every contingency, including weather. It’s a poor excuse when other world leaders had no problem getting there.
If trump wanted to get there by helicopter the military would have made every effort to make it happen. The man clearly didn’t think it was worth the effort to honor the fallen despite the fact that other world leaders clearly thought otherwise.
No disrespect to Jennifer Griffin, but her story was a mess and has all the hallmarks a flailing scramble to match a competitor while adding absolutely nothing to the sum of knowledge. I blame Fox News for that more than her.
Fox claims to be a news organization, yet it has only a handful of reporters and only a couple of offices outside the US. It pretends to cover the world from London and Jerusalem. It tries to cover the homeland from Washington and New York mostly, making them just as mono-focused and deficient as every other news outfit.
Reporters like Griffin are ‘performers’ more than journalists who turn up on every Fox News show and freely opine about everything, destroying their credibility. They rarely break a story, but instead follow the pack on whatever the pack decides is the news of the day. A real news organization would MAKE the news of the day, not follow others. The frequency that program hosts and anchors turn up as opinionators on each other’s shows is simply ridiculous and only underscores how thinly-resourced they are.
News Corp makes a hell of a lot of money from Fox News selling pillows, senior’s aides, ED cures, and other junk but they are loathe to invest anything in making their boring news product any better. The Murdochs must think Americans are getting he center-right news coverage that they deserve.
You say that transcendent leadership is missing in THIS controversy as though this is a rare exception!! It is not in my opinion but just continued confirmation of the disastrous Presidency we are dealing with
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I am surprised to not hear you weigh-in on the recent Gen Flynn developments.
“ Fox News has correctly rallied around Griffin as have figures on the left and right. This is not the type of unity that Trump should be striving to achieve in the country.”
This is NOT the type of unity that trump should strive to achieve? Is Turley actually saying trump’s divisiveness is…better?
CTHD pointed out that Bolton didn’t refute what trump said. Only that Bolton confirms he wouldn’t be surprised if trump did disparage the dead vets in France.
Trump wants Griffin fired because it’s Fox News, the Network that he relies on the most to spread his lying. Having Fox News confirm what he allegedly said and his subsequent anger only makes the allegations more true than not. Trump sees the military as his own personal army and he only praises them when it benefits him personally. Then there’s the fact that he’s a massive narcissist who can’t have anything upstage him, even dead war veterans. This is a draft dodger disparaging military veterans for their sacrifice. A rich spoon fed brat who didn’t think he should fight for his country because he had better things to do like pose for pictures at the playboy mansion. Let that sink in real good folks.
“CTHD pointed out that Bolton didn’t refute what trump said. Only that Bolton confirms he wouldn’t be surprised if trump did disparage the dead vets in France.”
There is a known quote on the exact subject from Bolton, but this turkey Svelaz prefers to obtain facts from those with low credibility.
Allan, post the whole quote. You keep saying there’s this quote. Show us this quote you’re talking about.
I’ve already quoted them along with the sources. You don’t pay attention to anything that doesn’t provide confirmation of what you wish to believe. Continue doing so. There is no need for you to further prove your stupidity.
He won’t unless the case makes trump look good and gives Turley a reason to point out trump is being “unfairly” criticized.
The appeals court decision to overturn the three judge panel forces Turley to acknowledge he was not being intellectually honest with the facts of the case. Now with Sullivan able to force the DOJ to explain in detail why they dropped the charges Turley may be forced to concede he was wrong. Thus damaging his credibility and constant defense of trump.
Your article totally misses the point of the controversy, at least from a journalistic integrity standpoint. “Circling the journalistic wagons” is exactly the opposite of what real journalists would or should do. You should be questioning the journalistic ethics and standards both of Jeff Goldberg, and of Griffin, and anyone else who claims to have “confirmed” the Atlantic story through undisclosed, anonymous sources. There’s nothing either in the story itself, or in the “confirmations,” that provides any evidence that the information is reliable–even aside from the identities of the informants. There’s no indication that the journalists involved were given access to anything such as 1) contemporaneous (i.e. provably made two years ago, at the time of the alleged events) texts; calenders; diaries; notes; e-mails. 2) No explanation of why all the alleged “informants” need to remain anonymous–indeed, neither Goldberg or Griffin even quoted any of the sources as to the basis justifying their anonymity. Etc. Protecting your journalistic friends against criticism of their methods isn’t “journalism.” It’s “cronyism.”
Hard to hear that your favorite President as he calls it would actually say these things. Sympathy
The pattern fits previous disparaging comments Trump has said of veterans. From general Kelly’s book to Trump’s own disparaging tweets.
Trump himself cites anonymous sources all the time when he constantly says, “other people have said”, or “many people”, or “ others say”. When making accusations and false claims. He’s upset because he knows he can’t defend against such accusations that he uses himself against others. He’s upset because he knows they’re effective.
News reports are different than statements made by individuals. News is supposed to be non partisan. Individuals are not. Are you too dull-witted to recognize that?
Allan, “ News is supposed to be non partisan.“
Nothing says they are supposed to be non partisan. Fox News isn’t, CNN, MSNBC aren’t either.
Statements made by individuals that are reported exactly as they were said are not partisan. That’s why trump’s tweets and comments are just repeated verbatim. If a news organization is just repeating what the president says it’s no n partisan, but if it’s a left leaning news network it’s somehow partisan.
“Nothing says they are supposed to be non partisan.”
That is the type of news media you listen to. Partisan news media leads to an ignorant electorate. You fit in fine.
Fox is far closer to neutrality than CNN and MSNBC. Much of Fox is Opinion and doesn’t pretend to be news, but even the opinions on Fox state the facts more accurately than CNN and MSNBC on their so called pure news shows.
I won’t defend any news media but I will defend opinion writers whose opinions might differ but are consistent and use reasonalby accurate facts. Some of my favorite people were on the left, but they had principles something you lack entirely.
Allen, cable news in general is just screaming heads. One can do better by simply avoiding cable.
Svelaz. You are a perfect example of what Stalin called a “useful idiot”.
You’re begging the question by claiming that they’re “circling the wagons.” Good journalists are supposed to investigate the veracity of claims. If their sources contradict the claims, they should say so, and if their sources confirm the claims, they should say so.
And if you object to use of unnamed sources, tell Trump you object, because the WH uses them all the time.
I don’t think “begging the question” means what you think it means. It is a poorly named logical fallacy.
Perhaps you don’t understand the fallacy of begging the question well enough, or you’d recognize that it does mean what I think it means.
For those interested in what “confirmed” means to journalists these days, it is worth consulting Glenn Greenwald’s recent observations.
https://theintercept.com/2020/09/05/journalisms-new-propaganda-tool-using-confirmed-to-mean-its-opposite/
Anonymous, I was going to cite the same Greenwald piece. He’s no conservative and he calls out this whole “confirmation” nonsense permeating reporting these days.
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I’m a Navy veteran so have been following this story closely. It is important that it appears that Trump did not make any statement like that alleged regarding the WWI veterans buried in France. Four anonymous sources (apparently) alleged that he said it; five named sources who were present (apparently) said that he did not say anything like that, and the he cancelled the trip because of the weather. Secondly, it appears that he did refer to John McCain as a loser – not too surprising, because as Trump has stated that he and McCain did not get along, so the disparagement was probably mutual. (One could fairly make the argument that McCain was a loser, for being shot down and taken prisoner. I believe that before he was released, he made some statements in aid of the North Vietnamese, tho that is very seldom reported.) And then Trump is quoted as saying that Viet Nam was a “stupid war,” and that anyone those who went there to fight were “suckers.” I joined the Navy during the time we were in Viet Nam, but I basically felt the same, that it was a poorly thought-out war, and I didn’t want to serve there – nor did I have to, as it turned out. The point is, imho, from what I can see Trump is being misquoted in the hope that this will hurt him with veterans – yet the alleged statements really should be parsed more carefully than they have been. I am not a fan of Trump’s but I think this story is another example of the demonstration of Trump Derangement Syndrome and that the media should be far more careful in how they research and analyse the story. I also think that Trump is more to be applauded for bringing fighting forces back home, rather than being criticized for something he may have said off the record, especially as I would bet that there will be several more such stories breaking before Election Day.
In the 2015 video of Trump, in which he calls McCain a “loser,” he specifically does so not in reference to his military service record; but rather, in reference to McCain’s being a “loser” to Obama in the 2008 Presidential election. It speaks volumes concerning “journalism” in today’s day and age that the President’s entirely accurate characterization of McCain as a “loser” in 2008 to Obama is deemed worthy of such opprobrium.
I thought that was the case, but I didn’t want to say so, since I thought my recollection might be faulty.
You bring up some good points. The more that (still) comes out regarding the Vietnam war, the more we realize there was much about the war that made little sense. For example, Daniel Ellsberg’s 2005 Secrets book gets into much of the issues that surrounded the decision making and conduct of the war. Many men who served had no choice because of the draft.
The issue with Trump’s use of words like “suckers” is that he’s so limited in his vocabulary that he frequently uses the wrong words or doesn’t expound on what exactly he means with his words, especially when tweeting with limited spaces. Many Vietnam vets (and I’m married to one) know that the war was poorly thought out, as you state, and weren’t able to get out of serving or chose to serve even though they didn’t have to. What’s unfortunate, if true, is if Trump doesn’t seem to comprehend the concept of wanting to serve a greater purpose at little to no benefit to oneself, and yet I believe that he has great love of our country himself and is putting up with extreme opposition and conniving that would overwhelm the average Joe so that his drive right now isn’t much different from those who chose to serve in the war. If this part of Griffin’s reporting is true, then Trump seems to be unskilled in seeing one situation or certain circumstances as being applicable to others–a considerable blind spot.
FWIW, I have seen up close the ignorance of people who have no concept or understanding of what’s involved in serving in the military and the motivation, sacrifices, chain of command, and other aspects that are part of that service. My own brother, for example, couldn’t understand why my 90-year-old father, a WWII vet, chose to be buried in a veteran cemetery. My dad had never discussed the war with us when we were growing up, and my brother had no exposure to vets in his life. I had to explain to him why it was such an honor to be buried in the cemetery, something I never thought I’d have to do, because my brother was so dismissive of my dad’s decision and what being there meant to him. It’s possible (maybe even likely) that Trump, as well as many people today, are of the same cloth. But judging Trump’s actions, which are more important than ignorant or improper (if true) words, is what’s important in the long run. It’s very easy to say the “right” words while starving the military of required resources, which is what BO did, for example.
I am a Vietnam Veteran….did two tours flying helicopters and was wounded and returned home early due to wounds.
What I have to say about this latest exercise is simple.
You want to throw crap about the place and smear a President….any President….trot out your Sources….in public…in person….and prove your allegations.
Otherwise…..you are just being a trash mouthed gossip that deserves to have a public scolding like in the old days!
You have the dirt….spread it….but do it in a proper manner…..apply an equal standard to all of those in power.
Don’t tell us about your case….PROVE IT!
Even Jonathan Turley should understand that concept as that is his stock and trade in the Court Room.
Ralph Chappell, not sure if you intended to respond to me or to Turley’s post above, but if it was to me, I agree w/all you’ve said.
Ralph. smarten up. The biggest news stories are often broken by “sources” who rightly fear losing their job or if retired, becoming a public persona, and in the case of Trump’s followers, danger to themselves and their family. The valiidity we as readers give to these stories are based on the reputation of the reporters and the ability of others from different employers to confirm it. We have 3 reporters of excellent reputation so far confirming it. It’s up to us as citizens to believe it or not based on those variables. Clearly you don’t want to believe and won’t, even though a universal application of your argument would mean we should all be happy being kept in the dark by the powerful, because this is how important news – see Watergate for instance – is broken.
“You want to throw crap about the place and smear a President….any President….trot out your Sources….in public…in person….and prove your allegations.”
Do you object to Woodward and Bernstein having used an unnamed source in reporting on Nixon and Watergate?
I do object to Deep Throat since he was a disgruntled FBI employee.
“ The issue with Trump’s use of words like “suckers” is that he’s so limited in his vocabulary that he frequently uses the wrong words or doesn’t expound on what exactly he means with his words, especially when tweeting with limited spaces.“. In short he’s too stupid to think of anything better than a 5th grader’s response.
Svalaz, 5th grade is at least one or two grades above Michelle Obama’s thesis…. just saying…
“One could fairly make the argument that McCain was a loser, for being shot down and taken prisoner. I believe that before he was released, he made some statements in aid of the North Vietnamese, tho that is very seldom reported.) …”
Cut the crap jlt. No, one cannot “fairly” make that argument, and especially a draft dodging fancy man from 6th Ave.
Not an argument. He made recordings for enemy propaganda. Allan had links to the transcripts above. I have seen at least one of the videos online. It was disgusting. He would have gone to prison or at least had a dishonorable discharge if his father were not an admiral.
Book, for some reason you are often most wrong when you are most sure.
He would have gone to prison or at least had a dishonorable discharge if his father were not an admiral.
He wouldn’t have. Jeremiah Denton also made broadcasts and he wasn’t prosecuted after the war, because he’d been tortured and the military knew it.
BTB. How much combat time do you have in SE Asia?
You act as if you’re a decorated war veteran.